Heavy bike technique question

[marks]

Help o wise ones.

I generally stand up when riding in the rough and if I do something that unexpectedly diverts the front wheel like drop into a rut or hit an unseen rock in a stream or mud puddle I can normally drop into the seat and plant a leg out and keep myself upright - this works fine on the WR and DT.

The same technique works on the klr but puts a hell of a load on my legs and particularly my knees. The only alternative I can see is to sit in the knarly bits so I can get a leg out before the bike goes too far off vertical and hopefully reduce the shock on the leg.

This seems a bit of an ugly solution - what do you guys do?

polite answers appreciated :baby:

[warewolf]

Sitting down is much more likely to provoke a 'dab'. You are more likely to recover from the front stepping out if you are standing up... so that's what I do, and bugger the consequences if it all goes pear shaped. You can usually see better when standing up, again that helps avoid the problem in the first place. So I tend to fall off in an untidy manner from a great height...:buggerd:

But I understand about heavy bikes - I don't like them - which is why I've been on a bit of a minimalist approach the last few years.

[Woodman]

Help o wise ones.

I generally stand up when riding in the rough and if I do something that unexpectedly diverts the front wheel like drop into a rut or hit an unseen rock in a stream or mud puddle I can normally drop into the seat and plant a leg out and keep myself upright - this works fine on the WR and DT.

The same technique works on the klr but puts a hell of a load on my legs and particularly my knees. The only alternative I can see is to sit in the knarly bits so I can get a leg out before the bike goes too far off vertical and hopefully reduce the shock on the leg.

This seems a bit of an ugly solution - what do you guys do?

polite answers appreciated :baby:

Standing is a good rule of thumb, but it also depends on what speed you are doing. If it is really gnarly muddy etc and you have to go slow then sit. Anything close to second gear and above stand , unless you are on a road then sit, if there are potholes then stand, then sit again when it gets smoother, then sit when you corner, or stand if it is very rough.
Does this help or just make you feel tired with all that sitting and standing??

[tri boy]

What is this "standing" you refer to?
It is an awkward, and untoward image that only "commoners" use whilst negotiating obstacles on trails.

The gentleman scrambler soceity therefore will not condone such actions, but will, (with distain) ride with such individual's.

"Jeffery! Another round of whiskeys!" Pip, pip.

[K slider]

I prefere standing, one of the main reasons for dropping into a rut is where you are looking, look ahead and never look where you dont want to go as this where you will end up.
Good luck

Pete.

[That looks like fun]

In my experience when a big bike goes it goes fast :argh: If I am travelling at speed and standing up its usually "hello ground". It takes a lot to get the big buggers back so I adopt a road riding philosophy, dont get in the shit then you dont have to get out of it!! :2thumbsup. On the 1100 I find it easier to sit, take it slowly and pick a good line. Only time I stand is on sweeping gravel corners.
Mind you it has been said I am a lazy bugger :2thumbsup
If all else fails call 0800 skyhook, pick her up and go again.

[pete376403]

On a bike as heavy as a loaded KLR I doubt if you can *really* save it by putting a foot down. When it (the bike) wants to go, it's gonna go, and footwork isn't going to make much difference. It's also easier to abandon ship when standing.
I've got a dodgy knee and I'm not going to sacrifice what mobility it has left by trying to prop up a 190+ kilo (wet weight, full tank) bike.

[bart]

Ride faster when standing. Momentum will get you through most unforseen shit.............or make the crash more spectacular.

[JATZ]

I do what ever the hell I want, what ever feels most comfortable at the time.
Without worrying about what I should be doing.

[fatmonkey]

i stand when i can see what i'm riding on like sand, dry ish ruts, river beds etc and sit with my legs out in first gear when i can't see, like in deep mud, muddy water. i ride a dr650 with 30L tank and heaps of other shit in aust outback and this works for me. oh almost forgot, stand at speed on gravel, always. also try steering with your feet, weight the peg on the side you want to turn to to start the turn then switch the weight to the other side, helps heaps in sand

[Transalper]

I try not to dab, usually if a foot goes down it's because I'm getting off and trying to save myself, I'll rescue the bike later when it stops.... unless someone else rescues it for me :msn-wink:

[cooneyr]

I'm all for standing as well. I find I have much more control when standing in the rough stuff. Generally if the bikes wanting to have a rest then there ain much I'm gonna do about it other that wake it up again afterwards :D

Cheers R

[helenoftroy]

So I tend to fall off in an untidy manner from a great height...:buggerd:
But I understand about heavy bikes - I don't like them - which is why I've been on a bit of a minimalist approach the last few years.
Lmao!! this was me on my R100GS.I learnt to jump away when she turned into a missile.DRs a better size for me:laugh:

I prefere standing, one of the main reasons for dropping into a rut is where you are looking, look ahead and never look where you dont want to go as this where you will end up.
Good luck

Pete.
Absolutely

[pampa]

Not exactly your question but look at this pay attention to second 1:56. It applies the technique I mentioned last Sunday (the one on the dvd "Dual Sport Techniques").

And other points mentioned here

And it's really cool vid as well :woohoo:

<object width="400" height="225"><br />

<br />

<br />

<embed src="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=2379075&amp;server=vimeo.com&amp;sho w_title=1&amp;show_byline=1&amp;show_portrait=0&amp;color=&amp;ful lscreen=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" width="400" height="225"></object><br />

<a href="http://vimeo.com/2379075" target="_blank">KTM DAKAR TEST</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/user631138" target="_blank">Gary Price</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com" target="_blank">Vimeo</a>

[Padmei]

great vid. Really good body posture with elbows up etc. These guys do make things look too easy though.

Marks I seem to drop into the seat when it gets really really rough/ out of contrl but not sure at this stage if it's an actual decision (subconcious or not), or if I get thrown down there by the motion of the bike. I will try to monitor it next time & find out the answer.

So sorry no help here but I'm hearing ya

[marks]

thanks for all the answers guys

it seems the solution is to keep standing and fit an ejector seat for those shitcake moments :)

[XF650]

Standing requires strong & secure foot peg mounts.
Are you still messing with yours Mark?

[marks]

Standing requires strong & secure foot peg mounts.
Are you still messing with yours Mark?

I have nice wide serrated pegs fitted on standard brackets at the moment.

If I'd had those lowering brackets fitted I wouldn't have had any footpegs at all after Odlins Rd.

I will get some new lower brackets made that don't hang below the frame at some point - lower pegs make dabbing while standing less likely to result in knee surgery :)

[warewolf]

And it's really cool vid as well :woohoo:"O" for awesome!! :2thumbsup

[motorbyclist]

now while i do realise motox bikes aren't exactly heavy, i suspect the notion of "don't sit down" holds true as much as it does there as anywhere else... sure my YZ400f 'seat' is really just for paddding between me and the frame whereas yours is an actual seat, but the fact is if you sit on the seat you're going to get thrown around as much as the bike is, and when you're standing you can better position the bike to keep it upright. if it falls over you're going too slow;)

although i suspect dodgy knees aren't up to standing with one foot out as you tear around a whooped up and/or rocky corner, a heavier bike requires more strength, and by standing you've got a better chance of managing it to keep it upright in the first place. if your knees aren't up to the task, perhaps you should go back to a lighter wr?:dodge: - it may save your riding career from an otherwise surgical end...


even on a sprotsbike I tend to spend very little time on the seat and most your time sliding across it, and my knees get pretty sore as aresult of all the work while being folded up to fit on the bike - and i'm still 19

[Padmei]

if it falls over you're going too slow;)



Fuck off - that's the most wankished statement I've ever heard.

[warewolf]

Also a classic Gassit: (sorry can't find just the cartoon frame itself)

<img src=https://www.magshop.com.au/images/products/356_050120_xl.jpg>

I was speeding because... bikes fall over if you don't go fast!

[Paladin]

Not exactly your question but look at this pay attention to second 1:56. It applies the technique I mentioned last Sunday (the one on the dvd "Dual Sport Techniques").

And other points mentioned here

And it's really cool vid as well :woohoo:



Cool vid Pampa, although I now feel like I am a total wimp on the bike!!!

:doh:

[tri boy]

Foook those Red Bull beasties have some serious suspension.
I think I got 1/2 mongrel in ma pants for a Katoom for a sec.

[dino3310]

well mate how longs a piece of string, everybody's got there own styles, techniques and quirks then theres bike set up blah blah blah blah blah the list go's on, at the end of the day you'll find the best technique for you, i practice on a rd not far from hams that is quite a challange at speed so i get out there as much as i can to work out some kinks in my own techniques- i still ride like a nana:yawn: but i'm slowly getting faster with less close calls.
these bigger bikes are certainally a lot harder to throw around but its still a shit load of fun.:yes:

[Woodman]

Speed ain't everythin, its not a race. Would love to see those ktm guys on stock KLRs. I know they would still humble the shit outta me. They make it look easy aye. They do powerslides at will where if I do one I tell the wife about it when I get home. She is pretty good at looking as though she gives a shit.

[Padmei]

Speed ain't everythin, its not a race. Would love to see those ktm guys on stock KLRs. I know they would still humble the shit outta me. They make it look easy aye. They do powerslides at will where if I do one I tell the wife about it when I get home. She is pretty good at looking as though she gives a shit.

do you get the "oh thats nice dear :yawn:" too

[motorbyclist]

Fuck off - that's the most wankished statement I've ever heard.

did i not mention i'm talking moto-x, possibly the 3rd most wankish past time right after harleys and boy racers? it's the sort of thing where you actually see people trying to clean their bikes between races and have matching uniforms and bikes with their friends:tugger:

and fyi i find carrying some speed/momentum is invaluable in many situations, though i'll admit speed isn't that useful once you've royally fucked it up anyway

[CrazyFrog]

There's some basic laws of physics/gravity going on when seated/standing and the amount of travel you get from your suspension....ie sag etc. Being seated puts more weight on the rear and makes the front lighter, good for easy terrain or tractoring it up climbs slowly.
Standing weights the front more, allowing more grip, more positve feel from ya tyre (also makes it easier to bail from). You also raise your C.O.G, making the bike more top heavy, somewhat easier to tip into corners. Your legs act as extra shock absorbers when standing on the rough stuff = better bike handling, beacuse you're less likely to bottom out.
A bike with very well set up suspension can be ridden so much harder than an undersuspended, or badly set up, and/or heavy bike. Some animals can still ride these bikes very well, they're just tend to be familiar with their machine and it's limits and ride accordingly. I only wish I was a suspension expert.......
Some of you have prob seen some of the loose stuff guys post on YouTube on KTM950's. Not light by any means, just well set up!

[Tony W]

One of the coolest riders of " big " bikes I have seen, is JAVAHEAD on the 1150 GS Adv.
He is poetry in motion on that BMW of his. He stands up virtually full time when the going gets fast or tough.
If you could get a comment out of him I'm sure it would be interesting.

[pete376403]

That could be the guy who passed me on the hakataramea last Brass Monkey weekend. I was wobbling along in thick gravel, the BM went by like I was tied to a post. Rider was standing, going faaast and still waved as he went by. I was so jealous I almost fell on the next corner.

[CrazyFrog]

One of the coolest riders of " big " bikes I have seen, is JAVAHEAD on the 1150 GS Adv.
He is poetry in motion on that BMW of his. He stands up virtually full time when the going gets fast or tough.
If you could get a comment out of him I'm sure it would be interesting.

The foresaid man in action, photo taken over my shoulder as he chased me thru the Taranaki in Sept....and I did some chasing of him shortly afterwards:2thumbsup: Andrew from Hamilton, very competent rider on the big Beemer.. He can be my wingman anyday!

[javahead]

I just stand because its fun to get the bike sliding around and its easier to save when the front tucks. On gravel its usually faster (and much more civilised) to stay seated.
Marks it might be that the klr in the gnarly stuff requires you to move your body around much further, because the heavier bike is slower to react. That, the extra gear we wear on adv rides, and a lower seat means your knees could be doing more work over a greater range of movement.
There's nothing wrong with doing whatever is required when the terrain gets tricky. Paddling is ugly but picking up 200kg or more is uglier. Big bikes are best enjoyed when upright but agree with those who advocate jumping clear when physics takes over.

[twotyred]

The engineers at Suzuki believe that large dual-purpose bikes are meant to be ridden standing,so to reinforce that thinking they created the DR650 seat...

[NordieBoy]

The engineers at Suzuki believe that large dual-purpose bikes are meant to be ridden standing,so to reinforce that thinking they created the DR650 seat...

But put the footpegs too far forward...

[JATZ]

The engineers at Suzuki believe that large dual-purpose bikes are meant to be ridden standing,so to reinforce that thinking they created the DR650 seat...

Mrs jatz just did about 300k's on the Big today, she now knows about DR seats

[Woodman]

But put the footpegs too far forward...

Yes, why are footpegs too far forward? Was actually looking at klr today and designing in my head a wee bracket to bring pegs back to swingarm pivot. Levers would be ok as i wear size 14 boots anyway. Should have been riding not looking at it.

[warewolf]

The engineers at Suzuki believe that large dual-purpose bikes are meant to be ridden standing,so to reinforce that thinking they created the DR650 seat...


But put the footpegs too far forward...Just goes to show jap bikes are designed by committee, with each person having a different idea in mind.

[NordieBoy]

The engineers at Suzuki believe that large dual-purpose bikes are meant to be ridden standing,so to reinforce that thinking they created the DR650 seat...

Actually...
When I got my latest WoF the tester comes back and goes "Man that's a nice seat" :D

[Oscar]

I was having trouble with my 950 until I fitted some 25mm bar risers.

This makes it so much more comfortable to stand up without having to hunched over (jeez, the average Austrian is a shortarse), and standing turns the KTM from a large unwieldy awkward mass to a proper dirt bike. Some wider footpegs might help (taking the rubber inserts out was a good start).

At the risk of repeating myself, I think that some of the more inexperienced would benefit from time on little dirt bikes. Some of those guys you're watching punt big trailies around with consummate ease have several decades experience behind them. Get yerself a cheap trail bike (KDX220/200, XR250/400 or DRZ) and go bush...

[ducatijim]

At the risk of repeating myself, I think that some of the more inexperienced would benefit from time on little dirt bikes. Some of those guys you're watching punt big trailies around with consummate ease have several decades experience behind them. Get yerself a cheap trail bike (KDX220/200, XR250/400 or DRZ) and go bush...


+1

We really must stop agreeing like this Oscar, I enjoyed our snipeing so much more:Playnice:

[Oscar]

+1

We really must stop agreeing like this Oscar, I enjoyed our snipeing so much more:Playnice:

Snipeing??!!

Notwithstanding the obvious spelling error, that is a very limp wristed and gurly thing to accuse a bloke of.

I would prefer to be known as being "aggressively cynical", or alternatively the description I earned at ADVRider as "comically unpleasant".

Sheesh....

[ducatijim]

I would prefer to be known as being "aggressively cynical", or alternatively the description I earned at ADVRider as "comically unpleasant".

Sheesh....

....how about....heres one.........'unpleasantly cynical'?:Punk:

( the cows don't give much for good gramma!!!!)

Its good to see we are no longer agreeing, status quo returned.

[Padmei]

I was having trouble with my 950 until I fitted some 25mm bar risers.

This makes it so much more comfortable to stand up without having to hunched over .

+1 on the bar risers - what a difference in control & comfort:clap:

[Oscar]

....how about....heres one.........'unpleasantly cynical'?:Punk:

( the cows don't give much for good gramma!!!!)

Its good to see we are no longer agreeing, status quo returned.

Feh...

I don't agree with anyone.



























Which means yer actually agreeing with me!:Pokey:

[Phreaky Phil]

[QUOTE=marks;1846418]Help o wise ones.

I generally stand up when riding in the rough and if I do something that unexpectedly diverts the front wheel like drop into a rut or hit an unseen rock in a stream or mud puddle I can normally drop into the seat and plant a leg out and keep myself upright - this works fine on the WR and DT.

The same technique works on the klr but puts a hell of a load on my legs and particularly my knees. The only alternative I can see is to sit in the knarly bits so I can get a leg out before the bike goes too far off vertical and hopefully reduce the shock on the leg.

This seems a bit of an ugly solution - what do you guys do?

polite answers appreciated :baby:[/QUOTE
My 10 cents worth
You hit the nail on the head with your comment about the bike getting to far off vertical. All of the big ADV bikes are to heavy to hold up if the get to far off vertical, so balance is the key. Momentum can be your friend, but is kind of a double edged sword depending on traction avaliable. Tyres are the key to getting a big bike through difficut places, especially the front. If the bikes all over the place its gunna be hard work. For the record, on a dirt bike i stand up most of the time. On the GS I have my pillion on board so I have to sit down.

[warewolf]

Whilst the aim with a pillion is to be gentle, it is better to stand up to keep control of the bike, than crash in an effort to be polite or summat.

I pillioned a dirt rider on the Maungatapu; he kept one hand on my shoulder and his weight was neutral on the bike even in the rough. It felt to me like he always had his torso lined up with mine. I'm not sure if it was because he was an accomplished dirt rider (dunno if he is), or whether the hand on my shoulder gave him a point of reference for where he should be. A bit like on the road where if your pillion holds you with her knees/thighs, your weight-shifts via hips/legs are telegraphed automatically so she can feel you setting up the bike for the turns etc.

Also similar to the reason you should hold the bike with your knees: instinctively your brain knows where the bike is, because the knee bone's connected to the thigh bone, the thigh bone's connected to the hip bone, and that's what it's all about! :woohoo:

[NordieBoy]

Heavy bike technique?
Go fast!
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[Padmei]

Yep shows to go ya don't it:laugh:

[marks]

Tyres are the key to getting a big bike through difficut places, especially the front. If the bikes all over the place its gunna be hard work.

Yes this is a tuffy - I've got a TKC on the front which doesn't like mud or greasy clay much - where something like a Dunlop D606 would be much better - BUT the the KLR is so much fun on twisty tar - largely due to that TKC's excellent road grip.

It seems that the bike can handle a wider range of conditions than the tires can. It really comes down to choosing where you have your ass clenching moments - road or trail.

Rossi said "Choose a tire you really trust for the front and something round and black for the back"