Is National being irresponsible?

[Winston001]

I'm a bit disillusioned with John Key and the National Party. This election should be a walkover for them in terms of the popular vote although MMP means it's possible they might not be able to form a government.

Nevertheless, I do not understand all of the spending promises they are making. I'd have thought the responsible position would be not to announce any lollie scramble at all and cane Labour every time they offered to spend money. After all, we've had 9 years of Michael Cullen telling us how the Government cannot afford X, Y and Z..... The voters would be pretty suspicious of Labour suddenly finding all the extra money.

But NO. What happens? Both parties are trying to outpromise each other in doling out bits of money to voters.

I'm seriously thinking of not voting for National. ACT will get my Party vote anyway.

[MSTRS]

I'm seriously thinking of not voting for National. ACT will get my Party vote anyway.

Then you will be wasting both votes,
All parties know that votes are for sale and will at least hover around the edges of $ promises.
Will you support a party that bases it's campaign on telling us how bad the other party/s are??
The thing you have to ask yourself is, will Party XYZ do well for me first, and the country second?

[vifferman]

I'm seriously thinking of not voting for National. ACT will get my Party vote anyway.
You should telephone Mr Key and tell him that.
I'm sure he'll be mortified, and recant all his irresponsible and wayward statements...

[Usarka]

Bribes worked for labour last election and it's a fair assumption that most nz'ers will vote based on WIIFM rather than the "bigger picture".

I am getting sick of these labour ad's talking about not trusting key. Anyone remember someone signing a painting they didn't paint, or getting their driver to speed to a rugby game then hanging them out to dry, or the numerous other un-trustworthy acts.....

How about advertising based on policy not personal attacks?

[jim.cox]

I'm a bit disillusioned with John Key and the National Party. This election should be a walkover for them in terms of the popular vote although MMP means it's possible they might not be able to form a government.

Quite agree with you

They should walk away with this election

But somehow they are failing to fire

I really want rid of Uncle Helen

So National will get my vote

I'm not swayed by election bribery (if anything just the reverse) but would much prefer they a strong line against government spending and featherbedding of the bureaucracy

Maybe I should vote ACT?

[Blossom]

meh whoever you vote for government wins.

So you might as well just vote for who you think would be best for our country. It may not count at the end of the day but its better than not voting at all. (I am told a lot of people do not vote)

[vifferman]

I am getting sick of these labour ad's talking about not trusting key. Anyone remember someone signing a painting they didn't paint, or getting their driver to speed to a rugby game then hanging them out to dry, or the numerous other un-trustworthy acts.....

How about advertising based on policy not personal attacks?
Yeah, they piss me off too (and I'm not really a National party supporter, nor particualrly anti-Labour). I have a feeling that for anyone apart from a die-hard Labourphile, these ads will have the opposite effect to that intended.

[Blossom]

Yeah, they piss me off too (and I'm not really a National party supporter, nor particualrly anti-Labour). I have a feeling that for anyone apart from a die-hard Labourphile, these ads will have the opposite effect to that intended.

here here... quite agree. I wondered if it was just me or if there had been a great lack of policy statements and a profuse ammount of mud slinging that only I noticed.

Fire them all... start again...:shutup:

[jim.cox]

Yeah I trust Uncle Helen

Trust her to give us another three years of just the same

Thats why she has to go.

[vifferman]

Fire them all... start again...:shutup:
Thank goodness for MadBikeBoy's impending fascist dictatorship....

[portokiwi]

:niceone:Who ever wins got my vote:msn-wink:

[Swoop]

Nevertheless, I do not understand all of the spending promises they are making.


I'm seriously thinking of not voting for National. ACT will get my Party vote anyway.
Liarbour's bribe of a "packet of chewing gum" tax cut, bought the stupid peoples' votes last time.

Party vote for Act, as that will make a stronger base to govern with.

[retro asian]

I'm a bit disillusioned with John Key and the National Party. This election should be a walkover for them in terms of the popular vote although MMP means it's possible they might not be able to form a government.

Nevertheless, I do not understand all of the spending promises they are making. I'd have thought the responsible position would be not to announce any lollie scramble at all and cane Labour every time they offered to spend money. After all, we've had 9 years of Michael Cullen telling us how the Government cannot afford X, Y and Z..... The voters would be pretty suspicious of Labour suddenly finding all the extra money.

But NO. What happens? Both parties are trying to outpromise each other in doling out bits of money to voters.

I'm seriously thinking of not voting for National. ACT will get my Party vote anyway.

What's your last name Winston?

[Tank]

On the bright side National have a plan for the economy and are publishing how they intend of paying for the promises.

Labour on the other hard have published nothing and only say "we will do a mini budget in December".

So they have been in control of the books for 9 years and cannot tell us their plan until 1 month after they are voted back.

FFS - if you dont think we arnt going to get screwed on that budget - well its just not worth talking about.

ACT isnt a silly vote - as long as Rodders gets in!

[Winston001]

What's your last name Winston?

Gad - sprung!! :shutup:

Hmmmm........

That's not the question you should be asking - tell me this - Where is there one shred of fact, one iota of evidence in your post??..... the people of New Zealand are sick and tired of you lot and have had enough! They understand what this country needs which is less Retro Asians and more decent people on superannuation who will vote for me!! :Punk:

[Winston001]

Will you support a party that bases it's campaign on telling us how bad the other party/s are??

Well no, I don't like that either. Negative politicking is awful.

However before the campaigns kicked off I thought National would say very little and let Labour trip over themselves. All National had to do was say "steady as she goes, there is an economic crisis, all bets are off, but we'll handle it better than Labour".

Seriously - it would work. That is exactly what the Labour did in 1984. Very little poklicy but a fresh new look contrasted with a tired Muldoon.



The thing you have to ask yourself is, will Party XYZ do well for me first, and the country second?

Ok, for me it's what party will serve NZ best. Longterm thats good for me and my children. I'm not interested in my personal position unless its increased taxes.

[MisterD]

ACT isnt a silly vote - as long as Rodders gets in!

He's got 50% plus polling in Epsom - he's in alright. Saw him doing the human-billboard bit at the Shore Rd / Ayr St roundabout last night, so I went round twice tooting my horn!

[Storm]

Thats what I admire about Rodney- he has to work to get elected, unlike these lazy shites who have grovelled thier way far enough up the list not to have to rely on getting elected.
My 2c worth is that we arsehole the party vote-just have local seats. If you dont win in the town you live in (and thats where you'll have to impress), you dont get in.
Simple.
No win, no seat in the controlling body.
No list to save your worthless arse that no-one anywhere wanted running thier lives. Sue-I-know-whats-best-for-you-all-even-though-80%-of-the-country-told-me-where-to-stick-it-Bradford, I'm looking at you and your kind here

That would make several riders of the current gravy trains VERY uncomfortable

Ok, I'm done ranting. As you were

[vifferman]

I see Rod is in trouble for his canary yellow jacket - apparently it runs foul of the stupid electoral advertising reform act Labour pushed through, as it has a slogan on it but doesn't state on it the details of the person in charge of the advertising campaign or somesuch. Rodders knew about this, and is just seeing how far he can push things till he gets hauled in.
Good for him - none of the parties should put up with any of that bollocks.

[Quasievil]

me voting ACT to, do you know who wrote ACTS law n Order policey ???? the sensible sentencing group, thats listening to the people ! they have my votre without question.

Labour tonight (sson) will be announcing some new piece of dirt on the National, more secret recordings apparently, thats the focus of labour , big international crises and they are flying to aussy trying to find dirt and releasing conversations which are out of context to win another three years.
Fucking Hoe bag, she needs to be expelled from the country on Saturday night

[freddy72]

I am getting sick of these labour ad's talking about not trusting key. Anyone remember someone signing a painting they didn't paint, or getting their driver to speed to a rugby game then hanging them out to dry, or the numerous other un-trustworthy acts.....

How about advertising based on policy not personal attacks?

I am also sick of these ads, all it shows me is that Labour has nothing to offer us in the future, and they feel their only chance to get in is to personally belittle Mr Key. It would not worry me if they were attacking the National party; I just believe they do not need to get personal. I do not recall seeing any other Ads on the box from other parties that are essentially personal attacks. I have found most of them do give you some information about the policies they want to implement.

[Maha]

Go back a few months and I would have said National would govern NZ for at least the next three years, not so sure now. I wont right that senario off, but what I am sure of is, this election wont be a gimmy as Mr Keys once thought, and he knows it.

[MSTRS]

... That is exactly what the Labour did in 1984. Very little policy but a fresh new look contrasted with a tired Muldoon.


Similar situation, in that the public have basically become sick and tired of being treated like idiots, and social engineering. That the producing taxpayers pay for.

[Winston001]

I am also sick of these ads, all it shows me is that Labour has nothing to offer us in the future, and they feel their only chance to get in is to personally belittle Mr Key. It would not worry me if they were attacking the National party; I just believe they do not need to get personal. I do not recall seeing any other Ads on the box from other parties that are essentially personal attacks. I have found most of them do give you some information about the policies they want to implement.

Good point and well said. Labour appear to be the only party deliberately attacking the man, not the ball.

Whoever thought up the "Trust" campaign as their major thrust must have had rocks in his head. As Usarka said, all that's required is to mention "painting" and the "motorcade" and the trust attack comes back to bite Labour with a vengeance.

[Maffoo]

i do know Key is being irresonsible about road safety

in the ad where he promises more money for schools, he is filmed sitting in the front seat of a car, talking to th e camera in the back seat... with no seat belt on

[davereid]

...I really want rid of Uncle Helen...So National will get my vote...Maybe I should vote ACT?

I have voted like this in the past.

That is to say I have voted for something I don't really see as ideal, as a way of changing the government

Its a bit like voting to be knifed in the guts instead of stabbed in the back !

ACT will never form the government. So we are unlikely to reap the benefits of an ACT government.

But in spite of polling, I think on-the-day ACT will pass the 5% threshold by miles.

[Quasievil]

ACT will never form the government. So we are unlikely to reap the benefits of an ACT government.



Yes thats true they wont form a government but they will be part of it and in saying that will have a strong voice in there, and thats worth it.
MMP is all about comprimises and back room deals, ie, if ACT (of course they will) go in coalition with National to form a government they will do so on the basis that certain policies are brought to the table.

Im voting ACT, they are the only party with any brains in their policies

[marioc]

Key is a fcukin idiot,exactly the type of money grabbing homo you dont want running your country imo

[The Pastor]

i do know key is being irresonsible about road safety

in the ad where he promises more money for schools, he is filmed sitting in the front seat of a car, talking to th e camera in the back seat... With no seat belt on
woah!!! Hold the phone! No seatbelt! What a dick! He should be fired!

[MisterD]

Key is a fcukin idiot,exactly the type of money grabbing homo you dont want running your country imo

As opposed to the homo that's been pissing our money up the wall for the last 9 years? Getagrip.

[Finn]

I think it's about tactics. Lets face it, there are a lot of useless and simple NZers out there expecting the Government to make their lives easier rather than getting of their arses and doing something about it themselves.

My thoughts are that if National released policies that NZ REALLY needs, then there support would diminish because a lot of people just don't understand the basic fundamentals of what makes a country tick. Instead they are trying to find some middle ground but are still committed to beneficial change such as what they have said they would do in the first 100 days...

Tax cuts passed by Christmas

Appointing a Minister of Infrastructure to begin projects such as ultra high-speed broadband to 75% of homes

Introduce an RMA reform bill to reduce the costs, delays, and uncertainties in the Act

Pass into law National’s transitional relief package to offer extra assistance to Kiwis who are worst hit by redundancy

Instruct public service CEOs to begin a line by line review of departmental spending

And before the loser lefties say "yeah, sure they'll do that" may I remind you of all the failed promises and outright lies of Clark.

The country needs change.

[slimjim]

lordy...better the devil you know ..than a clown with no ballons...and i feel that keys won't last as top man..aren't strong in person...money doesn't buy mana..

[Finn]

money doesn't buy mana..

It ain't about "mana" bro, it's about policies and change. But if you're content living in a country that has slipped so far down the OECD ranking and will continue to slip under labour, then go for gold.

[ManDownUnder]

My view is that NZ needs a stronger economic base to get us through the upcoming hard times. No matter what you want to do with it (invest back into business or pass it onto those with their hands out) it has to come from somewhere.

There are only two place is can come from
1) Tomorrow. The govt borrows to do what they want and we all pay it back at some later date.
2) We earn it. This means making a few ugly decisions taking a few calculated risks and forceably tightening the belt on those that are happy to take more than they contribute.

We need someone at the helm that knows how to do the latter, has the ability to tighten the belts on those sucking the public tit dry and knows where to inject the money so NZ can leverage any benefits and actually get more productive at the micro and eventually macro level.

Put money into business - help it grow, ease a few BS/reporting/paperwork burdens and watch the benefits be realised. It's not fucken rocket science and especially in the upcoming harder econmic times we need to have someone that knows how to make money.

I looked on in amasement a while back... people outside some cheap food chain protesting demanding more pay. Of course there are 2 sides to the story but this was just after the credit crunch was announced and the global economy was going through a fucken huge shredder. They were either very brave or just plain fucken ignorant.

I know where my money is. I'm betting Labour does too.

[Pixie]

Where have all the pinkos and watermelons gone?Too depressed to argue for hag clarke and the greenies?

[James Deuce]

2) We earn it. This means making a few ugly decisions taking a few calculated risks and forceably tightening the belt on those that are happy to take more than they contribute.


That's Just BS mate. The only people who tighten their belt are people like me. People earning enough to make it from pay to pay, but not enough to get ahead. The disproportionate ethnic bias in low income stats will always make it so. They're not "ordinary people". They're a privileged underclass, used to hand outs and preferential treatment to the point of blatant race biased policies, who then spit in the face of the people willingly (at least in my case) handing over more than 50% of my pay in tax so that maybe one person might have the chance to sort themselves out and start contributing.

That's the way it has been my entire earning life. Just when I start to get ahead I end up having yet another Government fee/tax/levy deducted from my income while I HAVE to pay for medical insurance or my family just plain waits until they die to access the health system, and non-compulsory school fees somehow manage to cost around $200-$400 per term, per child.

Tax cuts are just a shitty idea that play straight into the hands of the ignorant, particularly the really pathetic ones offered by both National and Labour.

The only way to stimulate a truly Capitalist economy is to reduce the tax burden for individuals and companies below 20% of their income, which will allow people to actually cope with the realities of a system that requires you to pull your own weight.

National aren't going to reduce taxes in parallel with a reduction in both quality and quantity of Government services that always accompanies a National Government.

Labour aren't going to push the Reserve bank to get Interest rates down to the 1-5% that they need to be for NZers to recover from their unsightly addiction to debt, so that at least balance between debt and GDP can be achieved. The biggest single mistake we ALL made with the last 9 years of Labour-led Government was to ignore the bloating bureacracy. We should have been stoving in the windows of Work & Income sites. But we just sit back and take our Anal Ramming with something approaching pleasure.

Either way, those of us earning just enough to be considered rich (cough, BS, cough) are just going to get screwed, as usual.

So I can afford a Long Macchiato at morning tea every day. Big deal. I want to be able save enough to fix the fence and do up the bathroom, not borrow yet more money to bloat my Australian funded mortgage.

Just for the record, I'm a latent pinko, because National have been loudly proclaiming that they want to isolate one of my kids from ever accessing health and education. They started with Don Brash and Bill English stating that Intellectually disabled kids are going to be removed from mainstreaming (too distracting for teachers and normal future taxpayers - I agree, but for FFS bring back the short bus and the IHC schools. My kid is still a person and deserves shot at being able to look after himself one day), and specialist health services would require full payment. It's not selfish either. There's thousands of kids like my son all over NZ. Some of them work at the shitty jobs you Gen Y fuckers won't touch, like cleaner, checkout operator, and button sorter. You now what? They love their jobs. More than I appreciate mine.

Labour are no better though. You can't have a disabled kid in a school without an ESW (Underpaid teacher's aide). From next year Labour are only funding 10 hours of that ESW's time per child, per week. If my kid starts school I'm legally obligated to have him there for the school day. Guess what? I have to pay for the ESW in the afternoon. $270 per week. Makes my $30 tax cut look a bit shit, doesn't it?

[ManDownUnder]

The only people who tighten their belt are people like me. People earning enough to make it from pay to pay, but not enough to get ahead.

Me thinks you got the wrong end of that stick. I know you and I will need to tighten our belts - the thing is we know it too.

I was specifically referencing those that are comfortably living from benefit payment to benefit payment when they really should be off their X-Box bloated arses and cracking a sweat doing something - ANYTHING - to contribute to the economy at large.

My all too vague reference about tightening the belt of those happy to take more than they contribute was to cut the benefits - test the bastards more harshly and set up boots camps to kick some discipline into people (and I note one of the parties is promising - but that's by the by - I got there first!)

You and I have slightly different political bias, but I concur with the vast majority of your post.

[Winston001]

I was specifically referencing those that are comfortably living from benefit payment to benefit payment when they really should be off their X-Box bloated arses and cracking a sweat doing something - ANYTHING - to contribute to the economy at large.



I think most people would agree but in reality, social welfare benefits are not a path to wealth and leisure. The reason some people appear to have a fine time is they cram into houses and spread the costs. Works if you are young and flatting but not so good for families.

I honestly do not know what the answer is. From outside it looks as though the work ethic has been lost completely by some people. So we either teach it to them - which successive governments have tried to do for 20 years - or we make them harden up by cutting benefits to the bare bones. That might be too cruel for many NZers taste.

Boot camp, work schemes, these have their place. However we mustn't fool ourselves. Work has to be found, supervisors trained and employed, offices constructed, buses etc arranged....there is an entire lumbering bureucracy associated with these schemes. It ain't free.

[retro asian]

Gad - sprung!! :shutup:

Hmmmm........

That's not the question you should be asking - tell me this - Where is there one shred of fact, one iota of evidence in your post??..... the people of New Zealand are sick and tired of you lot and have had enough! They understand what this country needs which is less Retro Asians and more decent people on superannuation who will vote for me!! :Punk:

We are growing in numbers...

Vote WANG and get WONG free!!!!

[ManDownUnder]

I honestly do not know what the answer is. From outside it looks as though the work ethic has been lost completely by some people. So we either teach it to them - which successive governments have tried to do for 20 years - or we make them harden up by cutting benefits to the bare bones. That might be too cruel for many NZers taste.

Boot camp, work schemes, these have their place. However we mustn't fool ourselves. Work has to be found, supervisors trained and employed, offices constructed, buses etc arranged....there is an entire lumbering bureucracy associated with these schemes. It ain't free.

All good - I personally favour humane treatment of fellow kiwis, but a little motivation never hurt anyone either. Work can be found - look in the paper. If someone thinks a job is beneath them they suck it up and do it until they get a better one.

The Dole needs to be uncomfortable of necessity - and less than the minimum wage. We have supervisors already - the Army. Navy and Air Force. Herding the unruly into action would be great training for officers, and even better training for the dole bludgers.

The latter might discover a little pride in their work while they're at it

[Swoop]

Appointing a Minister of Infrastructure to begin projects such as ultra high-speed broadband to 75% of homes.
At the expense of the taxpayer, unfortunately.
All the while Tell-lie-con send profits offshore. Profits made form the infrastructure provided by the taxpayers (P&T).
Hopefully National order those bastards to reinvest some of their exhorbitant profits back into the infrastructure of the NZ broadbean system.

[Clockwork]

At the expense of the taxpayer, unfortunately.
All the while Tell-lie-con send profits offshore. Profits made form the infrastructure provided by the taxpayers (P&T).
Hopefully National order those bastards to reinvest some of their exhorbitant profits back into the infrastructure of the NZ broadbean system.

Some hope!

[Maffoo]

woah!!! Hold the phone! No seatbelt! What a dick! He should be fired!

people were calling for Helen's resignation after the speeding motorcade scandal
i dont see a difference