Manslaughter charge for bloke who killed tagger

[PrincessBandit]

Jury have returned a "guilty of manslaughter" charge. I reckon that's the only reasonable thing they could have done. Whether or not he meant to kill the kid doesn't alter the fact that he was responsible for his death.
For the family to be disappointed it wasn't a murder charge is a bit tough. Manslaughter is there for those "caused death but not in a premeditated way, or by accident".
I'd hate to think what anarchy would rule if people were too scared to protect themselves (or property) for fear that they may inadvertently cause the death of the perpetrator! You may as well give crims an open cheque book for their activities since no one would be prepared to stand up to them.

You could also look at it from the perspective that if the boy had been home he wouldn't have crossed paths with an irate citizen; or that if he'd been out but not tagging then he would most likely still be alive. Yes, i accept that a life is more important than property but does that really mean that when trying to stop someone from defacing things you mustn't do anything other than ask them very politely to stop? You're more likely to end up getting the bash yourself.

But I am pleased that Emery didn't get off without any charge. That would have been terrible.

[Skyryder]

Jury have returned a "guilty of manslaughter" charge. I reckon that's the only reasonable thing they could have done. Whether or not he meant to kill the kid doesn't alter the fact that he was responsible for his death.
For the family to be disappointed it wasn't a murder charge is a bit tough. Manslaughter is there for those "caused death but not in a premeditated way, or by accident".
I'd hate to think what anarchy would rule if people were too scared to protect themselves (or property) for fear that they may inadvertently cause the death of the perpetrator! You may as well give crims an open cheque book for their activities since no one would be prepared to stand up to them.

You could also look at it from the perspective that if the boy had been home he wouldn't have crossed paths with an irate citizen; or that if he'd been out but not tagging then he would most likely still be alive. Yes, i accept that a life is more important than property but does that really mean that when trying to stop someone from defacing things you must do anything other than ask them very politely to stop? You're more likely to end up an extra victim yourself.

But I am pleased that Emery didn't get off without any charge. That would have been terrible.

Problably the right decision. On one hand if the boy had not been tagging he would not have lost his life but on the other I'm not sure when you are running away and you plunge a knife into someone how this is manslaughter. The problem with these verdicts is when a 'respectable' citizen is killed while trying to escape and the 'lowlife' gets the same verdict. Still it's sends a message, tag my property and all I'll get is a manslaughter charge.

Skyryder

[Finn]

Good outcome. Hopefully he'll only get community service or a small fine.

[firefighter]

hmmmm, I have my usual callous view towards this whole scenario- he did society a favour, the little fuck most likely would have grown up to be an even worse piece of shit than he already was, robbing, assaults etcetc, ruining other peoples lives, probably ending up in prison several times......so he just saved us some money and grief. No I don't condone what he did , but I don't care that he did it either, in fact if he got off it altogether that would make me happier, but in saying that- that would probably be a bit frightening too.

[MSTRS]

For the family to be disappointed it wasn't a murder charge is a bit tough. But it was a murder charge. With manslaughter as a backup. Jury obviously didn't think the murder charge was proven


Good outcome. Hopefully he'll only get community service or a small fine.

...and his knife back.

[icekiwi]

I know the guy as a local bussiness man and he is the sort of guy that wouldn't hurt a fly....good outcome lets just hope they give a reasonable sentence cause he did us all a favour folks,tagging around the area where we are based has come to a screaming stop.
What happened to him an his family is a crying fuckin shame an lets face it he only did what any of us would do in that situation...

[PrincessBandit]

But it was a murder charge. With manslaughter as a backup. .

oops, I meant that the murder charge wasn't upheld.
I can't help feeling just a teensy bit relieved. Get so sick and tired of criminals getting away with their shit at the expense of the poor lawabiding joe average. How many of us would secretly love to be able to take things into our own hands to deal with antisocial and p i t a behaviour by these people but restrain ourselves. The kid was obviously the straw that broke that camel's back.

[98tls]

I feel sorry for the guy to be honest,sure he took a life etc but hey.Strangly i couldnt be bothered feeling anything for the tagger that signed off.:niceone:Simple really,dont fuck with others stuff.

[Katman]

Yay for the Wild Wild South.

[Quasievil]

Point one, he wasnt protecting his property anymore he was in pursuit of the offender
Point two He was in a pursuit for retribution with a lethal weapon
Point three, afterwards he went home washed the knife, put it under his mattress and went to bed

I got no respect for taggers or scum of the earth, but just because he is a businessman I dont see how the above factors could result in a manslaughter charge, he took a knife to seek revenge and he got it, its murder plain and simple...........what did you say, he had no intent? BS a knife was taken in anger to fight not to cut a cake

All said with limited media knowledge of course.

lock him up, I dont know any reasonable people that cant put a knife into another human, he is not a reasonable person in my view and derserves the full force of the law.

Thats my view

[Katman]

I wonder which was the thought process going through his head at the time.

"You little fuck! I'll fucking kill you!" or

"You little fuck! I'll teach you a valuable lesson by carefully plunging this knife into you!"

I feel no sense of sadness for the kid's death (or for his family's loss) but I also feel no sense of relief for the decision to call it manslaughter instead of murder.

I feel more a sense of despair that this sort of thing can happen in our society and yet it barely raises an eyebrow.

(I only have a few more people to get out of Manurewa and then I can happily never set foot in the fucking shithole again).

[Quasievil]

an lets face it he only did what any of us would do in that situation...

No, I wouldnt run 300 mtres up a road with a knife and stab or in this situation kill a kid even if he was a little arsehole, and I seriously doubt many here would..........crazy steve excempted of course.

[98tls]

Simple really,dont fuck around with other peoples stuff,if he hadnt been out there doing his shit he would be happily inhaling glue as we type.Like it or not we have to get used to this sort of thing as i betcha theres much more to come.Methinks people have had enough of the little shits,and rightly so.In saying that why not just give him a beating rather than stab him?At least a beating may have taught him a lesson,killing him taught him nothing.(running for cover)

[MadDuck]

No, I wouldnt run 300 mtres up a road with a knife and stab or in this situation kill a kid even if he was a little arsehole, and I seriously doubt many here would.....

Agreed. I know what its like to be pushed and pushed and pushed by P heads who think they have a god given right to make everyone elses life miserable.

I have been thinking about getting a BB gun as a means of protection but now will not because it would be way too easy to get to the point of just wanting to have a go at the fuckers......not worth going to jail for.

[DUCATI*HARD]

i caught a tagger once,,,i was sitting outside around 2am and this car pulled right outside our house,,i seen him bob down by my fence and could hear this pisss,pisss,pisss,,,,(the sound of his spray can)i then ran out yelling,,,you little fucker,,,your gonna get it!!!as he realises hes just been sprung,he runs to his car and trys to take off,,,i then jump on his bonnet and jump up and down on it proceeding onto the roof,making a real mess off it,it looked like it had been thru a car compacter,,,even tried to kick his window in,,,meanwhile hes franticly shitting himself trying to start his car,,,the little homo managed to start her in time before i started on his face,,,have never been tagged again:banana:

[short-circuit]

Point one, he wasnt protecting his property anymore he was in pursuit of the offender
Point two He was in a pursuit for retribution with a lethal weapon
Point three, afterwards he went home washed the knife, put it under his mattress and went to bed

I got no respect for taggers or scum of the earth, but just because he is a businessman I dont see how the above factors could result in a manslaughter charge, he took a knife to seek revenge and he got it, its murder plain and simple...........what did you say, he had no intent? BS a knife was taken in anger to fight not to cut a cake

All said with limited media knowledge of course.

lock him up, I dont know any reasonable people that cant put a knife into another human, he is not a reasonable person in my view and derserves the full force of the law.

Thats my view

Yep - that's the way I see it too.

Whatever happenned to tough on crime/harsher sentences etc?

One rule for white businessmen another for everyone else?

[Headbanger]

Fuck him, He stabbed a kid to death.

He can burn in hell.

The lesser conviction is disgraceful.

[blossomsowner]

I have to agree with Quasi here...............once the kid has run off a decent way surely you are no longer protecting your property.


And I have nil tolerance for crims, vandals, taggers, etc and not much sympathy for him because he was out doing dumb stuff.

Its a hard one.........in the heat of the moment fighting to protect your family or property is ok.........but not a long chase

[sinned]

I would just like to point out a fact that seems to have been missed. There was a jury that listened to all the evidence presented and then took what seemed to be a long time to arrive at the verdict.

The jury system may not be perfect but I would trust it more than whatever is second best and KB justice.

[Storm]

I would just like to point out a fact that seems to have been missed. There was a jury that listened to all the evidence presented and then took what seemed to be a long time to arrive at the verdict.

The jury system may not be perfect but I would trust it more than whatever is second best and KB justice.

I'd be inclined to agree- all we know is whats in the media/public opinion, which, as Dennis so rightly points out, is definitely not what the jury heard.

[BIGBOSSMAN]

i caught a tagger once,,,i was sitting outside around 2am and this car pulled right outside our house,,i seen him bob down by my fence and could hear this pisss,pisss,pisss,,,,(the sound of his spray can)i then ran out yelling,,,you little fucker,,,your gonna get it!!!as he realises hes just been sprung,he runs to his car and trys to take off,,,i then jump on his bonnet and jump up and down on it proceeding onto the roof,making a real mess off it,it looked like it had been thru a car compacter,,,even tried to kick his window in,,,meanwhile hes franticly shitting himself trying to start his car,,,the little homo managed to start her in time before i started on his face,,,have never been tagged again:banana:


I too caught one a few years ago 'plying his trade' on a wall close to my old place in Glen Eden one night. It was excellent! He he he...

[JimO]

Fuck him, He stabbed a kid to death.

He can burn in hell.

The lesser conviction is disgraceful.

how did a 50 yo man catch 2 15 yo kids, obviously we wernt there but i can see this scenario happening...they run off hurling abuse he follows they "let" him catch them then turn on him to give him a beating, as they come at him he puts his hands out to fend them off, result 1 stabbed porch monkey....no great loss as far as im concerned there are hundreds of them out there buisy breeding more, and as for his so called family in court if they cared about him so much what were they doing whilst he was out smoking dak and vandalising peoples property

[Mom]

My spin.

Little shit was 15 years old. He was out and about (reported to be drinking and smoking dope) late at night. He was known (or his tags were) so this was not the first time he had been tagging. Where were his parents? Saw an interview with his mother tonight, she left to go to Australia, assume here Granny had the raising of him recently. He should have been better supervised. He did not however deserve to die. No way, no how, he is little shit, destructive with it and probably heading down a path that would have seen him in court facing some charge or other anytime soon. He did not deserve to die.

Why in hell would you leave your house armed with a knife when you saw someone tagging your garage door, no matter how many times it has happened before? A knife? That be a weapon in my books, when taken outside the house in those circumstances. There had to have been intent to use it or else why take it? Self defense? Ok, I buy that, but self defense would not have been needed if he had simply stayed inside. He went out looking for trouble, armed with a knife.

A young boy is dead, fact.

The killer did not mean to do it, apparently.

Manslaughter/Murder?

A jury of his peers have heard the evidence, and made their call. No one wins here.

[98tls]

My spin.

Little shit was 15 years old. He was out and about (reported to be drinking and smoking dope) late at night. He was known (or his tags were) so this was not the first time he had been tagging. Where were his parents? Saw an interview with his mother tonight, she left to go to Australia, assume here Granny had the raising of him recently. He should have been better supervised. He did not however deserve to die. No way, no how, he is little shit, destructive with it and probably heading down a path that would have seen him in court facing some charge or other anytime soon. He did not deserve to die.

Why in hell would you leave your house armed with a knife when you saw someone tagging your garage door, no matter how many times it has happened before? A knife? That be a weapon in my books, when taken outside the house in those circumstances. There had to have been intent to use it or else why take it? Self defense? Ok, I buy that, but self defense would not have been needed if he had simply stayed inside. He went out looking for trouble, armed with a knife.

A young boy is dead, fact.

The killer did not mean to do it, apparently.

Manslaughter/Murder?

A jury of his peers have heard the evidence, and made their call. No one wins here. As always,nice Mom,well put.

[Skyryder]

What happened to him an his family is a crying fuckin shame an lets face it he only did what any of us would do in that situation...

Well I for one would not run out armed with knife for no other reason that i might lose it and have it turned on myself.

While I posted earlier it was probably the right verdict I do have doubts.
But there is a wider issue here.

Three gangas were found guilty of 'murdering' Jhia' in the Wanganui drive by shooting, which was clearly an accident. So ganga's get found guilty of murder when the death is accidental but the respecatable buisness type gets a manslaughter verdict when chasing a tagger with a knife that results in death.
Am I missing soemthing here or what .

Ever since that driver who ran over a protester in Lyttelton a few years back and got off I always thought that guilty or not guily verdicts have nothing to do with evidence presented in court but more to do with the jurors morality and self rightousness.

Skyryder

[Mom]

I always thought that guilty or not guily verdicts have nothing to do with evidence presented in court but more to do with the jurors morality and self rightousness.
Skyryder

Or the caliber of your defense in some cases.

EDIT: Lawyer I mean :yes:

[Skyryder]

My spin.

Little shit was 15 years old. He was out and about (reported to be drinking and smoking dope) late at night. He was known (or his tags were) so this was not the first time he had been tagging. Where were his parents? Saw an interview with his mother tonight, she left to go to Australia, assume here Granny had the raising of him recently. He should have been better supervised. He did not however deserve to die. No way, no how, he is little shit, destructive with it and probably heading down a path that would have seen him in court facing some charge or other anytime soon. He did not deserve to die.

Why in hell would you leave your house armed with a knife when you saw someone tagging your garage door, no matter how many times it has happened before? A knife? That be a weapon in my books, when taken outside the house in those circumstances. There had to have been intent to use it or else why take it? Self defense? Ok, I buy that, but self defense would not have been needed if he had simply stayed inside. He went out looking for trouble, armed with a knife.

A young boy is dead, fact.

The killer did not mean to do it, apparently.

Manslaughter/Murder?

A jury of his peers have heard the evidence, and made their call. No one wins here.


How the hell do you get self defense when the dead boy was running away.

Some years back some burglers were stealing a farm bike and one got shot in the back.........dead. Farmer got off in self defense.

Now Mom I'm not unsympthetic with your post on this but it seems to me in light of the cases that I have mentioned it is the type of defendent that seems to be found guilty or not guilty whichever the case. Scot Watson is another case. Painted as a bad arse........found guilty under what is now consider by many as a wrongfull conviction.

But as said not entirely unsympathetic to your views


Skyryder

[98tls]

From my experiance these fuckers dont give a shit about you, your property,in fact pretty much all they give a shit about is being some "nigga rapping bad mofucker" there words not mine,if thats there dream then they dont remind me of any "child" ive met inawhile.Hey if they want to live that dream then fine i just cant be bothered with the woe is me shit when it goes bad.

[JimO]

How the hell do you get self defense when the dead boy was running away.

Some years back some burglers were stealing a farm bike and one got shot in the back.........dead. Farmer got off in self defense.

Now Mom I'm not unsympthetic with your post on this but it seems to me in light of the cases that I have mentioned it is the type of defendent that seems to be found guilty or not guilty whichever the case. Scot Watson is another case. Painted as a bad arse........found guilty under what is now consider by many as a wrongfull conviction.

But as said not entirely unsympathetic to your views


Skyryder


how about this then...anyone hurt/killed whilst commiting a illegal activity has no rights

[davereid]

By the age of 15, this young fella was already a serious problem in the community.

To suggest that a private citizen cannot, and should not, chase and confront a criminal is incorrect both in law and in principle.

In this case, once confronted, the criminal reacted violently, and as the private citizen was armed, the criminal has paid the price, rather than the other way around.

IMHO there should be no debate at all as to the chase. Indeed, I would suggest that it is the duty of all able bodied citizens to confront criminals, not just consider the job done when they run away.

Only in recent times, have police existed, only a bit over 100 years. Until then, all citizens were expected to sort criminals out, and indeed, the police were only citizens who got paid - they had no power or authority more than a normal citizen.

Even now, in N.Z. law, a private citizen has a clearly defined power of arrest, and self defence.

A private citizen can arrest without warrant, any criminal for any offence where the maximum penalty is a term of imprisonment is 5 years or greater.

Additionally, the citizen may use (the reasonable amount of) force required in self defence or to effect the arrest, in the circumstances as he reasonably believes them to be.

Exactly the same law as the police operate under.

I think this man was very unwise to confront the arsehole. Unwiser again to be carrying a blade.

But, had I been on the jury, I would have given him the thanks of the community, and sent him home to his family.

Same as if he was a policeman. Job well done, thank you.

[MadDuck]

...anyone hurt/killed whilst commiting a illegal activity has no rights

If you are dead you have no rights anyway.

[Tank]

how about this then...anyone hurt/killed whilst commiting a illegal activity has no rights

Jimjim for President !

[dipshit]

Some years back some burglers were stealing a farm bike and one got shot in the back.........dead. Farmer got off in self defense.

It was self defence. He was defending his property. You are allowed to defend yourself and your property... otherwise you may as well give the criminals the key to your front door and tell them to help themselves.

[98tls]

It was self defence. He was defending his property. You are allowed to defend yourself and your property... otherwise you may as well give the criminals the key to your front door and tell them to help themselves. I have no doubts the tree huggers will just about take us to that point sooner rather than later.There not really much difference in length of sentence handed out to a person who shoots someone guilty of home invasion compared to a person who fucks up peoples lives by commiting the offences of home invasion/assult/rape etc.....go figure.

[Hitcher]

The moment our newly-convicted friend left his house whilst carrying a knife suitable for impaling people upon, intent on deeds most foul, he had lowered himself to the level of his victim. By allowing a tagger to throw themselves upon said knife's pointed blade, he proved that he was an idiot of the first order.

He is lucky to have been convicted of manslaughter. I believe that he had intent, means and motive and should have been convicted of murder.

[Headbanger]

I fully support his right to chase the little fucker as far as he wants to, and to crack him around the skull.

I don't condone killing him, Its just a tad out of balance with the initial crime. His crime is far worse then the kids, and the kid was certainly no more misguided in his behaviour then his killer is.

String him up, that ends the matter.

[Hitcher]

It was self defence. He was defending his property. You are allowed to defend yourself and your property... otherwise you may as well give the criminals the key to your front door and tell them to help themselves.

Sensationalist bullshit. Accosting somebody in the street and stabbing them for allegedly writing their name on your garage door is not about "defending property", it's a malicious premeditated attack. The dead person was only a tagger, for heaven's sake. Let's keep things in perspective here.

[Headbanger]

Sensationalist bullshit. Accosting somebody in the street and stabbing them for allegedly writing their name on your garage door is not about "defending property", it's a malicious premeditated attack. The dead person was only a tagger, for heaven's sake. Let's keep things in perspective here.

Wasn't he referring to the farmer who shot someone riding away on his quad?

At least, that's the impression I had....

[Quasievil]

It was self defence. He was defending his property. You are allowed to defend yourself and your property... otherwise you may as well give the criminals the key to your front door and tell them to help themselves.

How could he defend his Property 300 metres away from it?

He had disturbed them they ran, thats when he defended his property, when he chased them with a knife that was a murder

[98tls]

Sensationalist bullshit. Accosting somebody in the street and stabbing them for allegedly writing their name on your garage door is not about "defending property", it's a malicious premeditated attack. The dead person was only a tagger, for heaven's sake. Let's keep things in perspective here. His only bad decision was picking up a knife,as in the interviews he said "why didnt i grab a broom handle" not that when confronting them a broom handle would have done much.This shit goes on all the time and is exactly why i keep and will continue to keep a basball bat close to every entry door in my house and if need be will use it even if i have to chase some scumbags a mile down the road if i find them fucking around with things i toil for.

[Hitcher]

Wasn't he referring to the farmer who shot someone riding away on his quad?

Don't know. Both are still crimes involving excessive force, and I believe that both are murder rather than manslaughter.

"Manslaughter" surely is a defence for an accidental situation that causes the death of another -- like reversing a car over the neighbour's three-year-old you neglected to see scurrying across your driveway. Killing somebody as a consequence of fannying around with a bloody great knife or loaded firearm is surely a different matter entirely.

[MadDuck]

His only bad decision was picking up a knife.

He did make one more bad decision....he used it

[Hitcher]

His only bad decision was picking up a knife,as in the interviews he said "why didnt i grab a broom handle" not that when confronting them a broom handle would have done much.

He was intent on revenge and on seriously hurting somebody. His attack was as premeditated as was his choice of weapon. If he had had a loaded firearm in his house, we would have most probably run down the street with that blazing away.

But we're clearly not talking about a mental giant here.

[98tls]

He did make one more bad decision....he used it Yep,was actually what i meant but no matter.

[98tls]

He was intent on revenge and on seriously hurting somebody. His attack was as premeditated as was his choice of weapon. If he had had a loaded firearm in his house, we would have most probably run down the street with that blazing away.

But we're clearly not talking about a mental giant here. I dunno mate,wasnt there.I agree he was intent on revenge and hurting someone but not sure on how premeditated it was ie how far it went,ive no idea what similar shit hes put up with in the past etc etc,i once met a bloke who had never been in a courthouse in his life,he came home one day to find his Mrs in the sack with someone else,what he did was pretty fucked up and at that time he still couldnt explain it,he was serving 7 years.Up until then he was just a normal Kiwi bloke with a family,job blah blah but he snapped for lack of a better word,maybe the guy in question had reached that point,who knows,then again who the fuck are we to pretend to.

[Mom]

How the hell do you get self defense when the dead boy was running away.

Skyryder

You cant mate. I was saying I may have believed a defense of "self defense" but... he went out with a knife, when all he had been threatened with was a young shit tagging his garage door. He took a knife to a spray can event.

Like I said...Jury heard the evidence, I didn't. No one wins.

[MadDuck]

i once met a bloke who had never been in a courthouse in his life,he came home one day to find his Mrs in the sack with someone else,what he did was pretty fucked up and at that time he still couldnt explain it,he was serving 7 years.Up until then he was just a normal Kiwi bloke with a family,job blah blah but he snapped for lack of a better word.

Damn that bought a shiver down my spine. When I was in my teens (ok thats a whole long time ago) a friend of mums came home and found his missus in bed. Shot her (he was a hunter type) as in his state he figured that women are to blame because men just ....well lets not go there.

He was a top bloke. I had no problems with him being in our house when he got out of prison. Just snapped.

[Ixion]

I fhe had not had the knife he would have been the dead one. I do not see that taking the knife amounts to premeditation. Simply a sensible precaution. I keep a Russian cavalry sabre beside the bed. If I have occasion to investigate strange noises at night I take it with me. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. So far I have not had occasion to use it, though some night soon there's going to be a headless cat running around.

Such incidents are an inevitable consequence of the police having abandoned even the pretence of maintaining the Rule of Law. Since householders must now look to themselves for defense of their families and property, they will naturally wish to make sure that they are not the defenceless victim. Kill, or be killed. That is what our society has degenerated to.

[Ixion]

You cant mate. I was saying I may have believed a defense of "self defense" but... he went out with a knife, when all he had been threatened with was a young shit tagging his garage door. He took a knife to a spray can event.

Like I said...Jury heard the evidence, I didn't. No one wins.

All very well in hindsight. Would you seriously argue that he could afford to assume that the intruders were not armed, and would not kill him without hesitation. There are many cases of householders who have been killed in exactly those circumstances. Taggers are not gentle little misunderstood waifs. They are brutal thugs.

[98tls]

You cant mate. I was saying I may have believed a defense of "self defense" but... he went out with a knife, when all he had been threatened with was a young shit tagging his garage door. He took a knife to a spray can event.

Like I said...Jury heard the evidence, I didn't. No one wins. This could so easily have worked out the other way round,guy chases two scumbags down the road who turn and confront him resulting in his death,hundreds of police hours wasted tracking them down blah blah blah with another "fucken scumbags" thread on the all knowing Kiwi Biker:yawn:Fills in an otherwise boring friday night but.

[Mom]

All very well in hindsight. Would you seriously argue that he could afford to assume that the intruders were not armed, and would not kill him without hesitation. There are many cases of householders who have been killed in exactly those circumstances. Taggers are not gentle little misunderstood waifs. They are brutal thugs.

No argument here, I agree, they are little thugs, and yes, they may well be armed, ergo, dont go out and chase them down the road with a knife.

[Ixion]

No argument here, I agree, they are little thugs, and yes, they may well be armed, ergo, dont go out and chase them down the road with a knife.

So, what then is he to do?

[dipshit]

Wasn't he referring to the farmer who shot someone riding away on his quad?

Yes I was. That is why you need to read the quote above. e.g...


Skyryder...
Some years back some burglers were stealing a farm bike and one got shot in the back.........dead. Farmer got off in self defense.

Me...
"It was self defence. He was defending his property. You are allowed to defend yourself and your property... otherwise you may as well give the criminals the key to your front door and tell them to help themselves."

See how a conversation works people..???

As far as the guy that killed the kid... it was a bit stupid on his part for screwing up his own life. When it comes to street justice the cops will advise you (off the record of course)... "just don't kill them for christ sake"

It wouldn't have made the news if he had just kicked seven colours of shit out of him.

[MadDuck]

So, what then is he to do?

It really didnt need to end in a death surely?

[Mom]

So, what then is he to do?

I cant answer that to anyones satisfaction. Ignore it, go out later and paint over the tagging, complain to the cops, yell out the window, bitch to your neighbours, any one of them or many others will still not answer the what is he to do question.

[98tls]

I he had not had the knife he would have been the dead one. I do not see that taking the knife amounts to premeditation. Simply a sensible precaution. I keep a Russian cavalry sabre beside the bed. If I have occasion to investigate strange noises at night I take it with me. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. So far I have not had occasion to use it, though some night soon there's going to be a headless cat running around.

Such incidents are an inevitable consequence of the police having abandoned even the pretence of maintaining the Rule of Law. Since householders must now look to themselves for defense of their families and property, they will naturally wish to make sure that they are not the defenceless victim. Kill, or be killed. That is what our society has degenerated to. I agree with everything you have said bar the police bit,my old lady works at the 111 center and can testify that our society has degenerated to such a point that on a thurs/fri/sat night there's that many fuckups doing fucked up shit that has to be acknowledged that there isnt and in her opinion never will be enough cops to ever make any indent to the public's perception that they have "abandoned etc"

[Ixion]

And as you tacitly admit, none of these will ahve the slightest deterrent effetc

Ignore it. Fine. And the next night? when the tagger, unchallenged decides to return and see if you have anything worth stealing? Or a daughter worth raping?

Complain to the cops. Yeah, right. That's going to go a long way. Maybe they'll send a taxi to take the tagger home.

Bitch to the neighbours. Save your breath they're in the same boat

Yell out the window - you are simply inviting him to extend tagging to home invasion.

Eveil unchallenged flourishes and moves on to greater evil.

Nowadays you cannot assume that a miscreant is "only" a tagger: "only" a burglar : "only" a rapist.

[Quasievil]

Stuff like this makes me think of my own youth, when I was 15, I was a right little bastard, got up to all soughts of mischief with my mates, infact I was a little trouble maker until I joined the army in the late eighties (they soughted me out) but (back on point) I will declare that some of the shit we got up to was a bit worse than a spray can painting and with that in mind I think if I was killed for my actions it would most definately be a little extreme, and would have taken away the glowing model citizen I am today (at least in my mind)
Hey we are all young and stupid at some period of our lives, most of us get the chance to live it out and become reasonable people, no one deserves to be killed for our troubled years.

So for me when people start saying , "he got what he deserved" etc etc I dont really see it that way.

I have two 14 year old boys, both young and dum and very impressionable, I would be very dissapointed if they got up to any tagging or other minor crimes, if they got killed for it by some knife welding 50 year old (that should know better) I would be completely devastated at the loss of a potentially fine young man who never had a chance to make a life, in this case as tragic as it is, I really feel that the victim got a raw deal in the court of one eyed justice.

I also wonder what the outcome would have been if the killer was a male Maori in Ponsonby who killed a white rich kid tagging.... manslaughter lol not likely

[dipshit]

when I was 15, I was a right little bastard, got up to all soughts of mischief with my mates, infact I was a little trouble maker...

...I have two 14 year old boys, both young and dum and very impressionable

Well if delinquency is hereditary then maybe you wouldn't have been such a loss.

[MadDuck]

Complain to the cops. Yeah, right. That's going to go a long way. Maybe they'll send a taxi to take the tagger home.

Our police are stretched thats for sure. Not their fault


Bitch to the neighbours. Save your breath they're in the same boat

Dont underestimate this communicating with the neighbours. As I was confronted on the street by a number of doped up thugs (in my sexy dressing gown)... they were watching and ready to come to my defence because we are aware of the problem.

[98tls]

Stuff like this makes me think of my own youth, when I was 15, I was a right little bastard, got up to all soughts of mischief with my mates, infact I was a little trouble maker until I joined the army in the late eighties (they soughted me out) but (back on point) I will declare that some of the shit we got up to was a bit worse than a spray can painting and with that in mind I think if I was killed for my actions it would most definately be a little extreme, and would have taken away the glowing model citizen I am today (at least in my mind)
Hey we are all young and stupid at some period of our lives, most of us get the chance to live it out and become reasonable people, no one deserves to be killed for our troubled years.

So for me when people start saying , "he got what he deserved" etc etc I dont really see it that way.

I have two 14 year old boys, both young and dum and very impressionable, I would be very dissapointed if they got up to any tagging or other minor crimes, if they got killed for it by some knife welding 50 year old (that should know better) I would be completely devastated at the loss of a potentially fine young man who never had a chance to make a life, in this case as tragic as it is, I really feel that the victim got a raw deal in the court of one eyed justice.

I also wonder what the outcome would have been if the killer was a male Maori in Ponsonby who killed a white rich kid tagging.... manslaughter lol not likely Good post Quasi,interesting thread really and though many of the posts are at opposites each has its merits.i have no idea if this guy had kids but if so it seems they have had there lives changed by a culmination of events that ended badly.

[KiwiKat]

Sensationalist bullshit. Accosting somebody in the street and stabbing them for allegedly writing their name on your garage door is not about "defending property", it's a malicious premeditated attack. The dead person was only a tagger, for heaven's sake. Let's keep things in perspective here.

Trying not to stereotype here but having to deal with youths like this everyday I know that the tension and stress caused by these thugs is extreme. They will purposefully push you to see what your limit is. It's a laugh. Don't buy into it.

There is very little than can legally be done to stop or correct their wayward ways. They know their rights and what they can get away with and even at 12 years of age they will intimidate adults both verbally and physically. Any response an adult takes against them can make the adult liable often for criminal and sometimes bogus charges. Kids like this don't respect you, your family or your property. If you are outside of their family, or caste you are nothing to them.

There are some awesome kids out there. But try living or working in a low decile area where you are confronted with this everyday. Most people just turn their back.

[Quasievil]

Well if delinquency is hereditary then maybe you wouldn't have been such a loss.

Shit thats not very nice dude, I forgot for a moment I was on KB, you reminded me, thanks

[MadDuck]

Stuff like this makes me think of my own youth, when I was 15, I was a right little bastard, got up to all soughts of mischief with my mates[

Jeez if I admitted the things I got up to in my youth on here I would probably be put to death with stones. The local plod knew us by name and if anything bad happened in the neighbourhood there would be a knock at the door.

Did I deserve to die for that? Some may say yes....but I dont think I turned out too bad given the circumstances. Some may disagree :bleh:

[98tls]

Trying not to stereotype here but having to deal with youths like this everyday I know that the tension and stress caused by these thugs is extreme. They will purposefully push you to see what your limit is. It's a laugh. Don't buy into it.

There is very little than can legally be done to stop or correct their wayward ways. They know their rights and what they can get away with and even at 12 years of age they will intimidate adults both verbally and physically. Any response an adult takes against them can make the adult liable often for criminal and sometimes bogus charges. Kids like this don't respect you, your family or your property. If you are outside of their family, or caste you are nothing to them.

There are some awesome kids out there. But try living or working in a low decile area where you are confronted with this everyday. Most people just turn their back. Reality at last.careful mate this is KB with posts like that your likely labelled a Knight or at least racist,its so much easier than calling a spade a spade and at least being realistic about the problem.

[Swoop]

It sounded like a "tag and release" fair-chase hunt...:chase:



If you are going to deliberately stab some fucker, you would thrust the whole knife in as far as it would go.
This knife only went in approximately one third of the length of the blade.
"Intent"??
"Stepped into the blade"??
Debateable.

[Ixion]

Stuff like this makes me think of my own youth, when I was 15, ..

Tinmes have changed. No doubt you were a right little bastige. And not the only one. But, would you EVER have seriously considered raping or murdering someone? Would ANYONE you knew? Didn't think so.

Nowadays, that's not true.

I don't believe that the convicted man went out intending to kill anyone. But, he went out into an unknown. And times being what they are, he took along a weapon to defend himself. And once weapons come into the picture it's horridly easy for someone to end up dead

Every so often , as I sleep the sleep of the godly and innocent (being a sweet gentle old man and all), Mrs Ixion will awaken me. "There's someone outside! They're trying to get into the house!" To Mrs Ixion, any noise at night is someone trying to get into the house. Me, my money's on the damned cat again. But, I can't be sure.

Now if there *is* someone out there, maybe it's "just" a tagger. And if an omnisicient genie could pop up and reassure me that "It's just a tagger. he's going to mess up your fence then move on, you'll never see him again", then I would roll over, grunt, and reply "I'll fix it in the morning". A tagger isn't worth risking my life, or his over.

But: I can't be sure. Nowadays, with home invasion almost a weekly event, who can say. So, I grumble, get up, and collect my aforesaid sabre, a purpose designed people killer. It's killed before , when I got it , there was a black deposit on the blade. I cleaned it and gave some of the deposit to a friend who works in a laboratory. Blood , she said.

If you out there are *only* a tagger, I don't want you killed on that ground. The penalty would be incommensurate to the crime. But, nowadays, I have to figure you've probably got your mates along. And maybe you are *only* taggers. And maybe not.

Tagging. Yeah, OK. I'll be pissed off. Irate. But it's not really the end of the world. But, cross the permeter of my home, threaten me or my family; that's another matter.And I don't *know* that you're "just" a tagger.

And, I also know that whoever you are, you've probably got some mates along.And, if I cross you and come off worse, I'll end up , at best, with my head stomped to the extent that I'll be a vegetable for the rest of my days. I don't like that idea. Not at all.

But, out I go into the night. Not much choice is there? And because I don't want to end up a vegetable, I'm going to take my people sticker with me. And , if things look dodgy, I'll use it.

I'm not saying it's the police's fault that the Rule of Law has collapsed. But, fault or no fault, it has. The police are no longer any use to a householder needing to protect his family or property. It's down to him. And the people threatening his home and family won't , in many cases ,hesitate to kill him. And he has no way of knowing whether the people he's confronting are killers or not (Go google 'Killer Beez" ) . So , he must prepare for the worst.

Fault doesn't come into it. Its' just reality. Whether the police cannot protect us, or will not protect us, does not matter. Either way, they're no longer part of the picture. The reality is that it's down to us. And I don't fancy being a vegetable. I suspect the guy that killed the kid thought the same way.

[MadDuck]

So you would happily got out there with your sabre....possibley resulting in you killing someone and leaving Mrs Ixion to face the rest of her life in fear?

[wbks]

Why would she live in fear because he killed someone? As for my take... Chasing him up the road isn't quite defending his property. I can't imagine someone you are chasing "falling" into your knife anyhow. Ever pressed the average kitchen knife into yourself? Unless your arm is stiff (i.e how it is when you stab someone) its actually quite hard to pierce the skin. Let alone enough to kill a kid

[PrincessBandit]

I fully support his right to chase the little fucker as far as he wants to, and to crack him around the skull.

I don't condone killing him, Its just a tad out of balance with the initial crime.
A crack around the skull could just as likely end in death as well, so how is your scenario any better than the one chosen? The kid could well have survived the knifing had things gone differently "on the night".



Such incidents are an inevitable consequence of the police having abandoned even the pretence of maintaining the Rule of Law. Since householders must now look to themselves for defense of their families and property, they will naturally wish to make sure that they are not the defenceless victim. Kill, or be killed. That is what our society has degenerated to.
Unfortunately the Police have far more serious crimes to deal with, especially here in South Auckland so tagging etc. doesn't really come too high up the priority list. This doesn't leave Mr and Mrs Citizen with many options when it comes to trying to maintain a nice environment to live in and bring their children up in when others are hell bent on scuzzifying it.


It really didnt need to end in a death surely?
No, but then a few millimetres/centimetres/inches difference of blade placement and there may well have not been a killing, "just" a knifing.



Hey we are all young and stupid at some period of our lives, most of us get the chance to live it out and become reasonable people, no one deserves to be killed for our troubled years.
...
I have two 14 year old boys, both young and dum and very impressionable, I would be very dissapointed if they got up to any tagging or other minor crimes, if they got killed for it by some knife welding 50 year old (that should know better)

Do you think that if they remotely thought that their actions could bring about a tragedy like this to your family that they might curb their actions at all? No? Then there is sadly no lesson learnt. You do shit, you may find yourself in a deeper dunny full of it than you bargain on.


Trying not to stereotype here but having to deal with youths like this everyday I know that the tension and stress caused by these thugs is extreme. They will purposefully push you to see what your limit is. It's a laugh. Don't buy into it.

There is very little than can legally be done to stop or correct their wayward ways. They know their rights and what they can get away with and even at 12 years of age they will intimidate adults both verbally and physically. Any response an adult takes against them can make the adult liable often for criminal and sometimes bogus charges. Kids like this don't respect you, your family or your property. If you are outside of their family, or caste you are nothing to them.

There are some awesome kids out there. But try living or working in a low decile area where you are confronted with this everyday. Most people just turn their back.
See it every day in high schools here. Some already at the age of 13 (even younger - there are some like it already at intermediate) whose are preoccupied with baiting, knowing full well there is absolutely stuff all you can do about it. They love it, knowing that your hands are tied. As a teacher it takes a lot of self control not to rise to the bait, but there are many times that even that in itself drives them to needle you even harder. Quite frustrating. A few you will finally reach by continuing to appeal to their better side, but many are not remotely interested in being a productive, cooperative member of school/society whatever.


Jeez if I admitted the things I got up to in my youth on here I would probably be put to death with stones. The local plod knew us by name and if anything bad happened in the neighbourhood there would be a knock at the door.

And therein lies a big difference MadDuck - communities are so widespread and transient these days that a certain degree of anonymity gives a lot of hoodlums a fair amount of protection. This coupled with the fact that many of them know that what they're doing often isn't of much interest or concern to the Police leaves them with pretty much a free hand to do what they like without fear of consequence. They rely heavily on the fact that the Police are overworked, under resourced, and simply have more "serious" issues to deal with.

[98tls]

Why would she live in fear because he killed someone? As for my take... Chasing him up the road isn't quite defending his property. I can't imagine someone you are chasing "falling" into your knife anyhow. Ever pressed the average kitchen knife into yourself? Unless your arm is stiff (i.e how it is when you stab someone) its actually quite hard to pierce the skin. Let alone enough to kill a kid Yea yea yea,if per chance you wake up look out the bedroom window to see some cunt fuckin with something of yours what would you do?Possibly say "no worries fella have a ball" but i doubt it.

[wbks]

No I would probably go ape shit but I don't think I would use a knife. I support that he went out there to deal to the little bastard...Not that he was lethal about it. Fuck, a punch in the face would suffice.

[Hitcher]

Use some imagination. There are plenty of other options than clubbing or stabbing somebody to death, or even putting yourself in danger.

[wbks]

Like calling the police?

[MadDuck]

And therein lies a big difference MadDuck - communities are so widespread and transient these days that a certain degree of anonymity gives a lot of hoodlums a fair amount of protection. This coupled with the fact that many of them know that what they're doing often isn't of much interest or concern to the Police leaves them with pretty much a free hand to do what they like without fear of consequence. They rely heavily on the fact that the Police are overworked, under resourced, and simply have more "serious" issues to deal with.

Yeah I guess I see where you are coming from. I moved away from Auckland to get away from the crap. Now I have had 5 nice years of peaceful living which was mighty fine I have to tell you. But it seems to be over.

The Orewa Police Station has become a major unit which it never was before. And thats nothing to do with the ATNR

[98tls]

No I would probably go ape shit but I don't think I would use a knife. I support that he went out there to deal to the little bastard...Not that he was lethal about it. Fuck, a punch in the face would suffice. Thats it mate,he didnt think,he just did.At sometime or another all of us would have done similar just different circumstances.

[dipshit]

Some already at the age of 13 (even younger - there are some like it already at intermediate) whose are preoccupied with baiting, knowing full well there is absolutely stuff all you can do about it.

Which must even make it more of a shock for them when one day they discover their actions do bring consequences.

[Ixion]

Use some imagination. There are plenty of other options than clubbing or stabbing somebody to death, or even putting yourself in danger.


Such as. You're asleep at night. You hear noises. Someone's forcing your ranchsliders (or whatever). What are your "other options"

[wbks]

Doesn't really justify it though. Someone once discovered who had been burgling their house 3 times in a row and then just boured some kind of engineers acid all over their flash ricer...That did the trick. I think that might be creative?

[Sollyboy]

Good outcome. Hopefully he'll only get community service or a small fine.

Yes I hope he gets off lightly , he must be driven to insanity by those little shits.
And those parents should only be dissapoint themselves for not watching their kids

[Fatt Max]

What happened to him an his family is a crying fuckin shame an lets face it he only did what any of us would do in that situation...

I think you have hit it right on the head with that comment.

Obviously a young kid dying is a tragedy, lets not forget that but society is getting to the point that sometimes the average Joe has to say enough is enough.

The question about going after him with a screwdriver does raise a few points, specifically the 'intention' but you know the guy and know that this was out of character so in some ways it goes towards explaining his mind set at the time.

I have come across lots of similar events in the UK, especially central London but thankfully NZ has a hell of a long way to go before we get to the state of that place.

It reinforces the fact that more and more decent people have had enough of the youth crime wave and are not afraid to stand up.

Well said sir

[98tls]

I think you have hit it right on the head with that comment.

Obviously a young kid dying is a tragedy, lets not forget that but society is getting to the point that sometimes the average Joe has to say enough is enough.

The question about going after him with a screwdriver does raise a few points, specifically the 'intention' but you know the guy and know that this was out of character so in some ways it goes towards explaining his mind set at the time.

I have come across lots of similar events in the UK, especially central London but thankfully NZ has a hell of a long way to go before we get to the state of that place.

It reinforces the fact that more and more decent people have had enough of the youth crime wave and are not afraid to stand up.

Well said sir Young kid?At 15 i was working owned a bike and no matter what shit i did i never fucked around with other peoples shit,interesting comments on the UK mate as in my opinion we get well closer every day.Sadly.

[wbks]

Fatt Max...You're gona cop it after that post, mate.

[MadDuck]

So I have people high on drugs outside my place doing donuts

Do I:

Call the cops?
Go plant some nails?
Or go out there with a knife?

[roy.nz]

Feel sorry for the guy and kid that it had to be like this but its a fair decision i think. Feel sorry for both familys because they have both lost loved ones now maybe one longer than the other,but its stil a loss. :mellow:

[PrincessBandit]

So I have people high on drugs outside my place doing donuts

Do I:

Call the cops?
Go plant some nails?
Or go out there with a knife?

Put on some heavy duty earphones,get the biggest baddest loudest stereo system you can lay your hands on and blast them with Richard Clayderman or Barry Manilow or the Birdie dance over and over and over until they can't stand it anymore and flee!

[wbks]

Well I was thinking the knife sounds fun but manilo is just brutal. All the better! But its not your property theyre harming either

[98tls]

So I have people high on drugs outside my place doing donuts

Do I:

Call the cops?
Go plant some nails?
Or go out there with a knife? None of the above,personally i would walk out my front door picking up the baseball bat i leave (as i posted earlier) there and ask em to fuck off, from my gate,if as i would assume they take no notice/tell me to fuck off i would walk out and smash the windscreen of by then the non donuting (spelling)vehicle and take it from there,at least by then boundries have been established:niceone:If per chance i as i go under i have the misfortune to end ones life then at least i will go under happy in the knowledge that there may well be a meaningless debate on KB about it.

[Headbanger]

I chased some fuckers off my property, They ran up my drive, jumped in a car waiting parked across my driveway entrance, and went to roar off.

They stalled.

I stopped, Car was full to the brim of fuckers ,all of them uglier then I'll ever be....Gave them the meanest stare I could while they stared back and the driver fucked around getting the car started and roared off.....

No use in escalating a shit situation into a death situation.

[98tls]

I chased some fuckers off my property, They ran up my drive, jumped in a car waiting parked across my driveway entrance, and went to roar off.

They stalled.

I stopped, Car was full to the brim of fuckers ,all of them uglier then I'll ever be....Gave them the meanest stare I could while they stared back and the driver fucked around getting the car started and roared off.....

No use in escalating a shit situation into a death situation. No doubt thats put them off messing with other peoples lives for good.:sweatdrop

[MisterD]

While I posted earlier it was probably the right verdict I do have doubts.
But there is a wider issue here.

Three gangas were found guilty of 'murdering' Jhia' in the Wanganui drive by shooting, which was clearly an accident. So ganga's get found guilty of murder when the death is accidental but the respecatable buisness type gets a manslaughter verdict when chasing a tagger with a knife that results in death.
Am I missing soemthing here or what .

My POV on that is that they fired shots into the house in the full knowledge that people were in there and likely to be seriously injured or killed if hit - the fact that the actual victim was a baby that they wouldn't have wanted to kill is irrelevant.

[The Stranger]

He was intent on revenge and on seriously hurting somebody. His attack was as premeditated as was his choice of weapon.


You know this?
You were there?
Perhaps he was determined to apprehend the perp and took the knife for self defence as he knew that should he corner a wild animal and it will often fight back and didn't feel confident his fists would suffice. I've held arsehole until the Police arrived before, this may have been his intent.

I don't know, I wasn't there, however your statements of "fact" are somewhat sensational.

[1 Free Man]

I feel sorry for the guy to be honest,sure he took a life etc but hey.Strangly i couldnt be bothered feeling anything for the tagger that signed off.:niceone:Simple really,dont fuck with others stuff.
I'm sure the tagger didn't mean to deface the guys property just as the guy didn't mean to kill him so IMHO is just a case of "OOP'S sorry buddy didn't mean to kill Ya" and the guy should have been let off with a warning "Not to stab taggers" and maybe slapped with a wet bus ticket for good measure.
Your right "Don't fuck with others stuff".

[JimO]

for those that say ..he was ONLY tagging, what if he was ONLY fucking around with your bike, would you chase him 300m then deal to him...bet ya would

[PrincessBandit]

Such as. You're asleep at night. You hear noises. Someone's forcing your ranchsliders (or whatever). What are your "other options"

Allow your beloved dog to protect his family and then watch as that same dearly loved pet is put down for "attacking" the "alleged" intruder.

wbks: As for Manilow being a bit harsh, "they weren't actually on your property" (can't quite remember how you worded it, sorry) does that mean that we have no right to a peaceful night's sleep or to protect our neighbourhood because the donut boys are performing their "art" in a public place i.e.which they have every right to be in? With the way our laws seem to work these days anyone has every right to be wherever they damned well please, including those with ill intent on your private property!

[dipshit]

Allow your beloved dog to protect his family and then watch as that same dearly loved pet is put down for "attacking" the "alleged" intruder.



Thief Vs Pitbull... (warning, very graphic image)

Shame the person had to find out the hard way that their actions do have consequences.

[jrandom]

what if he was ONLY fucking around with your bike, would you chase him 300m then deal to him...bet ya would

I'm quite sure that a decent bellow from me would have pretty much any bike fucker-arounder-with sprinting away as fast as their little legs could toddle. And I doubt they'd return. Also, I would reconsider my security arrangements after such an incident.

Anyhoo, the criminal underclass is like one of those whack-a-mole carnival games - put one down and two more pop up.

So there's no point trying to wallop it into goodness one coconut at a time.

[wbks]

Thief Vs Pitbull... (warning, very graphic image)

Shame the person had to find out the hard way that their actions do have consequences.Good god :shit:
I'm guessing he didn't get up again:baby:

[PrincessBandit]

Yes, well whip me with a feather duster, that's not quite the "family pet dog" I had in mind!!!

[MD]

How the hell do you get self defense when the dead boy was running away.

Skyryder
Correction to Skyryder's comment.
To me this may be the crux of the matter that swayed the Jury.
The Tagger (Kid) wasn't running away when stabbed. The tagger was stabbed in the chest, not the back, after he turned and ADVANCED with fists up on the Man, while his mate was trying to spray the Man in the face -as admitted by the mate in court. This changed of scenario and made the preceding tagging and chase secondary issues. The issue I suspect the Jurors had to decide on was that moment in the dark street where one Man was confronted by two. The Man would not know if they had other mates about to leap into the attack, he wouldn't know what weapons they were about to use. This makes a more compelling self-defence case.

I've done a few jury services and it's rarely a simple clear cut decision as it first appears.

Yes, as some have pointed out, he was enraged, he did grab a deadly weapon BUT, how are the jurors supposed to judge what was going through his mind at that instant. They can't. Maybe he only wanted the knife for show to scare them or genuinely for self-defence. The Man can't be sentenced for the crime of grabbing a deadly weapon and pursuing crims damaging his property. Had he stabbed them in the back- clear cut murder. There is no rule that a victim is only a victim within 299m of the offence, beyond that point the Victim's status changes to offender/attacker.

But in saying all this, to pick up a knife was a very stupid choice and letting the knife get stuck into a vital body part is beyond careless to me. If he was just scared then a quick flick across the attackers arms maybe, but not directing it towards the heart area.

I've just seen fresh tagging right across someones double garage doors locally, on a fairly recently painted house/garage!
It made me furious.
I've had my fence tagged. If the Police had come round and told me they ran under a bus I would have atleast been smiling as I spent hours repainting my fence.

[geoffm]

Legally, it might have been the right verdict, but I used to live along the road from the scene, until I managed to escape. I avoid going back. The old guy did the world and the taxpayer a favour. The kid had a long history and the only way was down.
It is pretty rich of the polcie to say that they should be called in cases like this. They never turn up, let alone investigate and catch anyone. the only way they ever solve "minor" crime is by the cons discovering religion then going and confessing. Soft justice system won't do anything anyway.

Interesting to see that tagging in that area is waaaay down..... It would have bene interesting to be on the jury for that one and what decision you would make. Look up "jury nullification"

[Kickaha]

Anyhoo, the criminal underclass is like one of those whack-a-mole carnival games - put one down and two more pop up.

So there's no point trying to wallop it into goodness one coconut at a time.

Just means someone needs to come up with an efficient way of killing a whole lot of them off at once

[Katman]

I've done a few jury services and it's rarely a simple clear cut decision as it first appears.


I have also done jury service and know for a fact that although instructed otherwise jury members often make decisions based on their own emotions and personal sentiments and whether they feel 'sorry' for the defendant.

[Skyryder]

My POV on that is that they fired shots into the house in the full knowledge that people were in there and likely to be seriously injured or killed if hit - the fact that the actual victim was a baby that they wouldn't have wanted to kill is irrelevant.


You raise and interesting and perhaps a valid point.


But where one veiw is expressed there is always the counter arguement.

As there was no intended victim other than a 'random' one it could be argued that any victim of a drive by shooting may at best get off a murder conviction with a manslaughter one as the indaviuals death coube argued as accidental. If this did happen then it would be a mockery of the justice system and on that basis I agree that a murder conviction would be the appropiate and only verdict of any drive by shooting. But and say but with some hesitation I make the assumption that the target of the drive by shooting would have been an adult. On this basis I still hold my original opinon that Jhia's death was an accident as she was not of an age to be the intended victim. On this basis I still hold the view that a murder conviction with the ganga's is at odds with a manslaughter conviction of the buisnessman who was also charged with the murder and in active pursuit of the victim with a knife.

Still your point is taken.

Skyyrder

[kevfromcoro]

Thief Vs Pitbull... (warning, very graphic image)

Shame the person had to find out the hard way that their actions do have consequences.
SHIT

Thats grafic allright
did a pitpull do that...

[wbks]

Nah he just posted a picture of a rabid pitbull next to a man with his face ripped of for the sheer joy of it...

[scumdog]

Fuck him, He stabbed a kid to death.

He can burn in hell.

The lesser conviction is disgraceful.

Hardly looks like he meant to kill the little prick, I mean one stab and then runs off and leaves the twat still on his feet??

Obviously the white middle-class working man failed murder 101 eh...

AND if the dead twat had got the upper hand I bet HE would have got off with manslaughter - even if he stabbed whitey a dozen times.

[Hitcher]

Goodness me, I find myself agreeing with Skyrider.

I too fail to see how somebody who left their property with a lethal weapon and intent to use it could be convicted of manslaughter and looking at home detention, while somebody else who left home with a lethal weapon and no proven intent to use it could be convicted of murder and looking at serious jail time. The Sensible Sentencing Trust's position on each of these two crimes astounds me. I am unclear as to whether the SST values property higher than human life, is racist, or both.

[scumdog]

Goodness me, I find myself agreeing with Skyrider.

I too fail to see how somebody who left their property with a lethal weapon and intent to use it could be convicted of manslaughter and looking at home detention, while somebody else who left home with a lethal weapon and no proven intent to use it could be convicted of murder and looking at serious jail time. The Sensible Sentencing Trust's position on each of these two crimes astounds me. I am unclear as to whether the SST values property higher than human life, is racist, or both.

I gather there was an admission he 'intended to use' the knife??
As in 'to kill' as opposed to 'frighten' or 'defend'???

Or in idbs words 'have I misread the post'?

[BMWST?]

You raise and interesting and perhaps a valid point.


But where one veiw is expressed there is always the counter arguement.

As there was no intended victim other than a 'random' one it could be argued that any victim of a drive by shooting may at best get off a murder conviction with a manslaughter one as the indaviuals death coube argued as accidental. If this did happen then it would be a mockery of the justice system and on that basis I agree that a murder conviction would be the appropiate and only verdict of any drive by shooting. But and say but with some hesitation I make the assumption that the target of the drive by shooting would have been an adult. On this basis I still hold my original opinon that Jhia's death was an accident as she was not of an age to be the intended victim. On this basis I still hold the view that a murder conviction with the ganga's is at odds with a manslaughter conviction of the buisnessman who was also charged with the murder and in active pursuit of the victim with a knife.

Still your point is taken.

Skyyrder

utter utter bullshit....they had gone home,they had picked up a .303,they had driven back to that house with a premeditated intent on shooting someone...thats MURDER....the emery /tagging thing is one instants reaction .....he picks up the knife on impulse to chase the taggers....which turns to shit when they turn on him...

[Hitcher]

utter utter bullshit....they had gone home,they had picked up a .303,they had driven back to that house with a premeditated intent on shooting someone...thats MURDER....the emery /tagging thing is one instants reaction .....he picks up the knife on impulse to chase the taggers....which turns to shit when they turn on him...

Both scenarios "turned to shit". Weapons were carried in both, for reasons best known to those who carried them. There were deaths in both scenarios -- one as the result of a rifle being discharged at a house, the other we are supposed to believe as the result of a tagger throwing himself onto a knife. I believe that these are the same crime, with significantly different outcomes in terms of the sentences our justice system has handed down.

[PrincessBandit]

Both scenarios "turned to shit". Weapons were carried in both, for reasons best known to those who carried them. There were deaths in both scenarios -- one as the result of a rifle being discharged at a house, the other we are supposed to believe as the result of a tagger throwing himself onto a knife. I believe that these are the same crime, with significantly different outcomes in terms of the sentences our justice system has handed down.

I normally don't disagree with things you post Hitcher, but I think there is quite a big difference superficially between the two cases. The drive by shooting was clearly premeditated - you don't go home, pick up a rifle for no reason, and return to your place of intended crime. If the group of them had been firing rounds on their own property and the wee girl and her family had happened to be on an adjoining piece of land with a shot gone astray then yes there is the case for manslaughter perhaps. People don't go home for a rifle complete with loaded rounds just to scare someone. (Totally different if you're on a farm and have a loaded rifle in my book before the bloke who shot the quad bike thief gets brought up).
It is completely convincing that Emery grabbed his fishing knife, going into the dark unknown, not being sure how many could be out there, only knowing he was sick and tired of his community being trashed and perhaps he could be proactive in showing that people aren't afraid to defend it. Let's face it - almost anything could be argued to be a lethal weapon if the circumstances turn sufficiently to shit.

[sinned]

I believe that these are the same crime, with significantly different outcomes in terms of the sentences our justice system has handed down.
And I am comfortable about that.

[98tls]

Hardly looks like he meant to kill the little prick, I mean one stab and then runs off and leaves the twat still on his feet??

Obviously the white middle-class working man failed murder 101 eh...

AND if the dead twat had got the upper hand I bet HE would have got off with manslaughter - even if he stabbed whitey a dozen times. How apt,just returned from a Sunday session with a few mates at the local boozer,got a bit out of hand,had a group of Maori blokes talking about the very thing,no problem apart from the fact it was all we could hear as one of them was pretty loud with the racist stuff,i went to the bar when my round this fucker puts his arm around me and asks "how are you my brother" i replied "my brother died years ago" and this new found brother assumed the warrior stance (gene thing they tell me) before i had a chance to waste my newly bought jug on his head he disappeared from view as a mate had grabbed his rather long pony tail and gave it a yank,in fact such a yank as to send him backwards into a back flip which resulted in him making a mess of our table,chaos ensued ending in "my toothless brother and his tribe" calling me a racist..........go figure.Fuck him,the sooner(if ever) the rest of NZ wakes up the better off we will all be.

[wbks]

Leave them alone. Like you said, its the warrior gene! :)
Btw where the hell was all this going on. Australia?

[98tls]

Leave them alone. Like you said, its the warrior gene! :)
Btw where the hell was all this going on. Australia? Na mate small town NZ.Thank fuck said warrior had a customary pony tail or things may well have ended in a different way.

[marioc]

wtf Australia...you havin a laugh?
In other news if you go around fucking peoples shit up and someone goes postal at you...then this is what might happen.
A bit like riders who think they are bulletproof and end up in the ground.
Its natural selection at work once again.
Suprised the old bill have not stitched him right up though.

[wbks]

Nah they just sounded quite a bit like (ok sorry for this pretty racist coment) more than a few of the maoris over in aus ive been around. always talking about being maori and maori stuff. Pretty bold over there, too. This is way off topic anyway. But yea maybe i'm a little less "aww that bastard we are all young some time" then some people because the guy that got stabbed is not much younger than me but i think if you screw with other peoples stuff then you get what you're dealt for that. So in otherwords tough shit too bad you didn't get a stern talking to instead. Especially the gangster tagging type clowns. Like fucking rats

[SARGE]

I got no respect for taggers or scum of the earth, but just because he is a businessman I dont see how the above factors could result in a manslaughter charge, he took a knife to seek revenge and he got it, its murder plain and simple...........what did you say, he had no intent? BS a knife was taken in anger to fight not to cut a cake

i often take a defensive weapon outside with me when i hear something dodgy ...ballbat.. powerbar.. Kabar..dont know how many will be outside and what drugs they may be on.... yea.. i'll do some time and i'd wear it as a badge of honor that i was defending my family and my "castle"



lock him up, I dont know any reasonable people that cant put a knife into another human, he is not a reasonable person in my view and derserves the full force of the law.



im a reasonable person.. quite capable of doing it and have done on several occasions.. its not fun the first few times.. then it becomes clinical where you start looking for the fastest quietest way of doing it..


From Wiki



A Castle Doctrine (also known as a Castle Law or a Defense of Habitation Law) is an American legal concept derived from English Common Law, which designates one's place of residence (or, in some states, any place legally occupied, such as one's car or place of work) as a place in which one enjoys protection from illegal trespassing and violent attack. It then goes on to give a person the legal right to use deadly force to defend that place (his/her "castle"), and/or any other innocent persons legally inside it, from violent attack or an intrusion which may lead to violent attack. In a legal context, therefore, use of deadly force which actually results in death may be defended as justifiable homicide under the Castle Doctrine.

Castle Doctrines are legislated by state, and not all states in the US have a Castle Doctrine. The term "Make My Day Law" comes from the landmark 1985 Colorado statute that protects people from any criminal charge or civil suit if they use force - including deadly force - against an invader of the home.[1] The law's nickname is a reference to the famous line uttered by Clint Eastwood's character Dirty Harry in the 1983 film Sudden Impact, "Go ahead, make my day."

This legal doctrine is often linked to the rights of homeowners to bear arms, as defined in the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution in the case of District of Columbia v. Heller.

[marioc]

Stabbed a few punters in your time then?
You sound like you have seen some shit.
Special forces?

[SARGE]

Stabbed a few punters in your time then?
You sound like you have seen some shit.
Special forces?

tuba player with a drinking problem......:Oops:

[Skyryder]

utter utter bullshit....they had gone home,they had picked up a .303,they had driven back to that house with a premeditated intent on shooting someone...thats MURDER....the emery /tagging thing is one instants reaction .....he picks up the knife on impulse to chase the taggers....which turns to shit when they turn on him...


Well the jury obvoulsy agrees, but then if this was one ganga tagging another's fence and the same manslaughter verdict was the result of the jurys deliberation imagine the howls of outrage. Speculative on my part.............yes........... as I doubt very much this scenario would ever happen.


Skyryder

[imdying]

No one wins here.Oh I don't know... pretty good result for the general population; that's one little muppet that isn't going to be tagging any more fences.

[1 Free Man]

Just means someone needs to come up with an efficient way of killing a whole lot of them off at once
Easy! exploding paint cans. Just blow the little fuckers to bits.
If they push the buttons on the cans and they get blown to bits it can be regarded as suicide.

[Patrick]

If the guy hadn't taken the knife with him, who would want to bet that there would have been two teenagers facing a murder charge about now?

[firefighter]

If the guy hadn't taken the knife with him, who would want to bet that there would have been two teenagers facing a murder charge about now?

Exactly, or would have in the not so distant future.

It's a shame the poor guy did'nt get bail.

[98tls]

If the guy hadn't taken the knife with him, who would want to bet that there would have been two teenagers facing a murder charge about now? Then again if he had slowed down,thought about things there would have been two dead teens,though i use the term teens loosely,all tree hugging aside the 2 of them had a minimum chance of achieving worthy of breathing status.Scumbuckets both.Still 50% isnt to bad.

[Headbanger]

Hardly looks like he meant to kill the little prick, I mean one stab and then runs off and leaves the twat still on his feet??

Obviously the white middle-class working man failed murder 101 eh...

.

Aye?, he excelled at it, killed him with one thrust, How much better can you get?

Sure, If your going for style you could draw it out a bit, a few stabs here,a few stabs there, a poke in the eye ball, whatever.

But as far as confronting someone on the street, and killing them, he nailed it.

Now put him in Jail.



That aside, which part of stabbing someone in the heart is hardly trying to kill?

[98tls]

Aye?, he excelled at it, killed him with one thrust, How much better can you get?

Sure, If your going for style you could draw it out a bit, a few stabs here,a few stabs there, a poke in the eye ball, whatever.

But as far as confronting someone on the street, and killing them, he nailed it.

Now put him in Jail.



That aside, which part of stabbing someone in the heart is hardly trying to kill? Who cares?In part i agree with the deceased guys Aunty "theres no winners here".Looking at the big picture at least,though just a drop in a big sea it shows scumbuckets that fucking around with other peoples shit can end painfully.

[scumdog]

That aside, which part of stabbing someone in the heart is hardly trying to kill?

I doubt he was a trained shiv-man who knew where the heart was and knew a single shallow thrust would see the idjit walk off for a bit before he bit the dust.

Still, you never know, maybe he DID know all this?? :crazy:

(As likely as KB being free from binners, ranter and morons )

[Headbanger]

I doubt he was a trained shiv-man who knew where the heart was and knew a single shallow thrust would see the idjit walk off for a bit before he bit the dust.

Still, you never know, maybe he DID know all this?? :crazy:

(As likely as KB being free from binners, ranter and morons )

Maybe he just knew the basics (insert knife into chest) and the rest was pure luck?

Though your chances of killing someone by stabbing them in the area of their heart would have to be pretty good wouldn't they?

[98tls]

I doubt he was a trained shiv-man who knew where the heart was and knew a single shallow thrust would see the idjit walk off for a bit before he bit the dust.

Still, you never know, maybe he DID know all this?? :crazy:

(As likely as KB being free from bonners, ranter and morons ) And tassels............don't forget tassels.

[scumdog]

Maybe he just knew the basics (insert knife into chest) and the rest was pure luck?

Though your chances of killing someone by stabbing them in the area of their heart would have to be pretty good wouldn't they?

You would think that if there was intent to KILL he would have at least given him the whole length of the blade and/or a few more pokes..

[Headbanger]

You would think that if there was intent to KILL he would have at least given him the whole length of the blade and/or a few more pokes..

I think his intent was to stab the fucker, and the outcome was death. A highly likely outcome when your stabbing someone in the chest.

You bring a knife, You raise the stakes.

[scumdog]

I think his intent was to stab the fucker, and the outcome was death. A highly likely outcome when your stabbing someone in the chest.

You bring a knife, You raise the stakes.

True.

But still a long way from intending to kill.

A guy down here stabbed another guy THREE times under the arm into the chest - still got only done for manslaughter.

[98tls]

I think his intent was to stab the fucker, and the outcome was death. A highly likely outcome when your stabbing someone in the chest.

You bring a knife, You raise the stakes. Lets not forget the scumbucket played the first hand by leaving home intent on fucking round with shit he didn't own,the guy raised him and he folded.......so to speak.As a continuation of said theory at least the outcome of this particular mindless scumbucket shit turns there pastimes into a game of Russian roulette.Do this there the guy will kill me,do it down the road maybe not.

[Headbanger]

Lets not forget the scumbucket played the first hand by leaving home intent on fucking round with shit he didn't own,the guy raised him and he folded.......so to speak.As a continuation of said theory at least the outcome of this particular mindless scumbucket shit turns there pastimes into a game of Russian roulette.

My point is just that the guy fucked up, fucked up big time. Raised the stakes and now everybody pays.

A severe beating would have sorted it.


My neighbours are mostly elderly, I keep an eye and an ear out, I move fuckers along when required, once that's done the issue is over.No need to stab and kill people.

[98tls]

My point is just that the guy fucked up, fucked up big time. Raised the stakes and now everybody pays.

A severe beating would have sorted it.


My neighbours are mostly elderly, I keep an eye and an ear out, I move fuckers along when required, once that's done the issue is over.No need to stab and kill people. Yep agreed as i posted earlier.Similar to me actually in that theres a group of old folks flats across from me,was over there earlier delivering my favourite old girl a couple of freshly caught Salmon,she squeals with delight every time which alone is worth the effort.

[Hitcher]

Lets not forget the scumbucket played the first hand by leaving home intent on fucking round with shit he didn't own,the guy raised him and he folded.......so to speak.As a continuation of said theory at least the outcome of this particular mindless scumbucket shit turns there pastimes into a game of Russian roulette.Do this there the guy will kill me,do it down the road maybe not.

What a lot of nonsense. If vigilante justice meted out by red necks with short fuses is the answer, god save us all.

[98tls]

What a lot of nonsense. If vigilante justice meted out by red necks with short fuses is the answer, god save us all. Wtf has god got to do with it?Wake up or not its no matter to me as long as its your shite they fuck around with and not mine,if it is then i will deal with it as i see fit.The redneck tag is growing tiresome, though expected on here,shows nothing more than an equally tiresome refusal to accept reality.Ironic isnt it.Tell you what,next time theres some scumbuckets down my way intent on trashing something i will send them your way and you can give them a hug,tell them its not there fault and send them on there way,chuck some change there way for a fresh can if you like.

[Hitcher]

Wtf has god got to do with it?Wake up or not its no matter to me as long as its your shite they fuck around with and not mine,if it is then i will deal with it as i see fit.The redneck tag is growing tiresome, though expected on here,shows nothing more than an equally tiresome refusal to accept reality.Ironic isnt it.Tell you what,next time theres some scumbuckets down my way intent on trashing something i will send them your way and you can give them a hug,tell them its not there fault and send them on there way,chuck some change there way for a fresh can if you like.

If the red neck tag fits...

If you want to kill people who tag your garage or front fence, irritating that may be, then I'm not going to stop you. Just don't expect any suppport from me or the justice system if you're caught.

Something equally tiresome is a childish habit of not putting a space after punctuation, particularly fullstops.

[98tls]

If the red neck tag fits...

If you want to kill people who tag your garage or front fence, irritating that may be, then I'm not going to stop you. Just don't expect any suppport from me or the justice system if you're caught.

Something equally tiresome is a childish habit of not putting a space after punctuation, particularly fullstops. :doh:The punctuation thing at least gives me a chuckle.I dont want to kill anyone Hitch but at the same time i dont want shit i work for fucked around with and if it happens and i see it i will do something about it,doing nothing achieves nothing.Do nothing only invites worse.

[davereid]

If you want to kill people who tag your garage or front fence, irritating that may be, then I'm not going to stop you. Just don't expect any suppport from me or the justice system if you're caught.


I don't have the right to kill people who tag my fence or garage.

But I can't be sure thats all he is doing. He might just be having a pee. Or he might be breaking in to steal my V8.

But I do have the right to confront them.

Actually, I would be very uncomfortable with myself if I didn't !.

Even if they run away I have the right to chase them - if I don't, all I have done is move them, un-dealt with to your place, or my mothers place.

My intentions are both legal, and non violent.

However, I read the papers. I know that burglars, hitch-hikers and taxi-passengers regularly bash - knife - shoot people doing legal, non-violent things.

So by taking a weapon, I'm not escalating things, I'm not planning to murder them, I'm just demonstrating common sense.

[jrandom]

What this case mostly shows, IMHO, is that knives are a terrible choice of weapon for self-defence.

And, whilst I disagree with Hitcher's "I live in Ngaio, so I don't have to worry about darkies" stance on whether law-abiding citizens should be allowed to arm themselves, I find it very difficult to see how pursuing a pair of fleeing taggers for a couple of hundred metres with a lethal weapon counts as 'self defence'.

However, it's disingenuous to equate what the dude in this case did with a gang-related shooting. He armed himself, yes, but obviously the jury was convinced that he didn't go forth with the intention of killing the kid.

Hence manslaughter, not murder. And that's as it should be. There are those who hold the opinion that fuzzy-minded cockups should be punished as severely as malice aforethought, but I am not one of them.

[Skyryder]

There is an article by Tahu Potiki on this in todays (19-12)Christchurch Press.

He raises some interesting points.


Skyyrder

[Finn]

The answer, god save us all.

History tells us he's doing a terrible job to date.

[ghost]

This case raised a lot of questions, and a lot of opions, got to feel for the guy, currently the law does nothing to protect your property from damage, so do you sit back and let arseholes have a free for all or take the law into our own hands? And buy the way, they are our laws, ultimately decided and enforced by us, everyone in society, the police and justice system do not have divine right to enforce them. If more people took more interest in what these young people (shit heads) and keep them in line ( cause there fuckwit parents dont ) it might be a better place to live. Yeah he didnt deserve to die for tagging, but one questions is how does a fat middle age man run down two teenagers, they werent that wasted were they? If he didnt have the knife, and not saying its the best tool to be used here, but you grab what you can in a hurry, he might be the one dead after being assualted by two druck teens? Dont mean to sound callus but in my opion the right person walked away from this one, probably for the reason that he is more likely to feel the damage that has occured for the rest of his life compared to the "poor innocent teenager".

Heres a quick check for you, which family would you have move in next door to you?

Not saying that the family of a 14 year old who drinks and smokes dope in the middle of the day and then goes vandilizing for fun are not perfectly nice people, im sure there are those of you out there who think they are great people.

For me the question, regardless of the rights or wrongs of chasing people, carrying knifes, "taking the law into you own hands" is he should not be done for murder (obviously wasnt) he had no intention to kill him, read the trial notes. the teenager was killed by one wound approx 5 cm deep (scary aye, thats all it takes) inflicted by a knife of about 15 cm. not the work of a frenzied angry person looking to kill.
Manslaughter is more likely as he commited an act resulting in the death of one person.
The only defence for him to walk free was after both parties putting themselves in this position and they are both answerable for that, is that he feared for his life and used the miminum amount of force required to defend himself from an attack from two people.

Hard one to prove, but somehow I doubt the guy is a threat to society. Hope he's home for Christmas.

[Hitcher]

Hard one to prove, but somehow I doubt the guy is a threat to society. Hope he's home for Christmas.

The guy in question took the life of another person. There should be consequences for that.

And, in relation to the first part of your post, I'm not sure what country or even planet you live on. But New Zealand certainly has laws that relate to property rights and the protection of these. We also have a police force and a justice system to enforce these laws which, interestingly, often carry sterner penalties than crimes against people.

[ghost]

The guy in question took the life of another person. There should be consequences for that.

And, in relation to the first part of your post, I'm not sure what country or even planet you live on. But New Zealand certainly has laws that relate to property rights and the protection of these. We also have a police force and a justice system to enforce these laws which, interestingly, often carry sterner penalties than crimes against people.

Simple fella, if you take a life while you are defending yourself, ie, someone breaks into your home, armed, threatens to kill your family or yourself, if your use such force as you deem nessicary under the cirmumstances to defend yourself and the guy dies, the consequences are you feel bad for removing said person from the gene pool. Nothing more.

And the point about the first bit, is you are entitle to take the law into your own hands, but not to the extent of breaking them, once again, if you witness someone robbing a dairy and you pursue said someone and detain them (minimum force) then you are not breaking the law. The laws in New Zealand are not the sole responsibility of the police or justice system.

And I do live in New Zealand, I live in a part of New Zealaland that if you saw someone breaking into or causing damage to property, and if you then relied on the police force or justice system to "stop" this, you might be waiting along time. The boys (girls) in blue are a bit streached at times and cant always be there.

Must come and check out your planet, must be utopia..<_<

[Hitcher]

Must come and check out your planet, must be utopia.

It's Planet Reality Check, actually. Here people actually get on with life in a reasonable manner, rather than big noting on the Internet about how it's their right to bash the crap out of anybody who pisses on their letterbox, cuts them off in traffic or both.

[Ixion]

If the red neck tag fits...

If you want to kill people who tag your garage or front fence, irritating that may be, then I'm not going to stop you. Just don't expect any suppport from me or the justice system if you're caught.

Something equally tiresome is a childish habit of not putting a space after punctuation, particularly fullstops.

No.I do not want to kill people who tag my garage or front fence. I just want to stop them.And not get killed myself in the process.Which means arming myself to the level I (reasonably) expect they will be armed to.

And,spaces cost.Are you not aware there is a world recession on?

[JimO]

on the radio news... guy hears his van start up last night, runs outside and gets a beating from 2 guys

[PrincessBandit]

My point is just that the guy fucked up, fucked up big time. Raised the stakes and now everybody pays.

A severe beating would have sorted it.



Hmmm, and if he'd died from the beating?........outcome still the same.

[Headbanger]

Hmmm, and if he'd died from the beating?........outcome still the same.

You have to play the odds.....

Stabbing someone in the heart carries a much higher chance of death then hitting someone with a bat.

You stab someone in the chest when you want to kill them.....Crack someone with a bat, they get the message loud and clear.

[Tony W]

You have to play the odds.....

Stabbing someone in the heart carries a much higher chance of death then hitting someone with a bat.

You stab someone in the chest when you want to kill them.....Crack someone with a bat, they get the message loud and clear.

YEAH mate !!:headbang:

It's very unfortunate, for both of them, that the kid died.

[scumdog]

You have to play the odds.....

....Crack someone with a bat, they get the message loud and clear.

Pffft.
True.
Especially if they are dead.

[dipshit]

on the radio news... guy hears his van start up last night, runs outside and gets a beating from 2 guys


No one cares. Everybody expects stuff like that to happen.

People only act shocked when a law abiding citizen beats the shit out of/kills a criminal.

[Headbanger]

Pffft.
True.
Especially if they are dead.


Yeah, Nice work, Remove the guts of it and go ppfffttt.

Couple questions for ya genius.

Why do you cops hit people with batons rather then carry knives and stab people in the chest?

If someone confronts you with a knife and sticks it in your chest, what's running through your mind?, Holy fuck this guy is trying to kill me?

[scumdog]

Yeah, Nice work, Remove the guts of it and go ppfffttt.

Couple questions for ya genius.

Why do you cops hit people with batons rather then carry knives and stab people in the chest??

Becaaaaauuse cops are trained to hit only where it will hurt, not kill so no whackes to the head.

And they don't use knives 'cos it would take ages to hose the resulting blood from the rear of the patrol car.


Oh, and in answer to the question I have omitted from the quote: You also have to consider the intention of the knife wielder - not just the likely victim.

[JimO]

If someone confronts you with a knife and sticks it in your chest, what's running through your mind?, Holy fuck this guy is trying to kill me?

haha im wearing a stabby proof vest

[Headbanger]

Becaaaaauuse cops are trained to hit only where it will hurt, not kill so no whackes to the head.

And they don't use knives 'cos it would take ages to hose the resulting blood from the rear of the patrol car.


Oh, and in answer to the question I have omitted from the quote: You also have to consider the intention of the knife wielder - not just the likely victim.

You should enter politics when you tire of handing out tickets, Completely evasive nonsense rather then facing the facts.

Here you go,real answers, study them.

The reason you use batons is because the odds of killing someone are far less then if you went around stabbing people in the chest.

and, If someone confronted you and stabbed you in the chest then hell yes you would come to the conclusion they were trying to kill you, If you had your stab proof vest on then your conclusion wouldn't change, The outcome would simply be different. Instead of a potentially fatal injury to deal with you could just get on with the business of whacking them in the head with your baton.

[scumdog]

Y

The reason you use batons is because the odds of killing someone are far less then if you went around stabbing people in the chest.

You forgot about the extra range and a few other things that make the baton better than a knife like public (particularly the recipient) acceptance, easier training etc but feel free to rant/troll on with this topic that you seem to have such a wealth of knowledge on.............

[Patrick]

Aye?, he excelled at it, killed him with one thrust, How much better can you get?

Sure, If your going for style you could draw it out a bit, a few stabs here,a few stabs there, a poke in the eye ball, whatever.

But as far as confronting someone on the street, and killing them, he nailed it.

Now put him in Jail.



That aside, which part of stabbing someone in the heart is hardly trying to kill?

Way too much ranting here... 11 pages already...

I hear the kid was Japanese... it was hari kari... He was a no hope loser who wanted to end it all...

[Headbanger]

You forgot about the extra range and a few other things that make the baton better than a knife like public (particularly the recipient) acceptance, easier training etc but feel free to rant/troll on with this topic that you seem to have such a wealth of knowledge on.............

So, Its all about the extra range, Hell, carry a sword then.

As according to your logic the odds of killing someone with a deadly fuckin weapon don't come into the equation.


Public acceptance,ffs, Yeah no shit we wouldn't accept you guys running around stabbing people, It all goes back to the point your blind to, there's more chance of death.

[scumdog]

So, Its all about the extra range, Hell, carry a sword then.

As according to your logic the odds of killing someone with a deadly fuckin weapon don't come into the equation.


Public acceptance,ffs, Yeah no shit we wouldn't accept you guys running around stabbing people, It all goes back to the point your blind to, there's more chance of death.

Going back to the start I think the topic was the intent of the stabber...my how we've gone off topic;).

[Patrick]

... It all goes back to the point your blind to, there's more chance of death.

Soooooo.... Going from your own logic..... why do we have access to guns then?

"There's more chance of death" there, is there not?

[Headbanger]

Going back to the start I think the topic was the intent of the stabber...my how we've gone off topic;).

yes, and how it corresponds to grabbing a weapon that has a higher chance of killing.

Grab a knife, then your intention is to do some stabbing.


Never fear, You don't get it, I won't repeat it again, Less your confronted with a point that makes you re-evaluate your conclusion. Easy to just deny it and cry Troll, Troll.

[Hitcher]

Troll! Troll!

[scumdog]

yes, and how it corresponds to grabbing a weapon that has a higher chance of killing.

Grab a knife, then your intention is to do some stabbing.


Never fear, You don't get it, I won't repeat it again, Less your confronted with a point that makes you re-evaluate your conclusion. Easy to just deny it and cry Troll, Troll.

?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????

So EVERY time somebody goes outside with knife in hand upon hearing a noise in their yard they go out there with the intention to stab??? riiiight....

[Patrick]

yes, and how it corresponds to grabbing a weapon that has a higher chance of killing.

Grab a knife, then your intention is to do some stabbing.


Never fear, You don't get it, I won't repeat it again, Less your confronted with a point that makes you re-evaluate your conclusion. Easy to just deny it and cry Troll, Troll.

I grab a knife and my intention is to defend myself, if it is needed. Those two shits fronted up to him and started spraying his face. They were out for trouble, and one of em found it.....

Tried by 12 or carried by 6???

I know which way I would prefer to have it....

[Headbanger]

Yes, and now ones dead and the fat guy has ruined his life. Stabby stabby.Grabbing that knife was a champion move.

You so clever.

[davereid]

....Grabbing that knife was a champion move....

Maybe he won't be home with his family this Xmas. But he will be there next Xmas.

And the reason he will be there is because he carried a knife, used it and is now alive.

I think it was a pretty good move.

Not as good as taking a shotgun, but much much better than being beaten to death by a couple of hoods o the side of the road.

[Patrick]

Yes, and now ones dead and the fat guy has ruined his life. Stabby stabby.Grabbing that knife was a champion move.

You so clever.

He saved the taxpayer years of $$$ from the trouble that youth would have continued to cause over the years. He possibly changed the ways of the other one while he was at it. He won't be gone from his family for too long and will get back on track soon enough. People will be lining up to hire him.

Ruined his life? Only for a short time. But at least he gets to continue on with it eventually, instead of it being ended for him that fateful night...

[wbks]

After this week i think its a right laugh that cops have the nerve to even look at people the wrong way for taking the law into their own hands.

[scumdog]

After this week i think its a right laugh that cops have the nerve to even look at people the wrong way for taking the law into their own hands.


Feel free to laugh....

[wbks]

Actually I'm more pissed off. Pissed off that I can spot at least two cop cars driving 15 mins through auckland city looking for people to ticket. Yet, when someone has had their house broken into twice in a row night after night and had the phone lines smashed and an assault on them and their car stolen along with about 1k of bills and phones the only reaction you get is a visit 30 mins after the call which described an intruder with a large screwdriver in hand etcetc and after numerous people told to go take a look at the conformed intruders house for the car and everything else only one person even agrees to look but might as well have left it with their reply: "Hangon, I'll go take a look after a meeting I have in ten minutes". Sorry if I'm a little pissed off...

[scumdog]

Pissed off that I can spot at least two cop cars driving 15 mins through auckland city looking for people to ticket. ..

You KNEW that that was all they were doing, looking to ticket people??

Even if they had been they would have been tasked to do that, NZ Police merged with Traffic about 17 years ago, despite the thoughts of many it did NOT end up having mor ePolice, it just ended up with Traffic guys in Police uniform, 20 years ago you would have had the same scenario only you wouldn't have looked at the Traffic guys wondering why they weren't rushing to a burglary or whatever...

[wbks]

Well obviously I'm ignorant to the way it works but I think its just quite silly how you see on TV, whole groups of cars chasing someone that has pinched a car, or gotten into a fight at a party but a much much more serious situation like what i described (and a whole lot more i didn't ad) doesn't get jack shit attention and doesn't seem to be realised as what it is. Its like they think it's a little lovers tiff. You know..."I'm taking the car bitch **women throws blunt object at him*" only its on the side of the road and he's punching her in the face trying to drag her into his car... Anyway...Rant over/offtopic

[jrandom]

20 years ago you would have had the same scenario only you wouldn't have looked at the Traffic guys wondering why they weren't rushing to a burglary or whatever...

I went for a pushbike ride up and around northwest of Auckland this afternoon.

It'd odd how even at 25kph on a Trek I'll still come around a corner and get a mild panic reaction when I see a blue and yellow Commodore parked up watching me.

Very Pavlovian.

:pinch:

[ghost]

It's Planet Reality Check, actually. Here people actually get on with life in a reasonable manner, rather than big noting on the Internet about how it's their right to bash the crap out of anybody who pisses on their letterbox, cuts them off in traffic or both.

:confused:you speeke engrish, may be if you removed your head from the dark place you may see that the point I was..... ah forget it, besides have a look at the post count, maybe your the one who should get out a bit more........

[Hitcher]

besides have a look at the post count, maybe your the one who should get out a bit more...

Thank you for that insightful comment, Mr 45-post expert.

[ghost]

Thank you for that insightful comment, Mr 45-post expert.

your welcome, always trying to help out the challenged.....

[Hitcher]

your welcome, always trying to help out the challenged.....

One suspects you mean you're welcome.

[wbks]

Flaming someone over their spelling? Really?

[ghost]

One suspects you mean you're welcome.

Straws, grasping,....... saying thing,...... back on subject please.

[Hitcher]

Flaming someone over their spelling? Really?

Fighting the battle, one apostrophe at a time.

[scumdog]

Flaming someone over their spelling? Really?

You obvously don't know Hitcher - and haven't heard of his obligation and duties...

[Badjelly]

Flaming someone over their spelling? Really?
You think that was a flame? You're new to this Interweb thing, aren't you?

[Patrick]

Flaming someone over their spelling? Really?

9450 of his posts are about the correction of piss poor spelling or grammar... Live and learn.

[short-circuit]

I wonder whether it would have been a manslaughter charge had the kid with the spray can been holding the knife and the middle class white guy somehow "fell into it"

[davereid]

I wonder whether it would have been a manslaughter charge had the kid with the spray can been holding the knife and the middle class white guy somehow "fell into it"

No, it would have and should have been a murder charge.

[wbks]

You think that was a flame? You're new to this Interweb thing, aren't you?
Not really. Guess I should have said "calling out" or "nitpicking"... His posts do seem pretty grammar Nazi...

[Hitcher]

His posts do seem pretty grammar Nazi...

Pft. I was going easy on you, in the spirit of Christmas.

[wbks]

u humbl3 n1c3 p3rs0N u!!!!!!!!lulz

[ghost]

I wonder whether it would have been a manslaughter charge had the kid with the spray can been holding the knife and the middle class white guy somehow "fell into it"

If it had been two middle class white guys (funny how race is brought up, like its really important(?)) out tagging, and a overweight teenager, armed with a knife, chased them, and then the two middle class guys waited for them to catch up, said to each other, lets get him and one of the middle class guys get stabbed once with a third of the blade (can you feel the anger in that?) and the middle class guy dies, the teenager waddles home, he would probably be charged with murder. Most likely be found guilty of manslaughter, and possibly get off with self defence, maybe.

[Badjelly]

No, it would have and should have been a murder charge.

It was a murder charge. The jury returned a verdict of guilty of manslaughter, as juries always have the option of doing (I think) when the charge is murder.

[short-circuit]

If it had been two middle class white guys (funny how race is brought up, like its really important(?)) out tagging, and a overweight teenager, armed with a knife, chased them, and then the two middle class guys waited for them to catch up, said to each other, lets get him and one of the middle class guys get stabbed once with a third of the blade (can you feel the anger in that?) and the middle class guy dies, the teenager waddles home, he would probably be charged with murder. Most likely be found guilty of manslaughter, and possibly get off with self defence, maybe.

Not exactly sure I understand your rambling scenario but I think it's apparent that factors such as race, sex, economic postion and occupation do have a large bearing on terms of sentencing and conviction rates.

[Patrick]

Not exactly sure I understand your rambling scenario but I think it's apparent that factors such as race, sex, economic postion and occupation do have a large bearing on terms of sentencing and conviction rates.

Try re-reading it. It is the exact same scenario as what happened, only the players changed positions. The end result was still the same.

Yes, you might be right on the conviction anmd sentencing... Hard working people get heavier fines to those lazy arses who do nada and sit on their arses all day playing playstaion or x-box.

[ghost]

Try re-reading it. It is the exact same scenario as what happened, only the players changed positions. The end result was still the same.

Yes, you might be right on the conviction anmd sentencing... Hard working people get heavier fines to those lazy arses who do nada and sit on their arses all day playing playstaion or x-box.
LOL.. Classic, made funnier because of the truth behind that statement.....

[short-circuit]

Oh yeah ok, and that would be why in every colonial country the prisons are full of indigenous people, and all prisons across the world are populated by the poor, and in the states if you are black and kill someone you are more likely to fry.

Just one example: www.eji.org/eji/deathpenalty/racialbias

[scumdog]

Oh yeah ok, and that would be why in every colonial country the prisons are full of indigenous people, and all prisons across the world are populated by the poor, and in the states if you are black and kill someone you are more likely to fry.

Just one example: www.eji.org/eji/deathpenalty/racialbias

Ce's la vie.....

[speedpro]

Oh yeah ok, and that would be why in every colonial country the prisons are full of indigenous people, and all prisons across the world are populated by the poor, and in the states if you are black and kill someone you are more likely to fry.

Just one example: www.eji.org/eji/deathpenalty/racialbias

They're in prison because they're the f*%&#rs who did the crime. They're poor for the same reason they did crime - they're typically not too inteligent.

By your use of the word "colonial" it would seem that you are placing some blame on the colonisation for the problem. I'm imagining the old disenfranchised, picked on, underprivelaged, that's why I'm like this bullshit excuses. Recently I've had the privelage of meeting new refugees here in NZ. These people fled their own countries leaving EVERYTHING behind. They turn up here with just the clothes they wear and have just about all made an attempt at a decent life. Every excuse the criminal scumbags trot out for their behaviour applies to these refugees, plus years and years in a refugee camp which is a horror story in itself, but they are all (so far) good, clean, hard working, proud individuals.

Idiot scumbags do crime, idiot scumbags do the time. There isn't an excuse for it and noone is to blame apart from the idiot scumbags who made their own choices. F%ck 'em I say.

[speedpro]

I'm feeling better now.

[scumdog]

They're in prison because they're the f*%&#rs who did the crime. They're poor for the same reason they did crime - they're typically not too inteligent.

Idiot scumbags do crime, idiot scumbags do the time. There isn't an excuse for it and noone is to blame apart from the idiot scumbags who made their own choices. F%ck 'em I say.

Frikkin true dat!!

[Headbanger]

I agree......

[98tls]

Australia being a prime example,highest proportion of natives banged up in the world,in fact higher than South Africa during apartheid.

[kiwi cowboy]

Point one, he wasnt protecting his property anymore he was in pursuit of the offender
Point two He was in a pursuit for retribution with a lethal weapon
Point three, afterwards he went home washed the knife, put it under his mattress and went to bed

I got no respect for taggers or scum of the earth, but just because he is a businessman I dont see how the above factors could result in a manslaughter charge, he took a knife to seek revenge and he got it, its murder plain and simple...........what did you say, he had no intent? BS a knife was taken in anger to fight not to cut a cake

All said with limited media knowledge of course.

lock him up, I dont know any reasonable people that cant put a knife into another human, he is not a reasonable person in my view and derserves the full force of the law.

Thats my view

Way i heard it they turned on him in an ally so was retreating after being sprayed so a certain amount of self defence maybe!!!!!

[short-circuit]

They're in prison because they're the f*%&#rs who did the crime. They're poor for the same reason they did crime - they're typically not too inteligent.

By your use of the word "colonial" it would seem that you are placing some blame on the colonisation for the problem. I'm imagining the old disenfranchised, picked on, underprivelaged, that's why I'm like this bullshit excuses. Recently I've had the privelage of meeting new refugees here in NZ. These people fled their own countries leaving EVERYTHING behind. They turn up here with just the clothes they wear and have just about all made an attempt at a decent life. Every excuse the criminal scumbags trot out for their behaviour applies to these refugees, plus years and years in a refugee camp which is a horror story in itself, but they are all (so far) good, clean, hard working, proud individuals.

Idiot scumbags do crime, idiot scumbags do the time. There isn't an excuse for it and noone is to blame apart from the idiot scumbags who made their own choices. F%ck 'em I say.

Why the venom my friend? Had a hard day Christmas shopping?

Little maori kid squiggles on a fence, white middle aged business man runs back inside his house, grabs a knife (intention?), runs a considerable distance after him (intention?), stabs him...and gets away with murder.

I didn't detect any remorse from the prick either in his taped interviews - just regret for his brain explosion (losing control of his temper in going after the kid) and where it landed him.

I'm not an advocate for more and more punitive justice or "tougher sentences". But I'd like to see more consistent application of the law

[scumdog]

Why the venom my friend? Had a hard day Christmas shopping?

Little maori kid squiggles on a fence, white middle aged business man runs back inside his house, grabs a knife (intention?), runs a considerable distance after him (intention?), stabs him...and gets away with murder.

And the problem is???

[short-circuit]

And the problem is???

So called cops like you are a big part of the problem I'd suggest

[98tls]

Why the venom my friend? Had a hard day Christmas shopping?

Little maori kid squiggles on a fence, white middle aged business man runs back inside his house, grabs a knife (intention?), runs a considerable distance after him (intention?), stabs him...and gets away with murder. Makes a change from big Maori kid fucks up some innocents life (pick a colour,entirely up to you) and might as well have got away with murder.

[Jantar]

.... Little maori kid squiggles on a fence, white middle aged business man runs back inside his house, grabs a knife (intention?), runs a considerable distance after him (intention?), stabs him...and gets away with murder.

Wow, I've seen spin before but this one is just so bad. "Little maori kid squiggles on a fence" Try two teenage kids (race isn't required) damage the property of a middle aged businessman (colour isn't required either). Now we see a slightly differnt take on it.

Now look at the remainder of your statement.... So the middle aged man has the time, energy and physical fitness to "runs back inside his house, grabs a knife (intention?), runs a considerable distance after him ", and not only catches the two of them (not just one) and then somehow manages to stab a fleeing teenager in the chest.

Sorry, this is just impossible to believe. Just the act of going back inside, getting a knife and returning to the boundary of the property must have taken at least 20 seconds. Even a 10 year old can run 100 meters in 20 seconds, then the middle aged man is able to run them down? I hope he's entered into the next olympics.

So how about redoing your post with the truth rather than the spin?

[short-circuit]

Makes a change from big Maori kid fucks up some innocents life (pick a colour,entirely up to you) and might as well have got away with murder.

Ask yourself why there are a number of "big Maori Kids" who just dont give a fuck about your type of society

[scumdog]

So called cops like you are a big part of the problem I'd suggest

Old honky dude gets sick of taggers, grabs knife and goes outside to chase taggers, all concerned run until limp-wristed modern youths run out of puff before the older overweight honky does.

The taggers turn to confront him, two onto one, spray him in the face, he 'pokes' one with the knife (not a full-force deep stab) and the tagging heros wimp out and head away, one eventually calling it quits due to leaking the claret.

Overweight honky buggers off home thinking he taught them a lesson, forgot a brain is needed to learn a lesson.......

Just my counter to your earlier argument.

And glad to be of value to the tax-payers...

[scumdog]

Ask yourself why there are a number of "big Maori Kids" who just dont give a fuck about your type of society


Hence why such 'big Maori Kids' continue to leech on a society they apparently 'don't give a fuck about'.

And why they continue to fail to climb out of the 'loser' section of society..

[98tls]

Ask yourself why there are a number of "big Maori Kids" who just dont give a fuck about your type of society My society?fuck off with that shit,i live in society full stop.Scumbuckets are scumbuckets no matter what colour there skin is,less focus on the racist crap and more on the problem would be helpful.

[short-circuit]

Wow, I've seen spin before but this one is just so bad. "Little maori kid squiggles on a fence" Try two teenage kids (race isn't required) damage the property of a middle aged businessman (colour isn't required either). Now we see a slightly differnt take on it.

Now look at the remainder of your statement.... So the middle aged man has the time, energy and physical fitness to "runs back inside his house, grabs a knife (intention?), runs a considerable distance after him ", and not only catches the two of them (not just one) and then somehow manages to stab a fleeing teenager in the chest.

Sorry, this is just impossible to believe. Just the act of going back inside, getting a knife and returning to the boundary of the property must have taken at least 20 seconds. Even a 10 year old can run 100 meters in 20 seconds, then the middle aged man is able to run them down? I hope he's entered into the next olympics.

So how about redoing your post with the truth rather than the spin?

The defending your property angle is one big bullshit defence. The man willingly entered into a confrontation with kids armed with a weapon.

Defending property nonsense - so little damage was done that the prick wouldn't even bother claiming insurance as it wouldn't be worth the excess.

[short-circuit]

My society?fuck off with that shit,i live in society full stop.Scumbuckets are scumbuckets no matter what colour there skin is,less focus on the racist crap and more on the problem would be helpful.

Nah the "racist crap" is the issue - that's the reason you're suggesting its ok a kid "scumbucket" was killed. It's also the reason a murderer was given a lighter sentence

[short-circuit]

Old honky dude gets sick of taggers, grabs knife and goes outside to chase taggers

This is the kind of behaviour you as a policeman advocate is it? Or does it depend on what colour skin you have?

[98tls]

The defending your property angle is one big bullshit defence. The man willingly entered into a confrontation with kids armed with a weapon.

Defending property nonsense - so little damage was done that the prick wouldn't even bother claiming insurance as it wouldn't be worth the excess. Thats a hell of a bubble you live in.Good luck.

[98tls]

Nah the "racist crap" is the issue - that's the reason you're suggesting its ok a kid "scumbucket" was killed. It's also the reason a murderer was given a lighter sentence No go back n read my post,how the fuck did you get a crystal ball inside that bubble you live in?

[short-circuit]

Hence why such 'big Maori Kids' continue to leech on a society they apparently 'don't give a fuck about'.

And why they continue to fail to climb out of the 'loser' section of society..

Where you indoctrinated by the police straight out of 5th form?

Its all goodies and badies in your world is it?

[Jantar]

The defending your property angle is one big bullshit defence. The man willingly entered into a confrontation with kids armed with a weapon.

Defending property nonsense - so little damage was done that the prick wouldn't even bother claiming insurance as it wouldn't be worth the excess.

Again the spin. He wasn't defending his property, the damage had already been done. So don't go try inferring I've said something I didn't. The two teenagers DID damage his property, and I've no idea what his insurance excess was, but that is totally irrelevant. The damage has a value, and whether he would have paid for it himself, or claimed on insurance is not the issue. The first issue is that damage was done. Even you cannot condone that suely?

Then you haven't even addressed the question of how someone running away can be stabbed in the chest. Please explain that!

[scumdog]

This is the kind of behaviour you as a policeman advocate is it? Or does it depend on what colour skin you have?

Not advocating anything - just putting a different spin to your bleeding-heart pollyanna one-sided view.

Skin colour has nothing to do with it.

Being a broken arse leech on society does though.

[98tls]

Where you indoctrinated by the police straight out of 5th form?

Its all goodies and badies in your world is it? :Punk:This just gets better n better,yo, your mama has her titty out,its tea time.

[short-circuit]

No go back n read my post,how the fuck did you get a crystal ball inside that bubble you live in?

Be careful - I might become so incensed by your simplistic and ignorant responses that I may be forced to bring a knife into this confrontation we are having - then (if I'm white) I may not be able to be held responsible (by a jury of my peers) for my actions

[Jantar]

Nah the "racist crap" is the issue - that's the reason you're suggesting its ok a kid "scumbucket" was killed. It's also the reason a murderer was given a lighter sentence

There was no murderer in this case, unless it was one of the teenagers. The jury decided that the middle aged man was guilty of manslaughter, not murder. Then where is the evidence that anyone was given a lighter sentence because of race?

[98tls]

Again the spin. He wasn't defending his property, the damage had already been done. So don't go try inferring I've said something I didn't. The two teenagers DID damage his property, and I've no idea what his insurance excess was, but that is totally irrelevant. The damage has a value, and whether he would have paid for it himself, or claimed on insurance is not the issue. The first issue is that damage was done. Even you cannot condone that suely?

Then you haven't even addressed the question of how someone running away can be stabbed in the chest. Please explain that! Could you stop making sense,its getting annoying.:blink:

[short-circuit]

:Punk:This just gets better n better,yo, your mama has her titty out,its tea time.

You are regressing with every post (how old are you now?)

[scumdog]

Where you indoctrinated by the police straight out of 5th form?

Its all goodies and badies in your world is it?


Not indoctrinated, just realistic with an attitude gained from dealing with the winners and (more often) losers of this world.

[short-circuit]

Not indoctrinated, just realistic with an attitude gained from dealing with the winners and (more often) losers of this world.

It's easy to reinforce a blinkered view of the world on a daily basis if that's what you seek to do

[98tls]

Not indoctrinated, just realistic with an attitude gained from dealing with the winners and (more often) losers of this world. Careful,hes thinking knives,knives and a bubble:Oops:

[scumdog]

It's easy to reinforce a blinkered view of the world on a daily basis if that's what you seek to do

Blinkered?
No.

Open-eyed and realistic?
Yes.

[Jantar]

Interesting to note that there is so little vandalism down here in Otago compared to that part of Dorkland where the stabbing occured. Maybe its because the teenagers down here know the consequences. :2guns:

[scumdog]

Be careful - I might become so incensed by your simplistic and ignorant responses that I may be forced to bring a knife into this confrontation we are having - then (if I'm white) I may not be able to be held responsible (by a jury of my peers) for my actions

And if the older overweight property owner had chased the taggers unarmed do you think that all concerned would have gone their separate ways unscathed??:crazy:

[98tls]

And if the older overweight property owner had chased the taggers unarmed do you think that all concerned would have gone their separate ways unscathed??:crazy: :shit:Dont ask him to think!!!!!More fun if he taps out his crap without thought.

[98tls]

Interesting to note that there is so little vandalism down here in Otago compared to that part of Dorkland where the stabbing occured. Maybe its because the teenagers down here know the consequences. :2guns: I am deeply ashamed to admit i had to whack my nephew round the arse today after repeated "dont do that".Off to the big house i go maybe...:doh:

[phaedrus]

This is the kind of behaviour you as a policeman advocate is it? Or does it depend on what colour skin you have?

scummy here doesn't discriminate against colour, he discriminates against stupid

[dipshit]

And if the older overweight property owner had chased the taggers unarmed do you think that all concerned would have gone their separate ways unscathed??:crazy:

I tell you one thing... If the property owner had got beaten to with an inch of his life or even killed... it would have only made the news for five minutes then be forgotten about the next day.

Strangely people seem more shocked if a law abiding citizen beats the living daylights out of or kills a criminal.

[short-circuit]

And if the older overweight property owner had chased the taggers unarmed do you think that all concerned would have gone their separate ways unscathed??:crazy:

Well he obviously didn't go after them with a knife to talk it through, so no in answer to your question, that very fact alone strengthens my argument doesn't it? He pursued them with a knife and with intent.

[short-circuit]

:shit:Dont ask him to think!!!!!More fun if he taps out his crap without thought.

Your last two pages of drivel show what an expert you are in responding without thought.

[short-circuit]

I am deeply ashamed to admit i had to whack my nephew round the arse today after repeated "dont do that".Off to the big house i go maybe...:doh:

Case in point. Are you that brain damaged that you don't realise this isn't an anti-smacking thread? Or did you whack him with a knife through the chest for drawing on your wall with crayons?

That was your last chance by the way - one less moron I need to respond to (no point if you are unable to engage in the discussion at an adult level)

[short-circuit]

I tell you one thing... If the property owner had got beaten to with an inch of his life or even killed... it would have only made the news for five minutes then be forgotten about the next day.

Strangely people seem more shocked if a law abiding citizen beats the living daylights out of or kills a criminal.

Yeah I think it could have something to do with the fact that to kill someone for low level childish vandalism is a bit unusual

[dipshit]

Yeah I think it could have something to do with the fact that to kill someone for low level childish vandalism is a bit unusual


Or maybe because it's that entrenched in people's psyche that criminals are cool and tough, while law abiding citizens are wimpey timid little nerds.

Anything that goes against this hollywood stereotype comes as a shock. It isn't "normal" or the way it's meant to be.

[ghost]

Question for Short circut, should the more "native to New Zealand" prisoners be released from prison because they are only there due to colonisation, and imposition on unfair or unjust laws upon their culture? Should they be allowed to continue there actions according to pre colonisation culture and any non "more native to New Zealander" be serverly punished under their laws for any wrong doings against said "more native to New Zealanders"?

Thoughts, answers....

[Hitcher]

Thoughts, answers...

Develop a reasoned and credible hypothesis and post that for critique, rather than talkback radio-inspired nonsense.

Merry Christmas.

[ghost]

Develop a reasoned and credible hypothesis and post that for critique, rather than talkback radio-inspired nonsense.

Merry Christmas.

Read my first post on this subject, not enough punctiation in it for you maybe?

Talk back radio? Is that something you do whilst racking up post counts?

[short-circuit]

Question for Short circut, should the more "native to New Zealand" prisoners be released from prison because they are only there due to colonisation, and imposition on unfair or unjust laws upon their culture? Should they be allowed to continue there actions according to pre colonisation culture and any non "more native to New Zealander" be serverly punished under their laws for any wrong doings against said "more native to New Zealanders"?

Thoughts, answers....

What do you think? Of course not! What I was arguing was that the law doesn't seem to be being applied consistently enough. But you seem to have blurred the issues completely.

If you genuinely want history and sociology lessons about the effects of colonisation on indigenious people and the relationships between minority cultures, poverty and crime then enrol in university and learn to listen rather than burble shite.

I suspect as Hitcher has observed that you would be well suited to talk back - you could listen to shite burbling all day long and further educate yourself that way

[short-circuit]

No one cares. Everybody expects stuff like that to happen.

People only act shocked when a law abiding citizen beats the shit out of/kills a criminal.

Nice one - I knew I should have read some of your earlier drivel. Killing someone hardly makes one a law abiding citizen does it?


Your claim that the boy who was killed is a criminal is based on what the fact that he tagged on this guys fence? You wouldn't have jay walked, hit anyone, or pissed in public at anytime in your life would you?

[ghost]

What do you think? Of course not! What I was arguing was that the law doesn't seem to be being applied consistently enough. But you seem to have blurred the issues completely.

If you genuinely want history and sociology lessons about the effects of colonisation on indigenious people and the relationships between minority cultures, poverty and crime then enrol in university and learn to listen rather than burble shite.

Fair enough, just trying to carify your position on the race issue involved in this case and others. I too think that the prison population is overly representative of certain races, however I find it hard to blame the colonisation or minority culture argument. This does a disservice to people of those races who work hard, live within societies bounds and prosper, and still maintain their culture.


And history is best sourced from Libraries and Archives, unfortunatly universities offer to much of a slanted perspective on New Zealand history at the moment. Just my opinion, or maybe its just me burbling shite?