Chucking oil out the back?

[FROSTY]

Just aquired a 97 KDX200--all hotted up-hot pipe etc.
Last owner was running 35-40/ one oil
It sounds fine but its chucking good gobs of black oil out the back
Methinks theres a bit of unburned oil sitting in the chamber.
Ida thought unlikely to be oil ring

My thought is to bung some 45/1 in the tak and take her for a bloody good thrash
Could I have misssed summat here?

[Katman]

Ida thought unlikely to be oil ring


Ida think the same.

It's possible it could be sucking transmission oil past the crankshaft seal.

[Danger]

My thought is to bung some 45/1 in the tak and take her for a bloody good thrash


What are you hoping to achieve by doing that? It will still chuck oil until you replace the packing in the exhaust and sort the jetting out. In fact it will run even richer at 45/1 with the same jetting.

[FROSTY]

Ida think the same.

It's possible it could be sucking transmission oil past the crankshaft seal.
Yep I did wonder about that

What are you hoping to achieve by doing that? It will still chuck oil until you replace the packing in the exhaust and sort the jetting out. In fact it will run even richer at 45/1 with the same jetting.
if not as katman said I thought one possibility is that the bikes been run at low RPM with too much oil for awhile and has oiled up the pipe--a good run with the right mixture and if its stopped pumping oil I know whats happened.--The last owner was er intimidated by the bike

[Danger]

Is it blowing heaps of white smoke? Thats a sign the crank seal has gone I believe (I've never personally blown one).

What I'm trying to say is if its been blowing oil out the back all the exhaust packing will be oil soaked and it will continue to spit oil until its changed, you will not burn it off as the exhaust gasses are too cool by the time they reach the muffler. You will make it worse richening the mixure by decreasing the oil content. More unburnt fuel will make its way through the expansion chamber and out the muffler and carry the oil thats within it. Unless you change the jetting and replace the muffler packing it will continue to spit oil.:yes:

[riffer]

Why not eliminate the whole issue by removing the pipe, filling it with petrol, leaving it sitting for a while, then pouring most of it out, then setting the rest on fire?

Used to work for me when I was a teenager. Have things changed that much?

[Pedrostt500]

I used to have to clean out two stroke exaust pipes for farm bikes, that had gummed up from mostly alot of low rpm running, by using Oxy Acetalene tourch, you have to be carefull not to blow holes in the exaust pipe, it will require repainting after this though, and it is not as easy as it sounds it does require a little skill to do.

[Kickaha]

I used to have to clean out two stroke exaust pipes for farm bikes, that had gummed up from mostly alot of low rpm running, by using Oxy Acetalene tourch, you have to be carefull not to blow holes in the exaust pipe, it will require repainting after this though, and it is not as easy as it sounds it does require a little skill to do.

If you do it correctly it is quite possible to create enough smoke that the neighbours from a couple of houses down might wander up your driveway to make sure your house isn't on fire:cool:

We used to use the oxy torch to get all the crap burning, then use a air duster to blow through at the same time, very good results

[Ktmboy]

What are you hoping to achieve by doing that? It will still chuck oil until you replace the packing in the exhaust and sort the jetting out. In fact it will run even richer at 45/1 with the same jetting.

Too true. This only richens the mixture.

Jetting or maybe a change to a good spark plug would be the go, couple with a muffler repack. Easy things first.

Its still running OK tho isn't it?

[Ixion]

Start easy hot, and idle reliably when hot ? If so, unlikely to be a blown seal
Fiddling around with the oil ratio won't achieve anything (except maybe seize it)


You might want to check that oil ring though, I have heard rumours that there were some of that model , there was a massive cockup in manufacturing and they completely forgot to fit one. Could account for your problems, eh.Just drop the pipe, and have a squizz up the exhaust port. while slowly turning the engine. If you don't see an oil ring, bingo. Hot foot it down to the Kawasaki agents and tell them you want a replacement piston WITH OIL RING, pronto. Don't let them put you off with cock and bull stories, it's just Kawasaki trying to keep their stuffup secret.

Otherwise, how much do you hate your neighbours. Oxy torch, set the zorst on fire then feed in oxygen and watch the pretty red band move down the pipe. Or, the pipe melt in half as the case may be. Alternatively you can poison half the neighbouring watertable with caustic soda. Just make sure that kids are kept way way away from either method. And watch the caustic it can be really nasty stuff.

But have you tried the simplest solution of all. Rape it. Repeatedly. All two strokes are sluts.

[Ixion]

If you do it correctly it is quite possible to create enough smoke that the neighbours from a couple of houses down might wander up your driveway to make sure your house isn't on fire:cool:

..

My neighbours called the fire brigade just because I had Petal running in the driveway, burning out the oil that had settled in the crankcases. Sheesh.

[FROSTY]

I live in the middle of an industrial area (sorta) so at night I have no neighbours.
Thanks Danger I forgot the packing wouldnt get hot
Um ixion--er if it hasn't had the head n barrel off at least once by now id be bloody amazed

[Reckless]

Jeepers never read so much crap in all my life (except dangers comments which are correct).
Now lets get this straight a modern 2 smoker MX engine doesn't have oil rings as such because they need 2 stroke oil in the crank to lube the bottom end. They have compression rings either one or two.

Never heard of a leaking crankcase seal which leaks oil into the combustion area as the crank and cylinder are generally completely separate chambers because of the casing design. The gearbox is driven from outside the combustion chamber via the crank which has the clutch basket hanging off it! The input shaft is on this side and the output shaft(with the drive sprocket on it) is on the other side with the gearbox in between. If the crank seals where leaking enough to let the little bath of oil in the clutch side into the cylinder you'd be loosing so much compression it prob wouldn't go.

When you stuff the rings in a 2 smoker you loose compression only, it generally doesn't blow any more smoke than normal!

Getting back to you Frosty.
Danger is correct you have a jetting problem probably in the idle, needle low end area if its dripping 2 stroke oil out of the can and still running ok. I would take the carb to bits, check the float level, Idle jet and needle against factory settings. Make a decision from there! Also check the plug is not a few ranges to cold. Go back to factory here as well so you know the fuel mix is being burnt ok.
Secondly Danger is also correct. The can is oil soaked and needs repacking. MR motocycles have SilentSport packing at $15 bucks a bag. Its good shit just take it off, take the stinger out make sure all the holes in it are clear and clean then repack it. Burning it out while its on the bike with a gas torch will only fuck it. I would suggest repack it after you have solved the jetting so the new stuff doesn't get in the same state.
Probably an hours work each and a jet or two!! You may even solve it by the correct plug and moving the needle down a clip or so.
My sons KX85 was deliberatly tuned a bit rich with a drip or two out of the can each ride to take the sting out of it. Just don't run it so rich you get bore wash and glaze it up!
Good luck!

[The Stranger]

Used to work for me when I was a teenager. Have things changed that much?

Shit yeah, I'm fatter, lazier and balding. When I hit the piss hard I no longer feel like drinking all the next day and I can only get it up 3 times a night now - without doing a neo.

Still tougher than most of the teenagers these days anyway, so it's not all bad.

[Katman]

Blah, blah, blah........

Fuck, you're a scream. Couldn't see a wind up if it poked you in the fucking eye.

(And yes, crankshaft seals can leak. You don't lose compression through them - air or oil is sucked into the crankcase under vacuum).

[Kickaha]

(And yes, crankshaft seals can leak. You don't lose compression through them -air or oil is sucked into the crankcase under vacuum).

I'd second that, I've seen a guy blowing a smoke screen a WW2 destroyer would have been happy with and not suffering any lack of performance, it did use most of the gearbox oil to finish the race though

[kezzafish]

there's a shitload of roadbiking shit stirrers in offroad and i fear it's my fault for posting bullshit threads, i'm sorry. Frosty... take the advice that is obviously correct... that of the DIRTBIKE riding OGs

[Reckless]

Fuck, you're a scream. Couldn't see a wind up if it poked you in the fucking eye..

You wrote that as a wind up??.. "Yeah Right".Tui!!..Nice guy!!:whocares:

[Katman]

You wrote that as a wind up??.. "Yeah Right".Tui!!..Nice guy!!:whocares:

I wrote what?

Go back and read post #2.

:tugger:

[Reckless]

I'd second that, I've seen a guy blowing a smoke screen a WW2 destroyer would have been happy with and not suffering any lack of performance, it did use most of the gearbox oil to finish the race though

Yeh mate! I accept it can happen would have been funny to watch, but it would be most unlikely given Frosties Post.

What I posted was supposed to be informative and helpful (Its the way we are here) rather than the way Crapman takes everything. But we'll leave Crapman to his crapworld! I'm not going there!

[Katman]

Never heard of a leaking crankcase seal which leaks oil into the combustion area as the crank and cylinder are generally completely separate chambers because of the casing design. The gearbox is driven from outside the combustion chamber via the crank which has the clutch basket hanging off it! The input shaft is on this side and the output shaft(with the drive sprocket on it) is on the other side with the gearbox in between. If the crank seals where leaking enough to let the little bath of oil in the clutch side into the cylinder you'd be loosing so much compression it prob wouldn't go.





What I posted was supposed to be informative and helpful

Really?

Sounds to me like you barely understand the two stroke process.

[Reckless]

Ok Frosty your choice now buddy check the carb etc as Danger and I suggest or go the crapman way do the crank seals.

I've just about had enough of KB for one day:rolleyes:
Off to Def Leppard with my boy!!!!:2thumbsup:woohoo:

[dammad1]

I've blown a crank seal before and it generally will make the bike run like shit.

[warewolf]

I would suggest repack it after you have solved the jetting so the new stuff doesn't get in the same state.Question; will the state of the packing affect the jetting? In other words, is it worth having good clean packing in there when you do the jetting?

[tommorth]

severly oiled packing could effectivly make the stinger longer and affect the jetting

crank seals can leak oil into the crankcase its not that uncommon xens bike did it not so longago
much easyer to clean swap the packing and check the carb/jetting first than change the crankseals especialy if you change them only to find it was the jetting afterwards

[cheese]

My Rm leaked oil into the crank, that was a Suzuki though... Fucking Shitzukis.

Anyway I'd check the packing first. My CR has quite a oily exhaust, but it runs fine. I'd not worry about it unless its running like shit.

[tommorth]

severly oiled packing could effectivly make the stinger longer and affect the jetting

crank seals can leak oil into the crankcase its not that uncommon
much easyer to clean swap the packing and check the carb/jetting first than change the crankseals especialy if you change them only to find it was the jetting afterwards

[Katman]

Ok Frosty your choice now buddy check the carb etc as Danger and I suggest or go the crapman way do the crank seals.



FFS man - can you tell the difference between these two comments?

(a) "It's possible that the crankshaft seal is leaking" and......
(b) "Do the crank seals!"

[Reckless]

FFS man - can you tell the difference between these two comments?

(a) "It's possible that the crankshaft seal is leaking" and......
(b) "Do the crank seals!"

Oh shit Mustive mis-read your post!! Yeeha! Now thats a wind up!! :laugh:


You Are Totally Wired aren't you? Relax man its Friday!!:2guns:

[Rupe]

whats a kdx ment to run standard. I thought it was 32:1, but maybe someone could check in a manual.

[CM2005]

does your KDX run pre mix then?? mine was a jap import?? and ran with an oil tank autolube system.

[theblacksmith]

whats a kdx ment to run standard. I thought it was 32:1, but maybe someone could check in a manual.
I run mine on 32-1 -after asking the nice staff at Hamilton Motorcycles(Kawasaki)
They reckon all Kawasaki 2T should be run on 32-1.
Never had any problems - just cleaned my expansion chamber out(by cutting through weld and scraping it all out and rewelding) it was sooty carbon and no oily shit.
However the deposits in the rear muffler are a wee bit oilier(cooler environment i suppose),Im happy with the way she goes.

[theblacksmith]

does your KDX run pre mix then?? mine was a jap import?? and ran with an oil tank autolube system.
Mine has a pump for autolube-I think the last owner must have scrapped the oil tank - Ive always used pre-mix since Ive had the bike.

[FROSTY]

ANYHOOO----- I ripped the packing outa the muffler. Hmm enuff oil to run a car for a week in there. remove the whole zorst -tipped it up and glugg glugg etc.
Threw a new plug in her and bolted all back together again
Half a tank of 40/1 and lets see what happens.
First off still smokey/oily. . Then got her fairly hot with use of high rpm
Well ferk me now we have normal two stroke smoke
That all done and feeling pretty smug was I
A young guy rocks up to the yard and makes an offer to buy I couldn't refuse. He reckoned his dad was a bike spanner man so no worries.
Next thing I get a call from daddyo-Oyy what didya do to this thing??
Hu says I --Daddyo then tells me it goes like a friggin raped ape.
Trouble is not I got no friggin bike AGAIN
Anyone got a trailee for sale???

[flyingcr250]

Mine has a pump for autolube-I think the last owner must have scrapped the oil tank - Ive always used pre-mix since Ive had the bike.

i hate oil pumps my old 91 kdx250 use an oil pump and it stopped working resulting in a siezed motorbike. i have to my muffler packing soon its starting to sound a bit muffled.

[theblacksmith]

i hate oil pumps my old 91 kdx250 use an oil pump and it stopped working resulting in a siezed motorbike. i have to my muffler packing soon its starting to sound a bit muffled.
Pre mixing does give some peace of mind aye.

[flyingcr250]

theres alway a human element needed to keep machines running. theres no way to tell if the pump is working properly with out taking half the bike apart. but yea i wouldnt not use pre-mix

[barty5]

ANYHOOO----- I ripped the packing outa the muffler. Hmm enuff oil to run a car for a week in there. remove the whole zorst -tipped it up and glugg glugg etc.
Threw a new plug in her and bolted all back together again
Half a tank of 40/1 and lets see what happens.
First off still smokey/oily. . Then got her fairly hot with use of high rpm
Well ferk me now we have normal two stroke smoke
That all done and feeling pretty smug was I
A young guy rocks up to the yard and makes an offer to buy I couldn't refuse. He reckoned his dad was a bike spanner man so no worries.
Next thing I get a call from daddyo-Oyy what didya do to this thing??
Hu says I --Daddyo then tells me it goes like a friggin raped ape.
Trouble is not I got no friggin bike AGAIN
Anyone got a trailee for sale???

well that didnt last long then did it.

[barty5]

Pre mixing does give some peace of mind aye.

Sure dose was the first thing i threw out on my jet ski when i had it last thing you would ever want was a oil pump that gave up the go while out in the harbour.

[krad_nz]

Hmmm, interesting thread.
I've recently got my hands on a 2006 KDX200 and I've fouled two plugs now. Running 40:1 with one heat range hotter plug.

My exhaust has nice oil drips running out the end.... Its possible that I've got the same problem. Might take the pipe off and try the petrol trick.
Its not really smoky while riding either. Just typical 2t smoke.

Plug fouled today after starting it up with the choke on. After about 20sec of revs I removed the choke and rev'ed it a couple of times. Then I left it idling for a couple of mins while faffing around with gear etc. I then rode to sign in for the ride. So far so good...

Went about 100m into a trail and ended up getting off to help some poor kid on a quad up a sandy hill. Once he was sussed I launched my bike up and then it all went to shit. Wouldn't idle etc. I could hear it missing. Giving it more throttle didn't do anything, just more missing etc.

So I ended up changing the plug there and continuing on my way. Pisser-offer though.

Should I not let it idle for minutes at a time while cold? I would love to know if I'm doing something fundamentally wrong. The rest of the ride was sweet, no problems, went really good.

I've only had a 4t before this. Is there some sort of special 2t ritual that I don't know about. Note: both times I've fouled a plug has been when starting a ride at the begining of a trail ride. Once its warm its sweet.

[Danger]

Why is this always so hard? You need to sort your jetting out, its too rich.:bash:

First try setting your air screw, back it out an 1/8 of a turn at a time but generally don't go past 2 1/2 turns out and listen for a lean rattle or high idle and come back if you go too far. Its possible the pilot jet is too rich. Off course a two stroke should be able to warm up and idle as normal if jetted correctly.
There have been so many posts about jetting just this year and if you can't use the search function, later on today I will search them out and post all the links. Even the content of this thread should tell you that you need to sort out your jetting. Its only going to get worse with the warmer weather.
I think we need a jetting sticky in the off road section to guide all these people towards.

[Danger]

Here you go read this thread http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?p=1630932#post1630932 and on the first page there are links to a further 3 threads regarding jetting from earlier this year. Lots to read but some good info and should hopefully set you on the right track (once you sort the wheat from the chaff lol).

[krad_nz]

Cheers Danger. I figured it wouldn't be the jetting as its a fairly new bike and 'should just work' from the factory? It has a pro-circuit pipe which I guess could screw things up a bit?

Of course I'm assuming that the previous owner didn't fiddle with it at all. Another interesting point is that when I first got the bike it wouldn't idle unless you gave it a little bit of throttle. So I adjusted the idle which I'm assuming is the air screw you mention. Maybe this wasn't such a good idea.

Forgive my 2t ignorance. :P

[Danger]

No the idle screw and air screw are seperate.
As the weather gets warmer your bike will run richer so you need to adjust the air screw (and perhaps other jets) leaner.
Most bikes come jetted too rich for safety.
As the weather gets cooler your bike runs leaner, so you need to richen it.
On all my two strokes I have both a winter set of jets and a summer set of jets.
The air screw might need adjusting daily for changes in temp and humidity.

[warewolf]

Here you go read this thread http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?p=1630932#post1630932 and on the first page there are links to a further 3 threads regarding jetting Cheers fellah! Great info.

[rok-the-boat]

I used to take the baffles out and fill the pipe with diluted-ish caustic soda. Bung one end with a potato. Leave it a few hours. Worked fine for me - but you'll need gloves, and wash your hands too, and wear old clothes.

[tommorth]

krad kdxs run notoriously bad jetting from the factory for saftys sake is the excuse

try http://kdxrider.net/forums/index.php

they are quite helpful and seem know a lot about kdxs

have read through dangers link some good info there must have tacken a bit of time to type that all out good stuff

theres a thread on the ktm talk page about wet oil line jetting has anyone got any thoughts on it??

[tommorth]

haha followed another one one of those links and theres rather a lot on wet oil line jetting

[krad_nz]

Yeah I think I've sussed out my problem.

Air screw was set to about 1 turn. I've adjusted it out to 2 turns and changed my riding style a bit. This meant I had to reduce the idle as a consequence which means it was running fairly rich.

Over all, this has eliminated the oily crap exiting the exhaust. So far so good.

I read through Dangers links. Thanks heaps mate!

[flyingcr250]

I used to take the baffles out and fill the pipe with diluted-ish caustic soda. Bung one end with a potato. Leave it a few hours. Worked fine for me - but you'll need gloves, and wash your hands too, and wear old clothes.

i did the same thing on my old 91 kdx250 tank which is steel, it cleaned out the rust pretty good, think i used a bit much though as the tank got pretty hot ha ha ha

[cs363]

Yeah I think I've sussed out my problem.

Air screw was set to about 1 turn. I've adjusted it out to 2 turns and changed my riding style a bit. This meant I had to reduce the idle as a consequence which means it was running fairly rich.

Over all, this has eliminated the oily crap exiting the exhaust. So far so good.

I read through Dangers links. Thanks heaps mate!


KDX200's all needed rejetting for NZ, I think the factory jetting was aimed at the US market or something as are most of the bikes we get - virtually all bikes we get here whether two or four stroke will require some tinkering with the carb (jets and/or needles) to get them running properly for our conditions.
KDX's also benefit from either removing or opening up the airbox lid (and throwing away the snorkel) as these are very restrictive. Though I would caution this would depend on where and how you ride as if you spend all your time riding through rivers etc., this may not be a good move, lol.

PM Scott411 and he can let you know the correct jetting for the KDX with the Pro Circuit pipe (I forget it's been a while since I had one!)
A properly set up KDX is a huge difference from the way they come out of the box.

[krad_nz]

Interesting.
A mate of mine knows one of the guys from Mr Motorcycles (Kawasaki/Suzuki dealer) and got in touch with them. Apparently they've sold lots and lots of KDX's over the years so should know what they're talking about.

He asked if they needed modifying for use in NZ and if after fitting the ProCircuit system they required re-jetting etc. They basically said that they were setup fine factory and that I should check the air screw and ride the bike a bit more aggressively. So I've made some adjustments and so far so good. Typically it was fouling a plug about every 3 rides. So the next ride for me will be the true test.
My bike is def a USA imported model as the odometer is in miles. Not sure if they are all like that or not though.

cs363: I'll get in touch with Scott411 and see what he has to say :) Thanks for your advice.

[cs363]

Interesting.
A mate of mine knows one of the guys from Mr Motorcycles (Kawasaki/Suzuki dealer) and got in touch with them. Apparently they've sold lots and lots of KDX's over the years so should know what they're talking about.

He asked if they needed modifying for use in NZ and if after fitting the ProCircuit system they required re-jetting etc. They basically said that they were setup fine factory and that I should check the air screw and ride the bike a bit more aggressively. So I've made some adjustments and so far so good. Typically it was fouling a plug about every 3 rides. So the next ride for me will be the true test.
My bike is def a USA imported model as the odometer is in miles. Not sure if they are all like that or not though.

cs363: I'll get in touch with Scott411 and see what he has to say :) Thanks for your advice.

That IS interesting seeing as Scott is one of the owners of that shop!!! :eek5: (Maybe something got lost in translation?!)

When I had my KDX's the shop was owned by Mike Ramsey and Scott used to work there, lol
It may be that they changed the jetting on later models (my last one was a '97) though I'd doubt it. Both of the KDX's I had ran Pro Circuit pipes and silencers and definitely benefitted from the jetting & airbox mods. We also ran the oil at 40:1 (synthetic oil) and the bikes ran really clean.

[krad_nz]

Well I was standing by the guy when he rang them so he relayed the info pretty quickly. Sounds like I need to follow it up though.

Mine is an 06. Who knows :)

[cs363]

Well I was standing by the guy when he rang them so he relayed the info pretty quickly. Sounds like I need to follow it up though.

Mine is an 06. Who knows :)

Lol,weird - be interesting to know what Scott tells you, keep us informed and good luck with it. The KDX is a great all rounder - heaps of fun :)

[Reckless]

Gotta agree with CS363 here Krad.
Firstly your bike is fouling plugs every three rides so that alone is an indication it needs a bit of tweaking.
Secondly you can have different jetting summer to winter or Sea level to taupo if you want the thing to be bang on the button.
Changing the Pipe and silencer would definitely have an effect on the jetting if you want it to go best, not just go at all. Almost every aftermarket pipe manufacturer has alternative jetting for there pipes on their Web sites
You also say its a US import so where from tuned for the desert, grand cannon or the coast.

In saying the above I don't tune mine like I did my kart. It has one setting which delivers the power how I like and doesn't fowl plugs, starts every time. It has more power than I can handle so I'm happy with that. I would guess you would be happy with the same. After reading your posts you really need to get someone that can teach you how to read a used plug and make the relevant changes to to the carb.
If you want it to go top notch read Dangers recommendations on plug reading new plugs for top performance on the other threads.

[krad_nz]

To be honest at this point in my riding I'd be happy with jetting that is 'good enough'.

Yeah I've read Dangers links. I don't want to start messing around with jetting unless I really have to. Bikes fast enough for my level of ability. The next few rides will be a good indicator if I need to sort the jetting out or not. Basically if it fouls another plug I'll sort it out properly :soon:

[scott411]

have resent the Pm,

most the KDX's we have sold have run fine on std jetting, but you can get them better, i run one smaller main and pilot on my own kdx's (i think that makes it 158 mains, and 45 pilots, ill check in the morning)

run 40-1 fuel, on a good synthtic oil, we use elf 2xt. but most of the good brand name oils are fine,

[krad_nz]

Thanks Scott,
please ignore my PM re: posting your jetting to this thread as you've already done it :)