Key does a runner

[Skyryder]

Fronts up in Taurangia for a bit of electioneering, Winston shows up and Key runs away leaving his minders. What a wuss. The man is ball-less. :shake:


Skyryder

[ManDownUnder]

Me thinks that might not be the whole story - c'mon - spill...

[rodimus]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/vote08/4749946a28435.html

Seems the latest dirt is released, I don't really think it is dirt though..... Just dribble.

I also happen to think that after both leaders debates, Key has no need or interest in running off. He has his facts fine tuned, he has the full picture in his head and he truely understands the situation that this country is in. He also has no problem portraying his stance from any angle. John Key has no reason to run from anybody, he's clued up.

UPDATE

Turns out that key did not want to lower his election efforts to verbal scrapping of an unadmirable kind. Typical of a desperate man like Winnie to try desperate measure. Just because his own chances is ruined, he's trying to ruin Key's chances at the same time. What a loser Winnie.

[Fatt Max]

Saw that thing about old Winnie on the news, quality entertainment...

Shame we have to trust these pricks to run the country

[Skyryder]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/vote08/4749946a28435.html

Seems the latest dirt is released, I don't really think it is dirt though..... Just dribble.

Helen is stating it's proof the National would have sent troops to Iraq. Who cares and besides, New Zealand went to Iraq, half the country knows that the SAS went in under secrecy signed off to do so by the Labour government and signed off personally by - Helen Clark LOL!


I doubt if this is anyone from from Labour as Key claims. The fallout would be catastropohic if National Id'd the taper coming from Labour. Keys response is predictable. If you don't know the source blame someone who might...........some will believe.


But I agree if this is the best...............better off having not been taped.

Skyryder

[rodimus]

I doubt if this is anyone from from Labour as Key claims. The fallout would be catastropohic if National Id'd the taper coming from Labour. Keys response is predictable. If you don't know the source blame someone who might...........some will believe.


But I agree if this is the best...............better off having not been taped.

Skyryder

I'd bet anything it's nobody but Labour!

I bet Helen's spewing that she did the dirty on Tariana Turia and hung her out to dry previously. Now, when she needs Tariana, Tariana is hanging Helen out to dry in return! LOL - Gotta love politics and this circus of a labour party!

Big Ups to Tariana Turia!!!!

[Skyryder]

I'd bet anything it's nobody but Labour!

I bet Helen's spewing that she did the dirty on Tariana Turia and hung her out to dry previously. Now, when she needs Tariana, Tariana is hanging Helen out to dry in return! LOL - Gotta love politics and this circus of a labour party!

Big Ups to Tariana Turia!!!!

There's no love lost between those two. But Sharples got more political nouse than TT will ever have. Clark's flippancy does her no good.

Still Key would not take on Winstone in his own turf. Muldoon must be turning in his grave.


Skyryder

[Tank]

There's no love lost between those two. But Sharples got more political nouse than TT will ever have. Clark's flippancy does her no good.

Still Key would not take on Winstone in his own turf. Muldoon must be turning in his grave.


Skyryder

Not quite - he didn't want to give winnie a photo op.

To be fair - I'd do anything to avoid talking to the bastard as well.

[Skyryder]

Not quite - he didn't want to give winnie a photo op.

To be fair - I'd do anything to avoid talking to the bastard as well.


Key had a chance to take on Winnie in his own home town. No politican that has any self respect and confidence would do what Key did. Bottomline it's not the photo op that Key was afraid of it's that he would come off second best in front of the cameras. Key might be smooth talker and people pissed off with Clarke but his actions by leaving his minders to deal with Winstone says more about Key than any defeat at Winstones hand. Shit all he had to do was to carry on as normal and ignore Peters. Winstone would have made a fool of himself but Key did not even have the political nous for that.

Skyryder

[JimO]

is skyrider helun klerk in drag!!!!!

[Maha]

Ms Clark would have given Winston a dead leg and got on with the job.

[jrandom]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/vote08/4749946a28435.html

Seems the latest dirt is released, I don't really think it is dirt though..... Just dribble.

How on earth could anyone have a problem with that statement?

:blink:

I mean, it's arguably a flawed perspective, but it just sounds to me like someone thinking out loud about the situation. And, after all, Mr English is the finance man, not the foreign policy man.

Labour really are grasping desperately at straws, aren't they?

[CookMySock]

Ms Clark would have given Winston a dead leg and got on with the job.HAHAHA, yeah man.

I think it was a smart move for John to evade Winston. There is nothing to be gained entering a slinging match with Winston and plenty to be lost, and quaint concepts like facts and truth aside, have you ever seen Winston LOOSE a slinging match? I do not think so.

hahaha, dead leg.. lol

Steve

[MisterD]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/vote08/4749946a28435.html

Seems the latest dirt is released, I don't really think it is dirt though..... Just dribble.

Bear in mind the context too, this is from waaay back when Putin was driving his tanks around Georgia...Clark's being f-ing hypocritical too, considering she sent the SAS into Afganistan without a UN mandate.

The secret taper's been identified as some greenie or other (check Whaleoil for details). It's blindingly obvious labour are involved given the coincidence of the content of this tape and the "Two Johns" ads which "just happen" to be running.

[davereid]

Bear in mind the context too, this is from waaay back when Putin was driving his tanks around Georgia...Clark's being f-ing hypocritical too, considering she sent the SAS into Afganistan without a UN mandate.

Helen said she would never send troops without UN mandate and she can be trusted.

The SAS were on HOLIDAY in Afganistan and they were distributing food, and crayons at the school, and rebuilding a hospital.

You can trust Helen, cos she told me so on the telly.

[trustme]

I doubt if this is anyone from from Labour as Key claims.
Skyryder

The scary thing is you actually believe what you are writing
Who the hell else has anything to gain by doing it , the tape dovetails in with Labour's trust campaign, was it a card carrying labour party member ? possibly not , but you know full well there will be a link somewhere.
Remember the Doris who sabotaged the Key Blog , "I'm not labour" she protested , but background checks showed the link
This last tape was a total fizzer like the neutron bomb, Labour would be better finding positives to campaign on rather than attempts to smear it's opposition

I dont blame Key for dodging, if you are going to have a scrap with some one you make damn sure it is on your terms, you never let the other bloke have any form of advantage, why let Peters dictate the terms, time & place for combat,thats bullshit, look for the high ground & advantage then engage . It's why Clark has been so successful, the dabates must piss her off big time, the temerity of that upstart Noob to fight back.

[imdying]

Really, can anyone here say that they'd honestly want to share the same space with that lying coon?

[Quasievil]

Fronts up in Taurangia for a bit of electioneering, Winston shows up and Key runs away leaving his minders. What a wuss. The man is ball-less. :shake:


Skyryder

Which Politician would want to bump into Winston on the election trail ??

none, they guy is history no association is the best association when it comes to this idiot

[MisterD]

I doubt if this is anyone from from Labour as Key claims. The fallout would be catastropohic if National Id'd the taper coming from Labour. Keys response is predictable. If you don't know the source blame someone who might...........some will believe.


Cam Slater joins the dots for you Skyryder: Whaleoil (http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/?q=content/secret-taper-and-his-labour-links)

[slimjim]

boy's a chicken shit...

[Headbanger]

Key should have used the opportunity to shoot the fool down, But not doing so just makes it all a non-event, hardly worth a mention let alone a rant. Having met Winston in the past I would have taken the opportunity to avoid him as well.

That aside, Labour continue to make themselves look like tools with the release of yet another ridicules and worthless secret taping.

[JMemonic]

What are you all getting so heated up over they are all a pack of lying mongrels, Labour, National, Winston etc, they only have their best interests in mind not yours not mine, the sooner everyone wakes up to this fact and actually start to think for themselves the better.

How come in this country we don limit the term a person can sit as PM? bet none of the politicians would back that idea.

How come we the public are not entitled to subject them to a contract that sets out what they promise they will achieve and time frames?

I hate election time brings out the worst in people, step back and take a look its like a bunch of kids in a sandpit.

[trustme]

Has anybody noticed that Cullen has been pretty much MIA during the campaign. If you dont see him , you can't ask him the hard questions. He will be very carefully picking his terms of engagement with the press, where is the debate with English on the economy similar to the debate he had with Key last election. What is in the December mini budget, what aren't we being told ???

[Manxman]

How on earth could anyone have a problem with that statement?

:blink:

I mean, it's arguably a flawed perspective, but it just sounds to me like someone thinking out loud about the situation. And, after all, Mr English is the finance man, not the foreign policy man.

Labour really are grasping desperately at straws, aren't they?

Yup. Anyone who plays the man and not the ball has lost the game.

Is III still around??

[Manxman]

Has anybody noticed that Cullen has been pretty much MIA during the campaign. If you dont see him , you can't ask him the hard questions. He will be very carefully picking his terms of engagement with the press, where is the debate with English on the economy similar to the debate he had with Key last election. What is in the December mini budget, what aren't we being told ???

Dead right. As an analogy, not fronting up to the press when the financial chips are down, is no different to avoiding someone who deliberately tries to set up a situation in the street.

Cullen's excuse, is that he's working on fixing the banking system, blah, blah, blah. But you can bet yer bottom dollar that if the financials were stacking up well, he'd be in front of the camera with that Cheshire Cat grin of his...

Politics is like bringing up kids: pick your fights. Don't try and win every fight.

[Manxman]

What are you all getting so heated up over they are all a pack of lying mongrels, Labour, National, Winston etc, they only have their best interests in mind not yours not mine, the sooner everyone wakes up to this fact and actually start to think for themselves the better.

How come in this country we don limit the term a person can sit as PM? bet none of the politicians would back that idea.

How come we the public are not entitled to subject them to a contract that sets out what they promise they will achieve and time frames?

I hate election time brings out the worst in people, step back and take a look its like a bunch of kids in a sandpit.

Again, dead right. It's all about them, not us. Principles have long since ceased to exist in the world of politics.

I'd say the more switched on among us clearly understand this, but the voting choices are limited.

[CookMySock]

Key should have used the opportunity to shoot the fool down [....] Having met Winston in the past I would have taken the opportunity to avoid him as well.So you would do it yourself, or you wouldn't? The guy is damn quick with his mouth - far too quick for anyone with something to lose, to want to engage him. It would be like wearing a funny hat at a Rodney Rude show.

DB

[Headbanger]

So you would do it yourself, or you wouldn't? The guy is damn quick with his mouth - far too quick for anyone with something to lose, to want to engage him. It would be like wearing a funny hat at a Rodney Rude show.

DB

No idea, If I'm ever the head of the National party 3 days out from an election and the same situation arises I'll make a decision and then get right back to you.

[Swoop]

Has anybody noticed that Cullen has been pretty much MIA during the campaign.
Perhaps he is clearing out his office?

The retard is one person that needs to be kept away from the public.

Is III still around??
I'm guessing that he is also MIA, due to his other login... "Short_Circuit".

[Skyryder]

The scary thing is you actually believe what you are writing
Who the hell else has anything to gain by doing it , the tape dovetails in with Labour's trust campaign, was it a card carrying labour party member ? possibly not , but you know full well there will be a link somewhere.
Remember the Doris who sabotaged the Key Blog , "I'm not labour" she protested , but background checks showed the link
This last tape was a total fizzer like the neutron bomb, Labour would be better finding positives to campaign on rather than attempts to smear it's opposition

I dont blame Key for dodging, if you are going to have a scrap with some one you make damn sure it is on your terms, you never let the other bloke have any form of advantage, why let Peters dictate the terms, time & place for combat,thats bullshit, look for the high ground & advantage then engage . It's why Clark has been so successful, the dabates must piss her off big time, the temerity of that upstart Noob to fight back.


The point that those who think Labour are behind the leaks have no evidence to support their claim. Their belief is based soley on conjecture that Labour will gain from the leaks and so must be involved. One thing in politics is that there are very few secrets that do not get uncovered. My own view that this is based if not on one person then some who can be trusted to keep quet as to date no one has named etc. There may be some indavidual from the Labour Party who is culpret who knows But this is not the same as what Key and others are saying in that this a 'desperate' Labour tactic.
And by this is it Labour who are doing the planning and the leaking. Now I can understand why Key blames Clarke and Labour for this. It is a 'genuine political' defence from someone who wants to deflect any damage. But why others who have taken the same line where there is no 'political gain' from doing so is a mystery to me.


Skyryder

[Skyryder]

Dead right. As an analogy, not fronting up to the press when the financial chips are down, is no different to avoiding someone who deliberately tries to set up a situation in the street.

Cullen's excuse, is that he's working on fixing the banking system, blah, blah, blah. But you can bet yer bottom dollar that if the financials were stacking up well, he'd be in front of the camera with that Cheshire Cat grin of his...

Politics is like bringing up kids: pick your fights. Don't try and win every fight.


Yes they are and if you are going into a sitting members territory you go in prepared in the event that your paths may cross. Key did a runner pure and simple.


Skyryder

[Manxman]

Yes they are and if you are going into a sitting members territory you go in prepared in the event that your paths may cross. Key did a runner pure and simple.
Skyryder

That's your opinion. I'm sticking to mine.:niceone:

[MisterD]

The point that those who think Labour are behind the leaks have no evidence to support their claim.

You didn't read the link I posted, did you? Cam Slater (Whaleoil) has plenty of evidence that makes the link. Besides that, the "coincidence" with the "Two Johns Iraq" ad is just too cute.



Yes they are and if you are going into a sitting members territory you go in prepared in the event that your paths may cross. Key did a runner pure and simple.


The sitting member is Bob Clarkson. Winnie tried to piggy-back some publicity and JK side-stepped him. Notice how he was quite prepared to talk with Jeanette the other day...

[Mully]

Yes they are and if you are going into a sitting members territory you go in prepared in the event that your paths may cross.


Winnie is a List MP. I presume that means anyone should be prepared to spar with Winnie anywhere in the country?

[Mully]

[QUOTE=MisterD;1798020]
The sitting member is Bob Clarkson.QUOTE]

Bah, you beat me to it.

[ManDownUnder]

Winnie is a List MP. I presume that means anyone should be prepared to spar with Winnie anywhere in the country?

Yes but his best chance of keeping his job - I mean serving an electorate - is to choose one battle ground and work it to his best advantage. Tauranga is it... so there he stands. Hoping to get either back in on either the electorate or party vote.

I'll personally be happy to see him leave Parliament. He's good at playing politics, but useless at doing anything I want done.

[Scouse]

Cam Slater joins the dots for you Skyryder: Whaleoil (http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/?q=content/secret-taper-and-his-labour-links)


You didn't read the link I posted, did you? Cam Slater (Whaleoil) has plenty of evidence that makes the link. Besides that, the "coincidence" with the "Two Johns Iraq" ad is just too cute.And who is Cam Slater? Cameron Slater is the son of John Slater the former National party president, so his opinion can hardly be seen to be unbiased now can it?

[Maha]

And who is Cam Slater? He is the son of John Slater the former National party president, so his opinion can hardly be seen to be unbiased now can it?

Nothing like repeating yourself eh?
Nothing like repeating yourself eh?

Edit: Damn you!....too quick au!!!!

[MisterD]

And who is Cam Slater? Cameron Slater is the son of John Slater the former National party president, so his opinion can hardly be seen to be unbiased now can it?

What relevance does that have, we're talking about facts not opinion. All you provided there is a reason for him to do the spade work while our MSM continue to run Liarbours lines for them - look at the evidence, not the messenger.

[Scouse]

What relevance does that have, we're talking about facts not opinion. All you provided there is a reason for him to do the spade work while our MSM continue to run Liarbours lines for them - look at the evidence, not the messenger.The relevance is that there is a lot of reason for him to make the facts fit. People with an interest in something alway do make the facts fit the crime.

[Swoop]

Nice to see that the Liarbour idiot's are running scared. Cullen has been hidden in a disused office to keep that moron quiet. Ze Fuhrer still hasn't cottoned onto the fact that the slogan "about trust" has backfired in a massive way. I wonder how they ended up hiring a National supporter as the Liarbour campaign manager?:rofl:


...as to date no one has named etc. There may be some indavidual from the Labour Party who is culpret who knows...
So, you think it is a bloke called "David" then?:whistle:

[Patrick]

Still Key would not take on Winstone in his own turf. Muldoon must be turning in his grave.Skyryder

Maybe... but he was on his side back then....


Not quite - he didn't want to give winnie a photo op.

To be fair - I'd do anything to avoid talking to the bastard as well.

Pure and simple - he didn't give him that photo opertunity. Funny.


Key should have used the opportunity to shoot the fool down, But not doing so just makes it all a non-event, hardly worth a mention let alone a rant. Having met Winston in the past I would have taken the opportunity to avoid him as well.

Even his grey power cronies are deserting him in drives....


Yes they are and if you are going into a sitting members territory ...

Already corrected, I know - just surprised at that one, Skyrider..... No worries though, Winnie will be unemployed by Saturday night.

[Skyryder]

You didn't read the link I posted, did you? Cam Slater (Whaleoil) has plenty of evidence that makes the link.

I did but just saw some speculation and not evidence. Whaleoil is a biased blog that I take with a grain of salt. I would need some empirical evidence other than from a right wing blog to show that Labour are behind the tapes.


Skyrder

[trustme]

I did but just saw some speculation and not evidence. Whaleoil is a biased blog that I take with a grain of salt. I would need some empirical evidence other than from a right wing blog to show that Labour are behind the tapes.


Skyrder

Your post would have some credibility if it was not for your own totally unsubstantiated, baseless , factless rants & smearing attacks, that you present as the incontrovertable truth.

[MisterD]

I did but just saw some speculation and not evidence. Whaleoil is a biased blog that I take with a grain of salt. I would need some empirical evidence other than from a right wing blog to show that Labour are behind the tapes.


Proof that the taper is mates with the bloggers over at the Stranded, who we know are EPMU comms people...the EPMU is part of the Liarbour party and the "Two Johns - Iraq" ad just happens to run on the same night the tape is released. Yeah, not at all conclusive.

[Skyryder]

Winnie is a List MP. I presume that means anyone should be prepared to spar with Winnie anywhere in the country?

Point taken but Winstone is campaigning for Tauranga. Key was there to shore up some support for 'his' guy. Bottomline on this is that now that the SFO and the Police have no laid any charges Winstone can come up onto the high ground. The Priveledges Committe was stacked along party lines and Glenns testimony has been questioned as to its accuracy. In short Key has no ammo that's why he did a runner. As I said in an earlier post he would have been better to ignore Winstone with nonchalont indifference and made a media statement at his own time and choosing.


Skyryder

[ManDownUnder]

lines and Glenns testimony has been questioned as to its accuracy. In short Key has no ammo that's why he did a runner.

... and that was the one and only reason?
... you're sure on that?

I'd personally have done the same thing. For much the same stated reason as Key. I had the limelight, some other guy's desperate so comes over to start a fight (and share or take that limelight)... so he can get stuffed. I understand The National Candidate in Tga is basically a sure bet anyway... so why get into a fight when all it's going to do is damage to himself?

Years ago I was taught (by a 2nd or 3rd dan black belt) - the best way to win a fight is by at least 50 meters. Don't mistake prudence for cowardice

[Skyryder]

[QUOTE=Headbanger;1797586]Key should have used the opportunity to shoot the fool down, But not doing so just makes it all a non-event, hardly worth a mention let alone a rant. Having met Winston in the past I would have taken the opportunity to avoid him as well./QUOTE]


That's my point. Key had no ammo to take Winstone on. See my earlier post.


Bottomline on this is that Winstone has not been charged with anything, the Priveleges Committee with the exception of the Maori Party voted on a party bias and I could argue that even they were hedging their bets. Anderton absteined so all in all Winstone has come out of this clean. I'm not saying that he has been entirely honest but that at the end of the day he has broken no laws at least non that we know of.

Skyryder

[Skyryder]

... and that was the one and only reason?
... you're sure on that?

I'd personally have done the same thing. For much the same stated reason as Key. I had the limelight, some other guy's desperate so comes over to start a fight (and share or take that limelight)... so he can get stuffed. I understand The National Candidate in Tga is basically a sure bet anyway... so why get into a fight when all it's going to do is damage to himself?

Years ago I was taught (by a 2nd or 3rd dan black belt) - the best way to win a fight is by at least 50 meters. Don't mistake prudence for cowardice


I don't necessarly dissagree. It could be argued as you have done that Key had nothing to gain by staying. But this was not a fight and that analogy has no bearing on Key running away and that's what he did. It's not the sort of thing I expect from a politician in a election campaign. It shows signs of weakness from someone who is not prepared to stand their ground.


Skyryder

[MisterD]

the Priveleges Committee with the exception of the Maori Party voted on a party bias

Wrong. Russell Norman (Green) voted to censure. In parliament, Jim Anderton couldn't even bear to support Labour and abstained.

[MisterD]

The relevance is that there is a lot of reason for him to make the facts fit. People with an interest in something alway do make the facts fit the crime.

More coincidence! DPF has discovered (http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2008/11/what_a_coincidence.html) that our secret taper's flatmate is a Labour/Green flunky.

Perhaps we need a new concept of implausible deniability?:shifty:

Yes, I know DPF is a Nat supporter and ex-employee of the party. Does this make the electoral roll information incorrent?

[Skyryder]

Wrong. Russell Norman (Green) voted to censure. In parliament, Jim Anderton couldn't even bear to support Labour and abstained.


It's a moot point that you raise but the Greens were sitting in midfield with this as was the Maori Party.

This was before the Greens opted to go with Labour.

[Skyryder]

More coincidence! DPF has discovered (http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2008/11/what_a_coincidence.html) that our secret taper's flatmate is a Labour/Green flunky.

Perhaps we need a new concept of implausible deniability?:shifty:

Yes, I know DPF is a Nat supporter and ex-employee of the party. Does this make the electoral roll information incorrent?

It's still speculation. I see nothing here that proves what Key is saying that Clarke and Labour are behind the taping. If as is reported there is a Green connection why has not Key suggested this too along with his accuastions of Labour.

Skyryder

[MisterD]

It's a moot point that you raise but the Greens were sitting in midfield with this as was the Maori Party.

This was before the Greens opted to go with Labour.

So what you mean is: The only support that Winston had, was from his own party and Labour, who were dependent on him to prop up the government.

No quite the image you were trying to portray?

We still know for a fact that despite railing against secret trusts and big business donations for his entire career, Winston has been selling policy for cash (and helicopter rides) the whole time.

[MisterD]

It's still speculation. I see nothing here that proves what Key is saying that Clarke and Labour are behind the taping. If as is reported there is a Green connection why has not Key suggested this too along with his accuastions of Labour.


The fact that the particular attack ad was scheduled to run on the same night the tape was released is proof enough...this relationship evidence merely confirms the links.

As for the Greens, probably the same reason Labour haven't run attack ads on Rodney.

[Skyryder]

So what you mean is: The only support that Winston had, was from his own party and Labour, who were dependent on him to prop up the government.

No quite the image you were trying to portray?

We still know for a fact that despite railing against secret trusts and big business donations for his entire career, Winston has been selling policy for cash (and helicopter rides) the whole time.

That's exactly my point. The priveledges committee was on party lines Labour for, Nats ACT against, Dunn was commited to National even though he had not come out and said so, the others with the exception of Anderton went with the flow. To be fair I thought Perters he was a done turkey, still might be after Saturday. Although Parliment will be less interesting without him


As for selling policy that's an issue that will most likely cost him his seat and rightly so, but he just has not been caught doing anything illegal. And that is another matter from being shifty and decietfull.


Skyryder

[Skyryder]

The fact that the particular attack ad was scheduled to run on the same night the tape was released is proof enough...this relationship evidence merely confirms the links.

As for the Greens, probably the same reason Labour haven't run attack ads on Rodney.


No it does not. It could mean that taper had information of the night the add was being run or merely a coincidence unlikley yes but possible. This in no way constitutes proof of Labour involvement. It's still speculation based on political bias.

Skyryder

[MisterD]

Dunn was commited to National even though he had not come out and said so,

You can't say that, and on the other hand claim that the Greens were not committed to Labour - please be a teensy bit consistent.



but he just has not been caught doing anything illegal.

He's not been caught doing anything illegal, that the statute of limitations has not expired on.

I agree that Parliament will be a less interesting place without him, but anyone prepared to play the race card in the way he does, shouldn't have a seat there, and especially should not be representing the country as Foreign Minister (of all things). Matthew Hooton is right to say that NZ1st is as close as we have to a Nazi party (this thread was Godwinned already wasn't it?).

[MisterD]

No it does not. It could mean that taper had information of the night the add was being run or merely a coincidence unlikley yes but possible. This in no way constitutes proof of Labour involvement. It's still speculation based on political bias.


So your argument against Labour knowing about the tapes, is that the taper knew about the planned advertising campaign? Riiight, move along, nothing to see here!

[Skyryder]

You can't say that, and on the other hand claim that the Greens were not committed to Labour - please be a teensy bit consistent.



He's not been caught doing anything illegal, that the statute of limitations has not expired on.

I agree that Parliament will be a less interesting place without him, but anyone prepared to play the race card in the way he does, shouldn't have a seat there, and especially should not be representing the country as Foreign Minister (of all things). Matthew Hooton is right to say that NZ1st is as close as we have to a Nazi party (this thread was Godwinned already wasn't it?).


Time to agree to disagree, but with respect to Hootens comments he needs to bone up on some history if he sees any comparison with the National Socialists and New Zealand First.


Skyryder

[ManDownUnder]

I don't necessarly dissagree. It could be argued as you have done that Key had nothing to gain by staying. But this was not a fight and that analogy has no bearing on Key running away and that's what he did. It's not the sort of thing I expect from a politician in a election campaign. It shows signs of weakness from someone who is not prepared to stand their ground.


Skyryder

Winston was just grandstanding (nooo - I hear you say - he' wouldn't do that). He set a trap that wasn't walked into and now falls back on the "he ran away - ha ha ha" line. Reminds me of that kid on the Simpsons.

It was the least worst option for Key, and a diplomatic one at that. Decision making, and diplomacy are both valuable traits in a leader - no?

[Patrick]

Key was there to shore up some support for 'his' guy.

He won't be needed. I'm sure Winnie is probably going to vote for him too.... beats just wasting a vote, I suppose.......


He didn't need to. Winnie shot himself in the foot with his own ammo...[/B]

Bottomline on this is that Winstone has not been charged with anything, the Priveleges Committee with the exception of the Maori Party voted on a party bias and I could argue that even they were hedging their bets. Anderton absteined so all in all Winstone has come out of this clean. I'm not saying that he has been entirely honest but that at the end of the day he has broken no laws at least non that we know of.

Skyryder

Clean? I don't think so. Therein lies (sp) the problem... awaiting to see his farewell for now speech on Saturday...

He will be back, just not this time....

[rodimus]

I doubt if this is anyone from from Labour as Key claims. The fallout would be catastropohic if National Id'd the taper coming from Labour. Keys response is predictable. If you don't know the source blame someone who might...........some will believe.


But I agree if this is the best...............better off having not been taped.

Skyryder

Seems you were wrong! Labour was directly involved.

It was a Labour/Greens combined effort using the flatmate of a greens member to leak the information.

[Skyryder]

Seems you were wrong! Labour was directly involved.

It was a Labour/Greens combined effort using the flatmate of a greens member to leak the information.

It's a bit academic now but if Key had said Labour members, supporters etc The Nats and their supporters may have been on more solid ground with their accusations but Key said the 'Party' and by this he implies some kind of 'sanction.'


Skyryder

[JimO]

It's a bit academic now but if Key had said Labour members, supporters etc The Nats and their supporters may have been on more solid ground with their accusations but Key said the 'Party' and by this he implies some kind of 'sanction.'


Skyryder

for fucks sake give it up

[rodimus]

It's a bit academic now but if Key had said Labour members, supporters etc The Nats and their supporters may have been on more solid ground with their accusations but Key said the 'Party' and by this he implies some kind of 'sanction.'


Skyryder

I agree with the term used "Party". Because is was members of the party that decided to persue the dirty tactics to benefit their party in return.

It astonishes me that people couldn't have thought it was any one but the highly corrupt labour party. I guess that's the general indication that alot of people in New Zealand just aren't educated when it comes to polictics.

You may find this interesting: http://www.investigatemagazine.com/tgif31oct08.pdf
Especially if you're wanting to make contradictory remarks to the educated opinion.