"Driver didn't see bike" x2

[Naki Rat]

Not a good weekend for some riders in the Naki but good to see blame apportioned to where it seems to fit. Bike Crashes Prompt Appeal (http://www.stuff.co.nz/dailynews/4785425a6002.html)

Taranaki certainly turned on a brilliant day for the BRONZ Round Mt. Egmont toy run (http://www.stuff.co.nz/dailynews/4785311a6554.html) :scooter:

[Swoop]

Every year, around this time...............

[pritch]

I'm not totally happy with the way the idiots who pulled out in front of a bike or did a u turn are repeatedly referred to as "the gentleman".

They aren't gentlemen, they are dopey bastards. Dangerous dopey bastards at that.

[CookMySock]

<img src="http://www.ssyso.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=1420&g2_serialNumber=2">

So do something about the problem and fit a brighter headlight, and use the bitch like a weapon.

http://www.ssyso.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=406

Steve

[Sparrowhawk]

So do something about the problem and fit a brighter headlight, and use the bitch like a weapon.

I hear what you're saying DB, but if they don't look, it doesn't matter how bright your high beams are, or what colour gear/helmet you're wearing etc.

The dumb buggers just think that their mirrors are there to be shiny, and cbf looking over their shoulders.

[CookMySock]

I hear what you're saying DB, but if they don't look, it doesn't matter how bright your high beams are, or what colour gear/helmet you're wearing etc.Nah it doesn't work like that. HIDs are mad fucking bright, and are well into the "what the fuck is that?" category. They stab ya in the eye, and turn a peripheral vision detect into a concious detect. They are abundantly clear to all and sundry to GTFO the way. Works good! Get some! Dip them when riding with ya mates, or else go up front and literally blaze a clear path.

Steve

[Squiggles]

Nah it doesn't work like that. HIDs are mad fucking bright, and are well into the "what the fuck is that?" category. They stab ya in the eye, and turn a peripheral vision detect into a concious detect. They are abundantly clear to all and sundry to GTFO the way. Works good! Get some! Dip them when riding with ya mates, or else go up front and literally blaze a clear path.

Wont do sfa for the drivers who rock up to make a Right turn across your path and only look left...

Are you excusing their lack of vision & skill by saying we should have brighter lights?

[Duke girl]

What is it with cage drivers not seeing motorcyclists coming towards them when most of us drive with our headlights on. It seems of late that cage drivers have been the cause of motorcycle accidents in the last couple of weeks, with doing u turns in front of them. Maybe the should think about making cage drivers do a course on driving with motorcyclists around them so that they get it into their heads that the roads are not only made for them to use but also for motorcyclists as well. Every weekend seems to be the same: Motorcyclist hit by car driver who didnt seem them!!!!!!!!!!!!.

[madbikeboy]

I'm a self obsessed c*nt who rides around everywhere with fulls (and better bulbs than stock).

Each time I get stopped, the conversation goes something like:

"Did you know that you're on fullbeams?"

"Really officer, maybe that's why less numpties in cars are pulling out in front of me?"

"Well, it's a distraction to other drivers"

"Okay, so long as the car drivers aren't endangered in any way, I'll just turn them down to normal and wait for the next idiot who didn't see me"...

[MyGSXF]

Two things are going on here..

"Motion Camouflage".. & "The Looming Effect"

Motion Camouflage: When a bike can effectively become invisible to the driver waiting to pull out. The drivers eyes are fooled into believing a moving object is stationary! When a rider travels down a line that extends from a fixed point behind the bike directly to the eye of a driver waiting at the junction ahead. The rider's size does not appear to increase as they travel down this line & so they blend in to the background! As a result, the driver is not alerted to the presence of the bike because his brain is scanning for movement. Finally as the bike nears the car, an effect called "looming" occurs - which is where the bike suddenly grows in size, destroying the motion camouflage and becoming visible to the driver. But a natural response to looming means the drivers are momentarily frozen the the spot

Looming Effect: is the perceived rapid increase in the size of an object as it gets closer to an observer. It is our primary method for assessing whether something will collide with us or not. Looming works on the part of the brain's visual cortex that uses 'edge detection' to alert it to the presence of movement. If the edges of an object - such as a bike moving down a street - cannot be detected, then no alert is triggered.

Looming is a key factor in the 'flight or fight' response mechanism of animals. The decision to flight or flee is preceded by a momentary 'freeze' phase, while the brain flips a coin and prepares the body for whichever action it will take.

It is looming that suddenly reveals the bike to a motorists stunned eyes, as it grows in size and triggers the alarms in the visual cortex.

The looming effect is probably what freezes them to the spot with a rabbit-in-the-headlights look of horror once they spot the bike! :eek5:

Comes from notes given at an advanced rider training course! :niceone:

[Goblin]

So do something about the problem and fit a brighter headlight, and use the bitch like a weapon.
SteveDoesn't matter how big or bright your light is, some people just DONT LOOK! Dopey drivers will pull out into the path of trucks and even trains! Blinding all other motorists is NOT going to make you safer!

[Squiggles]

Motion Camouflage: When a bike can effectively become invisible to the driver waiting to pull out. The drivers eyes are fooled into believing a moving object is stationary! When a rider travels down a line that extends from a fixed point behind the bike directly to the eye of a driver waiting at the junction ahead. The rider's size does not appear to increase as they travel down this line & so the blend in to the background! As a result, the driver is not alerted to the presence of the bike because his brain is scanning for movement

Ill blame that for why i can never seem to hold my line on a straight road... (not because im a muppet ;))

[MyGSXF]

it doesn't matter how bright your high beams are, or what colour gear/helmet you're wearing etc.

I have learned from all the rider training courses I have done, that we need to make ourselves as VISIBLE as possible!! Wear a brightly coloured helmet, put some reflective stickers on it for extra night time visibility. Ride with headlight on. Wear coloured gear.. & better yet, a brightly coloured vest! All these things add together to break that motion camouflage effect! They will draw the drivers eyes to us like a magnet!! :shit:

Biking is about riding.. enjoying the ride.. & staying ALIVE!! Anything we can do to promote that.. is all good! :Punk:

[Swoop]

A seriously "nuclear explosion bright" light/high beam might alert a cager, but then leave them dazzled enough to "not see" the other bike/s coming along behind the lead bike of the group...

[MyGSXF]

Ill blame that for why i can never seem to hold my line on a straight road.

Where are you looking...?? If you are looking all over the place, then you will go all over the place! :blink:

Your eyes need to be constantly seeking the vanishing point, sweeping back down the road surface then back to the vanishing point again! Eyes UP is the most important part of biking!! :Punk:

You control your bike! It does what you tell it to :msn-wink:

[sunhuntin]

my high beam likely looks switched off comapared to DBs, but it has saved me many times.
the route i regularly take has two primary schools literally 400m apart. the traffic during school hours is nuts beyond belief. ive taken to riding that gauntlet on full beam, due to the number of mummies double parked, parked on yellows, and pulling out without looking or indication. since ive started doing that... not a single near miss has happened. i do the same when travelling another very busy road. i have had some near misses, but i put that down to my light being blocked by other traffic, which is why my line is always changing, depending on what im following.

got a photo of what they look like on dip DB?

[sinned]

Doesn't matter how big or bright your light is, some people just DONT LOOK!
A week ago while test riding a Sprint ST I could have returned in in pieces. If I hadn't braked in anticipation I would have hit her. She wasn't looking and didn't look when pulling out of an alley way to turn left. After braking I found the horn and she looked surprised. No matter how bright the lights they aren't going to see you if they don't look.

[Swoop]

Wear a brightly coloured helmet, put some reflective stickers on it for extra night time visibility. Wear coloured gear & better yet, a brightly coloured vest!
All these things add together to break that motion camouflage effect!
To me, that is adding to the effect of concealing a shape. Camouflage patterns are specifically designed to alter the outline of a human body. Bright colours are only one approach to being visable but a larger mass of one colour will alert a viewer due to the movement detected.

Then again, we are referring to a cager being bothered enough to turn their neck and look, in the first place...:bye:

[Pascal]

I started riding again on Saturday. And yes, I've spent an inordinate amount of time on the bike because really - why would you get off except to pee and sleep?

One thing I've learned is that even if they see you, even if they make eye contact, they haven't seen you. Or they think it's only a motorcycle, it is much more stable than a car and it can stop on a dime, so I'll just pull out in front of it / across it / make that u-turn. *watches them sip the latte / talk on mobile phone / generally not realize there are other vehicles on the road*

I'm now riding under the assumption that to them I am invisible and that even if they do acknowledge my existence it will be their aim to end said existence for me. So, I'll try to anticipate and compensate for the vacuum they drive in. Bright clothes, headlights on and slowing down when I see them.

Bright lights sound like a good idea - I'll have to upgrade to those just for an additional precaution.

[Squiggles]

Where are you looking...?? If you are looking all over the place, then you will go all over the place! :blink:

Your eyes need to be constantly seeking the vanishing point, sweeping back down the road surface then back to the vanishing point again! Eyes UP is the most important part of biking!! :Punk:

You control your bike! It does what you tell it to :msn-wink:

Its more of a wiggle than an across the lane movement, keeps me from sitting in a straight line, and as my position on the road is changing, even slightly, it helps reduce the 'motion camoflague' effect you refer to. :msn-wink:

[Jantar]

.... fit a brighter headlight, and use the bitch like a weapon.....

I am glad you live in the other island from me as I don't won't to be within 5 kms of you anytime you are on the road. Using your headlight like that is not only damn irritating, its a danger to yourself and to other road users.

Dip beam only when near other traffic.

[sinned]

It is the drivers who are only looking for big objects and not bikes which are the problem. These drivers can be sitting at and intersection and you can see them glance your way - but they don't see you.

Weaving on approaching an intersection makes drivers look again - I think it works for me. Hard to prove if effective though.

[sinned]

Its more of a wiggle than an across the lane movement, keeps me from sitting in a straight line, and as my position on the road is changing, even slightly, it helps reduce the 'motion camoflague' effect you refer to. :msn-wink:
A weave is good and keeps the tyres warm.

[CookMySock]

You can discuss it until the sky turns black, but there is only one thing that you have control over, and that is you - not anyone else, so forget the idea that finger-pointing at cagers is going to contribute to a solution.

It doesn't matter if you hit them at 50k or 150k - only the size of the splatter is different. You must convert their gazing into space from a peripheral non-detect into a detect, and then from there into a concious gaze and decision not to move, and the only way to do that is look big and intimidating.

I think super-bright headlights make vehicles look as if they are closing much more rapidly, since the light goes from non-visible to exceedingly bright the moment you come into line of sight - even if you are a kilometer away, and this seems to agree with the motion camouflage theory(?).

Only once has a car pulled out in front of me. It was on a corner and I was heading straight at their drivers door. They looked right and I wasn't there, looked left and pulled out, and looked right again and there I was. I was doing 120k about 100 meters out, HIDs on full, looking straight at the driver and they literally nearly jumped out their passenger window in fright! I am sure they thought they were about to die. I must have looked like a freight train to them. He just shot straight over the road into the gravel on the other size, tailer and all!

I wonder if a dipped HID might be better than a fullbeam one, as firstly its legal, and secondly its height can be set to it will flicker and draw a lot of attention.

Steve

[CookMySock]

I am glad you live in the other island from me as I don't won't to be within 5 kms of you anytime you are on the road. Using your headlight like that is not only damn irritating, its a danger to yourself and to other road users.Whatever mate. Bikers insulting and trolling other bikers in threads like this do no person any good, so put a finger in it.

Quite frankly, if you were following behind my bright lights - there would be no safer place for you.

Steve

[MyGSXF]

To me, that is adding to the effect of concealing a shape. Camouflage patterns are specifically designed to alter the outline of a human body. Bright colours are only one approach to being visable but a larger mass of one colour will alert a viewer due to the movement detected. Then again, we are referring to a cager being bothered enough to turn their neck and look, in the first place...:bye:

I am not talking about camouflage patters.. I am talking about being as bright & bold as possible.. to DRAW the drivers eyes it the biker.. If ya think about it.. what do we all love to wear.. BLACK.. black helmet, black clothes, black bikes.. (by far the sexiest... :devil2:) & what does that do.. it blends us in WONDERFULY with the environment we are traveling in.. dark trees, dark houses, shadows etcetc.. bingo.. thus we BLEND & are very hard too see! :(

As for a cager not bothering to turn & look in the first place.. See Pascals post & my reply below.. :niceone:


One thing I've learned is that even if they see you, even if they make eye contact, they haven't seen you. I'm now riding under the assumption that to them I am invisible and that even if they do acknowledge my existence. So, I'll try to anticipate and compensate for the vacuum they drive in. Bright clothes, headlights on and slowing down when I see them.

Now THAT m'dear.. is GOOD advanced rider training skills! :first: It's ALL about 3 things.. OBSERVE, ANTICIPATE, RESPOND! (or..SEE, THINK, DO!! )

Constantly scanning, observing the environment around you & other road users.. anticipating what could possibly happen at any time, & being prepared with the right skills (that you go out & practice!!) to be able to appropriately respond with an effective action! :2thumbsup



Its more of a wiggle than an across the lane movement, keeps me from sitting in a straight line, and as my position on the road is changing, even slightly, it helps reduce the 'motion camoflague' effect you refer to. :msn-wink:

lols.. yep.. that's the 3rd part of the effect. Alerting the driver the the bikes presence much earlier along the collision line. A smooth gentle single zig-zag motion at any point along the line, created a rapid edge movement against the background & destroyed the motion camouflage. :niceone:


I am glad you live in the other island from me as I don't won't to be within 5 kms of you anytime you are on the road. Using your headlight like that is not only damn irritating, its a danger to yourself and to other road users. Dip beam only when near other traffic.

x2 :eek:

[Goblin]

You can discuss it until the sky turns black, And THAT is the ONLY time you need your light on high beam...when there's no other vehicles in front of you.


... the only way to do that is look big and intimidating.Best way to do that is to wear black.


I think super-bright headlights make vehicles look as if they are closing much more rapidly, since the light goes from non-visible to exceedingly bright the moment you come into line of sight - even if you are a kilometer away, and this seems to agree with the motion camouflage theory(?).Gawd you're a knob! Blinding people with your exceedingly bright light will not help you when the dopey drivers pull out in front of you without even looking.


I wonder if a dipped HID might be better than a fullbeam one, as firstly its legal, and secondly its height can be set to it will flicker and draw a lot of attention.

SteveSince when have you ever cared what's legal? You spout off on here giving newbies the worst possible advice as if you're some kind of riding legend.

Take this guys advice with a big bag of salt!

[MyGSXF]

It is the drivers who are only looking for big objects and not bikes which are the problem. These drivers can be sitting at and intersection and you can see them glance your way - but they don't see you.
Weaving on approaching an intersection makes drivers look again - I think it works for me. Hard to prove if effective though.

Exactly.. motion camouflage!

A gentle weave at an intersection is a great preventive action!

Rest assured it IS proven effective! The papers that I wrote my post out of.. come from scientific studies! Motion camouflage was 1st described in 1995 (Srinivasan & Davey), that hoverflies & dragonflies use the technique in aerial battles. Now missile engineers are replicating the strategy to make their ballistics harder to dodge. But it was advanced motorcycle instructor Duncan MacKillop who made the link to SMIDSY (sorry mate I didn't see you) accidents. According to police crash data, in nearly all SMIDSY accidents the bike has hit the car somewhere between the A-pillar & the front wheel. This suggests the the point at which we "loom" into view is very close to the junction of the car! :shit:

Again it comes down to us as riders.. OBSERVE.. ANTICIPATE.. RESPOND!! :Punk:

[pritch]

If hi vis clobber makes you feel good, by all means wear it. So long as you don't rely on it because in reality it probably doesn't help much.

Somebody hereabout posted some more recent information that found that once the drivers make their decision to move they ignore subsequent visual cues. This explained how it is that you see drivers looking directly at you yet they still say "I didn't see you".

If somebody reading this knows ehere that information can be found I'd be interested to read it again...

[Jantar]

... in nearly all SMIDSY accidents the bike has hit the car somewhere between the A-pillar & the front wheel. This suggests the the point at which we "loom" into view is very close to the junction of the car! :shit:...

This is also in line with the natural blind spot that the human animal has. Like all animals we respond to perceived threats, and that is generally from something larger. So car drivers are sub-conciously looking for larger cars, trucks and busses, or objects that are moving towards them quickly.

Double headlights on dip beam are visible to the subconcious, and the looming effect that MyGSFX mentioned earlier can be apparent, as the lights tend to get further apart as they get closer. If your lights are on high beam, the looming effect is masked, and the subconcious brain has no way of telling how far away the bike is, nor how fast it is travelling. It is simply treated as an irritant, and not as a threat.

Maybe some riders do feel safer with their lights on high, but in fact it is more dangerous, and I don't want to be anywhere near them.

[NordieBoy]

I've noticed less drivers pulling out on me just with the extra little spottie above the headlight.

Just makes the shape different and catches the eye.

[Swoop]

I am not talking about camouflage patters.. I am talking about being as bright & bold as possible.
You have possibly missed my point. By wearing coloured gear* and then putting a high-vis vest over the top, you are effectively breaking up your outline and "creating camouflage".



* Most gear in the shops is not a plain colour (excluding basic black).
There will be a predominant colour and then additional colours in different locations as the style and designers see appropriate. ("Fashion Vs function" battle?)

[MyGSXF]

You have possibly missed my point. By wearing coloured gear* and then putting a high-vis vest over the top, you are effectively breaking up your outline and "creating camouflage".


& you are taking it too "precisely" m'dear. They are all examples of ways to make yourself more visible. If ya wanna wear coloured gear.. do so, coz that would work well to break the camouflage. If ya wanna wear black leather, do so with a high vis vest over top, which would work well to break the camouflage. If ya wanna wear black leathers & a bright pink helmet, do so, which would work well to break the camouflage. :shutup:

All.. examples of making yourself more visible & thus helping to break the motion camouflage effect. :yes:

It is up to the individual to choose what they want to do. :scooter:

[madbikeboy]

Okay, what is it with women drivers?

I had one pull out on me yesterday, then a minute later I jumped past her and her flash SUV (visibility behind them sucks) - so she decides to tailgate me. I stopped at the lights and had a gentle word with her, she got very rude and aggressive (not a long term plan on her part). Her argument, bikes are dangerous and we shouldn't be on the road.

I wonder if she's still looking for her keys?:lol:

[MarkH]

I am pretty sure driving lights on a bike are MUCH more effective than a bright headlight. The driving lights should be as far apart as is practical given the narrow profile of a bike. The problem with a really bright headlight is that it makes it hard for others to see the bike and the smaller the size of what they do see is, the harder to tell the distance and speed of it. A headlight + 2 driving lights make a triangle that will stand out more and be easier to judge distance and speed. When you are on a bike you need the car drivers to realise that you are there and are moving, otherwise they will misjudge the situation and pull out in front of you.

[slimjim]

yup...got small driving lamps fitted on xjr...they run yellow bulbs...even with these,side lights, and head light hard wired.....i get a few car drivers rebake after a second glazce to their right....(oops just noticed oncoming set of lights)...... just gota enjoy staying aware...

[Swoop]

Still a few contrails coming off of the message...

If ya wanna wear coloured gear.. do so, coz that would work well to break the camouflage.
Ummm. No.

If ya wanna wear black leather, do so with a high vis vest over top, which would work well to break the camouflage.
Possibly, but since an outline has been broken up... Ummm. No.

If ya wanna wear black leathers & a bright pink helmet, do so, which would work well to break the camouflage.
This would be the better option, in fact. A solid shape of a body with a bright helmet colour on top. The ride forever site (http://www.rideforever.co.nz/)recommends a white or a yellow helmet as being the most visable.

[Tank]

http://www.gettysburgflag.com/images/BikeFlagChild.jpg

problem solved

[MyGSXF]

This would be the better option, in fact. A solid shape of a body with a bright helmet colour on top. The ride forever site (http://www.rideforever.co.nz/)recommends a white or a yellow helmet as being the most visable.

Yes, that's a great site! I point my mentees & my freinds in the direction of it! :2thumbsup

As is www.roadsafe.co.nz.. who are the internationally, highly trained instructors who ran the several advanced courses I have attended (& helped at) over the past 3ish years! :rolleyes:

& yes, white or yellow is the most recommended... :niceone: I was being sarcastic about the pink ! :shifty: (to state the obvious:bleh:)

[MarkH]

& yes, white or yellow is the most recommended...

I wear black leathers & a white helmet - I specifically chose the white for the helmet for this reason. Unlike a fluoro vest which would be another thing to wear, putting on a helmet is something that I would do no matter the colour, I figure it is a pretty easy thing to do for safety sake - choose white when buying a helmet!

[Swoop]

problem solved
Did anyone else have a Chopper Guard flag???:whistle:

:niceone: I was being sarcastic about the pink ! :shifty: (to state the obvious:bleh:)
I think it would look fabulous darling!*said in finest camp voice, with enhanced lisp...*:rofl:

[CookMySock]

my high beam likely looks switched off comapared to DBs, but it has saved me many times.
the route i regularly take has two primary schools literally 400m apart. the traffic during school hours is nuts beyond belief. ive taken to riding that gauntlet on full beam, due to the number of mummies double parked, parked on yellows, and pulling out without looking or indication. since ive started doing that... not a single near miss has happened. i do the same when travelling another very busy road. i have had some near misses, but i put that down to my light being blocked by other traffic, which is why my line is always changing, depending on what im following.

got a photo of what they look like on dip DB?Yay! A glimmer of common-thinking! 8-(

Naw I don't have photos, but that is something I should arrange. Last week I was riding along this 2km straight (broad daylight), and I see a bright headlight-flash from seemingly out of nowhere from the far end of the straight. I squint into the distance at the end of the straight (2km away) and I cannot detect a car there. Down to 1km and there he is - and I immeditely get flashed again "dip please" - oops, dip I go! The point being, I could not even SEE a car there, but they could see me very clearly indeed - so clearly in fact, that I get a dip request from 2km away.

I forgot how resoundly rediculed and name-called I would get for my non-conventional opinion. Once again, KB shows just how incapable its' members are of having a tolerant, rational, balanced discussion, without resorting to projections and abuse. It's not my heart attack.

I stand by my opinion. "Get a brighter headlight and use it like a weapon." It might save your life.

Steve

[Tank]

Yay! A glimmer of common-thinking! 8-(

Naw I don't have photos, but that is something I should arrange. Last week I was riding along this 2km straight (broad daylight), and I see a bright headlight-flash from seemingly out of nowhere from the far end of the straight. I squint into the distance at the end of the straight (2km away) and I cannot detect a car there. Down to 1km and there he is - and I immeditely get flashed again "dip please" - oops, dip I go! The point being, I could not even SEE a car there, but they could see me very clearly indeed - so clearly in fact, that I get a dip request from 2km away.

I forgot how resoundly rediculed and name-called I would get for my non-conventional opinion. Once again, KB shows just how incapable its' members are of having a tolerant, rational, balanced discussion, without resorting to projections and abuse. It's not my heart attack.

I stand by my opinion. "Get a brighter headlight and use it like a weapon." It might save your life.

Steve


Its been asked many times - but you never answer

You have stated you leave it on high beam even when behind other bikers - how do you get a dip request from the guy in front of you going in the same direction?

[PirateJafa]

Its been asked many times - but you never answer

You have stated you leave it on high beam even when behind other bikers - how do you get a dip request from the guy in front of you going in the same direction?
Probably when they kick him over at the next set of lights. I know I would.

Hell, I tend to turn my lights off completely when riding with others.

[Tank]

Whatever mate. Bikers insulting and trolling other bikers in threads like this do no person any good, so put a finger in it.

Quite frankly, if you were following behind my bright lights - there would be no safer place for you.

Steve

Safe behind a Ho-Bag? What about all the bits that fall off when you go over bumps ??

[nodrog]

Safe behind a Ho-Bag? What about all the bits that fall off when you go over bumps ??

like the rider?

[Gubb]

<img src="http://www.gettysburgflag.com/images/BikeFlagChild.jpg"></img>
problem solved
Haha. I'd actually have one of those on my bike.

'twould be awesome.

Safe behind a Ho-Bag? What about all the bits that fall off when you go over bumps ??
Believe it or not, it is actually pretty safe sitting in behind them, considering it won't be moving, as the Piston is in lots of little pieces.

FACT.

[Ixion]

http://www.gettysburgflag.com/images/BikeFlagChild.jpg

problem solved

I tried this some years ago. It was not a success. The flag shredded at high speeds, and the pole whiplashed alarmingly, and finally broke off at speed. I cannot recommend the idea.

[sunhuntin]

Double headlights on dip beam are visible to the subconcious, and the looming effect that MyGSFX mentioned earlier can be apparent, as the lights tend to get further apart as they get closer. If your lights are on high beam, the looming effect is masked, and the subconcious brain has no way of telling how far away the bike is, nor how fast it is travelling. It is simply treated as an irritant, and not as a threat.

ive noticed that with oncoming cars. ive spotted what i saw to be a single headlight in the distance, and start expecting a motorbike. the closer it gets, it splits now and then into double, making me work to clear my already clear vision [i sometimes have double vision when tired] eventually that single headlight splits into two and turns into a car instead. :crazy: however, that headlight i have generally spotted several k off, as opposed to cars without headlights that i dont see until i can make out the outline.

i will stand by my pathetically dull high beam being used around schools and other high traffic areas as the situation demands. ive stopped leaving it on fulltime, but continue the use as needed. using it around schools has stopped many vehicles from hitting me and then crying foul, and its likely as not also stopped kids from running onto the road in front of me. i also travel between 30 and 40k until im clear. im sure this has also added to the cutting off by parents dropping dramatically.
it also gets used on the open road, and ive never been flashed once about it.

[xwhatsit]

I tried this some years ago. It was not a success. The flag shredded at high speeds, and the pole whiplashed alarmingly, and finally broke off at speed. I cannot recommend the idea.
Yup, what you really want to do, is take that same flag and same child, kick his bike into a stream, and pay him a few pennies to walk in front of cars, waving the flag, and ringing a bell.

[Ixion]

That's all very well, but at the speed I ride at, I've no hope of catching up to the little bugger in the first place.

[sunhuntin]

Yup, what you really want to do, is take that same flag and same child, kick his bike into a stream, and pay him a few pennies to walk in front of cars, waving the flag, and ringing a bell.

that reminded me of those stupid kiddy trailers that eco-mums insist on towing behind their pushie. 99% of the kids dont have helmets, and they are the perfect height to get some of those all important exhaust fumes right in their faces. poor little shits... what ever happened to the kiddie seats that attached to the bike right behind mum and dad? much safer!

[nadroj]

I am glad you live in the other island from me as I don't won't to be within 5 kms of you anytime you are on the road. Using your headlight like that is not only damn irritating, its a danger to yourself and to other road users.

Dip beam only when near other traffic.

X3. Ever found yourself drawn towards an oncoming vehicle with headlights on full, because you can't see the centreline or roadside on a slight bend?

[Tank]

Just to follow up DB - showing the kind of attitude you have to the safty of other road users out there - Do you think it would be OK if someone else pulled in behind your wife and kids with HID's on fullbeam - even if it was only for 15 seconds (plenty of time for them to get 'light blindness' and drive into a ditch.





Originally Posted by Tank
Way to annoy other motorist, bikers and the like.

Personally I think that the HID upgrade is a good idea if the bike dosnt have good lighting to start, but NEVER high beam other road users - its an arse thing to do.

Like you would know. The safe passage of my arse is vastly more important to me than some complaining motorist who regularly "doesn't see me." They see me now, thats for sure, and I am behind no one for more than 15 seconds anyway - different story on your cruiser for sure.


On my noisy 650 vtwin I use its (standard) exhaust note and super-bright HID headlamps as safety options. No one dares pull out in front its nasty headlamp coz they cant see a fucking thing, and just pop it back a couple of gears and crackle, bang, pop, bang, boom, and the traffic parts in front of me like the red sea. Awesome! edit: skip the lecture coz I don't care.

you really are an inconsiderate (if not dangerous) road user.

[Tank]

Actually - this reminded me of another of your post.

The basis is pretty much the same where you are 'frightened or distracted because of others road usage' (like having an asshole up your ass with HID's on fullbeam)


What about my learner 15 y/o son the they just frightened fuck out of as he headed for the gravel ?

How would you feel ? HTFU ? Tell THAT to your learner wife on her 250 and see what response you get, you fuck. Oh, and go back and scrape your fucken dead teenage son off the fucken trees as well after he swerved outa their way. Think before you type.

DB

Perhaps you are one of those people who have to have something horrible happen to them before they learn. I don't wish that on you (obviously), but you seem quite willing to let your actions cause it to other road users.

[Slyer]

I'd be interested to see how much of a difference it makes to have two (or more) headlights on the front of the bike.
DB you're a dick.

[Paulo]

Eye Contact! hah make sure its not a GLASS eye, I had a guy look over his right shoulder make eye contact with me and then proceed to plough into me, Turned out he had a glass eye his good one was the left one, dammed if I know why he was allowed to drive. It was lucky I was assuming the worst and was already going very slow.

[NordieBoy]

Did anyone else have a Chopper Guard flag???:whistle:

Did anyone else get into trouble when they made it into a bow and arrow set??? :whistle:

[Tank]

Did anyone else get into trouble when they made it into a bow and arrow set??? :whistle:

no - but did get in trouble for sticking it thru the spokes of the front wheel of a girl that used to pick on me as she rode past. (hey - I was 7 - and she was big).

[LilSel]

Hope the injured in the accidents pull thru ok

[BOGAR]

There was an interesting article about how far apart lights are spaced that also gives us the perception of mass thus if you did put two lights on your bike under the indicator lamps (or use the indicator lamps as some do) you are perceived as bigger and thus they are less likely to pull out in front of you. But in the end there is no help from the people who look but don’t see.
A sad fact that 2 days after getting my full licence in the states I didn’t see a big red fire engine at the stop. No I didn’t hit it and no it didn’t have its lights or siren on. The sad fact was I looked and saw what I wanted to see, which was nothing. I was in a hurry to get somewhere and wonted the gap. I now check very carefully everywhere I go. I also try and expect to see something so that now when it is clear I still check again.
This is something I am not proud of even after 10 years BTW

[Horse]

The rider's size does not appear to increase as they travel down this line & so the blend in to the background!

This is why a single headlight on full is such a dumb idea (IMO, obviously) in daylight. The brightness of the headlight obscures the outline of the bike, and the headlight does not appear to change in size as the bike approaches, so all the cager's peripheral vision detects is a stationary unchanging light.

I have seen this when waiting in intersections when looking at an approaching bike with headlight on full - and this is while I was consciously looking at the bike! I couldn't make out the bike's speed or distance, so I waited at the intersection until the actual bike became visible behind the headlight. An inattentive cager is just going to write the bike out of their immediate threat awareness.

I believe this is one of the reasons train locomotives now have "ditch lights", those small lights at the lower corners of the loco's front. A single train headlight can completely obscure speed and range, but with ditch lights you have a triangle of lights (ditch lights at bottom, single headlight at top), and the triangle changes in size as the train approaches, telling your brain about speed and range. (And yes, the ditch lights also flash when the loco sounds its horn approaching a crossing).

This is also why I like the "passing lights" on my bike which are illuminated whenever the main headlight is on low beam - it means there's a line of 3 lights across the front giving drivers those same cues about approach speed and range. They're quite a common feature on cruisers, and I don't consider them just decorative.

[BOGAR]

Thanks Horse, your description puts what i was hoping to say in a much better way.

[Forest]

I forgot how resoundly rediculed and name-called I would get for my non-conventional opinion. Once again, KB shows just how incapable its' members are of having a tolerant, rational, balanced discussion, without resorting to projections and abuse. It's not my heart attack.

I stand by my opinion. "Get a brighter headlight and use it like a weapon." It might save your life.

Steve

You get ridiculed and name-called because your opinion is dangerous to other road-users.

It shocks me that you cannot see this.

[Boob Johnson]

I'm not totally happy with the way the idiots who pulled out in front of a bike or did a u turn are repeatedly referred to as "the gentleman".

They aren't gentlemen, they are dopey bastards. Dangerous dopey bastards at that.
Damn straight, far too much of that behaviour happens on our roads, my hip can attest to that :mad:

[Marmoot]

<img src="http://www.ssyso.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=1420&g2_serialNumber=2">

So do something about the problem and fit a brighter headlight, and use the bitch like a weapon.

http://www.ssyso.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=406

Steve

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=87706

[Tank]

for the record - that aint my V-Strom.

[Gubb]

for the record - that aint my V-Strom.
Maybe you could fit HIDs and leave 'em on full, that way, no-one can tell how ugly it is.


p/t you jammy bastard.

[WuZards-Eugene]

CROWBARS

These are great for informing cagers exactly what it feels like when they decide to mate their shitbox with a motorcycle.

[Jantar]

for the record - that aint my V-Strom.
It isn't even a New Zealand one. :mellow:

[sinned]

It isn't even a New Zealand one. :mellow:
Good spotting - reminds me of the Labour advert of the mother who was an actor. Is it all about Trust on KB?

[nadroj]

All wright ed, any more bright idea's?

[Robbo]

Whatever mate. Bikers insulting and trolling other bikers in threads like this do no person any good, so put a finger in it.

Quite frankly, if you were following behind my bright lights - there would be no safer place for you.

Steve

What utter f***ing Bollocks. You get up on your soapbox and promote something that is not only illegal but is also totally inconsiderate and bloody dangerous for all other road users and then consider it to be insulting and trolling because someone dissagrees with your outrageous statement.
I think you need to look at the majority of replies on this subject and think a little more seriously about your arogant attitude on this one.

[naphazoline]

good to see that speed wasn't a factor in any of the accidents on the weekend,and that the cops are appealing to all motorists to keep an eye out for us.(taranaki daily news)

the toy run was a real hoot.
the weather could not have possibly been any better,and at an estimated 280+ bikes(taranaki daily news),was the best turn out ever.
my first big group ride,and i loved it :)

roll on the next one :)

[sunhuntin]

I believe this is one of the reasons train locomotives now have "ditch lights", those small lights at the lower corners of the loco's front. A single train headlight can completely obscure speed and range, but with ditch lights you have a triangle of lights (ditch lights at bottom, single headlight at top), and the triangle changes in size as the train approaches, telling your brain about speed and range. (And yes, the ditch lights also flash when the loco sounds its horn approaching a crossing).


yeh, but if youre going to take on a train [and how hard are they to see??] you deserve the darwin award.

[Tank]

Maybe you could fit HIDs and leave 'em on full, that way, no-one can tell how ugly it is.



My bikes so ugly - I could ride naked and people still wouldn't see past the horrid lines of the mighty V-Strom.

Still - great bike - function over form.

[naphazoline]

Still - great bike - function over form.

too true.
a lot of modern sportsbikes aren't very pretty either,IE:2008 fireblade,but it's still an awesome package.

[cowpoos]

Whatever mate. Bikers insulting and trolling other bikers in threads like this do no person any good, so put a finger in it.

Quite frankly, if you were following behind my bright lights - there would be no safer place for you.

Steve

Its good to see you have decided to be a much more mature poster now steve...alot better than your imature and pathetic beginings on this website.

[Goblin]

Rode through Edgecumbe the other day and three cars had their lights on highbeam! :shit:

Must be something in the water over there.:mellow:




This thread is sooo last year.

[PrincessBandit]

Ooooh, can we have airhorns (like on biiiiiiiig trucks) that would frighten the crap out of any car driver we think is going to suddenly invade our space? (A little preemptive strike).
Unfortunately we'd probably still be held responsible for scaring them rather than alerting them to our presence.

[Katman]

Ooooh, can we have airhorns (like on biiiiiiiig trucks) that would frighten the crap out of any car driver we think is going to suddenly invade our space? (A little preemptive strike).


I've heard your airhorn.

Certainly scared me.

(Admittedly, back then I wasn't the fearless Katman I am today).

[Ocean1]

Ooooh, can we have airhorns (like on biiiiiiiig trucks) that would frighten the crap out of any car driver we think is going to suddenly invade our space?

Aww, officer, we was just messin' around, y'know?

[AD345]

Ooooh, can we have airhorns (like on biiiiiiiig trucks) that would frighten the crap out of any car driver we think is going to suddenly invade our space? (A little preemptive strike).
Unfortunately we'd probably still be held responsible for scaring them rather than alerting them to our presence.


Yes we can (http://www.twistedthrottle.com/trade/productview/2137/)

[NordieBoy]

Ooooh, can we have airhorns (like on biiiiiiiig trucks) that would frighten the crap out of any car driver we think is going to suddenly invade our space? (A little preemptive strike).
Unfortunately we'd probably still be held responsible for scaring them rather than alerting them to our presence.


Yes we can (http://www.twistedthrottle.com/trade/productview/2137/)

Do a site search here for "stebel nautilus".

[PrincessBandit]

Yes we can (http://www.twistedthrottle.com/trade/productview/2137/)

Yippee Ki-yay!!! They fit the SV650, Bandits and Burgers. I want one!!

[skidMark]

Doesn't matter how big or bright your light is, some people just DONT LOOK! Dopey drivers will pull out into the path of trucks and even trains! Blinding all other motorists is NOT going to make you safer!


It is in most cases though, in those it will not help fair point.

But with the looming effect etc others discussed i believe it would really help most times...

I had every person from every side street pull out when i had the zxr on low beams (set to correct warrent height etc.)

I ran it on high beams on stock bulbs and the problem went away and maybe 1 in 40 cars pulled out...

So yes hi beams during the day.