Sir said OK to this

[Shaun]

-------Original Message------- From: Andrew StroudDate: 08/14/08 16:33:04To: paul.s@hondamotorcycles.co.nzCc: ceo@mnz.co.nzSubject: Superbike tyre costs Hi Paul/s, I'd just like to put forward the following idea regarding some control on tyre usage to help reduce costs; Last season I used plenty of tyres. Especially if I was looking for the best compound, I could go through 8 - 10 tyres in a single meeting.I get a very good deal on tyres but I can see how it can be tough for the guys who don't. Control idea;- 2 sets max - for Qualifying and both races.- Mark tyres before qualifying season.- These marked tyres must be used also in the first race. ( First race slight shorter - maybe 15mins in duration)- Tyres can be changed for the second race which is a little longer in duration - ( maybe 20mins) This also saves you needing to check for qualifying tyres. This system is used in the Australian 600 Supersport Nationals. Riders tend to do a minimal number of laps in qualifying in order to save their tyres for the first race. Best regards

More to come:gob:

[Shaun]

Tyres‏
From: Andrew Stroud
Sent: Thursday, 6 November 2008 3:57:39 p.m.
To: ttproduction1@msn.com

1 attachment(s)
faint_gra...jpg (1.1 KB)

I also am a fan of using street legal tyres in the future as they are still fine for street riders and way to recover some tyre costs.


:jerry:

[Shaun]

Tyres‏
From: Andrew Stroud
Sent: Thursday, 6 November 2008 4:53:46 p.m.
To: ttproduction1@msn.com

1 attachment(s)
faint_gra...jpg (1.1 KB)

Re what Ryan mentioned; Really I wouldn't have a problem with that idea either as long as we had tyres that didn't tear up.
When it's an endurance race you make a set of tyres do at least an hour. That equates to Qualifying, Race1 & Race 2. What's the difference?

[Shaun]

Tyres‏
From: Andrew Stroud
Sent: Thursday, 6 November 2008 4:58:33 p.m.
To: ttproduction1@msn.com

1 attachment(s)
faint_gra...jpg (1.1 KB)

One set for Qualifying and both races would work if we had control tyres that were the harder compounds.
E.g.. People don't generally use SC2 front Pirelli's but through my experience they grip really well and last for ages.

[Shaun]

Read it ALL! Then make ya post please:2guns:

Andrew agreed for me to post these emails he has sent places to awnser questions as well as give very experienced input into this mind ---- YANK!:Offtopic:

We all have our thoughts and opinions, but FACT is, Ha Ha Ha ( Exscuse me please whilst I play a little) I have been! I have done! OOOOO, and So has Andrew:bleh:

PLEASE:stupid:

Tell us why we are wrong

We love what we do, and will do what we can to help it grow.:soon:

[CHOPPA]

Im no expert all i know is tyres are bloody expensive and if you guys find some way to reduce the costs im all for it. i dont care what i ride on to be honest if everyone else is on the same.

[Shaun]

Im no expert all i know is tyres are bloody expensive and if you guys find some way to reduce the costs im all for it. i dont care what i ride on to be honest if everyone else is on the same.



But YOU R good mate. Your out side approach and so on, is great, really enthusiastic, that is why you come across and ride so well dude, you are Focused! and obviously love doing what you do, or you would NOT be as committed as you are.

Keep your input going here on KB mate, it is great for me alone? to read some thing from a nutter of Kind?

[Shaun P]

I agree with the Pirelli sc2 advice as well, as Andrew told me the same thing! When he told me it made sense 'If the sc 2 gives you 2-3 % more grip than the sc 0, it wont matter when the sc 0 tyre loses 20% grip from tearing over a time period'
Saying that though I agree in reducing the number of available tyres but not having a road based tyre in superbike but maybe in 1000cc category without engine upgrades like Superstock.
Dont know if control tyres are the answer now either but certainly reducing amount would make the harder compounds more desireable.

[speedracerjimmy]

i think the 600 class should get two sets,that have to do the qualifier and two races.As andrew said they do it in oz.It would cut the cost of one rear a weekend which is a good saving over 5 rounds.It would make qualifying more fun aswell

[ArcherWC]

I agree with Choppa, tyres are the BIGGEST single cost when running a superbike. I would be very keen to see this reduced as much as possible.

I also think Shaun P is on the money with a more superstock style F1, ie you cant do anything to engine internals, but do what you like externally and with suspension, this would also even the palying field considerably both cost wise and performance wise
An example for me, is if I run the WSB kit in my bike, I get plenty of HP, thus making the bike competative, but I have to rebuild it every 10-15 hours which is just way beyond my budget, and before anyone starts wanking on about HP not being required, try racing a SB at Puke and see what happens to ya down the back straight when you dont have it

both of these things would in the very medium term make for bigger fields and much more exciting racing

[Shaun]

i think the 600 class should get two sets,that have to do the qualifier and two races.As andrew said they do it in oz.It would cut the cost of one rear a weekend which is a good saving over 5 rounds.It would make qualifying more fun aswell




Good on ya Jimmy, thanks for your thoughts mate.

[codgyoleracer]

Good to see Andrew putting pen to paper, - if he can put this argument forward using Pirellis - then for sure it is possible with at least two other brands that have as least as good (if not better) durability than the Pirellis.
Glen W

[Shaun]

Good to see Andrew putting pen to paper, - if he can put this argument forward using Pirellis - then for sure it is possible with at least two other brands that have as least as good (if not better) durability than the Pirellis.
Glen W




Wells said Glen. What I copied onto here, are emails sent to MNZ etc from Andrew, with his opinion on how things could be

[Robert Taylor]

Good to see Andrew putting pen to paper, - if he can put this argument forward using Pirellis - then for sure it is possible with at least two other brands that have as least as good (if not better) durability than the Pirellis.
Glen W

It is also not so well known that a lot of the variable performance of certain brands of tyres ( AND widely variable life ) is because of the inconsistency of quality. How many tyres that come in are ''special price'' runouts, ''old'' tyres, second string etc that are a special price to the distributor.

There is a very dark side to a lot of this that racers need to be very aware of. We should demand and expect better. And tighter controls would need to go hand in hand with much improved consistency. Are you getting the same tyre you had last week?

Food for thought, ask questions..........

[Shaun]

It is also not so well known that a lot of the variable performance of certain brands of tyres ( AND widely variable life ) is because of the inconsistency of quality. How many tyres that come in are ''special price'' runouts, ''old'' tyres, second string etc that are a special price to the distributor.

There is a very dark side to a lot of this that racers need to be very aware of. We should demand and expect better. And tighter controls would need to go hand in hand with much improved consistency. Are you getting the same tyre you had last week?

Food for thought, ask questions..........


Dead write, always check the manufacture date of the build of the tyre

[Pussy]

Is it worth bringing to everyones attention where the manufacture date is? For instance, on road tyres (and car tyres) there is a four number stamp. The first two numbers are the week (out of 52) and the last two are the year.
E.g a stamp of "2606" means the 26th week of 2006
Most people probably know this, but some might not

[wharfy]

Is it worth bringing to everyones attention where the manufacture date is? For instance, on road tyres (and car tyres) there is a four number stamp. The first two numbers are the week (out of 52) and the last two are the year.
E.g a stamp of "2606" means the 26th week of 2006
Most people probably know this, but some might not

Well I didn't know - until now, thanks

[Pussy]

Here's an example: this tyre was manufactured in the 37th week of 2006

[Quasievil]

Not wanting to take this EXCELLENT thread off topic, but how old is a tyre before its to old, ie a 06 tyre okay to race on?

PS nice one Shaun n Andrew.:2thumbsup

[Shaun]

Is it worth bringing to everyones attention where the manufacture date is? For instance, on road tyres (and car tyres) there is a four number stamp. The first two numbers are the week (out of 52) and the last two are the year.
E.g a stamp of "2606" means the 26th week of 2006
Most people probably know this, but some might not


well done, I forgot to add that Thanks

[Shaun]

Not wanting to take this EXCELLENT thread off topic, but how old is a tyre before its to old, ie a 06 tyre okay to race on?

PS nice one Shaun n Andrew.:2thumbsup



4 some one who is realy trying YES YES TO OLD!

They alter as temp alters, the best place to keep a tyre, is on CONCRETE due to heat Not changing all the time as much as up in a loft or some where else!

Conti and Pirelli are the best most reliable new NEW trye in this country, unless you import Dunlop from the UK or Know a good man in Austraalia who will send you NEW tyres as such

Take a lok at michelins on peples bike, and check out the date:bash:

[hayd3n]

sell wofable one 2 me

[wharfy]

Tyres‏
From: Andrew Stroud
Sent: Thursday, 6 November 2008 3:57:39 p.m.
To: ttproduction1@msn.com

1 attachment(s)
faint_gra...jpg (1.1 KB)

I also am a fan of using street legal tyres in the future as they are still fine for street riders and way to recover some tyre costs.


:jerry:


Um.. does this mean, use street legal tyres for a race meeting then sell them and/or use them on a street bike ?

[scrivy]

Um.. does this mean, use street legal tyres for a race meeting then sell them and/or use them on a street bike ?

I hope so..... :clap:

[AllanB]

Sell them on Trademe - lots of posers will buy them :girlfight:

Ralph: "hey Ben, man you've scrubbed in those tyres"
Ben: "nah mate I get my man Andrew to do the scrubbing in for me"
Ralph: "cool, know him well do you...."

Note: any resemblance to anyone living or deceased is purely coincidental.

[hayd3n]

easier if you put them on kb

[Robert Taylor]

I agree with Choppa, tyres are the BIGGEST single cost when running a superbike. I would be very keen to see this reduced as much as possible.

I also think Shaun P is on the money with a more superstock style F1, ie you cant do anything to engine internals, but do what you like externally and with suspension, this would also even the palying field considerably both cost wise and performance wise
An example for me, is if I run the WSB kit in my bike, I get plenty of HP, thus making the bike competative, but I have to rebuild it every 10-15 hours which is just way beyond my budget, and before anyone starts wanking on about HP not being required, try racing a SB at Puke and see what happens to ya down the back straight when you dont have it

both of these things would in the very medium term make for bigger fields and much more exciting racing


Yes, there is merit in that

[Robert Taylor]

Um.. does this mean, use street legal tyres for a race meeting then sell them and/or use them on a street bike ?

Hardly fair to the retail tyre industry though is it?

[Robert Taylor]

well done, I forgot to add that Thanks

Cripes, Ive started something here and better watch my back. In several cases I see that desire for profit over-rides the implications of selling stock ''past its use by date''

[Robert Taylor]

I should clarify that my most immediate last post was referring to old tyres, highlighted by Shaun and Pussy

[JayRacer37]

Are you getting the same tyre you had last week?


Yep! :laugh: :stupid: :eek:

[Mishy]

''special price'' runouts, ''old'' tyres, second string etc that are a special price to the distributor.

There is a very dark side to a lot of this that racers need to be very aware of. We should demand and expect better. And tighter controls would need to go hand in hand with much improved consistency. Are you getting the same tyre you had last week?.

yes, and It's a well know fact that at least one major tyre supplier makes several slightly differing batches for different supply. What Andrew Stroud, or the Italian or Spanish race teams use may not be the same as is offered for you to buy. It's not just age you have to consider . . . . .

[roadracingoldfart]

Hardly fair to the retail tyre industry though is it?


To the RETAIL tyre industry , yes it may, but the practice of selling half used tyres is an age old practice and even if the racer is getting a very good deal from the tyre supplier , the margin for that supplier is already established and as such acceptable.
If you sell half used tyres to a road rider it may just get some of the poor people riding on better rubber that they could normally afford and then with the level of grip they get out of the sticky race compounds it will get foks coming to you for suspenssion work on thier road bikes ... lol.:confused:

[Mishy]

To the RETAIL tyre industry , yes it may, but the practice of selling half used tyres is an age old practice and even if the racer is getting a very good deal from the tyre supplier , the margin for that supplier is already established and as such acceptable.
If you sell half used tyres to a road rider it may just get some of the poor people riding on better rubber that they could normally afford and then with the level of grip they get out of the sticky race compounds it will get foks coming to you for suspenssion work on thier road bikes ... lol.:confused:

It never seems to work like that though . . . . . Most guys doing nationals get the HELL deal on price, and the tyres thay buy are TOTALLY unsuitable for road use. All it ends up doing is passing on a set of unsuitable tyres to someone who would be better off paying for something that works better for them, and thereby removing the chance for the wholesaler to actually get something back for his efforts to promote the product by discounting them to racers. It can also give people the wrong idea about the product if they get an ex race tyre that didn't feel or wear any good.

[gixerracer]

-------Original Message------- From: Andrew StroudDate: 08/14/08 16:33:04To: paul.s@hondamotorcycles.co.nzCc: ceo@mnz.co.nzSubject: Superbike tyre costs Hi Paul/s, I'd just like to put forward the following idea regarding some control on tyre usage to help reduce costs; Last season I used plenty of tyres. Especially if I was looking for the best compound, I could go through 8 - 10 tyres in a single meeting.I get a very good deal on tyres but I can see how it can be tough for the guys who don't. Control idea;- 2 sets max - for Qualifying and both races.- Mark tyres before qualifying season.- These marked tyres must be used also in the first race. ( First race slight shorter - maybe 15mins in duration)- Tyres can be changed for the second race which is a little longer in duration - ( maybe 20mins) This also saves you needing to check for qualifying tyres. This system is used in the Australian 600 Supersport Nationals. Riders tend to do a minimal number of laps in qualifying in order to save their tyres for the first race. Best regards

More to come:gob:
We need a premier class and it is not cheap to run a superbike so someone like our MNZ people should be spending more time and effort to get our sport in the public eye so we can actualy raise some really sponsorship funds and do this thing right.
The tyre Idea would maybe work for 6hundys but what they havent mentioned is that all the teams in OZ go to each track two weeks before each event and do a solid 2 days testing even the good privaters are there so when they get to the propper meeting they can get away with limited track time.
They also have unlimited tyre consumption on the friday and Sbk in OZ can use as many tyres as they chose plus they use Q,s for a hot lap. It aint cheap it will never be cheap lets go forward not back in time 10 years:niceone:

[slowpoke]

We need a premier class and it is not cheap to run a superbike so someone like our MNZ people should be spending more time and effort to get our sport in the public eye so we can actualy raise some really sponsorship funds and do this thing right.
The tyre Idea would maybe work for 6hundys but what they havent mentioned is that all the teams in OZ go to each track two weeks before each event and do a solid 2 days testing even the good privaters are there so when they get to the propper meeting they can get away with limited track time.
They also have unlimited tyre consumption on the friday and Sbk in OZ can use as many tyres as they chose plus they use Q,s for a hot lap. It aint cheap it will never be cheap lets go forward not back in time 10 years:niceone:

Too true mate.

What looks simple from the outside isn't as cut and dried when people start to look for an edge. Apart from limiting testing, which also limits rider development, there doesn't seem to be a way of seriously limiting the tyre bill. Actual race weekend is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to controlling costs as most of the money is spent well before then.

I reckon you are absolutely on the money (excuse the lousy pun) when to comes to MNZ (or an outside agency) promoting the sport and getting sponsors more value for their dollar. I can't remember ever seeing a bike event promoted outside of a bike shop window, let alone in/on any mainstream media. Bike racing is a great spectacle, and would take fuck all to spark some real interest.

[steveyb]

Too true mate.

What looks simple from the outside isn't as cut and dried when people start to look for an edge. Apart from limiting testing, which also limits rider development, there doesn't seem to be a way of seriously limiting the tyre bill. Actual race weekend is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to controlling costs as most of the money is spent well before then.

I reckon you are absolutely on the money (excuse the lousy pun) when to comes to MNZ (or an outside agency) promoting the sport and getting sponsors more value for their dollar. I can't remember ever seeing a bike event promoted outside of a bike shop window, let alone in/on any mainstream media. Bike racing is a great spectacle, and would take fuck all to spark some real interest.


Agree with the sentiments expressed above, but just to clarify, the NZSBK was advertised on TV last summer and the ads were pretty nice. I am guessing that they came via MNZ/Castrol support.

Cheers

[wharfy]

What makes Wanganui and Paeroa so Popular ? Thousands of people pay to attend these meetings, is it just because they can stand close enough to feel the draft of the bikes or the prospect of a spill being more dangerous for the rider ?

MNZ should do a customer survey this year, Ask the punters (early before they get pissed)
a) What makes Wanganui/Paeroa attractive
c) do they attend other bike events - (which ones and why)
and a few other question that I don't have a clue about 'cause I am in IT not marketing :)

See if they can figure out what the attraction is and if it can be applied to other meetings.

If it is standing close enough to feel the draft they might not be able to supply it at circuits
If it is just drinking piss in the sun maybe they can.
If it is perceived danger maybe they could hire a stunt rider to lay a bike down in turn one and wait for the ambulance to take them away with lots of sirens and stuff at each meeting ?

[scrivy]

If it is perceived danger maybe they could hire a stunt rider to lay a bike down in turn one and wait for the ambulance to take them away with lots of sirens and stuff at each meeting ?

So...... who's gunna be the sacrificial pilot????

Maybe if sidecar passengers fell off more??? :whistle:
Bob what you say??? :dodge:

[wharfy]

So...... who's gunna be the sacrificial pilot????

Maybe if sidecar passengers fell off more??? :whistle:
Bob what you say??? :dodge:

Oww... I saw that at Wanga's , it looked worse for the driver when he went into the hay bales.
Maybe it could work, titanium sliders on the passengers bum so there are lots of sparks :)

[scrivy]

Oww... I saw that at Wanga's , it looked worse for the driver when he went into the hay bales.
Maybe it could work, titanium sliders on the passengers bum so there are lots of sparks :)

Why bother - they're dispensible........... :pinch::whistle::yes:


NOT!!

What about more along the lines of stockcars?? Seen that before too!!

[wharfy]

Why bother - they're dispensible........... :pinch::whistle::yes:


NOT!!

What about more along the lines of stockcars?? Seen that before too!!

The massive pile up of v8's at Puke got plenty of TV news time, to bad the media (and public as well I guess) are more interested in the mayhem than skill, like watching rugby in case there is a punch up (which will get TV time as well).

Hmmm...maybe they could stage a brawl between pit crews, or Andrew Stroud could become the "Bad boy" of NZ motorcycling and act like a bastard so people will watch to see him get beaten (or a beating) - The nationals could become the new WWF !!
Oh I'm on a roll now .. how about tyre shreaders as in Ben Hur !!!

[Robert Taylor]

Agree with the sentiments expressed above, but just to clarify, the NZSBK was advertised on TV last summer and the ads were pretty nice. I am guessing that they came via MNZ/Castrol support.

Cheers

Thanks to Craig ( exGixxerracer ) SteveYB and Slowpoke for some well reasoned arguments / perspective. The sport needs selling, not excessive dumbing down. We are entering a new period of aspiration rather than envy.
And to Mishy for the cold hard truth about the real effect of onsale of ex race tyres. The reality is the wholesalers and retailers actually dont get that plausible a return from the race tyre sales. If all the tyres had to be returned and accounted for that would make it all more orderly.

[scracha]

4 some one who is realy trying YES YES TO OLD!
They alter as temp alters, the best place to keep a tyre, is on CONCRETE due to heat Not changing all the time as much as up in a loft or some where else!


Thanks Shaun. I'd asked a month or so ago about how best to store wets and how long they'd last in storage.