What decides how you vote?

[The Stranger]

The other day I was having a conversation with one of my boys and I asked him who he was going to vote for. He replied that he was going to vote labour as they had the best lollies (well ok, he didn’t say lollies) for uni students.

I was aghast, why would a son of mine do such a thing, I had thought I had raised my kids better than that. I did what any right minded father should do and I gave him a well deserved beating - thank goodness there are no laws against disciplining your children.

He was making his decision based on what he could get for free from others and on what was best for him as an individual and not on what is best for us as a nation.
That to me is greed and selfishness; I didn’t raise my kids like that.

[Maha]

Sounds nothing like his ole' man!!.............:rolleyes:

I have voted for the same party in every election except one....my very first vote, which was a vote for the New Zealand Party (Bob Jones)

[Usarka]

Did you give him a smack upside the head? :bash:

[ArcherWC]

Sounds nothing like his ole' man!!.............:rolleyes:

and by ole' you meen REALLY REALLY OLD

[Maha]

and by ole' you meen REALLY REALLY OLD

Yeah, but I am going to his house on Saturday and can do without the grief....;)

[yungatart]

Well done, Noel. these little whippersnappers need beating into shape. (Haven't given anyone a slapping upside the head since hXc left...man, I miss him!)
Fancy votiing for someone based on what they will do for you...selfish in the extreme.
I would have thought you would have educated your kids better...come visit, I'll give you the beating you deserve!

[slofox]

He was making his decision based on what he could get for free from others and on what was best for him as an individual and not on what is best for us as a nation.

Just like 99% of voters in NZ do......but I share your view re greed and selfishness........

[rachprice]

Or god forbid he thinks that labour will be best for the nation

[xwhatsit]

Lol! Good on your son for thinking for himself :). He knows what's good for the nation -- less student debt and students who get to go to class instead of working four part time jobs :laugh: But anyway, he's your son, my father tells me who to vote for too, I don't listen to him either @_@

Any reason to vote is selfish at some level. Want less taxes, to be paid higher, more jobs higher up available to you. Those are all selfish things, commonly things National voters mention. Of course, some things politicians promise are better for larger numbers of people. That's one reason why I'm a evil socialist communist Lenin-licking soft-cock who will vote for Labour -- not only do I get the nice student goodies, but they are keen on this wonderful welfare state system that in my eyes I think is one of the most important parts of what NZ is. Helps everybody out. My opinion -- don't think many around here will share it.

But anyway, all reasons humans do things are selfish. That's the nature of the beast. `Love' or `hate' or any emotion or what political party you vote for or what film you choose to take your girlfriend to (choose your favourite, you get to watch the film you want; choose her favourite, you make her happy and that makes you feel good inside, dunnit?) -- it's all driven by selfishness.

[Chisanga]

Unfortunately our politicians don't present us with much that we can vote for, such as ideals, philsophies and vision. Instead we are reduced to either voting against governments we don't like or for stuff that they can offer us that we may want.

[McJim]

I will vote for a party whose policies I agree with and who presents those policies in a properly substantiated manner.

Any party campaigning by slagging off it's opponents instead of promoting itself however loses my vote.

This means I will be forced to abstain from voting yet again....

[xwhatsit]

I will vote for a party whose policies I agree with and who presents those policies in a properly substantiated manner.

Any party campaigning by slagging off it's opponents instead of promoting itself however loses my vote.

This means I will be forced to abstain from voting yet again....
Who the hell gave you citizenship anyway? :oi-grr:

Blardy cheap whiteys getting let into the country willy-nilly.

[JimO]

I will vote for a party whose policies I agree with and who presents those policies in a properly substantiated manner.

Any party campaigning by slagging off it's opponents instead of promoting itself however loses my vote.

This means I will be forced to abstain from voting yet again....

dont tell me that immigrants are allowed to vote:oi-grr:

[The Stranger]

But anyway, all reasons humans do things are selfish. That's the nature of the beast. `Love' or `hate' or any emotion or what political party you vote for or what film you choose to take your girlfriend to (choose your favourite, you get to watch the film you want; choose her favourite, you make her happy and that makes you feel good inside, dunnit?) -- it's all driven by selfishness.

Good excuse to not have to consider anyone else and continue to be a selfish prick. But hey tell yourself what you need to rest easy.


So what the fuck do they teach you at uni? Why are you arguing against me by offering an argument that supports my position?
Take your example above one way 2 people win i.e. what is best for all in this situation (or my position) they other way only one wins (your position).
Clearly being selfless is the better option for all.

[Storm]

If you dont use your chance to vote:

SHUT THE FUCK UP FOR THE NEXT THREE YEARS IF YOU DONT LIKE IT!!!

If you dont vote, you dont have the right to comment on the decsisions or composition of the elected government.

[James Deuce]

My own opinion of what constitutes "best for the country" may be completely at odds with yours. It could even be misconstrued as selfish.

Debating via idiom is never a winning proposition.

[xwhatsit]

Good excuse to not have to consider anyone else and continue to be a selfish prick. But hey tell yourself what you need to rest easy.
I could say the same about you of course -- you want your tax cuts over my mother's ability to get good hospital treatment and my (and my sister's) ability to spent time in university lectures instead of working (and having a manageable student loan by the time we graduate). But I won't, because it sounds awfully melodramatic.

EDIT: Jim2 said exactly what I couldn't quite work out how to say :D

[The Stranger]

I could say the same about you of course -- you want your tax cuts over my mother's ability to get good hospital treatment and my (and my sister's) ability to spent time in university lectures instead of working (and having a manageable student loan by the time we graduate). But I won't, because it sounds awfully melodramatic.



Damn you are thick. Where the fuck did I say that?
You assume. You know what they say - assumption is the mother of all fuck ups - though your mother may be the exception.

[Gremlin]

I fundamentally believe that when businesses prosper, the nation prospers. ie, as business does well, it earns more, flow ons include, more staff, better pay (assuming the business is a) a good one, b) doesn't want to lose its staff to the other growing businesses), pays more tax (gyah) etc.

Help the average guy, at the expense of business, well, it suffers, can't employ as many, etc. Sure, a few assumptions in there, but capitalism does fix a lot of it (competitiveness).

However... we either seem to have liars, extremists or centre-ists (new word?) so its a little hard. Will vote National, 1) wanting to stop being told what the fuck to do every minute of the day by Labour, 2) hoping to high hell it will provide somewhat of a more favourable climate for businesses to focus on doing what they do best.

[alanzs]

The cool thing is that we all CAN vote. Sure beats the alternative...

[Chisanga]

The cool thing is that we all CAN vote. Sure beats the alternative...

Celebrity Deathmatch between Key and Clark? Sounds good to me...

[MisterD]

He was making his decision based on what he could get for free from others and on what was best for him as an individual and not on what is best for us as a nation.
That to me is greed and selfishness; I didn’t raise my kids like that.

Have you actually pointed out that by time that policy comes in, he'll be out of Uni and his taxes will be paying for someone else's education? Sheesh, remember when Uni students were intelligent?

[Her_C4]

I will vote for a party whose policies I agree with ....

I found this 'interesting' http://www.pundit.co.nz/content/election-quiz :cool:

[scracha]

It's my first time in eNZed during and election. Man am a flabbergasted at the negativity and dirty campaigning methods by most of the parties.

"I can't trust you Mr Key"...I mean.. FFS.

[Skyryder]

The other day I was having a conversation with one of my boys and I asked him who he was going to vote for. He replied that he was going to vote labour as they had the best lollies (well ok, he didn’t say lollies) for uni students.

I was aghast, why would a son of mine do such a thing, I had thought I had raised my kids better than that. I did what any right minded father should do and I gave him a well deserved beating - thank goodness there are no laws against disciplining your children.

He was making his decision based on what he could get for free from others and on what was best for him as an individual and not on what is best for us as a nation.
That to me is greed and selfishness; I didn’t raise my kids like that.

Well he was being honest so ya must have instilled some values. Not like Key who lies.

Most vote on policies that will be of benifit to the indavidual that's why parties have policies at election time so you can make up your mind which one is going to be of the most benifit. Both parties tax policies is a case in point. It's sold as having more money in your pocket not as how it will effect the economy.
Some go further and look at how the policies will impact nationally but this usually involves an ideology based on the persons personal philosophy.

Skyryder

[Qkkid]

Well he was being honest so ya must have instilled some values. Not like Key who lies.

Most vote on policies that will be of benifit to the indavidual that's why parties have policies at election time so you can make up your mind which one is going to be of the most benifit. Both parties tax policies is a case in point. It's sold as having more money in your pocket not as how it will effect the economy.
Some go further and look at how the policies will impact nationally but this usually involves an ideology based on the persons personal philosophy.

Skyryder
Skyrider is obviously a Labour person "LOL"
I am sure all politicians are not up front as we would like them to be. :oi-grr:Helen spends to much time trying to find dirt on Key and it hasnt stuck and tries to say" its got nothing to do with me i know nuttting". What a fucken lie if you ask me:whistle:
I am a National voter and proud of it :Oops:
:woohoo: Time for a change

[rachprice]

.
Clearly being selfless is the better option for all.

Hmm I agree with xwhatsit, can you really call ANYTHING you do selfless?
Even charity work and the like isnt selfless, you do it because YOU feel good after you have done it, that you have made a difference
So it isnt really selfless at all...

[Qkkid]

Hmm I agree with xwhatsit, can you really call ANYTHING you do selfless?
Even charity work and the like isnt selfless, you do it because YOU feel good after you have done it, that you have made a difference
So it isnt really selfless at all...

Its called havin your say

[rachprice]

Its called havin your say

Huh? That has nothing to do with what I said

I actually commented on initial post about how his sons opinion may be different.

I agree with voting on what you think will be the best for the country
but the strangers post attacking xwhatsit for acting selfishly was rather hypocritical
when you get down to it everything we do is selfish...some things to a higher degree than others

[Manxman]

Well he was being honest so ya must have instilled some values. Not like Key who lies.
Skyryder

And Clark doesn't?:whistle:

[Qkkid]

Huh? That has nothing to do with what I said

I actually commented on initial post about how his sons opinion may be different.

I agree with voting on what you think will be the best for the country
but the strangers post attacking xwhatsit for acting selfishly was rather hypocritical
when you get down to it everything we do is selfish...some things to a higher degree than others

Sorry its got nothing to do with being selfish.
I still put it down to being part of society and having your say in a demorcratic way.
All parties have their pros and cons:niceone:

[rachprice]

Sorry its got nothing to do with being selfish.
I still put it down to being part of society and having your say in a demorcratic way.
All parties have their pros and cons:niceone:

Well maybe you think I'm disagreeing with you but I'm not, thats exactly what I think!
Obviously didn't state that too well from the start huh?

I was just saying he shouldn't be calling him selfish...but I guess a lot of people do what they shouldn't hey?

[MadDuck]

I have voted for the same party in every election except one....my very first vote, which was a vote for the New Zealand Party (Bob Jones)

Hmmm ... I spent most of my life in the Tamaki electorate. Yep home of Mr Muldoon! And what a charcter he was in real life. Never seemed any point voting for any other party.

Now the problem...I find myslef in the Rodney electorate which doesnt have Muldoon...it has Lockwood Smith :crazy:

[Lucy]

The other day I was having a conversation with one of my boys and I asked him who he was going to vote for. He replied that he was going to vote labour as they had the best lollies (well ok, he didn’t say lollies) for uni students.

I was aghast, why would a son of mine do such a thing, I had thought I had raised my kids better than that. I did what any right minded father should do and I gave him a well deserved beating - thank goodness there are no laws against disciplining your children.

He was making his decision based on what he could get for free from others and on what was best for him as an individual and not on what is best for us as a nation.
That to me is greed and selfishness; I didn’t raise my kids like that.

I vote for who/what I think will be best for the country and everyone in it. My parents were Labour voters, and being selfish was a Cardinal Sin, so it's amazing to me how nowadays Labour seems to survive by 'buying' the votes of the students and welfare recipients. (Maybe it always has, but my family were neither students OR welfare recipients). I've actually never voted for either Labour or National, as I consider it the equivalent of choosing between DB draught or Lion Brown. I prefer beer with a higher alcohol content, and better taste.

This year I still haven't decided who I will vote for.

[DougB]

Some years ago I parked my bright blue, police special, Moto Guzzi on the main street in Tauranga. Winston Peters stopped short when he saw it and commented on the beaut bike. So I would vote for him. That is as good a reason as any I can think of.

[The Stranger]

Hmm I agree with xwhatsit, can you really call ANYTHING you do selfless?
Even charity work and the like isnt selfless, you do it because YOU feel good after you have done it, that you have made a difference
So it isnt really selfless at all...

There is no way to prove beyond any doubt an answer to your question one way or the other. Any attempt to convert a disbeliever such as yourself or xwhatshit would be futile.

However, the important point is that others benefit from the selflessness also, which is better than the giver being the only beneficiary.

What you are proffering is simply an excuse to be mean spirited and shows a lack of faith in human nature. Must suck to have such a pessimistic view of people.

[rachprice]

There is no way to prove beyond any doubt an answer to your question one way or the other. Any attempt to convert a disbeliever such as yourself or xwhatshit would be futile.

However, the important point is that others benefit from the selflessness also, which is better than the giver being the only beneficiary.

What you are proffering is simply an excuse to be mean spirited and shows a lack of faith in human nature. Must suck to have such a pessimistic view of people.

Interesting.....

I'm just pointing out that you should get off your high horse and stop telling people what they do is selfish when what you do is selfish also!

I am a huge believer in the greater good, why I vote labour, we need a beneficiary system, granted its not perfect and its often taken advantage of but better we have that than nothing.
I see the merits in both parties but don't think heading towards privatising everything is the answer.
Often the people who vote for a party for what they will do for them just dont understand politics, don't understand the implications for the nation of each party being in government.

What did you say assumption is the mother of all fuck ups?

I have volunteered for search and rescue since i was 16, instead of going where I could get the money (i.e. dentistry) I chose medicine because I want to make a difference in this world.
But I dont think for one minute that I'm not a little selfish or faulted, everyone is....maybe its pessimism, maybe its realism.


Also interesting that you go straight into attack mode when xwhatsit put up a good argument, calling him dum and the like. By all means disagree, you have the right to your opinion but acting like that really just reflects badly on you.

[Yakman12]

I think you should be proud of your son for choosing to vote differently from you, it shows he has the ability to think for himself and make his own decisions without simply doing what his old man thinks is right.

too many people in this world do not think for themselves, they simply take what the authority figures say as gospel

Labour and National are so similar is scary, your son voting for labour actually shows his political leanings are very close to your own

You can never be wrong for voting for a different party, you can only have your opinion on what is the greater good

You are most likely white middle-aged, middle class male, so chances are you will vote national (assumptions yay!)

Your son is different, so allow him to have a different opinion, in fact be proud of him for having a different opinion

[Finn]

The cool thing is that we all CAN vote. Sure beats the alternative...

Like over 80% of the country wanted less Government... Labour increased it significantly, or like 80% wanted tougher sentencing... Labour went soft or like 86% of the country was against the anti smacking bill yet they passed it... or when the majority of NZers voted against Labour in the last election yet they still governed (albeit very poorly) or, or, or...

[Hemex]

Something for everyone watching the elections!! Vote for Bill and Ben:chase:!!

[Finn]

The other day I was having a conversation with one of my boys and I asked him who he was going to vote for. He replied that he was going to vote labour as they had the best lollies (well ok, he didn’t say lollies) for uni students.

As his father I think it's time you taught him a valuable life lesson. He votes for Labour effectively putting you out of pocket so this will be compensated for by charging him higher rent... assuming he still lives with you. If not, just exclude him from your will.

[vifferman]

My voting preference goes back to the '70s, when my father was really concerned with Muldoon getting in and fucking up the country, which he did.
So for years, I voted mainly for Labour. Last election, our local Labour MP was feckin useless, so I voted for the National candidate, who's been very good. Can't remember where my party vote went, but the last two times it wasn't to Labour.
I've become increasingly bemused by all the socialist programming and bullshit policies passed by the Gummint, and by the chronic waste of taxpayers money on employing bureaucrats, sycophants, overpaid 'consultants', and whatnot, while not spending it in basic areas where it's needed, e.g., spending it on health service providers, not administrators. Also, while I believe Helen Clark was a better prime minister than anyone else available, she's become too arrogant, as is usual in Noo Zilund once any gummint is in power for more'n two terms. Time to go...

As for the rest of the family, for the first time we now have the whole 5 of us able to vote . I think my wife will vote the same as me, but I dunno what the others will do, and as the middle one is refusing to vote at all: "waste of time - won't count for anything, won't change the system, too far to walk (about 500m)", the youngest might follow suit, even though it's his first time voting.

So what decides how I vote? Apart from the bollocks above (who the local candidate is, etc.), I don't think there's much to go on. Over the years, the gap between Labour and National in terms of philosophy and how that affects their policies has narrowed so much that it is just down to personalities. The scrambling around for bedmates shows that this even applies to what sort of coalition we'll get. I'd like the gummint to be a bit more right wing than I have in the past, because I think it's become too mired down in trying to control our lives (what we eat, what we do in our bedrooms, how much energy we use, what we think/do) and has lost focus on what is REALLY important for a Gummint - running the damned country properly, rather than social programming and passing stupid laws (we have TOO many already).
Ideally, I'd like whoever gets in to concentrate on financial matters, step back a bit from wanky environmental stuff (apart from doing a decent job of cleaning up pollution and recycling), and on the basics: trade, education, health, law and order, motorcycling.

[Yakman12]

As his father I think it's time you taught him a valuable life lesson. He votes for Labour effectively putting you out of pocket so this will be compensated for by charging him higher rent... assuming he still lives with you. If not, just exclude him from your will.

Nice one, good way too force the poor kid to vote a certain way, basically forcing what you think is right upon others

can you get any more fascist?

fool

you should be praising the kid for thinking for himself!

[Morcs]

every student I know is voting labour.

get jobs ffs.

Im not paying taxes so you can earn more than me because you have a pretty piece of paper, but dont actually know shit.

[The Stranger]

when what you do is selfish also!


In what way? You mean suggesting that people consider others before themselves?



I am a huge believer in the greater good, why I vote labour, we need a beneficiary system
--snip political clap trap as thread is not about which party is better--

What did you say assumption is the mother of all fuck ups?


If you are optimistic of human nature, why is it then you feel that the greater good needs to be compulsory?



I have volunteered for search and rescue since i was 16, instead of going where I could get the money (i.e. dentistry) I chose medicine because I want to make a difference in this world.
But I dont think for one minute that I'm not a little selfish or faulted, everyone is....maybe its pessimism, maybe its realism.


Oh I didn't think for a minute you are not a little selfish, indeed my assumption was that you were, then you tried to shoot me down for it, now you admit it - and women wonder why men don't understand them.




Also interesting that you go straight into attack mode when xwhatsit put up a good argument, calling him dum and the like. By all means disagree, you have the right to your opinion but acting like that really just reflects badly on you.

He put up a stupid ill-considered argument, just as you did. Then set about attempting character assassination in post #17. This is not school or daycare. Get used to it.

[Finn]

can you get any more fascist?

You make is sound like fascism is a bad thing.

[James Deuce]

This country is ready for a perfectly proportioned fascist dictator with a penchant for black bikes.

[Yakman12]

You make is sound like fascism is a bad thing.

hahahaha fair enough

if I was the fascist dictator i'm sure the country would be a great place

[The Stranger]

I think you should be proud of your son for choosing to vote differently from you, it shows he has the ability to think for himself and make his own decisions without simply doing what his old man thinks is right.

too many people in this world do not think for themselves, they simply take what the authority figures say as gospel

Labour and National are so similar is scary, your son voting for labour actually shows his political leanings are very close to your own

You can never be wrong for voting for a different party, you can only have your opinion on what is the greater good

You are most likely white middle-aged, middle class male, so chances are you will vote national (assumptions yay!)

Your son is different, so allow him to have a different opinion, in fact be proud of him for having a different opinion

Sure, you are mostly correct - except I wont be voting national.

I am very proud of him and he is of course most welcome to vote how he pleases, I wouldn't want it any other way. I would however like him to think carefully about why he is voting one way or the other and have a considered reason - other than who has the tastiest lollies at their lolly scramble.

[Yakman12]

every student I know is voting labour.

get jobs ffs.

Im not paying taxes so you can earn more than me because you have a pretty piece of paper, but dont actually know shit.

What a stupid comment, its obvious you don't value education based on how ridiculous your thinking is

education is the most important thing in this world, knowledge is power

without academia you wouldn't have all of the things in this world that make your life so easy

ignorant fool

[James Deuce]

This is NZ. Intellectuals are for burning.

[Yakman12]

This is NZ. Intellectuals are for burning.

hahaha yeah it seems like it

[Yakman12]

Sure, you are mostly correct - except I wont be voting national.

I am very proud of him and he is of course most welcome to vote how he pleases, I wouldn't want it any other way. I would however like him to think carefully about why he is voting one way or the other and have a considered reason - other than who has the tastiest lollies at their lolly scramble.

not voting national eh? act perhaps then, good stuff

[ManDownUnder]

I would however like him to think carefully about why he is voting one way or the other and have a considered reason - other than who has the tastiest lollies at their election year lolly scramble.

Words added to emphasise my view on said lolly scramble...!

As for me - I tend to look at the ills of the country, form an idea of what I'd do personally - then find those that I think hold the greatest chance of effecting those changes. Often it's a more extreme minor party than the big two (we have at the mo) because that makes the minor party more able to form a coalition with the major party more closely aligned to their policies, and deliver a parliament I want.

Right now (God bless MMP) there's a snowballs chance of anyone getting a simple majority, so I'm looking to equip the king maker I want in Govt.

[The Stranger]

What a stupid comment, its obvious you don't value education based on how ridiculous your thinking is

education is the most important thing in this world, knowledge is power

without academia you wouldn't have all of the things in this world that make your life so easy

ignorant fool


Education takes many forms, including life experiences and what you learn in your job and what you learn about survival in society. There is value in each of these.
We need the C students to employ the A students, don't knock the C students.

Knowledge is power. Define power. A common measure in todays world is wealth. Does a good education assure wealth? Can people become wealthy or acquire power without education. Ask NZ's wealthiest man, an ex panel beater from West Auckland.

All the things that make life easier.
Like traffic congestion, smog, guns, nukes etc etc.
Was life meant to be easy? Hell, we've made it so easy that everyone get's fat and has to find the time in our busy (easy) lives to exercise. A large portion of the money and time invested in the health system is to cure ills caused by making life easier.

You call Morcs and ignorant fool.
Is this a case of pot kettle black?

[Yakman12]

Education takes many forms, including life experiences and what you learn in your job and what you learn about survival in society. There is value in each of these.
We need the C students to employ the A students, don't knock the C students.

Knowledge is power. Define power. A common measure in todays world is wealth. Does a good education assure wealth? Can people become wealthy or acquire power without education. Ask NZ's wealthiest man, an ex panel beater from West Auckland.

All the things that make life easier.
Like traffic congestion, smog, guns, nukes etc etc.
Was life meant to be easy? Hell, we've made it so easy that everyone get's fat and has to find the time in our busy (easy) lives to exercise. A large portion of the money and time invested in the health system is to cure ills caused by making life easier.

You call Morcs and ignorant fool.
Is this a case of pot kettle black?

Ah yes, you do make some good points

but..

don't forget NZ's richest man had some good fortune in the purchase of his first major business (buying the government printing office) in 1990 oh and he gained an MBA from Otago University in 1987, he was a STUDENT before he was successful

He used education to better himself, to become the person he is today

Yes modern society has caused ills that modern health-care fixes, your forgetting the fact that people live longer, work less and have more time to enjoy their lives.... all because of technology.. and education

[Yakman12]

oh yeah, I also forgot the fact the world RICHEST man Warren Buffet

was also a student (columbia business school graduate)

the second richest person in the world was also a student, oh wait.... and the third! and the 4th and the 5th...

looks like education is important

[The Stranger]

oh yeah, I also forgot the fact the world RICHEST man Warren Buffet

was also a student (columbia business school graduate)

the second richest person in the world was also a student, oh wait.... and the third! and the 4th and the 5th...

looks like education is important

Your first reply was doing ok. Don't loose the plot.

We have all been students and I never argued against education, only that there are other valid perspectives beyond the narrow focus of your reply.

[Morcs]

What a stupid comment, its obvious you don't value education based on how ridiculous your thinking is

education is the most important thing in this world, knowledge is power

without academia you wouldn't have all of the things in this world that make your life so easy

ignorant fool

but we are talking about advanced education. Most people dont go uni to learn, they go to get the piece of paper that will help them walk into a decent job, and because of the way its funded and open to all, its essentially a free meal ticket.

I know some pretty dumb people who go / been to Uni. They should at least set a minimum IQ limit... otherwise its undervalued, thats why I never went.

Im 21, and never been to Uni, yet I will outclass any post grad student in my field.

[Yakman12]

but we are talking about advanced education. Most people dont go uni to learn, they go to get the piece of paper that will help them walk into a decent job, and because of the way its funded and open to all, its essentially a free meal ticket.

I know some pretty dumb people who go / been to Uni. They should at least set a minimum IQ limit... otherwise its undervalued, thats why I never went.

Im 21, and never been to Uni, yet I will outclass any post grad student in my field.

yeah you are right, i know plenty of stupid people that go to uni as well

it is still good for society them gaining *some* knowledge

apologies for calling you ignorant

[Yakman12]

Your first reply was doing ok. Don't loose the plot.

We have all been students and I never argued against education, only that there are other valid perspectives beyond the narrow focus of your reply.

haha don't get your nickers in a twist simply because I'm making a point

I'm sure you can use your brain and work out my focus is not so narrow as to believe being a student is the only way to go

I simply believe higher education is important for society

[MadDuck]

Intellectuals are for burning.

Or sending to Aussie

[The Stranger]

haha don't get your nickers in a twist simply because I'm making a point

I'm sure you can use your brain and work out my focus is not so narrow as to believe being a student is the only way to go

I simply believe higher education is important for society

Knickers are all good here thanks, don't kid yourself, you are going to have to work a lot harder than that to bunch em up.

No I wouldn't presume anything about you really, shit I don't even know you.
I simply read your post and addressed the points you raise.
However pleased to see you have softened you approach and quickly back pedalled.

[xwhatsit]

He put up a stupid ill-considered argument, just as you did. Then set about attempting character assassination in post #18. This is not school or daycare. Get used to it.
Wasn't attempting character assassination, I was just trying to say (Jim2 put it much better with less resulting fireworks) that each of us have a different idea of what's best for the country. I reckon we'll probably be better off under Labour. I'm not really going to go into why, that's not really a productive argument to have here :laugh:.

Hence you can call anybody who will be voting for somebody else `selfish', because it looks like it from your viewpoint and your policies. I know it sounds tremendously silly, but zoom out a bit and try and see things from more than just your own point of view.

I think though, that probably 8 or 9 out of 10 people will be voting for their own wallet. Regardless of who they're voting for; Maori Party, ALCP (cheaper weed, less jail time!), National, Labour, ACT, whatever.

[Bass]

They should at least set a minimum IQ limit... otherwise its undervalued, thats why I never went.

Im 21, and never been to Uni, yet I will outclass any post grad student in my field.

But it seems to me that it's you who are doing the undervaluing.
OK, I have an engineering degree and so I guess I am biassed.
Even so, I will grant you that in the long run, there is just no substitute for experience.
Despite that however, I will bet you a week's pay that it's people with that fancy bit of paper you mention, that arranged for your 600 to have somewhere in the neighbourhood of 110 h.p. (perhaps more) and that the tyres stick to the road. Further, that it's similarly qualified people who organised that your DRZ handles the rough stuff pretty well.

Stop and look around you. Yes experience MATTERS - a lot - but for every bit of technology you see that makes your life easier or longer or fun or cleaner or ..... etc etc there will be more than a sprinkling of uni grads who had a hand in its creation.

You seem to resent them when they have had a very beneficial influence on your life.

Oh, and by the way, it was said decades ago that " a country gets the government it deserves". This discussion leads inescapably to that conclusion.

[Yakman12]

But it seems to me that it's you who are doing the undervaluing.
OK, I have an engineering degree and so I guess I am biassed.
Even so, I will grant you that in the long run, there is just no substitute for experience.
Despite that however, I will bet you a week's pay that it's people with that fancy bit of paper you mention, that arranged for your 600 to have somewhere in the neighbourhood of 110 h.p. (perhaps more) and that the tyres stick to the road. Further, that it's similarly qualified people who organised that your DRZ handles the rough stuff pretty well.

Stop and look around you. Yes experience MATTERS - a lot - but for every bit of technology you see that makes your life easier or longer or fun or cleaner or ..... etc etc there will be more than a sprinkling of uni grads who had a hand in its creation.

You seem to resent them when they have had a very beneficial influence on your life.

It seems to me a large amount of people resent uni grads, particularly those around middle-age

possibly because higher education wasn't as important to people then as it is now? people didn't need to go to uni?

or is it just that NZ still likes to cut tall poppies?

[Yakman12]

Knickers are all good here thanks, don't kid yourself, you are going to have to work a lot harder than that to bunch em up.

No I wouldn't presume anything about you really, shit I don't even know you.
I simply read your post and addressed the points you raise.
However pleased to see you have softened you approach and quickly back pedalled.

its important to be flexible enough to accept different points of view

I'll back peddle if i learn new information that makes me see things differently

if i didn't, i would be a pig-headed fool

[The Lone Rider]

I always pick the candidates with the nicest knockers...


Nah. I don't vote.

As GB said to me last night, it's his right to vote and he will do it!

As I replied, its my right to spend my life wanking obssessively, but I don't do it.

[The Stranger]

Wasn't attempting character assassination, I was just trying to say (Jim2 put it much better with less resulting fireworks) that each of us have a different idea of what's best for the country. I reckon we'll probably be better off under Labour. I'm not really going to go into why, that's not really a productive argument to have here :laugh:.

Hence you can call anybody who will be voting for somebody else `selfish', because it looks like it from your viewpoint and your policies. I know it sounds tremendously silly, but zoom out a bit and try and see things from more than just your own point of view.

I think though, that probably 8 or 9 out of 10 people will be voting for their own wallet. Regardless of who they're voting for; Maori Party, ALCP (cheaper weed, less jail time!), National, Labour, ACT, whatever.

Well thank you.
Sure we will all have a different idea of what is best for the country, we are all different and that's as it should be, hence we have elections. Fortunate too, your idea may be correct and mine wrong.

Voting for whom you believe to be the best for the country is not at all selfish and I wouldn't dare to suggest that simply because I don't agree with who you vote for you are selfish.

I would however call you selfish - and short sighted if you simply voted based on what's best for you, without regard for the country (and it's citizens) as a whole.

As to your "tremendously silly" suggestion. That is exactly what I suggested we all should do. Zoom out and look at things from more than just your point of view.

You may well be correct the largest number will probably will vote for/with their wallet and in doing so will ensure that they are disapointed in time for next election and no doubt repeat the cycle agian and again all the while wondering why our lot never gets any better.
But that's for those that don't know any better isn't it, wont happen to you and I.

[Bass]

He put up a stupid ill-considered argument, just as you did. Then set about attempting character assassination in post #18. This is not school or daycare. Get used to it.


I know it's late in the day to be bringing this up, but actually.........post #18 was yours

[The Stranger]

if i didn't, i would be a pig-headed fool

Now see, that's exactly why I didn't want to presume to know what you were thinking isn't it. I may have got the wrong impression of you.

[The Stranger]

I know it's late in the day to be bringing this up, but actually.........post #18 was yours

BWAHAHAHA, you are quite correct.
Sorry I tend to enjoy a good debate a little too much.
Should have been 17. I shall correct it.

[Qkkid]

Now see, that's exactly why I didn't want to presume to know what you were thinking isn't it. I may have got the wrong impression of you.

:lol:Well fuck me not another apology its starting to make me quite sick:rolleyes:

[The Stranger]

:lol:Well fuck me not another apology its starting to make me quite sick:rolleyes:

Sorry Steve.

[The Pastor]

The other day I was having a conversation with one of my boys and I asked him who he was going to vote for. He replied that he was going to vote labour as they had the best lollies (well ok, he didn’t say lollies) for uni students.

I was aghast, why would a son of mine do such a thing, I had thought I had raised my kids better than that. I did what any right minded father should do and I gave him a well deserved beating - thank goodness there are no laws against disciplining your children.

He was making his decision based on what he could get for free from others and on what was best for him as an individual and not on what is best for us as a nation.
That to me is greed and selfishness; I didn’t raise my kids like that.
did you teach him a lesson with your fists?

[Skyryder]

Wasn't attempting character assassination, I was just trying to say (Jim2 put it much better with less resulting fireworks) that each of us have a different idea of what's best for the country. I reckon we'll probably be better off under Labour. I'm not really going to go into why, that's not really a productive argument to have here :laugh:.


I'm of much the same opinion. Overall I believe the majority of Kiwis will be 'personally better off with Labour than the Nats. Unfortunately the opposition has been able to manage several sideshows that have focused on the negitive to such an extent that many now believe the lies that both the Nats, Act and the Christian Right have perpertrated against Labour and the Greens as being true. Most of this has been covered in other threads so I'm not going to delve into this any further for exactly the same reason that you have given.

I think at the end of the day most of us will see as what is best for the indavidual as is best for the country and will vote accordingly. Whatever way the voters vote MMP is the system that is in place. I wish you all well come what may and look forward to the inevitalbe threads of post election comments.


Skyryder