Somalia pirates taking ships- where was the on-board security?

[MD]

I'm somewhat amused and puzzled by the latest topical news story of Somalian pirates seizing giant ships with tens, and hundreds of millions of dollars worth of cargo. Lets not forget the value of the ship itself.

I find it hard to have sympathy for the ship Owners who must have known ;
a. the value of their ship plus its cargo was ...massive! And surprise, surprise attractive to pirates.
b. 30 odd ships hijacked this year alone in the region they are going through

If you were transporting diamonds or valuable artworks across town worth $182m wouldn't a normal business go to great measures to protect the merchandise? Armed guards a minimum measure. So why send a ship into danger of hijacking with only 25 seaman to look after it. Seaman who were by the sounds of it unarmed and untrained in warfare/security/self defence.

Weigh up the cost of $182m cargo PLUS the new ship itself valued at $160m, against the wages for a dozen well trained, well equipped Mercenaries - a bit of a no brainer to me. The loss of income alone from the ship being 'unavailable' would pay for a hundred well armed guards a day easily.

Surely there is radar technology around these days that can detect small vessels approaching and weapons capable of blowing a few dingies out of the water before they take 5 minutes clambering up crappling hooks?

Just all seems hard to comprehend to me. Maybe they are expecting Peter Pan to help them.

[98tls]

Have to say i wondered the same when i saw that.Black hawks to oil tankers,skinnys are doing well.

[Indiana_Jones]

UN & IMO Policy is not to defend with weapons etc (as they believe this will piss off the pirates and they will butcher the crew should they get onbaord)

They promote using water canons etc to ward them off & to keep a good watch.

As far as Using Radars to pick up small vessels, it could be done if they had small radars on the bow and stern of the vessel of that size, but ship owners won't pay for it (though you'd think they would considering the worth of the cargo/ship) also, with only 2 MAX on the bridge at night (one OOW and an AB/IR) it could easily be missed on a RADAR etc.

-Indy

[Trumpess]

Somalia is un-Governed country so no-one can can help there via governments.
I did read today though that there are French, Saudi and American war ships over there near the Arabian Sea.
I wonder how long it takes for them to act when a ship from their country is attacked.
The specialized shipping lane that runs up the coast patroled by Nato aint protecting anything due to the sophisticated equipment the pirates have.

Seeing as Somalia is un-governed country, does this not mean any twit can go in there and insight war freely?

Seems the solution is slapping them in the face really.

[Trudes]

Glad you started this thread and asked the exact questions I had MD! Would be very interested to find out more.....

[portokiwi]

You get what you pay for. A lot of those firms will not pay for security, They hire staff for very poor countries to crew on very little wages.
Been there done that I had my pay cut in half 6 months after I started all F/Ns were classed as 3rd country so we had the option..... take the cut or pay our own way home.
Thats when I changed to close protection. better job and better pay.
In Dubai you see it everywhere. indians, and a huge contengent of philapinos work there on very poor work standards. But much better then what they would make back in the homes so they do it.
The tanker crew will be the same.

[Trudes]

So a bit like servo attendants, minimum wage, shit work conditions, no way are they taking a bullet for a couple hundy cash and a few cartons of ciggies. Fair enough. So boohoo to the owner of the oil, but it's a bit shitty considering what the money from the stolen oil will be used to buy.:no:

[Hitcher]

I am surprised that commercial ships, such as tankers, don't have a "panic room" where the crew can abscond and operate the ship remotely while Long John Silver et al wander around looking for mischief. All ships' systems are electronic and shouldn't need to be operated from a bridge. GPS, radar and CCTV should provide more than enough resource to put a vessel into a slow circle whilst mayday messages are broadcast.

[avgas]

Surely there is radar technology around these days that can detect small vessels approaching and weapons capable of blowing a few dingies out of the water before they take 5 minutes clambering up crappling hooks?


An weapons that automatically fire when ever such radar devices are turned on. Damned if you do, damned by pirates if you dont.

On the other side of the fence, say the system works really good - what happens when you oblitterate a the males in the local village who were out fishing for their kids.

Also by the sounds of things these "Pirates" are not as simple as they would make you believe.

[MD]

I am surprised that commercial ships, such as tankers, don't have a "panic room" where the crew can abscond and operate the ship remotely while Long John Silver et al wander around looking for mischief. All ships' systems are electronic and shouldn't need to be operated from a bridge. GPS, radar and CCTV should provide more than enough resource to put a vessel into a slow circle whilst mayday messages are broadcast.

That is a good ideal and so obvious and cheap. You should work for a shipping company! Plus taking precautions like that gives you a bargaining power to reduce the current Insurance hikes these Ship owners are bleating about. Doh. I have little doubt that the cost of a dozen soldiers on board would be a fraction of the insurance premiums to cover $342m.

I just watched the Close up story on this. The Sirius Star was totally un armed! Well bugger me. Value $342,000,000 versus cost of a dozen guns. Or run the highly likely risk of having to pay tens of millions in ranson, only to see your ship later re-flagged and sold after you pay to supposedly get it back = priceless stupidity.

And yes the expert on Closeup showed us they can see small run-abouts quite clearly by 3km out. he said by then it's probably to late. WHAT? 3 km and approaching doesn't give them enough time to send a distress signal, alert the crew, get armed men in positions and the crew to a safe room. Maybe they better add a gym to the ship to get the crew in better shape.

Currently these Pirates - ex-fisherman most of them, have 13 large ships hijacked. Something doesn't add up here.

Does anyone have the email or phone number for Peter Pan? Or maybe Flipper can help these clowns out.

[CM2005]

there's one answer to this problem... that answer is miniguns.

[Finn]

I am surprised that commercial ships, such as tankers, don't have a "panic room" where the crew can abscond and operate the ship remotely while Long John Silver et al wander around looking for mischief. All ships' systems are electronic and shouldn't need to be operated from a bridge. GPS, radar and CCTV should provide more than enough resource to put a vessel into a slow circle whilst mayday messages are broadcast.

Before a ship even touches water, it can be brought and sold many times on the futures market. It is not uncommon for this to happen several times dependant on market conditions. Very rarely does a shipping company own ships. They lease them.

In all this carry on, I guess that that panic room was over looked.

The ship owners don't give a damn about the ship, the cargo or the staff (within what their insurance allows) so it's business as usual.

However, like that smart Japanese general once said "You have not achieved victory today, you have awoken the sleeping giant" or words to that effect.

You don't fuck with the Saudi's.

Interesting fact: That ship contained the oil for 1/3 of the world's DAILY use. Wow.

P.S. I'm drunk

[riffer]

Call me a conspiracy theorist, but me - I'm left wondering if someone wants the price of oil to go back up again.

[jrandom]

Call me a conspiracy theorist.

OK, you're a conspiracy theorist.

My rule: never attribute anything to malice that can be adequately explained by stupidity.

[wayne708]

mmmm miniguns, some good footage on youtube of those little beasties.

Problem with taking an attack to these pirates is they will proberbly have some sort of hand held missile, which, if you piss them off they could sent into the ship at the waterline, then you have more of a problem than you started with. Ship should carry it's own Apache helicoper to keep the little fookers away.

[JimO]

Interesting fact: That ship contained the oil for 1/3 of the world's DAILY use. Wow.

P.S. I'm drunk

i think it was a third of the saudi daily output

[Swoop]

Oh hurray. The NZ media has finally caught up with what else is going on around the world which doesn't involve a little oval ball...

This has been going on for a damned long time, people!


Seeing as Somalia is un-governed country...
It is only the northern part of skinnyland which is the problem...

[Motu]

Wasn't there some New Zealand guy killed by pirates once? And he even had a gun - must of been a pretty useless shot if he let some ignorant natives get the better of him.I reckon you sharp dudes ort to hire yourselfs out as mercinaries on oil tankers.

[Trumpess]

Wasn't there some New Zealand guy killed by pirates once? And he even had a gun - must of been a pretty useless shot if he let some ignorant natives get the better of him.I reckon you sharp dudes ort to hire yourselfs out as mercinaries on oil tankers.



Would you be thinking of Peter Blake in the Amazon?

[Paul in NZ]

I reckon you sharp dudes ort to hire yourselfs out as mercinaries on oil tankers.

Won't work - the robbing pricks that own the oil and the tankers don't want any competition...

[Ixion]

I do not understand why the various navies of the world do not just simply sort them out. An oil tanker can hardly be hidden in this age of satellites. And I cannot conceive that the pirates can have armament in the league of the USN , or even the RN.

A cruiser and a couple of destroyers with an escort carrier for air cover, and it should be good night nurse for the pirates.

I am sure Nelson would have have hestitated. They need to call Maggie Thatcher back, she'd have them sorted out in less time than it took her to find her handbag.

[Swoop]

I do not understand why the various navies of the world do not just simply sort them out.

A cruiser and a couple of destroyers with an escort carrier for air cover, and it should be good night nurse for the pirates.
They already are. It is quite surprising that there are quite a few navies co-operating on this issue, even to the extent that Russian vessels are assisting Brit and US warships.

The nothern coastline of Skinnyland is heavily policed and it is of interest that this "capture" happened well away from that part of the world, in what was presumably seen as a "safe place" as the ship had cleared the danger area and headed for the Cape of Good Hope.

If the gloves come off, then the skinnies might be dealt with in a more "appropriate" manner... one befitting pirates.

One thinks that they have gone a step too far with this capture. "Undue attention" and all that.

[Ixion]

Nothin' say lovin' like a couple of rounds of 4.7.

[koba]

I do not understand why the various navies of the world do not just simply sort them out.

Maybe it would create more than a small problem if the pirates or whoever decide to sink the ship just to say "fuck you".

[Ixion]

They'd only do it once. Sod patrols. Sink the buggers. They need boats to get out to the ships. And the ships themselves can certainly be found by satellite. So, trace the boats back to whereever they go back to. Stand off shore, and lay down broadside fire for a few hours. End of pirate problem.

Meh, if you want a job donw well, you need to do it yourself. Someone loan me a battleship, and I'll sort them out.

[Timber020]

They'd only do it once. Sod patrols. Sink the buggers. They need boats to get out to the ships. And the ships themselves can certainly be found by satellite. So, trace the boats back to whereever they go back to. Stand off shore, and lay down broadside fire for a few hours. End of pirate problem.

Meh, if you want a job donw well, you need to do it yourself. Someone loan me a battleship, and I'll sort them out.

Only do it once? Theres millions of dollars in it for people who would (and historically have) kill each other for food.

I had a little birdy (actually 2 birdys, one crew member, one "extra") tell me years back that at least one team of somalian pirates were dealt to severely. These guys are not going to stop doing this for as long as the money is there.

[Ixion]

"They'd" only do it (it being to sink a ship to say "fuck you" ) once, cos a pirate blown to kingdom come ain't going to do nothing again.

'S simple. They need boats to reach the ships. Track the boats to whereever they lurk. Send naval ships to bombard the boats, wharves, jetties villages and such like . Boats blown up and sunk, pirates dead, problem solved. Sheesh , Palmerston would have had it solved in a few weeks. Too much ponsy pussy footing around.

[Quailboy]

I think it would be an effective way to stop piracy by putting armed guards on the ships, it would defo be cheaper than paying a US$2m in ransom. But there are too many obstacles- 1. As has been said, UN would not be happy 2. Ports probably wouldn't allow ships with small arms to birth 3. Increase chances of innocent lives lost 4. Countries would not allow their ships to have small arms onboard ships flying their flag.

I think they need to be escorted by their own countries navies.

I thought those ships had some thick arse metal doors to the outside that they could lock up, why leave it all open just inviting the pirates in.

The pirates do look pretty bogan lol

[laserracer]

We should offer them our airforce for protection ...we can send in our 2 airforce stealth hot air balloons and some guys with paint ball guns to scare them pirates away;)or better still we sell the pirates our mothballed skyhawks

[Forest]

I do not understand why the various navies of the world do not just simply sort them out. An oil tanker can hardly be hidden in this age of satellites. And I cannot conceive that the pirates can have armament in the league of the USN , or even the RN.

A cruiser and a couple of destroyers with an escort carrier for air cover, and it should be good night nurse for the pirates.

I am sure Nelson would have have hestitated. They need to call Maggie Thatcher back, she'd have them sorted out in less time than it took her to find her handbag.

The pirates don't hide the ships.

They bring explosives on board and ransom the ships back to their owners.

[Brian d marge]

Like I care ! hey its insured comes ouit in the cost of the hire of the vessel!...

I have been distributing oil for awhile, no skinnys ave got me yet...!

Stephen

[CookMySock]

Its not the crews problem, they just drive the thing and sweep the floor. It's the owners and the insurance companies problem. Giving the crew weapons and telling them to stand up to pirates is a quick way to get them all slaughtered. Just leave the pirates to it and go get the roast out of he oven and put a movie on the big screen.

Steve

[NighthawkNZ]

I hear the questions why the navies of the world don't just sort them out... The Indian Navy just suck a pirate ship...

The main problem is it is a big ass lot of ocean out there to cover and too few navel vessels... and then the rules of enagement need to be reviewed.

There isn't a lot the owners and or insurance companies can do either... the pirates are now carrying rpg's and have heavy cal machine guns on fast moving boats... its not as if the super tanker can out run or out manouver it...

No point just giveing the crew guns;
A)- breaking international agreements, (yeah yeah I know the irony of it)
B)- it would simply become a blood bath

You could have a security contingent on each ship but again the pirates simply out gun, and out number...

The only possible solution is a conveys and have an escort through the dangerous waters... and all that is going to do is put the price of every up, and you will have to wait longer for your goods...

even this wouldn't stop them but may slow them...

[portokiwi]

There are so many hot spots with pirates. and all of them with rouge govts.
Some too close to home as well. If any country trys to intervine the local govt cry threats. The cover up all the time. Most of them paid under the table.

[wbks]

I think people were meaning trained soldiers or guards, not just ol' cap'in and deck hand with a machete, nighthawk. Rolling over for the pirates and still likely loosing your ship sounds pretty shitty to me compared to spending 20K each trip on your own private miliatary.

[slimjim]

poor buggers should have jumped for their life raft and lefted a couple of smoke's going with the gas oven turned on in the gallery....:rolleyes:

[NighthawkNZ]

I think people were meaning trained soldiers or guards, not just ol' cap'in and deck hand with a machete, nighthawk.

I know that, you can only have a few trained solders per ship...

The pirates don't even have to board to cause damage or death to the crew... with rpg and heavy... you fire q .5 cal or rpg at the super structure I wouldn't want to be on the other side of it...

Unless you are going to arm every ship with detection and anti ship eapons it will still happen

[Tank]

I worked with a company (Computacenter) in the UK where the boat was borded and everyone onboard gagged, beaten, and shot.

There are over 3000+ small boat attacks like that per year and they arnt actually recorded in the piracy figures.

Gutless scum.

The guys cannot defend themselves - if the lock into a panic room or dont stop - the pirates simply shot a rocket into the side of the boat causing a multimillion dollar enviornmental disaster or sink the ship. No point being in a safe room once you are under water.

[portokiwi]

You got it in a nut shell there Tank:bye:

[Winston001]

The Indian Navy just suck a pirate ship...

Damn, there's an image for ya.......

Them Indians are pretty wrapped up at home but once out on the high seas, they are game for anything.....;)

[vifferman]

Only do it once? Theres millions of dollars in it for people who would (and historically have) kill each other for food.

I had a little birdy (actually 2 birdys, one crew member, one "extra") tell me years back that at least one team of somalian pirates were dealt to severely. These guys are not going to stop doing this for as long as the money is there.
Indeed.
From the reports, there is a never-ending availability of people willing to be pirates. The fishing industry in Somalian ports is basically fucked because of Yurpeen trawlers illegally fishing in and cleaning out the Somalian fisheries. Apparently, a successful Somalian pirate can earn $5000 a year! Big money for a poor country.


"They'd" only do it (it being to sink a ship to say "fuck you" ) once, cos a pirate blown to kingdom come ain't going to do nothing again.
See above. They know it's risky, but they don't have any other employment prospects. Plus they're looked on as being people of status: they're brave, daring, and (in Somalian terms) rich.


'S simple. They need boats to reach the ships. Track the boats to whereever they lurk. Send naval ships to bombard the boats, wharves, jetties villages and such like . Boats blown up and sunk, pirates dead, problem solved. Sheesh , Palmerston would have had it solved in a few weeks. Too much ponsy pussy footing around.
Possibly. They already know where the pirates are lurking, but you'd have to mount a covert (not naval, but either mercenaries or undercover) operation. It'd be too non-PC to beat up a poor, broken-down African country.


There are so many hot spots with pirates. and all of them with rouge govts.
Some too close to home as well. If any country trys to intervine the local govt cry threats. The cover up all the time. Most of them paid under the table.
True.
And Somalia doesn't really have an effective gummint now, and no doubt the officials higher up are in on the take too.
The other thing is the people who act as 'intermediaries' in these cases are often the ones making the real money, and the ones driving the whole thing. The pirates themselves get fuck all - maybe a few hundred dollars (HUGE money to them). The 'negotiators' (some of whom are reputed to be Canadian) negotiate a price in the millions, then pocket a large proportion themselves.
Think about it: you've got a Somalian pirate, who captures a ship. Then what? He can't find out who owns it, phone them up, and ask them for cash. If him and his mates were working oin their own, they'd be fucked. They'd capture a ship, and then not know what to do with it, apart from stealing all the food and stuff on board,

There'll be some fat cats somewhere exploiting these guys to do their dirty work - they're the ones driving it, and the ones who need to be taken out.
This latest one was a ship worth over $250million, with a cargo worth over $200million. The ransom will be a mere fraction of that, possible only a couple of million. Relatively cheap, probably cheaper than the insurance would be.


There are over 3000+ small boat attacks like that per year and they arnt actually recorded in the piracy figures.
The guys cannot defend themselves - if the lock into a panic room or dont stop - the pirates simply shot a rocket into the side of the boat causing a multimillion dollar enviornmental disaster or sink the ship. No point being in a safe room once you are under water.
True.
It's easier to just pay, and factor the insurance and other costs into the transport costs.
Shipping costs are rising dramatically as a factor of fuel costs, insurance, and stuff like this.

[Morcs]

shoot all somalians = no more somalian pirates...

[pzkpfw]

They don't always get away with it.

http://www.bautforum.com/off-topic-babbling/71771-luckiest-unlucky-man-ive-ever-seen-flightdeck-13.html#post1339450

[SPman]

. They need to call Maggie Thatcher back, she'd have them sorted out in less time than it took her to find her handbag.
So - we have it on record...

Ixion calling for the return of Maggie Thatcher......

(is there a touch of royal blue under that, oh so red, exterior, Les?) :laugh:

[portokiwi]

Got to admit Maggie had big balls. If there was a problem she would have it sorted:2guns::2guns:

[sAsLEX]

UN & IMO Policy is not to defend with weapons etc (as they believe this will piss off the pirates and they will butcher the crew should they get onbaord)

They promote using water canons etc to ward them off & to keep a good watch.

As far as Using Radars to pick up small vessels, it could be done if they had small radars on the bow and stern of the vessel of that size, but ship owners won't pay for it (though you'd think they would considering the worth of the cargo/ship) also, with only 2 MAX on the bridge at night (one OOW and an AB/IR) it could easily be missed on a RADAR etc.

-Indy

Little wooden dhows etc are very very hard to pick up in the environmental conditions encountered up near the NAG SAG and GOO on radar.


mmmm miniguns, some good footage on youtube of those little beasties.


Flag that manual crap. Block 1 B Phalanx. Will deal with any pesky missiles they send your way as well. A simple stand alone system that just needs some power and water and bob's your uncle!

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Too bad there is a big waiting list for the buggers!



Nothin' say lovin' like a couple of rounds of 4.7.
Would go 5 inch myself!

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I hear the questions why the navies of the world don't just sort them out... The Indian Navy just sunk a pirate ship...
.

And the INS Tabar (Battle Axe in English) is one floating arsenal. It was here a couple of years back (played them in football).

[Ixion]

So - we have it on record...

Ixion calling for the return of Maggie Thatcher......

(is there a touch of royal blue under that, oh so red, exterior, Les?) :laugh:

Of course. I am unashamedly a royalist. And a Jacobite to boot. God save King Francis.

[R6_kid]

Flag that manual crap. Block 1 B Phalanx. Will deal with any pesky missiles they send your way as well. A simple stand alone system that just needs some power and water and bob's your uncle!

You read my mind dude!

[sAsLEX]

You read my mind dude!

Yeah they aren't bad bits of kit really, though hot work up there.....

[laserracer]

i dont like guns......small ones that is :Punk:this should do the job

[vifferman]

There was a nice wee article in The Harold this morning, about some pirates in 2 speedboats and a 'mother ship' (mofo boat?) trying to capture some merchant vessel. An Indian navy warship intervened.. (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10544236).

Sounds like they were bringing a shotgun to a knife fight.

[Ixion]

..The supertanker, the MV Sirius Star, was anchored on Wednesday close to Harardhere, the main pirates' den..

So, they know the pirates den location! F'Gawds sake what is WRONG with these people (the international bosses). Just blow them up!. Personally, I'd say get the Yanks to drop a couple of those cruise missiles armed with a tactical nuclear warhead on them (I mean, what's the point of having nukes if you don't use them), but in this PC world the Greens would probably complain. So, do it the old way. Heave a couple of battleships (or the nearest modern equivalent) just off shore. Begin bombardment. Continue for 24 hours, or until gun barrels worn out. At end, survey smoking ruins and shoot anything that moves. problem solved. Worked well for centuries, time and again. How do people think we deal to the Barbary pirates? Turn the Russians loose on them, they ain't so squeamish. Mr Putin would fix it, fast.

[vifferman]

Yeah. Given that most navies at the moment have naff all to do aaprt from search'n'rescue, fisheries patrol, and boring routine stff, I'm sure they'd jump at the chance to fire up their armaments and Blow Shit Up. Good training for 'em. :yes:

[Reckless]

Well its a tuff call but the thing that comes to mind is "Zero tolerance"
It worked with plane Hijackings how many of those are there now! They sent in the SAS, risked the crew and customers, boarded the planes, but lost very few, and the message got through. The word will get back to them you simply die doing this piracy thing and it will stop.

Again tuff call! Big mess to clean up till they see the light! But I don't see much choice? Even crims realise its not worth doing if you don't get paid and there's a 100% chance of dying!

No doubt there will be many on KB that disagree but thats my thoughts?

[Swoop]

Yeah. Given that most navies at the moment have naff all to do aaprt from search'n'rescue, fisheries patrol, and boring routine stff, I'm sure they'd jump at the chance to fire up their armaments and Blow Shit Up. Good training for 'em. :yes:
I imagine that the Navy people who balance balls on their noses, would be itching to have a bit of playtime with said pirates.
It is their environment after all...

[Winston001]

Well its a tuff call but the thing that comes to mind is "Zero tolerance"

It worked with plane Hijackings how many of those are there now! They sent in the SAS, risked the crew and customers, boarded the planes, but lost very few, and the message got through. The word will get back to them you simply die doing this piracy thing and it will stop.

Again tuff call! Big mess to clean up till they see the light! But I don't see much choice? Even crims realise its not worth doing if you don't get paid and there's a 100% chance of dying!


Agree with your sentiments but not your example. Air highjackings have not disappeared, nor have bombs on aircraft. What has happened is the levels of security in the Western world have become huge barriers for wannabe terrorists/air pirates. Airport scanners, armed guards, explosive sniffer dogs, air marshalls, steel cockpit doors etc etc have all made such attacks impossible.

Not so in Africa, China, the "Stans" (former USSR), South America, etc. Small airliners are still bombed or highjacked, its just that we don't hear about them because Brad Pitt getting a pimple is much more important news. :eek:

[sAsLEX]

I imagine that the Navy people who balance balls on their noses, would be itching to have a bit of playtime with said pirates.
It is their environment after all...

Nah we much prefer not being allowed to play with our toys whilst the aussys et al get to use theirs.......


They were incredibly brave/stupid pirates to take on the Tabar.....

[Reckless]

Agree with your sentiments but not your example. Air highjackings have not disappeared, nor have bombs on aircraft. What has happened is the levels of security in the Western world have become huge barriers for wannabe terrorists/air pirates. Airport scanners, armed guards, explosive sniffer dogs, air marshalls, steel cockpit doors etc etc have all made such attacks impossible.

Not so in Africa, China, the "Stans" (former USSR), South America, etc. Small airliners are still bombed or highjacked, its just that we don't hear about them because Brad Pitt getting a pimple is much more important news. :eek:


My mistake. I hadn't heard of a plane stuck on the tarmac with the people being held hostage for ages??(even before 911 when the security was tightened). Because every time it happened they sent the boys in through what ever hatch they could get in. Teach me to assume!
Still think the only way to combat this piracy is "Zero Tolerance" hard on the innocent people caught in the middle though! How else pay up or mediate that's only going to promote the practice. Its a hard one, loss of life, loss of ships, environmental damage, we still have Hobson's choice in my mind though!

[Beemer]

All they need is a guy with an AK47 on either side of the ship, shooting anything that comes near it! Or a rocket launcher!

[geoffm]

"They'd" only do it (it being to sink a ship to say "fuck you" ) once, cos a pirate blown to kingdom come ain't going to do nothing again.

'S simple. They need boats to reach the ships. Track the boats to whereever they lurk. Send naval ships to bombard the boats, wharves, jetties villages and such like . Boats blown up and sunk, pirates dead, problem solved. Sheesh , Palmerston would have had it solved in a few weeks. Too much ponsy pussy footing around.

Simple answer - Convoyes and/ or map out a shippingl ane. Declare it a free fire zone - anything in there not identified as a good guy is a target...
I am sure the SBS would like some practice.
Given the known immorality of shipping owners, I can't help but wonder if there is a bit of ransom splitting between the hijackers and ship owners or agents, at the detriment of insurance companies..

[Winston001]

My mistake. I hadn't heard of a plane stuck on the tarmac with the people being held hostage for ages??(even before 911 when the security was tightened). Because every time it happened they sent the boys in through what ever hatch they could get in. Teach me to assume!

Just less than a month ago http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2008/10/24/Source_Passenger_hijacks_airplane/UPI-22951224861146/ and also August 2008 http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=96473



Still think the only way to combat this piracy is "Zero Tolerance" hard on the innocent people caught in the middle though! How else pay up or mediate that's only going to promote the practice. Its a hard one, loss of life, loss of ships, environmental damage, we still have Hobson's choice in my mind though!

Zero Tolerance only works if you can enforce it. Murder is punished by death in some countries, as is drug dealing. Does that stop it? Consider the Aussies facing death sentences in Indonesia......

Piracy is just armed robbery and kidnapping at sea. Armed robbery happens on land right here in NZ so preventing it on the open ocean is next to impossible. Kidnapping is an accepted crime in South America, India, Asia, China...... No-one likes it and the penalties are harsh.....but its good business for criminals.

These pirates are well armed and daring. They aren't educated. They don't have networks like the mafia to warn each other. Basically they are desperate people who have latched on to a very effective earner.

There is a good post earlier about the role of the negotiators. You do have to wonder how they become involved unless they are hired by the insurance companies. Looks kinda dodgy.

[Ixion]

..
Piracy is just armed robbery and kidnapping at sea. Armed robbery happens on land right here in NZ so preventing it on the open ocean is next to impossible. ...

Uh, the Royal Navy managed to eradicate piracy very thoroughly in the nineteenth century. It has only crept back in recent times because short sighted politicians have scrimped on the Senior Service.

I rather think that, given a free hand and no stint on the ammo bill, even our own small Navy could eradicate piracy in the area within a year. See ship. Sink ship. Sorted.

[SARGE]

So, they know the pirates den location! F'Gawds sake what is WRONG with these people (the international bosses). Just blow them up!. Personally, I'd say get the Yanks to drop a couple of those cruise missiles armed with a tactical nuclear warhead on them (I mean, what's the point of having nukes if you don't use them), but in this PC world the Greens would probably complain. So, do it the old way. Heave a couple of battleships (or the nearest modern equivalent) just off shore. Begin bombardment. Continue for 24 hours, or until gun barrels worn out. At end, survey smoking ruins and shoot anything that moves. problem solved. Worked well for centuries, time and again. How do people think we deal to the Barbary pirates? Turn the Russians loose on them, they ain't so squeamish. Mr Putin would fix it, fast.



nah... Nukes arent cheap .. a Battalion of Marines with the PC leash off would sort the shit out in a few hours ..get some payback for that OTHER nasty business in Somalia a few years back too ..


or....


we could just go with the UN's great policy of sending them a strongly worded letter....

[Timber020]

Dont underestimate how organised the pirates are, this is a game for big money so they can afford to invest some resources into it.

The pirates change tactics constantly, they use different vessels, work in different areas, and have the funds to use spotter aircraft, satellite live imaging, have spies at ports, and have the backing of corrupt areas of the somali leadership.

The pirates have been brought up in one of the most violent nations at its most violent time. Life is cheap there, killing a bunch of them with do jack. its their leaders that need to be got to.

[Ixion]

Their supply of bodies is probably unlimited. But their supply of ships and boats is limited. Sink same. Leave a couple of frigates stationed on blockade off the ports. Anything peeps out, sink same. Soon going to run out of sea going vessels.

Or, yeah, send in some Marines to cut out the boats.

[Kickaha]

I reckon something along the lines of the Q Ships would sort it out

Of course there would be no taking prisioners


a Battalion of Marines with the PC leash off would sort the shit out in a few hours ..get some payback for that OTHER nasty business in Somalia a few years back too ...

What makes you think they'd do any better this time around?

[SARGE]

I reckon something along the lines of the Q Ships would sort it out

Of course there would be no taking prisioners



What makes you think they'd do any better this time around?

wasnt the Marines who got pasted .. was the Army and they had very strict rules of engagement..


like i said .. take the leash off and let us do our job..

[jonbuoy]

Its been going on for years only difference is no one cared before, they just boarded stole money booze ciggarettes and anything else they could carry. Part time cash in hand work for members of the indonesian navy <_<.

Now they've got a lot smarter and decided to ransom the ships. There are convoys in the red sea that have navy patrol boats at the start and finish - probably why they've started looking for different targets. Pretty ballsy move on their part, will be the end of them once they start holding up the black gold.

[vifferman]

In The Harold today (sorry - it's not on their website), is an interesting tidbit: the Saudi foreign minister - Prince Saud al-Faisal has rejected paying the ransom fee of US$25million to avoid the threat of "disastrous action", saying "We do not support negotiating with hijackers or terrorists".
"They cannot be seen to gain from their activities and criminality. The best solution would be for the hijackers to free the tanker". He also said it would be up to the owners of the vessel to decide how to deal with the act of piracy. Britain has also rejected paying a ransom.
Meanwhile...
Britain takes command of a EU naval task force in the seas off Somalia next month, and Russia suggested foreign powers arrange a military assault on the towns on the lawless Somali coast to destroy pirate boats and infrastructure, invoking the spirit of 18th century cutting-out attacks by the Royal Navy.

[Dooly]

Yep, a military assault is blatantly obvious.
Attack the bases, as i'm sure the powers to be will know where they are.......destroy all the bad guys.
Cold steel, no prisoners, blah blah......waste the fuckers!

[Winston001]

Dont underestimate how organised the pirates are, this is a game for big money so they can afford to invest some resources into it.

The pirates change tactics constantly, they use different vessels, work in different areas, and have the funds to use spotter aircraft, satellite live imaging, have spies at ports, and have the backing of corrupt areas of the somali leadership.


That's very interesting, it hadn't occurred to me that the pirates might be organised in any effective sense. Not disputing what you say, just interested in where you learnt this from?

We seem to be focusing on Somalis as the only pirates but I was also thinking about further down the African coast and the South China seas. There are plenty of other nationalities involved and I guess the main reason Somalia is a haven, is the lack of govenment and policing of ports there.

Again, someone said its Northern Somalia, not the whole country. Be interested to know more because I thought the whole place was run by warlord gangs.

[Winston001]

wasnt the Marines who got pasted .. was the Army and they had very strict rules of engagement..




Oh heck Sarge, blame the Green Slime why dontcha :done: They were Rangers, not ordinary grunts, and as you say, the ROE in a civilian battle made it difficult. So far as I can make out, one of the big problems was the choppers had to relay through central command, which then gave orders to the guys on the ground.....by which time they were already a couple of blocks further on. No direct radio link between air and ground.

Thought you guys had sorted that out in Vietnam. :shit:

[Winston001]

Uh, the Royal Navy managed to eradicate piracy very thoroughly in the nineteenth century. It has only crept back in recent times because short sighted politicians have scrimped on the Senior Service.

I rather think that, given a free hand and no stint on the ammo bill, even our own small Navy could eradicate piracy in the area within a year. See ship. Sink ship. Sorted.

Ok I'm in a generous mood so I'll concede that. :D

From an international law perspective, its a tricky situation. There are laws of the sea for international waters, and different laws for territorial waters. Whatever, an attack by a warship on a boat full of dark-skinned fishermen, mistakenly thought to be pirates, would be a disaster for the attacking nation. That is piracy, and it is one reason why naval vessels hold back.

Pirates are rife in the South China Seas. The nations of South Asia aren't known for being squeamish - how come they haven't done exactly what we'd expect? The Indonesians have a very effective navy and the will to use it.

[Ixion]

..
Britain takes command of a EU naval task force in the seas off Somalia next month, and Russia suggested foreign powers arrange a military assault on the towns on the lawless Somali coast to destroy pirate boats and infrastructure, invoking the spirit of 18th century cutting-out attacks by the Royal Navy.


Exactly! Leave it to Mr Putin, he'll sort it out. The only world leader with any balls. And the RN has the experience and ability to make amphibious assaults work, the only navy that does.

I suspect the problem may be solved in the next few months.

[sAsLEX]

We seem to be focusing on Somalis as the only pirates but I was also thinking about further down the African coast and the South China seas. There are plenty of other nationalities involved and I guess the main reason Somalia is a haven, is the lack of govenment and policing of ports there.


The Malaca straights are a good place to find pirates!

From experience the best defence against pirates is to look imposing.....

<img src=http://www.navymuseum.mil.nz/nr/rdonlyres/ba4c37e1-e370-4a57-aaa6-95f41cd8b2de/0/temanaleadingthewayleavingaucklandharbour2005.jpg>

[Swoop]

Solving The Somali Pirate Mess
November 19, 2008: The recent pirate attack on a 1,800 foot long, 300,000 ton tanker 700 kilometers off the Somali coast, has raised the stakes in the battle with the Somali pirates. The piracy has been a growing problem off the Somali coast for over a decade. The problem now is that there are hundreds of experienced pirates. And these guys have worked out a system that is very lucrative, and not very risky.

For most of the past decade, the pirates preyed on foreign fishing boats and the small, often sail powered, cargo boats the move close (within a hundred kilometers) of the shore. During that time, the pirates developed contacts with businessmen in the Persian Gulf who could be used to negotiate (for a percentage) the ransoms with insurance companies and shipping firms. The pirates also mastered the skills needed to put a grappling hook on the railing, 30-40 feet above the water, of a large ship. Doing this at night, and then scrambling aboard, is more dangerous if the ship has lookouts, who can alert sailors trained to deploy high pressure fire hoses against the borders.

Few big ships carry any weapons, and most have small crews (12-30 sailors). Attacking at night finds most of the crew asleep. Rarely do these ships have any armed security. Ships can post additional lookouts when in areas believed to have pirates. Once pirates (speedboats full of armed men) are spotted, ships can increase speed (a large ship running at full speed, about 40+ kilometers an hour, can outrun most of the current speed boats the pirates have), and have fire hoses ready to be used to repel boarders. The pirates will fire their AK-47 assault rifles and RPG grenade launchers, but the sailors handling the fire hoses will stand back so the gunmen cannot get a direct shot.

Since the pirates take good care of their captives, the anti-piracy efforts cannot risk a high body count, lest they be accused of crimes against humanity, war crimes or simply bad behavior. The pirates have access to hundreds of sea going fishing boats, which can pretend to fish by day, and sneak up on merchant ships at night. The pirates often operate in teams, with one or more fishing boats acting as lookouts, and alerting another boat that a large, apparently unguarded, ship is headed their way. The pirate captain can do a simple calculation to arrange meeting the oncoming merchant vessel in the middle of the night. These fishing boats can carry inflatable boats with large outboard engines. Each of these can carry four or five pirates, their weapons and the grappling hook projectors needed to get the pirates onto the deck of a large ship. These big ships are very automated, and at night the only people on duty will be on the bridge. This is where the pirates go, to seize control of the ship. The rest of the crew is then rounded up. The pirates force the captain to take the ship to an anchorage near some Somali fishing village. There, more gunmen will board, and stand guard over crew and ship until the ransom is paid. Sometimes, part of the crew will be sent ashore, and kept captive there. The captive sailors are basically human shields for the pirates, to afford some protection from commando attacks.

Now that the pirates have demonstrated their ability to operate far (over 700 kilometers) from shore, it's no longer possible to use naval patrols. There is simply too much area to patrol. What the naval commanders are considering is a convoy system for any ships passing within a thousand kilometers of the Somali coast. But with ocean going ships, the pirates can operate anywhere in the region. Between the Gulf of Aden, and the Straits of Malacca to the east (between Singapore and Indonesia), you have a third of the worlds shipping. All are now at risk. Convoys for all these ships would require more warships (over a hundred) than can be obtained.

That leaves the option of a military operation to capture the seaside towns and villages the pirates operate from. This would include sinking hundreds of fishing boats and speedboats. Hundreds of civilians would be killed or injured. Unless the coastal areas were occupied (or until local Somalis could maintain law and order), the pirates would soon be back in business.

Pacifying Somalia is an unpopular prospect. Given the opprobrium heaped on the U.S. for doing something about Iraq, no one wants to be on the receiving end of that criticism for pacifying Somalia. The world also knows, from over a century of experience, that the Somalis are violent, persistent and unreliable. That's a combination that has made it impossible for the Somalis to even govern themselves. In the past, what is now Somalia has been ruled, by local and foreign rulers, through the use of violent methods that are no longer politically acceptable. But now the world is caught between accepting a "piracy tax" imposed by the Somalis, or going in and pacifying the unruly country and its multitude of bandits, warlords and pirates.

The piracy tax is basically a security surcharge on maritime freight movements. It pays for higher insurance premiums (which in turn pay for the pirate ransoms), danger bonuses for crews and the additional expense of all those warships off the Somali coast. Most consumers would hardly notice this surcharge, as it would increase sea freight charges by less than a percent. Already, many ships are going round the southern tip of Africa, and avoiding Somalia and the Suez canal altogether. Ships would still be taken. Indeed, about a third of the ships seized this year had taken precautions, but the pirates still got them. Warships could attempt an embargo of Somalia, not allowing seagoing ships in or our without a warship escort. Suspicious seagoing ships, and even speedboats, could be sunk in port. That would still produce some videos (real or staged, it doesn't matter) of dead civilians, but probably not so many that the anti-piracy force would be indicted as war criminals.

On the plus side, illegal fishing in Somali waters would diminish, because of the pirate threat. Suez canal traffic in the Gulf of Aden would get used to waiting for a convoy to form at either end of the 1,500 kilometers long route through pirate territory. There would still be enough ship captains stupid or impatient enough to make the "Aden Run" alone, and get caught by the pirates. The UN, and the heads of major world navies, would continue to agitate for a large peacekeeping force to go in. The UN because of the growing casualties among its food aid staff, and the admirals because of the toll of keeping nearly a hundred of warships and patrol aircraft stationed off Somalia in the endless anti-piracy patrol. Eventually, public opinion might lean towards pacification, rather than the endless anti-pirate patrol. Eventually, maybe. But for now the piracy is definitely there, and will grow larger if nothing decisive is done. Which is what has already been happening, and may continue to happen.

[FJRider]

And when a problem (pirates), in one area is "taken care of"... the problem moves to another area. And the cycle continues...

On the plus side, the Indian navy reportedly sunk a pirate mother ship... lets see how that pans out in the great scheme of "pirate activity"

[Paul in NZ]

And when a problem (pirates), in one area is "taken care of"... the problem moves to another area. And the cycle continues...

On the plus side, the Indian navy reportedly sunk a pirate mother ship... lets see how that pans out in the great scheme of "pirate activity"

Drat........

http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/ov/archive/2008/11/26/how-not-to-deal-with-the-pirates.aspx

[Ixion]

Irrelevant. The ship was in the control of pirates and opened fire upon the INS vessel. Traditionally it was common for pirates to take over ships they had captured.

The deaths of the (captured) crew are regrettable, but in such activities some collateral damage must be expected. Anything that opens fire on a King's ship is fair game.

[Swoop]

November 27, 2008: There's a gold rush atmosphere on northern Somalia's "pirate coast." More gangs are being formed, and going hunting. The gangs have an informal organization, which largely consists of not getting into each others' way. The local government of Puntland (a tribal coalition that had brought peace to this corner of the country) has been bought off and intimidated into inaction. The local Islamic Courts gunmen are not numerous, but have declared the taking of ships owned by Moslems to be bad. Plundering infidel ships is another matter, which the Islamic radicals are rather more vague on.

What it comes down to is that the piracy will continue and grow until the pirates no longer have bases. Nothing new about this. Similar piracy situations have arisen for thousands of years, and have been eliminated the same way; you go after the bases. But no one wants to step forward and do this. In the past this was less of a problem, because there was no mass media quick to find fault with any government action. But there's also the nature of the enemy. The Somalis have been a regional menace for centuries, raiding and threatening neighbors with all manner of mayhem. The Somalis are persistent and resourceful fighters. British 19th century colonial administrators learned that the best way to deal with Somali outlaws was to "shoot on sight, shoot first, shoot to kill, keep shooting." Not unexpectedly, post-colonial Somalia proved unable to govern itself. The tribal rivalries kept the pot boiling, and even the rise of a "clean government" party (the Islamic Courts), based on installing a religious dictatorship, backfired. Too many Somalis were willing to fight the Islamic radicals, who were also handicapped by their support for al Qaeda and international Islamic terrorism.

In the past (before the European colonialists showed up) a form of order was imposed by having more reasonable (and often non-Somali) powers hold the coastal cities and towns, enabling trade with the outside world. One had to accept a near constant state of war, or just the banditry, with the interior tribes. There were periods of peace, as warlords established temporary kingdoms, but was never the notion that peace was something that would last. The Somalis were constantly at war with their neighbors, usually in the form of Somalis raiding into Kenya and Ethiopia, and sometimes getting attacked in turn by "punitive raids" (to discourage raiding, for a while anyway.)

Local Arab and African governments are looking to the West (the owners of most of the ships being plundered) to deal with the problem. The West is looking to the United States to take the lead. The U.S. got burned (by the Somalis and the mass media) the last time (1993) it tried to bring peace to Somalia. What will happen now is all these nations will squabble among themselves over who will do the deed, until the piracy gets so bad that someone blinks. Egypt is particularly nervous, as major ships are starting to avoid the Gulf of Aden, and the Suez canal. This could eventually deprive Egypt of millions of dollars a day in canal transit fees. It will cost shipping companies even more to send their slower and more vulnerable (to pirates) ships around the southern tip of Africa. But what will really bring in the marines (U.S. or otherwise) will be greedy pirates to pull more stunts like going after the huge tankers entering and leaving the Persian Gulf. This trade is vital to international commerce and the world economy. Put too much hurt on the big money, and the big stick comes out. The media have their irresistible wartime headlines, Somalia has some form of peace, and a decrease in population. The Somalis don't fight like the Iraqis or Afghans (who don't fight like each other either). The Somalis have shorter fuses, and come at you with more vigor and determination. They are not really difficult to defeat, but it's messy. The Somalis like making war a family affair, and will use civilians as human shields. They have embraced the use of suicide bombers, roadside bombs and all manner of modern Moslem mayhem. Short of some unprecedented national attitude adjustment, the Somalis will continue being difficult and deadly to deal with.

The Islamic radical groups now control most of Somalia south of Mogadishu. The Transitional National Government (TNG) keeps trying to achieve a compromise deal to unite most of the tribes (called clans here), but compromise is not a popular thing in Somalia, nor is trust. The Islamic radicals have popular appeal among the tribes, because the radicals are the least corrupt and capricious armed group in the country. But the Islamic radicals also try to impose strict lifestyle rules on everyone, and that is not popular. Thus the very peace that the Islamic radicals bring with them, is quickly undermined by the actions of the "lifestyle police" the radicals unleash. More moderate Islamic radicals could easily take over the country. But the problem with Islamic radicalism is there is always a competition among factions to be more radical than thou. This leads to internal strife and collapse of the movement. Then there's always the tribal politics, and the inability of tribal and warlord groups to compromise to form a united government. Not enough Somali leaders have accepted the fact that the old ways just are not working. Then again, many Somalis have a different concept of peace and prosperity. In times past, the losers in these tribal wars would all die, or be absorbed into the victorious tribe. But these days you have international relief efforts. So two million Somalis are surviving on foreign aid. This refugee community produces more angry young men, ready to take up the gun and go get some tribal justice, or just get rich.

The UN is trying to make an arms embargo in Somalia work. The UN has authorized the use of asset freezes and travel restrictions against gunrunners. This has not worked in the past, and will probably not work now. With the Ethiopians leaving Mogadishu by the end of the year, it's going to be the UN and AU (African Union) trying to maintain some form of order in the city. The UN is also under pressure to authorize a naval blockade of Somalia. This would be difficult and expensive to carry out, what with a 3,000 kilometer coastline, and lots of determined pirates. The blockade would have to be maintained (and paid for) "indefinitely", or until someone went in and imposed peace on the country. NATO has flat out refused to consider helping out with a blockade.

November 26, 2008: Up north in Puntland, bandits kidnapped two British journalists, and held them for ransom. Three other foreign journalists are being held in Mogadishu. Somali bandits are trying to get ransoms of half a million dollars or more for each of these reporters.

November 22, 2008: A small (several dozen gunmen) group of Islamic radicals announced that they would find those responsible for seizing the Saudi owned tanker, and punish the pirates for attacking Moslems. The Islamic radicals made a show of driving around Puntland waving their guns and shouting slogans. But with a potential ransom of over $10 million, the Saudi tanker is well guarded by even more determined Somalis.

November 21, 2008: Pirates released a chemical tanker, and its crew of 19, after two months of captivity. Apparently a ransom (of over two million dollars in cash) had been paid.

November 19, 2008: As of today, the pirates have seized nine ships in twelve days. One of those ships, a Thai fishing trawler, fishing illegally in Somali waters, was approached by an Indian frigate shortly after the pirates took over. The pirates fired on the Indian warship, which returned fire and destroyed the trawler. Apparently most of the pirates and trawler crew were killed. It took a several days for it to become clear that the Indians had not destroyed a pirate "mother ship", but a recently captured fishing boat. These craft are often used as mother ships, but only after the original crews are disposed of (ransomed or murdered). The pirates prefer to collect ransom on these large fishing boats, and believe they are acting as an informal "coast guard", and halting illegal fishing, by doing so. The pirates consider the ransom for fishing boats to be "fines", and that foreign warships have no right to interfere with this coast guard business.

[Ixion]

What it comes down to is that the piracy will continue and grow until the pirates no longer have bases. Nothing new about this. Similar piracy situations have arisen for thousands of years, and have been eliminated the same way; you go after the bases. But no one wants to step forward and do this.

Yep. Again. Repeat again.

Warship offshore, bombard. Or, cruise scallops (I don't like mussels). Or , let the Marines (Royal or US, either are competent) loose on them.

Destroy the bases. Destroy the houses, wharves, installations. Shoot everything that moves . Move onto the next base.

It will make the Somali young men even angrier you say? Big deal. If they get angry, shoot them.



Sorted.

[Paul in NZ]

It will make the Somali young men even angrier you say? Big deal. If they get angry, shoot them.Sorted.

And continue to shoot them until they calm down or get taxi licenses I say

[Ixion]

Pretty much. Dunno that I'd rely too much on calming down though. Nothin' says luvin' like a burst of AK47.

[Paul in NZ]

Pretty much. Dunno that I'd rely too much on calming down though. Nothin' says luvin' like a burst of AK47.

Send in the blackhawks - oh - um - other hawks then.. (hollywood needs a new script)

[Winston001]

In the past (before the European colonialists showed up) a form of order was imposed by having more reasonable (and often non-Somali) powers hold the coastal cities and towns, enabling trade with the outside world. One had to accept a near constant state of war, or just the banditry, with the interior tribes. There were periods of peace, as warlords established temporary kingdoms, but was never the notion that peace was something that would last. The Somalis were constantly at war with their neighbors, usually in the form of Somalis raiding into Kenya and Ethiopia, and sometimes getting attacked in turn by "punitive raids" (to discourage raiding, for a while anyway.)



Another great post Swoop, very informative. :Punk:

Herein lies the problem - a culture of confict. Now where else has the West come across that........and lost? Afghanistan. We should probably add northern Pakistan too.

In the past this culture was localised and didn't impact on the outer world. Now with modern weapons it's getting a lot harder to ignore. The Afghanistani warlords haven't gone away or become trustworthy, neither will that happen in Somalia any time soon.

It will be interesting to see where this piracy problem goes. If the EU won't attack the bases it's hard to see why the US should. That invites China to step in as a white knight and I doubt they would be pussyfooted about it.

India would consider that a vast insult into its area of influence so might just do the job instead.......

[Swoop]

India would consider that a vast insult into its area of influence so might just do the job instead.......
India has just spent $4Billion on the purchase and refurbisment/modernisation of the ex Russian Navy fleet carrier.
They are also spending $800 Million on aicraft for her deck...

Coupled with the lease arrangement of the Akula II class submarine, India is getting set up to look after her own ocean, quite effectively.

[Swoop]

Russia is planning to send more warships to the Somali coast, along with some commandos and a particularly Russian style of counter-piracy operations. In other words, the Russians plan to go old school on the Somali pirates, and use force to rescue ships currently held, and act ruthlessly against real or suspected pirates it encounters at sea.

This could cause diplomatic problems with the other nations providing warships for counter-piracy operations off the Somali coast. That's because the current ships have, so far, followed a policy of not attempting rescue operations (lest captive sailors get hurt) and not firing on pirates unless fired on first. Russia believes this approach only encourages the pirates.

Russia is planning on bringing along commandos from Spetsgruppa Vympel. These are hostage rescue experts, formed two decades ago as a spinoff from the original Russian army Spetsnaz commandos. This came about when various organizations in the Soviet government decided that they could use a few Spetsnaz type troops for their own special needs. Thus in the 1970s and 80s there appeared Spetsnaz clones called Spetsgruppa. The most use of these was Spetsgruppa Alfa (Special Group A), which was established in 1974 to do the same peacetime work as the U.S. Delta Force or British SAS. In other words; anti-terrorist assignments or special raids. It was Spetsgruppa Alfa that was sent to Kabul, Afghanistan, in 1980 to make sure the troublesome Afghan president Amin and his family were eliminated from the scene (killed). Survivors (members of the presidential palace staff) of the Spetsgruppa Alfa assault reported that the Spetsnaz troopers systematically hunted down and killed their targets with a minimum of fuss. Very professional. The surviving Afghans were suitably impressed. Spetsgruppa Alfa now belongs to the FSB (successor to the KGB) and number about 300 men (and a few women.) At the same time Spetsgruppa Alfa was established, another section of the KGB organized Spetsgruppa Vympel. This group was trained to perform wartime assassination and kidnapping jobs for the KGB. The FSB also inherited Spetsgruppa Vympel, which is a little smaller than Spetsgruppa Alpha and is used mainly for hostage rescue.

[Ixion]

Ah. As I said earlier, the problem will soon be over. Mr Putin will sort it. The only western leader with balls.

[Swoop]

Over the last decade, the Somali pirates have developed an infrastructure of agents and advisors that enable them to negotiate large ransoms for hijacked ships. The pirates themselves belong to about half a dozen gangs, which are based in towns on Somalia's northern coast. This is safely away from the Islamic radical ("Islamic Courts") warlords further south. The Islamic Courts have threatened to shut down the pirates, mainly because all those foreign warships off the coast interfere with terrorist activities the Islamic radicals support.

The gunmen who work for the pirate chiefs get paid enough to just get by, and the big money is made if you manage to capture a ship. A dozen or more pirates usually go out on a larger boat (a captured fishing boat) with two or more speed boats in tow, seeking a ship to hijack. Sometimes, several of these larger boats will cooperate to track down and grab a large merchant ship. If a crew is successful in grabbing a ship (and most of these trips, which can last several days, are not), they then bring the ship back to the north coast and drop anchor near the town that is their base. Their boss will arrange for the crew of the hijacked ship to be cared for (either on the ship or ashore) and assign more pirates to guard the ship and crew.

The pirate chief will also bring in an experienced negotiator. These are usually local businessmen, who have developed the proper connections and knowledge over the past decade. Contacting the shipping company that owns the captured vessel is easy, as the ship itself has the contact information, and satellite phones on which to make the call. Most, if not all, of the negotiators have business connections in the Persian Gulf, and this has sometimes come into play during haggling for the ransom, and making arrangements for payment.

The ship owner calls in the insurance company, which then engages professional negotiators. The insurance company and the shipping company will spend $300-500,000 on negotiators, lawyers and cash transportation specialists to carry out the deal. Of late, the negotiations have taken about two months, and a ransom of one or two million is usually paid. This tends to be delivered, in cash, usually via a well armed tugboat coming north from Kenya (where ports like Mombassa have banks that can supply the required amount of currency, usually, per the pirates request, in used, but recent, $50 and $100 notes). The armed cash escorts bring the money to the ship, the pirates haul it ($2 million in hundreds weighs less than 30 pounds) aboard, count it, then leave with their loot. At that point, some of the armed escorts stay with the ship as the crew fires up its engines and gets them away from Somalia.

The ransom is usually divided according to a previously agreed on formula of shares. This is how pirates have done it for centuries. The pirate chief often gets about half the ransom, and takes care of most expenses out of that share. The pirates don't begrudge the boss his half, because the pirate gang is kept together by this guy, and his personal stash of cash. The pirates who actually took the ship, and the negotiator, get shares that can amount to five percent (or more) of the ransom per man. For a two million dollar ransom, that's $100,000 per man. This is a fortune in this part of the world. You can buy a nice new house, take a wife (or another wife), buy a fishing boat or shop and, basically, be set for life. This payout, in cash, encourages the other pirates in the gang, and everyone in the neighborhood. Parties are usually thrown, and a good time is had by all. Meanwhile, the insurance companies plan their next rate hike for ships that feel they must travel near the Somali coast.

[vifferman]

The pirates themselves belong to about half a dozen gangs, which are based in towns on Somalia's northern coast. This is safely away from the Islamic radical ("Islamic Courts") warlords further south. The Islamic Courts have threatened to shut down the pirates, mainly because all those foreign warships off the coast interfere with terrorist activities the Islamic radicals support.
Apparently not far distant enough to be "safely away"; there was an article in The Harold recently about the warlords paying the pirates a visit. It wasn't really clear from the article if their point was to say, "Pull your heads in and stop it!" or "Give us some of the loot!" Perhaps a bit of both, or maybe it was just a bit of macho posturing?

[Swoop]

Prepare To Repel Boarders
March 13, 2009: The Somali pirates are having a harder time taking merchant ships for ransom. It’s not for lack of traffic. The Gulf of Aden, where most of the pirates operate, is one the busiest shipping lanes in the world (with nearly ten percent of world traffic). Each month, 1500-1600 ships pass the northern coast of Somalia. Last year, about one out of 200 ships was attacked. Because of that, the chances of getting attacked were so low that most crews did not pay much attention to it.
But the millions paid out in ransoms for the 42 ships that were taken, had to be paid for. Soon it was costing all ships an additional $20,000 in insurance, fuel and danger bonus costs to transit the 1,500 kilometer length of the Gulf of Aden. Owners incurred additional costs if one of their ships was seized, although insurance companies are willing to offer policies for that as well. So, in the past year, most owners have ordered their captains to prepare their crews for the possibility of pirate attacks while transiting the Gulf.

As a result, most merchant ships are more prepared for pirate attacks. They put on extra lookouts, especially at night, and often transit the 1,500 kilometer long Gulf of Aden at high speed (even though this costs them thousands of dollars in additional fuel). The pirates seek the slower moving, apparently unwary, ships, and go after them before they can speed up enough to get away. The international anti-piracy patrol offers convoy protection, but many ships don't want to halt and wait for a convoy to form. Ships that decide to proceed on their own, take additional precautions.

An example of these precautions can be seen in the experience of a Chinese cargo ship, the Zhenhua 4, last December. Back then, the ship was boarded by Somali pirates in the Gulf of Aden. The resolute crew retreated to their living quarters and called for help. As the pirates came aboard, the crew fought back with fire bombs and fire hoses, and refused to come out of the living quarters. The pirates fired at the crew, and were apparently perplexed at what to do. Meanwhile, a nearby Malaysian warship dispatched a helicopter, which shot at the pirates and caused them to flee in their speedboats. The crew of the Zhenhua 4 patched up the bullet holes and resumed their voyage.

The resistance on the Zhenhua 4 was no accident. The captain had worked out a drill to resist boarders, and had the crew rehearse it ten days before they were attacked. Moreover, the Chinese were aware that, on October 30th, 2007, a North Korean merchant ship, the Dai Hong Dan, was boarded by pirates off the coast of Somalia. The North Koreans managed to get off a distress message. The ship was in international waters, 108 kilometers off the coast, unloading sugar to smaller boats. This offshore unloading arrangement was supposed to protect the North Koreans from pirates. The pirates were actually armed guards hired to protect the crew from real pirates during this unloading operation. The North Koreans fought back, killed some of the pirates (and lost some crew members) and regained control of their ship.

The Internet have proved an invaluable tool for ships planning for the Aden run. Everyone knows of the measures used by the Zhenhua 4 and the North Koreans, but there are many more ideas that have not gotten much coverage in the mass media. For example, crews now make more use of the fire hoses, and collect large objects (sheets of metal, junked furniture and empty boxes) to be heaved overboard onto the pirate boats. Poles are fabricated for pushing away ladders pirates often use to get aboard. The captains and crew members on the Internet exchange techniques for training crews, and preparing "repel boarders" drills. Sailors that have been aboard captured ships, and spent months in captivity, relate what that experience was like, and let other sailors know what to expect. This encourages the merchant ship sailors to pay closer attention to the drills and techniques to be used to avoid capture in the first place. Captains pay particular attention to the use of speed and maneuvering successfully used to avoid the approaching pirate speedboats. This may not always enable the ships to escape, but it does provide time for the troops to get ready to repel the pirates attempting to board.

These efforts by the crews have led to nearly 250 pirates being captured, in the past six months, by warships that often show up. While half these pirates were simply disarmed and released, the other half were held for possible (although unlikely) prosecution. This pressure is causing the pirates to try different tactics, like more operations at night, and far off the east coast (where ships too large for the Suez canal head south to go around Africa for the Atlantic.) Captains travelling off the east coast have been on the alert since late last year, when a Saudi supertanker was seized as it headed south. That ship was only recently released, after a $3 million ransom was paid. No matter how hard the pirates try, things will never as easy as they were in 2008.

[Winston001]

Thanks for keeping us up to date Swoop, fascinating to learn about this see-saw balance on the high seas.

[Winston001]

How about those US snipers huh! Firing from the deck of a ship rolling on the ocean, at a small lifeboat also rolling up and down. Three shots, three hits.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/piracy/5149144/Three-snipers-three-bullets-three-dead-Somali-pirates.html

[SARGE]

How about those US snipers huh! Firing from the deck of a ship rolling on the ocean, at a small lifeboat also rolling up and down. Three shots, three hits.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/piracy/5149144/Three-snipers-three-bullets-three-dead-Somali-pirates.html

oooh RA!!!! .. Go the S.E.A.L.s


http://www.pownetwork.org/phonies/images/trident_front.jpg


one shot .. one kill .. no regrets


but shit man .. a US Navy SEAL at 100 feet(even in the pitching sea) with 2 of the 3 heads sticking out of the boat is easier than Skiddy stopping from 60 KPH in 2m

[scumdog]

How about those US snipers huh! Firing from the deck of a ship rolling on the ocean, at a small lifeboat also rolling up and down. Three shots, three hits.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/piracy/5149144/Three-snipers-three-bullets-three-dead-Somali-pirates.html

Three waste of space types wasted.
Regardless of age etc.



Woulda shot them myself in the blink of an eye, even if I had to pay for the bullets it would have been worth it.

[MD]

Yep. Today's news was just what I was getting at with my opening post to this thread.

Why is this simple solution beyond the simple folks at Lloyds of London;

Pay out US$5m to US$30m per ship hijacked or place a few well trained sharpshooters/mercenaries on each boat and pop off anyone or any small vessel that approaches. Cost per sailing - a few thousand dollars in wages and five dollars for bullets. The Yanks just proved how effective and economical three well placed bullets can be!
WELL DONE. can't wait for the movie to come out...and it will. I bet Hollywood are scrambbling right now to secure the stories

[98tls]

Nice work eh,a few more dead skinnys,did them a favour really starving to death would suck.

[Swoop]

April 9, 2009: Somali pirates are now operating as far east as the Seychelles, which are a group of 115 islands 1,500 kilometers from the African coast. The islands have a total population of 85,000 and no military power to speak of. They are defenseless against pirates. So are many of the ships moving north and south off the East Coast of Africa. While ships making the Gulf of Aden run know they must take measures to deal with pirate attacks (posting lookouts 24/7, training the crew to use fire hoses and other measures to repel boarders, hanging barbed wire on the railings and over the side to deter boarders), this is not so common for ships operating a thousand kilometers or more off the east coast of Africa. Ships in this area were warned late last year that they were at risk. Now, the pirates are out in force, demonstrating that the risk is real.
The pirates are media savvy, and are pushing the line that they are simply patriots, getting payback for the foreigners who illegally fish in Somali waters (common) and dump toxic wastes off the coast (rare, but makes for great headlines). There are over a thousand gunmen attached to pirate gangs in the north, although the group operating off the east coast pay "taxes" to al Shabaab for the use of several fishing villages. Most of the ships seized late last year were taken closer to the Yemeni coast, thus showing that the entire Gulf of Aden (between Yemen and Somalia, with the Indian ocean to the east and the entrance to the Red Sea to the west) was subject to pirate attacks. Despite the scary headlines this has generated, world trade, or even traffic to the Suez Canal (at the north end of the Red Sea) is not threatened. While ten percent of world shipping traffic goes through the Gulf of Aden each year, most of it is in ships too fast for the pirates to catch, and too large for them to easily get aboard. These ships pay higher fuel costs (for the high speed transit), higher insurance premiums, and two days of "danger pay" for their unionized crews, and that's it. This increases the annual operating costs of these ships by a fraction of one percent. But for smaller, and slower, freighters, mostly serving local customers, the pirates remain a problem. These ships tend to be owned by African and Arab companies, and manned by African and Arab crews.

In dealing with a piracy problem like this, you have three main choices. You can do what is currently being done, which is patrolling the Gulf of Aden and shooting only when you see speedboats full of gunmen threatening a merchant ship. The rule appears to be that you fire lots of warning shots, and rarely fire at the pirates themselves. This approach has saved a few ships from capture, and the more warships you get into the Gulf, the more pirate attacks you can foil. But it won't stop the pirates from capturing ships. Establishing a similar anti-piracy patrol off the east coast of Africa would cost over half a billion dollars a year, at least.

A second approach is to be more aggressive. That is, your ships and helicopters shoot (pirates) on sight and shoot to kill. Naturally, the pirates will hide their weapons (until they are in the act of taking a ship), but it will still be obvious what a speedboat full of "unarmed" men are up to. You could take a chance (of dead civilians and bad publicity) and shoot up any suspicious speedboat. Some of the pirates would probably resort to taking some women and children with them. Using human shields is an old custom, and usually works against Westerners. More pirate attacks will be thwarted with this approach, but the attacks will continue, and NATO will be painted as murderous bullies in the media.

The third option is to go ashore and kill or capture all the pirates, or at least as many as you can identify. Destroy pirate boats and weapons. This is very dangerous, because innocent civilians will be killed or injured, and the property of non-pirates will be damaged. The anti-piracy forces will be condemned in some quarters for committing atrocities. There might even be indictments for war crimes. There will be bad publicity. NATO will most likely avoid this option too. The bottom line is that the pirate attacks, even if they took two or three times as many ships as last year, would not have a meaningful economic impact on world shipping. For example, the international anti-piracy patrol in the Gulf of Aden costs $300 million a year, a fraction of a percent of the defense budgets of the nations involved. Politicians and bureaucrats can stand that kind of pain, and will likely do so and refrain from doing anything bold in Somalia.

Somali refugees are a growing problem. Not so much because there are more and more of them, but because so many of them are criminals. Kenya, which has suffered from Somali raiders for centuries, is now turning back Somalis seeking asylum. The UN has condemned this, and demands that Kenya allow a fourth Somali refugee camp be established in northeastern Kenya. The three camps already there hold over 250,000 Somalis. The UN is also trying to get Kenya to stop sending Somali refugees back to Somali. Kenya accepted 60,000 Somali refugees last year, and have had no end of problems with them. Over 20,000 Somali refugees entered Kenya this year. Somali gunmen try, and often succeed, in using the refugee camps as rest areas. Worse, the Somali gunmen sometimes do some looting in Kenya, instead of going back to Somali to steal. So Kenya has told the UN to stuff it, and is turning away most Somalis trying to flee into Kenya. But the UN insists that peace can only be achieved if a deal is negotiated with the Islamic radicals and most powerful warlords. That's difficult, because these groups cannot even agree among themselves who shall rule all of Somalia. Moreover, the Islamic radicals, especially al Shabaab, wants to establish an Islamic state in Somalia, and later the world. The UN believes it is possible to negotiate around these obstacles, but is vague on exactly how that will be done.

Somali Islamic radical groups Al Shabaab has warned Kenya to not interfere with its gunmen operating along the border. This is a seemingly bold, but typically Somali, attitude towards Kenyans. In this case, Kenya has a lot of powerful allies, like the United States, and is not that intimidated. But the Somalis militants are violent and unpredictable, so the Kenyans are braced for anything. For the last two years, Kenya has officially closed the border, but Somalis continue to use it (for fleeing as refugees, or smuggling both ways). With more Islamic terrorists operating openly in Somalia, under the protection of al Shabaab, the security of the Kenyan border becomes more important. Islamic terrorists can use Kenyan airports and ports to get in and out, although there is less scrutiny up north in Puntland and Somaliland (where passage to Yemen, Sudan or Saudi Arabia is easily arranged.) Eritrea and Sudan are particularly hospitable to Islamic radicals.

Other nations are imposing more restrictions on Somalis fleeing the anarchy in Somalia. The Netherlands recently decided to stop automatically granting asylum to Somalis illegally entering the country, because many were criminals or using fraud to claim asylum. Smuggling Somalis into Europe is a big business for the network of criminal gangs from Somalia, Yemen, Africa and Europe. Somalis who can pay, send smuggle family members to safety in Europe and North America. Some of the men return to fight for clan or religious militias. A Somali, who was a naturalized Canadian citizen, was recently reported killed while involved in a raid into Ethiopia, while another is accused of carrying out political assassinations inside Somalia.

Al Shabaab and the Transitional National Government (TNG, now run by more moderate Islamic radicals) are trying to gain more control over foreign aid groups. The foreign aid is the main source of food for several million Somalis, and a major source of income for warlords (including al Shabaab and several groups that support the TNG). The aid groups are forces to pay for security (a "protection racket") in order to assure the safety of their staff. This has not always worked. Last year, 34 aid workers were killed in Somalia, 26 were kidnapped, and 13 of these are still being held (for ransom, or other considerations). Al Shabaab and the TNG have fought each other to a standstill in southern Somalia, and are trying to negotiate some kind of understanding.

April 8, 2009: An American container ship, the Maersk Alabama, headed for Mombasa, Kenya, with relief supplies for Somali refugees, was attacked by pirates, who briefly took control of the ship. The American crew fought back, and drove the pirates off. But during the struggle, the pirates kept the American captain captive, while the crew seized one of the pirates. Negotiations ensued, and a deal was made to exchange prisoners. The Americans released their Somali captive, who went to join his fellow pirates in a small boat sitting next to the 481 foot (155m) long container ship. But then the pirates refused to release their captive, and a standoff ensued. An American destroyed showed up the next day, to add its weight to the negotiations.

[Swoop]

April 7, 2009: In the last two days, Somali pirates seized five ships off the east coast, often hundreds of kilometers out to sea. It's believed that several pirate mother ships (seagoing fishing boats towing one or more speedboats) are patrolling the East African shipping lanes, where there are few pirate ships patrolling. The pirates now have 17 ships, and over 250 sailors, being held for ransom.

April 5, 2009: A Yemeni ocean going tugboat, and its seven man crew, were seized by Somali pirates off the east coast.

April 3, 2009: Puntland has established a coast guard, to regulate (and tax) foreign fishing boats operating off its coast. But no country officially recognizes the government of Puntland, and recently, two Greek fishing boats resisted, with gunfire, being seized (for illegal fishing) by the Puntland coast guard. Many consider the Puntland coast guard to be a semi-official pirate organization.

[carver]

i might have found my new job.....how much for a inflateable boat?

[peasea]

I would have thought something along the lines of a Dreadnought would be preferable.

[Ixion]

This problem is not a new one. The world has been there before, just a different place, different people. And the solution is the same.

One of the earliest actions that the new-fledged US Marines were involved in was cleaning out pirates' nests , which were exactly the same in operation and ethos to those of Somalia today.

Those pirates were located on the Barbary coast , of what is now Tripoli (The Marines' Hymn runs "From the halls to Monte Zuma to the shores of Tripoli", in commemoration of this action.)

IN October 1803 , the Tripoli pirates captured a USN frigate which had run aground, and seized its crew as hostages (in one of history's deep ironies, it was commanded by Captain Bainbridge!). In Feb 1804 the frigate was recaptured by one Lt Decatur (such famous names) . The pirates had by now, however, thoroughly pissed off Pres Jefferson, who possessed more balls than modern prezzies , and told the Navy and the new Marine Corps to sort them out.

In April 1805 , 500 US Marines who had marched from Alexandria to Tripoli, through the desert (yes , it *is* a fucking long way , and yes, it *is* fucking hot), fought the Battle of Derne, captured the city and sacked it, killing off all pirates in the vicinity.

This quietened them down, but it as not till the Royal Navy under Admiral Pellew (more famous names - and King William IV's famous message to the admiral, "Go it, Ned " ) , with a contingent from the Dutch navy stood offshore and bombarded Algiers, killing off pretty much everybody in the city, that the Barbary pirates were relegated to nuisance factor.

The European powers after the Battle Of Algiers continued to mount punitive expeditions every time the pirates tried to raise their heads. In the course of pacification, it is estimated that one third of the population of Tripoli was killed . Tripoli was thenceforth related to the footnotes of history. Served them right.

Same problem, same solution will work. I reckon that 500 modern marines, and the RN would be quite up to repeating their predecessors achievements , given a free hand and freedom from politically correct bleeding hearts. If that means bombarding Somalia, and killing off one third (or more) of the population, so be it. Serves them right.

[peasea]

The European powers after the Battle Of Algiers continued to mount punitive expeditions every time the pirates tried to raise their heads. In the course of pacification, it is estimated that one third of the population of Tripoli was killed . Tripoli was thenceforth related to the footnotes of history. Served them right.

Same problem, same solution will work. I reckon that 500 modern marines, and the RN would be quite up to repeating their predecessors achievements , given a free hand and freedom from politically correct bleeding hearts. If that means bombarding Somalia, and killing off one third (or more) of the population, so be it. Serves them right.

Ixion for President!!! (Of the world.)

[jetboy]

I fail to understand why these ships are being hi-jacked. Are we not talking about a vessel with hi-tech equipment hailing from a developed nation being overrun by primitive-by-comparisson folk in blow-up boats? And with this fleet of destroyers all in the area?

Unbelievable.

[Finn]

Ixion for President!!! (Of the world.)

Be careful, the lads got a hidden agenda.

[Indiana_Jones]

I fail to understand why these ships are being hi-jacked. Are we not talking about a vessel with hi-tech equipment hailing from a developed nation being overrun by primitive-by-comparisson folk in blow-up boats? And with this fleet of destroyers all in the area?

Unbelievable.

Small boats are very hard to pick up on radar and to see from the air at night when most pirate attacks are.

Surprise is the key to their attacks working. Also the ocean is a big place, easy to mess a super tanker in it let alone a 10ft boat.

-Indy

[Pixie]

I feel safe that the Somali immigrants that the clarke government invited into our country are not pirates.

They were thoroughly checked for eye patches and daggers clenched between their teeth.

[jonbuoy]

I fail to understand why these ships are being hi-jacked. Are we not talking about a vessel with hi-tech equipment hailing from a developed nation being overrun by primitive-by-comparisson folk in blow-up boats? And with this fleet of destroyers all in the area?

Unbelievable.

As Indy said small boats are easy to manouver into radar blind spots - usually from behind and hard to see even when they aren´t. Naval warship radars have the same problem small boats don´t give off much of a return and get lost in the sea clutter. Its a big stretch of water, the boat I work on was possibly heading that way to get to the Maldives. In the end they cancelled due to the high insurance premium we would have to pay. The thought of squirting a fire hose at someone with a semi automatic didn´t apeal to me or any of the crew. Even a sonic cannon is only any good if you have enough notice and know what direction they are approaching from.

[awayatc]

What would you do to survive?

Would you not do whatever it takes......?

Not the Somalies who turned this planet into such a paradise.....

I'd still happily shoot them if I where onboard with suitable firepower...

But that is because I too would do whatever it takes to survive....

[jonbuoy]

What would you do to survive?

Would you not do whatever it takes......?

Not the Somalies who turned this planet into such a paradise.....

I'd still happily shoot them if I where onboard with suitable firepower...

But that is because I too would do whatever it takes to survive....

They´ve been smart enough not to kill or seriously injure any people from the first world, treat them like shit maybe but better that than dead. I wouldn´t risk my life for a company.

[jetboy]

As Indy said small boats are easy to manouver into radar blind spots - usually from behind and hard to see even when they aren´t. Naval warship radars have the same problem small boats don´t give off much of a return and get lost in the sea clutter. Its a big stretch of water, the boat I work on was possibly heading that way to get to the Maldives. In the end they cancelled due to the high insurance premium we would have to pay. The thought of squirting a fire hose at someone with a semi automatic didn´t apeal to me or any of the crew. Even a sonic cannon is only any good if you have enough notice and know what direction they are approaching from.

Fair enough re: the radar.....but you must surely know when the bastards are beginning to board? Pop a couple of rounds into the skull of the lead boarder from above as he climbs up his rope or ladder.

One would have thought that the cost of hiring a few mercenaries trained in the art of warfare would be bugger all compared to the cost of the cargo and vessel itself, let alone loss of income after the hi-jack? I know if it were me I'd hire mercenaries or at the very least train my crew up to handle weapons (e.g. automatics, grenades etc) to protect my stuff from these pirates. I'd rather die protecting my property than squirt some Somalian holding a gun with a water cannon only to be overrun in the end with the possibility of being killed anyway.

The sooner people start eliminating these pirates with lethal force, the sooner they get the message that its not just a matter of jumping on a cargo ship and taking control. And if they don't get the message at least they will reduce in numbers.

[malfunconz]

nuke somalia one night quietly may be no one will notice for a few days

[awayatc]

why? don't you like pirates?

They and the Talibanies are my favourite muppets...,

Oh and don't forget Osama bin there done that ...

[Kickaha]

The sooner people start eliminating these pirates with lethal force, the sooner they get the message that its not just a matter of jumping on a cargo ship and taking control. And if they don't get the message at least they will reduce in numbers.

If they take that kind of tactic then they need to make sure there are no survivors so they can't go running back to their mates and tooling up even more

[jetboy]

If they take that kind of tactic then they need to make sure there are no survivors so they can't go running back to their mates and tooling up even more

Bingo!

:mega::finger::2guns::ar15::done:

[Indiana_Jones]

If they take that kind of tactic then they need to make sure there are no survivors so they can't go running back to their mates and tooling up even more

The whole point of high-jacking the ships is to get the crew as well.

Without the crew they have nothing, it's their only bargining chip. Once that's gone out of the window the navies will just sending boarding parties etc and shoot all the skinnies

-Indy

[Dave Lobster]

I fail to understand why these ships are being hi-jacked. Are we not talking about a vessel with hi-tech equipment hailing from a developed nation being overrun by primitive-by-comparisson folk in blow-up boats? And with this fleet of destroyers all in the area?

Unbelievable.

It doesn't matter which battle it is.. whereever in the world. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter how much hi tech gear you've got, the battle will boil down to you shooting an enemy soldier who has nothing more than an AK47 - and a cause.

[awayatc]

Vietnam
Afghanistan
Serbia/bosnia
Somalia
South Auckland.....

[jonbuoy]

Fair enough re: the radar.....but you must surely know when the bastards are beginning to board? Pop a couple of rounds into the skull of the lead boarder from above as he climbs up his rope or ladder.

One would have thought that the cost of hiring a few mercenaries trained in the art of warfare would be bugger all compared to the cost of the cargo and vessel itself, let alone loss of income after the hi-jack? I know if it were me I'd hire mercenaries or at the very least train my crew up to handle weapons (e.g. automatics, grenades etc) to protect my stuff from these pirates. I'd rather die protecting my property than squirt some Somalian holding a gun with a water cannon only to be overrun in the end with the possibility of being killed anyway.

The sooner people start eliminating these pirates with lethal force, the sooner they get the message that its not just a matter of jumping on a cargo ship and taking control. And if they don't get the message at least they will reduce in numbers.

Training the crew isn't a great idea a two week training course isn't going to cut it against a gang of heavily armed pirates. Hiring security contractors is an option but if the Pirates start expecting return fire they will likely be a lot more aggressive. Would you seriously consider dying for the contents of your wallet/home. I know I wouldn't. I don't look forward to spending 6 weeks locked up but at the end if I can walk away with only cuts and bruises its better than the alternatives.

I agree on using lethal force - by trained military/government forces.

[Winston001]

One would have thought that the cost of hiring a few mercenaries trained in the art of warfare would be bugger all compared to the cost of the cargo and vessel itself.....

I'd rather die protecting my property than squirt some Somalian holding a gun with a water cannon only to be overrun in the end with the possibility of being killed anyway.


I think we'd like to agree but read Swoops posts - all of them. He comprehensively answers everything you suggest.

Modern ships carry minimal crew. The pirates operate small fast boats. They are up onboard before anyone has any idea they exist.

Ships crews are not trained in the use of weapons and don't hire on to get killed. Would you seriously offer to die to protect Talleys?

Mercs are a nice idea - 1500 ships a day sail the Gulf route - where are you going to get enough trustworthy guards to cover a months worth of ships??? And pay them....?

[ital916]

shoot all somalians = no more somalian pirates...

god...why doesnt someone go and build skynet already, that would sort the problems out quick smart.:whistle:

[Morcs]

god...why doesnt someone go and build skynet already, that would sort the problems out quick smart.:whistle:

Whoa talk about a dredge. that post was 6 months old...

[Swoop]

Embarrassing Consequences
April 16, 2009: Somali government (TNG) officials confirm that al Qaeda is using the country as a base, for training terrorists for attacks in neighboring Kenya, Ethiopia and Yemen. The most radical Somali faction, al Shabaab, has even recruited about a dozen young men from the Somali refugee community (of about 150,000 legal and illegal migrants) in the United States. The U.S. is now seeking to interrupt Somali pirate and terrorist factions access to banks in the region.
Somaliland accused neighboring Eritrea of training and sheltering Islamic terrorists who are staging attacks inside Somaliland. Eritrea is allied with Sudan and Iran in supporting Islamic radical groups.

So far this year, Somali pirates have attacked at least 80 ships, capturing about fifteen of them (many fishing boat captures go unreported, or are difficult to confirm). Since the international anti-piracy patrol has made the Gulf of Aden difficult (or even dangerous, depending on which country the warship is from) for pirates, more attacks have been made off the east coast. The pirates have the advantage here, because the 3,000 kilometers long Somali coast is far larger than the current force of two dozen foreign warships can effectively patrol. These multimillion dollar payoffs have attracted thousands of ambitious and fearless young Somalis, looking to score big, and retire.

In the past month, since the Somali TNG moved to Mogadishu, three members of parliament have been murdered. Al Shabaab death squads are believed to be responsible. So far this year, about 60,000 refugees have returned to Mogadishu, and some of them back Islamic radicals and terrorists.

At some point, when "too many" ships are captured by pirates and held for ransom, the international community will go ashore and destroy (at least for a while) the Somali pirates. There is already quite a lot of intelligence on who the pirates are, who leads them and where the leaders live and mother ships and speedboats are based. Smart bomb and ground attacks have been worked out, for planning purposes only, and estimates made for the number of "civilian" casualties. But in Somali society, there are no "civilians." Everyone gets involved in the fight. Peacekeepers in Somalia are shocked at how casually, and frequently, Somali gunmen use women and children as human shields. But military planners know that cell phone camera pictures of dead women and children, will get more attention in the media than those of blasted pirate ships and dead pirates. Nothing like a good war crime to sell newspapers.

Meanwhile, there's a gold rush atmosphere on northern Somalia's "pirate coast." More gangs are being formed, and going hunting. The gangs have an informal organization, which largely consists of not getting into each others' way. The local government of Puntland (a tribal coalition that had brought peace to this corner of the country) has been bought off and intimidated into inaction. The local Islamic Courts gunmen are not numerous, but have declared the taking of ships owned by Moslems to be bad. Plundering infidel ships is another matter, which the Islamic radicals are rather more vague on.

What it comes down to is that the piracy will continue and grow until the pirates no longer have bases. Nothing new about this. Similar piracy situations have arisen for thousands of years, and have been eliminated the same way; you go after the bases. But no one wants to step forward and do this. In the past this was less of a problem, because there was no mass media quick to find fault with any government action. But there's also the nature of the enemy. The Somalis have been a regional menace for centuries, raiding and threatening neighbors with all manner of mayhem. The Somalis are persistent and resourceful fighters. British 19th century colonial administrators learned that the best way to deal with Somali outlaws was to "shoot on sight, shoot first, shoot to kill, keep shooting." Not unexpectedly, post-colonial Somalia proved unable to govern itself. The tribal rivalries kept the pot boiling, and even the rise of a "clean government" party (the Islamic Courts), based on installing a religious dictatorship, backfired. Too many Somalis were willing to fight the Islamic radicals, who were also handicapped by their support for al Qaeda and international Islamic terrorism.

In the past (before the European colonialists showed up) a form of order was imposed by having more reasonable (and often non-Somali) powers hold the coastal cities and towns, enabling trade with the outside world. One had to accept a near constant state of war, or just the banditry, with the interior tribes. There were periods of peace, as warlords established temporary kingdoms, but was never the notion that peace was something that would last. The Somalis were constantly at war with their neighbors, usually in the form of Somalis raiding into Kenya and Ethiopia, and sometimes getting attacked in turn by "punitive raids" (to discourage raiding, for a while anyway.)

Local Arab and African governments are looking to the West (the owners of most of the ships being plundered) to deal with the problem. The West is looking to the United States to take the lead. The U.S. got burned (by the Somalis and the mass media) the last time (1993) it tried to bring peace to Somalia. What will happen now is all these nations will squabble among themselves over who will do the deed, until the piracy gets so bad that someone blinks. Egypt is particularly nervous, as major ships are starting to avoid the Gulf of Aden, and the Suez canal. This could eventually deprive Egypt of millions of dollars a day in canal transit fees. It will cost shipping companies even more to send their slower and more vulnerable (to pirates) ships around the southern tip of Africa. But what will really bring in the marines (U.S. or otherwise) will be greedy pirates attacking too many (the exact number is uncertain) ships, especially the huge tankers entering and leaving the Persian Gulf. This trade is vital to international commerce and the world economy. Put too much hurt on the big money, and the big stick comes out.

When the bombs do drop, everyone gets something. The media have their irresistible wartime headlines, Somalia has some form of peace, and a small decrease in population. Only the pirates lose. But the Somalis don't fight like the Iraqis or Afghans (who don't fight like each other either). The Somalis have shorter fuses, and come at you with more vigor and determination. They are not really difficult to defeat, but it's messy. The Somalis like making war a family affair, and will use civilians as human shields. They have embraced the use of suicide bombers, roadside bombs and all manner of modern Moslem mayhem. Short of some unprecedented national attitude adjustment, the Somalis will continue being difficult and deadly to deal with.

[Swoop]

The UN is trying to make an arms embargo in Somalia work. The UN has authorized the use of asset freezes and travel restrictions against gunrunners. This has not worked in the past, and is not working now. With the Ethiopians gone from Mogadishu, it's now up to the UN and AU (African Union) trying to maintain some form of order in the city. The UN is also under pressure to authorize a naval blockade of Somalia. This would be difficult and expensive to carry out, what with a 3,000 kilometer coastline, and lots of determined pirates. The blockade would have to be maintained (and paid for) "indefinitely", or until someone went in and imposed peace on the country. NATO has flat out refused to consider helping out with a blockade. Everyone wants something done about the pirates, but too many nations are holding back because of potentially embarrassing consequences (dead pirates or dead civilians).

April 14, 2009: In the last two days, pirates seized two cargo ships and two fishing boats off the Somali coast. Another American cargo ship, approaching Mombasa, Kenya, was attacked by pirates but, despite considerable damage from gunfire and RPGs, evaded capture. There aren't too many merchant ships with U.S. crews, because sailors from other nations will work for much less money. But U.S. law mandates that certain cargoes, like U.S. relief aid for foreign countries, be carried in ships with American crews. Thus the attacks on two U.S. crewed ships, which were carrying food and other supplies for Somali refugees in Kenya, and Somali famine victims inside Somalia.

About a thousand kilometers east of Mombasa, a French warship captured one of the pirate mother ships, and took eleven pirates prisoner.

April 13, 2009: The Transitional National Government (TNG, now run by more moderate Islamic radicals) praised the U.S. operation that killed three pirates and freed an American ship captain. The pirates are not popular with people in central and southern Somalia, because many recent attacks have gone after ships bringing in food and medical aid for drought stricken people in the south. If the pirates capture relief aid ships, they do not allow the food and other aid to be delivered, but hold it for ransom. Sometimes, pirates loot the ship's cargo and take what they want, for their own use.

In Mogadishu, a mortar shell hit the compound of the Red Crescent Society (the Moslem equivalent of the Red Cross), damaging a facility that provided artificial limbs for those with amputations (usually as a result of fighting in the area.) The mortar attack was not believed to be deliberate. Al Shabaab terrorists fire their few mortars largely at random, since the TNG controls most of the city, at least most of the time.

April 12, 2009: U.S. Navy SEAL snipers killed three pirates holding an American merchant marine captain. The fourth pirate had come aboard a nearby U.S. destroyer to negotiate and receive medical care (he had been stabbed in the hand with an ice pick when the American crew of the Alabama fought off the pirate attack four days ago). The pirates had allowed the American destroyer to tow their lifeboat to calmer waters. When it got dark, the destroyer crew gradually shortened the tow rope until the lifeboat was less than 30 meters away. This allowed three SEAL snipers, who had parachuted in earlier with sniper rifles and night scopes, to fire three shots simultaneously, after one of the pirates was seen threatening their captive with an assault rifle. A day earlier, the navy had been given permission to use force if the Alabama's captains life appeared in danger. This, in effect, was permission to kill the pirates. The SEALs sent in were from the elite SEAL Team Six, which is used for all manner of special jobs.

April 11, 2009: Four pirates, and their captive (the captain of ship Maersk Alabama, briefly captured while headed for Mombasa three days ago) have run out of fuel while trying to reach the Somali coast in one of the Alabama's lifeboats. The lifeboat is now surrounded by U.S. warships, and other warships forced pirates from bringing captured ships to the aid of the four pirates in the out-of-fuel lifeboat. The U.S. Navy and the FBI are negotiating with the four pirates to free the American captain. But the pirates want $2 million in ransom and free passage to the Somali coast. The U.S. refuses to pay ransom.

Pirates freed a 23,000 ton Polish freighter, and its 27 sailors, after payment of a $2.4 million ransom. The ship had been taken a month ago.

April 10, 2009: For the third time in a year, French commandos have attacked pirates to free captives. This time, two small boats containing French troops came at five pirates holding a yacht containing five civilians. During the brief gun battle, two pirates, and the captain of the yacht, were killed. The other three pirates were captured. Including these three, France now has fifteen Somalis being prosecuted for piracy.

[Swoop]

Piracy off Somalia is nothing new, it has been a growing problem for over a decade. What is new is the use of professional negotiators (Arab agents from the Persian Gulf) to obtain the maximum ransom, moving the captured ships to a heavily defended anchorage, and keeping the crews imprisoned ashore. The pirates also perfected their tactics.
In the past, it was different. Back in 2002, German commandos freed a cargo ship that had been held for a month. That is much more difficult to pull off today. Seven years ago, a Greek ship was being held for $600,000 ransom, but the owners would only offer $35,000. The crew eventually (after six months captivity) overwhelmed their guards and got away. That doesn't happen much anymore either. The pirates have learned.

Through the 1990s, the ships most vulnerable to capture were ocean going foreign fishing boats, and small, local, coastal cargo boats. But by the late 1990s, the local fishermen had figured out that several speed boats, each with about half a dozen gunmen, and boarding gear (ladders and grappling hooks) could overtake a large ship and scramble aboard. This trend was interrupted by September 11, 2001, and the appearance of foreign warships off the coast, looking for terrorists. Not many Islamic terrorists were found, but it did make it a lot more difficult for the pirates. The warships stayed in international waters (about 20 kilometers off the coast), but that was enough to scare the pirates away from large ships.

But gradually, the pirates realized that using larger, high seas, "mother ships" to tow several speed boats, they could go hunting for larger ships. The pirates also became aware of the international law governing piracy. The 1990s "Law of the Sea" prevented warships from taking preventive action against suspected pirates. The mother ships were largely immune from attack, and the speedboats full of armed men were not attacked unless they were pursuing and firing on a ship. Many nations interpret their own law as prohibiting their sailors from punishing pirates at all. That, and the use of professional negotiators to get larger and larger ransoms, attracted more gangs to the piracy effort. There was high potential payoff, and low risks.

The Somali pirates didn't suddenly appear over the last few years, they evolved over more than a decade of trial and error. A major assist with this is that the international anti-piracy patrol off Somalia is obsessed with avoiding violence, or punishment. The warships rarely fire on pirates, even when they catch the pirates in the act. When pirates are captured, they are usually released. When four armed pirates, and an American ship captain, were cornered recently, the president of the United States would not allow force to be used, until after first letting negotiations proceed for three days. Finally, on the fourth day, a local commander put his career on the line, and ordered the SEAL snipers to kill the recalcitrant pirates, and end the standoff. But that was the exception.

The pirates deliberately avoid hurting the crews. There have been a few casualties while taking ships (all that machine-gun, RPG and rifle fire is bound to hit someone from time to time), but not enough to tag the Somalis as "blood thirsty" pirates. What the pirates fear the most is more violence by the anti-piracy forces. The French have sent in commandos three times against pirates who attacked French ships. Over a dozen pirates have died. U.S. Navy SEAL commandos recently killed three pirates. The Somalis have vowed vengeance against France and America, but it is not in their interest to escalate the violence. The rest of the world has a lot more firepower, and European armies have conquered Somalia before. Many Somalis wish the European colonial government would return, but that won't happen. And no one wants a lot of dead bodies to complicate the piracy situation. The insurance companies are willing to raise rates and pay the ransoms. As long as less than one percent of ship traffic is taken for ransom, international trade is not harmed. No one will admit it, but this is a tolerable situation, despite more aggressive press releases from government officials.

[awayatc]

anybody keen to do the same here?

Seems to be some serious coin involved....

a few little runabouts on Tardme....

[Korumba]

A picture says a thousand words....

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/03/pirates_of_somalia.html

[awayatc]

Not a single eypatch!
No parrot....
Not one wooden leg....

Call themselves Pirates...

[Squid]

:lol: This is why the brits had so much trouble huh. Jamal and his ride...

[Swoop]

May 7, 2009: The Western "catch and release" tactics against the Somali pirates are failing. The pirates are encouraged by the fact that the foreign warships will not shoot. At most, pirates will usually be disarmed then released to take their speedboats back to shore. There, the pirates can obtain new weapons, and be back on the hunt the next day. While the "catch and release" methods take some pirates out of circulation, and prosecute a minority of them (the French, Americans and a few other catch and prosecute, or even kill, but that is considered barbarous and excessive by many Western nations), the pirates have learned to adapt. Thus, while the naval patrols reduced the pirate success rate early on (only 8 percent of pirate attacks succeeded in January 2009, versus 40 percent for all of 2008), the 2009 success rate has steadily increased. It averages 23 percent so far this year, but was running at 2008 rates in April. Worse, the pirates are now operating far (up to 1,500 kilometers) off the east coast, as well as in the Gulf of Aden, and are attacking at nearly double the rate of last year (when 115 ships were attacked). In other words, the pirates are winning. The shipping companies are willing to tolerate the higher level of captures, because they simply pay the higher insurance rates, plus some danger pay to some of the crews, and keep issuing press releases deploring the situation. The fact of the matter is that, even if twice as many ships are captured as last year, this still means that over 99 percent of the ships moving through the area are not bothered. As long as the pirates aren't killing people, the shipping companies can tolerate the inconvenience.
Although France and the U.S. have used their commandos against the pirates, Germany tried to, but withdrew at the last minute because the risk of people getting hurt was considered too high. It's becoming fashionable in the West to view the pirates as displaced (by rapacious foreign fishing fleets) fishermen driven to piracy in order to feed their starving families. This is a fantasy, but a popular one (with a small grain of truth, just enough to keep it going.)

The Somali government (a coalition of more moderate factions, and once called the Transitional National Government, or TNG), is now run by more moderate Islamic radicals, and is asking the UN to get Eritrea and Iran to stop providing more radical groups (like al Shabaab) with money and weapons. Eritrea got involved because Ethiopia is involved (because Ogaden, a province of Ethiopia, is full of rebellious ethnic Somalis, and raiders from Somalia operate inside Ethiopia if they can get away with it.)

May 6, 2009: A Burundian peacekeeper was killed in Mogadishu. There are several hundred Islamic radical, al Shabaab, gunmen in the city, trying to drive the government forces out. They are not having much success. Similar operations are taking place throughout central Somalia. Al Shabaab is outnumbered, but are determined and allied with some other Islamic terrorist groups. This has driven another 25,000 civilians across the border into Kenyan refugee camps. Even more civilians have fled to other parts of Somalia. While most Somalis would like some kind of peace, all have adapted to anarchy.

May 3, 2009: Pirates agreed to free a ship full of food and goods owned by Somali merchants. The pirates were paid a small fee for their trouble, but not the usual multi-million dollar ransom.

[Deano]

SPECIAL CRUISE 2009 OFFER FOR ADVENTUROUS TRAVELERS.

I found a Somali cruise package that departs from Sawakin (in the Sudan ) and docks at Bagamoya (in Tanzania ).

The cost is a bit high @ $800 per person double occupancy but I didn't find that offensive. What I found encouraging and enlightened is that the cruise is encouraging people to bring their 'High powered weapons' along on the cruise.

If you don't have weapons you can rent them right there on the boat. They claim to have a master blacksmith on board and will have reloading parties every afternoon.

The cruise lasts from 4-8 days and nights and costs a maximum of $3200 per person double occupancy (4 days). All the boat does is sail up and down the coast of Somalia waiting to get hijacked by pirates.

Here are some of the costs and claims associated with the package:

$800.00 US/per day double occupancy (4 day max billing)

M-16 full auto rental $25.00/day - ammo at 100 rounds of 5.56 armour piercing ammo at $15.95

Ak-47 rifle @ No charge - ammo at 100 rounds of 7.62 com block ball ammo at
$14.95

Barrett M-107 .50 cal sniper rifle rental $55.00/day - ammo at 25 rounds 50 cal armour piercing at $9.95

Crew members can double as spotters for 30.00 per hour (spotting scope included).


Far Out ---- they even offer RPG's at 75 bucks and 200 dollars for 3 standard loads


"Everyone gets use of free complimentary night vision equipment and coffee and snacks on the top deck from 7pm-6am."


Meals are not included but seem reasonable.


Most cruises offer a mini-bar.


These gung ho entrepreneurs offer......... get this .....


"MOUNTED MINIGUN AVAILABLE @ $450.00 per 30 seconds of sustained fire"


Sign my arse up!


They advertise group rates and corporate discounts...... and even claim "FUN FOR THE WHOLE FAMILY"


They even offer a partial money back guarantee if not satisfied.


Here's some text from the ad:


"We guarantee that you will experience at least two hijacking attempts by pirates or we will refund half your money back including gun rental charges and any unused ammo ( mini gun charges not included)..


How can we guarantee you will experience a hijacking?


We operate at 5 knots within 12 miles of the coast of Somalia. If an attempted Hijacking does not occur we will turn the boat around and cruise by at 4 knots.


We will repeat this for up to 8 days making three passes a day along the entire length of Somalia.


At night the boat is fully lit and bottle rockets are shot off at intervals and loud disco music beamed shore side to attract attention. Cabin space is limited so respond quickly. Reserve your package before Feb 29 and get 100 rounds of free tracer ammo in the calibre of your choice."


As if all that isn't enough to whet your appetite, there were a few
testimonials:


"I got three confirmed kills on my last trip. I'LL never hunt big game in Africa again. I felt like the Komandant in Schindlers list!"----

Lars , Hamburg Germany


"Six attacks in 4 days was more than I expected. I bagged three pirates and my 12yr old son sank two rowboats with the minigun. PIRATES 0 -PASSENGERS-32! Well worth the trip. Just make sure your spotter speaks English"

Ned, Salt Lake city , Utah USA


I haven't had this much fun since flying choppers in NAM . Don't worry about getting shot by pirates as they never even got close to the ship with those weapons they use and their shitty aim--reminds me of a drunken 'juicer' door gunner we picked up from the motor pool back in Nam" –

"chopper' Dan ----Toledo USA.


"Like ducks in a barrel. They turned the ship around and we saw them bleed and cry in the water like little girls. Saw one wounded pirate eaten by sharks--what a laugh riot!! This is a must do.---

Zeke-Minnahaw Springs Kentucky USA

[awayatc]

some people are so sick that calling a doctor seems to be a waste of time.....

am contemplating turning Somalian for a while.....just for a laugh.....

[pete376403]

Those pirate must be pretty brave...































to contemplate using a weapon like this

[Sniper]

Those pirate must be pretty brave...


to contemplate using a weapon like this

Haha, very good find. Mind you, Im sure thats a "new" model in any African country.

[Swoop]

Those pirate must be pretty brave...
to contemplate using a weapon like this
Or like this...

"Mother-ship" and "assault craft". Plenty of drums of fuel aboard though.

[thehollowmen]

Oh hai everybody
just dropping this link for you

http://www.somalicruises.com/

Somebody has a sense of humour

[The Stranger]

So just wondering. What is an RPG going to do an oil tanker?

[awayatc]

If is would be on an American movie then it would go Hiroshimaha high.....
In the real world however not everything blows up.

Rocket propeled granades are meant to be armour piercing, and only have a very small explosive charge....
A hit in the right spot may see things go KABOOM, much more spectecular then an oiltanker (wil burn) would be a LPG tanker going off......

[Swoop]

The success of the Somali pirates (who have received over $50 million in ransoms so far) has encouraged pirates, and potential pirates, worldwide. The publicity given to the tactics of the Somali pirates has educated larceny minded boat owners worldwide. These guys know that they aren't going to score a multimillion dollar ransom (you need a place to stow the boat during the negotiations, and only the Somalis have that), but now they know there are splendid robbery prospects with these large ships. Slip aboard in the wee hours, mug the crew, grab everything portable and clean out the safe. In a poor country in West Africa or Southeast Asia, the few thousand bucks you get from a robbery like this is a life changer. And the word is getting around that pulling off stuff like this is easier than you think.
In response to the growing piracy threat, maritime security companies are doing a booming business. One Israeli firm, Mano International Security, has specialized in this kind of work for over three decades. But there is competition, usually divisions of larger firms, and business has never been better. The Israeli firm has long supplied plain clothes security operatives for cruise ships. These men, and women, keep an eye on security matters in general, but they have always been trained to deal with pirates, and terrorists. Other firms are trying to get into this corner of the industry, but the Israelis have set a high standard.

There is plenty of new business from the non-cruise ship segment (over 99 percent of the big ships out there). Most of this consists of training officers and senior crew how to deal with pirates. A lot of this is common sense (like posting lookouts 24/7 when in dangerous waters) and the need to teach crewmembers anti-piracy techniques, and carry out regular drills. The lookouts should be equipped with high end optics, which are useful at sea, even when no pirates are about. Ships that can afford it should upgrade their surface radars to a model that is better at detecting small boats.

There are a lot of simple techniques for fighting off pirates. If your lookouts fail to spot the pirates, and they start to board, having stuff ready to toss overboard at the boarding pirates, often works. Firing a maritime flare gun right at the pirate boat will do lots of damage, because these industrial strength flares use magnesium, which not only burns very bright, but also very, very hot. As in hot enough to burn a hole through the bottom of the pirate boat. You cannot extinguish magnesium with water.

Ships are not supposed to carry guns (many ports forbid armed ships to enter), but some ships have taken to putting a few pistols in the ships safe, and keeping quiet about it. Other ships have installed, or the crews have improvised, a water cannon (basically a very high powered fire hose, with a longer nozzle to provide longer range and a more precise stream of water). A more expensive solution (several thousand dollars) is a sonic cannon (that directs a beam of very loud sound at someone hundreds of meters away), which works in most cases.

But the best defense remains speed. Not only can most large ships outrun speedboats on the high seas (where waves slow down small boats more than huge ones), but the big ship can provide even larger waves with its wake, and that can be enhanced by zig-zagging a bit. Security experts also advise captains to deviate from their official course, because the pirates now have informants in various shipping, insurance and maritime affairs organizations, where they obtain the official course for a ship. Pirates try to use this to set up a night time ambush at sea. But deviating a bit on your official course, the pirates will be left waiting.

Generally, the pirates only get lucky when a merchant ship crew gets sloppy.

[Swoop]

Nice to see that all the problems have gone away...:bye:

June 17, 2009: Piracy continues to thrive in Puntland up north. Although 111 pirates are awaiting trial in Kenya, many more have been caught and released by warships, because the new "Law of the Sea" does not deal with pirates (which were believed to be a thing of the past), and each nation has its warships deal with pirates differently. Most just let them go. Thus the anti-piracy patrol off northern Somalia is seen as a nuisance by the pirates, not a threat. In the first half of this year, pirates took 30 ships, compared to 40 for all last year. But the pirates fail in nearly twice as many attacks (because of the increased naval patrols), compared to last year. Some pirates are going much farther from shore to find targets. The anti-piracy patrol has, in effect, increased the cost of capturing a ship, but not made piracy unprofitable. Somewhat less profitable, but still very profitable. The pirates are always coming up with new ways to deal with the naval patrols. The latest trick is to use people smuggling to provide cover. Smuggling Africans to Yemen has remained a big business in northern Somalia, and now the pirates are using some of these refugees as human shields, or just camouflage.
Meanwhile, further south, the Islamic radical groups are implementing, or at least announcing, their goals. Video, either in movie theaters or via DVDs, is now forbidden. Televisions are only to be used to watch approved news and religious shows. Also banned are smart phones (which can store and play video or music). Foreign aid organizations have been ordered to halt education programs, which the Islamic radical groups will replace with religious based ones.

In addition to conquering Ethiopia's Ogaden province (whose population is mostly ethnic Somali), the Islamic radicals also plan to cut access, for infidels (non-Moslems) to the Red Sea and Persian Gulf. This would mean replacing the pirates now up there, with seagoing terrorists. Then there are new threats to "invade" Kenya if Kenyan troops are not pulled back from the border. The Islamic radicals want free access to the Somali refugee camps, and for smuggling, and the increased Kenyan army presence along the border is making that difficult. The Kenyans cannot ignore the invasion threat. Somalis have been raiding across the border for centuries, and sometimes the raids were large enough to qualify as an invasion.

Ethiopia has been battling Somali raiders for centuries, and have increased their cross border military patrols, as the Somali Islamic radicals talk more of taking Ogaden. The Ethiopians know how the Somalis organize their raids (or invasions, which is what large raids are). The Somalis come looking for loot, and to kill the few non-Somalis in the area. If the Ethiopian troops do not counter-attack (which they almost always do), Ogaden becomes part of Somalia, for a while, anyway. The Ethiopian patrols into Somalia are seeking out preparations for these raids, and such information is always easy to discover if your troops can enter Somali towns and villages along the border. Once the Ethiopians know where the raiders will assemble along the border, they can disrupt yet another raid before it gets going.

The Ethiopians are not the only ones who cross the border. American Special Forces operators have people in the country collecting information, and an increasing number of known al Qaeda members are being detected. Some of these guys were earlier spotted in places like Syria, Iraq and Pakistan. Why go to a chaotic place like Somalia? Apparently because it's the least worst choice for al Qaeda operatives these days.

The Transitional Government, with the help of foreign money, has recruited the first 500 men for the new coast guard. Training will take up the rest of the year, in and around Mogadishu. If the Somalis can hold their new navy together until then, armed boats will be provided, and patrols will commence. It's a long shot that this effort will succeed. There are so many obstacles. Corruption could see most of the money (for pay and supplies) disappear. If the armed boats get to sea, the sailors could prove unable to defeat the pirates, or might turn to piracy themselves. But if it all works, this would be the end of the Somali pirates. For Somalis, the new navy would also mean the end of foreign fishing trawlers (really big fishing ships) that have been illegally taking most of the fish available off the coast. This has been going on since the government disappeared in 1991 (during a tribal rebellion that has still not ended, or installed a new government).

Although it's long been known that food aid sent to Somalia is subject to theft (by bandits or warlords), the UN has now discovered (via TV reports and interviews with culprits) that Somali UN employees are openly selling food, by the truckload, to Somali merchants, and that lots of this food, marked "not for resale" is available in markets throughout southern Somalia. This is done by allowing the merchants to establish fictional refugee camps, which are then sent a portion of the food aid each month. The UN moves 45,000 tons of food aid into southern Somalia (from Kenya) each month. There are now naval patrols off the Kenyan coast to protect the ships carrying the food aid (mostly from the U.S.) from pirates. But the truckers have to be paid extra to cover the cost of bribes demanded by warlord roadblocks encountered between the Kenyan border and the refugee camps. Over three million Somalis depend on this free food to survive. The corruption within the UN Somali staff is partly the result of attacks on UN staff inside Somalia. Because of this, most non-Somali UN staff have been pulled out of the country. Somali UN staff that do not go along with the food sales, are threatened with kidnapping or murder by the warlords and bandits. But for some of these officials, just the prospect of making more money was all the incentive needed.

The fighting continues in Mogadishu, but at a decreased level. The Islamic radical militias, like al Shabaab, have been defeated, for the moment. Al Shabaab is recruiting and arming more children (young teenagers), and planning more attacks. In the last five weeks, over 120,000 civilians have fled Mogadishu, to avoid the trigger happy gunmen fighting for control of city neighborhoods. Since early May, fighting in Mogadishu has left over a thousand people dead or wounded.

June 12, 2009: For the first time, Somali pirates seized a cargo ship off (about 100 kilometers) the coast of Oman. The German owned ship was taken back to Puntland, where it will be held for ransom.

[Swoop]

The Somali pirates who seized a Spanish tuna boat last week, are demanding that two of their men, who were captured by a Spanish warship (while going, via speedboat, from the captured tuna boat to shore), be released before negotiations can begin for the captured tuna boat. The Spanish are refusing to go along with that, and are threatening to use commandos to rescue the tuna boat and its 36 man crew. The Somalis, and their supporters, claim that the fishing boats are illegally plundering Somali fishing grounds. But the tuna boats are way off the coast, in international waters. In fact, the pirates are now, according to Interpol, run by criminal gangs. Most of the ransom money goes to gang leaders and middlemen (the negotiators and, foreign specialists and those who deliver the cash). The average pirate, who took the ship, walks away with about $10,000. Many other pirates receive a monthly salary, to keep them going in case they get lucky. The gangs have bought better equipment (GPS, satellite phones, night vision devices, higher quality weapons and, speedboats, outboard engines, boarding gear) for the pirates, but the Somalis involved are mainly cheap labor. Some of the key people in the gangs are foreigners from the large criminal gangs (often run by Indians or Pakistanis, as well as local Arabs) based in the Persian Gulf. The anti-piracy patrol of foreign warships have foiled an average of ten attacks (on merchant ships) a month so far this year. Fewer ships are being taken, but the pirates are still a big threat. Ship owners end up paying an average of seven million dollars for each ship taken. The ransom is less than a third of the cost, the rest goes to lawyers, negotiators, payments to crews and their families and so on.

Al Shabaab is increasingly applying Sharia law in areas they control. This is most visible in the public floggings, executions and amputations of hands and feet of thieves. Many Somalis appreciate this attempt to restore order, but Somalis on the receiving end belong to large families, which now seek revenge from the Islamic radical groups. This is a major reason why it is so difficult to maintain order in Somalia. Al Shabaab is increasingly running into factionalism and violence among their followers. Running any organization in Somalia is like herding cats; big, nasty cats armed with automatic weapons.

The Transitional Government has been recruiting policemen and soldiers for the new security forces (with cash for equipment and salaries provided by foreign aid) in northern Kenya, among the many ethnic Somalis (including refugees) living there. Al Shabaab has threatened violent retribution against Kenya unless the recruiting stops. Kenya has refused to comply, and nearly 200 men have been recruited so far. Foreign trainers are moving recruits to camps in Djibouti, where months of instruction will, it is hope, produce disciplined and loyal police and soldiers. Past attempts at this had failed, as the trainees eventually turned into bandits or gunmen for warlords.

13 October, 2009: Twice in the last few days, French marines fired on speedboats full of Somali pirates, who were threatening a French tuna boat some thousand kilometers east of the Somali coast. Some 60 of these marines are stationed on ten French tuna boats. Dozens of large European tuna fishing ships are operating in the area, and at least one Somali pirate mother ship is in the area as well.

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Now venturing far and wide!
Not that the public knows anything about this though...

29 October, 2009: The Transitional Government admitted that it had recruited 1,500 ethnic Somalis in northeastern Kenya (where there are several hundred thousand Kenyans who are ethnic Somalis and 300,000 Somali refugees) and training them to be Somali government police. This is a major effort by the UN to produce a reliable police force to counteract the al Shabaab gunmen. It's been difficult getting enough men to join up, as al Shabaab has a fearsome reputation. So teenagers are being told to lie about their age, and Somalis in prison being recruited as well.
Several Reaper UAVs have begun flying maritime patrols from the Seychelles islands (which are 1,500 kilometers east of Somalia). The intense international naval patrol in the Gulf of Aden has made it very difficult to hijack ships there, so the pirates have taken stolen fishing ships (acting as mother ships towing or carrying two or more speedboats) and gone east to the Seychelles. There, the pirates have seized several ships. The anti-piracy patrol has shifted resources to the Seychelles, but needs aerial reconnaissance to find the mother ships.

China refused commando assistance from the U.S., Britain and France after a Chinese cargo ship was seized last week, off the Seychelles islands. This, despite the Chinese government saying they would promptly do something about rescuing the Chinese crew and their ship. But the Chinese were unable to intercept the cargo ship before it got from the Seychelles to Somalia. Now China is hoping to enlist the help of tribal elders in the area where the Chinese ship is being held.

Somali pirates are threatening to kill the crew of the cargo ship Ariana, held for five months and running out of fuel. The owner has refused to pay the ransom the pirates are demanding, so the pirates are threatening violence.

The Transitional Government says it will eliminate piracy within two years. Few people believe it. Puntland, however, has been trying and convicting pirates handed over to them by the anti-piracy patrol (along with cash to pay expenses and encourage prosecution.) But Puntland is not expected to keep convicted pirates in jail for long.

There is fighting daily in Mogadishu, as al Shabaab tries to intimidate AU peacekeepers into backing off and ceasing providing security for the Transitional Government. So far, the terrorists have been unsuccessful, but there are a dozen or more casualties each day.

The Arab League has tried, and failed, to broker peace talks between al Shabaab and the Transitional Government. The Arab League has not had much success in negotiating with Islamic terror groups.

28 October, 2009: A European warship operating off the Seychelles, captured seven of the ten pirates who had recently hijacked a British sailboat and its crew of two. The three remaining pirates are on the sailboat, taking it to a village on the Somali coast. All ten pirates had spotted a French fishing ship, and seven of the pirates took off in their speedboat to try and capture the French vessel. But there were armed security guards on the French ship, who fired on the pirates. Then, a nearby warship came by and captured the seven pirates.

27 October, 2009: Al Shabaab shut down another foreign aid group (ASEP), accusing the organization of spying on the Islamic terrorists. Previously, al Shabaab had shut down CARE, MSF and MercyCorps. Other aid groups can make up for some of the lost aid, especially food. Most of the food is supplied by the United States, and it feeds the terrorists as well as starving civilians. The terrorists and bandits also steal a lot of the food, and sell it in local markets.

24 October, 2009: Al Shabaab is now holding public executions of suspected spies. Two young men were killed today, after being held and tortured for three months. Al Shabaab is concerned about the increasing threat of attacks by American special operations forces based in nearby Djibouti. The Americans seem to be well informed about who is who and where they are.

A British yacht (a sailboat, actually) left the Seychelles on the 22nd, carrying a British couple (in their 50s). Now Somali pirates claim to have seized the boat and are demanding ransom. That may be a problem, as the couple are not rich, and the sailboat is their main asset.

23October, 2009: Al Shabaab continued to fire mortar shells at the presidential palace (guarded by AU peacekeepers). Annoyed at the continued mortar attacks, the AU troops fired about three dozen rockets at the mortars (which set up in the sprawling Bakara market, hiding among civilians). The rocket attack killed over 20 people, and enraged al Shabaab, which thought they were immune from attack because they used human shields. Al Shabaab is unaccustomed to this kind of retribution. So al Shabaab told Uganda and Burundi (who supply the peacekeepers in Somalia) that there would be Islamic terror attacks on the capital cities of Uganda and Burundi. Uganda taunted al Shabaab right back, promising them a rough time if they even attempted to make any attacks inside Uganda.

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Just to let you know that this has not gone away. Shipping cost increases should have been obvious.

27 April, 2011: Piracy is a booming business in northern Somalia, and no one has a workable plan to deal with it. For the first three months of this year, there were 97 attacks on ships by Somali pirates. In the first three months of 2010, there were only 35 attacks. The pirates are going farther out to sea to seek more lucrative targets. This year, for example, 38 percent of the attacks have been on oil tankers (which yield the biggest ransoms). Many of these ships are now carrying armed guards or hiring armed ships as escorts. In response, the pirates are now operating as far east as the west Indian coast, stealing ocean going fishing ships and small freighters to use as mother ships (for the speedboats that carry out the actual attacks). Most ships treat the pirates as a small threat. That's because over 30,000 ships pass through the pirate infested waters each year. At current rates, that means each merchant ship passing through the area has a 1.3 percent chance of being attacked (and less than half as much risk of being captured). But the additional security measures are costing shipping companies over $7 billion a year, and less than five percent of this is for ransoms. The money is attracting more and more pirates, and the cost to shipping companies is expected to double in the next few years. The only known solution for this sort of thing is to invade, and take control of the coast. But so far, the sea-going nations are not willing to pay the price, in lives and money, for that kind of solution.
Efforts to train and arm a coast guard in Puntland and Somaliland have run into a lot of resistance from the UN, and some member nations. The problem is the corruption. The pirate gangs already have many Puntland officials on the payroll, and would bribe any anti-piracy force as well. There's also a real fear that a Puntland Coast Guard might turn into pirates. That sort of thing has happened before. Puntland has eagerly accepted millions of dollars in foreign aid, meant to be used to deal with piracy. But the pirates are still there, well armed and flush with cash. Given a choice between a bloody fight, and some more payoffs, Puntland politicians seem to be going for the cash.
Starvation deaths are becoming more common in drought-ridden central and southern Somalia. Al Shabaab controls much of this area, and has banned most foreign aid efforts (as not "coming from God”.). The lack of food aid is leading to growing starvation. Aid groups are willing to pay al Shabaab, but the Islamic radicals keep asking for more money and goods. Al Shabaab has tried to ban the aid groups entirely, but that created unrest even among some of their armed followers, whose families were often dependent on foreign food aid, and extra cash. In effect, the aid groups are major suppliers of food and cash to al Shabaab, and justify it because it saves lives.
24 April, 2011: The TNG (Transitional National Government) delayed UN mandated parliamentary elections until next year. These elections were supposed to be held by August, but the TNG says that al Shabaab and other disruptive groups have to be shut down first. The TNG is seen as very corrupt, and more interested in stealing foreign aid than in bringing good government to Somalia.
22 April, 2011: Kenyan police arrested three men at the Somali border, after finding bomb making material in their vehicle. On Somalia's Ethiopian border, several hundred al Shabaab gunmen suddenly rolled into the town of Dhusamareb, which had been taken from al Shabaab two years ago. The locals insist they will take back the town soon.
21 April, 2011: South Korean commandoes boarded a container ship that had been taken by pirates, and found the pirates had fled. That's because the crew had gone to a safe room and shut down the engines. In such situations, the pirates assume that the crew has called for help from a warship, which will probably arrive shortly and kill or arrest any pirates they find on board.
Al Shabaab seized nine foreign medical specialists running a clinic 20 kilometers south of Mogadishu. An al Shabaab court sentenced the doctors and nurses to 10-15 days in jail. This was apparently another ploy to extort more cash or other goods from foreigners.
20 April, 2011: An armed helicopter, apparently from a warship beyond the horizon, was seen firing on and destroying a pirate mother ship off the coast of Puntland. The international anti-piracy patrol has become more aggressive in seeking out and destroying these mother ships. Pirates are usually given an opportunity to surrender, and they usually do, because they know they will be deposited on the Somali coast (without weapons, but at least alive).
19 April, 2011: India revealed that it had sent a frigate to the Somali coast, to get close to a ship holding seven Indian sailors who had been ransomed, but were still being held to try and force India to release 120 Somali pirates that had been captured off the Indian coast.
16 April, 2011: Fighting in Mogadishu has, over the last two days, caused nearly a hundred casualties. Many were the result of peacekeepers and al Shabaab firing artillery or mortars at each other.
In the Puntland town of Galkayo, gunmen went into two pro-al Shabaab mosques and opened fire. Six people died and dozens were wounded. This appears to have been retaliation for the use of a car bomb, earlier in the day, to kill a moderate (Sufi) Islamic leader and government official. The Puntland government sent more police to the town, to try and halt the growing violence between Islamic radicals and moderates.
15 April, 2011: Pirates released a tanker, after the ransom was paid. But seven of the eight Indians on the 15 man crew were not released. The pirates are demanding that India release 120 pirates held in India, if they want these seven Indian sailors freed. This has outraged the shipping companies, who expect the pirates to keep their promises to free ships and sailors once the ransom has been paid.

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Where's the discovery channel, this'd make great Reality TV viewing :facepalm: