Does justice work?

[Paul in NZ]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10547766

Law and justice are not always the same. When they aren't, destroying the law may be the first step toward changing it. ~ Gloria Steinem ~

I know I'm an old fashioned dinosaur - but this rankles. I applaud the 26 years but its surely not enough. He wants fame - give him fame, the first man executed in NZ since when? There is NO excuse for this....

[Swoop]

He wants fame - give him fame, the first man executed in NZ since when? There is NO excuse for this....
Last was in 1957 (http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/culture/the-death-penalty/the-last-execution).

I believe that the gallows are still in storage at Mt Eden...

[98tls]

Uh huh,he wanted to be a serial rapist he fell short so the rest of us pay for awhile,sad really,then again the dead tagger wanted to be a "gangsta rapping nigger lovin"whatever so i guess todays tally is 50/50.

[mstriumph]

let's hope that, by the time he becomes eligible for parole, someone will have instituted some SENSIBLE parole parameters*


* ie when a person is released on parole and re-offends, every member of the parole board that released him/her is immediately arrested & incarcerated with the offender for the remainder of his/her original sentence ......

we wouldn't have so many bleeding hearts on parole boards THEN methinks!

[Ixion]

Law and justice seldom meet. They walk upon opposite sides of thestreet. When they do meet, they salute but do not embrace

I'd pull the lever.

[wbks]

But then the rehabilitated would have no chance as no one would release them at their own risk.

[98tls]

Law and justice seldom meet. They walk upon opposite sides of thestreet. When they do meet, they salute but do not embrace

I'd pull the lever. Wtf are you on,thats about the 3rd post of yours i agree with,annoying.

[mstriumph]

But then the rehabilitated would have no chance as no one would release them at their own risk.

ahHA !! :yes:

if they wouldn't release someone at their OWN risk, then why should they be empowered to release him/her at the COMMUNITY'S risk? mmmmm?

[Maha]

Last was in 1957 (http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/culture/the-death-penalty/the-last-execution).

I believe that the gallows are still in storage at Mt Eden...

This is one fucker that deserves to be the first since then!
In some cases, there is doubt, but in this....no doubt at all, not even from the convicted...

'Reid, 36, shaven headed, tattooed and flanked by three prison officers, bowed to the crowd and then raised both arms in a kind of victory salute as he was led away.'

[fireliv]

Something that always irks me.

When a Judge hands out a "Bad sentence" by public views everyone blames the judge, including politicians. Everyone seams to forget that they are working with the law that has been set by the politicans, and often have little choice in the sentence.

[MadDuck]

I'd pull the lever.

And make him a legend in NZ. I wouldnt.

[98tls]

This is one fucker that deserves to be the first since then!
In some cases, there is doubt, but in this....no doubt at all, not even from the convicted...

'Reid, 36, shaven headed, tattooed and flanked by three prison officers, bowed to the crowd and then raised both arms in a kind of victory salute as he was led away.' Which further proves what a pathetic human being he is,i for one would find killing him to easy,he as we type has nothing but walls a toilet 3 shelves a very uncomfortable bed and a door not under his control for a very long time,there's nobody to watch his attempts at bravado and no one that cares.Every evening at 5.30 he has nothing but his demons,i hope there happy together.

[98tls]

Something that always irks me.

When a Judge hands out a "Bad sentence" by public views everyone blames the judge, including politicians. Everyone seams to forget that they are working with the law that has been set by the politicans, and often have little choice in the sentence. Partly true,then again explain the hundreds of pathetic sentences handed out every court day for drink driving?

[fireliv]

Partly true,then again explain the hundreds of pathetic sentences handed out every court day for drink driving?

Agreed. There really isnt a standard. I have seen fines from $100-$3000. 3+ drink driving is supposed to be prison but barely ever happens.

Judges are surposed to look to impose (in most cases) the least restrictive sentence, but I dont see y that is the case. If something is worth 7 years imprisonment, then that should be the starting point, and reduced for any other relevant considerations. But again its the politicians that decided how sentences are to be imposed.

[98tls]

Agreed. There really isnt a standard. I have seen fines from $100-$3000. 3+ drink driving is supposed to be prison but barely ever happens.

Judges are surposed to look to impose (in most cases) the least restrictive sentence, but I dont see y that is the case. If something is worth 7 years imprisonment, then that should be the starting point, and reduced for any other relevant considerations. But again its the politicians that decided how sentences are to be imposed. Take heart,if your fucked off imagine how the cops feel.

[rainman]

if they wouldn't release someone at their OWN risk, then why should they be empowered to release him/her at the COMMUNITY'S risk? mmmmm?

Are you trolling or did you bang your head badly as a child?


Which further proves what a pathetic human being he is,i for one would find killing him to easy,he as we type has nothing but walls a toilet 3 shelves a very uncomfortable bed and a door not under his control for a very long time,there's nobody to watch his attempts at bravado and no one that cares.Every evening at 5.30 he has nothing but his demons,i hope there happy together.

Nicely put.

[Paul in NZ]

Wtf are you on,thats about the 3rd post of yours i agree with,annoying.

Oh gawd - now THAT is funny...

[98tls]

Oh gawd - now THAT is funny... :confused:Xactly mate,normally he has me wanting to chuck the puter over the fence but tonight?somethings wrong:laugh:up to no good methinks.

[Paul in NZ]

I dunno - jeeze - I'm about as left as it gets but fuck this shit... The guys a bloody nut bag - yes, I feel 'sorry' for him but what about the nice families lives he has ruined? Trash? WORSE than.... Degrees of murder?

[98tls]

I dunno - jeeze - I'm about as left as it gets but fuck this shit... The guys a bloody nut bag - yes, I feel 'sorry' for him but what about the nice families lives he has ruined? Trash? WORSE than.... Degrees of murder? Hear what your saying but if given a choice i would still pay for this fucker to be miserable with my toil than grant him freedom for the price of a rope.Fwiw.

[H00dz]

I would glady support harsher sentencing.....Hell I would even go as far as supporting the death Penalty.........IF I had absolute faith that the justice system was robust enough to find the genuine guilty, guilty and the Innocent, Innocent.......this is where my dilema lays:shutup::shutup::shutup::shutup:

[mstriumph]

Originally Posted by mstriumph
if they wouldn't release someone at their OWN risk, then why should they be empowered to release him/her at the COMMUNITY'S risk? mmmmm?Are you trolling or did you bang your head badly as a child?


sorry - i didn't realise there were any members of parole boards on here ... for that reason i'll ignore your personal abuse too - parole board members being notoriously deficient in either commonsense or the ability to put together a reasoned arguement without resorting to hair-pulling :)

for the same reason i'll type this slowly .
... Parole Boards are NOT god and should NOT get carried away with their own sense of self-importance..... i know - i should have my mouth washed out etc etc .... but it gets worse :-

IF you, as the member of a parole board, feel that you couldn't release a particular prisoner because they would probably re-offend and endanger YOUR precious hide .... HOW DARE YOU think it's ok to release them back into the community because it's only SOMEONE ELSE that they'll probably hurt?

[rainman]

sorry - i didn't realise there were any members of parole boards on here ...

There are? Where?


for that reason i'll ignore your personal abuse too


Harden up dude, I was just having a bit of fun.

Your question is pretty stoopid though if you think about it for 5 seconds.

[Murray]

I dunno - jeeze - I'm about as left as it gets but fuck this shit... The guys a bloody nut bag - yes, I feel 'sorry' for him but what about the nice families lives he has ruined? Trash? WORSE than.... Degrees of murder?

Why cannot there be a First degree Murder/2nd Degree murder. Some murders are so obvious (The RSA murders/The guy who shot people on the Wainuiomata firebreak/the machete man/his dickhead). With DNA/camera footage etc there are plenty of ways we can be 100% certain of the murderer.

First degree murder Hang them

Then there are others Scott Watson/Mark Lundy etc where there is not absolute irrefutable evidence i.e. dna/eye witnesses/photo's etc

2nd degree murder Give them life

I realise some people will say in the second degree murder case if there is doubt they should be innocent, however if in all likelihood, without absolute, irrefutable evidence, they committed the murder then they can still be found guilty!!

[SARGE]

i've always been of the opinion that prison should be a very nasty place.. no in-floor heating.. no Big screen TV and Xbox..45 minutes outside your cell every day and a TEENY window with a view of the motorway and sewage treatment plant..put the prison in the final glide path of an airport just to make sleep a thing of the past



just pop him in a 6x4 room with a toilet and a steel rack for the rest of his life..

[jrandom]

just pop him in a 6x4 room with a toilet and a steel rack for the rest of his life..

What he said.

The 'justice' system is always going to make cockups, and the point that the death penalty is irreversible is impossible to avoid.

Locking them up and not letting them out achieves the same goal, but you can always say sorry and let them out later if it turns out they never dunnit in the first place.

Privatising prisons will be a good start to making the process more efficient. Tight fixed budgets, get some clever people on the job of making a profit off those budgets while still keeping the bad guys locked up.

Betcha the Christmas dinners and Sky TV would disappear fairly quickly.

And, while we're at it, why the fuck aren't NZ prison guards armed? Jesus H. Christ.

[SARGE]

What he said.

The 'justice' system is always going to make cockups, and the point that the death penalty is irreversible is impossible to avoid.

Locking them up and not letting them out achieves the same goal, but you can always say sorry and let them out later if it turns out they never dunnit in the first place.

Privatising prisons will be a good start to making the process more efficient. Tight fixed budgets, get some clever people on the job of making a profit off those budgets while still keeping the bad guys locked up.

Betcha the Christmas dinners and Sky TV would disappear fairly quickly.

And, while we're at it, why the fuck aren't NZ prison guards armed? Jesus H. Christ.

hire some nasty, sadistic people to deal with "Guest Services" and lets see some creative human rights violations.. the crims took someones human rights away..


karma is a motherfucker


i wouldnt ARM the guards with firearms..but i would get some retired SAS guys in there that wouldnt need guns...too easy to snatch a gun off a guard and use it against him..

[wbks]

Why the fuck would a trained soldier among the best in the world at what he does want to hang around in a shitty prison all day for shit pay doing what a trained monkey could do?

[jrandom]

i wouldnt ARM the guards with firearms..but i would get some retired SAS guys in there that wouldnt need guns...too easy to snatch a gun off a guard and use it against him..

All the NZ fullas with those skills have fucked off to earn six figures with Blackwater, Global Risk Strategies et al. I don't think you'd have any luck recruiting such quality for a shitty job like guarding prisons.

[jrandom]

Why the fuck would a trained soldier among the best in the world at what he does want to hang around in a shitty prison all day for shit pay doing what a trained monkey could do?

Yeah, what he said.

[SARGE]

Why the fuck would a trained soldier among the best in the world at what he does want to hang around in a shitty prison all day for shit pay doing what a trained monkey could do?

only the truly sadistic need apply.. the trained monkeys they
have in the prisons now are just warehousers.. hire some evil bastards and let them get proactive

dont get your panties in a bunch man.. just a thought

[wbks]

Lol sorry if I sounded shitty, I really wasn't.

[mstriumph]

There are? Where? ... irony fella - my implication being that you must be .... Harden up dude, I was just having a bit of fun :sunny:




Harden up dude, I was just having a bit of fun.

Your question is pretty stoopid though if you think about it for 5 seconds. .. mildly interesting response -
please explain why in your estimation my question is stoopid?

[rainman]

please explain why in your estimation my question is stoopid?

More interesting would be why you think parole board members (or anyone else for that matter) are totally selfless people that value everyone equally.

They're just doing a job, in most cases I'd bet they're trying to do it to the best of their abilities and using all of their wisdom and judgement. You're making the basic error of designing a system that only works when everything is perfect. (A all too common idea that is on my long list of reasons for not wanting idealistic rightwingers in power). All you'd do is punish the wrong people, and change the incentives so that no-one would get paroled. (You're converting "More'n my job's worth" to "More'n my life's worth"... a rather juvenile and extreme escalation of the tweak that is probably called for in the circumstances. (This is assuming of course that the decisions for release taken by parole boards today are systematically and consistently sub-optimal, which I don't know, and suspect you don't either).

Or, in other words, I think you're just an idealistic blowhard who likes to hear himself talking tough. (Admittedly, you'll likely find an appreciative crowd over here).

And for those of you who are rooting for privatised prisons, please explain, without recourse to ideology, what the incentive is for a private enterprise to run a bare bones prison? (Note, I would be happy to see the comfort of prisons reduced, no playstations and other entertainment bullshit, up to the point where there is a likely health impact.)

[Ixion]

I strongly suspect that a privately run prison would be the reverse of 'bare bones'. Those running the prison do so to make a profit. The cost of
luxuries' is easily offset by the fact that a contented inmate population is easier to manage needs fewer guards. Moreover, one of the KPIs for the prison company is bound to be the number of break outs, escapes, riots etc. Keeping those to a minimum is financial sense. The biggest problem is likely to be getting the prisoners out at the end of their sentences.

[Swoop]

IF you, as the member of a parole board, feel that you couldn't release a particular prisoner because they would probably re-offend and endanger YOUR precious hide .... HOW DARE YOU think it's ok to release them back into the community because it's only SOMEONE ELSE that they'll probably hurt?
Good point. Perhaps a pre-requisite to being released on parole, a prisoner should be made to live with a member of the parole board for a week. They would get a real experience of how well behaved and reformed the prisoner really is.

Why the fuck would a trained soldier among the best in the world at what he does want to hang around in a shitty prison all day for shit pay doing what a trained monkey could do?
Practice... If ya know what I mean...

[RantyDave]

I strongly suspect that a privately run prison would be the reverse of 'bare bones' ... The cost of luxuries' is easily offset by the fact that a contented inmate population is easier to manage needs fewer guards.
I hate to mention it, but he has got a point. Park them all up with TV dinners and rugby on the telly. It's not exactly the idea, but I bet it's cheaper.

Dave

[Paul in NZ]

Gah! Parole boards? Private jails? WTF?? Jeeze only on KB...

Look - this pricks a shit head - his lifes ambition is is to BE NZ's top shit head. The is no doubt about his guilt or if he was free tomorrow he would be looking for his next score. Why fuck about with redemption - face up to it the world will be a better place without this arse wipe....

Yeah - I have 3 daughters but thats not coming into it - time for us to man up and realise that some people are so damaged, that they have crossed the line so much that there is no coming back....

I dunno - its not a happy prospect - state sanctioned murder BUT this arsehole is the poster child for the campaign to reintroduce capital punishment....

[Headbanger]

Wait, I thought Jails were for rehabilitation?

Lets help the guy, he obviously has issues, No doubt installed during his upbringing. He is a victim as much as anyone else, and society is to blame.


Nah, Sounds like bullshit to me, lets paint him pink, release him into a national park and put a 50 grand pricetag on his head.

[wbks]

I like your posts

[Her_C4]

But then the rehabilitated would have no chance as no one would release them at their own risk.

'Re' habilitated? Oh you mean the .0005% that were habilitated in the first place?!


I would glady support harsher sentencing.....Hell I would even go as far as supporting the death Penalty.........IF I had absolute faith that the justice system was robust enough to find the genuine guilty, guilty and the Innocent, Innocent.......this is where my dilema lays:shutup::shutup::shutup::shutup:

Justice system? Robust? Yeah I see your problem


What he said.

The 'justice' system is always going to make cockups, and the point that the death penalty is irreversible is impossible to avoid.

Locking them up and not letting them out achieves the same goal, but you can always say sorry and let them out later if it turns out they never dunnit in the first place.

Privatising prisons will be a good start to making the process more efficient. Tight fixed budgets, get some clever people on the job of making a profit off those budgets while still keeping the bad guys locked up.

Betcha the Christmas dinners and Sky TV would disappear fairly quickly.

And, while we're at it, why the fuck aren't NZ prison guards armed? Jesus H. Christ.


ha ha ha - when you get off the mark (rarely I admit) it surprises even me! We already have had privatised prisons here - how did they do?


I strongly suspect that a privately run prison would be the reverse of 'bare bones'. Those running the prison do so to make a profit. The cost of
luxuries' is easily offset by the fact that a contented inmate population is easier to manage needs fewer guards. Moreover, one of the KPIs for the prison company is bound to be the number of break outs, escapes, riots etc. Keeping those to a minimum is financial sense. The biggest problem is likely to be getting the prisoners out at the end of their sentences.

There we go - :niceone:


No doubt installed during his upbringing. He is a victim as much as anyone else, and society is to blame.


Nah, Sounds like bullshit to me, lets paint him pink, release him into a national park and put a 50 grand pricetag on his head.

Pause for thought - just a small pause. Lets imagine (and I have been on KB for enough years now to know that you alllllllll have an imagination to one extent or another...).

How horrified we all are - outraged in fact, that a bunch of absolute waste of space shit heads caused the death of such a sweet wee girl such as Nia. Her treatment (shared by more children in this wonderful country of ours than you can ever imagine) nothing less than frighteningly horrific.

Swung from clothes lines, tumbled in the drier, used as a landing pad, punching bag etc etc.

What if ....... here is where I need you to use your imagination... what if - she didn't die that ghastly death. WHAT IF she survived??

WAIT!!! Don't hasten to answer yet....

The compassion and horror that you felt when you read about her life and how she died - hold on to that ... think about how she might have survived and what her life would be like?

Think about the survival skills that she might have adopted and her rather warped view on life... a female version of the subject of this thread?

Re habilitation? Give me a break - half of our inmate population have NEVER had the chance to be habilitated.

Hold on that compassion for Nia and the thought of how her upbringing would have been for her had she survived - the violence, the pain, the hatred, her shame.

Would that change the train of your thoughts at all?

Perhaps there is another answer /option yet - childhood intervention?

[jrandom]

ha ha ha - when you get off the mark (rarely I admit) it surprises even me! We already have had privatised prisons here - how did they do?

Too right. I was just, y'know, chucking the thought out there.

How did they do?


Yada yada, the poor disadvantaged brown people, Nia would have just grown up to be a misfit herself and then breed more of 'em.

Do you think that's not one of the first things that went through everybody's head when they heard about that case?

As you so rightly point out, 'rehabilitation' is basically impossible for many of them, because they've been programmed from childhood for dysfunctionality.

'Pick out the bad uns and remove them from society' is the only option that has a faint chance of achieving anything.


childhood intervention?

Good idea. Difficult to implement?

[Grahameeboy]

Lets not forget the guy was caught, convicted and will spend a min. of 26 years in Jail...justice as much as it can be has been served...hanging does not change the fact that an innocent person was robbed of their chance at life.

Sometimes we think about the offender more than the victim.

[short-circuit]

i wouldnt ARM the guards with firearms..but i would get some retired SAS guys in there that wouldnt need guns...too easy to snatch a gun off a guard and use it against him..

Why don't you stop trying to act like a hard arse all time time you sad, old, yankydoodle has been? Stay on topic - nothing to do with guns and soldiers...

Stick to ranting the chorus with the rest of the simplistic vengeful rednecks.

[Grahameeboy]

Why don't you stop trying to act like a hard arse all time time you sad old has been? Stay on topic - nothing to do with guns and soldiers...

stick to ranting the chorus with the rest of the simplistic vengeful rednecks.

Now I understand your site name........:dodge:

[short-circuit]

Now I understand your site name........:dodge:

Oh god, that's original! Well done GrayHam



Look - you lot seem to have lost your way...I'll start you off,

1, 2, 3, "Harsher sentences", "tough on crime", "Life means life", "Hanging's too good for them"

Off you go again

[Grahameeboy]

Oh god, that's original! Well done GrayHam



Look - you lot seem to have lost your way...I'll start you off,

1, 2, 3, "Harsher sentences", "tough on crime", "Life means life", "Hanging's too good for them"

Off you go again

Thankyou and God Bless Sir

[PrincessBandit]

A barren desert island surrounded by shark infested waters sounds like a good idea to me for people like that. Somewhere they cannot swim to the mainland from. They get pushed out from a lowflying plane, surviving the landing would be a feat in itself, and supplies get dropped once a month. No shelter, no toilet facilities, no weapons other than those they fashion for themselves, no medical treatment available.
Only people such as this man would be sent there - those who show no remorse, who openly "celebrate" their atrocities, those who are recidivist offenders who might say they're rehabilitated but show they're not by their continued offending.
Just an idea. They'd probably all kill each other off for sport within a short space of time anyway.

[SARGE]

Why don't you stop trying to act like a hard arse all time time you sad, old, yankydoodle has been? Stay on topic - nothing to do with guns and soldiers...

Stick to ranting the chorus with the rest of the simplistic vengeful rednecks.

oh yea .. i forgot.. im in New Zealand now ..home of the lefty socialist anti-fun tree hugging PC "wrap everything in bubblewrap" deny responsibility RUGBY RUGBY RUGBY tall Poppy crowd...

maybe the asshole crims just need a hug and a cookie

just keep thinking its someone elses fault and keep an inch or 2 out of kicking distance fuckhead

another one for the ignore list

(anyone know if the iggy lists have a size limit?)

later asshat

[SARGE]

A barren desert island surrounded by shark infested waters sounds like a good idea to me for people like that. Somewhere they cannot swim to the mainland from. They get pushed out from a lowflying plane, surviving the landing would be a feat in itself, and supplies get dropped once a month. No shelter, no toilet facilities, no weapons other than those they fashion for themselves, no medical treatment available.
Only people such as this man would be sent there - those who show no remorse, who openly "celebrate" their atrocities, those who are recidivist offenders who might say they're rehabilitated but show they're not by their continued offending.
Just an idea. They'd probably all kill each other off for sport within a short space of time anyway.




im a fan of the "Escape From New York" Model..maybe we can wall south auckland off.. wouldnt have to shift too many people that way..


AND .. put cameras all over the island like Survivor ..

we could call it "No Survivors"


lemme call my agent .. i see an opportunity here ...

[98tls]

im a fan of the "Escape From New York" Model..maybe we can wall south auckland off.. wouldnt have to shift too many people that way.. Why stop there,how about wall off everything from ahh umm say picton:2thumbsup

[SARGE]

Why stop there,how about wall off everything from ahh umm say picton:2thumbsup




jesus man .. cruel bastard you are..

[short-circuit]

oh yea .. i forgot.. im in New Zealand now ..home of the lefty socialist anti-fun tree hugging PC "wrap everything in bubblewrap" deny responsibility RUGBY RUGBY RUGBY tall Poppy crowd...

maybe the asshole crims just need a hug and a cookie

just keep thinking its someone elses fault and keep an inch or 2 out of kicking distance fuckhead

another one for the ignore list

(anyone know if the iggy lists have a size limit?)

later asshat


Now you just wait here one goddamn cottonpicking minute tough guy. I just have one thing to say to you:

"Gaaaad Bluss Umericuuuuh"

[mstriumph]

.................Or, in other words, I think you're just an idealistic blowhard who likes to hear himself talking tough. (Admittedly, you'll likely find an appreciative crowd over here).

..................


.........i seem to remember saying previously that there are those who, being unable to argue/debate rationally, resort to personal attacks; regrettably you appear to be among them.

Apart from a stunned "ideaLISTIC?? MOI???!" I have nothing further to say on this :no:

[vifferman]

While I find it hard to agree with capital punishment for a variety of reasons including that it removes all possibility of genuine remorse and subsequent rehabilitation, there are cases like this where it's kind of obvious there's absolutely no chance of the person reforming, and a bullet would seem a better option. In fact, in this case - at least after the fact - it would seem a bullet before the expense of a trial would have been a good and obvious option.
This guy just didn't give a stuff, and appeared to have the attitude that what he did was OK. The look in his eyes showed no emotion, no regret, nothing.
Sometimes you get defendants that perform a bit to show how macho they are or whatever, and you know at least some of it is pretense, but not in this case. Why waste somewhere in the region of at least $2.5million on keeping him locked up? Yes, it will keep others safe, and employ some people in the prison infrastructure, but so what?

[vifferman]

A barren desert island surrounded by shark infested waters sounds like a good idea to me for people like that. ...They'd probably all kill each other off for sport within a short space of time anyway.
Yes, it's a great idea, and one that I've often thought would be a good solution for rival gangs. They'd have unencumbered access to each other for the purposes of sorting out who was top dog / most macho / whatever, without any innocent people getting drawn into it.
Perhaps White Island?

[PrincessBandit]

im a fan of the "Escape From New York" Model..maybe we can wall south auckland off.. wouldnt have to shift too many people that way..


...

Gimme a chance to move away first!

[imdying]

While I find it hard to agree with capital punishment for a variety of reasons including that it removes all possibility of genuine remorse and subsequent rehabilitationWhat about if we provide it as an option to offenders? They choose it, we whack em...?

[alanzs]

A barren desert island surrounded by shark infested waters sounds like a good idea to me for people like that. Somewhere they cannot swim to the mainland from. They get pushed out from a lowflying plane, surviving the landing would be a feat in itself, and supplies get dropped once a month. No shelter, no toilet facilities, no weapons other than those they fashion for themselves, no medical treatment available.
Only people such as this man would be sent there - those who show no remorse, who openly "celebrate" their atrocities, those who are recidivist offenders who might say they're rehabilitated but show they're not by their continued offending.
Just an idea. They'd probably all kill each other off for sport within a short space of time anyway.

We could call it "Australia." :2thumbsup

[Genestho]

We could call it "Australia." :2thumbsup

LOL, had exactly this conversation in Oz with an Aussie guy a couple of weeks back when painting a Memorial for my husband over there.
Bloke stopped to have look, asked what it was all about, we got stuck in and had a chat about changing the world.

He said things were pretty bad there with regards to "justice" and gave me his own personal example.

We discussed the "Island for crims" idea, and laughed loudly and madly for a long time at the irony.

[Skyryder]

Justice is not something that works or not works it is done or not done whichever the case maybe.

Skyryder

[vifferman]

Law and justice are not always the same.
Although 'the system' is sometimes referred to as a "justice system", this is in fact incorrect. We have a legal system in NooZilund, and only occasionally does it result in justice being served. More often it's just the due process of the law being followed.
People who ask for justice are more often actually looking for revenge. Nothing can undo a crime (except perhaps sometimes a theft), so it is very unlikely to ever be a perfect or even satisfactory outcome to a trial.

It's hopeless. Locking up people to keep them from endangering other people works, but only as long as they remain locked up. The only people for whom punitive measures work are usually those who don't require them anyway: the people for who the offense was a first one, and usually a 'crime of passion', and who are so remorseful anyway that they're most unlikely to ever repeat the offense. For most of the others - those who are already or will be likely to be habitual offenders, the 'sensible' option of leniency on the first offense, followed by increasingly harsh penalties, inures and hardens them to the punishment so it actually works to turn them into hardened criminals. Plus you have the whole "university of crime" aspect of imprisonment, where they are in entirely the wrong environment to become rehabilitated anyway, instead being 'taught' or badly influenced by those around them.

The increasingly 'PC' aspect of our society has also resulted in a strange anomaly too, where in endeavouring to "do the right thing" as far as the wrongdoers are concerned, so that 'we' are not being as bad as them, we forget about the rights of the victims, who end up suffering even more than they should, especially when they're somehow led to believe they will get some kind of 'justice', when all they should expect really, is that the legal system doesn't fuck up and let the perpetrators get away unpunished.

But you knew all this.

[Genestho]

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People who ask for justice are more often actually looking for revenge.


Im going to disagree with that statement, for quite a few reasons.
Because I know some of the hardships and fuckups faced at these trials, and I know of the outcomes which are not satisfactory in accordance to the crime, and that has nothing to do with revenge, although I do agree with most other parts of your post.

As an example I pass on an email, from a friend Ive shared my journey with, and have taken out names, ages and sex to protect this person, this was a high profile case.

"One small thing sums up how the legal systems see victims. The Judge and Jury got glass water jugs and glasses to drink from during the trial. The lawyers, defendent, court officials and journalists got plastic jugs and cups. The victims got nothing.

I had never been in a court until this case - bail hearings(bail!!!), depositions, trial. Like most people we trusted the system and indeed eventually got a guilty verdict, despite the barriers put up by the whole legal system, the blatant dishonesty of the defence and the complicity of the Judge.

To add insult to injury, the Judge gave ____ the minimum sentence he could, despite the numbers injured and traumatised as well as the loss of lives.
_____ has shown no remorse and has a previous record of serious violent assaults against both men and women. I have also heard that he has sexual assault and knifepoint robbery convictions. The Police have refused to give me his exact criminal record "to protect his human rights". He has since had a GBH conviction on a fellow prisoner following an unprovoked attack when he was awaiting his trial. If this scumbag had been in prison, my _____ would be age and continuing to love life. Similar stories are manifest amongst victims, often worse in the sense that criminals had killed or raped before."

There are stories of complete and utter screwups at all levels, its got nothing to do with revenge, its got to do with "Justice" in accordance to the crime and respect to the victims at all levels.

[pete376403]

Interesting article in the Dompost this morning about a Muslim woman blinded by a spurned suitor who threw acid into her eyes.
Court sentenced the man to 5 drops of sulphuric acid in each eye.

Iranian justice sometimes gets things right.