The business intellect of kiwis

[Finn]

Very rarely do I encounter a good experience when purchasing products in NZ. In fact, it's been so long that I can't remember the last time I was actually satisfied.

I really wonder what goes on in the heads of business owners in NZ. Words like "distribution", "service" and "excellence" are virtually non existent in the commerce vocabulary of businesses in NZ.

Having just spent a ton of money fixing my house (sponge) because of the number 8 mentality of kiwi's, I planned to move back in this Friday. Ah, not so fast...

1) My carpet provider told me 6 weeks to make my carpet, I gave them 9. They ring me to tell me it won't be ready, that they ran out of yarn. How can you run out of yarn in friggen NZ?

2) Decided to make a few changes to the bathrooms. Big mistake. Basins and mixers arrive 4 weeks early (see I thought I was being smart) but find out they don't work together. Order different taps. Oh sorry, not in stock. That will be 6 - 100 weeks. No one knows... or cares. I asked them to look up distribution in the dictionary.

3) Unrelated to the house but I was out on Sat to buy a couple of mountain bikes. Oh these are our new 09 models... cool I thought. Not so fast. They only ordered one of each size. I wanted two. This scenario was repeated across 5 bikes shops. No one had stock. IT'S FUCKEN CHRISTMAS!!!

The list goes on and on but you get the drift.

Wake up NZ. Morons.

[vifferman]

I can understand your frustration, Finn.
Pathetic, innit?
This is what I was getting at, with respect to motorcycle shops. There seems to generally be a complete lack of understanding about how to treat customers and potential customers. You'd think they'd understand that even though we have expensive toys, it doesn't mean we don't care about getting value for money.
It DOES mean we're more than prepared to take said money elsewhere.

[Finn]

It DOES mean we're more than prepared to take said money elsewhere.

Yeah like when I told the Harley dealer I wanted a Night Rod Special and got "You'll be lucky". I was actually. I got one from the US less $8k and only waited a few weeks.

This is what I'm talking about. vifferman is right.

[vtec]

The explanation is simple really, and its a worldwide problem, and it's all to do with the economy and inflation etc.

You may have noticed that for a long time houses have been increasing at a greater rate than average wages. This is because the housing market is actually a speculative bubble. This has increased demand and the worth of building materials and trade labour substantially, to the point now that you'd be lucky to get a 'leccy or plumber for $70/hr.

It's also the fact that the baby boomer generation stopped training anyone to do the trades which has decreased the supply of the tradesmen and further inflated labour rates and building costs. If you'll accept $70/hr for labour then you'll accept higher rates for materials too.

And when a company or person is making more than enough money, they lose a certain amount of motivation and care less and less about customers, wealth breeds laziness and contempt.

Now here's the good news, society has realised that we need tradesmen and you have to train them they aren't going to train themselves for a profession that they would have to self start in. So they are hiring apprentices and cadets again.

Also, the world is starting to realise that office workers are mostly unproductive bureaucrats and it's not as glamorous or well paid as all our female teachers led us to believe.

Don't worry, the solution is in sight. With the onrushing depression, and possible complete restructuring of wealth and the financial sector, more people will be pushed into doing productive jobs like trades, manufacturing and farming etc. Which will bring down these costs and also increase COMPETITION which is currently lacking. Who know's if your money is going to be worth anything in 2 years time though.

[Finn]

The explanation is simple really, and its a worldwide problem, and it's all to do with the economy and inflation etc.

You may have noticed that for a long time houses have been increasing at a greater rate than average wages. This is because the housing market is actually a speculative bubble. This has increased demand and the worth of building materials and trade labour substantially, to the point now that you'd be lucky to get a 'leccy or plumber for $70/hr.

It's also the fact that the baby boomer generation stopped training anyone to do the trades which has decreased the supply of the tradesmen and further inflated labour rates and building costs. If you'll accept $70/hr for labour then you'll accept higher rates for materials too.

Now here's the good news, society has realised that we need tradesmen and you have to train them they aren't going to train themselves for a profession that they would have to self start in. So they are hiring apprentices and cadets again.

Also, the world is starting to realise that office workers are mostly unproductive bureaucrats and it's not as glamorous or well paid as all our female teachers led us to believe.

Don't worry, the solution is in sight. With the onrushing depression, and possible complete restructuring of wealth and the financial sector, more people will be pushed into doing productive jobs like trades, manufacturing and farming etc. Which will bring down these costs and also increase COMPETITION which is currently lacking. Who know's if your money is going to be worth anything in 2 years time though.

I'll contemplate your response while I'm shaving using toilet water. My gripe isn't about the cost of product / services in NZ, just the poor quality of both. Then if you decide to purchase quality (i.e. not made in NZ) then the importer very rarely has stock.

[Usarka]

Count yourself lucky most pushbike shops don't even stock super XS sizes.......

[ManDownUnder]

"You'll be lucky". I was actually. I got one from the US less $8k and only waited a few weeks.



Stop thinking for yourself - you types don't fit in around here. Fucken tall poppies...

[marioc]

Yep so true,its also a country full of whingers

[vifferman]

Then if you decide to purchase quality (i.e. not made in NZ) then the importer very rarely has stock.
You meant "not made in China".
We've rapidly become buyers of "consumer shit" (consumer electronics, cheap crappy tools, cheap crappy clothes, etc etc) most of which is made in China.

[Blackbird]

Sorry about your predicament Finn but maybe it's more of a problem in the main centres as I'd have to disagree with you based on my own experience of the last 3 or 4 years since we prepared to live in Coromandel full time. I can't speak highly enough of local tradespeople - they've always delivered in full and on time. I've always tried to be very clear about what I wanted and also paid up promptly - no probs at all in getting them when I want them. Likewise with the kitchen, curtain, carpet and bathroom people in Thames and Hamilton but I did my homework on them first. They've always got my repeat business. In fact, the owner of Home Plus in Thames dropped in on Sunday to measure up for some more insect screens and they will be here this week.

Out of city rates are fantastic too. We've just had a fair chunk of our reasonably large section cleared of scruffy bush, landscaped, replanted with decent natives and mulched all over for $1500 by the local garden centre!

The grass isn't necessarily greener elsewhere either - certainly isn't in the UK. I know it is diverting slightly but the sentiment is relevant. I saw an article in the London Times last week by Ben Ainslie, the British Olympic yachting champ who sailed with Team NZ in the last campaign. This is what he had to say: "Yes, finances are a huge issue in everybody's life, but it's not everything – especially when you go to countries like Australia and New Zealand and see how powerful sport is there, and what a positive effect it has on the national psyche and on people's lives from a young age, as they go through to adulthood, making them more competitive. To me, they are much healthier nations for it, not just physically but mentally too." Ainslie maintains that there is still a lack of competitive instinct in Britain. "I think we're generally too happy to be second best," he insists. "Somehow it's cool to be not really interested in winning, whereas in Australia and New Zealand everybody absolutely wants to be the best.

"You definitely see that over there. When they get into later life and have a career, they carry the focus they have from doing sport as a youngster into business. Getting up at five in the morning and working like maniacs. Then they get out in the evening and have a good time. I think we need to have a bit more of that attitude in the UK rather than everybody wandering off and watching Sky TV or getting on their PlayStation, and moaning and whingeing about everything."

There are always exceptions to the rule, but it's occasionally interesting to see how others see us.

[vtec]

I'll contemplate your response while I'm shaving using toilet water. My gripe isn't about the cost of product / services in NZ, just the poor quality of both. Then if you decide to purchase quality (i.e. not made in NZ) then the importer very rarely has stock.

Sorry I added this to my post later:
"And when a company or person is making more than enough money and lacks suitable competition, they lose a certain amount of motivation and care less and less about customers, wealth breeds laziness and contempt."

[Badjelly]

Yep so true, it's also a country full of whingers.
Please tell me the irony is deliberate!

[ManDownUnder]

You meant "not made in China".
We've rapidly become buyers of "consumer shit" (consumer electronics, cheap crappy tools, cheap crappy clothes, etc etc) most of which is made in China.

And to compliment that on the services side - India.

"El-lo? Welcum to Telekom Niu Zee-lan help desk... how may I be helping you?"

[CookMySock]

Stop thinking for yourself - you types don't fit in around here. Fucken tall poppies...Zacly. If ya don't like it, then go buy it elsewhere and quit ya whining.

If you want a package with everything in the same box,then go buy one. You will pay double the price, but you get one or the other - NOT BOTH.

I've been in retail for 20 years, and I tried fucken hard but I STILL get some moaning bitch every week who wants this for free, or fucken that for free, or wants to crunch some three-for-one deal into a fucken FIVE-for-one deal! I do not think so.

Consumers need to understand something: If you want retailers to suck your cock, then you have to PAY THEM A LOT MORE THAN RETAIL PRICE. If you don't like it, then go to the back of the queue. NEXT! We have more to do looking after people who PAY WELL, than those who want everything for nothing. We are here to MAKE MONEY, not kiss your ass.

Steve

[nodrog]

Zacly. If ya don't like it, then go buy it elsewhere and quit ya whining.

If you want a package with everything in the same box,then go buy one. You will pay double the price, but you get one or the other - NOT BOTH.

I've been in retail for 20 years, and I tried fucken hard but I STILL get some moaning bitch every week who wants this for free, or fucken that for free, or wants to crunch some three-for-one deal into a fucken FIVE-for-one deal! I do not think so.

Consumers need to understand something: If you want retailers to suck your cock, then you have to PAY THEM A LOT MORE THAN RETAIL PRICE. If you don't like it, then go to the back of the queue. NEXT! We have more to do looking after people who PAY WELL, than those who want everything for nothing. We are here to MAKE MONEY, not kiss your ass.

Steve

hes not fucken complaining about the fucken price, hes complaining about lack of stock and customer service (ie somebody actually being able to fucken tell him when his shit will arrive)

[ManDownUnder]

Zacly. If ya don't like it, then go buy it elsewhere and quit ya whining.

I might have read too much into it - but I think that's what he said he did... costing local retailers money through lost sales.


I got one from the US less $8k and only waited a few weeks.
Those of us that can shop elsewhere... do - remarkably often

[Swoop]

Words like "distribution", "service" and "excellence" are virtually non existent in the commerce vocabulary of businesses in NZ.
Bollocks!
Words like that are thrown around all the time and normally by the fuckwits doing the marketing...
The problem is when they actually get a customer walking through the door, they then have to back up those promises.
This is when the problems arise...

[BarBender]

Bollocks!
Words like that are thrown around all the time and normally by the fuckwits doing the marketing...
The problem is when they actually get a customer walking through the door, they then have to back up those promises.
This is when the problems arise...

True..."distribution", "service" and "excellence" applies internally as it does externally.

Although....maybe some people should just stay the hell out of business.

[R6_kid]

My parents have just had the some trouble when doing up our two bathrooms. Luckily my father had bought most of it before starting. They did however 'purchase' two sets of taps at the 'home show' and were told they were in stock, ring up on wednesday later that week to arrange pickup and 'they dont get here for 4 weeks'...

Funnily enough the one thing I own that I thought would be a hassle for parts (a Volvo) wasn't, they had everything in stock (it's an 'older' 1997 car) and prices were well under what i was expecting. Service was great too.

[tommygun]

Consumers need to understand something: If you want retailers to suck your cock, then you have to PAY THEM A LOT MORE THAN RETAIL PRICE. If you don't like it, then go to the back of the queue. NEXT! We have more to do looking after people who PAY WELL, than those who want everything for nothing. We are here to MAKE MONEY, not kiss your ass.

Steve[/QUOTE

Been doing retail for for at least that long also and I totaly agree with this statement but because I am in retail I will never say that to a customers face. Sometimes I bend so far over I can kiss my own ass, but customers! they still expect me to swallow and call them in the morning. I still like retail though because there are still some people you can make happy and that makes me happy.:rolleyes:

"god bless the internet and free speech"

[vtec]

My parents have just had the some trouble when doing up our two bathrooms. Luckily my father had bought most of it before starting. They did however 'purchase' two sets of taps at the 'home show' and were told they were in stock, ring up on wednesday later that week to arrange pickup and 'they dont get here for 4 weeks'...

Funnily enough the one thing I own that I thought would be a hassle for parts (a Volvo) wasn't, they had everything in stock (it's an 'older' 1997 car) and prices were well under what i was expecting. Service was great too.

Haha, you drive a Volvo? I didn't realise you had grandkids Gareth.

[jrandom]

I didn't realise you had grandkids Gareth.

If he does, he probably doesn't know about them.

[CookMySock]

hes not fucken complaining about the fucken price, hes complaining about lack of stock and customer service (ie somebody actually being able to fucken tell him when his shit will arrive)SO?? If you don't like it, go elsewhere. Thats what yer feet are for. Either shut up and pay up, or piss off. Maybe you think
WE know when the fucken stock will arrive? (laughter dies down..) Start complaining and the price doubles - take it or leave it.

Steve

[Usarka]

I really want to test ride the new honda but the continous "it'll be here soon" messages are getting tiring.

And all it takes is to get fucked off with a brand to stop buying it for a loooooong time.

ps - shutting the fuck up and pissing off is why so many companies get away with piss poor service.

[Brett]

A joke innit? I have been waiting nearly 6 months...6 MONTHS for a shower slide rail for one of the showers in the new house. Apparently the Italians had their holidays, then they sent the wrong one...or so they said, long story short...it never got here...

Funny thing is, I ordered it, and in the time it took to NOT get here, I have been over to Europe for 3 months and spent travelled right across Italy. If I had known they would be thiis useless...I would have gone to the factory and got it myself.

[SARGE]

Very rarely do I encounter a good experience when purchasing products in NZ. In fact, it's been so long that I can't remember the last time I was actually satisfied.



i heard you got decent service buying an MV once :msn-wink:

[The Stranger]

I've been in retail for 20 years, and I tried fucken hard but I STILL get some moaning bitch every week who wants this for free, or fucken that for free, or wants to crunch some three-for-one deal into a fucken FIVE-for-one deal! I do not think so.


So what area of retail are you in?

[RantyDave]

Maybe you think
WE know when the fucken stock will arrive?
Maybe you think WE give a shit?

There are only two states here - can do and can't do. If these cnuts can't deliver the right stuff at the right time, they fall into the "can't" bucket. As much use as asking a passing bus driver about particle physics.

Besides, at what point did Finn's rant mention being short of money or, indeed, unwilling to part with it? Indeed, he only got $8k off his bike because the dealers were too lazy, incompetent, or for whatever reason just could not be arsed taking his money off him.

Dave

[Gremlin]

mmm don't have too many issues in the hardware/house industry... then again, Dad builds 40+ a year :done: We had 2 special baths in 6 odd weeks. Special order, it had to be made, shipped from Italy, coated here, and total delivery was around 3 weeks. The first one fell off the table during coating... cast iron doesn't fair too well... hence the 2nd :laugh: That was treated like gold.

Can't say we have too many issues supplying IT gear for our clients... but if it isn't in stock with suppliers, we don't recommend it. Easy :first: Sometimes, we are very picky with particular parts, refusing to use anything else, and we have shipped direct from our supplier's suppliers before :D

[Mom]

Wake up NZ. Morons.

What amuses me at the moment, are the number of companies that are strugging to survive and blame our current economic climate.

The fact that they are ineffecient and poorly managed obviously does not come into it.

[jrandom]

So what area of retail are you in?

He sells the sizzle, not the steak...

[nodrog]

Maybe you think
WE know when the fucken stock will arrive? (laughter dies down..)



well you fucken should, if you dont that is poor business management on your part. i order shit everyday from at least 10 different distributors and i know exactly what day it will turn up. oh and incase you are going to come back with "what if the distributors dont have it", stock availibilty is checked beforehand, and if its not availiable the client is given alternative solutions, not just feed alot of bullshit and told to "take it or leave it".

its not fucken rocket science (its customer service).

[Usarka]

well you fucken should, if you dont that is poor business management on your part. i order shit everyday from at least 10 different distributors and i know exactly what day it will turn up. oh and incase you are going to come back with "what if the distributors dont have it", stock availibilty is checked beforehand, and if its not availiable the client is given alternative solutions, not just feed alot of bullshit and told to "take it or leave it".

its not fucken rocket science (its customer service).


I think that's finns point, in NZ one could be excused for thinking it is rocket science. Sent up any probes lately? :lol:




As much use as asking a passing bus driver about particle physics.


You could ask an auckland taxi driver. Half them are nuclear physicists that have fled ubakywakystain.

[CookMySock]

There are only two states here - can do and can't do. If these cnuts can't deliver the right stuff at the right time, they fall into the "can't" bucket. As much use as asking a passing bus driver about particle physics.Sure. Sometimes we CANT find what you want. We do our best, but be assured that we will be thinking up amusing and belittling names for you in our smoko room later on, and smirking about them behind your back.


well you fucken should, if you dont that is poor business management on your part.90% of time this isn't an issue. Its not hard to put my finger on what I need for the customer. Sometimes the reverse is true, and the item just isn't available, or is not easily available, or our supplier just tripled the price without warning - things change continuously. My point is, it's tiring caring for 99% of the time, only to get some asshole rip a strip off coz they feel frustrated.. its not only them who feels frustrated.

We're ALL just trying to get the job done ok? Don't bite the messenger, coz he'll bite you back or tell you to fuck off, or he'll make sure you never get your shit.

Steve

[Fatjim]

Once again, DB completely misses the point. I'm surprised he's not talking about the blackcaps.

[Usarka]

90% of time this isn't an issue. Its not hard to put my finger on what I need for the customer.
Come on it's simple, bun, pattie, tomato, gherkin and lettuce. :killingme

[Fatjim]

90% of time this isn't an issue. Its not hard to put my finger on what I need for the customer. Sometimes the reverse is true, and the item just isn't available, or is not easily available.


Steve

Shit, how hard can "do you want fries with that" be.

edit: snap

[vifferman]

Once again, DB completely misses the point.
It's a wonder that he (or the company he works for?) is still in business, with a piss-poor attitude like that.
Yes, companies are in business to make money, but the way they can do better business and make better money is via better customer service. Or conversely, if DB took his apparent "customers are annoying fuckers who make life difficult for us" attitude to its logical conclusion, he/they would end up in the (apparently) happy situation of having no annoying customers, no business, and no money.

[Goblin]

Come on it's simple, bun, pattie, tomato, gherkin and lettuce. :killingme:Oi: You forgot the mayo! Where's me fuckin MAYO?!?

[RantyDave]

We do our best, but be assured that we will be thinking up amusing and belittling names for you in our smoko room later on, and smirking about them behind your back.
Fantastic, a company staffed entirely by six year olds. And for whom do you work, may I ask?

Oh, and if you're ever tempted by a career in PR - don't.

Dave

[pritch]

I'm not convinced that this is purely a New Zealand problem.

Over three years ago now I sent an email to Termignoni asking for price and delivery on a set of cans for the Hornet. Five months later I received an email reply from Anna Termignoni advising me to contact their Australasian agent in Sydney. So I did, I faxed off a query with printouts of the appropriate catalogue page etc.

I'm still waiting for an answer to the fax but it doesn't matter now, I've sold the Hornet and the new bike has Arrow cans...

[nodrog]

:Oi: You forgot the mayo! Where's me fuckin MAYO?!?

"fuck off, or I'll make sure you never get your shit."

DB

[Swoop]

:Oi: You forgot the mayo! Where's me fuckin MAYO?!?
I'm sure that there used to be a slice of cheese in there somewhere...

[Mom]

I'm sure that there used to be a slice of cheese in there somewhere...

Hold the gherkins for me thanks

[Swoop]

Hold the gherkins for me thanks
That sounds like the beginning of a dirty joke...

[Fatjim]

I'll hold your "Gherkins" Mom.

[Finn]

I've been in retail for 20 years

And you still don't get it. Some people really are slow learners.

[vifferman]

And you still don't get it. Some people really are slow learners.
Bad habits. Some people like to hang onto them, because they are their habits. "It's my opinion, therefore it's right! So fuck off!"

[Goblin]

"Every day it's the same thing! Two obese Patty's, special Ross, Lester Cheatum picking bunyons on a Seasame Street bus".

[Finn]

Sorry about your predicament Finn but maybe it's more of a problem in the main centres as I'd have to disagree with you based on my own experience of the last 3 or 4 years since we prepared to live in Coromandel full time.

I'd agree with that.

You're also right about the UK. They are masters at uselessness and people generally except it which is strange. France is also useless. The common theme... lazy race of people.

The US is a very good example of how to do things right - domestically I might add and it doesn't stop at retailers and distributors. My brother & I were leaving his house just outside San Fran for a few weeks and had to pop into the local municipal office (Council, police and other public SERVICES in one office - well duh NZ) to pay vehicle reg. A cop overheard us say we were overseas for 3 weeks and asked where we lived. We told him and he said he'd keep an eye on the place for us and even asked what day / time we were coming back. 3 weeks later we arrived and within the hour there was a knock on the door. "Everything okay sir?"

Another example this morning. I had a breakfast meeting with a supplier that has let me down in my business (funny that) and parked in a Wilson parking building. Upon leaving, the machine wouldn't accept my credit card. Out of service. I call the number, it says "Our office hours are 8:00am bla, bla. It was 8:50. I tried for 15 more minutes to make contact then broke the barrier.

Hey, and it's only 9:35. I'll have more by the close of business.

[vifferman]

You're also right about the UK. They are masters at uselessness and people generally except it which is strange.
I've been watching that "Grand Designs" programme, and it always astonishes me how long the houses take to build, and how useless the tradespeople are - failing to deliver things or turn up when scheduled, delivering the worng things, shoddy workmanship... It's flabbergasting.

France is also useless. The common theme... lazy race of people.
The tour director on our recent bus tour was French/Italian (but living in London) and on our long, boring journeys between tourist traps, he had some very interesting insights into the French mentality.
Firstly, their arrogance stems from centuries of deliberate effort on the part of the rulers (the various Louis's, Napoleon, etc.) to make France a great nation, via military action and propaganda.
The uselessness stems from a public 'service' system where being a civil servant had some prestige, and they were well paid and in the job for life. There was therefore no incentive to provide good service. The "system" was summed up nicely by a friend of the tour director who was from the former Soviet Union (or was that "Onion"?), who said, "your country is just like the USSR, except socialism works in your country".
(This was why he left France - he loves the country, but "the system" stinks.)



The US is a very good example of how to do things right - domestically I might add and it doesn't stop at retailers and distributors.
I wonder if that's because Mrka is very much driven by the almighty dollar, AND there is no guaranteed meal ticket? It seems very easy to get fired there, and their are many jobs in the 'service industry' that pay very low wages, and income is very much dependent on tips received for service provided.

[ManDownUnder]

or.. take it international ???
DON'T TAKE IT INTERNATIONAL!

THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!

DB - tell us where you work so we can chose to bring you custom - or not. You have voiced your opinions, aired your customer service ethic, and now, as always, the customers get to choose their supplier.

You still the big man?

[Max Headroom]

I've been following this thread with some interest. I've been involved in sales for almost 20 years as a sales rep/area manager selling industrial products, mainly bearings and transmission equipment. I went into sales with no prior experience other than a trade background. About 3 1/2 years ago I bought a service-based business employing 4 staff and dealing primarily with other businesses, with vitually no retail customers.

I now appreciate some of the challenges facing business owners.

My business' turnover has grown quite substantially, and we have added many new customers. That's good, right? Well, the downside is the cost of funding that growth by purchasing more product (almost 50% of our business is rentals-based) and bigger equipment to keep up. Yeah, I can hear you say that the growth should be funded out of the huge profits I'm enjoying, and to some extent it is, but my prices must remain reasonably competitive. I have no shortage of competitors...

I have very competent and loyal staff, and we have generated considerable loyalty from most of our customers too. But there are some new business opportunities I've turned down because I couldn't afford to carry the cost of purchasing additional rental stock. I'm also constantly aware of my cashflow, and it really hurts to have a customer go broke.

I'm also continually aware of the responsibility I have to my family for our financial future, and the sometimes delicate dynamic of employing relatives (I currently employ my son and daughter-in-law), as well as keeping our customers and suppliers and bank happy. This gig can be an emotional and financial rollercoaster.

I now have new-found respect for some of the employers I've worked for over the years. The pattern I've observed is that the folk who often have the most to say about how businesses should be run have never owned a business themselves. Not unlike the childcare books written by people who've never had kids of their own.....

my $0.02c

[Finn]

The pattern I've observed is that the folk who often have the most to say about how businesses should be run have never owned a business themselves.

Nice work Chandler.

I own 3 businesses - one employs 55 people. In our field, we are market leaders by a long shot. Our service and reputation is second to none. At great cost, I employ the best people I can find.

It's not rocket science. I left school (if you could call it that - I thought it was a place to make friends and eat lunch) at 15. So if a dumb arse like me can get the formula right, why can't other people do the same with the benefit of all those letters after their names?

[Fatjim]

maybe more dumb arses should get into business/

[vifferman]

So if a dumb arse like me can get the formula right, why can't other people do the same with the benefit of all those letters after their names?
I think you're being disingenuous, Mr Finn. It's obvious from many of your posts you're no dumbarse, but a very shrewd individual.
But in any case - it's not complicated. A lot of it boils down to treating people the way you'd like to be treated, and that in itself boils down to being honest. People would (usually) rather have the truth, even if it's not what they really want to hear, than be misled. And another important thing is doing what you say you will do; if you can't do something, don't say you can just so you look good, coz you look a hell of a lot worse when you don't meet promises.

[Brett]

Nice work Chandler.

I own 3 businesses - one employs 55 people. In our field, we are market leaders by a long shot. Our service and reputation is second to none. At great cost, I employ the best people I can find.

It's not rocket science. I left school (if you could call it that - I thought it was a place to make friends and eat lunch) at 15. So if a dumb arse like me can get the formula right, why can't other people do the same with the benefit of all those letters after their names?

Perhaps you have just alluded to one of the centers of the issue...education.

Perhaps, just speculating here, an entrepreneuer who starts out on his own with bugger all 'formal' education is a faster learner and puts new things he has learnt into practise than someone who has studied a subject and possibly been taught how to do something, and thus does not see other/better ways of going forward?

Nothing teaches better than loosing or earning your own money. And, of course, some people ornately understand the fundamentals of good business while others , no matter how learned, just never seem to get there and are a detriment to their own business.

[The Stranger]

And you still don't get it. Some people really are slow learners.

That's 20yrs of chasing kiddies around with candy treats and trying to extort money form them.

[ManDownUnder]

So if a dumb arse like me can get the formula right, why can't other people do the same with the benefit of all those letters after their names?

Never EVER confuse education for intelligence. Mate I've done an apprenticeship and I've done my degree. Both were as hard as each other - and the latter was no more use to me than getting me a job. The number of people leaving Uni with me that year scared the hell out of me... One guy approached me and asked if we could go into business together and my one (and only) question to him was if he would be willing to sweep the shop floor.

His answer confirmed it for me. He was too good for that... he wanted the money, not the work.

I believe he's currently enjoying time at the taxpayers expense for Fraud.

(snip)

[Tank]

So what area of retail are you in?



DB - tell us where you work so we can chose to bring you custom - or not. You have voiced your opinions, aired your customer service ethic, and now, as always, the customers get to choose their supplier.

You still the big man?

DB's is online, but yet again he does the DB 'thing' of coming into a thread, posting wild and weird comments without thought, knowledge of the subject, or reason, then simply backs out of the thread when someone questions or disagrees.

He is probably complaining to the mods at this very point. It would be better if he came and backed up his ramblings ....:rolleyes:

[nodrog]

That's 20yrs of chasing kiddies around with candy treats and trying to extort money form them.

oh so its a 'hello Kiddie' tee shirt hes wearing?



Don't knock Mr Whippy! Hell - you'd have to make sure there was diesel in the van, and enough mix in the machine... and some sprinkles too. It takes some planning!

not to mention doing stock take on all those hundreds and thousands.

[vifferman]

His answer confirmed it for me. He was too good for that... he wanted the money, not the work.
I suspect there's a lot of that - people not wanting to answer to anyone else, not wanting to do the 'shit' work, and wanting to make the big bucks. What percentage of businesses go bust in the first year? I can't recall, but it's VERY high (90%?). I bet a lot of that is to do with sucking too much money out, poor cash flow, etc. But I'd imagine a lot is also people who go into business for themselves just so no-one can tell them what to do, then piss off their customers because they don't like 'kowtowing' to them.

What's gonna happen when the current generation of teens become the workforce? They expect SO much for so little. Customer service will be fucked.

[buellbabe]

WOW! Finn, every post you have made I wanna give you green bling for. Totally agree with you. It AIN'T rocket science. Provide top notch service (to the best of your ability) and customers will keep coming back to your business and recommend it to other people.

And BTW I hope you rode up to that useless dealer on your new bike and rubbed it in their faces!

[merv]

Great thread Finn. I've been away for the last two weeks spending the second week staying at my Bro' in law's while I helped my daughter pack up her flat and move to Zurich. This story has nothing to do with my daughter.

What a week I observed. The Bro' in law has had a nice new house built. He arranged for a contractor to cut down some trees, guy arrives cuts half of one down leaving a complete mess on the ground, then fell off his ladder and broke his wrist and was not seen for the rest of the week. Other guys were coming to asphalt seal the driveway Tuesday, ah Wednesday - all week went by it never happened and weather was generally perfect for it. Thursday Bro' in law says can you be at the house to let the guy in to fit the fancy electric blind on the high hall window. I get a text from him later, ah don't worry they can't come now. So f... all happened all week and boy is he frustrated with NZ tradesman service.

I spent a lot of time in USA in the 80's and 90's and sure I loved that "certainly Sir, whatever I can do Sir" attitude. Even the way your breakfast was delivered and set out for you by room service at hotels was fanatastic to observe.

[Maha]

(ie somebody actually being able to fucken tell him when his shit will arrive)


Translation!.....The Business intellect of Kiwis is somewhat constipated at the moment?

In saying that...on the subject of Flooring/Carpet...
Their are other Manufactures that produce an equivalent product to thier competitors IE: if you are wanting a particluar carpet form say Cav/Brem and they cant produce it for whatever reason, then someone like Godfrey Hurst may be able to fill your needs, or any other Manufacturer for that matter.
I once had a customer that wanted a particular carpet, cos it siuted her dog!!
Now that took some handling.

[ManDownUnder]

I once had a customer that wanted a particular carpet, cos it siuted her dog!!


Shag-my-leg pile?

[The Stranger]

I once had a customer that wanted a particular carpet, cos it siuted her dog!!
Now that took some handling.

Easy.
Kill the mutt.

[Maha]

Shag-my-leg pile?

The real bastard is that, she chose off a shop sample, it had been in the for about 10 months, the dye batch had change in that time but the samples were not up to date, so the right Carpet was ordered but the all imortant colour was different. It took my experiance as an installer for over 25 years to calm her and get her the right Carpet...for her and her Dog.

All good things come to those who wait.


Easy.
Kill the mutt.


The irony is.....the dog died about 6 months after...:2thumbsup opps I mean:weep:

[vifferman]

The irony is.....the dog died about 6 months after...:2thumbsup opps I mean:weep:
Your carpet killed it, dinnit?

[Swoop]

I left school (if you could call it that - I thought it was a place to make friends and eat lunch) at 15.
Reading about a "resonably successful" businessman who declares he "voluntarily dis-enrolled in the education system" to make his money...

[Finn]

In saying that...on the subject of Flooring/Carpet...
Their are other Manufactures that produce an equivalent product to thier competitors IE: if you are wanting a particluar carpet form say Cav/Brem and they cant produce it for whatever reason, then someone like Godfrey Hurst may be able to fill your needs, or any other Manufacturer for that matter.
I once had a customer that wanted a particular carpet, cos it siuted her dog!!
Now that took some handling.

This is a custom coloured carpet that I paid a deposit on.

[RantyDave]

So if a dumb arse like me can get the formula right, why can't other people do the same with the benefit of all those letters after their names?
You really want to know? It's to do with opportunity cost.

As a school leaver at 15 you have nothing to lose. It's "make my own company and maybe become unspeakably rich" vs "become DangerousBastard" so you might as well give it a crack. Had you gone off to university then it the consideration would have been "make my own company and maybe become unspeakably rich" vs "get a respectable job with a nice clear career path in whatever field it was I studied" so you'd be less inclined to take the risky route.

Of course, as time gets on the proposal gets worse until you eventually get to the position that potential founders of tech companies in Wellington get i.e. "make my own company and maybe become unspeakably rich" vs "contract out to the government doing some awful .net shit and make $100/hr for no risk whatsoever" in which case you'd need to be either (over) confident of success or completely barking mad to start a new company.

BTW, what happens in practice is that the $100/hr bunnies become certain they are the shit, head off to form companies being vastly over confident, lose momentum (and about a hundred grand) before the company gains any traction at all and limp back to .net contracting once they're over their Ruby on Rails infatuation. The interesting conclusion of this is that the best thing we can do for Wellington's tech community would be to teach the government to stop spending vast quantities of money on badly run technology projects, but I digress.

Dave

[Mom]

This is a custom coloured carpet that I paid a deposit on.

There really is no excuse for them running out of yarn. They would have known how much they needed to make your specific job, they should have checked and ammended their eta to reflect the fact they needed to get more in before you paid the deposit.

The instance Maha talks about was very embarrasing for us. The rep made monthly visits to the showroom to update samples, so our samples should have been right. We sold the colour in good faith off the sample, then received a totally different colour. The sample numbers were the same, the carpet was pink not brown. This company tried to wriggle out of replacement, so not only did we have the dog to rematch another colour to :wacko: we had to get them to come to the party as well.

Maha sorted the nut bar client, I got the supplier to credit the wrong colour carpet, and replace it including the time that I had paid my staff to start the job with the incorrect carpet. All this because a rep did not do his job properly.

[Finn]

Reading about a "resonably successful" businessman who declares he "voluntarily dis-enrolled in the education system" to make his money...

I didn't have a choice but had I, probably would of gone to Uni just for the chicks. But I knew at a very young age that spoon fed education won't get you very far.

A couple of my mates have MBA's and both work at dysfunctional corporates as CEO's. I'm amazed at the decisions they make and was in fact involved in a tender with one of them. We pulled out because they were basically stupid and wrote a 10 pages letter addressing the risks they were putting the business under. They didn't listen because they don't really care about the company they work for and sure enough, our prediction came true. Disaster.

One thing I have learnt about MBA's is that it teaches you to only look after yourself. Screw the company and shareholders and whats a customer again?

[Gremlin]

What's gonna happen when the current generation of teens become the workforce? They expect SO much for so little. Customer service will be fucked.
Already had it with a couple of potential staff...

One was completely generation I (forget Y, its I). He decided IT was a glory job, despite not knowing how to use Outlook (webmail aye?) with great working conditions etc.

Fast forward a month, time spent explaining group policies and writing pages of documentation down (helps you understand how the networks are put together as well) and suddenly, the job wasn't what he had in mind.

The real difference is that uni brainwashes them into thinking 1, they're THE shit, 2, with the degree, they can walk into a cushy job with little work. Everybody older knows that your first job was a slog, you had at least got your foot into the industry, and you started from the bottom.

Uni... pfff... my degree is a flash bit of paper, they taught just about zero stuff I use day to day, all the programming languages aren't used, and I have taught myself others that are more practical.

[Finn]

Update:

It appeared my day was going remarkably well until... visited the site to check on progress and noticed the door on my covered trailer was ajar. $2500 worth of dirt bike gear gone.

Nice. I mean who would steal stinky dirt bike gear? Thankfully the thief doesn't like fishing.

[Tank]

Update:

It appeared my day was going remarkably well until... visited the site to check on progress and noticed the door on my covered trailer was ajar. $2500 worth of dirt bike gear gone.

Nice. I mean who would steal stinky dirt bike gear? Thankfully the thief doesn't like fishing.

ohh bugger - sorry to hear that Finn.

[Finn]

ohh bugger - sorry to hear that Finn.

Water off a ducks back. I'm just focusing on getting the house ready for this Friday. Insurance will cover this and I sold my dirt bike 12 months ago.

[Tank]

For all you guys that say Uni is a waste of time - perhaps you just didnt have the brains to get the right degree!!!!

http://www.mcdonalds.com/corp/career/hamburger_university.html

You want fries with that?

[Finn]

For all you guys that say Uni is a waste of time - perhaps you just didnt have the brains to get the right degree!!!!

http://www.mcdonalds.com/corp/career/hamburger_university.html

You want fries with that?

I looked at the financial results of McDonalds once and it became abundantly clear that they are in fact NOT a fast food giant. Their MO is real estate. Shitty burgers just pay for it.

[imdying]

The real bastard is that, she chose off a shop sample, it had been in the for about 10 months, the dye batch had change in that time but the samples were not up to date, so the right Carpet was ordered but the all imortant colour was different. It took my experiance as an installer for over 25 years to calm her and get her the right Carpet...for her and her Dog.Wouldn't her carpet look the same as the sample in 10 months though? :confused:

[Maha]

This is a custom coloured carpet that I paid a deposit on.

Salle' Carpet???
I thought they could only afford that in Paratai Dr?...

[Finn]

Salle' Carpet???
I thought they could only afford that in Paratai Dr?...

Bingo. I'm not being a posh prick but that's what was in the place so I'm replacing it with identical. It's all added to the claim.

[Mom]

Wouldn't her carpet look the same as the sample in 10 months though? :confused:

You would have thought as per normal exposure to UV but no. The company had actually changed the colour (not the name of the sample mind). It went from being a light beige brown, to a marked pinky hue. Totally different.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Zacly. If ya don't like it, then go buy it elsewhere and quit ya whining.

If you want a package with everything in the same box,then go buy one. You will pay double the price, but you get one or the other - NOT BOTH.

I've been in retail for 20 years, and I tried fucken hard but I STILL get some moaning bitch every week who wants this for free, or fucken that for free, or wants to crunch some three-for-one deal into a fucken FIVE-for-one deal! I do not think so.

Consumers need to understand something: If you want retailers to suck your cock, then you have to PAY THEM A LOT MORE THAN RETAIL PRICE. If you don't like it, then go to the back of the queue. NEXT! We have more to do looking after people who PAY WELL, than those who want everything for nothing. We are here to MAKE MONEY, not kiss your ass.

Steve

presumably with that attitude, you're rolling in money and your customers love you.

[Finn]

presumably with that attitude, you're rolling in money and your customers love you.

He's got 100's of 1000's.

[Tank]

He's got 100's of 1000's.

To hell with running businesses - you should be doing stand up comedy!

That was priceless.

[BarBender]

Attended the EY Entreprenaur of the Year Awards a month or so back where the Overall winner was Michael Hill….Jeweller

Pure intellect wasn’t an attribute that stuck out.
However a few things the category winners had in common that I observed were tenacity (ability to see opportuniity in the bad times), real world experience (all bar one had experienced the ‘87 crash and downturn in 91), commercial savvy (gained by experience of learning quickly and acting on it), a love for closing the deal and personal and professional support from immediate family and networks they had surrounded themselves with.

Service as I interpreted it didn’t stand out. But something that did and which most touched on was that they cared and were passionate about what they did and thankful that they were still doing it….

And while it wasnt said...most of the catergory winners seemed to have buckletloads of common sense


Obviously different ends of the spectrun between carpet and retail/supermarket jewellery aimed specifically at the middle class...but all of finalists I saw that night started with nothing except the shirts on their backs, their values and ambition.

Maybe we make it too easy for the wrong people to get into business in the first place.

[MadDuck]

Probably not relevant to the thread but I observed today....

We have a new supplier providing a new range in stores Nationwide, came in to train the staff today as this particular product is in the mail and TV promotions coming up next month.

I was kind of gobsmacked when the supplier said oh well you wont have any to sell to customers because the shipment on the water is already sold to stores....:blink:

So our poor staff are going to be asked for this product as its in the promotions and a new display is right in the front door but we cant get stock!!!! And if they are asked when they can get this....well no win situation for the staff.

[Brett]

Zacly. If ya don't like it, then go buy it elsewhere and quit ya whining.

If you want a package with everything in the same box,then go buy one. You will pay double the price, but you get one or the other - NOT BOTH.

I've been in retail for 20 years, and I tried fucken hard but I STILL get some moaning bitch every week who wants this for free, or fucken that for free, or wants to crunch some three-for-one deal into a fucken FIVE-for-one deal! I do not think so.

Consumers need to understand something: If you want retailers to suck your cock, then you have to PAY THEM A LOT MORE THAN RETAIL PRICE. If you don't like it, then go to the back of the queue. NEXT! We have more to do looking after people who PAY WELL, than those who want everything for nothing. We are here to MAKE MONEY, not kiss your ass.

Steve

Really... I MEAN REALLY??

With that sort of mindset, you must really struggle with sales sometimes...half the fun of wheeling and dealing in business is the haggling. I love it, whether I am selling or buying, negotiation contract or just buying some goods from a retailer, I love the thrill of it. I never pay retail (within reason, groceries etc.).
A few times I have met retailers/salesman who flat dead refuse to negotiate, talk turkey if you will, I have promptly turned on my heel and walked out. Not because I am a tight arse, but because it simply tells me that they do not consider me a serious customer, and to be honest it kills the fun for me.
That said, I like to walk away feeling that both parties benefited. No one likes to feel thazt they have just ripped someones guts out.

[Gremlin]

That said, I like to walk away feeling that both parties benefited. No one likes to feel thazt they have just ripped someones guts out.
mmm perhaps you haven't dealt with enough big business... there are some out there that will screw/wring the price to the very bottom dollar. Sure, few and far between... but they do exist (and generally not a customer for long) :rolleyes:

On the whole, most are good businesses tho...

[Lucy]

. Not unlike the childcare books written by people who've never had kids of their own.....

my $0.02c

Please, name one. I'd love to read it.

[Max Headroom]

Please, name one. I'd love to read it.

We had one such book on the shelf for a long time which we purchased after our son was born 23 years ago. Unfortunately I can't lay my hands on it right now. It was written by an Aussie clinical psychologist (surname Green???)who wrote in his preamble something to the effect of "my apologies to those who took my previous advice prior to my having two sons of my own." He then went on to explain the paradigm shift his two kids had effected for him, along with new-found respect for parents he had previously held low regard for.

His earlier approach had been more rigid, and regarded child-rearing in a similar vein to raising a pet animal. And *perhaps* there are *some* parallels.......:innocent: but his subsequent publication acknowledged that a different approach was preferable!

[buellbabe]

OK its my turn to have a whinge.
A month ago I took my bike into the shop so that they could remove the shock and send it to the shock dude to fix (under warranty) and cos he said it would be a couple of weeks I asked the shop to warrant the bike while they had it (at that point it was due in a months time). All good except I needed a new front tyre, no worries, chuck one on says I.

Well the shock repair took a MONTH and if it weren’t for the fact that I have ‘done a deal’ over a mates Firebolt I would have bikeless all this time...but I digress.

The shock was at the bike shop yesterday and I reminded them about the tyre...the response was "oh yeah..."

The bike shop rings me just now to say that they have to order the tyre in and they don’t know if it will be here by tomorrow which is when I have arranged to pick the bike up...

WTF??????????

They knew a FULL MONTH AGO that the tyre was needed. Plus NOW they are saying that my rear is only just warrantable... HUH?

I am gobsmacked.

Anyway I did some phoning around and have purchased a set for $499 form the friendly helpful people at Cycletreads (Barrys Pt Rd). Kudos to Paula, the very efficient staff member who sorted it all for me and has guaranteed delivery to the R&S no later than midday tomorrow.

[vifferman]

OK its my turn to have a whinge.
Woah... an actual bike-related post. :blank:
They're just way too casual. Judging from posts I read on UK and US biker forums, I don't think it's a kiwi thing so much as a bike-shop thing. I can understand the "coupla weeks" for the shock stretching into four, as they probably didn't check with the shock guy, it's dependent on parts availability, blah blah, but it sounds like they run a pretty sloppy shop. How hard would, "Oh - it needs a new tyre - I'll just check we've actually got one... No - I'll order one right now!" be?

[buellbabe]

Well guess what???? The saga continues (all on the phone!).

Further to my above post...when R&S realised I had gone elsewhere for the tyres SUDDENLY they had a deal on the Pirellis I previously couldn’t afford and are now matching Cycletreads price.

So rather sheepishly I talked to Paula, and cancelled my order. She said “no worries”. I told her I had sung her praises on KB and she was chuffed :-)

And that folks...is how its done LOL.

[Lucy]

We had one such book on the shelf for a long time which we purchased after our son was born 23 years ago. !


Good God, that's unbelievable. I thought the original post was hyperbole.

I think I'm going to go write a 'how to succeed at mountain climbing and car racing book' in that case.....

[nodrog]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JfMCBh1sJQ

[ManDownUnder]

That's some in depth buyer behaviour analysis right there! Pointless on KB ... no use to use mere mortals...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JfMCBh1sJQ

[Mikkel]

Nice thread.


The US is a very good example of how to do things right - domestically I might add and it doesn't stop at retailers and distributors. My brother & I were leaving his house just outside San Fran for a few weeks and had to pop into the local municipal office (Council, police and other public SERVICES in one office - well duh NZ) to pay vehicle reg. A cop overheard us say we were overseas for 3 weeks and asked where we lived. We told him and he said he'd keep an eye on the place for us and even asked what day / time we were coming back. 3 weeks later we arrived and within the hour there was a knock on the door. "Everything okay sir?"

Another example this morning. I had a breakfast meeting with a supplier that has let me down in my business (funny that) and parked in a Wilson parking building. Upon leaving, the machine wouldn't accept my credit card. Out of service. I call the number, it says "Our office hours are 8:00am bla, bla. It was 8:50. I tried for 15 more minutes to make contact then broke the barrier.

That story from the US is exceptional! I must say I enjoyed the short time I've spent state-side as well. Although I must disagree - the way they handle public services is archaic, perhaps not as archaic as here in NZ, but still very far from how it's done in Denmark. (at least that was the case on Hawaii, it may vary from state to state)

As for Wilson's Parking - scum of the earth! I'll never use one of their parking lots ever.


Of course, as time gets on the proposal gets worse until you eventually get to the position that potential founders of tech companies in Wellington get i.e. "make my own company and maybe become unspeakably rich" vs "contract out to the government doing some awful .net shit and make $100/hr for no risk whatsoever" in which case you'd need to be either (over) confident of success or completely barking mad to start a new company.

Being paid by the hour is not exactly what I'd consider a solid position. If you were in that situation and had a good idea for a business model it would make perfect sense to develop said model besides whatever contracting you'd manage to secure.

Now, if you had a secure position with a $100,000+ salary a year. Indeed why would you bother? Unless of course starting new businesses is your hobby.


The real difference is that uni brainwashes them into thinking 1, they're THE shit, 2, with the degree, they can walk into a cushy job with little work. Everybody older knows that your first job was a slog, you had at least got your foot into the industry, and you started from the bottom.

Uni... pfff... my degree is a flash bit of paper, they taught just about zero stuff I use day to day, all the programming languages aren't used, and I have taught myself others that are more practical.

Obviously the university you attended was quite a bit different from the ones I've been involved with. There has certainly not been any pep-talking or attempts at elevating our self-esteem. If anything there has been a few lecturers here and there who enjoyed making us feel stupid and worthless.

But then again, if you're going to uni because you want to become rich you're wasting time. There are faster and better ways to make a fortune than reading books. However, if you wouldn't mind having a lot of opportunities and the chance to work with something interesting of your own choosing a university degree is not a bad idea. ...especially if you can get it for free!


Maybe we make it too easy for the wrong people to get into business in the first place.

How can you make it too easy for people to get into business? I mean, you want MORE red tape? :shit:
To start a business you need capital, you are not very likely to secure that capital without a sound business model. As such we can only really change the amount of bureaucratic hum-ho associated with getting something started.

[Usarka]

Just had an NZ customer service experience with a major bank... I won't name it but it's the one with that's milked it's annoying ads for far too long.

Friday - we need your credit card sir for security reasons (some card #'s stolen in USA). We'll upgrade your card and some one will call on Monday. OK, but I need it next week. Yep no problem. LIE

Of course no one phoned monday.

Tuesday I was told it was on its way to the branch :killingme LIE

Today I'm told it takes 10 working days and the application has just been processed. LIE?

It's not like i NEED it tomorrow to pay for a car repair.

Thanks :niceone:

[rphenix]

Company I work for has an office in melbourne went over there to assist with rennovations. I organised things months in advance with specific date/time contractors would turn up, allowing extra time for screw ups.

Some of the tradesmen would turn up the next day (and even then late) only after you have phoned about every 30 minutes asking where they are as they are holding up other tradesmen they all acted as if they were doing us a favour we are the fricken client!

I couldnt wait to get back to NZ :) Although bikes parking on the footpath without parking wardens ticketing you is pretty neat :) Auckland could learn something there.

[Mom]

Just had an NZ customer service experience with a major bank... I won't name it but it's the one with that's milked it's annoying ads for far too long.

Friday - we need your credit card sir for security reasons (some card #'s stolen in USA). We'll upgrade your card and some one will call on Monday. OK, but I need it next week. Yep no problem. LIE

Of course no one phoned monday.

Tuesday I was told it was on its way to the branch :killingme LIE

Today I'm told it takes 10 working days and the application has just been processed. LIE?

It's not like i NEED it tomorrow to pay for a car repair.

Thanks :niceone:


You're a Kiwibank customer eh?

[vifferman]

Just had an NZ customer service experience with a major bank...
Friday - we need your credit card sir for security reasons (some card #'s stolen in USA).
Our bank contacted us for the same reason, but when I phoned to see what the story was, she said I could hang onto (and keep using) my card unless there was a problem. We'd been back from the US for a few months, so I thought the security risk was low. Customer service? Excellent. :niceone:

[scracha]

Sorry about your predicament Finn but maybe it's more of a problem in the main centres as I'd have to disagree with you based on my own experience of the last 3 or 4 years since we prepared to live in Coromandel full time.

You're jokin aintchya Jeff? Spoke to 6 garages up your end of the Coro (2 mobile)about checking out a vehicle in Coro town. Told them that of course I'd pay mileage and for their time up front. 1 said too busy, 1 said they couldn't do it for 3 weeks. Fair enough. Of the other 4, typical response was "I'll call you in 10 minutes" or "will speak to the boss". NONE of them called me back. I mean like...WTF?

Good tradesmen around here are like gold-dust. When they're found everybody uses them so they're really really busy. I hate to say it but the majority are utterly hopeless when it comes to customer service.

[BarBender]

How can you make it too easy for people to get into business? I mean, you want MORE red tape? :shit:
To start a business you need capital, you are not very likely to secure that capital without a sound business model. As such we can only really change the amount of bureaucratic hum-ho associated with getting something started.

With our unsuccessful start up track record in the back of my mind - I guess Im wondering if the qualities and skills that make successful business people (and their businesses), are considered when people line up to start up...AND...if the right support is provided to help businesses gain/maintain those knowledge and skills.

Just my thoughts but to use your example - a 'sound' business model (if thats the criteria) - shouldnt be enough. Business models should be bloody awesome!! If we're talking about service - then models should show a stronger connection between product and service to deliver value to both the stakeholders and customer to maintain profit streams. As a customer I dont see any value coming my way.

Agree with you - No thanks to the red tape. But I dont think it should be dead easy for people to start up a business. Maybe its about the process being a little sharper at the lending stage.

However after reading Ursaka's experience - if Banks cant get retail right, I doubt their commercial acumen to be able to assess business ventures, let alone their ability and loyalty to support them.

[Brian d marge]

I dread using Kiwi Engineering shops , BUT the ones I do I like such as F1 Engineering , ( always does what he says )

I look for;

1. Komunikashun
2. densou, renraku, dentatsu, tsuushin, koutsuu
3 speek 2 mi bro
4. TXT mi M8
5 Good afternoon , may I speak to a Mr D Marge please


not many can do that.


Stephen

ps cant change the font sorry

[Delerium]

Already had it with a couple of potential staff...

One was completely generation I (forget Y, its I). He decided IT was a glory job, despite not knowing how to use Outlook (webmail aye?) with great working conditions etc.

Fast forward a month, time spent explaining group policies and writing pages of documentation down (helps you understand how the networks are put together as well) and suddenly, the job wasn't what he had in mind.

The real difference is that uni brainwashes them into thinking 1, they're THE shit, 2, with the degree, they can walk into a cushy job with little work. Everybody older knows that your first job was a slog, you had at least got your foot into the industry, and you started from the bottom.

Uni... pfff... my degree is a flash bit of paper, they taught just about zero stuff I use day to day, all the programming languages aren't used, and I have taught myself others that are more practical.

Not all of us think that. I did 7.5 years in the air force, before deciding the mangement couldnt manage. Im finishing my degree at 26 so I can have more doors open up for me. Im now working as a delivery driver untill the end of the year when I will start to wear a uniform of a different color. I know how to work.

[Usarka]

You're a Kiwibank customer eh?

Oh, ummm no the other bank with the annoying ads.

Or maybe it's just me. :2guns:

[Mikkel]

With our unsuccessful start up track record in the back of my mind - I guess Im wondering if the qualities and skills that make successful business people (and their businesses), are considered when people line up to start up...AND...if the right support is provided to help businesses gain/maintain those knowledge and skills.

Just my thoughts but to use your example - a 'sound' business model (if thats the criteria) - shouldnt be enough. Business models should be bloody awesome!! If we're talking about service - then models should show a stronger connection between product and service to deliver value to both the stakeholders and customer to maintain profit streams. As a customer I dont see any value coming my way.

As it is getting the capital is the hardest part. If you can not convince anyone to invest money in a business venture it'll never get off the ground.
I can hardly see how willingness to invest in a business that you believe in can ever be a bad thing. Some things work and others don't. Neither is timing unimportant. If you can convince somebody, or decides to use your own money, to invest in a business I can not for the life of me see why a 3rd party should have any say in that matter.

You'd hope however that whoever chooses to invest capital in such ventures are both critical and competent in evaluating forthcoming business propositions.

[marty]

What amuses me at the moment, are the number of companies that are strugging to survive and blame our current economic climate.

The fact that they are ineffecient and poorly managed obviously does not come into it.

here's a good one for you.

2 weeks ago I contacted about 7 tyre suppliers to re-tyre my ute. $1200 plus wheel alignment all up.

I went with Beaurepairs in Frankton Hamilton. 'They'll be a few days - have to come from Auckland'. No problem with me - was convenient to wait a few days.

I call in the morning to confirm, then take the afternoon off and go in. I get there to see some 80/20 off road tyres (Dueller 604's), when I specifically stated 100% road (Dueller 683's), and they said that they had the 683's there. He tried to convince me that they were OK, but fuck off, they're majorly different. 'But we got them in specially for you' he said. 'Too bad - they're wrong. don 't call me I'll call you'

So I then contact AH Franks in Hamilton - same request. Last Thurs they apparantley order 4 donuts for me - I carefully arrange fitting at 3pm on Thursday (today), and make chase up calls. they arrived monday (apparantley)

imagine my surprise when I get there at 3.10pm today, only to be told they 'can't find the tyres - they must have been mistakenly put back on the truck to Christchurch - I'll just call to check'

2 minutes later they come out of the office - 'yup, they're in Chch - they'll be back here in 3 days'.

fuck off - you never ordered them you useless cumstain.

fuck i am pissed off.

[marty]

Please, name one. I'd love to read it.

there's plenty of legislation signed off by Aunty Helen

[BarBender]

I can hardly see how willingness to invest in a business that you believe in can ever be a bad thing.
But in most cases, it just isnt enough...You need other ingredients as well to ensure good customer service happens throughout the business and on the frontline.


If you can convince somebody, or decides to use your own money, to invest in a business I can not for the life of me see why a 3rd party should have any say in that matter.
If you can convince someone else and its your own money, I dont see why you would need a third party either...
Lets hope then they know what they're doing. Either way a third party is going to get involved further down the track in the form of a customer...




You'd hope however that whoever chooses to invest capital in such ventures are both critical and competent in evaluating forthcoming business propositions.
Yep - Totally agree there...and perhaps part of that evaluation is determining whether the proposed 'service ethic' within the business they're putting money into will contribute to bottom line coin and ROI.

[Lucy]

there's plenty of legislation signed off by Aunty Helen

Not a child rearing book though.

[Lucy]

I have an idea about why so many small businesses are slack at customer service, could be wrong, it's just a theory.....

In this country we are so damn snobby about service and retail jobs, that no-one does them as a career (very few anyway). They are seen as holiday jobs or fill in jobs. I've moved to a small town and have two part time jobs that people who knew me before in Auckland and Wellington are surprised that I'm doing them, but here I am lucky to have them, and I actually quite like them. But anyway, because we don't have the respect for those jobs, we either don't do them, or we do them begrudgingly because it's a stopgap, or we start a business (motorbike shop for example) because we love bikes, but we hate dealing with the customers, OR, we have staff and don't work there ourselves, and the staff don't have a vested interest in the business and often hate working there and so the service is crap and on and on the vicious circle goes.

And in the last few years of low unemployment, it's got even worse. I was in a cafe a few years ago with someone who was complaining about needing a job, I pointed to the 'help wanted' sign on the counter, and got a 'don't be ridiculous' slap.

[Kickaha]

I went with Beaurepairs in Frankton Hamilton. 'They'll be a few days - have to come from Auckland'. No problem with me - was convenient to wait a few days.

I call in the morning to confirm, then take the afternoon off and go in. I get there to see some 80/20 off road tyres (Dueller 604's), when I specifically stated 100% road (Dueller 683's), and they said that they had the 683's there. He tried to convince me that they were OK, but fuck off, they're majorly different. 'But we got them in specially for you' he said. 'Too bad - they're wrong. don 't call me I'll call you'

Why would you go to Beaurepairs to buy Bridgestone?

Bridgestone are he parent company of Firestone so their branches are more likely to have them in stock and do a better deal

[marty]

Why would you go to Beaurepairs to buy Bridgestone?

Bridgestone are he parent company of Firestone so their branches are more likely to have them in stock and do a better deal

i get staff discount at beaurepairs. well i would if they actually had the tyres there!

apparantley 255/70/16 is an unusual size, even though they are standard fit for a Navara

[Badjelly]

Oh, ummm no the other bank with the annoying ads.

You need to narrow it down further mate.

You don't mean the Goldstein bank do you? :gob:

[jrandom]

Consumers need to understand something: If you want retailers to suck your cock, then you have to PAY THEM A LOT MORE THAN RETAIL PRICE. If you don't like it, then go to the back of the queue. NEXT! We have more to do looking after people who PAY WELL, than those who want everything for nothing. We are here to MAKE MONEY, not kiss your ass.

Would you care to comment on how your long years of experience as a Mr Whippy driver have led you to form those opinions?

:sherlock:

[The Stranger]

Would you care to comment on how your long years of experience as a Mr Whippy driver have led you to form those opinions?

:sherlock:

Yes, I see where you are going, one wonders how DB became an authority on cock sucking and arse kissing customers when those customers are little kiddies.

I think there is public safety issue at stake here.

[The Stranger]

You need to narrow it down further mate.

You don't mean the Goldstein bank do you? :gob:

Fucking animals!!!

Animals were cute until Telecom beat us to death with them over a 10yr period.

That fucken horse is the last straw. The sooner we destroy their habitats and drive the lot of them to extinction the less bloody animal adds the better.

[Mikkel]

But in most cases, it just isnt enough...You need other ingredients as well to ensure good customer service happens throughout the business and on the frontline.

Oh, I wasn't even thinking about customer care in the above post. It was only a reaction to the "it ought to be harder to start up a new business" comments further back.

Customer service usually isn't an issue in very small companies. If you're dealing with the owner of a company I doubt you'll get a shitty treatment.
Customer care and logistics would be growing pains for a successful business in the expanding phase I would expect. The problem arises when you go looking for employees at the lowest possible wage - you're likely to pickup a few lackluster incompetents who don't give a shit about anything but their salary and coffee-breaks.

[Swoop]

That fucken horse is the last straw. The sooner we destroy their habitats and drive the lot of them to extinction the less bloody animal adds the better.
Hopefully it will have the added benefit of getting horse-float trailers off of the roads.
A horse is a form of transport. Ride the bastards, don't drag them behind a pajero!

[marty]

AH Franks have just come to the party with a very good deal to see me back there. The boss man just called me and sorted it out.

There's hope at last.

[Blackbird]

You're jokin aintchya Jeff? Spoke to 6 garages up your end of the Coro (2 mobile)about checking out a vehicle in Coro town. Told them that of course I'd pay mileage and for their time up front. 1 said too busy, 1 said they couldn't do it for 3 weeks. Fair enough. Of the other 4, typical response was "I'll call you in 10 minutes" or "will speak to the boss". NONE of them called me back. I mean like...WTF?

Good tradesmen around here are like gold-dust. When they're found everybody uses them so they're really really busy. I hate to say it but the majority are utterly hopeless when it comes to customer service.

Not joking but you're not getting any service because no-one can understand your accent:innocent:

[Max Preload]

If ya don't like it, then go buy it elsewhere and quit ya whining.

I did go somewhere else, but discovered they're all much the same. Now, whenever possible, I go direct overseas where they generally know what service & supply chain logistics are. Of course, then the local crooks and 'buy NZ made' fucktards start bleating about that 'ruining their business'. Funny thing is, they're ruining their own businesses through their indifference to the needs of the customer.


If you want a package with everything in the same box,then go buy one. You will pay double the price, but you get one or the other - NOT BOTH.

What? :wacko:


I've been in retail for 20 years, and I tried fucken hard but I STILL get some moaning bitch every week who wants this for free, or fucken that for free, or wants to crunch some three-for-one deal into a fucken FIVE-for-one deal! I do not think so.

So, politely say so. I reserve the right to barter.


Consumers need to understand something: If you want retailers to suck your cock, then you have to PAY THEM A LOT MORE THAN RETAIL PRICE. If you don't like it, then go to the back of the queue. NEXT! We have more to do looking after people who PAY WELL, than those who want everything for nothing. We are here to MAKE MONEY, not kiss your ass.

How much must we pay for them to just do their fucking job properly? If they put as much effort into doing their job as they do into avoiding doing their job, there would be no issue.