The Importance of Being Distant...

[Fatt Max]

Jeez, what a ride into work I've just had.

Two examples today of watching your distance.

This website has great advice from people who generously donate their knowledge, wisdom and experience to people like me to help us through the day so before I go on I want to say thanks to all KB'rs out there for banging on about safety, savvy riding and generally looking out for yourself.

So....

Its a clear dry morning in Auckland, I'm following a car on a busy stretch of East Auckland road, I can see nothing in front of him and I am '2 second ruling' nicely behind him. Then, he smacks on his brakes without warning, I'm far enough away to use both brakes gently and stop about 2m behind him. He stopped to let a family of ducks cross the road which I didnt see but if I had ignored KB advice and been closer, I probably would have ended up in the passenger seat with him.

Then, literally 5 miniutes later I'm trundling down Lunn Ave behind a ute which is towing a trailer with a load of timber on the back. He also decides to brake a bit heavy, again I have enough time and space to stop but the prick had a plank sticking out the back of the trailer which was overhanging at least 1.5m with no flag on it. The plank would have been about 1m from my chest when I stopped, what the f**k would have happened if I had taken my eye off the ball and pulled up close. I wanted to have a rant at him over that but he buggered off a bit quick so I let it go.

So there, keep the distance guys n gals. Thanks to all you KB'rs for reminding us on that one, today is an example mee thinks

Have a great day

[TOTO]

covering both your brakes in the city also helps against unexpected stuff like that and people pulling in front of you from side streets.

good on ya man :niceone:

[portokiwi]

Good on you mate for staying back. Its not worth the risk.

[jrandom]

Good shit!

Also, don't forget that if things do turn to custard and you're left without braking distance, you can swerve around vehicles in front of you. There's almost always room to shoot up the side. Keep your eye on where the gaps are.

And well saved this morning.

:yes:

[sunhuntin]

hope that dick with the unmarked timber gets spotted by the cops. loads like that can be very hard to judge... you cant tell how far the excess wood is sticking out. ive seen that quite often and stayed well back. when ive stopped behind them at lights or whatever, ive seen that the beam is actually sticking out furthur than first judged.

good work to you, and also to the driver who stopped for the ducks.

[Mom]

You dont stop for ducks crossing the road unless you are driving through Warkworths main street at 5pm when the acorns are falling from the trees.

I once ran over a line of ducklings following their mommy across the road, friggen terrible thing to do, but traffic meant I had no option to avoid without causing an accident. They made a kind of popping sound under the tyres :yes:

Good skills today Fatt Max!

[CookMySock]

The really dangerous ones are hdden queues on the motorways. Its bloody easy to fly along at 80-100k and discover, horrifyingly, that the lane in front of you is at a complete standstill.

Ya really gotta keep ya eyes well forward here.

Steve

[ital916]

You dont stop for ducks crossing the road unless you are driving through Warkworths main street at 5pm when the acorns are falling from the trees.

I once ran over a line of ducklings following their mommy across the road, friggen terrible thing to do, but traffic meant I had no option to avoid without causing an accident. They made a kind of popping sound under the tyres :yes:

Good skills today Fatt Max!

I understand describing the soundbut why the smiling nodding face as well. Jeez i hope a line of babies never cross the road in front of you...:eek:, negating the facts behind why a line of babies would be crossing in front of you haha.

Nice save btw, 2 second rule ftw, oh as a fellow vl250 rider, have you managed to lock the rear yet, I have tried to in an empty car park and all I get is a strong steady slowing from the rear drum, as far as drum brakes on learner bikes go it's pretty good, I reckon there's a conspiracy going on with the new fangled disk brakes supposedly better than drums, :shifty::sherlock:

[Gremlin]

Remember when braking for the traffic ahead, that once you are under control, watch behind you for those that aren't watching out.

Stopped traffic on the motorway is a brilliant example. I've had to take evasive action several times to avoid being taken out by drivers not paying attention behind me.

[CookMySock]

Stopped traffic on the motorway is a brilliant example. I've had to take evasive action several times to avoid being taken out by drivers not paying attention behind me.If you are forced to stop really quick behind a queue of traffic, what you can do is split three or four vehicles off the back of the queue. This gives you a few more meters slopping distance and puts quite a few tonnes of steel between you and the following vehicles who will also be in crises mode.

Of course you could just slow down and pay attention, but hey we all fuck up occasionally.


Steve

[Gremlin]

Of course you could just slow down and pay attention, but hey we all fuck up occasionally.
Yeh, sounds like good advice. So when I am braking comfortably for the issues ahead, almost stopped, hear a screech from behind... I fucked up? I then pull to one side of the lane, and a car screeches to a stop next to me? Fuck any cop that says stay in traffic is all I say.

One thing to watch out for when starting to split tho, in the dangerous cases, normally only one lane suddenly stops, if you have slowed already, other lanes will have a decent speed differential to you, so be careful when pulling out from a line of cars.

[CookMySock]

So when I am braking comfortably for the issues ahead, almost stopped, hear a screech from behind... I fucked up? I then pull to one side of the lane, and a car screeches to a stop next to me? Fuck any cop that says stay in traffic is all I say.Naw I mean, collectively we all make mistakes occasionally - its not a perfect world. edit: I was always taught, once I had my own braking under control - start taking responsibility for the person following.

It's unusual for a long chain of things to go very wrong in the same incident. Ie, if I screw up my following distance and have to crash-brake, probably the bloke behind me doesn't have to. Or if I split down the side of the cars in this situation, it is unlikely that said risky lane-split will be the one-in-a-hundred split that knocks me off my bike.

So I mean, if you are in a dangerous situation, I would say that statistically, you are almost always better to take some risky evasive action (as you have suggested) than just do nothing.


one thing to watch out for when starting to split tho, in the dangerous cases, normally only one lane suddenly stops, if you have slowed already, other lanes will have a decent speed differential to you, so be careful when pulling out from a line of cars.Agree completely. You could split immediately, and either keep your speed up and merge with the fast moving lane, or dump speed and merge with the stopped lane. Large amounts of experience, skill, and gonads are required for the former, or else you are likely to get squished under the latter. Even in a cage, sometimes you are safer to do two quick shoulder or mirror checks, and then an immediate change lane, but again - large amounts of experience, situational awareness, and thinking on your feet are required. Not newbie territory. Good fun though.


Steve

[Fatt Max]

Nice save btw, 2 second rule ftw, oh as a fellow vl250 rider, have you managed to lock the rear yet, I have tried to in an empty car park and all I get is a strong steady slowing from the rear drum, as far as drum brakes on learner bikes go it's pretty good, I reckon there's a conspiracy going on with the new fangled disk brakes supposedly better than drums, :shifty::sherlock:


Mangaged to lock the rear once going around a roundabout on my first day out. Smacked it into first and the fecking thing nearly exploded on me. Otherwise, touch wood, its been ok

[Fatt Max]

Hey all,

Thanks for the kind words and pointers, certainly learned a bit more since this morning.

Cheers

[stanleychung]

Hey all,

Thanks for the kind words and pointers, certainly learned a bit more since this morning.

Cheers

I second that. Thanks to everyone. I'm now really really nervous about taking my first ride :wacko:

[Fatt Max]

I second that. Thanks to everyone. I'm now really really nervous about taking my first ride :wacko:

Dont worry mate, just take it easy, heed the advice and make sure you know how to stop the thing in case you get into trouble. You'll be sweet mate, just grab it and go...!

[CookMySock]

I'm now really really nervous about taking my first ride :wacko:You will be perfectly ok - lots and lots of people ride motorbikes, and so can you. It's not hard.

It is normal to be nervous for your first ever ride around a carpark. Once you have done this you will feel much better and then you will start to get excited.

After that, just do little new things when you feel ready. Don't try new things if you feel nervous, because this is when you make big mistakes - go and do something unrelated when you feel nervous.

Let your feelings go down, then try a new thing, then take a break. Come back in an hour, or a day or two - whatever time you need, there is no rush. This way the fun will last longer too.


Steve

[stanleychung]

Dont worry mate, just take it easy, heed the advice and make sure you know how to stop the thing in case you get into trouble. You'll be sweet mate, just grab it and go...!

Thanks guys for all the encouragement. I cant wait until my bike arrives. Ohh the sleepless nights!! :rolleyes:

[Gremlin]

I second that. Thanks to everyone. I'm now really really nervous about taking my first ride :wacko:
As DB said, and don't try to do too much at once, as a newbie you'll pretty much forget the whole lot, as you try to make sense of everything. Hence why you practise somewhere safe, quiet, to get the basics down.

I've been riding around Auckland for more than 3.5 years, currently I clock up more than 300km per work week riding around for work, and I live no further than 20km from the CBD. *touch wood* I haven't had traffic/city crashes, but you learn a lot, and see a lot.

As you ride more, you'll continue to learn, and your skills will continue to develop, you'll be able to process more in every situation etc. Just take it easy as a newbie. Babies have to walk before they can run :niceone:

[slofox]

As you ride more, you'll continue to learn, and your skills will continue to develop, you'll be able to process more in every situation etc. :

Very true - in fact you never stop learning. I had a long break away from bikes and have been back aboard for six months now...STILL learning on the latest bike, 6000km later.......

[breakaway]

Another important thing to do when riding is always have an escape route. Even if you are keeping suitable following distance, always be planning an escape route, like the median, or down the left side, whatever - where you can swerve to.

[scumdog]

Yup, ya can't beat bucket of nice clean air between you and the solid objects on front of you...the air tends not to hurt as much.

[dpex]

Jeez, what a ride into work I've just had.

Two examples today of watching your distance.

This website has great advice from people who generously donate their knowledge, wisdom and experience to people like me to help us through the day so before I go on I want to say thanks to all KB'rs out there for banging on about safety, savvy riding and generally looking out for yourself.

So....

Its a clear dry morning in Auckland, I'm following a car on a busy stretch of East Auckland road, I can see nothing in front of him and I am '2 second ruling' nicely behind him. Then, he smacks on his brakes without warning, I'm far enough away to use both brakes gently and stop about 2m behind him. He stopped to let a family of ducks cross the road which I didnt see but if I had ignored KB advice and been closer, I probably would have ended up in the passenger seat with him.

Then, literally 5 miniutes later I'm trundling down Lunn Ave behind a ute which is towing a trailer with a load of timber on the back. He also decides to brake a bit heavy, again I have enough time and space to stop but the prick had a plank sticking out the back of the trailer which was overhanging at least 1.5m with no flag on it. The plank would have been about 1m from my chest when I stopped, what the f**k would have happened if I had taken my eye off the ball and pulled up close. I wanted to have a rant at him over that but he buggered off a bit quick so I let it go.

So there, keep the distance guys n gals. Thanks to all you KB'rs for reminding us on that one, today is an example mee thinks

Have a great day

Not that I'm any expert, you understand, but when I get with half a K of anything which is moving my fingers are over both clutch and brake handles.

It's now such an endemic 'habit' that I never need to use my back brake for a hill start. I roll the throttle between thumb and forefinger, ease off clutch and brake at the 'right' time, and a way I go.

I ended up going back to this arrangement at the track-day I just completed.

The timer-diff, when your hand is rolled around the bars, till when your brain says, 'Danger', and your fingers fly out and pull, might be 7/10ths of a second. But with your fingers on the handles, you gain 4/10ths of a second. You can travel a shit long distance in 4/10ths of a second.

Developing the technique is like everything we do, from talking to walking. Just takes a bit of practice.

Us 'old-floggs' can get a bit of hand-cramp going but I, personally, don't give a rat's arse. You youngies won't even notice.

But that's only half the solution. The other half is actually practicing emergency braking. Not just once and then, 'Okay, I got that,' but do it regularly.

Funny ting is, the more you practice the less you seem to need to use it. Must a message in there, somewhere.

City traffic rate is where you need most practice.

Let's face it, a biker's mind drifts, like a cager's mind. Suddenly your 2 sec gap has gone and Dick the Dick slams on the anchors cos he wasn't concentrating either. Wet road, white lines, oils spills. Four wheels cut it. Two don't unless you practice.

It's worth noting that you might feel a bit foolish 'practicing' emergency stopping. I did a bit, and I don't normally care at all for the opinion of others. So I found a bit of quiet road in an industrial area, and just go at it, at least once a week.

Nobody is around after 5:30, so I can get up to 100Ks.

I practice straight-line braking. Slight turns at higher speeds, (that's high-side-splat material unless you practice knowing the 'when' to ease off) braking. Slower, medium.

The thing is, a habit is something which evolves from practice. A 'habit' can disappear from lack of practice.

I practice on down-hills, with just the tips of my index finders on the bars. This is improving my balance....fact is, I've done enough of this to enable me to do hands-off, even through mild corners.

So the message is, practice, practice, and then practice some more, and just when you think you've got it all sussed, keep practicing. :--))

So, go practice.

[discotex]

The timer-diff, when your hand is rolled around the bars, till when your brain says, 'Danger', and your fingers fly out and pull, might be 7/10ths of a second. But with your fingers on the handles, you gain 4/10ths of a second. You can travel a shit long distance in 4/10ths of a second.


So would you drive a cage with your left foot over the brake pedal?

In the US their MSF course specifically teaches to NOT cover the brake all the time. You should only cover when you see a situation that might require braking - i.e. you're coming up to an intersection where there's a cage or splitting etc.

The logic (which I happen to totally agree with) is that if you cover the brake and get startled by something you are more likely to over brake. Or worse, brake hard and turn at the same time - instant lowside.



So there, keep the distance guys n gals. Thanks to all you KB'rs for reminding us on that one, today is an example mee thinks


Go you Fatt. Nice use of the safety buffer.

Just out of interest did you also have wheel track positioning or were you in the middle of the lane?

Generally if I'm in the right wheel track I can see past the car to know what's going to happen. Right wheel track unless I'm the the right most lane of a multi-lane road. Then I use left track. Helps with the "dive down the side" option :)

[stanleychung]

Thanks for all the comprehensive advice. There is a newly "no exit" sub division just built up close to where i live and its fairly new still and the roads are very new. There is a few round about thrown in there and some intersections. I think that will be an awesome place to practice.

About that covering your brake with your finger. I'm normally a cyclist mon to fri to work and i find that people really dont see you even though I'm riding a Very bright Fluro Green bike with flashing lights front and back, so I'm doing that almost automatically.

21 days and counting till the bike arrives.

[toycollector10]

Never, ever, get in behind a ute with a load on the back or a trailer carrying anything.

I saw an idiot with a caged trailer with a door angled up "into wind" if you know what I mean. Next thing, BANG, it's over the back and splintering all down the road. How easy would it have been to angle the door so the wind slipped over it and the wind pressure held it down on the crate? / instead of \, direction of travel being right to left.

[vfxdog]

Discotex is making a really good point about road positioning, and it is worth repeating. From the sound of it the OP was positioned central in the lane in both situations. Don't be.
Stay in either the left or right wheel track and you will then always have a better chance of an escape route to the side of the vehicle ahead. The other big plus is that the two wheel tracks will always be cleaner than the centre of the lane, especially in the wet. Your potential stopping distance is always going to be shorter AND you get an escape route.
The centre of the lane is the bit that gets various drips from engines, gearboxes, aircon condensate etc etc, and can be like ice.

[buellbabe]

I have learnt the hard way about following distances... many years ago I rearended a car that decided to STOP cos they were out-of-towners and were lost.

My Sporty made a big V dent in the back of their car and I made a big ouch dent on my tank ...

But like others have said, its all very well you doing the right thing and having room to stop but always be aware of the idiots behind YOU who probably DON'T have room...

Another one of my experiences...was on my way home from a Rally down in the Sth Is...had made it all the way down there and was on the 'home stretch' approaching Mercer. This was a few years back when that stretch of road was still undergoing road works.
Well the traffic heading north was herded into one lane and had to stop and so I also dutifully stopped.
The next moment I heard screaming brakes behind me and because I take note of whats around and behind me I knew that a truck had been following me. I quickly put the bike into gear and made a beeline left between the road cones...the truckdriver saw me going left and swung his truck to the right. He just clipped my rear and the truck ended up jackknifed on the median strip!
I kept the bike upright despite getting a huge shunt! Incredibly the damage was minimal...but I reckon I lost one of my 9 lives!

[DarkLord]

Well done. I learned that the hard way as well. Twice I have had cars on the road in front of me come to a complete stop for no apparent reason.

The first time, I was fatigued and riding on shit tyres in the wet with my mp3 player going. It cost me the bike as it slipped on the wet, flew out from under me, went straight across the road and straight into a car (fortunately without me on it as I just went face first straight into the road and was uninjured.

The second time, I was well behind and somewhat wiser after the crash. Some stupid woman stopped completely in the middle of the road for no reason but because my following distance was good, I saw it well in advance and just cruised past, not without an angry glare at her, of course.

It annoys me when I see cagers (and even sometimes other bikers) following too close as it really can be the difference between life and death.

[MarkH]

The really dangerous ones are hdden queues on the motorways. Its bloody easy to fly along at 80-100k and discover, horrifyingly, that the lane in front of you is at a complete standstill.

Ya really gotta keep ya eyes well forward here.

Good advice for everywhere - keep ya eyes well forward, spot the problem in plenty of time to do something about it. I often start braking before the car in front of me because I was watching further ahead than they were.

Pay attention to what's happening ahead - it could save your life!