So we got a new Government, and a new Leader

[Bren]

Oh well, the election is all but over, and National have won...Personally I am glad that Rodney Hyde got in as well, and also glad to see Peter Dunne and Jim Anderton kept their seats...them small parties should keep the big boys at least partially honest...The Greens, fuck em...the only good green shit aint in a political party...it's in a POT PARTY!...Winston lucked out...oh well mate, was nice knowing ya....NOT!

Anyway all and all I am happy with the new bunch of assholes who are going to be running the country....but at the end of the day they are all painted with the same brush....Thats my opinion anyways...!!!

Hail to the new Leader...Move over Auntie Helen :Punk:

[cowboyz]

I will expect to see life get a whole lot easier for a short while, while national prove a point. then the shitist will hitist the fanist.

might as well enjoy it while it lasts.

[The Buzz]

Auntie Helen has just resigned, the world has become a better place!

[1 Free Man]

Oh well, the election is all but over, and National have won...Personally I am glad that Rodney Hyde got in as well, and also glad to see Peter Dunne and Jim Anderton kept their seats...Winston lucked out...oh well mate, was nice knowing ya....NOT!

Anyway all and all I am happy with the new bunch of assholes who are going to be running the country....but at the end of the day they are all painted with the same brush....Thats my opinion anyways...!!!

Hail to the new Leader...Move over Auntie Helen :Punk:
Yep we've gone from RED cheats and liars to blue Cheats and liars so whats changed???:argh:

[Bren]

Yep we've gone from RED cheats and liars to blue Cheats and liars so whats changed???:argh:...

...But no big ugly BLACK cheat and liar....(not being racist here but NZF colour is black!)

He might have to go on the dole now....Winston...Unemployed!!!!

[FJRider]

...

...But no big ugly BLACK cheat and liar....(not being racist here but NZF colour is black!)

He might have to go on the dole now....Winston...Unemployed!!!!

He might look for a job in the Immigration Dept... running it... ??? mmmmmmm :shit::shit::shit:

[imne1]

if ugly auntie helen had stepped down 6 months ago we'd still have a nice sensible labour govt instead of national who will sell everything off by lunchtime. people were just sick of her face, not labour's policies.

[James Deuce]

Peter Dunne couldn't keep a roll of bog paper honest.

[Skyryder]

Not entirely unexpected other than the Maori Party not figuring as expected. Seats don't suggest a long term Govt. With a new Labour leader combined with a drop of a couple of Nat seats along with ACT, and Labour could be back '12.



Skyryder

[The Buzz]

If this election was back in the days of FFP - National would have demolished Labour - 41 National vs 21 Labour

[James Deuce]

If this election was back in the days of FFP - National would have demolished Labour - 41 National vs 21 Labour

Apples and oranges.

Electorate boundaries and numbers of seats were completely different.

[SARGE]

everything worldwide is run by the Masons and bankers anyway.. they just give you the illusion of choice..

Helen v. John
Obama v. McCain
Communism v. Capitalism
Coke v. Pepsi..


samey same..


wars are financed by the world banks at huge interest rates..economic collapses are artificially created so the rich can buy up at fire sale prices..they feed the sheeple with Brittany, whack-ass reality TV, Sports spectaculars and mindless "talent" shows..drop the little spuds in indoctrination centers till they're 18 to teach them how to be mindless Illuminati drones for the rest of their lives...

the Euro, NAFTA, Kyoto,the UN..all firing us down the barrel to the NWO


all is going to plan.. Soylent Green is people

[scumdog]

Meh, whatever happens we don't have to put up with the visage of tha ugly frikin liar of a bitch any more----wooo-fukkin-hoo, life is good right now.

[RØKSTA]

YEE HA Ditch The Bitch party's really worked!YES! Go John!

I think you know your a kiwi when you see a whole heap of drunk people outside John Key's house shouting 'Johnny, Johnny, Johnny!'...ahh classic.

[Dafe]

YEEHAH - MY 9 YEARS OF RUNNING DOWN LABOUR HAVE BEEN ANSWERED!!!

WELL DONE NEW ZEALAND!!!

Oops! Thats right, I've left the site............

Good Riddens Helen, RIDE SAFE KB'ers!!!

[rodimus]

Finally, I can work a second job and get ahead!

About Farking time!

[The Buzz]

Apples and oranges.

Electorate boundaries and numbers of seats were completely different.

Agree, it is an interesting point though, the 45% of National party votes vs 58.6% electorate for National - really proves what MMP has brought to our country

[SARGE]

Oops! Thats right, I've left the site............



shit..me too..:stupid::doh::Oops:

[James Deuce]

Muldoon won two elections with less then 45% of the vote. FPP doesn't work how you think it does.

[Brian d marge]

Yep we've gone from RED cheats and liars to blue Cheats and liars so whats changed???:argh:
actually I agree with you , but Fellas ,,, a national gov siding with act ,, does anyone remember the early eighties ,,,and are you complaining about crime now ,,,,why cannot I stop thinking ,," you stupid Stupid people "

Market forces are nothing to do with business ,they are more to do with the free entry to and from a market and so , with a market trader at the helm ( assuming that is the thought process in place ... the one he will use ....

you lot will

Lose+ all that you call a fair shake of the stick ,

and gain...
(the reason why) crime in south Auckland is rampant

Milk costs a fortune

Katie's Shoes is no longer trading

ACC ( which only required a 1 cent tax increase ) is only a shadow of what it was

Student fees ( Yes introduced under a laborious , but a new right policy , insisted upon by the IMF when you borrowed the money )~

ahh who cares I don't live there.... any more........ there are better places in this world ...sad to say


Still I miss hooning around on..the beach .....

Stephen

brought to you by a drive by posting


PPS
DO NOT COMPLAIN IN THREE YEARS TIME ..YOU MADE THE MESS LIVE WITH IT .

[The Buzz]

Muldoon won two elections with less then 45% of the vote. FPP doesn't work how you think it does.

You are possibly right Jim. Have never voted in a FFP election, have consumed a number of beers tonight, and the champagne has just been popped. Seemed to remember that FFP was all about the one with the most electorate seats wins, obviously wrong! Might need to wikipedia it to swot back up on the details! :drinkup:

[JMemonic]

Oh joy, medical bills increased, ACC privatised, interest back on student loans, as to how they propose to keep the promises made re hospital care, police, crime etc ffs.

Oh btw a global monetary crisis is umm global little our government does can alter how that works.

At the end of the day stuff all changes, except the lunatics supposedly in charge.

[James Deuce]

You are possibly right Jim. Have never voted in a FFP election, have consumed a number of beers tonight, and the champagne has just been popped. Seemed to remember that FFP was all about the one with the most electorate seats wins, obviously wrong! Might need to wikipedia it to swot back up on the details! :drinkup:

Yes that's right. The most electorate seats.

In those days a rural seat containing 20000 voters gained a seat in parliament the same way one with 100000 did. This allowed a party to gain a majority of seats in Parliament without commanding a clear lead in the popular vote. In those days Gerrymandering was rife, with subtle shifts in electoral boundaries ensuring that an electorate contained clear majorities of one type of voter. No wonder Politicians have begun a subtle campaign to return to FPP.

National used the support of rural NZ to win the majority of 20th Century elections in NZ, leveraging off the voting habits of business oriented farmers and their supporting communities, effectively disenfranchising city dwellers - people often simplistically portrayed as blue collar socialists. In an FPP election with the old electoral boundaries, the urban gains National made this election would most likely have played against their Parliamentary leadership aspirations.

[The Buzz]

Yes that's right. The most electorate seats.

In those days a rural seat containing 20000 voters gained a seat in parliament the same way one with 100000 did. This allowed a party to gain a majority of seats in Parliament without commanding a clear lead in the popular vote. In those days Gerrymandering was rife, with subtle shifts in electoral boundaries ensuring that an electorate contained clear majorities of one type of voter. No wonder Politicians have begun a subtle campaign to return to FPP.

National used the support of rural NZ to win the majority of 20th Century elections in NZ, leveraging off the voting habits of business oriented farmers and their supporting communities, effectively disenfranchising city dwellers - people often simplistically portrayed as blue collar socialists. In an FPP election with the old electoral boundaries, the urban gains National made this election would most likely have played against their Parliamentary leadership aspirations.

Hey thanks Jim for explaining that so clearly, appreciate that, it makes sense as well as things do at 12.30am in the morning!

[James Deuce]

Mate, you are pissed if I make sense. You need to drink a LOT of water before you go to bed, or that hangover will be a bitch.

[Qkkid]

Now that is what its all about you work hard you get rewarded for it, there is no free lunch good on you New Zealand

[The Buzz]

Mate, you are pissed if I make sense. You need to drink a LOT of water before you go to bed, or that hangover will be a bitch.

Well am waiting for the Olds to call in on their way back from John Key's party at Sky City - so might be a few drinks before I hit the sack, some water may be in order! Will have to have a re-read in the morning to see if you really were talking shit or not!

[Ixion]

everything worldwide is run by the Masons and bankers anyway.. they just give you the illusion of choice..

Helen v. John
Obama v. McCain
Communism v. Capitalism
Coke v. Pepsi..


..

Dude. You're back.Oh, happy day. Now there's someone worth arguing with. And now that the US has a fuzzy-wuzzy happy-clappy POTUS, Mr Putin is grinning from ear to ear.

So, how long do y' reckon before your new prezzie does a runner from Irag with his tail between his legs , and hands control of the region over to Iran and Mr Putin (Unless Israel is so ill advised as to try a pre-emptive strike on their own, in which case, woo-hoo).

Ah, this is like the old days. I've missed having a lick-spittkle running dog of the capilatist imperialist warlords on hand to abuse.

[SARGE]

meh.. mark my words commie..

somewhere between Jan 20 an mid-July.. someone will try something on US soil to see what he's made of..

lets hope hes got the balls to react in a non-Clinton way


he has my support as he is my Commander in Chief.. but he has to EARN my respect

he's not even black for fucks sake..

[Ixion]

I wouldn't be surprised if you're right. And I'm sure Mr Putin will be watching closely. If he flinches - bye-bye Georgia, Azerbijan, whateverelsestan.

I'll bet Turkey is watching too. I wouldn't take bets on Kurdistan .

I don't think he's got the balls for it, m'self, but I may be wrong, I thought JFK was a spoiled rich kid wimp.

[Forest]

lets hope hes got the balls to react in a non-Clinton way


What exactly does that mean?

Clinton authorised missiles to be fired into both Iraq, Sudan and Afghanistan without UN approval.

[SARGE]

I wouldn't be surprised if you're right. And I'm sure Mr Putin will be watching closely. If he flinches - bye-bye Georgia, Azerbijan, whateverelsestan.

I'll bet Turkey is watching too. I wouldn't take bets on Kurdistan .


Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, North Korea,..Iran wont be a big problem... we'll let Israel wear them down for a few months first



fuck man.. i cant believe I lost the election.. i could have ended ALL this shit in 3 weeks

[Ixion]

What exactly does that mean?

Clinton authorised missiles to be fired into both Iraq, Sudan and Afghanistan without UN approval.

Bu only in an eco-friendly non-confrontational way.

[SARGE]

What exactly does that mean?

Clinton authorised missiles to be fired into both Iraq and Afghanistan without UN approval.

yea.. that deadly aspirin factory..


Clinton was great for the economy (as all Democrats tend to be) but couldnt fight his way out of a kindy.. George Sr. had the balls, but was hamstrung by the liberal cocksucker media.. W is just a hand puppet trying to impress Daddy.. Regan was our last good president but had his hands tied by Congress

[Ixion]

Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, North Korea,..Iran wont be a big problem... we'll let Israel wear them down for a few months first



fuck man.. i cant believe I lost the election.. i could have ended ALL this shit in 3 weeks

North Korea is a strawman. At worst all they could do is nuke South Korea, who cares. The others are irrelevant except to zionists.
But you haven't addressed the question, how is your POTUS going to protect the ex-USSR satellite states? They have control of major stragetic resources, and are an integral part of Russia's plans to reestablish itself as a superpower. Unless Mr Obama can offer them a meaningful umbrella (and I don't see how it can be a non-nuclear umbrella, the USAF doesn't have the capacity to mount straegic non-nuke offensives that far from home), they'll be forced into Mr Putin's clutches. Personally, I don't think he (Mr Obama) has the balls, or maybe doesn't even undersatand what the game's about. I'd be absolutely certain that the people who voted for him don't.

Ah. we live in interesting times.

[Forest]

yea.. that deadly aspirin factory..


Clinton was great for the economy (as all Democrats tend to be) but couldnt fight his way out of a kindy.. George Sr. had the balls, but was hamstrung by the liberal cocksucker media.. W is just a hand puppet trying to impress Daddy.. Regan was our last good president but had his hands tied by Congress

The operations in Sudan were intended to protect the US against chemical weapons. The fact the the military intelligence was wrong doesn't invalidate Clinton's motive.

It is historical fact that Clinton authorised several pre-emptive militarily strikes to protect the US, and it does you no credit to deny it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Infinite_Reach

Reagan was a senile old fool. I've just been reading Alan Greenspan's book The Age of Turbulence and he makes it clear that Reagan started the US along the path to ruin by massively increasing the cost and size of the Federal Government.

[SARGE]

North Korea is a strawman. At worst all they could do is nuke South Korea, who cares. The others are irrelevant except to zionists.
But you haven't addressed the question, how is your POTUS going to protect the ex-USSR satellite states? They have control of major stragetic resources, and are an integral part of Russia's plans to reestablish itself as a superpower. Unless Mr Obama can offer them a meaningful umbrella (and I don't see how it can be a non-nuclear umbrella, the USAF doesn't have the capacity to mount straegic non-nuke offensives that far from home), they'll be forced into Mr Putin's clutches. Personally, I don't think he (Mr Obama) has the balls, or maybe doesn't even undersatand what the game's about. I'd be absolutely certain that the people who voted for him don't.

Ah. we live in interesting times.



yea.. gonna be a party alright..

you seem to forget that we now have the largest military base in the world now to (Poland for one..) and our detente (big fucking bombs) is as strong as it was in the 70's..possibly stronger since actual numbers are vague at best..Putin is just rattling his saber trying to get a rise ..Obama cant officially do anything yet

[Ixion]

The operations in Sudan were intended to protect the US against chemical weapons. The fact the the military intelligence was wrong doesn't invalidate Clinton's motive.

It is historical fact that Clinton authorised a pre-emptive militarily strike to protect the US, and it does you no credit to deny it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Infinite_Reach

Reagan was a senile old fool. I've just been reading Alan Greenspan's book The Age of Turbulence and he makes it clear that Reagan started the US along the path to ruin by massively increasing the cost and size of the Federal Government.


Hey I protest against that on behalf of all us senile old fools. Mods ! Burn him! And George Washington started the US along the path to ruin by massively increasing the cost and size of the Federal Government. Until he came along the Federal budget was quite reasonable.

Isn't it the POTUS's job to make sure that the military intelligence is right? Or at least ensure it is before he acts on it? That's an excuse that might be sufficient for a company commander , but not for the Commander in Chief.

[Forest]

But hey. Why am I arguing about the US and its role in history.

We got a new government and ditched the bitch! :clap:

[SARGE]

The operations in Sudan were intended to protect the US against chemical weapons. The fact the the military intelligence was wrong doesn't invalidate Clinton's motive.

It is historical fact that Clinton authorised several pre-emptive militarily strikes to protect the US, and it does you no credit to deny it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Infinite_Reach

Reagan was a senile old fool. I've just been reading Alan Greenspan's book The Age of Turbulence and he makes it clear that Reagan started the US along the path to ruin by massively increasing the cost and size of the Federal Government.

oh yea.. i forgot i was born in the US and was actually in the Military under Regan and lived there for 40 years.. how silly of me not to believe Alan fucking Greenspan over my own experiences..

[Ixion]

..and our detente (big fucking bombs) is as strong as it was in the 70's..possibly stronger since actual numbers are vague at best....


Big fucking bombs are no use unless the Bod-in-Charge has the balls to use them . I reckon Mr Putin has. I reckon Mr Obama hasn't. (And I reckon Mr Putin shares my opinion) . A sabre that rattles then chops off your head is a better weapon than an H bomb that no-one is prepared to use. I'm more scared of people with knives than people with H bombs.

Oh happy day. Intelligent argument again

[SARGE]

Big fucking bombs are no use unless the Bod-in-Charge has the balls to use them . I reckon Mr Putin has. I reckon Mr Obama hasn't. A sabre that rattles then chops off your head is a better weapon than an H bomb that no-one is prepared to use. I'm more scared of people with knives than people with H bombs.

yea.. i know sweet fuck all about Obama to tell the truth so i guess time will tell

[Forest]

oh yea.. i forgot i was born in the US and was actually in the Military under Reagan and lived there for 40 years.. how silly of me not to believe Alan fucking Greenspan over my own experiences..

I'm happy to take Alan Greenspan's word over yours. He was after all the Chairman of the Federal Reserve from 1987 to 2006.

Reagan dramatically increased government spending and cut taxes - which plunged the US Federal Budget into deficit spending. Did you never wonder why George H. W. Bush was forced to renege on his campaign promises and raise taxes after being elected? It's because Reagan really screwed things up.

But hey. I don't have to pay taxes in the US, so I guess your record budget deficits (and corresponding national debt) aren't really my problem.

[Forest]

I'm more scared of people with knives than people with H bombs.

That's actually quite a rational position to take.

Small arms and knives have killed considerably more people than atomic weapons ever will.

[Ixion]

I'm happy to take Alan Greenspan's word over yours. He was after all the Chairman of the Federal Reserve from 1987 to 2006.

Reagan dramatically increased government spending and cut taxes - which plunged the US Federal Budget into deficit spending. Did you never wonder why George H. W. Bush was forced to renege on his campaign promises and raise taxes after being elected? It's because Reagan really screwed things up.

But hey. I don't have to pay taxes in the US, so I guess your record budget deficits (and corresponding national debt) aren't really my problem.

Hey, it worked for Pitt the Younger. Actually, deficit finance isn't inherently a bad thing. The problem is , it's like P, easy to get started on, hard as hell to come off. Reagan only screwed up with hindsight. Which raises the question, should a POTUS make decisions based on what is best for here-an-now, or what is best for an (indeterminate) future. Reagan went with here and now. So did Muldoon. Both of them got it worngA (note spellling) in terms of the future. But we only know that through hindsight.

[SARGE]

I'm happy to take Alan Greenspan's word over yours. He was after all the Chairman of the Federal Reserve from 1987 to 2006.

Reagan dramatically increased government spending and cut taxes - which plunged the US Federal Budget into deficit spending. Did you never wonder why George H. W. Bush was forced to renege on his campaign promises and raise taxes after being elected? It's because Reagan really screwed things up.

But hey. I don't have to pay taxes in the US, so I guess your record budget deficits (and corresponding national debt) aren't really my problem.

first off..the Federal Reserve is neither Federal, nor Reserve..it is a private bank (google is your friend)


second..there are many reasons Reagan cranked up the spending ..Ford and Carter raped the military and left it with Vietnam era weaponry and training. the economy was in the shit, unemployment was high,interest rates were high, inflation was high..

yea, he cut taxes.. helped my family farm survive and help industry recover to the boom it became in the 80's

the USSR was also ramping up the spend on the military and the US was the only country willing and able to contain them so that dipped into the coffers..


incidentally.. i am US Tax free since 1983..little purple medal i have in my footlocker says so..

[Ixion]

..
incidentally.. i am US Tax free since 1983..little purple medal i have in my footlocker says so..

A Purple Heart gives tax free status ? That's way cool. That is one thing I respect about the US, they look after their veterans. Could be better to be sure, but at least there's an admission that they deserve something in return for putting it on the line. We don't even have a Veterans' Day. And ANZAC day has become a sort of greenie antiwar thing .

[Forest]

Hey, it worked for Pitt the Younger. Actually, deficit finance isn't inherently a bad thing. The problem is , it's like P, easy to get started on, hard as hell to come off. Reagan only screwed up with hindsight. Which raises the question, should a POTUS make decisions based on what is best for here-an-now, or what is best for an (indeterminate) future. Reagan went with here and now. So did Muldoon. Both of them got it worngA (note spellling) in terms of the future. But we only know that through hindsight.

Those are very good questions.

It's easy for me to sit here and play Arm-chair General because I have the luxury of seeing things in their historical context. The real challenge of effective leadership is in making decisions under pressure with incomplete information.

[SARGE]

A Purple Heart gives tax free status ? That's way cool. That is one thing I respect about the US, they look after their veterans. Could be better to be sure, but at least there's an admission that they deserve something in return for putting it on the line. We don't even have a Veterans' Day. And ANZAC day has become a sort of greenie antiwar thing .



i get 80% of my highest pay grade every month for life (well over US$1000/mo) on my retirement..i am eligible for free university while attending in the US,..3% guaranteed home loans (cant be turned down.. comes right out of my pension) and free major medical at a NATO facility


no depth perception but hey..evens out at 180 kph anyway :Punk:

[Forest]

first off..the Federal Reserve is neither Federal, nor Reserve..it is a private bank (google is your friend)

What??? No it isn't.

The Federal Reserve is an independent institution within the Federal Government that regulates the banking system, manages the money supply, and acts as the primary interface between the US Treasury and the private banking sector.

The only link to the private banking system is that the private banks operating within the US own stock within the twelve regional Federal Reserve Banks. This gives the private banks access to the Fed's retail and wholesale payments systems, FDIC insurance on deposits, and liquidity in financial emergencies. However the private banks have to submit to regulation and supervision by the Federal Reserve to access these facilities.

[Toaster]

everything worldwide is run by the Masons and bankers anyway.. they just give you the illusion of choice..


You watch too many conpiracy movies.

As a banker and an ex-mason that is just utter bollocks.

[Toaster]

Oh well, the election is all but over, and National have won...Personally I am glad that Rodney Hyde got in as well

Hooray!!

National IN - Great - poor sods have inhertied a mess thanks to Labours tax raping, social engineering and redtape spending.

ACT IN - very good - at least there will be some right leaning accountability.

UF IN - He is indeed a good bloke and again helps with balance.

LABOUR OUT - Wasteful self serving arrogant losers who have ruled over us too long and ignored what we actually wanted and needed just to pursure personal agendas.

GREENS OUT - Sad but good to take the pressure off their anti growth policies. I like them in princicple, but they got way too much sway on things that really hurt progress. Finding more of a balance needed here now.

NZF OUT - lazy and a liar. Policies were very good though, just the leader was living the highlife at our expense and only ever did anything in election years. Ron Mark is a real loss to issues around defence/police/crime.

JIMMY - should have retired back in the 1800's I think. Nice old Grandad but past his use by date a long time ago.

Maoris - Preferential treatment and they still grizzle. HTFU and move on.

[portokiwi]

:buggerd: Only time will tell.

[paturoa]

Sarge! - you old dog you, welcome back.

Yep will be quite interesting to see the media spin (backlash?) over the next few days with the core Nat Act comming togeather (I was tempted to spell that "cuming"). I though several of them were going to cry last night when their parties were loosing.

Woo hoo, the chief thief is a gone burger.

I've felt for the last few years that the harder I work and the more I earn, the more other people benefit.

But anyway, now will we see an emphasis on, here are policies to encourage more people to put in the work and drive growth, or lets circle the wagons cos the global situation is crap?

On the Obama thing, how many global nutters will be looking to or supporting the local merkin nutters to have a go at him? or will there be a subtle shift to softer targets. In the last 10 years we've seen, political and civil targets but bugger all economic targets. Many would currently be weak.

[trustme]

Ding,dong , the witch is dead.

[Wasp27]

Not entirely unexpected other than the Maori Party not figuring as expected. Seats don't suggest a long term Govt. With a new Labour leader combined with a drop of a couple of Nat seats along with ACT, and Labour could be back '12.



Skyryder

Surely S/R....what you meant to say was...'Congatulations John, you and your team have done a fantastic job....in spite of all that shite!!!!! I, along with my fellow Labour cohorts will do all in our powers to ensure a smooth transition (tui):whistle:
You could also go outside and take a deep breath....I'm sure you'll agree, the sky is so much clearer this morning...:yes: at least it is where we are:sunny:

[Quasievil]

Well done National Im very pleased!!

I think all of you commenting the change has only got rid of one set of cheats and liars for another set of cheats and liars really really need to get a LIFE !
give them a fucking chance, your baging them before they even get out of the starting blocks, after a year go for it but for now dont say that crap.

Im wishing them the very best im im certain NZ will be a better place for it.

[James Deuce]

UF IN - He is indeed a good bloke and again helps with balance.



Peter Dunne is a lying two-faced sleaze bag. He isn't a good bloke. He's captured the findamentalist Christian vote and the lazy fat middle class people I'm surrounded by who just vote for the same guy who was in last time. He jumped to National 3 weeks ago, after brokering confidence for the Revenue Minister's position with Labour. If it looks like it's going pear shaped with National next election he'll mount the scuppers and head down the rat lines quick smart. For all that they're the embodiment of everything I loathe in Parliamentary representatives, the Greens had the principles to stick with Labour and went down with them. Unless of course they start sucking up to National.

Fuck it, I want Principled people in Parliament. Not Teachers and Money Traders and career butt lickers. BIll Andersen was one of my best school mate's Uncle. He used to visit and lecture the crap out of us about why we should care about Politics and why the Character of the individuals in Parliement was important. His politics aren't mine, and he used to stress that it was OK for people to have different Political views provided they respected each other, and each other's attitudes. I can't help but think that basing an election result on an electorate's desire for "change" is the political equivalent of a nappy change. I went to a couple of the candidate meetings and there were 50 odd people at them. What do you guys base your decisions on if you don't meet them and grill them?

[James Deuce]

Well done National Im very pleased!!

I think all of you commenting the change has only got rid of one set of cheats and liars for another set of cheats and liars really really need to get a LIFE !
give them a fucking chance, your baging them before they even get out of the starting blocks, after a year go for it but for now dont say that crap.

Im wishing them the very best im im certain NZ will be a better place for it.

You're a businessman. It will get better for you.

John Key is a money trader. He has no principles. I know he will not prove me wrong. Those kind of people always have a handy justification for why there are people living in the street and it never has anything to do with them. National didn't win the election Labour lost it, and the vast majority of people voted how the media told them to.

[MisterD]

and the vast majority of people voted how the media told them to.

Que? Duncan Garner and Fran Mouldy should come with labour party authoristation statements...

[scumdog]

You're a businessman. It will get better for you.

John Key is a money trader. He has no principles. I know he will not prove me wrong. Those kind of people always have a handy justification for why there are people living in the street and it never has anything to do with them. National didn't win the election Labour lost it, and the vast majority of people voted how the media told them to.

I voted to get rid of a lying po-faced bitch.

It worked.

Viva democracy!!!

[Bren]

I woke up to a bright and sunny day....Nuff said:sunny:


Better not rain this arvo!!!!



Helen is gone :sunny:


The people have spoken, it's time for a change....


Lets see what happens eh...we can do it all again in 3 years if national are no good...

[Toaster]

What do you guys base your decisions on if you don't meet them and grill them?

If you cared to ask before jumping the gun, I have actually met him and grilled him.

[Quasievil]

You're a businessman. It will get better for you.

John Key is a money trader. He has no principles. I know he will not prove me wrong. Those kind of people always have a handy justification for why there are people living in the street and it never has anything to do with them. National didn't win the election Labour lost it, and the vast majority of people voted how the media told them to.

Who knows, Im a kiwi first and Im a free one, Labour was slowly erroding that freedom from me, thats why I voted her out.
National won it mate, labour lost it because the people spoke, the people have had enough of the constant stream of lies and manipulation and non performance in key areas, health law schools etc, 9 years and its still fucked and worse than when they started, yet the beuracracy that runs it has grown hugely, how does that work, they had nine years and they sucked big time.........why would anyone give them a 4th term.

Bye bye helen hello hope !

[Toaster]

You're a businessman. It will get better for you.

John Key is a money trader. He has no principles.

No principles? What a load of over-generalising crap. Sounds like jealousy of wealth and success to me.

[Skyryder]

Surely S/R....what you meant to say was...'Congatulations John, you and your team have done a fantastic job....in spite of all that shite!!!!! I, along with my fellow Labour cohorts will do all in our powers to ensure a smooth transition (tui):whistle:
You could also go outside and take a deep breath....I'm sure you'll agree, the sky is so much clearer this morning...:yes: at least it is where we are:sunny:

There's chill wind blowin' here in Chch this Sunday morn: a portent of things to come??? But I'm not altogether pissed off.

Every new day is day closer to the Nats defeat.


Skyryder

[MotoGirl]

Now that Aunty Helen has stepped down, I'm more interested to see who will take her place.

I'm happy with the result of the election (and so I should be, I got what I asked for), however, it isn't going to make me stay in this country any longer than I absolutely have to. The problems associated with political correctness and reverse racism aren't going anywhere, irrespective of who's in government.

[Skyryder]

Peter Dunne couldn't keep a roll of bog paper honest.

Yea.............ya right there. Like waffle speech he gave on election night. Peter Dunn =PD = Pointless Drivel=The Hon Pointless Drivel..............that's my name for Dunn from now on.


Skyryder

[hospitalfood]

Im not sure that Labour did a bad job overall ?
as to that future i will wait and see.

I think a lot of people voted Nat in the hope that it would change the global financial situation for the better, but the cause of the recession had nothing to do with N.Z. and the solution is beyond us as well. we can only try and hope.

i find it ironic that we have voted in a right-wing party while we are on the verge of global financial chaos, surely most of us would be better off under a left-wing party if the shit hits the fan and we have mass unemployment ?

[Skyryder]

Now that Aunty Helen has stepped down, I'm more interested to see who will take her place.

I'm happy with the result of the election (and so I should be, I got what I asked for), however, it isn't going to make me stay in this country any longer than I absolutely have to. The problems associated with political correctness and reverse racism aren't going anywhere, irrespective of who's in government.


Probley Goff. He's the best Labour have to match Key. I have not got into who will make the new lineup but watch Shane Jones.

Skyryder

[Skyryder]

actually I agree with you , but Fellas ,,, a national gov siding with act ,, does anyone remember the early eighties ,,,and are you complaining about crime now ,,,,why cannot I stop thinking ,," you stupid Stupid people "

There's a whole gernaration who never 'experianced' living under
Rodgernomics. It is just a name bandied about and had little to do with their own experiance. Most of Key's front rank are names assosiated with these times and are sympethetic to the ideology. They are going to find out real fast.

Skyryder

[jrandom]

Who knows, Im a kiwi first and Im a free one, Labour was slowly erroding that freedom from me, thats why I voted her out.

+1.

Electoral Finance Act.

Repealing s59.

Duynhoven's LTNZ and road policing administration.

Subscribing to Kyoto.

The list goes on.

Labour have arrogantly ignored their electorate and passed legislation that wastes taxpayers' resources and stomps on personal freedoms.

You may argue that National could do exactly the same, but the point is, Labour has already done it. They cannot be allowed to remain in power; it's always been the case that Governments must be rotated to keep them honest and responsive to their citizens.

[James Deuce]

No principles? What a load of over-generalising crap. Sounds like jealousy of wealth and success to me.

It isn't. I have no issue with his wealth and success. I do have an issue about what he is going to cost me personally and the reasons for doing. However, bringing it up just gets me the "serves you right speech".

So I'll bring it up.

You know how you guys like to make fun of 'tards?

One of my kids is one of those.

One of the things National did last time round was to close the IHC schools and institute "mainstreaming". Mainstreaming doesn't work. The "Normal" kids lose resources and the "Abnormal" kids don't get the specialised support they need. The pool of specialist support skills gets spread across a wide area and access to those specialists is limited.

National are increasing spending on education and health. NZ has a finite pool of money. National are also going to remove mainstreaming and increase fines for truancy. So one of my kids isn't going to be starting school in two years, and if the Truancy law isn't carefully reviewed I'm going to be rendered a criminal. SES (Special Education Services) are going to be reviewed in the next 100 days and potentially closed down, as getting rid of them frees up the 100 million National want to spedn on fixing up schools. I have no problem with that. National obviously have no issue with making sure that tards remain tards. No point spending money on them you see.

They've also spoken about limiting access to health services for people with significant chromosomal disorders, and demanding genetic screening for mothers over a certain age, to reduce the infrastructure burden the "mistakes" create.

The fundamental basis for creating a society is so that a group of people can band resources together to make sure that everyone is cared for, particularly those who can't look after themselves.

Once again, we'll have to listen to the "Brioche" lectures. If you didn't prepare for your retirement/sick relatives/'tards, then it's all your fault and don't come whinging to us. In the meantime, I'll be spending all my "excess" money on increasing medical costs, having to pay for the Correspondence School programme (if it stays open), and all without the significant tax reductions necessary for people to actually take responsibility for those things. The one outfit that provides decent help for us (WEIT) is facing a finding cut that will close it. I was a DINKY under the last National Government and significantly worse off at then end of their tenure. Being able to access services my kids need is important to me.

I know these issues don't mean anything to any of you and the majority are muttering, "cry me a fucking river", under their breath. The last National Government cared only about the bottom line, to the point where I couldn't access surgery to fix nerve issues from my big motorcycle accident, leaving me with permanent issues. Given John Key's background, and the sort of personal experience I've had in the business world with their ilk, I think this lot are going to be worse than Bolger/Shipley by a fair margin.

[jrandom]

The fundamental basis for creating a society is so that a group of people can band resources together to make sure that everyone is cared for, particularly those who can't look after themselves.

Agreed. And I also think NZ is generally better off under a socialist government. I'm no economic conservative.

But I cannot abide a government that begins to attack personal freedoms.

I'm happy to absorb the costs of the tweaks National will inevitably make to the system in exchange for the cessation of Labour's assault on my liberty and misuse of my tax money.

Of course, our different situations mean that it's a lot easier for me to say that than it is for you. All one can hope is that this National government will not do too much to make your life a misery, and that a new and humbler party of the People (tm) will learn its lessons and return to power in due course.

[The Pastor]

Jim wont let them sell kiwibank!

[jrandom]

Jim wont let them sell kiwibank!

I've yet to see any cogent arguments for or against the gubmint retaining ownership of Kiwibank.

Can anyone provide linkage?

[rainman]

I think a lot of people voted Nat in the hope that it would change the global financial situation for the better, but the cause of the recession had nothing to do with N.Z. and the solution is beyond us as well. we can only try and hope.

But his business experience will save us, don'tcha know.


i find it ironic that we have voted in a right-wing party while we are on the verge of global financial chaos, surely most of us would be better off under a left-wing party if the shit hits the fan and we have mass unemployment ?

Yeah that one puzzles me too: in difficult times, conservatives are generally fecking useless. But such is democracy, and that's what we got, so best to make the most of it. I will be watching Mr Key and his friends with interest.

[Skyryder]

I've yet to see any cogent arguments for or against the gubmint retaining ownership of Kiwibank.

Can anyone provide linkage?


Well I don't know about links one way or the other but a Kiwi 'resident' is the CEO that's gota be a plus. So to does the fact that any profit is not 'shipped offshore so that's another one. There appears to no finacial reason why Kiwi Bank should be sold so given the fact that this bank is successfull in a competitive enviornment........that's another............. In actual fact I have not heard of any reason to sell Kiwi Bank other that ideological ones.............and when this is dissected down to the barest of issues implies that New Zealanders can not do something as well as offshore companies.

Skyryder

[JMemonic]

Well done National Im very pleased!!

I think all of you commenting the change has only got rid of one set of cheats and liars for another set of cheats and liars really really need to get a LIFE !
give them a fucking chance, your baging them before they even get out of the starting blocks, after a year go for it but for now dont say that crap.

Im wishing them the very best im im certain NZ will be a better place for it.

Hell Quasi I understand that as a businessman National seems to the be most advantageous, how ever how the hell can anyone not recognise that politicians are inherently liars, every election they make promises knowing it is impossible to keep them, whilst the average joe, yourself included gets screwed.

Sorry I trust none of them to do the right thing by me, you or the average person, no one survives in that game by being altruistic.

[Wolfrider]

Now that Aunty Helen has stepped down, I'm more interested to see who will take her place.

I'm happy with the result of the election (and so I should be, I got what I asked for), however, it isn't going to make me stay in this country any longer than I absolutely have to. The problems associated with political correctness and reverse racism aren't going anywhere, irrespective of who's in government.

You go girl, shame no one else can see what is going on:yes: I, like Mr James Deuce have a son who is retarted, and requires expensive meds to keep him semi "normal". Don't know what we would do if we couldn' afford the meds :buggerd:

[JMemonic]

+1.

Electoral Finance Act.

Repealing s59.

Duynhoven's LTNZ and road policing administration.

Subscribing to Kyoto.

The list goes on.

Labour have arrogantly ignored their electorate and passed legislation that wastes taxpayers' resources and stomps on personal freedoms.

You may argue that National could do exactly the same, but the point is, Labour has already done it. They cannot be allowed to remain in power; it's always been the case that Governments must be rotated to keep them honest and responsive to their citizens.

None of that is going to change, its called party politics, what ever is best for a the person at the top, b the party, c the financial backers etc etc whats best for NZ is way down the list.

[wbks]

Now we have a new national liar likely to throw us into the next war to pop up and once again increase the gap between lower class NZers and middle-upper income bracket NZers. I don't think there were any real problems with Labour and any changes with National won't fix the ones that are around e.g law and order etc. "He just got snapped drinking in public again? Send him to the Gulags, John!". The world sucks, it won't get much better. I will enjoy laughing at the pathetic people that voted for National because Labour hadn't done anything for you. GET OFF YOUR ASS

[MisterD]

Probley Goff. He's the best Labour have to match Key. I have not got into who will make the new lineup but watch Shane Jones.

Word is that the Unionist and Feminist groupings within Labour have done a deal to block that. My pick would be Cunliffe.

Here's a radical prediction, cos I'm in an upbeat and optimistic mood this morning:

Two terms of Key then Simon Bridges becomes the first Maori PM of New Zealand. :girlfight:

[devnull]

Now we have a new national liar likely to throw us into the next war to pop up and once again increase the gap between lower class NZers and middle-upper income bracket NZers. I don't think there were any real problems with Labour and any changes with National won't fix the ones that are around e.g law and order etc. "He just got snapped drinking in public again? Send him to the Gulags, John!". The world sucks, it won't get much better. I will enjoy laughing at the pathetic people that voted for National because Labour hadn't done anything for you. GET OFF YOUR ASS

No real problems??

Where do you keep your head?

Lets see.... paintergate, speedergate, doonegate... And that's just Helen.

Lets not forget the number of their MPs forced to resign because of criminal allegations and procedings.

Or the latest one - Helen paying out $1m to the "secret taper" just a couple of days ago.

I was sick of their lies, deceit and corruption - seems like a lot of others were too

BTW, I'm as happy as a dog with 2 cocks with this election result :jerry:

[Brian d marge]

"Tis a lonely Road to Surfdom" ,,,,, Said Margaret

[Madness]

Or the latest one - Helen paying out $1m to the "secret taper" just a couple of days ago.

Could you elaborate on this one for me please? I must have fallen into a coma without realising this week...

[wbks]

No real problems??

Where do you keep your head?

Lets see.... paintergate, speedergate, doonegate... And that's just Helen.

Lets not forget the number of their MPs forced to resign because of criminal allegations and procedings.

Or the latest one - Helen paying out $1m to the "secret taper" just a couple of days ago.

I was sick of their lies, deceit and corruption - seems like a lot of others were too

BTW, I'm as happy as a dog with 2 cocks with this election result :jerry:
By real problems I mean being bombed for being involved with a war in the middle east like John key wanted. What REAL problems do you think exist in NZ that a government can fix? Also, I'd like to find one government that hasn't been picked apart prior to election accused of corruption etc. And if the yanks get involved in a new war like they may well with a new leader then John Key will probably put our hand up for that one, just like he wanted to earlier and like how National seems to have a habit of giving in to foreign pressure.

[Gibbo13p]

Well I'll be saying told ya so when, everything we may have gained in the last 9 years get the arse, including us workers....

:spanking:

[SARGE]

What??? No it isn't.

The Federal Reserve is an independent institution within the Federal Government that regulates the banking system, manages the money supply, and acts as the primary interface between the US Treasury and the private banking sector.

The only link to the private banking system is that the private banks operating within the US own stock within the twelve regional Federal Reserve Banks. This gives the private banks access to the Fed's retail and wholesale payments systems, FDIC insurance on deposits, and liquidity in financial emergencies. However the private banks have to submit to regulation and supervision by the Federal Reserve to access these facilities.

we are both partially correct


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve_System


still run by the bloody Freemasons and Bilderberg Group though

(and you thought they were just a boys club who engaged in pissups, funny hats and secret handshakes)

http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NWO/All_Seeing_Eye.htm

[trustme]

John Key stated late in the campaign that Kiwi bank would not be sold , he admitted that initially he was not a fan but had subsequently changed his mind, nothing sinister in that, we have proably all had a change of heart at some stage about something.
People would do well to remember that Rogernomics was the cure not the disease. It was nasty vile & unpleasant medicine forxced onto us because of a diseased non functional economy. People rail against the cure of Rogernomics, I would far rather we never catch the disease.
We had a govt that was massively in debt hence the asset sales
We had a public service that was totally inefficient hence the service cuts
We had a private sector that was unproductive, inefficient,reliant on subsidies & protection, hence deregulation was necessary, a dose of reality
A shit load of pain for all parties that paid off over the last 10 years.
Labour/ Clark have given the disease a 9 year head start
I hope to hell we will not need another dose of the cure, but that may well be Clark's legacy to the country.

[Forest]

There's a whole gernaration who never 'experianced' living under
Rodgernomics. It is just a name bandied about and had little to do with their own experiance. Most of Key's front rank are names assosiated with these times and are sympethetic to the ideology. They are going to find out real fast.

Skyryder

There are some things you should know about Rogernomics.

(a) Roger Douglas was the Finance Minister in a Labour Party government when he began to restructure the economy.

(b) The Rogernomics program began in 1984. The NZ voters must have approved of the changes as both Roger Douglas and the Labour Party were re-elected in 1987.

(c) The economic changes implemented under Rogernomics were both necessary and correct. Consequently neither National or Labour have undone any of the key Rogernomic policies i.e. we still have low levels of import-protection, sensible monetary and fiscal policies, deregulated financial markets, and limited subsidies or other government interventions in the economy

My only regret is that Rogernomics didn't go far enough. We really should have got the flat tax system that was being proposed.

[xwhatsit]

Arse. `New' National are centrist enough perhaps not to worry me too greatly, although I am more than a little concerned about how people like (for instance) my girlfriend's mother, who recently had a severe stroke and requires fairly constant support in her own home will be treated under a National regime. What Jim2 is saying is more than a little frightening. However the biggest worry is who they've jumped into bed with; ACT (lunatic right-wingers, Sir Roger Douglas ferchrissakes) and old bible-belt Intelligently Designed Peter Dunne.

It's frightening, because within that whole government, there isn't one remotely socially-orientated bunch of politicians. If they'd at least jumped into bed with the Greens (*shudder*) maybe things might be OK, but there's only right-centrists and far right in there. We might end up with more money but I don't know if we're going to be a very happy, healthy, educated nation in three years. White middle-class males, celebrate!

[trustme]

What the left fail to understand is that to pay for all the socially orientated services they have to grow the business of NZ inc in order to generate additional income to pay for more services. Labour only looked after half of the equation , thats why we will be running a govt deficit for the next 10 years, & why we have to start running trade surpluses, if we dont head in that direction sooner or later it all catches up & what do you know , welcome back Rogernomics.
I am no fan of Rogernomics but increased social spending is no answer
You have to earn the money before you spend it.

[jrandom]

White middle-class males, celebrate!

Thank you. I am.

:apint:

[xwhatsit]

You have to earn the money before you spend it.
I was saying the same thing despite not voting for National; they want to cut taxes and sell off potentially profitable public assets, and they want to spend less on public services? Isn't that sort of like burning the candle at both ends?


Thank you.
@JRandom: The gap between us (WMCMs) and the rest of society is going to get bigger and bigger over the next few years.

[Skyryder]

There are some things you should know about Rogernomics.

(a) Roger Douglas was the Finance Minister in a Labour Party government when he began to restructure the economy.

(b) The Rogernomics program began in 1984. The NZ voters must have approved of the changes as both Roger Douglas and the Labour Party were re-elected in 1987.

(c) The economic changes implemented under Rogernomics were both necessary and correct. Consequently neither National or Labour have undone any of the key Rogernomic policies i.e. we still have low levels of import-protection, sensible monetary and fiscal policies, deregulated financial markets, and limited subsidies or other government interventions in the economy

My only regret is that Rogernomics didn't go far enough. We really should have got the flat tax system that was being proposed.


Tell me something I don't know.

You have forgotten the current world wide recession which many now believe are a direct consequence of free market economy and no regulatory checks.

Skyryder

[Jantar]

......National; they want to cut taxes and sell off potentially profitable public assets.....

Please elaborate. What potentially profitable public assets is it that they want to sell?

Oh, and please do remember that Labour have sold off far more assets than National ever have in the past.

[trustme]

I was saying the same thing despite not voting for National; they want to cut taxes and sell off potentially profitable public assets, and they want to spend less on public services? Isn't that sort of like burning the candle at both ends?
.

Cutting tax may very well increase the tax take for the govt , strange but true.
When tax went to 39% my accountant stated his role changed overnight from a business advisor to a tax advisor , Why you ask, cos 39% + gst meant people were paying over 50% in tax on every dollar they spent , it was a pill to bitter to swallow & people arranged their affairs to suit except for the poor mugs who didn't have such avenues available to them , They have been screwed by this govt & they are the ones who kicked them out
What public assets are they going to sell , Kiwi Bank is not for sale, they can't ditch rail because only an absolute moron would buy it , and our morons have reached their use by date .

[trustme]

Tell me something I don't know.

You have forgotten the current world wide recession which many now believe are a direct consequence of free market economy and no regulatory checks.

Skyryder

Clinton kicked it off by forcing Fannie & Freddie to lend money to poor people who had no hope of repaying housing loans. Too much unsecured lending , too much speculative borrowing.

Rogernomics was right but it's execution was apalling.

Our own current situation is not because of the overseas meltdown it has been caused by the govt & the reserve bank, the overseas shit is still coming.

[Swoop]

The winds of change have blown through the country. At last...

Particularly disturbing if you kept it under 140 when heading North today!

[Forest]

Clinton kicked it off by forcing Fannie & Freddie to lend money to poor people who had no hope of repaying housing loans. Too much unsecured lending , too much speculative borrowing.

Rogernomics was right but it's execution was apalling.

Our own current situation is not because of the overseas meltdown it has been caused by the govt & the reserve bank, the overseas shit is still coming.

Fannie Mac and Freddie Mae never made loans to home owners.

They were set up by the US government to purchase home loans from mortgage lenders, consolidate them into bundled securities, and then sell those securities to investors. The purpose for all this was to guarantee liquidity in the home lending market.

In other words, it was actually the private banks who lowered the lending standards for home loans.

But I agree with you about the unsecured lending and speculative borrowing. This crisis has been caused by a generation who chose to spend beyond their means, and by the lenders who extended them the credit to do so.

[Forest]

Tell me something I don't know.

You have forgotten the current world wide recession which many now believe are a direct consequence of free market economy and no regulatory checks.


And you seem to have forgotten that New Zealand is now a significantly wealthier country than it was in 1984.

This is a consequence of a free market economy and reduced government intervention.

[SARGE]

+1.


Subscribing to Kyoto.




yea .. i remember the shit storm the US landed in when GW refused to join up..

not as dumb as he looks huh?

:done:

[trustme]

Fannie Mac and Freddie Mae never made loans to home owners.

They were set up by the US government to purchase home loans from mortgage lenders, consolidate them into bundled securities, and then sell those securities to investors. The purpose for all this was to guarantee liquidity in the home lending market.

In other words, it was actually the private banks who lowered the lending standards for home loans.



As I understand it Clinton encouraged F & F to in effect purchase loans with reduced security , the banks duly complied by providing FA security, chicken or the egg , nett effect was the same, it is to a certain extent irrelevant to this debate.

[scumdog]

A
It's frightening, because within that whole government, there isn't one remotely socially-orientated bunch of politicians.

A shame Labour rammed 'socially-orientated' policies down our throat - the way THEY wanted us to have it, not what we actually needed.

And Labour might have stood a chance at the election if it's leader was not a magalomaniac lying two faced (and ugly to boot) bitch.

[Indiana_Jones]

I'm mainly glad the greens are not in a position to push through their bullshit ideals and bills on to the NZ public.

-Indy

[SARGE]

i voted for Bill & Ben

[AllanB]

Hey that means Helens now free to do a spread in FHM - should be out for Christmas.

[SARGE]

I'm mainly glad the greens are not in a position to push through their bullshit ideals and bills on to the NZ public.

-Indy

A Nation Of Sheep Soon Begets A Government Of Wolves
-Edward R. Murrow

[scumdog]

. The problems associated with political correctness and reverse racism aren't going anywhere, irrespective of who's in government.

Now ain't THAT the truth!!

Nobody seems to have the balls to undo all the PC and 'reverse racism' that has ben beaten into us for the last decade or so.

In a small doses and a little in total it was palatable, Labour just didn't know when to stop...

[carver]

meh.. mark my words commie..

somewhere between Jan 20 an mid-July.. someone will try something on US soil to see what he's made of..

lets hope hes got the balls to react in a non-Clinton way




it will be the mormon few doing wheelies past his limo

[paturoa]

..... and once again increase the gap between lower class NZers and middle-upper income bracket NZers.

I haven't got the numbers at my finger tips but I rekon that the gap has increased with increased social spending. What incentive is there with the rebate with Working for Families?

[paturoa]

When tax went to 39% my accountant stated his role changed overnight from a business advisor to a tax advisor

We need incentives to grow. The chief thief has overtaxed the productive parts of our economy. The balance wasn't right.

[Skyryder]

Please elaborate. What potentially profitable public assets is it that they want to sell?

Oh, and please do remember that Labour have sold off far more assets than National ever have in the past.



Well there must be some profit in ACC or else there would not be any buyers interested in the purchase and we know that there are Australian Insurance companies who would like nothing better than to get there ‘snout in the public trough and suck it dry at our expense.

The Nats also want to flog off the schools so someone must think there is profit in that too. Competition and choice is what the free marketers plug and plug. Problem with this is that it also compounds and increases the bureaucracy. This is one of the fundamental problem with our health system. So many Health Boards and bureairacrats doubling in repetitive areas up and doing the same job in different parts of the country. No wonder there has been an increase in public spending.

Both Key and Hide (there’s a joke in there somewhere) have blamed Labour for this. That is really a no brainer since Labour were the Govt. but it's the very policies that these two parties espouse which is the prime cause. Difference: Labour believed they should be responsible where both the Nats and ACT believe it’s not their responsibility and flick this off to the private sector. Personal responsibility Yea Right. No wonder they want to sell, it's the only way they know how to reduce public spending, but the bottom, line on this is that they never say that their policies will reduce 'your' spending for these services. Nor are they accountable when the service costs rise. THIS IS THE FUNDAMENTAL REASON WHY DOUGLAS AND THE FREEMARKETEERS PUSH THIS IDEOLOGY. Those that make the decisions are not responsible for the subsequent rises in costs that inevitably follow privatization. And these same fuckwits have the temerity to parody on about personal responsibility. Never hear about CORPORATE RESPONSIBILITY. Just watch the changes to the RMA and watch the environment get rooted.

YA BEEN FUCKED NEW ZEALAND. Some of us knew of this before the election.

Wonder how long it will take for the rest of NZ to figure it out.


Skyryder

[Skyryder]

Now ain't THAT the truth!!

Nobody seems to have the balls to undo all the PC and 'reverse racism' that has ben beaten into us for the last decade or so.

In a small doses and a little in total it was palatable, Labour just didn't know when to stop...

Actually they did.......................and it gave rise to the Maori Party.

One of the lesser known points of ACT's 20 point plan is to revisit the Seabed and Forshore legislation.


Skyryder

[doc]

tha ugly frikin liar of a bitch .


a lying po-faced bitch.


a magalomaniac lying two faced (and ugly to boot) bitch.


ain't THAT the truth!!


Didn't reach your "Quota" huh :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

[NighthawkNZ]

Didn't reach your "Quota" huh :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:


Ahhhh... 1 of the party conversation killers... Politics, and whats the other religion...

[Forest]

Well there must be some profit in ACC or else there would not be any buyers interested in the purchase and we know that there are Australian Insurance companies who would like nothing better than to get there ‘snout in the public trough and suck it dry at our expense.

The Nats also want to flog off the schools so someone must think there is profit in that too. Competition and choice is what the free marketers plug and plug. Problem with this is that it also compounds and increases the bureaucracy. This is one of the fundamental problem with our health system. So many Health Boards and bureairacrats doubling in repetitive areas up and doing the same job in different parts of the country. No wonder there has been an increase in public spending.

Are you on drugs?

Competition and choice reduces the size of the bureaucracy. Business managers don't allow the wastage and loss that takes place under state management.

Just look at the NZ health system. Labour increased health spending from 8 to 12 billion and there have been no corresponding improvements in health outcomes for NZ citizens.

Where did all the extra health spending go? Mostly into paying the salaries of the increased management bureaucracy that was appointed under Labour governance.



Both Key and Hide (there’s a joke in there somewhere) have blamed Labour for this. That is really a no brainer since Labour were the Govt. but it's the very policies that these two parties espouse which is the prime cause. Difference: Labour believed they should be responsible where both the Nats and ACT believe it’s not their responsibility and flick this off to the private sector. Personal responsibility Yea Right. No wonder they want to sell, it's the only way they know how to reduce public spending, but the bottom, line on this is that they never say that their policies will reduce 'your' spending for these services. Nor are they accountable when the service costs rise. THIS IS THE FUNDAMENTAL REASON WHY DOUGLAS AND THE FREEMARKETEERS PUSH THIS IDEOLOGY. Those that make the decisions are not responsible for the subsequent rises in costs that inevitably follow privatization. And these same fuckwits have the temerity to parody on about personal responsibility. Never hear about CORPORATE RESPONSIBILITY. Just watch the changes to the RMA and watch the environment get rooted.


Privatisation does not raise costs. It creates incentives for companies to increase efficiency and improve service.

I take it from your arguments that you're fairly young. Which means that you probably aren't aware of just how diabolical it was to get a telephone line installed, and just how expensive telephone calls were, when the entire NZ telephone system was under state control.

You might also have forgotten just how difficult it was to get a WOF vehicle inspection when all of the testing stations were under state control.

Or how you applied for a home mortgage and had to wait for 12 months until a government bureaucrat approved it. Since the number of mortgages allowed in the country was under state control.

When the railways were controlled by the state, the government prohibited trucks from carrying goods more than 100 miles. Which made transporting freight across NZ expensive and inefficient.

----------------------------------

Do you see the pattern that's emerging?

[doc]

Ahhhh... 1 of the party conversation killers... Politics, and whats the other religion...

Well Destiny Church must have some pretty boring parties.

Seriously, I just wanted a party that would scrap the Kyoto crap, this emission trading bs, is going to haunt us long after this perceived recession comes and goes. :angry2: :crybaby:

[doc]

Are you on drugs?
the railways were controlled by the state, the government prohibited trucks from carrying goods more than 100 miles. Which made transporting freight across NZ expensive and inefficient.

----------------------------------

Do you see the pattern that's emerging?

Fark those were the day's. Less trucks better roads for bikes, so heaps of gas, so it was cheaper. :jerry:

[trustme]

Are you on drugs?

Competition and choice reduces the size of the bureaucracy. Business managers don't allow the wastage and loss that takes place under state management.

Privatisation does not raise costs. It creates incentives for companies to increase efficiency and improve service.


By and large I agree with what you say, Skyryder does have a supply of good drugs, however privatisation of public services does not always work .
Take for example Bradfords deregulation of the power industry, did our power bills go down? , did they fuck!! It was a bullshit model & I could never see it resulting in lower prices & I think history bears me out.
The tertiary education system is run on a semi commercial basis, we have a bunch of private service providers all sucking on the public tit courtesy of student loans, is it really value for the money we pour in.?
We dont need to privatise,we need to streamline & cut out the BS
We have replaced commonsense with paperwork & bull shit, nobody wants to do anything they just want to clip the ticket on the way past.

[Swoop]

And Labour might have stood a chance at the election if it's leader was not a magalomaniac lying two faced (and ugly to boot) bitch.
The same could have been said of Winnie The Pooh's party.
A shame that he dragged Ron Marks down with him.

[Skyryder]

Are you on drugs?

Competition and choice reduces the size of the bureaucracy. Business managers don't allow the wastage and loss that takes place under state management.

Just look at the NZ health system. Labour increased health spending from 8 to 12 billion and there have been no corresponding improvements in health outcomes for NZ citizens.

Where did all the extra health spending go? Mostly into paying the salaries of the increased management bureaucracy that was appointed under Labour governance. (Which was the point that I was making due to duplication. Sky.)



Privatisation does not raise costs. It creates incentives for companies to increase efficiency and improve service. Try selling that one to the houshold consumer when their power bills are due. Sky)

I take it from your arguments that you're fairly young. (Wrong again. I'm sixty four.) Which means that you probably aren't aware of just how diabolical it was to get a telephone line installed, and just how expensive telephone calls were, when the entire NZ telephone system was under state control. True on this but then when you rang someone you got them and not an anwsering machine telling you what number to push. In those days you had a better service not the one now where you have to wait while you are on hold.Sky)

You might also have forgotten just how difficult it was to get a WOF vehicle inspection when all of the testing stations were under state control. Never had a problem then and the wait is no different now.

Or how you applied for a home mortgage and had to wait for 12 months until a government bureaucrat approved it. Since the number of mortgages allowed in the country was under state control. (My first home loan was at 3%. A state loan that went thru in I think if I remember 3 weeks. Ya heard it right 3%.Sky.)

When the railways were controlled by the state, the government prohibited trucks from carrying goods more than 100 miles. Which made transporting freight across NZ expensive and inefficient. It might come as a surprise that the reason the Labour Govt bought it back was that Buisness New Zealand wanted and alternitive to road due to costs. Sky

----------------------------------

Do you see the pattern that's emerging? Nope.


Me on drugs? I don't think so. What about ya self??


Skyryder

[Skyryder]

And you seem to have forgotten that New Zealand is now a significantly wealthier country than it was in 1984.

This is a consequence of a free market economy and reduced government intervention.

Actually I sort of agree. Labour certainly put a 'smily face' on the free market philosophy and to the betterement of NZ.

It's just that last night most thought differently.


But the shit has not hit the fan yet. It will. I just think Labour would have managed it better.

Skyryder

[Pussy]

At the end of the day... the country has spoken! That's democracy.
I myself am pleased with the outcome

[pete376403]

"meet the new boss, same as the old boss"...
Won't Get Fooled Again - The Who

[roy.nz]

Im glad that sore loser Bitch is out the country is on its way up now. :clap:

[Magua]

Im glad that sore loser Bitch is out the country is on its way up now. :clap:

What makes her a sore loser? Accepting the full blame for labour's loss or ringing Key to concede? :P

[xwhatsit]

Well at the end of it all, it's only three years. Not very long. So I suppose we lefty/commie/hippie/lazy/couch-burning/intellectual/art-fag/music-fag/transvestite/lesbians can just suck it up for 36 months and hope they don't get too enthusiastic and go overboard in the meantime. Then we look and see if we liked what we just had or if we preferred what we had before.

It'll be interesting to see what happens at the very least.

[Forest]

By and large I agree with what you say, Skyryder does have a supply of good drugs, however privatisation of public services does not always work .
Take for example Bradfords deregulation of the power industry, did our power bills go down? , did they fuck!! It was a bullshit model & I could never see it resulting in lower prices & I think history bears me out.
The tertiary education system is run on a semi commercial basis, we have a bunch of private service providers all sucking on the public tit courtesy of student loans, is it really value for the money we pour in.?
We dont need to privatise,we need to streamline & cut out the BS
We have replaced commonsense with paperwork & bull shit, nobody wants to do anything they just want to clip the ticket on the way past.

Totally agree with you. Ideology should never trump common sense. Especially when it comes to state services that offer services to captive markets.

[Forest]

Nope.


Me on drugs? I don't think so. What about ya self??


Skyryder

Not tonight. Maybe tomorrow.

Don't want to sound like I was having a go at you. I just don't think the "good old days" were really that good.

I'm sure we'll all be having this discussion again in three years time. Let's see what happens.

[Brian d marge]

As far as I understand it the free market does not mean Lassie-faire , it means the ability to enter and leave markets freely

I think Keynes said that man being inherently greedy will push the market to extremes and thus would need some regulations to keep those excesses under control

Roger douglas ( lower case ) was indeed part of a LABOUR government in 1984 with David Lange , who LEFT Labour because of Douglases and the Business round tables intervention AFTER Andy Kriegler bought pretty much ALL of NZ money , then dumped it back ont he market , causing all &'($$### to break loose ,

Douglas jumped in with Lassie-faire policies which were the rage at the time after Marget and the actor removed the currency controls to try and kick start their own economies

The result of which left an ill prepared NZ people struggling to find what was left of those traditional Kiwi values

Yes there were ineffieciencies ( the railways ,) but they employed a lot of people , ( meaning ful work give people hope and security ) , but as was said we handled the transition badly ( Australia did slightly better )

As a result we have a HUGE under class , a lost generation and will reap the rewards

I left NZ in 1984 . It was a great place to Live , didnt have a care in the world ,, Came back in 1993 and it was a spiteful country , the attitudes had changed from a caring... help the other person.... to an Im all right jack sort of a place ...

Who do I blame ... The business round table for lining their own pockets at the expense of the common man , and the common man for not DOING anything

We had more reaction to the Springbox tour than to the present douglas gave us ......( yes I was at Lancaster park and no I didnt watch the rugby ,,,:innocent:)


Acc could be a fantastic scheme again ,,,10 years ago it needed a 1 cent increase on taxes to be like the original idea,, a no faults fully funded insurance ,,,, Now we have under educated people working on the killing chain , with blunt knives getiing cartunnel ( sp ) syndrome and being sacked becasuse they cannot keep the line speed , or poultry workers getiing Champlterbacter ( sp ) disease and going off work , but being told by work and income that thety cannot receive any money because they are not officially Ill .....

Dont worry about Labour /National . thats the shop front , worry who has influence over the money , If gibbs, kerr and co are anywhere near it ,,,RUN



Stephen

[Forest]

Roger douglas ( lower case ) was indeed part of a LABOUR government in 1984 with David Lange , who LEFT Labour because of Douglases and the Business round tables intervention AFTER Andy Kriegler bought pretty much ALL of NZ money , then dumped it back ont he market , causing all &'($$### to break loose ,

Your timelines are wrong.

Roger Douglas was a Labour MP right from 1969 to 1990. He resigned from Labour and didn't stand for re-election in the 1990 election.

Lange didn't leave parliament until 1996. So clearly he didn't leave in response to Douglas.



Douglas jumped in with Lassie-faire policies which were the rage at the time after Marget and the actor removed the currency controls to try and kick start their own economies.

Again. Your timelines are wrong.

The UK Pound was floated in the early 1970s and the US Dollar was floated in 1975. Neither event had anything to do with Margaret Thatcher or Ronald Reagan.



The result of which left an ill prepared NZ people struggling to find what was left of those traditional Kiwi values

Yes there were ineffieciencies ( the railways ,) but they employed a lot of people , ( meaning ful work give people hope and security ) , but as was said we handled the transition badly ( Australia did slightly better )

As a result we have a HUGE under class , a lost generation and will reap the rewards

I left NZ in 1984 . It was a great place to Live , didnt have a care in the world ,, Came back in 1993 and it was a spiteful country , the attitudes had changed from a caring... help the other person.... to an Im all right jack sort of a place ...

In 1993 you would have seen the effects of Ruth Richardson scaling back the welfare state (which we could no longer afford).

I remember the anger also - but I remember the angry as mainly being haters and wreckers.



Who do I blame ... The business round table for lining their own pockets at the expense of the common man , and the common man for not DOING anything

We had more reaction to the Springbox tour than to the present douglas gave us ......( yes I was at Lancaster park and no I didnt watch the rugby ,,,:innocent:)


Acc could be a fantastic scheme again ,,,10 years ago it needed a 1 cent increase on taxes to be like the original idea,, a no faults fully funded insurance ,,,, Now we have under educated people working on the killing chain , with blunt knives getiing cartunnel ( sp ) syndrome and being sacked becasuse they cannot keep the line speed , or poultry workers getiing Champlterbacter ( sp ) disease and going off work , but being told by work and income that thety cannot receive any money because they are not officially Ill .....

Dont worry about Labour /National . thats the shop front , worry who has influence over the money , If gibbs, kerr and co are anywhere near it ,,,RUN

I'm not worried about the Business Round Table. I'm more worried about the Unions since they're significantly better funded and, unlike business groups, the Unions participate directly in the political system.

The 19 largest Unions in New Zealand have a combined annual income of around 73 million dollars a year and assets of around 92 million dollars.

The largest business groups in NZ (including the Round Table) have a combined annual income of around 38 million dollars and assets of around 63 million dollars.

source (http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2008/11/the_big_money_in_politics.html)

[NighthawkNZ]

Well Destiny Church must have some pretty boring parties.

Seriously, I just wanted a party that would scrap the Kyoto crap, this emission trading bs, is going to haunt us long after this perceived recession comes and goes. :angry2: :crybaby:

I agree with you there... the Kyoto protocol is the biggest waste of time and effort and has done nothing and will do nothing for the planet as a whole...

Opps we are over our emissions allowance ... no problem we just buy more... how does that make a country change their ways...

don't get me started on global warming either.... :angry2: and I thought these scientists were suppose to be good scientists :innocent:

[NighthawkNZ]

Yes there were ineffieciencies ( the railways ,) but they employed a lot of people , ( meaning ful work give people hope and security )

The old railways... if you couldn't get a job else where work for the railways, the goverment will pay me a wage for looking like I am working but actually doing nothing... Back then it was more like the work for dole scheme than the actual work for dole scheme was. Also back then the railways was costing millions a year to run and was not turning a profit... Why own a business if it costing you.

It was full of crimms, I don't know how many items were stolen from carrages... and heard heaps of stories... I know some of our stuff was when we moved and used the railways to move house. It needed privatisation to be turned around to be come streamlined.

Shit I remember when the Post Office wanted to first put the price of a stamp up to $50c... every one complained... that it would make to much money for a state owned enterprise... FFS get a grip. That money is spent on upgrading sorting equipment, and in turn the tax and GST goes back into Government pocket for your school and health... (In theory of course)

[trustme]

I left NZ in 1984 . It was a great place to Live , didnt have a care in the world ,, Came back in 1993 and it was a spiteful country

We had more reaction to the Springbox tour than to the present douglas gave us ......( yes I was at Lancaster park and no I didnt watch the rugby ,,,:innocent:)

Acc could be a fantastic scheme again
Stephen

I apologise for being somewhat selective with quotes from your post But
I don't remember pre 1984 with any great fondness

A devisive & bullying prime minister, who sent us broke
Wage & price freezes
Unions striking continuously, remember the ferries every school holidays.
A nation still split over the Springbok tour
A government that tried to control every facet of the economy with inport licenses, tarriffs, protections & subsidies

I did like my Hillman Super Minx though, mum hated it & made me park it down the road, It got stolen but the thief left it undamaged in the next suburb.
It was all I could afford , no Jap imports in those days, Those were the days. Yeah right

As an employer I was a hell of a lot better off when I went with the private ACC option that Labour got rid of

[Pixie]

We now have a govt comprising of people who have worked for a living.

As opposed to one that comprised of people who have aspired to do as little work as possible ( union activists and academics )

[Pixie]

No principles? What a load of over-generalising crap. Sounds like jealousy of wealth and success to me.

He's a pinko,what do you expect?

[Clockwork]

As an employer I was a hell of a lot better off when I went with the private ACC option that Labour got rid of

you may have been but were your employees?

[NighthawkNZ]

you may have been but were your employees?


having been both in the last few years... I would have been both as an employer and employee

[trustme]

having been both in the last few years... I would have been both as an employer and employee

Thankyou, same experience.

[alanzs]

We now have a govt comprising of people who have worked for a living.

As opposed to one that comprised of people who have aspired to do as little work as possible ( union activists and academics )

And I am sure we all consider Key a working man. And I am sure that they will have the best interest of the working man in everything thing they do. Yeah right. :no:

[MotoGirl]

And I am sure we all consider Key a working man. And I am sure that they will have the best interest of the working man in everything thing they do. Yeah right. :no:

And Helen Clark, the woman who has only ever studied and worked lecturing politics, understood the working class better? She was elected into parliament in 1981 (the year I was born) so it's no wonder she didn't have a clue considering it's now 27 years later.

[Finn]

10 minutes after voting, I was at the lights and witnessed this atrocity. I took the opportunity to wave in a "bye bye" fashion and got the most sour look back.

Thanks for nothing Helen.

[Skyryder]

By and large I agree with what you say, Skyryder does have a supply of good drugs, however privatisation of public services does not always work .
Take for example Bradfords deregulation of the power industry, did our power bills go down? , did they fuck!! It was a bullshit model & I could never see it resulting in lower prices & I think history bears me out.
The tertiary education system is run on a semi commercial basis, we have a bunch of private service providers all sucking on the public tit courtesy of student loans, is it really value for the money we pour in.?
We dont need to privatise,we need to streamline & cut out the BS
We have replaced commonsense with paperwork & bull shit, nobody wants to do anything they just want to clip the ticket on the way past.


If you go to the trouble and read my post you will 'note' that it was the 'public services' that my comments were directed at. Good drugs?? Nope but I can give you the name of my optician.

Skyryder

[Lias]

I voted National Elctorate, and ACT Party vote. I'm not particularly hopeful for this government, I trust John Key about as far as I can throw him and find him entirely too centrist for my liking.

I'm starting to think the only way were going to get a decent government is a coup d'etat and start shipping all the commie labour/green supporters to gulags.

[MisterD]

Just for a giggle, Danyl over at the Dim-post (http://dimpost.wordpress.com/2008/11/10/tizard-dismisses-rogue-election-result/) is at his satirical best on the demise of the Minister for Swanning Around Doing Nothing.

[Swoop]

10 minutes after voting, I was at the lights and witnessed this atrocity. I took the opportunity to wave in a "bye bye" fashion and got the most sour look back.

Thanks for nothing Helen.
That is scary.
The driver looks a lot like Rob Muldoon...

[madbikeboy]

I wouldn't be surprised if you're right. And I'm sure Mr Putin will be watching closely. If he flinches - bye-bye Georgia, Azerbijan, whateverelsestan.

I'll bet Turkey is watching too. I wouldn't take bets on Kurdistan .

I don't think he's got the balls for it, m'self, but I may be wrong, I thought JFK was a spoiled rich kid wimp.

He was. They had good intelligence on the Russians which made them confident enough to keep pushing for the backdown.

[Pussy]

10 minutes after voting, I was at the lights and witnessed this atrocity. I took the opportunity to wave in a "bye bye" fashion and got the most sour look back.

Thanks for nothing Helen.
You got a good camera, Finn! Pretty good quality shot, especially if the car was doing 180km/h....

[trustme]

If you go to the trouble and read my post you will 'note' that it was the 'public services' that my comments were directed at. Good drugs?? Nope but I can give you the name of my optician.

Skyryder

I did read your post , I understand what you are saying, sort of, labour has grown the public service, for no discernable improvement in results & it is all the free markets fault.
I dont recall Key saying he would sell ACC , Schools or Health , please provide evidence of such statements.
Personally I would be happy to have an ability to opt out of ACC for a private scheme
I would welcome the return of bulk funding, people I spoke to that were at the pointy end of running schools seemed to like it.
If the public health system can't cope & the private system is able to offer services to reduce the overloading of the public system , I don't see a problem. There are plenty of people who would be dead if they relied on the public system
I have a friend who had a heart problem, public system said 12 months , the spcialist said do it now. Mate was cashed up after his divorce so he went private & paid. The surgeon said after the op "bloody lucky , you didnt have 12 months left",
Nasty, nasty money grubbing private sector.:msn-wink::msn-wink:

[Newblade]

Politics,Religion.Really dont want to discuss either.BUT what really pisses me off is those of YOU that originate from another country and have the fucken gumption to run our country down..
If you dont like things in N.Z then FUCK OFF TO WHERE EVER YOU CAME FROM.:crybaby:
As for a motorcycle gear supplier venting his opions on here.Good for business I dont think so.Cause I out of principal will not purchase from such,
And I reiterate my decision has nothing to do with any political party.
Just dont throw your opinions in my face and expect my money!!

Bring back Magilly Cuddy Serious

[MisterD]

Politics,Religion.Really dont want to discuss either.BUT what really pisses me off is those of YOU that originate from another country and have the fucken gumption to run our country down..
If you dont like things in N.Z then FUCK OFF TO WHERE EVER YOU CAME FROM.:crybaby:

Oh belt up. I married a Kiwi, I'm bringing up a family here and I pay my f-ing taxes. That entitles me to a voice. If you want to put your fingers in your ears and chant "la la la, I can't hear you" that's fine by me.



As for a motorcycle gear supplier venting his opions on here.Good for business I dont think so.Cause I out of principal will not purchase from such,
And I reiterate my decision has nothing to do with any political party.
Just dont throw your opinions in my face and expect my money!!


What's that phrase about noses again? I would have thought the only things that actually matter in that respect are 1) the quality of the gear and 2) the quality of the service? (After all, Dick Hubbard is a wet weekend when it comes to politics, but his cereal isn't bad for all that...)

You're obviously a sensitive soul, so I recommend you stick to uncontroversial threads. :bye:

[Finn]

Oh this just gets better...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10542203

[Toaster]

.... Given John Key's background, and the sort of personal experience I've had in the business world with their ilk, I think this lot are going to be worse than Bolger/Shipley by a fair margin.

None of your rather verbose reply actually addressed my concern that you state Key has no principles... so points given for the political answer.

Just because a more right wing previous National Government did things that didn't help you out, it doesn't mean Key by default will do the same. He is more centrist that they were. His policies are far from those of the 1990's adn is doing what he can to distance himself from any influence of Roger's old economics.

[Newblade]

[QUOTE=MisterD;1804112]Oh belt up. I married a Kiwi, I'm bringing up a family here and I pay my f-ing taxes. That entitles me to a voice. If you want to put your fingers in your ears and chant "la la la, I can't hear you" that's fine by me.



Question did you vote ???? Are you entitled to vote ????


LMAO. I can assure you no sensitive soul here:lol:

[MisterD]

Question did you vote ???? Are you entitled to vote ????

Yes, and yes. Permanent resident, I'll have been here five years at Christmas...not getting citizenship, too much $$ for too little benefit and I am not ever going to swear allegiance to the Queen.

[Newblade]

Then you my friend have every right to have your say.
As for allegience to the Queen,I hear yah loud and clear.

Welcome!!

[Brian d marge]

I dont think so;

the reform thats that were being brought about were because of;
snip;

In 1979 the Conservative government of Margaret Thatcher lifted Britain's exchange controls. Investing institutions no longer risked penalties for investing overseas and capital flooded out of the country.

When Thatcher removed exchange controls, there was a predictable flood of funds abroad. This flood of investment funds out of the country coincided with the worst recession in British manufacturing since the 1930s.

same in NZ... ( You can see why think big wasn't the right thing at this time ,,,,,IMHO

snip

Commentators coined the term Rogernomics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogernomics) for these policies, drawing connections with Reaganomics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaganomics) and with Thatcherism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thatcherism). After the government's first term (1984-87), significant divisions started to form in the Labour parliamentary caucus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucus), with Lange becoming uncomfortable with the extent of the reforms, while Douglas and Richard Prebble (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Prebble) wanted to push on.


As to Andy Kreigler


Andrew Krieger attacked the NZ $ in the Autumn of 1987. Andrew Krieger left the Bankers Trust New York head quarters were he had served as the Global head for foreign exchange in February 1988.

This is all on record because it was a move that set Wall street mouths wagging because Andrew Krieger had become a legend as a result of his daring attack on the NZ $.


So Muldoon Using a Keynesian form of economics , if I remember rightly , uses government spending in the troughs to stilulate consumer spending ,,ie think big

Spent a bit of money , which left the Labour party in a financial hole , which by the end of their first trem they were going devalue , Krieger Speculated ,and lange left because of the pressures brought upon him By the likes of Kerr gibbs and Douglas


Stephen

Snippty Snip ...hows the fire ,,,lots of smoke I can see.......


ey was elected prime minister of New Zealand last weekend after his National Party achieved a crushing victory over the incumbent Labour government of Helen Clark.

The timing of his elevation, in the midst of a financial crisis, may be quite prophetic. After all, Key’s rise to prominence in foreign exchange circles came after he struck a rewarding relationship at Bankers Trust with Andy Krieger, a daring New York-based trader who launched a legendary raid against the NZ dollar in 1987.

Krieger reportedly bet more than the country’s entire money supply against the currency, forcing it down sharply and taking massive profits in what is still described as one of the finest forex plays ever completed.

Key’s role in this raid is not entirely clear. The timing of his arrival at BT suggests he might not have had a great deal to do with it, but he benefited from Krieger’s continuing interest in the currency, which helped Key lift BT to top of the local currency tables and attract interest from international investment banks.

New Zealand’s new leader also knows a lot about job losses, having by his own admission earned the reputation of being the “smiling assassin” during his short stint at the Sydney offices of Merrill Lynch in 2001 when he reportedly helped fire some 500 staff.

[Brian d marge]

I apologise for being somewhat selective with quotes from your post But
I don't remember pre 1984 with any great fondness

A devisive & bullying prime minister, who sent us broke
Wage & price freezes
Unions striking continuously, remember the ferries every school holidays.
A nation still split over the Springbok tour
A government that tried to control every facet of the economy with inport licenses, tarriffs, protections & subsidies

I did like my Hillman Super Minx though, mum hated it & made me park it down the road, It got stolen but the thief left it undamaged in the next suburb.
It was all I could afford , no Jap imports in those days, Those were the days. Yeah right

As an employer I was a hell of a lot better off when I went with the private ACC option that Labour got rid of


Ha I had a Grunta.... green with an AM radio !

Dont get me started on the unions ... I agree with the concept of unions , as that is the only thing the working man has got but unions need to work with the company ,,, the useless bunch of twits we have now need shooting ,, Driving round in a top of the range commodore , and effectively doing nothing AND pulling top wage ,,,is Not a union ,,,nor should anywone pay for these ineffectuals

yes and closed economies ,, Hmmm cant think of one that is doing well ... IF the workforce IS ALREADY UPSKILLED ..ie rocket scientist ,,then its ok to allow cheap manufacturing to enter ,,,but competeing head to head ,,,not if you want to keep the standard of living ... a low wage economey is people who cant spend ,,,

I like spending

I am unfamiliar with the ACC option that labour removed ,,, I had good care when I stacked me Honda 360 into a mini on Columbo st ..back in 82 ish .. ACC worked for me then !



Stephen

[Badjelly]

I'm starting to think the only way were going to get a decent government is a coup d'etat and start shipping all the commie labour/green supporters to gulags.

That's worked well in the past.

[jrandom]

He was. They had good intelligence on the Russians which made them confident enough to keep pushing for the backdown.

Good intelligence that failed to pick up on the fact that the Russians had already deployed 'tactical' battlefield nukes in Cuba already and were considering giving the area commander authority to use them at his discretion without further authorisation from Moscow if an invasion occurred?

The world really did teeter on the brink that time dude, no two ways about it.

[Brian d marge]

Politics,Religion.Really dont want to discuss either.BUT what really pisses me off is those of YOU that originate from another country and have the fucken gumption to run our country down..
If you dont like things in N.Z then FUCK OFF TO WHERE EVER YOU CAME FROM.:crybaby:


like I haven't heard that before ... I like NZ , it hasn't been good to me , made a bucket load more money outside the place , and can follow the life that i want to ... making bike parts ,,,
But I still have a large part of my heart for NZ ,,,and what pisses ME off is people who don't know how good they have things.... wasting it by doing NOTHING ...

The reason ( IMHO) why Nz isnt a bed of roses now ,,, is because a lot of people did NOTHING ..

Did you pay for you own air fee to go to wellington to try and stop the Student loan scheme going through ...I did
did you trapse around the streets handing out leaflet to inform people about Welfare reforms ..I did ..etc etc ...

Our family put up a chunk of money to try and get my mother to run for a seat , not to win but to take votes away from a looney that had a chance to get to the behive ,,, by taking the votes it allowed a better candidate to win ,,,which was better for our comunity ,,,still cost us a chunk of cash...

did you do that?????


While I dont agree with the Moari party ... they have my full support ,,,,because they got off their backside and got what they wanted ...

$13 dollars for a block of cheese :wari:

Still, mustnt grumble eh, rugby still of free to air

Stephen

[scumdog]

Well Destiny Church must have some pretty boring parties.

Seriously, I just wanted a party that would scrap the Kyoto crap, this emission trading bs, is going to haunt us long after this perceived recession comes and goes. :angry2: :crybaby:

Too true young Doc - all this Kyoto protocol crap will cost us money and make sweet f.a, difference to the total universe polution.:wacko:

And it won't be kind to the dinosaurs I choose to drive....:(

[alanzs]

Does anyone really, truly believe that big changes are going to occur because of the election? Only time will tell...

[James Deuce]

Does anyone really, truly believe that big changes are going to occur because of the election? Only time will tell...
God no!

Just subtle little ones that only affect minorities that no one cares about. You can save 10s of millions that way.

[Robert Taylor]

Oh this just gets better...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10542203

Finn, pity the boys in blue didnt capture another 5 - 10 seats to really rub it in. Especially if they were largely at the cost of that ''watermelon'' party.

[scracha]

If you dont like things in N.Z then FUCK OFF TO WHERE EVER YOU CAME


We pay our taxes, we're entitled to vote and we can run down any country that pisses us off so fuck off yourself you racist cunt.

[SARGE]

Are you on drugs?

Competition and choice reduces the size of the bureaucracy. Business managers don't allow the wastage and loss that takes place under state management

Privatisation does not raise costs. It creates incentives for companies to increase efficiency and improve service.


riight.. but managers also look for the cheapest way of getting things done.

case in point .. the Chinese and Haitian schools that recently collapsed were privately owned .. wanna bet some corners were cut in building them to cut costs?

in the States .. we have what are called HMO's - private health organizations that take the lowest bidders to treat patients .... been a mess since inception ( i think that Doctor on the Simpsons runs it now ...)

i am happy to pay extra for good service.. dont take my car to a cut rate panelbeater.. dont b uy discounted parachutes and dont use bargain brain surgeons ..

in the Marine Corps .. we had a saying ...

" never forget your Weapon was built by the lowest bidder"


EDIT... just found this ....


The owner of the school and church, Protestant minister Fortin Augustin, was arrested. Haitian President Rene Preval said the school, with an enrollment of 700, had been built with hardly any structural steel or cement to bind concrete blocks.

[Skyryder]

I did read your post , I understand what you are saying, sort of, labour has grown the public service, for no discernable improvement in results & it is all the free markets fault.
I dont recall Key saying he would sell ACC , Schools or Health , please provide evidence of such statements.
Personally I would be happy to have an ability to opt out of ACC for a private scheme
I would welcome the return of bulk funding, people I spoke to that were at the pointy end of running schools seemed to like it.
If the public health system can't cope & the private system is able to offer services to reduce the overloading of the public system , I don't see a problem. There are plenty of people who would be dead if they relied on the public system
I have a friend who had a heart problem, public system said 12 months , the spcialist said do it now. Mate was cashed up after his divorce so he went private & paid. The surgeon said after the op "bloody lucky , you didnt have 12 months left",
Nasty, nasty money grubbing private sector.:msn-wink::msn-wink:


Once you bring your persoanal life or those that you know into an arguement to support your position it's an admission of your inabilty to support your aguement with either logic or facts. Experiance has taught me that in this situation any opinion that is counter is in most cases taken personaly and I usually post no further on the subject

As to the evidence of my claims be patient. The Nats will eventully supply it for you.

Skyyrder

[trustme]

Once you bring your persoanal life or those that you know into an arguement to support your position it's an admission of your inabilty to support your aguement with either logic or facts. Experiance has taught me that in this situation any opinion that is counter is in most cases personaly and I usually post no further on the subject

As to the evidence of my claims be patient. The Nats will eventully supply it for you.

Skyyrder

Your good Skyryder . I ask you to provide some form of eviidence to back up your sweeping generalisations & baseless attacks , I provide evidence to support my opinion & yes some of it is anecdotal but it does support the arguement with both logic & fact,
Your posts indicate that you have only a nodding aquaintance with either logic or fact .
I look forward to your silence , but I suspect it won't last

[SARGE]

Your good Skyryder . I ask you to provide some form of eviidence to back up your sweeping generalisations & baseless attacks , I provide evidence to support my opinion & yes some of it is anecdotal but it does support the arguement with both logic & fact,
Your posts indicate that you have only a nodding aquaintance with either logic or fact .
I look forward to your silence , but I suspect it won't last

:argue::girlfight::corn:


ladies...ladies..... you're BOTH pretty..

[trustme]

Stop hitting on me you gay army boy.:laugh::laugh:

[cowpoos]

if ugly auntie helen had stepped down 6 months ago we'd still have a nice sensible labour govt instead of national who will sell everything off by lunchtime. people were just sick of her face, not labour's policies.

What makes you and many other people think national will sell everything off by lunch time??? are ya fucking dumb??

Remeber Labour selling the rails??? and then buying it back at a higher cost because it was making mone in private hands???

What does that tell you?? Buericrats can't run bussiness's...

So now we have a bussiness orientated governement again...things will run more efficeiently...and hope fully they won't bribe you with your own money [tax's] like this this working for families bullshit,et al...and tell you how to run your own life...allow you to make decisions...and hoplfully bring some common sense back into NZ life...

Oh dear I could go on..and don't get me started with the greens..

[tjwatt]

Well bren. You seem to have not much faith in who runs NZ. AS long as they bring down reg for Motorcycles who cares. Go hard Go fast

[SARGE]

Stop hitting on me you gay army boy.:laugh::laugh:

do i have room on "the List"?


yup..


strike one...

[davereid]

What makes you and many other people think national will sell everything off by lunch time??? are ya fucking dumb??


Sadly National have said they won't be selling F.All.

Hopefully ACT will have some influence there, and dodgy, costly, liabilities like the railway network will be bulldozed and turned into motorways so Idiots can never waste my money buying them back.

Remember that Toll was a publicly listed company. If you really thought it was worth buying, all you had to do was grab your EFTPOS card, and go buy some shares.

[alanzs]

God no!

Just subtle little ones that only affect minorities that no one cares about. You can save 10s of millions that way.

I agree with you. Everyone gets all whipped up into a frenzy, for nothing. Same general shit, different faces, more bravado and the same old crap...:2thumbsup

[James Deuce]

I agree with you. Everyone gets all whipped up into a frenzy, for nothing. Same general shit, different faces, more bravado and the same old crap...:2thumbsup

It's not for nothing dude. It does affect me. So, yeah, I'm not happy. But as I said, no one gives a toss about things that don't affect them any more, so it's my problem eh?

[James Deuce]

Sadly National have said they won't be selling F.All.

Hopefully ACT will have some influence there, and dodgy, costly, liabilities like the railway network will be bulldozed and turned into motorways so Idiots can never waste my money buying them back.

Remember that Toll was a publicly listed company. If you really thought it was worth buying, all you had to do was grab your EFTPOS card, and go buy some shares.

Rail infrastructure and sea ports are the key to a modern distribution network. Not roads. I think they should sell the roads and make them private and develop rail and shipping. Then you'd see some financial and carbon credit savings.

[Murray]

Well what would Goff and Annette King do in this situation??? The Labour Party have got to be joking if they think those two will raise their flagging mast. If they had been in before the election they would have lost by a helluva lot more.

RIP Labour

[Finn]

RIP Labour

Don't you mean RIH Labour?

[Murray]

Don't you mean RIH Labour?

I never speak ill of the dead (BUT YES)

[Newblade]

We pay our taxes, we're entitled to vote and we can run down any country that pisses us off so fuck off yourself you racist cunt.

Best you know someones heritage before you call them a racist cunt.

:Pokey::motu::finger:

Just so happens half my family came here in fucking canoes.

Racist ME ?????? fuck you, you piece of shit

[Finn]

Finn, pity the boys in blue didnt capture another 5 - 10 seats to really rub it in. Especially if they were largely at the cost of that ''watermelon'' party.

True. Perhaps a referendum on MMP is in order...

[Oscar]

Best you know someones heritage before you call them a racist cunt.

:Pokey::motu::finger:

Just so happens half my family came here in fucking canoes.

Racist ME ?????? fuck you, you piece of shit

Racist is as racist does.
Being a waka paddler don't make you immune...

[NighthawkNZ]

True. Perhaps a referendum on MMP is in order...

That is on the agenda with the next election I believe

[Robert Taylor]

What makes you and many other people think national will sell everything off by lunch time??? are ya fucking dumb??

Remeber Labour selling the rails??? and then buying it back at a higher cost because it was making mone in private hands???

What does that tell you?? Buericrats can't run bussiness's...

So now we have a bussiness orientated governement again...things will run more efficeiently...and hope fully they won't bribe you with your own money [tax's] like this this working for families bullshit,et al...and tell you how to run your own life...allow you to make decisions...and hoplfully bring some common sense back into NZ life...

Oh dear I could go on..and don't get me started with the greens..

Saturday night was a memorable night, hey where is Idle Lefty???

[jrandom]

Well, isn't the current situation interesting.

Rodney and Mr Dunne sniping at each other from the sidelines while Key suppresses giggles for long enough to pretend to love the brown man and builds a rather clever centrist power base.

My respect for Mr Key just grew ever so slightly...

[scracha]

Best you know someones heritage before you call them a racist cunt.

:Pokey::motu::finger:

Just so happens half my family came here in fucking canoes.

Racist ME ?????? fuck you, you piece of shit

So because half your family arrived a bit early that means anything you say can't possibly be racist? I imagine the original inhabitants may have ued phrases like "if you don't like it then fuck off back to your own country" too.

Face it, your choice phrase implies you're a racist cunt.

[cowpoos]

Saturday night was a memorable night, hey where is Idle Lefty???
oh yes....where is our friend idleiydleidolidolyiduidyloydydieidielduoilye??

[MisterD]

oh yes....where is our friend idleiydleidolidolyiduidyloydydieidielduoilye??

I didn't know you could yodel. :clap:

[davereid]

Rail infrastructure and sea ports are the key to a modern distribution network. Not roads. I think they should sell the roads and make them private and develop rail and shipping. Then you'd see some financial and carbon credit savings.

Sea Ports work very well in a hilly set of Islands like NZ. Even those run by the State seem to make a profit

But N.Z. Railways, Tranz-Rail, Wisconson Rail, and TOLL have all been punished by attempting to run a rail network here.

Fortunately, the good old kiwi tax-payer has always been there to bail them out.

[James Deuce]

But N.Z. Railways, Tranz-Rail, Wisconson Rail, and TOLL have all been punished by attempting to run a rail network here.



Yes, because the fools keep thinking that they can run a railway on a gauge that no one makes rolling stock for. They also think that NZ is tiny, so it can't be THAT expensive to run a really small rail network.

That's the thing with Infrastructure. Sometimes you have to rip it up and start again. Sometimes the ROI takes decades. Capitalists don't do decades. Neither do NZ Governments. Your argument has the standard short term gain requirement embedded in it, because you can't possibly imagine spending money on something that doesn't benefit you directly. That is exactly why poverty continues to grow everywhere.

[SARGE]

What??? No it isn't.

The Federal Reserve is an independent institution within the Federal Government that regulates the banking system, manages the money supply, and acts as the primary interface between the US Treasury and the private banking sector.

The only link to the private banking system is that the private banks operating within the US own stock within the twelve regional Federal Reserve Banks. This gives the private banks access to the Fed's retail and wholesale payments systems, FDIC insurance on deposits, and liquidity in financial emergencies. However the private banks have to submit to regulation and supervision by the Federal Reserve to access these facilities.

The Independent Treasury Act of 1921 suspended the de jure (meaning "by right of legal establishment") Treasury Department of the United States government. Our Congress turned the treasury department over to a private corporation, the Federal Reserve and their agents. The bulk of the ownership of the Federal Reserve System, a very well kept secret from the American Citizen, is held by these banking interests:

Rothschild Bank of London
Rothschild Bank of Berlin
Warburg Bank of Hamburg
Warburg Bank of Amsterdam
Lazard Brothers of Paris
Israel Moses Seif Banks of Italy
Chase Manhattan Bank of New York
Goldman, Sachs of New York
Lehman Brothers of New York
Kuhn Loeb Bank of New York