Does warranty cover fork seals?

[Ripperjon]

Hi folks,

Just noticed one of my fork seals is a bit greasy and theres a line of greasy dusty stuff on my fork. Just on the one side.

Being completely inexperienced with bike mechanics, i was wondering if that means the seal is definitely buggered?
Is it possible that a hard bump could make it leak a bit, then it's fine? In which case i guess i should clean off the grimey stuff and see if it makes a re-appearance?

Also, if it is buggered, should i get it sorted under warranty? (My bike is 9 months old with a 2 year warranty.) Or are seals perishables that need replacing now and then?

cheers

[Max Preload]

Hi folks,

Just noticed one of my fork seals is a bit greasy and theres a line of greasy dusty stuff on my fork. Just on the one side.

Being completely inexperienced with bike mechanics, i was wondering if that means the seal is definitely buggered?
Is it possible that a hard bump could make it leak a bit, then it's fine? In which case i guess i should clean off the grimey stuff and see if it makes a re-appearance?

Also, if it is buggered, should i get it sorted under warranty? (My bike is 9 months old with a 2 year warranty.) Or are seals perishables that need replacing now and then?

cheers

Seals are consumables but not 9 monthly consumables - it should be a warranty item. It'd have to be a very significant knock to cause a one time leakage, but by all means clean it off and check for reoccurance.

Also check for damage on the fork stanchion - it's possible a significant stone may have hit it causing damage which has then nicked the seal. In that case it definitely won't be covered by your warranty.

Don't forget, you've got much more protection than just the mere manufacturers written warranty. You're covered by the CGA too. So if at first they refuse to repair under warranty, make sure you get their reasons.

[Ripperjon]

cool, thanks for that. i'll go have a look for any stone damage now.

With regard to wiping off the grime. Should i use any old dry rag. Should the fork be dry or slightly oily?

cheers, sorry for complete lack of knowledge.

[Ripperjon]

No stone damage. more oil on the lower / outer part of the suspension too.

Bugger, on the blower to the garage tomorrow then :doctor:

[klyong82]

I know a mate who had a brand new bike but because he loves to do wheelies on it somehow caused the seals to leak. But in your case it is worth going back to the dealer to see what they can do. For a bike that is only 9 months old should not leak unless you have already clocked 40,000km on it.

[scroter]

fork seals are consumable items so i would guess not warrantable. the only times i have had to replace fork seals was after hitting bad potholes or bumps where the suspension compresses completely and the next thing to give is the seal. on 2 occasions I can pinpoint when and where they blew, i mean you know when the suspension gets forced so hard it blows a fork seal, they aint no ordinary bumps.

[Ocean1]

it should be a warranty item. It'd have to be a very significant knock to cause a one time leakage, but by all means clean it off and check for reoccurance.

Yup, if there's no damage to the stanchion I'd expect the shop to cover it.


fork seals are consumable items so i would guess not warrantable. the only times i have had to replace fork seals was after hitting bad potholes or bumps where the suspension compresses completely and the next thing to give is the seal. on 2 occasions I can pinpoint when and where they blew, i mean you know when the suspension gets forced so hard it blows a fork seal, they aint no ordinary bumps.

You probably shouldn't expect a road bike to take the abuse an MX bike does, however, fork seals are neither a mechanical stop or a hydraulic one. Even fully compressed the only extra load on the seals is caused by the increased air pressure in the forks.

It's not unheard of to find assembly scratches in seal cavities or seals which are simply not fitted properly, if the oil reappears after a wipe down tell the shop you expect it to be sorted.

[Cr1MiNaL]

Absolutely 100% not a warranty item. Ask me ive been through so many seals on so many bikes that i lost count a few years ago. Although henderson motorcycles alyways did them for me, for free. And i was stoked when i checked my warranty claims against what was recovered from yamaha and to my surprise i had no claims. I.e henderson motorcycles bore the costs and didnt even tell me. Later on checking my manual out of sheer guilt, it clearly stipulates fork seals are not covered under yamaha's warranty. Try though, ask nicely.

[Ocean1]

Absolutely 100% not a warranty item.

They are on Buells. :cool:

[homer]

shop should fix it , remember that you only need a dryed on bug to cut a seal as well .
get a couple of them wee plastic fork protectors , at least you then have something to help a bit .

[Gubb]

Piece of piss to change yourself too.

At least it is after my 3rd time doing them.

[vifferman]

It's kinda tough if it's not a warranty item, as who's to say that it hasn't been installed wrong at the factory or was a faulty part to start with? It does happen. I've only ever had two fork seals go - the first on a 3-year old dirt bike, and the second on a 9 year old road bike. I'd be pissed off if one went after only 9 months on a new bike.

[Badjelly]

...it clearly stipulates fork seals are not covered under yamaha's warranty.

The warranty that came with my Scorpio also specifically excludes "piston seizure". (This might be reasonable on a racing two-stroke, but on a low-performance 4-stroke!?!) If the piston had seized on my Scorpio in its 1st year, for some reason other than neglect on my part, I would have had a serious discussion with the dealer about repairing the damage at no expense to me under the CGA, warranty clause or no. Ditto with the fork seals.

[Max Preload]

Later on checking my manual out of sheer guilt, it clearly stipulates fork seals are not covered under yamaha's warranty.

It's precisely that sort of complete bullshit warranty that gave rise to the CGA and later incorporated motor vehicle dealer sales.

[warewolf]

You can quote portions of the manufacturer's warranty, but you should also quote the bit that says it cannot remove your statuatory rights under law... ie the CGA. :yes:

I've had fork seals replaced under warranty. On road bikes they should last a fairly long time. One pair was replaced at 40,000km then again at 50,000km because one of the new ones only lasted about 5,000km. The bike would have been close to 12 months old, can't remember if it was a 1- or 2-year warranty. I thought it was rather generous of them to do them under warranty at that mileage, but wasn't going to argue.

Seals can leak because of detritus wedged in there. It is quite common on dirt bikes to clean the seals by sticking a feeler gauge, business card or 35mm film negative carefully up between the fork and the seal, and wipe the grit out. The purists will say "don't do it" but it is in my KTM service manuals as something to be done potentially after every ride.

[Max Preload]

I think you'll find that's just the dust seals, not the oil seals, which also have a dust wiper on them as well.

[Ripperjon]

Just got off the blower with the friendly fellas in Invers.

They're ordering in a couple o' seals and will switch and refill 'em under warranty no problems. Just gotta wait a couple o weeks cos they're chockablock til Jan apparently.

They also mentioned the 35mm film cleaning method. I'll give that a go. Good job i used to work in the cinema! (A business card sounds a bit on the thick side for my liking)

I'm guessing there's dust got in there from the short gravel road i have to ride on every day just outside work. I can't see any visible damage anywhere.

Cheers for the advice fellers.

Oh, and tell the Yamaha dealer your next bike will be a green one :chase:

[warewolf]

Actually I've found a business card works better, the grit embeds in the fibrous cardboard and comes out of the seal nicely. It's also easier to use, plastic film gets mighty slippery when fork oil runs onto it.

[Ripperjon]

oh.. maybe i'll give that a go then. Just thought a card would be a bit thick. Don't know 'til u try i suppose.

[Robert Taylor]

You can quote portions of the manufacturer's warranty, but you should also quote the bit that says it cannot remove your statuatory rights under law... ie the CGA. :yes:

I've had fork seals replaced under warranty. On road bikes they should last a fairly long time. One pair was replaced at 40,000km then again at 50,000km because one of the new ones only lasted about 5,000km. The bike would have been close to 12 months old, can't remember if it was a 1- or 2-year warranty. I thought it was rather generous of them to do them under warranty at that mileage, but wasn't going to argue.

Seals can leak because of detritus wedged in there. It is quite common on dirt bikes to clean the seals by sticking a feeler gauge, business card or 35mm film negative carefully up between the fork and the seal, and wipe the grit out. The purists will say "don't do it" but it is in my KTM service manuals as something to be done potentially after every ride.

Indeed. Another factor that seriously undermines fork seal life are strong washing detergents and repeated power washing, most often seen with dirt bikes. How many users rework grease into the seals to stop the seals ''drying out'' etc?
Warranty is as often justified as it is unjustified and with items such as fork seals its a grey area. I also know that the Consumer Guarantees Act has its merits but it has also been widely abused.

[warewolf]

How many users rework grease into the seals to stop the seals ''drying out'' etc?Are you suggesting this should, or should not, be done? I'm up for better maintenance, must admit I've never heard of that before.

Another thing I've not done is pack the dust seal with grease, to catch crud before it hits the oil seal. What do you think of that trick? I haven't read any reports of people saying it caused a problem, many think it works wonders for them.

Or another: put strips of foam in the dust seals, soaked in fork oil. My mtb has this feature ex-factory (non-USD forks though).

Interesting that WP and KTM offer conflicting information in their documentation. After cleaning the seals, one says spray the seal/slider with silicon spray. The other says specifically DON'T use silicon spray, do use Motorex Joker 440 (synthetic oil spray). In other applications I've noticed a sort of salty crust forming after using silicon, so I use the synth oil. To my thinking, it has the added benefit of having a less detrimental effect on the synthetic fork oil, should they mix.

Re: warranty etc, part of it boils down to your relationship with the dealer, as they often wear the costs or part of it. I support my local shops, they support me. More often in borderline situations I've been pleased rather than pissed.

[Ocean1]

Or another: put strips of foam in the dust seals, soaked in fork oil. My mtb has this feature ex-factory (non-USD forks though).

Used to do that on my KT. Seemed to help keep the wiper seals in good nick longer and kept a hint of oil on the chrome. Can't be bad.


Interesting that WP and KTM offer conflicting information in their documentation. After cleaning the seals, one says spray the seal/slider with silicon spray. The other says specifically DON'T use silicon spray, do use Motorex Joker 440 (synthetic oil spray). In other applications I've noticed a sort of salty crust forming after using silicon, so I use the synth oil. To my thinking, it has the added benefit of having a less detrimental effect on the synthetic fork oil, should they mix.

With appologies to RT...

One major consideration is seal material compatibility with oils. Some don't like some types of oil or additives. Faced with conflicting advice between an OE manufacturer and a seal manufacturer go with the seal guy's spec's. Polyurethane elastomers are wonderfully slippery and abrasive resistant and I like it as a fork seal material, but it don’t like pressure-contact with or immersion in mineral oils for long. Nitriles are more resistant but they wear a bit faster. EPDM is more or less immune to most lubricants but it’s not structurally as good. All these are common seal materials. Just to make things more confusing some of the new synthetics have really amazing properties, in the right application…

[Robert Taylor]

Used to do that on my KT. Seemed to help keep the wiper seals in good nick longer and kept a hint of oil on the chrome. Can't be bad.



With appologies to RT...

One major consideration is seal material compatibility with oils. Some don't like some types of oil or additives. Faced with conflicting advice between an OE manufacturer and a seal manufacturer go with the seal guy's spec's. Polyurethane elastomers are wonderfully slippery and abrasive resistant and I like it as a fork seal material, but it don’t like pressure-contact with or immersion in mineral oils for long. Nitriles are more resistant but they wear a bit faster. EPDM is more or less immune to most lubricants but it’s not structurally as good. All these are common seal materials. Just to make things more confusing some of the new synthetics have really amazing properties, in the right application…

Absolutely! And many oils, sprays and greases are not compatible with one another and can react quite badly. There is no textbook of what brands etc are incompatible.