Lane splitting at motorway on-ramps with lights?

[Blue4]

Two questions actually:

1. Is it wrong to travel up between cars waiting at lights at motorway on ramps? Problem is when you get to the front, assuming you wait for the green light when one vehicle from each lane can go, you are taking the place of one of the cars that was already waiting there. So do you take the place of a car OR is it acceptable to travel through with two cars???

2. The transit lane at Mt. Wellington on ramp. Can bikes use this? Legally?

[The Pastor]

no and no.

infact you should never lane split.

better sell your bike actually.

also never speed.

[Ragingrob]

1. It's not wrong to travel up between cars waiting at lights at motorway onramps, but yeah it's a bitch when ya get to the front huh. I usually just take off slightly ahead or behind the guys that are up front. Cause you can't really get to the front and stop, you'll get run over... And you can't really stop behind the front cars cause you're taking a whole other car's place.

2. Safer than splitting up the middle! But seriously, what's the signage say?

[Ixion]

Two questions actually:

1. Is it wrong to travel up between cars waiting at lights at motorway on ramps? Problem is when you get to the front, assuming you wait for the green light when one vehicle from each lane can go, you are taking the place of one of the cars that was already waiting there. So do you take the place of a car OR is it acceptable to travel through with two cars???

2. The transit lane at Mt. Wellington on ramp. Can bikes use this? Legally?

For BRONZ

We discussed this with Transit.

Answer to the second (Mt Wellington priority lane) is unequivocal yes. Ditto for other priority lanes. If a cop pulls you on the Mt Wellington lane, tell him politely to suck donkey dick.

Lane splitting is a 'depends'. We asked, Transit dude said , basically , " We don't mind, we figure you're going to do it anyway, we won't set the cops on you, but if a cop sees you doing it and doesn't like it, that's down to you". So, pretty much the same as any lanesplitting.

I just split through to the front, remain in 1a then when the light goes green , full gauntlet. By the time the cars start rolling I'm way out front. If you time it right you can just roll on through as the light changes.

[PrincessBandit]

Perhaps you should ask yourself "would I do this if one of those 2 cars waiting at the red was a patrol car". I'm sure one of our resident law-enforcers can elucidate on the legality (as opposed to the practicality) of it.

[PrincessBandit]

Ah Ixion, you just beat my post in as i was hitting submit :)

[Ragingrob]

For BRONZ

We discussed this with Transit.

Answer to the second (Mt Wellington priority lane) is unequivocal yes. Ditto for other priority lanes. If a cop pulls you on the Mt Wellington lane, tell him politely to suck donkey dick.

Lane splitting is a 'depends'. We asked, Transit dude said , basically , " We don't mind, we figure you're going to do it anyway, we won't set the cops on you, but if a cop sees you doing it and doesn't like it, that's down to you". So, pretty much the same as any lanesplitting.

I just split through to the front, remain in 1a then when the light goes green , full gauntlet. By the time the cars start rolling I'm way out front. If you time it right you can just roll on through as the light changes.

Very interesting! So the Stanly st onramp just down by uni splits to two lanes with onramp lights, but there is a "truck lane", I am legally entitled to use this?

I mean, seems fair enough, I always feel stupid splitting between cars when there's an empty lane I could cruise down and be outta everyone's way :bleh:

[Ixion]

Very interesting! So the Stanly st onramp just down by uni splits to two lanes with onramp lights, but there is a "truck lane", I am legally entitled to use this?

I mean, seems fair enough, I always feel stupid splitting between cars when there's an empty lane I could cruise down and be outta everyone's way :bleh:Ah. The truck lane. That's technically different to the priority lane. The priority lane is defined in law. The truck lane is a Transit invention. Using it would be the same as lane splitting. Probably noone cares but if a cop gets shitty you can't tell him piss off I am legally entitled to use this lane (as you can on the priority lane).

[Swoop]

Perhaps you should ask yourself "would I do this if one of those 2 cars waiting at the red was a patrol car".
So the answer is obviously "yes".

Wish some of the riders would think the same when filtering on the M-way.

[vifferman]

Who cares. Those onramp lights are bollix. I make a point of ignoring them in the car, and when on the bike, I split to the front and go. If the two cars choose to also go, then that's their fault.
I think it's reprehensible that Transit (or whoever) instituted the things: they don't help congestion, just stuff it back onto urban streets. At times the motorway has really light traffic, yet the on-ramp lights are on, hindering motorists' travel. Do we really pay exorbitant road tax so Transit can make our lives more miserable? I thought it was supposed to be spent to make the roads better, not worse!

[UberRhys]

Two questions actually:

1. Is it wrong to travel up between cars waiting at lights at motorway on ramps? Problem is when you get to the front, assuming you wait for the green light when one vehicle from each lane can go, you are taking the place of one of the cars that was already waiting there. So do you take the place of a car OR is it acceptable to travel through with two cars???

2. The transit lane at Mt. Wellington on ramp. Can bikes use this? Legally?


For BRONZ

We discussed this with Transit.

Answer to the second (Mt Wellington priority lane) is unequivocal yes. Ditto for other priority lanes. If a cop pulls you on the Mt Wellington lane, tell him politely to suck donkey dick.

Lane splitting is a 'depends'. We asked, Transit dude said , basically , " We don't mind, we figure you're going to do it anyway, we won't set the cops on you, but if a cop sees you doing it and doesn't like it, that's down to you". So, pretty much the same as any lanesplitting.

I just split through to the front, remain in 1a then when the light goes green , full gauntlet. By the time the cars start rolling I'm way out front. If you time it right you can just roll on through as the light changes.


Ah. The truck lane. That's technically different to the priority lane. The priority lane is defined in law. The truck lane is a Transit invention. Using it would be the same as lane splitting. Probably noone cares but if a cop gets shitty you can't tell him piss off I am legally entitled to use this lane (as you can on the priority lane).



Excellent info Ixion. Now just got to avoid the "shirty" cops whilst splitting lanes... :devil2:

As for the Transit invention - do they really mean anything? Is this similar to the maori school bus that has a sign saying KURA (which I later found out ment school bus)? According to Transit "KURA" is an illegal sign. Here is a story (http://www.dailypost.co.nz/localnews/storydisplay.cfm?storyid=3689574&thesection=localnews&thesubsection=&thesecondsubsection=)which ran in the local paper about the confusion it has created...

[CookMySock]

Probably noone cares but if a cop gets shitty you can't tell him piss off I am legally entitled to use this lane (as you can on the priority lane).You can tell him that anyway, and he will likely blink at you and let you go, even if you KNOW that its illegal.

I had one cop stop me, and he had absolutely no idea that a GDLS exemption even existed. I told him all about it, and he frowned and let me go (I didn't have my papers on me) but my story could have been complete bullshit.


Steve

[Waxxa]

I dont even stop for those lights. I lane-split and keep going. My belief is that it is safer for me on a mbike to keep moving than stay in queue and risk some cager not paying attention (txt) and bang into me.

The T2 lanes (not priority/multi-occupant lanes) which are being introduced to our motorways are illegal for motorbikes, I believe.

[Gremlin]

The T2 lanes (not priority/multi-occupant lanes) which are being introduced to our motorways are illegal for motorbikes, I believe.
As far as I know (unless Transhit is now really splitting hairs) T2 IS a priority lane...

onramp lanes... its a priority lane, lanes on the actual motorway, pass... illegal to travel in bus lanes

[Mully]

I think it's reprehensible that Transit (or whoever) instituted the things: they don't help congestion, just stuff it back onto urban streets. At times the motorway has really light traffic, yet the on-ramp lights are on, hindering motorists' travel. Do we really pay exorbitant road tax so Transit can make our lives more miserable? I thought it was supposed to be spent to make the roads better, not worse!

I discussed this with someone not long ago. Transit are measured on the flow on the motorway, so if they stuff up the feeder roads (which they do) then they don't give a flying monkey's. That's the local council's issue.

Which is why Transit (or whatever the fuck they are called now) are in love with the bastard things.

[NC]

no and no.

infact you should never lane split.

better sell your bike actually.

also never speed.

:slap:

TL1000R for Sale

[Ragingrob]

Ah. The truck lane. That's technically different to the priority lane. The priority lane is defined in law. The truck lane is a Transit invention. Using it would be the same as lane splitting. Probably noone cares but if a cop gets shitty you can't tell him piss off I am legally entitled to use this lane (as you can on the priority lane).


As far as I know (unless Transhit is now really splitting hairs) T2 IS a priority lane...

onramp lanes... its a priority lane, lanes on the actual motorway, pass... illegal to travel in bus lanes

Hmmm will be using that onramp tomo evening, I'll have a good look to see if it says "truck only" like the "bus only" lanes on the motorway, or if it says "truck lane" like the "bus lanes" in the suburbs. Truck only would therefore follow along the lines of the motorway bus only lanes and be illegal for other auto use.

[Sam I Am]

my mate got done for lane spliting on my bike while he was going on to the motorway in town, the cop was parked up taking bike plates all right through rush hour... bastard

[OutForADuck]

Cool question and good answers, thanks guys. I always feel a little like the guy pushing in at the queue when I do this.... But hell I am the guy pushing in at the queue :whistle:

[xwhatsit]

Cool question and good answers, thanks guys. I always feel a little like the guy pushing in at the queue when I do this.... But hell I am the guy pushing in at the queue :whistle:
I don't see it like that, it's not like you hold them up. You're already halfway up the onramp by the time they've woken up, released the handbrake and found first gear. Just slowly roll down between the cars as you get near the front, as soon as the light goes green, grab a handful of throttle. Not recommended practice at normal traffic lights because of red light runners, but you don't have to worry about that with the onramps of course :bleh:

And that's how you pull a wheelie on somebody else's CB400N (er... Magua... not your bike of course :shifty:).

[vifferman]

my mate got done for lane spliting on my bike while he was going on to the motorway in town, the cop was parked up taking bike plates all right through rush hour... bastard
WTF is the point of that? How does ticketing bikes for lane-splitting aid road safety?

[CookMySock]

my mate got done for lane spliting on my bike while he was going on to the motorway in town, the cop was parked up taking bike plates all right through rush hour... bastardThis is a good example of a fine that you do not pay.

Steve

[Katman]

but my story could have been complete bullshit.


I'm surprised it wasn't.

[CookMySock]

I'm surprised it wasn't.Troll, ignore.

[nodrog]

you guys think too much, worry about it if you get pulled over.

[madbikeboy]

I dont even stop for those lights. I lane-split and keep going. My belief is that it is safer for me on a mbike to keep moving than stay in queue and risk some cager not paying attention (txt) and bang into me.

The T2 lanes (not priority/multi-occupant lanes) which are being introduced to our motorways are illegal for motorbikes, I believe.

Me too, I just roll through, and I do it assertively, I don't add to the traffic density, as a motorcyclist I reduce the traffic density. Sitting between cars is a bad idea and to be avoided. I rolled past a cop about 2 months ago, and gave him a nice little wave as I went past, no issue, I was expecting the red and blues to light up.

As for Bus lanes etc. On the Shore, you're not allowed to use them. But I use them anyhow because being physically seperated from cars means I live longer (so fuck the consequences). Occasionally I get a telling off from the cops, but if you're polite and rational about why and wherefore, they normally tell you stop doing it and little else.

You may think that it's a massive oversight, but the real reason that ARTA (not transit) force bikes off the bus lane is because of "danger" and because the real intent of ARTA is to get people into buses by force. I agree with the principle, and if you look around at a person per cage, the bus argument would have merit (assuming that they ran on time, there was parking at the bus stops, and the cost was near reasonable). When I'm overseas, I almost exclusively use public transport for CBD stuff (SF, Melbourne, Sydney, LA even) - but here, the bus system would necessitate 3 changes of bus for me. And a lotto win to pay for it.

BTW, I heard that sentiment from ARTA direct, in a previous role I worked on the SmartBus system (the neat little signs that tell you how long you need to wait).

[xwhatsit]

/BTW, I heard that sentiment from ARTA direct, in a previous role I worked on the SmartBus system (the neat little signs that tell you how long you need to wait).
/* Oh cool! How do those work? GPS within the buses broadcasting position on radio, or do they trigger something off in the signs as they go past (and the system knows which signs belong to which route)? I'm going to guess GPS as it seems to get confused when the bus has to go around a 90-degree corner before it gets to where you're waiting (i.e. measures as the crow flies).

That would've been fun to have a go at that. */

I might just go through the red now, seeing all your other evil baby killers are doing it and getting away with it.

[madbikeboy]

/* Oh cool! How do those work? GPS within the buses broadcasting position on radio, or do they trigger something off in the signs as they go past (and the system knows which signs belong to which route)? I'm going to guess GPS as it seems to get confused when the bus has to go around a 90-degree corner before it gets to where you're waiting (i.e. measures as the crow flies).

That would've been fun to have a go at that. */

I might just go through the red now, seeing all your other evil baby killers are doing it and getting away with it.

Telemetry device on each bus, plotted along a course using the Vodafone GPRS network. Can't recall if it's using GPS or gantries, think GPS. There is a lot of intelligence as the system behind uses normalising to work out what the delay time is based on traffic. The guys who came up with the system are pretty bright. I was on the Vodafone side providing network.

Don't ever run reds! Only on-ramps. So, hardly ever run Reds!

I watched an inexperienced rider accelerate to catch the lights at the end of Constellation last night, he braked really late and deep (in the center of the lane where all the buses drop diesel), then he turned into the corner at warp nine (without checking to his right to see if he was about to get nailed), and then he ran the next intersection at warp nine (forgetting about the traffic and the cops who use that intersection as the cop shop is right next to it). The halo of invincibility that youth provides, I wish I had it. Did I mention casual shoes, jeans etc?

[xwhatsit]

Don't ever run reds! Only on-ramps. So, hardly ever run Reds!
But of course. Nevertheless I'm sure they still count as `proper' reds -- hence a beating with a nightstick if you get caught I suppose.

I go through there all the time when I catch up with Miss Xwhatsit. At night, it doesn't matter how quickly you zip through there, if there's no vehicle to trigger the lights, it won't go green.

Apart from that, it could've been me. I'm an inexperienced rider, wearing normal jeans just to piss off MBB. Almost got nailed by a u-turner on Symonds St Monday too :laugh:

[PirateJafa]

Apart from that, it could've been me. I'm an inexperienced rider, wearing normal jeans just to piss off MBB. Almost got nailed by a u-turner on Symonds St Monday too :laugh:

Now now Xerxesmawhatchamacallit, there's a difference between "slow" and "inexperienced". :whistle:

[UberRhys]

you guys think too much, worry about it if you get pulled over.

Agreed.

10 characters

[slimjim]

Agreed.

10 characters

yup wait til it happen's, then despute it

[BevanPT]

From the Transit website.

What is an HOV lane and who can use them?
The �High Occupancy Vehicle� lane is a priority lane to give high occupancy vehicles (HOVs � two or more people per car), trucks and buses faster access to the motorway.

Car-pool vehicles (two or more people per car) can use this lane to bypass the signals. The benefit of the lane is to move more people rather than more cars.

The priority lane for trucks, buses and car-pool vehicles will be operating soon at the Mt Wellington and South Eastern Highway northbound on-ramps. Motorcycles can also use the priority lanes, except at Grafton Road southbound on-ramp which is a trucks only priority lane.

[BevanPT]

From the Transit website.

What is an HOV lane and who can use them?
The �High Occupancy Vehicle� lane is a priority lane to give high occupancy vehicles (HOVs � two or more people per car), trucks and buses faster access to the motorway.

Car-pool vehicles (two or more people per car) can use this lane to bypass the signals. The benefit of the lane is to move more people rather than more cars.

The priority lane for trucks, buses and car-pool vehicles will be operating soon at the Mt Wellington and South Eastern Highway northbound on-ramps. Motorcycles can also use the priority lanes, except at Grafton Road southbound on-ramp which is a trucks only priority lane.

[madbikeboy]

But of course. Nevertheless I'm sure they still count as `proper' reds -- hence a beating with a nightstick if you get caught I suppose.

I go through there all the time when I catch up with Miss Xwhatsit. At night, it doesn't matter how quickly you zip through there, if there's no vehicle to trigger the lights, it won't go green.

Apart from that, it could've been me. I'm an inexperienced rider, wearing normal jeans just to piss off MBB. Almost got nailed by a u-turner on Symonds St Monday too :laugh:

I have nothing but lov n' rspct for you xwhatsit, each person decides their own approach to destiny.

[madbikeboy]

Now now Xerxesmawhatchamacallit, there's a difference between "slow" and "inexperienced". :whistle:

"Slow" is what I am. The other day, I was riding up Parnell rise, and riding my humble scoot which has real difficulty keeping up with modern traffic and hills, when a little old lady in a zimmer frame shuffles alongside me and hits me with her cane. I was outraged, but she had a point, I was in her way and slowing her down, and she did have less time to live than me (god willing)...

[UberRhys]

Now now Xerxesmawhatchamacallit, there's a difference between "slow" and "inexperienced". :whistle:


"Slow" is what I am. The other day, I was riding up Parnell rise, and riding my humble scoot which has real difficulty keeping up with modern traffic and hills, when a little old lady in a zimmer frame shuffles alongside me and hits me with her cane. I was outraged, but she had a point, I was in her way and slowing her down, and she did have less time to live than me (god willing)...



Hahaha... you got thwacked by a gran :bash: with her cane from the reach of her zimmer frame. :gob:

Did your manhood shrink any?

[Ixion]

Hmmm will be using that onramp tomo evening, I'll have a good look to see if it says "truck only" like the "bus only" lanes on the motorway, or if it says "truck lane" like the "bus lanes" in the suburbs. Truck only would therefore follow along the lines of the motorway bus only lanes and be illegal for other auto use.

Not quite. The motorway "bus lanes" are legally speaking , the emergency stopping shoulder. The law says (can't be arsed looking up where) that it is an offence to stop on the emergency stopping shoulder , except in , duh, and emergency. Transit, with doubtful legality, but the connivance of the cops, used their bylaw regulatory power to 'exempt' buses from that law , under certain conditions.

The 'truck' lane, though , however it be signed, is another matter, and largely unknown to law. It is not an emergency shoulder. So Transit's ability to restrict it is dubious

[discotex]

As for Bus lanes etc. On the Shore, you're not allowed to use them. But I use them anyhow because being physically seperated from cars means I live longer (so fuck the consequences). Occasionally I get a telling off from the cops, but if you're polite and rational about why and wherefore, they normally tell you stop doing it and little else.

Which bus lanes? You're fully allowed to use the T3 bus lanes just not the "bus only" lanes.

Not sure why they have a distinction... Guess the "bus only" lanes are classed as feeders for the busway or something.

[marty]

my mate got done for lane spliting on my bike while he was going on to the motorway in town, the cop was parked up taking bike plates all right through rush hour... bastard

let's see it then!

[Ragingrob]

Not quite. The motorway "bus lanes" are legally speaking , the emergency stopping shoulder. The law says (can't be arsed looking up where) that it is an offence to stop on the emergency stopping shoulder , except in , duh, and emergency. Transit, with doubtful legality, but the connivance of the cops, used their bylaw regulatory power to 'exempt' buses from that law , under certain conditions.

The 'truck' lane, though , however it be signed, is another matter, and largely unknown to law. It is not an emergency shoulder. So Transit's ability to restrict it is dubious

I remember reading a thread where the consensus was if it's a 'bus lane' i.e. in town then it's not specifically excluding bikes and therefore legal, whereas the motorway signs say 'buses only', excluding everything else.

Cruised down the onramp this evening after my exam and all the signs say is 'truck lane', therefore they're not saying I can't use it, so I did. Lol.

[xwhatsit]

Cruised down the onramp this evening after my exam and all the signs say is 'truck lane', therefore they're not saying I can't use it, so I did. Lol.
You mean the Grafton one? I did a masterful piece of cop-baiting a few months ago; carrying a pillion on a 250cc motorcycle up that truck lane past a cop-car and I didn't catch anything! :shit: I do head up there most days though, past cops of two wheels and four, and I haven't been pinged yet so I'm assuming that while it may not be completely white, it is a shade of fairly lightish grey. I suppose from a policeman's point of view it's hardly the crime of the century, doesn't even look remotely dangerous like lanesplitting appears.

[madbikeboy]

Hahaha... you got thwacked by a gran :bash: with her cane from the reach of her zimmer frame. :gob:

Did your manhood shrink any?

Well, given that I have the testicular fortitude to ride a GSXR1000, even a little shrinkage would go un-noticed, and to be honest, that might lessen the gravitational pull that I seem to evoke with balls the size of small moons. Further, since I have my willy wrapped twice around my waist, people keep telling me I'm fat.

You just can't win...:crybaby:

[madbikeboy]

Which bus lanes? You're fully allowed to use the T3 bus lanes just not the "bus only" lanes.

Not sure why they have a distinction... Guess the "bus only" lanes are classed as feeders for the busway or something.

Yeah, in town, and in the civilised parts of Auckland. But on the Norf Shaw, it's different. Each council determines rules around roading in their district in regards to things like bus lanes (something called delegated legislation). Moreover, on the shore, those with the say refused usage of the nice new racetrack (I mean buslanes) to motorcycles on the grounds that nice wide open bus lanes with barriers separating cars from bikes would present unreasonable safety concerns... WTF? :shutup:

On another note, the local councils effectively pay the police to police the roads, and in return the police delivers a specific volume of dollars based on targeted areas of infringements. Does that read like a quota to anyone else??

[madbikeboy]

You mean the Grafton one? I did a masterful piece of cop-baiting a few months ago; carrying a pillion on a 250cc motorcycle up that truck lane past a cop-car and I didn't catch anything! :shit: I do head up there most days though, past cops of two wheels and four, and I haven't been pinged yet so I'm assuming that while it may not be completely white, it is a shade of fairly lightish grey. I suppose from a policeman's point of view it's hardly the crime of the century, doesn't even look remotely dangerous like lanesplitting appears.

White (album)
Lighter shades of gray.
Crime of the century.

I must be stoned, but are these all song and album references that form some sort of secret code, that once cracked, will lead me to fame, fortune, sex with hot groupies, and unfathomable success on the racetrack???

[YellowDog]

Yes, I always do it and figure that it is one of the perks of being on 2 wheels. It would be quite difficult for a cop to stop you. If they want to get nasty and start using video evidence then I guess this will men that they have solved and prevented all other crimes making bikers the new priority.

[discotex]

Yeah, in town, and in the civilised parts of Auckland. But on the Norf Shaw, it's different. Each council determines rules around roading in their district in regards to things like bus lanes (something called delegated legislation).

Seriously, T3 lanes are fully usable by bikes. You're right that the busway and the Esmond Rd style bus-lanes aren't T3 lanes and are bus only.

Should be done under the regional council so it's one rule everywhere though.

http://www.northshorecity.govt.nz/transport_and_roads/Public-transport/support.html


Bus Only lanes

These lanes can only be used by buses. In some, this applies only to certain times of the day, such as 6.30am to 9am or in the evening from 4pm to 6pm.

At other times all vehicles can use the lanes. Each lane is clearly signposted and the road surface may be painted green.

T3 Lanes

These lanes are transit lanes which can be used by buses, vehicles with three or more people in them, taxis, motorcycles and bicycles only.

T3 lanes are well signposted and have a T3 symbol painted on them.

[Swoop]

But on the Norf Shaw, it's different. Each council determines rules around roading in their district.
Superb! So not being a resident of the Northern Madness(tm), I am exempted from the silly rules!??
:2thumbsup

White (album)
Lighter shades of gray.
Crime of the century.

I must be stoned, but are these all song and album references that form some sort of secret code, that once cracked, will lead me to fame, fortune, sex with hot groupies, and unfathomable success on the racetrack???
Only if you play them backwards in the correct order...

[swbarnett]

Yeah, in town, and in the civilised parts of Auckland. But on the Norf Shaw, it's different.
Not so. The non motorway bus lanes on the shore (except the BRT) are definitely legal for motorcycle use. I was let off a ticket for using the Esmonde Rd on-ramp bus lane because it was unclear where the motorway bus lane started and the council bus lane finished.

[madbikeboy]

Not so. The non motorway bus lanes on the shore (except the BRT) are definitely legal for motorcycle use. I was let off a ticket for using the Esmonde Rd on-ramp bus lane because it was unclear where the motorway bus lane started and the council bus lane finished.

Really? Interesting. I'll give that a go then...

[swbarnett]

Really? Interesting. I'll give that a go then...
Unfortunately it won't work a second time. About a week after that they changed the signs on that bus lane to remove the confusion.