Epic Fail?

[vifferman]

I bought some beer today, including a really nice-looking one from a boutique brewery. When I cracked it and got around to perusing the label, I discovered it proudly proclaimed it was an "organic beer".
"Hmmm...." I thought, "that's an epic fail if ever there was one!"

Talk about laugh - I very nearly started.
It tasted OK though...

[98tls]

I bought some beer today, including a really nice-looking one from a boutique brewery. When I cracked it and got around to perusing the label, I discovered it proudly proclaimed it was an "organic beer".
"Hmmm...." I thought, "that's an epic fail if ever there was one!"

Talk about laugh - I very nearly started.
It tasted OK though... Why is it still in your mouth and can you stop nodding.

[vifferman]

Nah, it's in my tummy now - all 500ml of it.

Have you twigged yet what is wrong with having "organic" and "beer" in close proximity?

[scumdog]

Nah, it's in my tummy now - all 500ml of it.

Have you twigged yet what is wrong with having "organic" and "beer" in close proximity?

NOooo, are you trying to tell me it's not possible??

Oh my, I'm shattered!!:weep:

[vifferman]

NOooo, are you trying to tell me it's not possible??

Oh my, I'm shattered!!:weep:
It's perfectly possible - the empty in the recyclatron is evidence of that. However, it is kind of ironic. Or perhaps oxymoronic would be more correct.

[Hitcher]

Inorganic beer rocks.

[Usarka]

Inorganic beer rocks.

Where do the rocks come into it, and how are they inorganic? :wacko:

[vifferman]

I expected you'd show up sooner or later, Dr Hitcher.
I'm not sure if I would've bought the "organic beer" if I'd read the label.
Maybe I would have - the price wasn't the normal inflated nonsense organicists charge for their (usually substandard) produce.

[vifferman]

Where do the rocks come into it, and how are they inorganic? :wacko:
They're not made of organs.
Apart from kidney stones, of course.

[Fatt Max]

They're not made of organs.
Apart from kidney stones, of course.

Very good point sir,

Mind you, the penis is an organ and we all like to drink piss so that figures I suppose.

Silly , eh!:doh:

[Ixion]

Inorganic beer rocks.

No it doesn't it's weak as water. Whatr Adam saw in it I'll never know.

[vifferman]

Hmmmm...
No-one's yet commented on the epic fail, oxymoronic thing yet.
Maybe it's just me...

[Lucy]

Hmmmm...
No-one's yet commented on the epic fail, oxymoronic thing yet.
Maybe it's just me...

I thought you meant the fail was that it didn't scream organic, and you didn't notice until you read the label closely. Nothing ironic about organic beer, they just make it with organic hops barley etc and don't put shitloads of chemicals in it. People have been brewing beer since ages ago.

Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy!

Why not be healthy at the same time?

[McJim]

Organic means "Contains Carbon" or relates to organisms. It is impossible to make beer without yeast (organisms) therefore all beer (and fermented products) are, by definition organic.

So I don't get the oxymoronic nature of your comment. 'organic beer' is like 'wet water', 'frozen snow', 'gritty sand' and nice motorcycles.

But an oxymoron combines two opposites - 'military intelligence', 'honest politician', 'honourable thief'..etc.

I must be thick - please explain.

[piston broke]

i can't see the fail.
or are you saying that the fermentition process makes it (inorganic) ?
expect organic food to cost more as as someone has to keep a lookout for bugs and fungi,rather than just poisoning the food every week with sprays.
nz is getting a whole lot better with the chemicals we put on our food.
big up's to those leading the charge.
shite 10 min's later,wtf has this to do with bikes.(epic fail to me)
sorry

[sinfull]

I must be thick - please explain.
One of "them" threads, Yeah guess ya had to be there !~

[Forest]

Organic means "Contains Carbon" or relates to organisms. It is impossible to make beer without yeast (organisms) therefore all beer (and fermented products) are, by definition organic.


One of the fun things about the English language is that words can have multiple and distinct meanings.

Ducati motorbikes are often praised for their organic flowing lines. Companies who acquire their competitors are said to be growing organically. A piece of art might be praised for its organic unity.

If the beer was described as "chemical free" then it would definitely be worth a chuckle.

[Forest]

It's perfectly possible - the empty in the recyclatron is evidence of that. However, it is kind of ironic. Or perhaps oxymoronic would be more correct.

It isn't oxymoronic. The word you wanted was tautology.

[vifferman]

i can't see the fail.
or are you saying that the fermentition process makes it (inorganic) ?
expect organic food to cost more as as someone has to keep a lookout for bugs and fungi,rather than just poisoning the food every week with sprays.
nz is getting a whole lot better with the chemicals we put on our food.
big up's to those leading the charge.
Oh dear - you have been sucked in haven't you (no offense intended.
Well... maybe just a little bit. :blank:
This isn't the answer - just a reply to your statements. Organic food is usually worse quality than normal food, and also more expensive, Take just one aspect of organic farming: avoiding "chemicals" for fertilising the soil. Many organic farmers use "natural" fertilizers (i.e., shit), with the result that many crops have very high levels of faecal coliforms, making the products extremely dangerous, c.f., "unnatural" food. No-one's demonstrably died from food fertilised with commercial fertilisers, but many people have got very sick or died from food poisoning due to faecal contamination. (And any way - the nutrients and organic compounds (in the true, not hippy sense) the platns need are just chemicals anyway. How can the plant tell the difference?)

Anyway, rant mode off. :rolleyes:
The answer is this: the purpose of organic food is supposedly to make the food more natural and healthy. The makers of the organic beer have overlooked one very important fact: the beer contains (by design) 4.2% of a harmful neurotoxin. It doesn't matter WTF they make the beer out of, beer is by design poisonous.
Why bother? [insert that very useful :spudwhat: emoticodweebicon here]

[piston broke]

no offence taken.

but after a decade working on orchards,i sorta know a bit about the pesticides and fertalisers that are sprayed.
i think you will find that organic fertalisers are made from seaweed and such,not shit.

[vifferman]

no offence taken.

but after a decade working on orchards,i sorta know a bit about the pesticides and fertalisers that are sprayed.
i think you will find that organic fertalisers are made from seaweed and such,not shit.
Maybe in your experience (and I bow to the fact it's much greater'n mine), but not always - especially not for veges.
And yes, some of the chemicals used on orchards in particular are pretty nasty (father-in-law owned one for 25 years or so, and I worked on it on a casual basis).

[Mikkel]

I bought some beer today, including a really nice-looking one from a boutique brewery. When I cracked it and got around to perusing the label, I discovered it proudly proclaimed it was an "organic beer".
"Hmmm...." I thought, "that's an epic fail if ever there was one!"

I always laugh when I see "organic sea salt" in the supermarket. :weird:


Nothing wrong with using shit as a fertiliser. That has been done for centuries and is still being used today. It's not dangerous and it's not harmful. You don't spray the standing crops with it though - just use it to prepare the soil once it has been plowed, but before seeding. Much less harmful than pumping livestock effluent into the rivers (and onto the road as well).

There's nothing wrong with the idea of organic produce (although the organic moniker is misleading and ill-conceived - ecologically sustainable would be more precise I suppose). Adapting more sustainable farming methods is not a bad idea - plenty of examples of soil depletion. Same goes for fish and freshwater.
I do however agree that there's a lot of bullshit hype about all the organic, free trade, what-have-you labels that are, to a large degree, only there to make people feel better about themselves and better than everybody else.

Just a by-thought: Funnily enough some of the nastiest shit out there are organic chemicals. Especially some organical solvents (not thinking ethanol here) can be truly nasty!

[McDuck]

A lot of people missunderstand the work 'organic'. People think it is spray free, people think it is hippy based etc. It isnt. It simply means that no man-made compounds are used in crop managment.

This means that for a funicide spray copper (a heavy metel) is in but another synthisised chemical is out. Another example is say a farmer wants to apply Phosphorous. This is element that the plant may need (a soil test should be conducted to determan how much). The first option is Tripple Super By ravensdown. This is fine for a normal grower but is non organic. The organic farmer/grower will need to use RPR or reactive rock Phosphate. This is organic, is cheeper but is very slow to work so if you alredy have defency syptoms it will be to late. it also takes about twice the amount to get the same concentration as in the tripple super.

Another example is Nitorgen. The Cheepest way to apply nitrogen is with urea but an organic grower cant usethis, they need to use things like blood and bone, compost, seaweed ferts etc to achive the same result.


I hope this made sence.

[Swoop]

It couldn't have been Sweinlager then.
That shit has got to be 110% chemicals.:blink:

[Mikkel]

A lot of people missunderstand the work 'organic'. People think it is spray free, people think it is hippy based etc. It isnt. It simply means that no man-made compounds are used in crop managment.

Where does elbow-grease come from? I pretty sure most farmers add a bit of that into the mix along the way.

[vifferman]

But are we agreed that it's pointless touting beer has organic status, when by design it's poisonous?
WTF is the point? :blink:

[Morcs]

I bought some beer today, including a really nice-looking one from a boutique brewery. When I cracked it and got around to perusing the label, I discovered it proudly proclaimed it was an "organic beer".
"Hmmm...." I thought, "that's an epic fail if ever there was one!"

Talk about laugh - I very nearly started.
It tasted OK though...

not sure it qualifies as an Epic fail. Maybe just a Fail.

to be an epic fail:


The highest form of fail (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fail) known to man. Reaching this level of fail means only one thing:

You must die, or the world will fail itself due to such an extreme level of failage (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=failage).

I dont think it qualifies.

So in a sense,

[vifferman]

not sure it qualifies as an Epic fail. Maybe just a Fail.
Of course you're right.
I entitled the thread "Epic Fail" only because it looked more betterer.
Perhaps I should get a Mod to change it to, "Maybe a Fail (on the basis of Oxymoronism)"

[slofox]

Vifferman, if you were drinking Epic Pale Ale, it would have to have been an EPIC SUCCESS.........and if you haven't tried Epic Pale Ale, you should have. I could always freight some to ya if you need me to.....at a modest cost of course.....

[-df-]

Take just one aspect of organic farming: avoiding "chemicals" for fertilising the soil. Many organic farmers use "natural" fertilizers (i.e., shit), with the result that many crops have very high levels of faecal coliforms, making the products extremely dangerous, c.f., "unnatural" food. No-one's demonstrably died from food fertilised with commercial fertilisers, but many people have got very sick or died from food poisoning due to faecal contamination. (And any way - the nutrients and organic compounds (in the true, not hippy sense) the platns need are just chemicals anyway. How can the plant tell the difference?)


Sigh...another person talking about "shit" they don't know about.

So...to qualify as bio-gro certified organic food, what must be done with the "shit" before it is used?

[vifferman]

Vifferman, if you were drinking Epic Pale Ale, it would have to have been an EPIC SUCCESS.........and if you haven't tried Epic Pale Ale, you should have. I could always freight some to ya if you need me to.....at a modest cost of course.....
I've tried one of the Epic Ales - can't remember which one.
It was OK, but not the best ale I've had, nor the most enjoyable.

[vifferman]

Sigh...another person talking about "shit" they don't know about.

So...to qualify as bio-gro certified organic food, what must be done with the "shit" before it is used?
Who cares?
I definitely don't.
Sheeeeesh....
The whole point was that organic is seemingly all about "pure" and "natural" and "good for you". As part of that, the use of "unnatural" things such as (quelle horreur!) chemicals is eschewed.
My point is what the fuck is the point in worrying about that, when the beer contains something which is far more harmful!
Not only is ethanol a chemical, they've designed it to be in there, and it's fucking poisonous! It's a neurotoxin!
Why go to so much trouble to be all pure and organic on something which is, when all is said and done, not organic. :weird:
Maybe the label was just confusing, and the "Organic" proudly proclaimed the fact that ethanol is an organic solvent.

Fuck me!
This started off as just a wee chortle while I was drinking me beer while infesting some meat with some carcinogens on the BBQ. If one of you geniuses (geniiiii?) had picked up early on what it was I was trying to lead you towards without sidetracking into a discussion about the whole whacky, hippy ripoff that the organics thing is, the thread would have stayed in "chortle" mode. :doh:This is the Rant and Rave forum after all.:Pokey:

Mods - please delete this thread. Some people around here take things WAY too seriously.

[The Pastor]

Who cares?
I definitely don't.
Sheeeeesh....
The whole point was that organic is seemingly all about "pure" and "natural" and "good for you". As part of that, the use of "unnatural" things such as (quelle horreur!) chemicals is eschewed.
My point is what the fuck is the point in worrying about that, when the beer contains something which is far more harmful!
Not only is ethanol a chemical, they've designed it to be in there, and it's fucking poisonous! It's a neurotoxin!
Why go to so much trouble to be all pure and organic on something which is, when all is said and done, not organic. :weird:
Maybe the label was just confusing, and the "Organic" proudly proclaimed the fact that ethanol is an organic solvent.

Fuck me!
This started off as just a wee chortle while I was drinking me beer while infesting some meat with some carcinogens on the BBQ. If one of you geniuses (geniiiii?) had picked up early on what it was I was trying to lead you towards without sidetracking into a discussion about the whole whacky, hippy ripoff that the organics thing is, the thread would have stayed in "chortle" mode. :doh:This is the Rant and Rave forum after all.:Pokey:

Mods - please delete this thread. Some people around here take things WAY too seriously.
dude like wtf your posting on the internet!

[-df-]

Who cares?
I definitely don't.
Sheeeeesh....
The whole point was that organic is seemingly all about "pure" and "natural" and "good for you". As part of that, the use of "unnatural" things such as (quelle horreur!) chemicals is eschewed.
My point is what the fuck is the point in worrying about that, when the beer contains something which is far more harmful!
Not only is ethanol a chemical, they've designed it to be in there, and it's fucking poisonous! It's a neurotoxin!
Why go to so much trouble to be all pure and organic on something which is, when all is said and done, not organic. :weird:
Maybe the label was just confusing, and the "Organic" proudly proclaimed the fact that ethanol is an organic solvent.

Fuck me!
This started off as just a wee chortle while I was drinking me beer while infesting some meat with some carcinogens on the BBQ. If one of you geniuses (geniiiii?) had picked up early on what it was I was trying to lead you towards without sidetracking into a discussion about the whole whacky, hippy ripoff that the organics thing is, the thread would have stayed in "chortle" mode. :doh:This is the Rant and Rave forum after all.:Pokey:

Mods - please delete this thread. Some people around here take things WAY too seriously.

ok...chill pill time me thinks.

You stated organic food basically will kill you because of the stuff you put onto it...which is so incorrect its funny.

so in fact you took it off your original topic...which was the only reason I responded.

Oh well...back to looking at bike pics...

[Hitcher]

I get more than a little annoyed when people use frivolous statements to give their widget an edge over their competition. I get very annoyed when such inferences are used to play on fears, prejudice or ignorance.

For example, there is a marketer of chicken meat products in New Zealand whose television advertisements smugly claim that their chicken products contain no "GM" or "hormone growth promotants", by inference implying that other chicken products produced in New Zealand may.

Let's look at both of these claims. The second one is easiest dealt with. No chickens grown in New Zealand contain hormone growth promotants, so untangle your knickers on that score immediately.

The issue of "GM" is a bit harder to deal with, because it is a religion. Let's consider a few salient points:

1. There is no empirical or scientific evidence to suggest that GM foods are harmful. Indeed if any of the sensationalist claims made by naysayers had any shread of substance, they would have been borne out by now, improbable that they are anyway.
2. New Zealand is not "GM" free. There are many GM products widely distributed for use by humans and other animals, the most common of these being insulin for Type 1 diabetics.
3. Any product containing soy most likely contains traces of GM soy, whether those products are imported for human or animal consumption. There are several GM constructs that are approved by FSANZ for consumption.

[vifferman]

I get more than a little annoyed when people use frivolous statements to give their widget an edge over their competition.
Yes, that's very nice, Dr Bret, and I agree, but what do you think about this organic beer?

[slofox]

I've tried one of the Epic Ales - can't remember which one.
It was OK, but not the best ale I've had, nor the most enjoyable.

So I'm guessing that the beer in question here today was maybe Emersons Pilsner ......which does have an 'organic' claim on the front label....which basically means the ingredients used in its manufacture are grown to whatever organic standards the grower adheres to - ie biogrow, or demeter or whatever.......
I always tell my customers that the alcohol works just as well whether organic or not.......:devil2: But you'd be surprised how many people seek out 'organic' booze............

[vifferman]

So I'm guessing that the beer in question here today was maybe Emersons Pilsner
No.
It wasn't a pilsener or pilsner. It was some reddish thing, claimfully organic, but contaminated with 4.2% ethanol. I can't remember what it was, and by now the recyclatron'll have been emptied, so I can't check. I'd know it if I came across it though.
Given it was supposedly only 4.2% (huh... my favourite Belgians are 8.x%), it seemed to have a wallop. Prolly those organic contaminants - didn't feel like the normal neurotoxicity beer usually has. More sort of poisony... :eek:
Didn't fully read the label either; coont be bothered sticky my reading glasses on (yeah, I'm getting old(er) and my eyes aren't what they was, and the organix made them worse), so I dunno what claims it made.
I'm not buying it again though.
You can never tell what's in that Hippy Stuff. :confused:
Give me Good Ole Straightforward ChemicAle any day.:apint:

[Hitcher]

Yes, that's very nice, Dr Bret, and I agree, but what do you think about this organic beer?

All beer is "organic". No beer that's brewed in New Zealand contains "chemicals". It's made from natural products contained in scrupulously clean stainless steel. There is no such thing as "organic". It's just another fucking religion.

[Big Dave]

<img src="http://homepage.mac.com/david_cohen_design/.Pictures/misc3/c-vs-t.gif">

[Mikkel]

This is the Rant and Rave forum after all.:Pokey:

And you started out raving and ended up ranting, wholy appropriate isn't it? :sunny:

[vifferman]

Nice cartoon, Mr Big the Dave, but I aint.
Ack (Shirly) perhaps I yam. :confused:
I just want someone (anyone) to acknowledge that it makes no sense to have "organic" on a beer bottle, as if it somehow imbues the contents with magical non-poisonous properties.
"Organic" + Organic Solvent = FAIL.

[Mikkel]

Nice cartoon, Mr Big the Dave, but I aint.
Ack (Shirly) perhaps I yam. :confused:
I just want someone (anyone) to acknowledge that it makes no sense to have "organic" on a beer bottle, as if it somehow imbues the contents with magical non-poisonous properties.
"Organic" + Organic Solvent = FAIL.

How about "organic", alcohol-free beer then?

[vifferman]

And you started out raving and ended up ranting, wholy appropriate isn't it? :sunny:
[Sigh]
I wish I had a few bottles of that stupid crappy beer right now - the whole saga, and the pro-organic organs coming outta the woodwork is enough to drive a man to drink...
Wish I'd noticed the label in the supermarket, then I'd never have started this foooookn thread.
Grrrrr! and all that.

[vifferman]

How about "organic", alcohol-free beer then?
That would make sense.
Well... as much sense as any of "that" stuff makes. :blank:

[slofox]

No.
It wasn't a pilsener or pilsner. It was some reddish thing, claimfully organic, but contaminated with 4.2% ethanol. I can't remember what it was, and by now the recyclatron'll have been emptied, so I can't check. I'd know it if I came across it though.
Given it was supposedly only 4.2% (huh... my favourite Belgians are 8.x%), it seemed to have a wallop. Prolly those organic contaminants - didn't feel like the normal neurotoxicity beer usually has. More sort of poisony... :eek:
Didn't fully read the label either; coont be bothered sticky my reading glasses on (yeah, I'm getting old(er) and my eyes aren't what they was, and the organix made them worse), so I dunno what claims it made.
I'm not buying it again though.
You can never tell what's in that Hippy Stuff. :confused:
Give me Good Ole Straightforward ChemicAle any day.:apint:

Mmmmm maybe a Founders Red Head then - from Nelson. They only use bio grow certified products in their beers. Read all about it here (http://www.biobrew.co.nz/index.php) if you can be bothered....

I stopped selling that range of beer - nobody wanted to buy it........

[vifferman]

Mmmmm maybe a Founders Red Head then - from Nelson. They only use bio grow certified products in their beers. Read all about it here (http://www.biobrew.co.nz/index.php) if you can be bothered....

I stopped selling that range of beer - nobody wanted to buy it........
Yeah, that's the stuff!
We hatesss them we doessss...
Sssspoiled our happinesssss they hassss....

:rofl:

I see they're trying to find a sales rep for Auckland. :confused:
:rofl:


:rofl:

[slofox]

I see they're trying to find a sales rep for Auckland. :confused: :rofl:

They've stopped trying to sell it to me now.....finally.....

[slofox]

Try the Renaissance beers from Blenheim...mmmmm nice....(no organic claims either...)

[vifferman]

Try the Renaissance beers from Blenheim...mmmmm nice....(no organic claims either...)
I think I have one in my fridge.
If so, it's good (had one a week or so ago).... [browses the googler]
Indeed it was!
I had the Scotch Ale, and have the American Pale Ale or the Perfection in the fridge (forget which - my brain's been ruined by that organic bilge). :blink:

[Big Dave]

Nice cartoon, Mr Big the Dave, but I aint.
Ack (Shirly) perhaps I yam. :confused:
I just want someone (anyone) to acknowledge that it makes no sense to have "organic" on a beer bottle, as if it somehow imbues the contents with magical non-poisonous properties.
"Organic" + Organic Solvent = FAIL.

I just liked the cartoon and was pointing at hitcher.

[Forest]

All beer is "organic". No beer that's brewed in New Zealand contains "chemicals". It's made from natural products contained in scrupulously clean stainless steel. There is no such thing as "organic". It's just another fucking religion.

Bollocks. A number of major brewerys add non-natural chemical additives and enzymatic agents to their beers in order to tweak the properties of the brew.

Beer is a little unusual in that the brewers have a statutory exemption from listing the ingredients. The typical additives can include:

Propylene glycol alginate
Acetolactatedecarboxylase (ALDC)
Amyloglucosidase
Betaglucanases
Arabinoxylanases
Papain
Potassium metabisulfite
Food colouring

[Hitcher]

Bollocks. A number of major brewerys add non-natural chemical additives and enzymatic agents to their beers in order to tweak the properties of the brew.

Breweries. I am shattered at this revelation.

[Forest]

Breweries. I am shattered at this revelation.

Hah. I forget about the irregular plural (God damned dutch and their brouwerij).

[jrandom]

Potassium metabisulfite

Dunno about the others, but I'm pretty darn sure that ain't organic.

*sips his vodka and lemonade*

[Ixion]

Prop glycol alginate is made from kelp (seaweed). Papain is made from papaya (the fruit) . Sounds pretty natural to me. Not to mention decidedly carbonaceously organic.

[Ixion]

Dunno about the others, but I'm pretty darn sure that ain't organic.

*sips his vodka and lemonade*

Want to bet whether anything in your lemonade ever saw a lemon tree?

[Forest]

Prop glycol alginate is made from kelp (seaweed). Papain is made from papaya (the fruit) . Sounds pretty natural to me. Not to mention decidedly carbonaceously organic.

I didn't say that the additives on the list were non-organic - I said that they were non-natural.

Alginates and Papain are extracted from natural sources, but they undergo fairly major chemical manipulation as part of the extraction and purification processes.

[jrandom]

Prop glycol alginate is made from kelp (seaweed). Papain is made from papaya (the fruit) . Sounds pretty natural to me. Not to mention decidedly carbonaceously organic.

Potassium metabisulfate isn't, though. K2S2O5. Apparently it's used as a sterilising agent. Charming, eh? You're drinking, like, bleach.

[Lucy]

But are we agreed that it's pointless touting beer has organic status, when by design it's poisonous?
WTF is the point? :blink:


Cos it's less poisonous than non-organic beer?

[jrandom]

Cos it's less poisonous than non-organic beer?

You don't get it, do you?

'Organic' has a precise meaning in chemistry. It means compounds containing carbon.

Ethanol contains carbon.

Therefore it is impossible to have an inorganic alcoholic beverage.

Y'dig?

[Lucy]

You don't get it, do you?

'Organic' has a precise meaning in chemistry. It means compounds containing carbon.

Ethanol contains carbon.

Therefore it is impossible to have an inorganic alcoholic beverage.

Y'dig?


Yeah I do get it, but I'm not talking about the meanings of words in chemistry connotations.

I'm talking about beer.

I love beer.

[Ixion]

Potassium metabisulfate isn't, though. K2S2O5. Apparently it's used as a sterilising agent. Charming, eh? You're drinking, like, bleach.

Nope, pot metabisulphate is inorganic, sure nuff. Almost all low alcohol drinks need some sort of mould killer to kill of residual or opportunistic mould and yeasts. Other wise your beer would go all yeasty and mouldy.

Bet you EVERY brewer (including home brewers) uses pot meta or something very similar to sterilise casks and brewing vessels.

Organic and natural doesn't necessarily mean good. Rotten food is certainly organic ,and highly natural. But I'd rather not partake, unless it's cheese (or botrytis wine I guess).

[jrandom]

I'm talking about beer.

I love beer.

Then have another, and damned be him that first cries, "'snot real stuff!"

<img src="http://i34.tinypic.com/nqwjyv.gif"> <img src="http://i33.tinypic.com/iq9auv.jpg"/>

Sorry. I'll get me coat.

[Forest]

Cos it's less poisonous than non-organic beer?

Everything is poisonous - if the dosage is high enough!

[Lucy]

Everything is poisonous - if the dosage is high enough!


True love isn't. Mmmmmm beer.

That's like saying "everything is organic if you break it down enough"

Can we get back to just drinking beer now please...?

[Swoop]

The typical additives can include:

Propylene glycol alginate
Acetolactatedecarboxylase (ALDC)
Amyloglucosidase
Betaglucanases
Arabinoxylanases
Papain
Potassium metabisulfite
Food colouring

What??
No Melamine???

[Mikkel]

True love isn't. Mmmmmm beer.

Too much love will kill you.


That's like saying "everything is organic if you break it down enough"

That's the thing though - everything is INorganic if you break it down enough.
Carbon in and off itself is not organic. Carbon chains, with hydrogen, hydroxide, etc groups attached, are what organic chemistry is all about.

Again, this is why the term "organic seasalt" is so bloody hilarious. There's absolutely nothing organic about salts like sodium hydroxide.

[vifferman]

... everything is INorganic if you break it down enough.
Carbon in and off itself is not organic. Carbon chains, with hydrogen, hydroxide, etc groups attached, are what organic chemistry is all about.

Again, this is why the term "organic seasalt" is so bloody hilarious. There's absolutely nothing organic about salts like sodium hydroxide.
Yeah, it was an unfortunate term for the greenies to appropriate.
But... that's not actually what I meant by the original post. It's not so much about ethanol being an organic solvent as about the association organic producers want you to make (Organic=Pure/good/Healthy/Natural) and the fact that ethanol is poisonous and unhealthy. Not quite so bad as say, organic rat poison, but the same sorta thing...

[Mikkel]

Yeah, it was an unfortunate term for the greenies to appropriate.
But... that's not actually what I meant by the original post. It's not so much about ethanol being an organic solvent as about the association organic producers want you to make (Organic=Pure/good/Healthy/Natural) and the fact that ethanol is poisonous and unhealthy. Not quite so bad as say, organic rat poison, but the same sorta thing...

Oh, I saw your point quite a while back... But as we all know, all good things in life are actually bad for you:

Alcohol
Red meat
Sex
Speeding
Drugs
...

Doesn't mean we shun the good things that are bad for us eh? Life's gotta be worth living too.

When it comes to alcohol I don't care that the ethanol is a weak neurotoxin with potentially severe long-term effects - the ethanol is to a large degree the reason I drink it.
I do however care about what other shit is put in there - mainly because I dislike hangovers... a lot. The purer the spirit is the less other stuff there is to cause your system any grief. This is why I usually drink good quality vodka or rum straight when I want to get drunk. I love my whisky and cognac, but some of the compounds are too hangover inducing to make me want to consume a lot of it - besides good quality whisky and especially cognac is quite a bit dearer than a good rum or vodka.
From that perspective - if organic does indeed mean purer - I don't mind an organic label on my beer. However, labelling something as organic is usually just bullshit - and sometimes, like with the salts, a blatant lie.