Don't EVER get sick

[Paul in NZ]

Warning - there is some serious VENTING here - and most of you know I love my wife more than life itself so girdle up and read on....


The wonderful Mr Zevon wrote

Don't let us get sick
Don't let us get old
Don't let us get stupid, all right?
Just make us be brave
And make us play nice
And let us be together tonight


Well - Vicki got sick and frankly, if it gets worse before 9am shes fucked!

Some of you know I'm a steady user of our health system (type 1 diabetic, recent cancer survivor etc etc) and I'm afraid anyone who has had regular contact with the public health system in Wellington will probably agree, unless its REALLY serious, your fucked!

Fortunately I work hard and can have insurance (ho ho, imagine what MY premiums are like)

But that does NOT help you at 9:20 on a monday night does it? Now living in Kapiti does have its good side but a crap afterhours medical service post 9:45 is just something you expect so - you tend to be a little self reliant...

Now lets paint in the background. We should have stayed for the classic club dinner on saturday but Vicki was feeling 'squiffy' so we headed home and she brightened up a bit.

Sundays was average but the weather ended up so nice and the famly called in for my sunday bean surprise and then we sat in the garden with the tuis and she felt 'better'...

Vicki was up with me at 5:45 and headed for work feeling better but under the weather... She got home early to 'rest' (rather unlike her)

I got home at 7pm and could see she was not well... Oh well, tuesdays her day off...

By 9pm shes in trouble so I start asking lots of medical questions - feeling sick, pain in the guts, dull ache moving to sharp blinding pain lower right side - hmm - you don't need to be a doctor to figure that out...

The medical centre has called last orders and reckons the best thing is to go straight to wellington hospital... So we do...

3 hours later we come home having discharged ourselves so we can die in comfort or at least get some fucking pain relief (told you we are prepared).

Um - I had to park the car (it was pissing down) so I dropped Vicki right at the door, propped her up, parked the car, she had collapsed inside and they had 2 staff taking details etc when I ran in...... After that - nothing. Not ONE person in that waiting room was seen in the 2 hours we waited. Not ONE! They told us an hour, they told the last person (a fucking loonie) 3 and there were still 3 people in front of us - there were children FFS... YES there were drunks crazies and dumb fat bastards as well but FFS.... There were at LEAST 4 kids in obvious distress apart from my wife.... (who would never take an appointment in front of a child)

Eventually, sick of being oggled by web surfing receptionists we discharged ourselves - the nurse said - hows her pain? (guess she had a glimmer of humanity left) I said, worse, thats why we are going home, she offered paracetamol, I said I had some codine in the car and the nurse said 'I'm very sorry sir' and I looked at her 100kg body and thought 'no your fucking not' .... You are just happy we are gone and your numbers look better...

PLEASE don't tell me the staff are great and it's the system that sucks - the staff ARE the system and frankly my beautiful lady could have died there and they wouldn't have blinked!

Still - I choked it back and did what Vicki wanted. Drove home in the storm and she is sleeping now - and I will stay up all night watching over her. If it gets really bad we will call an ambulance.... A FREE ambulance (that I donated a fucking shit load to when I needed them) and I'll hijack the fucking thing to take us ANYWHERE but wellington. Tomorrow we will go see our doc, get a referal and get some real treatment.

Look - I feel sorry for the accident and emergency folks - they have to deal with some real shitheads, half the people there were just in it for some free doctor shit but my wife fucking collapsed in front of them and all they gave her was a fucking clipboard - SORRY SIR??? Get fucked! Some cunts gunna fry for this - I'm seriously PISSED!!!

And people wonder why I have anger issues....

OUT

[SARGE]

Warning - there is some serious VENTING here - and most of you know I love my wife more than life itself so girdle up and read on....
**snip**
And people wonder why I have anger issues....

OUT

my inlaws have private insurance also..my mother in law needed a hip replacement recently and she was told she was looking at a long wait in a public hospital, so the went to the new Southern Cross hospital in Taurunga where she got extraordinary care.. even i was impressed at the attention she received... her doc even took a few minutes out of moving house on a Sunday to come see her..

the public health system in nz is fairly sad, agreed..

in the states..soon as you hit the door.. first question they ask is " do you have insurance?"

if the answer is yes.. you get treated like royalty..best docs.. the machine that goes *DING* etc.. insured people with a splinter queue jumping more serious injuries (see below)

if its no..(most of the people i know because its so expensive).. the only obligation the hospital has is to stabilize your condition.. they have the right to refuse treatment for minor injuries/ illnesses if you are not covered

i've seen Auckland Hospital used as a drunk tank.. taking up beds in the ER while people wait.. maybe the DHB's need a different Triage routine

[Number One]

Oh Paul I hope your lady is feeling a bit better by now. Wellington A&E sucks the big fat kumara. I arrived one day at 10am and didn't get seen until 3:30pm...and the whole time there was this jumped up little miss sitting in the waiting room to see a doctor because she had a sore throat!!! :angry: Sore my arse! She spent the whole time gas bagging on her fricken cell phone. It was all I could do to not tell her to shut the fuck up as it wouldn't be doing her 'sore throat' any good and I was soooo tempted to ram the fucking phone down her snotty little neck - freeloaders

I hope you have better luck today :sunny:

[Edbear]

How is she now? I am very sorry to hear of your situation. Take it further! We have a new Minister of Health and the News media would love to hear of it!

It is a sad reflection on the staffing situation and the pressure the hospitals are under on weekends. Statistics are fine, but they need to understand that people suffer and die in situations like this. I've been there and survived more by good luck than anything else!

PLease tell us she's okay!

[Paul in NZ]

Crap night but waaay more comfy than those poxy seats at A & E. Pain managed easily with a couple of codines.

Folks at work are helping cover for some important stuff today - seems you can rely on everyone except your medical team (edit - GP is GREAT).

Will hit the docs at 8am and go for a direct admission or hopefully I'll just call a specialist and see if we can get into a real hospital. A & E is a pathetic joke, more a holding tank for the mentally ill and substance abusers - god help us all when we retire and can't afford insurance.

I'm genuinely shocked... Those adds re civil defence? Ha - baby you are on your own even before disaster strikes...

[Cajun]

That sucks Paul

Hope ever thing pans out today.

[henry]

Call an Ambulance. You'll go straight in. If you well enough to get yourself there then your well enough to sit around a bit.

[BOGAR]

Very sorry to hear all that and I also hope your lady is doing well. I hate to think that if it is this bad now; if we ever get an epidemic then we really are "up the creek". My sister is an A&E nurse (BUT not in wellington) and she usually tells me the best times to go and when not to. The stories she tells me sometimes is amazing, yes there are a lot of freeloaders with plenty of time on their hands making the whole system come to a standstill. And then there are the drunks…….
Fingers crossed for you mate.

[davereid]

Sorry to hear it Paul, I sincerely hope things are going to get better for you.

This mornings paper ( pg.2 of DOM POST) has a story that the new Minister Tony Ryall will be targeting hospital emergency room waiting times.

He said that according to research "as many people die as a result of hospital overcrowding and delays in treatment as in road crashes"

I personally am not holding my breath, I think the problem won't go away until the entire system is changed.

We fund health boards by giving them a stack of money, and saying "fix as many people as you can".

Then we are surprised when they pay themselves handsomely but don't actually deliver much care.

Imagine trying the same trick at your local garage - heres $1000,000 ; fix as many cars as you can, come back and beg if you run out of money.

The alternative is to give health providers a acceptable schedule of charges, and they get to invoice the health department AFTER they have provided your treatment.

And guess what - no work no money. The health boards will suddenly have to treat people, instead of guarding the money stash like bull dogs.

[JMemonic]

I am sorry you have had such a bad time but there are factors to consider, and no I am not trying to defend the hospitals system, globally there is a shortage of qualified nurses so staffing numbers are lower than desired in any hospital, this does not make the news as often as the global shortage of doctors, there is just not the staff so they have a triage system, arrival in an ambulance does not guarantee you will get attended first, being a child likewise, even going to a 24 hour doctors and getting referred to the emergency department does not, there just aren't the staff.

You think you get frustrated spare a thought for those who work in those professions, they do give a dam but their hands are tied by the systems in place, set up by the mangers to the health ministry's standards, I know its hard when you are in pain, or worse its your loved one's in pain but the folks behind the desk and the staff for the most part genuinely care.

You don't say how many ambulances arrived, or for that matter what status of gridlock the hospital was in, there are a load of factors that go into it, and this is not just Wellington hospital, all emergency departments have this problem, who in their right mind would want to do that job, abusive drunks, p addicts, mva victims etc to deal with everyday and sod all thanks from the media, government and public of this country. This is the attitude that make medical professionals give up and drive taxi's.

[vifferman]

Sorry to hear of your woes, Paul. I hope things work out for the best for you and Vicki.
Personally, I've found public healthcare a mixed bag. My father-in-law (now deceased) had very good care in the hospitals, probably as good as in Australia and Holland, but my mother had a real shit time of it. Despite the Gummint spending a mint on employing lots of extra bureaucrats in the health system (supposedly 2.5 bureaucrats for every patient), she would've died were it not for my sister recording everything that happened to her, all the treatment received, drugs administered, etc etc. She had major surgery, was discharged too soon, got a serious infection, and ended up spending a few DAYS in A&E because they couldn't find a bed for her in a ward. Meanwhile, A&E, Surgical and general staff couldn't anage to swap information betwee themselves. Maybe it was sitting in a pile on some drone's desk.

As for me, I was 'lucky' enough to come down with appendicitis some years ago. I went to the after hours A&E (not the one at the hospital), and the doctor um'd and aah'd about what was wrong, then gave me some very strong painkillers and sent me home. The fookin car trip each was was awful, only about 15 minutes, but I was in so much pain I threw up.
The next morning, I was still in pain, number by taking three tables AND some aspirin ever four hours. I found a doctor who would do house calls, and he decided (based on the pain) that I should be admitted. No way was I going to travel in the car again, so we rang St Johns (I was a member) and had a reasonably comfy trip up there. Unfortunately, the hospital staff were on strike the week I was there, so I ended up in a ward that was mixed orthopedic, geriatric and surgical patients. My appendix burst somewhere along the line. The operation was OK, but the aftercare was execrable, with interns playing at nurses, volunteers, miscommunication, etc. Examples: I hada drain stitched to my abdomen, that had to be gradually withdrawn so the wound could heal up and close behind it. The first nurse to attend to it didn't have her glasses and tried to pull it out without unstitching it. Another: an intern had this brillinat idea he could be Mr SuperEfficient by cutting corners. E.g., to save time, he put an antibiotic drip (straight from the freezer) in my arm, and put it on fast drip. My arm got cold, then numb, then excrutiatingly sore, so I asked my sister to turn it off. It was supposed to be in for four or five days, but it ossified after two, so they pulled it out. Didn't have time to put another one in.
Another example: No-one told me anything! I didn't realise I was supposed to move around, but luckily I was so dying for a piss that I got out of bed rather than use a bottle. All this 'crap' came out of the drain (which at that time I was unaware of being there) and all over the floor. Due to that, and the pain, I thought I'd come apart.
Another example: apart from the first drugged-up night, I was awake the whole time I was in hospital (5 nights). It was hellish.
I ended up discharging myself early, and had another week or 10 days of a nurse coming to visit me at home.
The 'best' bit: during the nurses strike, the Minister of Health (Shipley, IIRC), was also admitted to hospital. Private, of course. :rolleyes:

Anyway, sorry to derail the thread - it just brought back all the shit.
I REALLY hope things turn out OK for you, Paul and Vicki.

[Swoop]

Very sorry to hear this Paul. I hope Vicky is attended to swiftly today.

Totally agree regarding the nurses as well. Having spent a short (as possible) amount of time with a sick relative at North Shore Horsepiddle, they are spending staggering amounts of time on computers there. Surely their bloody TradeMe auction has closed and they could consider attending to a patient?:2guns:

[bungbung]

Hi Paul, I hope things are working out for Vicki and yourself this morning. Ola

[Fatjim]

I was just talking to my wife about this the other day and she didn't believe me. My daughter fell off the trampoline and we were discussing what would have happened if it had turned out worse. I said to call an ambulance, better to make a donation than piss around with A&E.

My son some years ago sprayed some sort of house cleaner in his eyes. We flushed them and I tore him into Palmerston A&E. Same thing as Wellington. He's possibly got some shit in his eyes that are damaging them and they do nothing. I was fucking close to bashing down the door and riping into the bitch behind the counter. In hindsight, I should have called an ambulance. BTW, he was fine in the end, the flushing did the job, but I aged several years in the process.

Oh, btw, I hope Vicki is fine.

[roy.nz]

Dont worry Paul i know how you feel.
I had my bike accident at round 7 in the morning got the ambo to NORTH SHORE hospital and got there round 7:30am. Now this is where the shit started, i got the good old clipboard, filled it out got wheeled into the emergency waiting room and then round 11am after nagging the nurse got wheeled to the x-ray department waited another hour there got wheeled back to the waiting room till bout 3pm was told the x-rays wheren't clear, back to the x-rays and got forgotten about for 2 hours, asked nurses and nobody knew i was even there. Got wheeled back to the waiting room and around 6 or 7 was told im gonna be spending the night and i should have a bed in 10 to 15 mins time, yeah right come 22:30 and i finally got a bed and was only offered pain relief then????:mad: and the they told me at 12 the next day im booked for a cat scan, guess what that only happened at 2pm, then i was finally put into cast and told to come back in 2 weeks, made my appointment went back and nobody knew about me even though i confirmed the day before.
So yes the health system is slack, O when i did get the bed the ward was only 1/3 full.
Pretty sad system.
:mad::argh::angry2:

[Blossom]

Hope Vicki is getting some care from the hospital now, Good that you have a good GP. All the best for you both.

[RantyDave]

My crash - March this year - I got to stagger into AnE, announce myself as having been in a motorcycle crash, probably have broken ribs, having difficulty breathing - then wait for an hour before they even send the triage nurse. Fucking amateurs.

Is Vicki OK?

Dave

[vifferman]

Dont worry Paul i know how you feel....etc etc.
Phark!
I thought my last one was bad: crash at 8am-ish, spent most of the day on a gurney in the halls of Auckland Hospital, got home about 4:30 PM the same day. In between, there was a wee bit of x-raying, an unnecessary jab with a needle coz I'd forgotten I'd had a tetanus booster, and much pain. I was too stupid/sore to insist on anything, so didn't have my foot x-rayed. "You can walk, it must be OK".
Walk?!?! WTF?!?! More like hop/hobble/limp. Still gives me shit some 5 or 6 years laters.

[sunhuntin]

Phark!
I thought my last one was bad: crash at 8am-ish, spent most of the day on a gurney in the halls of Auckland Hospital, got home about 4:30 PM the same day. In between, there was a wee bit of x-raying, an unnecessary jab with a needle coz I'd forgotten I'd had a tetanus booster, and much pain. I was too stupid/sore to insist on anything, so didn't have my foot x-rayed. "You can walk, it must be OK".
Walk?!?! WTF?!?! More like hop/hobble/limp. Still gives me shit some 5 or 6 years laters.

i hear ya on that! when i came off, they focused solely on the leg that was bleeding. and me still being hopped on natural adrenalin didnt know my other knee was damaged as well. long story short, my unbroken bleeding left leg got a cast, and my damaged right knee was left to carry my 70-odd kg frame around for 2 weeks. that didnt do it any favours either. its been 3 years and still hurts like hell in the wrong temps or if im kneeling/squatting at work.

and just recently, my old bosses son spent about 10 days in hospital. he was in there for 2 days before my boss flipped his lid and demanded they do something. hayden very nearly died from a burst appendix. his still a very sick young man, but at least he is alive, no thanks to the hospital. both these stories happened at wanganui hospital.

paul... i hope the mrs is feeling better. the health system sucks arse over here. its fucking pathetic.

[MotoGirl]

I'm sorry to hear that, Paul.

You know what scares me the most about our DHBs? They have been known to prioritise based on ethnicity.

My boss and workmates are ex-DHB employees and I hear bits and pieces from them. I've also observed things for myself whilst wandering around the hospital as an external contractor (we had access to all the departments).

One memorable event is when an appointment was double-booked because the Maori patient had not attended her five previous appointments (for a tubal ligation). The admin staff did genuinely not expect her to show up so wanted to fit in a cancer patient in that slot. When it was learnt that the appointment was double-booked, they were told to bump the cancer patient because Maori patients always come first, regardless of their health issue.

[sunhuntin]

thats shit! they should NOT be allowed to do that. im betting the cancer patient was a tax payer living a decent life, where as the tubal ligation was just another drain on the system adding more shit genes to the pool.

[MotoGirl]

thats shit! they should NOT be allowed to do that. im betting the cancer patient was a tax payer living a decent life, where as the tubal ligation was just another drain on the system adding more shit genes to the pool.

Yup, I've quickly learnt that the health system is not about fairness. If it was, someone might come to my house to collect me and my whanau when it's time for an appointment. I'm also told that Maori have their own clinics within the hospital so, in the case of a referral, they'll get seen before you or I. The preferential treatment doesn't end there...

[Nasty]

Hi Paul

I know how you feel the system sucks the big one ... when Grub came off they took him to Hutt, where they checked him out and sent him home without booking for xrays .. which we found essential a couple of days later after he swelled to three times the size and found he had four broken bones in his arm.

I hope that Vicky is ok.. if there is anything I can do just call me ... i am easy to find ... fingers and toes are crossed.

[sunhuntin]

Yup, I've quickly learnt that the health system is not about fairness. If it was, someone might come to my house to collect me and my whanau when it's time for an appointment. I'm also told that Maori have their own clinics within the hospital so, in the case of a referral, they'll get seen before you or I. The preferential treatment doesn't end there...

hmmm, my mrs is maori... wonder if i could sneak in behind her? lol.
its shite like this that i avoid doctors and hospitals like the plague. when i came off, i was protesting the whole way into the ambulance. i was determined to go to work. chances are, my legs would be fine if they hadnt dragged me off. havent been majorly sick since 2003/2004, and then it was glandular fever. the meds from the doc plugged up my plumbing and removed my reason from struggling out of bed. needless to say, that medicince went down the drain. my body fixed itself within a month.

[pete376403]

really sorry to hear about your troubles and I hope vicki is improving.

I haven';t had a lot of experience with emergency care but when I had a (mild) heart attack, Lower Hutt A&E could not have been better. Perhaps they have certain trigger phrases, but when I delivered myself to A&E on a weekday mid-morning and said the magic words ("heart attack"), they were all over me in minutes, (to be fair the place was not that busy) and the standard of care I got over the following week was excellent. Lucky timing I guess.

[Lias]

I've had two relatives die through the apathy and neglect of the state run health system. They should just shut it down entirely, and go to an entirely user pays health system.

[Str8 Jacket]

Huh, I know whatcha talking about!!

I had to go and see my GP today. She was on sick leave (due to a bad accident) so I had to see a locum. So I walk into this locum’s office and tell him that my stomach has been causing me grieve and my belly button has swollen up in a big way! Anyone that knows me, know that I had a cancer scare a couple of years ago so I take abnormal lumps and bump’s VERY seriously now day’s.

So anyway, without even checking out my stomach or even trying to listen to me he tells me that it’s definitely my bowels and goes on to list all this food I should try to avoid for 2 weeks to see if the swelling will go down. I try telling him that I know that I am crook and have a temperature but he liked the sound of his own voice too much…. Long story short; I walk out of his office in the middle of his spiel about how I probably don’t my own body as well as I would like to think and I go straight to the reception and demand to see another doctor. Another doctor see’s me immediately and discovers (immediately) that I have a temp of 38.5. So she examines my stomach to discover a large abscess. Bloody lucky that I knew something was wrong or who knows what would’ve happened to me while I was eating rabbit food for 2 weeks!!

[Forest]

I'd just like to use this opportunity to recommend the St Johns first aid courses:

http://www.stjohn.org.nz/education/courses.aspx

The courses aren't free, but the training will more than pay for itself when you need it.

[Marknz]

Hi Paul,

While my Wgtn A&E story had a happy ending, I feel for you and do know what you mean.

Here's hoping you have good news to share with us this evening. Best wishes to you and Vicki.

[Beemer]

My mother-in-law is in Palmerston North Hospital for the fourth time in four months after having a heart attack. They keep sending her home and saying they will make an appointment for her to go to Wellington. Well, finally they say it will happen next week as this heart attack damaged her heart.

Makes me sick (pardon the pun) when you see scum in prison get immediate medical attention whenever anything goes wrong and yet decent people get the run around.

I hope Vicki is feeling better and/or gets the treatment she needs soon.

[scumdog]

Face it peeps - NZ is a 3rd world country (that is also over-regulated):weep:

[RantyDave]

Face it peeps - NZ is a 3rd world country
Worse than that, man. It's a 3rd world country full of people that think it's really rich (and it's just them that's broke). News flash: it's damn near everybody :(

Dave

[Manxman]

Has anyone considered emailing this thread to the new Minister of Health?

Plenty of eye popping examples of incompetence and bureaucracy to get his teeth into.

[Paul in NZ]

OK - I'm home @ 9:30pm...

The GP / local nurse were fabulous and squeezed us in, total exam, ranf the surgical registrar, wrote a letter addressed to this person and detailed everything, called him back and told him we were on our way, didn't ask for any $$, brought us into and out of the practise out the back so Vicki didn't have to walk too far. Coastal Medical - Jan and Julie - YOU GUYS ARE A CREDIT to the profession...

Raced into town - triage nurse didn't even look at the letter - I had to open it and she then asked all the same questions when the info was all docummented for her including Vickis medical history... I guess she was pissed we buggered off the night before to see our GP... Dunno - at least she was nicer about the whole thing... They are all nice people in a shitty situation I reckon...

So we wait... With everyone else and ED is now in code RED.... Oue co operation is appreciated....

And we wait... At least this time we didn't get the crazy rubbish bag man sitting next to Vicki leering at her and there were less kiddies.

The letter eventually worked and we are admitted to the inner sanctom - where we wait (we are now so tired we have just given up and meekly wait) - we luck out and get a room (of sorts) while many old ladies are stuck in halls (later I go for a walk and find people stuck in corridors all over the show)

We get examined - the letter has disappeared (sorry - not in your file )

Answer the same questions to 4 different people.

6:30 she gets morphine

7:30, Vicki has a CT scan.

8:30 I go home while I can still drive to get my night time insulin.

9:30 Vicki calls - yes it's confirmed, appencitis and she is having an op in the morning (hopefully) - yes she is still in ED in a exam room as there are 12 people waiting for admission and beds and there ARE no beds - or staff.

The staff do their best.

12 people waiting - sorry - they won't get beds and are stuck in ED all night meaning others can't get in.

Contractors (Transfield) filled many of the ED car parks.

Half the staff in ED resigned this month - our first nurse was one of them.

David the DR was great but it was his first day and he didn't know how anything worked...

Storm the nurse was wonderful - but she looked very tired.

EVERY person I said - 'busy day eh' too said 'eh - its like this everyday'

Not a good day but now we know what we are dealing with - for 2 hours today it was possibly something much worse...

Chirst I'm tired....

[Fatjim]

Mate, that is so bad. People in charge, and I mean the suits at the top, should be named and shamed. I bet if they worked in a brewery and organised a pissup everyone would be sober and thirsty at the end of the night.

[Paul in NZ]

Mate, that is so bad. People in charge, and I mean the suits at the top, should be named and shamed. I bet if they worked in a brewery and organised a pissup everyone would be sober and thirsty at the end of the night.

I bet transfield don't park in their spaces either...

Its pretty shocking down there - imagine if there was a civil defence problem - you would be fucked. I have not described all we went through or saw today because its raw and most folks are doing their best but christ, what a mess....

DON'T get sick

[madmal64]

Great to get an update Paul. I have been checking this thread alot today waiting for the progress report.
Hope Vicki gets the treament we all deserve quickly tomorrow.
All the best & you look after yourself too!

[jrandom]

I have a holy horror of the NZ public health system.

We have excellent private A&E clinics and hospitals. I cannot imagine why anyone in this country who is not destitute would choose to exist without medical insurance.

My ex-wife was diagnosed today with three melanomas. Her surgery is scheduled for ten days from now.

If I hadn't continued paying Sovereign the premiums for her health insurance policy after our divorce, based on the prescient notion that I might need her in one piece to look after the kids, I strongly suspect that her diagnosis today would have been the first step of a process that'd simply see her die on a waiting list for one reason or another before they left primary school.

When I binned and smashed my hand up last year, I went to a White Cross A&E clinic. For $50, they shot me up with painkillers immediately, X-rayed me and transferred me to Middlemore by ambulance, where I was wheeled into a treatment room straight past a couple of dozen poor bastards who'd been waiting for god knows how long to be checked out for free.

If I'd gone straight to the public A&E, I could have been sitting in that room in agony for hours.

My best wishes to Vicki, Paul, I hope everything works out OK.

[chanceyy]

OMG Paul, I know the health system is in tatters but that is shocking

hope that all goes well for Vicki's op and she makes a speedy recovery

[Brett]

Shit Paul, that is really crap. Hope by this time tomorrow everything has played out ok.

The DHB's in part have a bit to answer for, and CERTAINLY the previous government has had a LOT to answer for in regards to their stubborness and refusal to accept the vast backward slide of the NZ health system.

The Dr's do their absolute best, many worked faaaar beyond what is safe, reasonable and fair. They are between a rock and a hard place. They are legally only supposed to work a certain number of hours per shift, per week etc. however due to poor planning and lack of staff, pretty much all of them work well past such limits and are thus putting their necks on the line should anything go wrong. You can be sure, it iwll be their heads that roll if anything goes wrong as the govt looks to put blame away from them. I understand this, because I have read my wifes employment contract. When you take a standard (Public Sector) Dr's salary and break it down to an hourly wage, you can be looking at between $20 & $25 per hour. No wonder few people see the study and work worth the end result. But they do it out of some misguided sense of duty.

The end result is that upstanding, tax paying citizens are treated like shit when they most need care.

[SARGE]

I am sorry you have had such a bad time but there are factors to consider, and no I am not trying to defend the hospitals system, globally there is a shortage of qualified nurses so staffing numbers are lower than desired in any hospital, **snip**

[B]You think you get frustrated spare a thought for those who work in those professions, they do give a dam but their hands are tied by the systems in place,**snip**. This is the attitude that make medical professionals give up and drive taxi's.

maybe if we stopped paying idiot sports stars, pop stars and politicians huge undeserved salaries and put that money into Nurses, Teachers and cops.. our world would be a better place..

[Bloody Mad Woman (BMW)]

Good luck for a speedy recovery Vicki. Paul, I was not surprised to read about your experiences with A&E - I witnessed it first hand with my own experience. I got to A&E at 12 noon. God knows what time I got thru the inner sanctum, had a CT Scan then was left at reception in a bed - like many others. The Dr I had had been on duty since mid-day he told me - and he was giving me a lumbar puncture at 2.30am - a flamin 9cm needle in my spine and I'm thinking crikey mate your tiredness levels - I'm not sure I want you to do it. Finally I got to a ward at 5am - got kicked out at 12 noon, put in a lazyboy chair in the waiting room and a blanket thrown over me. Finally got an MRI at 5.30pm - the "released me on leave" at 7pm cos they had no beds (neurology dept) and I was to report back at 8am - where upon I had to sit in the waiting room again. Dr came and advised me in front of visitors that they had found something on the scan but they wanted to check exactly what it was - would be back to me in an hour - 2 hours later I threatened to walk out - I was in physical pain and could not stay awake. Finally the Dr came and in a loud voice asked for a private room. Gave me my diagnosis like he was talking about the weather, told me to go have lunch and be back for a neuro surgeon's appt at 1.30pm. I was dazed, walked out and lit a cigarette to which some arsewipe said "Do you realise you are not suppose to smoke here". My reply was Tell someone who gives a fk - if that is all you have to worry about you are lucky.

I don't have private insurance - can't afford it. However the relief of knowing what is wrong is good.
Sad to think alot of pain could have been avoided for Vicki had we a decent health system.

[Brian d marge]

oh dear butter post this in a quiet voice ...

When I visited NZ , a couple of years a go , I popped into a health centre to get some work done , not to bad , 70 dollars for the Xray was a bit steep..

Just had my WOF here in Japan , complete check up , blood , XRays , poked and prodded , for an hour ( not a complete , as I didnt get a ct scan nor on the tread mill) . but 2000 yen

teeth wisdom removal , 10 000 yen total , per tooth , FILLINGS , 500yen , some sort of fancy glue ..

We do pay a insurance of I think 13000 a month , not sure ,,,but that cover 75 %

Mind you dont give birth on a weekend ,,,that will cost u a bit , our second child cost 150 000 up front of which we get 70 % back in 5 months

THE WORST I have ever seen was London hospital , I clipped a car as a DR and finished off the days work , struggling to walk , so popped over to London Hospital ,,,got there at three in the afternoon , got home at TEN in the evening ,,, with broken toes ( crush injury of the right foot ) ..2 asprin and an Icepack .. ( strapping it would have been nice )

Me I am getting all my work done here !!!!:shutup::innocent::shit:

Stephen

[Storm]

Thats crappy news paul, hope your wonderful wife is a bit better off now.

[Paul in NZ]

Call from the nurse at 1:30am

Appendix confirmed (well duh) Vicki having op this morning assuming no more road crashes so will go into ward last night. We are in! I guess we were lucky she was so sick - first present 10pm monday night - into a ward 1:30am wed, god knows what it would be like if you were harder to diagnose.

As always, gratefull that we lie in a time and place where this is not fatal but also wondering why this has to be so damn difficult and inefficient? Not everyone that turns up at A & E is a freeloader, many have nowhere else to go. GP's practises are closed in many cases and often our more special citizens don't have the resources to come up with alternatives. There is nowhere else - medical insurance won't cover acute cases (I checked), there is one option and one option only, your local DHB. Travelling to the Hutt oe palmy would have resulted in an ambulance trip back to wellie.. You have no options...

Saddest of all was the many many elderly arriving in ambulanes and then laying in coridors - not very dignified and not something to look forwards to.

Pretty grim stuff.... Ultimately its up to us - but I don't think this is acceptable practise..

[Nasty]

With the new hospital and upgrades there is going to be no increase in the number of beds, due to the move to community based care for people. Its all rather sick really.

I am glad to here that Vicki should get her surgery this morning .. quite thankful!!

[Owl]

maybe if we stopped paying idiot sports stars, pop stars and politicians huge undeserved salaries and put that money into Nurses, Teachers and cops.. our world would be a better place..

Yeah, make your own entertainment and give us back services!

I hope your wife gets through this ok Paul and yes, the health system is a shocker.

A mate of mine was sent home from A&E here after an asthma attack and only admitted on a second attempt.
Thing’s get cloudy, but apparently he was struggling to breathe that first night, couldn’t get help and got out of bed to reach his medication. He collapsed for an unknown amount of time, only to be found unconscious on the floor.
He was put on life support for a few days while they checked for brain activity, but unfortunately he’d starved of oxygen too long!!!
The bit that I still don’t understand is why they never bothered to contact his wife after he was found. She arrived at the hospital in the morning to see her husband hopefully feeling better. Her last conversation with him was in A&E!:mad:

[SARGE]

Yeah, make your own entertainment and give us back services!



maybe Amy Winehouse should hire her own med staff and stop sucking the life out of the medical profession..

im perfectly capable of entertaining myself..2 bikes, a garden, the interrdweeb and a bug zapper

[Paul in NZ]

Thing’s get cloudy, but apparently he was struggling to breathe that first night, couldn’t get help and got out of bed to reach his medication. He collapsed for an unknown amount of time, only to be found unconscious on the floor.

I have not covered the things I'm most angry about because I'm not sure of my thinking on them but your story does not amaze me... Their eyes glide over you in the waiting areas, very keen not to lock stares as if to be sure not to acknowledge your pain or your humanity, hard to remain impartial if you do - yes, it's not a factory but it's not a meat market either.... Not very nice

[FROSTY]

Yadda yadda health system etc etc --FUCK THAT ---is Vicky now ok mate?????

[Swoop]

Let us hope that Vicki has a good experience with the health system today!


I have a holy horror of the NZ public health system.

We have excellent private A&E clinics and hospitals. I cannot imagine why anyone in this country who is not destitute would choose to exist without medical insurance.
I am led to believe that even if you have private insurance, yet are forced to call for an ambulance, the public system has you in their grip and will do everything to prevent you attempting to escape to a private horsepiddle.

[Lissa]

Dont get me started on our Health System.

My dad had a horror time with his back problems a few years ago. There is nothing worse than seeing your father lying in bed, unable to move and the doctors doing nothing to help him and hes in tears begging you to end his life.

All this when I was eight months pregnant, my mum was out of town and my dad was unable to move at all, or go to the toilet because of the pain relief used, so he was in pain from his back and his bladder.

Got the doctor to make a house call and he did nothing, was fucked off!! In the end an ambulance was called, dad went to the hospital only to be man handled by the nurse who thought that his only problem was the bladder and made his back pain worse (all because they cant read a ferken chart!)... infact told my father off for complaining about the pain! Then he was told he had prostrate cancer when he didnt. Blah, I dont want to get sick.

I hope everything goes well for Vicki!

[Clivoris]

The whole experience must suck shit Paul. I hope it works out mate.

[jrandom]

I am led to believe that even if you have private insurance, yet are forced to call for an ambulance, the public system has you in their grip...

Ker rect.

This is why I have issued instructions to all around me that unless there is no alternative, I am to be driven, taxi'd or wheeled on a skateboard to a private clinic if I ever fuck myself up.

[riffer]

Sigh. Know how you feel Paul. Gini has sarcoidosis (which mysteriously flared straight after they gave her a hysterectomy to "cure" her chronic endometriosis).

Problem is, it causes her to have recurrent chronic pneumonia every winter, and she spends a couple weeks every winter (two, maybe three stays).

Of course, it's always 36 hours before she gets up to a ward after collapsing at home and me calling the ambulance.

I now have the routine pretty much down pat, including emergency insulin and food supplies in case of hyper- or hypo-glycaemic attacks.

It sucks.

Best wishes to Vicki and hope for her fast recovery.

[Jaxi]

Paul, I hope Vicky is ok, there is nothing worse than watching helplessly as your loved ones are in pain.

I'm in the UK and whilst everyone over her complains about the NHS, our experience of late has been awesome. My husband saw his GP for a dodgy mole, one week later it was excised, then when the (bad) results came back a week later, he was told that it could be up to 6 weeks before they could schedule him in for a wider excision and sentinel lymph node biopsy....

We thought about going private (paying for it as we don't have health insurance) but even then it would have been a good couple of weeks wait. A week and a half into the 6 weeks, he was called on a Wednesday asked to come in on the Sunday with Surgery on the Monday. Job done. The hospital treatment that my husband received could not be faulted, maybe we were there on a good couple of days!

Just waiting for the results, hopefully we caught the melanoma quick enough.

Family and friends in NZ have tried to convince us to come back home for treatment. I think we've made the right decision to stay here for now.

[Paul in NZ]

Well - an lumpy old day ranging from utter horror to pathetic gratitude.

I know it's hard to retain staff but you would think with patients waiting for critical operations and high on drugs that english comprehension and basic nursing skills (like being able to find a fucking vein) would be qualifiers?

Looking at 3 of the fuckers at the end of the bed while Vicki writhes in pain from a botched pain relief admin missing the vein and swelling her arm up like a balloon and having to point it out to them and them still not doing anything??? UN fucking believable - they were saved by igor the orderly (where do they get these people and are tatoos and an utter inability to talk mandatory) arriving with programing to pick up body a and transport it to the theatre regardless of its current condition... He was efficient in a golum mindless thug fashion... The caused the cannibal trio to lapse into a huddle the only bit of which I heard was 'It's better if they do it' (translation = it took the theatre team time to stabilise her enough to operate on the now massive problem which was a small problem a day or so back)

So - post op - different world. GREAT care, considerate staff and a floaty vicki high on the wonders of morphine and writing beatles songs in the air while she communes with her pumpkin coloured yogi.... Bitch wouldnt share either... :mad:

Anyway - she is safe now and cared for so I can sleep and wonder if I still have a job left?

Look - the staff kind of do their best - half are recent immigrants and half are so traumatised by the horror of the place they are numb and a few are kind souls on a path to sainthood. The system however is an abomination - if you value your families lives change it.... I can easily see how people die there needlessly - the cannibal 3 had NO idea what to do when vicki collapsed in pain due to their ineptitude other than make fucking sure it was NOT on her notes (I checked)

Seriously - is this good enough? An administration that will ping you for 111kph and allow citizens to die through neglect? Do you want this - I fuckin don't - this system needs to change - it could be your old mum stuck in a corridor with garbage bag man next...

The measure of the place - the nurse INSISTING I take her wedding band home so it won't get nicked - fuck me - I can't talk, I wear NO jewerly at all but it aint left her side in 28 years and now it has to for security - sad.....

[chanceyy]

this system needs to change - it could be your old mum stuck in a corridor with garbage bag man next...


ah yes Paul several yrs ago my mum ended up in Hamilton hospital .. so left work & started the quick dash up north found out when I was about a hour out that she was being "released" for the weekend but had to go back on sunday & have a wee investigation on the monday ..

I arrived & advised staff at A & E I was there to pick up my mom .. they told me to wander in that direction til I "found" her .. on the way out she wanted a wee detour to the toilet before we headed back to Te Aroha (bout 40 mins away) and we had to pass a number of ppl on beds in the corridor.

There were a number of elderly ppl in real distress being comforted by loved ones out in the corridors as there simply was not anywhere else to have them. I only found out later that my mother had a rectal exam in the corridor with a half screen around her as they did not have anywhere private to do it. To say my elderly mother was mortified & I was livid was probably an understatement.

This was somehow made worse when we turned up on sunday with admittance forms to the ward to be told that they had not received any paperwork & were not even expecting her. That took a hour to resolve.

however once in the ward the care was exceptional.

In constrast when she had her hip replaced last yr privately she certainly paid for the care but by god what care she got .. Mind you it helped that one of the Kbers worked there & also made sure that both my parents & myself were very well cared for :)

I know that there are horror stories all over NZ ... so how best to change it ??

[pete376403]

You're going to copy these notes to Tony Ryall, correct?

Glad to hear a good outcome, even though getting there was so traumatic.

[Paul in NZ]

You're going to copy these notes to Tony Ryall, correct?

Glad to hear a good outcome, even though getting there was so traumatic.

Yes - a good outcome but why so hard? Its a bit like a biker living through a 300kph blast through the streets of a city - what were you worried about??? Nothing really bad happened?

The possibility of BAD happenened many many times and it was a combination of dumb luck and Vickis fortitude that prevailed....

The theme of my thead is well chosen - don't get sick and if you do DON'T go to hospital and if you have to - call a bloody ambulance, at least you by pass the ogre on triage... I really don't remember voting for this, but I've seen us (middle class kiwis) being ripped and raped in my own field so I can only guess..

Aw fugit - off to bed - 3 days without sleep its too much... soooo. tired....

[Paul in NZ]

Oh god - I've fallen into my old habits again..... put it down to stress but really - is this the right place for a thread like this or should I kill it and retire injured?

[James Deuce]

I know that there are horror stories all over NZ ... so how best to change it ??

Staffing levels haven't been great since the '60s, however staffing levels are well below what they were 20 years ago, doctors, nurses, radiographers (them especially) inclusive. Simple answer. Get rid of the DHBs and the 6 figure salary management chain, and actually pay hospital staff what they are worth.

The only people working in hospitals at the moment in front line jobs are the really committed and those with no other choice. Everyone else has fled to other countries, careers, and roles in life. The NZ health system has demonstrated a lack of desire to pay doctors, nurses, and specialist technical staff enough so that they stay here rather than go almost anywhere else, and we're witnessing the end result, in this story and every other story you hear.

[Lucy]

Yeah, and not all health care 'workers' are saints either. Specialists refusing to travel out to Kenepuru is the reason Wellington Hospital was rebuilt in the same 'too small, badly positioned, fkd in an earthquake' place.

[James Deuce]

Yeah, and not all health care 'workers' are saints either. Specialists refusing to travel out to Kenepuru is the reason Wellington Hospital was rebuilt in the same 'too small, badly positioned, fkd in an earthquake' place.
I go so far as to say that I've met two consultants in the last 20 years who were truly good, respectful people, who didn't treat all their patients like retarded cadavers. One is now a gardener and the other has recently retired. However, hang around the "system" long enough and you learn how to protect yourself.

[Nasty]

Oh god - I've fallen into my old habits again..... put it down to stress but really - is this the right place for a thread like this or should I kill it and retire injured?

This is defiantely the right place for the thread ... its something that all of us feel affected by .. and also lots of us know vicki and want to know how she is doing!!

[chanceyy]

Oh god - I've fallen into my old habits again..... put it down to stress but really - is this the right place for a thread like this or should I kill it and retire injured?


This is defiantely the right place for the thread ... its something that all of us feel affected by .. and also lots of us know vicki and want to know how she is doing!!

Echo what Kari says Paul - from the replies it shows that a number of us have been affected by the lack of "good" healthcare with the different DHB's around the country.

and yes we want to know how Vicki is doing :) Hopefully now on well on the road to recovery

[vifferman]

it could be your old mum stuck in a corridor with garbage bag man next...
It basically was - she was stuck for three days in what was probably originally intended as a storage cupboard in A&E.


Staffing levels haven't been great since the '60s,
Apparently they're well up - all bureaucrats, yet the important patient info doesn't get recorded or shared. And all the project managers, tema leaders, etc. don't result in any extra healthcare being done, or any particular efficiency.

I guess some things haven't changed. I have been in hospital only once since I was born, and I noted there were definite differences in the types of healthcare workers. There were those for him it was "just a job", and the patients were an unwelcome but semi-unavoidable part of that job.
Then there those for whom it was a career: efficient(ish), but detached and clinical.
There were those who cared, but who weren't necessarily good at what they did.
The ones that really stood out were those for whom it was a calling: they are the ones who make a real difference to patient well-being, as they are kind, compassionate AND good at looking after the patients.

Anyway, I hope things improve for Vicki, Paul, and that you get some rest.

[Cajun]

Paul glad ot hear Vicky is doign better.

Interesting insight when i fliping tv last night i caught a bit on tv1 current affairs program it was on hostipiwal waiting lists, and in theory how 3__ something people die each yeah due to not being seen quick enough in a&e, and how some DHB person was rabbiting on how our level from a&e to ward bed is lower than aussie, can't remember the time, but was something like 15 hours for nz, 17 for aussie (seven just rings bells for me)


Emergency deaths
We've all heard the stories of patients left lying on stretchers in the emergency department, out in the corridor if really unlucky. It's termed access block when there just aren't enough beds to put them into a ward so the emergency department becomes a holding pen where patients can lie and wait for hours - eight hours is the trigger for access block. A visiting emergency department specialist is about to tell a conference in the capital that it's costing three hundred lives a year in this country and the whole business is explained away by myths and misconceptions. Dr David Mountain, a senior lecturer and a hands on emergency specialist, joins Mark Sainsbury along with Geraint Martin, CEO of Counties Manukau DHB. found the video for it here -> http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/465467/2334166

[Swoop]

... it could be your old mum stuck in a corridor with garbage bag man next...
It already has been. 24hrs in a corridor of North Shore A&E.
I totally agree with your comment on the mentality of this Banana Republic's (previous) leaders, of penalising a few km's over and then providing this standard of healthcare.

I hope you have had some rest Paul. You will need to look after your good lady, at home, soon.

[Paul in NZ]

Vickis home...

Post op care was stellar - really great. Quite a contrast.

Jesus what a mess ED is... Ride carefully folks - you don't wanna end up there..

[chanceyy]

Vickis home...

Post op care was stellar - really great. Quite a contrast.

Jesus what a mess ED is... Ride carefully folks - you don't wanna end up there..

Good news Paul :) now she will get the best care there is ... :hug:

[mstriumph]

.................

Contractors (Transfield) filled many of the ED car parks.

.............

i've torn the windscreen wipers off inconsiderately-parked cars before now ... you are to be commended PiNZ for keeping your cool - this whole awful situation would have had many of us [me for one] tearing out throats.

Hope it's all settled now.

[Brett]

Guys, dont confuse an A&E with an ED. They are vastly different and opperate under different guidelines and standards. AND they are normally privately owned. Going to an A&E is like walking into any business, some will be better than others, but if you don't like it...take business elsewhere. ED's however, are there to serve us, and we have rightsto demand better from them.

[Number One]

Great news to hear that Vicki is home again after being treated and treated well! :sunny:

[Blossom]

Yes good to hear that Vicki is home. Hope she continues to improve and gets back to full health soon.

[Nasty]

Guys, dont confuse an A&E with an ED. They are vastly different and opperate under different guidelines and standards. AND they are normally privately owned. Going to an A&E is like walking into any business, some will be better than others, but if you don't like it...take business elsewhere. ED's however, are there to serve us, and we have rightsto demand better from them.

What you are talking about is A&M - Accident and Medical - which is privately owned and operated - ED - Emergency Departments - which operated 100% out of the DHBs - they have to triage and operate under those standards - they also have to meet other requirements both legislated and standardised. The A&M has to meet the Accident and Medical Clinic Standards which are not quite as strigent.

[sunhuntin]

glad to hear she is home safe and sound.

ive just been told the death of a friends grandson was the result of a senior doctors fuck up. the boy was 23 months old and was taken to hospital with an unknown illness. because he seemed to "improve" over the 3 HOURS he was there, he was sent home, with his young parents being told the red spots were flea bites.

turns out he had meningitis. what a pity hospitals cant be done for manslaughter. his parents were on close up last night [i think it was close up] there was an article in the paper today with reps from the hospital basically telling the public what they want to hear... thorough investigation, all questions answered.

[Paul in NZ]

Jesus h Christ - what a day of playing nurse but we seem to have broken the post op pain / fever barrier at last - I'm soooooo tired....

My baby aint yellow no more - fuck me, why do I pay taxes, I'm sorry I don't feel grateful at all - I feel embarassed for the good people having to gamble with others lives for the sake of a budget. As for the competency of some of the staff - I'm speachless - filthy fucking unqualified arseholes, I hope you are forced to undergo the same pain and humiliation you $%#@...

UNFORGIVABLE! You guys are DEFINATELY on the black list....

Worst of all - once we retire we can't afford medical insurance so we fear for the worst - we are fucked...

BEST of all - our GP Jan called this afternoon very concerned because she had not heard back and wanted to check Vicki was OK. Jan - YOU are a credit to your profession as is David the Surgeon and the post op people.