View Full Version : DR 650 engine sprocket - which way round please?
Aslan
14th November 2008, 05:25
Ok - so I should have marked clearly what I disassembled - but 'help' I've replaced my stock 15T with a 14T sprocket and am now suffering anxiety and doubt concerning whether the raised piece on the sprocket should face inwards toward the engine case / crankshaft or outwards. This is not clear to me from online part locator at Bike Bandit or any source I have.
Thanks in advance - cheers Aslan :weep:
ducatijim
14th November 2008, 06:52
Hi Stephen, the raised part goes outwards if I remember right. But, you would be better off to:
Throw away the sprocket cover and locking plate,
Use both 13 and 15t sprockets and:
Secure with 21mm, external, circlips in the groove provided.
Now you have a very quick change gearing system( instead of the more modern and convienient 6 speed box) for both hiway and not-so-hiway!
The 14t is a reasonable comprimise, but 1st is still WAAAY high in the tight!
Simply brilliant!:clap:
Crisis management
14th November 2008, 06:55
I "think" the raised part faces out as it provides some of the clearance for the retaining plate....which will need grinding down to clear the chain anyway!
At the end of the day the sprocket can't rub against the cases as the shaft spline prevents it moving that close, Ducati Jim will be along shortly to tell you to retain it with a circlip rather than the plate and bolts system.....the sprocket can safely float on the spline as long as something stops it falling off the end of the spline!
Edit.....Bugger he beat me to it!
Bass
14th November 2008, 07:31
Edit.....Bugger he beat me to it!
Ha haha hahaha!!
Hang on, just let me sneak out and sell some tickets to this one!
(They're both right Steve - its outwards)
And just to really piss Iain off, I tend to side with Jamie on this one. (Starting to sound like a broken record, eh?)
In Oz, with the mods he made, he had a front sprocket change down to an unhurried 5 or 6 minutes, on the side of the road. I took about double that because I still retained the covers and my rear axle nut is split pinned while his was Nylock.
Either way, the 13 toother made such a difference in the tight and actually spoiled me. See, my motor is really happy low down and so with the 13 on I never learned to use the clutch properly on the rough - I didn't need to - she just tractored on through. Now, with the 15 on and piss poor clutch technique, I tend to stall it or fall off - usually both.
I still have the 13 of course, but over there it was days between sprocket changes; here it's hours and I'm a lazy bugger.
Lastly, the other thing I discovered in Broome where I replaced the chain and sprockets, was that my bike being American spec, came with a 43 t rear sprocket where the NZ/Oz spec is 42 (IIRC). It was of no real significance however, as by then, we were through the real slow tight stuff.
Crisis management
14th November 2008, 08:33
And just to really piss Iain off, I tend to side with Jamie on this one. (Starting to sound like a broken record, eh?)
:girlfight: Bistard.....
I actually agree with you both, it's a better way of retaining the sprocket and worth considering if you are going to do regular sprocket changes. :bleh:
Aslan
14th November 2008, 09:56
Jim, Iain & Neil - thanks for your helpful comments. Trust you're all well
Seems I may have put the sprocket on wrong way round - bugger
The circlip idea and the various 'tooth' numbers all sound good - cheers Stephen O
PS Just need NordieBoy or ConneyR to chime in now with their views :Oops:
Bass
14th November 2008, 10:37
PS Just need NordieBoy or ConneyR to chime in now with their views :Oops:
Now hang on.....
You have agreement at the moment which is an unheard of event here!
Let's not go and spoil things, OK????
Aslan
14th November 2008, 10:57
Now hang on.....
You have agreement at the moment which is an unheard of event here!
Let's not go and spoil things, OK????
you're right Neil - I plan to go home and turn the spocket round this evening before heading off for a training ride befre tackling the 42nd at the end of the month
Transalper
14th November 2008, 11:03
cooneyr has sold his DR so I'll step in and say that I started with all this sprocket changing stuff and got lazy myself.
Now I just do most things on a 15/43 combo.
I can't remember the last time I put the 14T on, but it will indeed need the retainer plate ground down a bit.
Another thing.... both mine and J's bikes have the flat side of the sprocket out.
They came like that and that's how they still are so got me wondering now as the bit about providing some of the clearance for the retaining plate sounds like it makes sense.
I'll be popping down to the local dealer when I get a chance to check out a new one.
Nordie??
Aslan
14th November 2008, 11:32
Cheers Transalper - I'm sure mine came with the flat side out as well.
Certainly yours and Iain's (CrisisManagement) comment about grinding some off of the 'cover plate' have got me thinking.
I'll be interested to hear what you find in talking to your shop - here in wellington the mechanics I spoke with determined by looking at the 15T OEM that it had been fitted with the flat side facing out. The determined this by where the wear was occurring.
thanks all for input
Crisis management
14th November 2008, 12:02
If there is some concern about the sprocket "handing", stick it on and check the chain / sprocket alignment by viewing from the rear along the chain, if there is any serious misalignment will be visible.
MXNUT
14th November 2008, 12:52
Cheers Transalper - I'm sure mine came with the flat side out as well.
On both my DRZ400 and my RM250 The sprockets are fitted with the flat side outwards and the boss towards the gearbox, this spaces the sprocket and chain away from the countershaft oil seal.
DR may be different ????:blank:
Bass
14th November 2008, 13:14
Now hang on.....
You have agreement at the moment which is an unheard of event here!
Let's not go and spoil things, OK????
I do so love betting on a sure thing
Aslan
14th November 2008, 13:35
Hi MotocrossNut - thanks - hope all's going well for you. cheers S
NordieBoy
14th November 2008, 14:21
PS Just need NordieBoy or ConneyR to chime in now with their views :Oops:
Oh alright then, since you asked so nicely :D
Lastly, the other thing I discovered in Broome where I replaced the chain and sprockets, was that my bike being American spec, came with a 43 t rear sprocket where the NZ/Oz spec is 42 (IIRC).
NZ spec is 41.
US Spec is 42.
The Freewind sprocket is 43.
Flat side of the front sprocket to the outside (Just double checked on a new one up town).
Aslan
14th November 2008, 14:38
thanks Fran - you'll gather I'm spending some dosh getting this DR good to go for things like the Dusty Butt when I look fwd to meeting you.
I'm off to test an MT21 front and D606 rear this evening on our PRAM track in a local forest.
cheers S
Bass
14th November 2008, 15:21
NZ spec is 41.
US Spec is 42.
The Freewind sprocket is 43
To be honest, my memory is pretty crap these days, like I'd probably forget my balls if I didn't have a bag to carry them around in, but I do know that I dropped 1 tooth. I thought it was 43 to 42 but it may have been 42 to 41. I will have a look when I get home tonight.
Edit:
I checked.
You are quite right - it was 42 to 41.
Flat side of the front sprocket to the outside (Just double checked on a new one up town).
Well, mine was new when I pulled the locking plate off and it was the other way, so there ya go. It matters not to me now as it's floating and so I guess the only way to find out is to do as Iain suggested and check the sprocket alignment (with a straight edge as I doubt the eyecrometer's accuracy).
Crisis management
14th November 2008, 15:49
Isn't consensus wonderful! Maybe north island bikes are different to south island bikes? :shutup:
Just a thought, are the sprocket teeth central on the sprocket or offset as it may not matter which way the sprocket is fitted.....also, since no ones DR has blown up from sprocket mis-fitting yet, it probably doesn't matter what you do with them.
cooneyr
14th November 2008, 17:41
I'm with the souft islanders, flat side out. Then again though I was wearing out JT CS sprockets in about 2000kms with the scotty on. Suspect it was cause I could never get the amount of oil on the chain right through. I don't have a copy of the manual any more but I'm pretty sure there was a pic in there.
You need to grind the lip of the retainer plate to run a 14 tooth CS. Easy to do and no difference other than loose the cushion ring which has no real benefit anyway.
Cheers R
Doh - just re read the thread you already know about the grinding. Like TA - I was also running a 15/43 combo. Was a good compromise for the canty plains run and then river bed bashing/off roading etc. If we didnt do so much plains running I'd go for the 14/43 combo.
ducatijim
14th November 2008, 18:55
[QUOTE=cooneyr;1809984]
You need to grind the lip of the retainer plate to run a 14 tooth CS.
QUOTE]
Youz just ain't listen'n eh? You don't need no bloody locking plate,grinding fuggin lips etc, if youz do it proper like......
LOSE THE BLOODY LOCKN PLATE AND USE CIRCLIPS:beer::calm:
....give me strength!
XF650
14th November 2008, 20:29
We have had this discussion already this year:
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=70043
NordieBoy
14th November 2008, 20:41
[QUOTE=cooneyr;1809984]
You need to grind the lip of the retainer plate to run a 14 tooth CS.
QUOTE]
Youz just ain't listen'n eh? You don't need no bloody locking plate,grinding fuggin lips etc, if youz do it proper like......
LOSE THE BLOODY LOCKN PLATE AND USE CIRCLIPS:beer::calm:
....give me strength!
And use 2 of 'em!
That'll give you more strength.
cooneyr
14th November 2008, 20:54
Youz just ain't listen'n eh? You don't need no bloody locking plate,grinding fuggin lips etc, if youz do it proper like......
LOSE THE BLOODY LOCKN PLATE AND USE CIRCLIPS:beer::calm:
....give me strength!
Why??? If you're running the same size CS all the time there is no benefit in the circlip. In fact there is a significant dis benefit in that the CS can move closer to the cases and potentially cause problems.
Ya can use overly large bright red words all you like but I dis-agree.
Cheers R
NordieBoy
14th November 2008, 21:28
Why??? If you're running the same size CS all the time there is no benefit in the circlip. In fact there is a significant dis benefit in that the CS can move closer to the cases and potentially cause problems.
Ya can use overly large bright red words all you like but I dis-agree.
Cheers R
Self centering.
If you're not changing sprockets just loctite the screws up and you're away but if you're bored or like to fiddle the circlips make sense.
cooneyr
14th November 2008, 21:37
Self centering.
If you're not changing sprockets just loctite the screws up and you're away but if you're bored or like to fiddle the circlips make sense.
Self centering implying that it can and does more off centre sometimes...... I never lost a screw/bolt and I never loctited the bolts in the 12k kms I had the bike.
Cheers R
NordieBoy
14th November 2008, 22:09
I never lost a screw/bolt and I never loctited the bolts in the 12k kms I had the bike.
Well if you'd had it for a decent time :lol:
I havn't lost a bolt or used loctite on them either :D
But one side is being worn by the chain sideplate more than the other...
ducatijim
15th November 2008, 08:27
Why??? If you're running the same size CS all the time there is no benefit in the circlip.
Cheers R
With the primative 5 speed box, whichever sprocket one chooses, one will never be completely satisfied useing just 1 cs sprocket! The 14t is indeed a good compromise, but compromise it is.
Color? Big and red:maybe gets the attention of those who miss the point.
It is however the old story: of leading a horse to water but the problem is making the bitch see sense!:Oops:
You guys enjoy your circlipless system won't ya!
Aslan
15th November 2008, 08:55
hi fellow ADV enthusiasts - didn't intend my stupidity at not having taken greater care in noting which way a part came off would spark such passionate debate - thanks all for the helpful input - went through the Pram track here in Wellywood last evening (twilight run) without event with engine sprocket flat side out. Given I hadn't ground the plate as suggested by a number of you - I'll be checking for what damage if any i've inflicted.
BTW as Freewind points out this topic had previously been done to death - sorry I didn't search first.
As others have said - 'you've gotta love these DRs' :scooter:
PS Off topic - if I had the wit and passion of NordieBoy I'd be tempted to try to run this thread on like his Newbie Post :yes:
PPS - Off topic - love the MT21 as a front tyre!
cooneyr
15th November 2008, 11:43
With the primative 5 speed box, whichever sprocket one chooses, one will never be completely satisfied useing just 1 cs sprocket! The 14t is indeed a good compromise, but compromise it is.
Color? Big and red:maybe gets the attention of those who miss the point.
It is however the old story: of leading a horse to water but the problem is making the bitch see sense!:Oops:
You guys enjoy your circlipless system won't ya!
Last post on this topic from me - These bikes are a compromise in many ways and you have to learn to deal with that. To me this applies to every aspect of the bike including gearing. Tyres, suspension, seat, fuel range, gear ratios, etc will always be "wrong" but to me learning to deal with this is half the fun. Having the "perfect" bike for every situation is just damn expensive and means you'll still be annoyed at having the wrong bike for some of whatever ride you do.
As for circlips - I now have a 32mm socket for a 32mm nut :blink::whistle:
Cheers R
ducatijim
15th November 2008, 14:28
Last post on this topic from me - These bikes are a compromise in many ways and you have to learn to deal with that. To me this applies to every aspect of the bike including gearing. Tyres, suspension, seat, fuel range, gear ratios, etc will always be "wrong" but to me learning to deal with this is half the fun. Having the "perfect" bike for every situation is just damn expensive and means you'll still be annoyed at having the wrong bike for some of whatever ride you do.
As for circlips - I now have a 32mm socket for a 32mm nut :blink::whistle:
Cheers R
Very well said Ryan....this is just exactly why so many of us like them I guess!!:clap:
32mm socket eh? Well I can understand that no-one would want to carry this, and the 3/4 power bar for it, around to change sprockets at the side of the road!
14t c/s Aslan, and bolt the retainer on;either way round( apparantly!). Finished.:rolleyes:
tri boy
15th November 2008, 14:58
Fookin DR riders, fighting over the best way to do a five min job:weird:
Triumph rider would of been into his second beer by the time you lot chose "the tree to park under" to start the job.:bleh:
NordieBoy
15th November 2008, 15:17
Triumph rider would of been into his second beer to build up his strength to pick the bike up again.
:shutup:
warewolf
15th November 2008, 15:38
I now have a 32mm socket for a 32mm nutAlways thought you'd have big nuts...
:blink::whistle:
cooneyr
15th November 2008, 18:43
Always thought you'd have big nuts...
:blink::whistle:
You not seen 32mm nuts - I'll show you next time :msn-wink:
Cheers R
gammaguy
15th November 2008, 20:08
in my experience they usually go clockwise:first:
warewolf
15th November 2008, 21:44
You not seen 32mm nuts - I'll show you next timeYou can keep your 32s to yerself, I seen plenty. :crazy:
The Triumph has a 36... and it's a bastard to get off.
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