The turning "right hand" rule - need clarification [Archive]

ckai

17th December 2008, 09:17

OK so I've been thinking about this for a little bit now ever since picking up the road code recently for my 6L after some 10 yr + absence from it.

There's a post that's similar to this here (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=87934) (may even be the same). I read over the first 3 pages and was gonna ask this question but noticed it went to 9 pages and looked like it was going off track.

Searched around also but no one has asked the question. No doubt I could have missed something though.

When coming up to an T intersection and you're turning right (Blue car) you give way to big red truck. Is this the same case if big red is on a stop or giveway and you are in a turning bay?

Also how many people actually do this in the general public? I've waited at intersections (big red) and mr blue car rocks up and stops right in front of my path. From the pic he's meant to let me go first. Never happens though.

Another question is, since I'm sitting my restricted soon, what do I do if this situation happens in the test? If Blue car is coming up to the turn, and me being big red have clear road apart from mr blue, do I go? My common sense of the general public says that I should wait BUT will the tester mark down because of not following the road rules?

Hope that's clear :) Can't be bothered reading over it again.

Badjelly

17th December 2008, 09:25

There are no problems with the current right hand rule. It's very simple. You must be mistaken. Isn't it weird you have problems with it and nobody else does? You're making all this up. You must be stupid/lazy/thick/blind.

PS: Sorry about the piss-take. If you do bother to read the thread you linked to, and an earlier thread linked to from there, you will see (amongst other things) that I agree: people don't obey this rule very often, do they?

PPS: Yes, a Give Way or Stop sign definitely does make a difference. But the existence of a turning bay is not relevant.

The Stranger

17th December 2008, 09:26

Is this the same case if big red is on a stop or giveway and you are in a turning bay?

No - the person at the stop sign yeilds.

Also how many people actually do this in the general public?

Me

Another question is, since I'm sitting my restricted soon, what do I do if this situation happens in the test? If Blue car is coming up to the turn, and me being big red have clear road apart from mr blue, do I go? My common sense of the general public says that I should wait BUT will the tester mark down because of not following the road rules?

Perhaps put this another way. If you crash you WILL fail. So don't let the other guy determine your destiny. They won't fail you however for the other drivers ignorance. If the other driver fails to yeild, you should - even if only for self preservation.

Damn, I hope this is not a piss take.

dipshit

17th December 2008, 09:28

When coming up to an T intersection and you're turning right (Blue car) you give way to big red truck. Is this the same case if big red is on a stop or giveway and you are in a turning bay?

No, If red is on a stop or giveaway sign then blue has right of way. A turning bay is just that... to give them somewhere to safely wait while giving way to any oncoming straight through traffic.

And usually a T intersection like that is marked with a giveaway or stop sign.

Badjelly

17th December 2008, 09:29

Damn, I hope this is not a piss take.

At least one of the first 3 messages on this thread is a piss-take. Possibly all 3. But, no, I didn't put ckai up to it.

Hitcher

17th December 2008, 09:30

1vanvan1

17th December 2008, 09:31

vifferman

17th December 2008, 09:35

When coming up to an T intersection and you're turning right (Blue car) you give way to big red truck. Is this the same case if big red is on a stop or giveway and you are in a turning bay?
No, then red gives way.

Also how many people actually do this in the general public? I've waited at intersections (big red) and mr blue car rocks up and stops right in front of my path. From the pic he's meant to let me go first. Never happens though.
There are a couple of things at work here: the "car stops right in front of you" is just rudeness and impatience (and illegal - as by law you're not allowed to enter an intersection unless your way through it is clear), with Mr Blue Car just insisting on a right of way he does not legally have.
The second thing is that there are some weird "informal" (made up) rules that seem to work especially in D'Auckland. One of them is "the little road gives way to the big road". In your example pic, the road the red bus is on is the "little road" as it's an offshoot of the other road which goes right through, (plus it's wider) thus is the "big road". It's another version of "might is right". This has absolutely NO legal status, but that's how it works in some people's minds. Be aware of this, and that people don't always know what the actual rules are, and even if they do, they don't abide by them.
In practice, there are very few uncontrolled intersections like this, because people are too stupid to work out the rules (the real ones).

Another question is, since I'm sitting my restricted soon, what do I do if this situation happens in the test? If Blue car is coming up to the turn, and me being big red have clear road apart from mr blue, do I go? My common sense of the general public says that I should wait BUT will the tester mark down because of not following the road rules?
It's a tricky one, that you have to "play by ear", that is, see what happens at the time. If you do give way when you actually have right of way, explain to the tester that you were aware of the rules, but didn't assert them because you were exercising caution and the other vehicle gave every indication it wasn't going to give way to you.

MisterD

17th December 2008, 09:37

"Right of way" is something other road users give you. If they don't give it to you, you haven't got it.

That is possibly the most sensible thing I have ever heard said on the subject.

Unfortunately 95% of road users don't understand that using the roads is a team game, with the objective that everybody gets to the other end of their journey alive and unscathed...

Badjelly

17th December 2008, 09:40

Whatever "rule" is applied at intersections, 43.1% of road users just won't get it.

The carnage during the transition will be truly heinous.

"Right of way" is something other road users give you. If they don't give it to you, you haven't got it.

In turn...

No. If traffic on an "ending road" at a T intersection had to give way to traffic on a "continuing road", I reckon most people would get it. (Given that this is what most people do now anyway.)

I really really doubt that. But feel free to support your statement with evidence from other road-rule transitions overseas.

Yes.

MSTRS

17th December 2008, 09:43

:thud: Another motorist who has no idea of what they are doing. What is so difficult about giving way to the right? Do you have your hands on backwards?

yungatart

17th December 2008, 09:45

Good on you for asking for clarification.
But it is really scary to think you have been riding around for approximately six months, with no idea of what to do at an intersection.

Best you learn quick young fella!

Badjelly

17th December 2008, 09:47

MSTRS, Ixion, Stranger, etc, you're stuck in a loop. The current rule is really simple, so anyone can understand it. But so many people clearly don't understand it. (Pause to deal cognitive dissonance). So they're all stupid. In fact, they're so stupid, if the rules were changed, they wouldn't be able to understand them either.

So logical and so wrong. We're talking about human behaviour here.

yungatart

17th December 2008, 09:54

MSTRS, Hitcher, Stranger, etc, you're stuck in a loop. The current rule is really simple, so anyone can understand it. But so many people clearly don't understand it. (Pause to deal cognitive dissonance). So they're all stupid. In fact, they're so stupid, if the rules were changed, they wouldn't be able to understand them either.
So logical and so wrong. We're talking about human behaviour here.

I guess I'm one of the etc's..

You are quite right..if the rule was changed, the idiots would still not understand it, we would still have idiots hellbent on destruction on our roads, we would still have carnage.

Then what would you and your band of "lets dumb it down for the idiots" brigade do??

Badjelly

17th December 2008, 09:56

MSTRS, Hitcher, Stranger, etc, you're stuck in a loop...

As am I. I think I've said everything I have to say (more than once) and I will spare you all further reiteration. ... Unless I or someone else can come up with some new evidence. I mean, I don't think we don't have to do things exactly the same way they do overseas, but you'd think we could learn something from their experience.

johan

17th December 2008, 09:58

I have to go through three intersections like the above one on my way to work. I would estimate about 33% of the time drivers understand who has right of way. It's madness.

Here's another good example of how the road engineers completely fail to build a safe intersection on a major road in Wellington. It plain too complex for drivers to work out who has right of way. I hate going through there.

Badjelly

17th December 2008, 10:01

Then what would you and your band of "lets dumb it down for the idiots" brigade do??

Oh damn! I just wrote a "bye for now" post. But I have to respond.

Yes you are still stuck in the loop. They're not idiots, they're people who find some things easier to understand than others. They're people who after 30 years still think, somehow, that traffic on the side road should give way to traffic on the main road. Design some road rules that work in the real world, with human drivers, rather than ones that look good on paper!

yungatart

17th December 2008, 10:16

Oh damn! I just wrote a "bye for now" post. But I have to respond.

Yes you are still stuck in the loop. They're not idiots, they're people who find some things easier to understand than others. They're people who after 30 years still think, somehow, that traffic on the side road should give way to traffic on the main road. Design some road rules that work in the real world, with human drivers, rather than ones that look good on paper!

How about, instead of changing the rules to accomodate those who can not or will not understand, we make it so much harder and more expensive for those people to obtain a licence in the first place?
How about we have a much harder, more comprehensive driver testing system, zero tolerance to alcohol impaired drivers on our roads, minimum driving age of 18, repeat drunk drivers banned for ever, compulsory defensive driving course for all new drivers, practical driving test every time you renew your licence, enforcement of road rules (as opposed to enforcement of speed laws)?

Well, that is what is done in other parts of the world...must be able to work here...

ckai

17th December 2008, 10:55

Damn, I hope this is not a piss take.

No piss take

No, If red is on a stop or giveaway sign then blue has right of way. A turning bay is just that... to give them somewhere to safely wait while giving way to any oncoming straight through traffic.

And usually a T intersection like that is marked with a giveaway or stop sign.

This is what I was after. If it's controlled by way of signs then blue car rocks through. If nothing, treat like a round-about.

It's a tricky one, that you have to "play by ear", that is, see what happens at the time. If you do give way when you actually have right of way, explain to the tester that you were aware of the rules, but didn't assert them because you were exercising caution and the other vehicle gave every indication it wasn't going to give way to you.

Simple idea but good idea. I think a lot of people are scared to explain why they did something on a text when safety was concerned even if it wasn't by the book

:thud: Another motorist who has no idea of what they are doing. What is so difficult about giving way to the right? Do you have your hands on backwards?

I had an accident when I was young. It's an absolute asshole using the front break with your toes. The sad thing is, if I was in America they would change the right hand rule to allow for my "condition" and call it the right hand/foot rule.

Good on you for asking for clarification.
But it is really scary to think you have been riding around for approximately six months, with no idea of what to do at an intersection.

Best you learn quick young fella!

Riding 6 months, driving 15 years. Never hand or caused an accident so obviously doing something right.

I do notice that given a situation like the picture, there will nearly always be a sign (giveway or stop) to stop confusion for us mere mortals. I have come across only 2 times when there hasn't been something - round-about type situation, so right hand (foot) rule applies.

Yes it's a simple rule if minor details are cleared up (for me anyway) but obviously something is going wrong if only the minority of people get it. How do people react when traffic lights got out? Mmmmm me thinks education is lacking.

Thanks for the clear up though.

Ixion

17th December 2008, 11:00

In turn...

No. If traffic on an "ending road" at a T intersection had to give way to traffic on a "continuing road", I reckon most people would get it. (Given that this is what most people do now anyway.)

I really really doubt that. But feel free to support your statement with evidence from other road-rule transitions overseas.

Yes.

Until they come to a Y intersection. or the 'ending' road at a T intersection is a 'main' road, and the continuing road a smaller ('side') road. Or two 'main' or two 'side' roads intersect.

Please define how a drivers knows if the road he is on is a "main" road or a "side" road?

Badjelly

17th December 2008, 11:09

Please define how a drivers knows if the road he is on is a "main" road or a "side" road?

In Victoria there is a rule specifically for T intersections that refers to "ending" roads and "continuing" roads--no "main" or "side" roads. They also have something in there that says a continuous centre line on a road makes it the continuing road. So a Y can get converted into a T with some paint. (Not all that different to our rule that says the traffic following a continuous centre line is effectively going straight. If that's what it says, I find that bit confusing. Obviously I'm stupid. Me and a few others.)

Owl

17th December 2008, 11:19

And usually a T intersection like that is marked with a giveaway or stop sign.

Not where I live! Uncontrolled T intersections are everywhere!:yes:

The Stranger

17th December 2008, 11:19

(Not all that different to our rule that says the traffic following a continuous centre line is effectively going straight. If that's what it says, I find that bit confusing. Obviously I'm stupid. Me and a few others.)

Yeah, I realise that. I didn't think for a minute it was malice.

Ixion

17th December 2008, 11:45

In Victoria there is a rule specifically for T intersections that refers to "ending" roads and "continuing" roads--no "main" or "side" roads. They also have something in there that says a continuous centre line on a road makes it the continuing road. So a Y can get converted into a T with some paint. (Not all that different to our rule that says the traffic following a continuous centre line is effectively going straight. If that's what it says, I find that bit confusing. Obviously I'm stupid. Me and a few others.)

Riggght. So now, I have to spot the give way/stop signs , if any ; spot the other vehicles indicators ; AND observe the centre line before and after,on both roads.

Weren't you the one saying it was too hard to check for the signs and indicators. And now you want us to have to inspect the centre lines as well. And what If I can't see the centre line, because I'm in the left hand lane of a busy road?

As opposed to simply saying "Is there someone on my right. Oh yeah, give way to him"

Marmoot

17th December 2008, 12:20

When coming up to an T intersection and you're turning right (Blue car) you give way to big red truck. Is this the same case if big red is on a stop or giveway and you are in a turning bay?

1. Look at the lines on the road (stop lines, giveway lines, etc). Lane with 1 line takes priority over lane with 2 lines. Lane with 0 line takes priority over lane with 1 line.

2. If the number of lines are the same, vehicle which can hit you on your right hand side gets the priority.

3. Vehicle size takes priority. Anything bigger than you should be given way, regardless who's at fault.

4. Your mate's sister is normally hot.

Badjelly

17th December 2008, 12:25

Riggght. So now, I have to spot the give way/stop signs , if any ; spot the other vehicles indicators ; AND observe the centre line before and after,on both roads.

Weren't you the one saying it was too hard to check for the signs and indicators. And now you want us to have to inspect the centre lines as well. And what If I can't see the centre line, because I'm in the left hand lane of a busy road?

As opposed to simply saying "Is there someone on my right. Oh yeah, give way to him"

To what set of road rules does your last paragraph refer? The NSW rules in the 1970s? Certainly not the ones in effect in NZ at the moment.

At most T intersections it's quite obvious which is the ending road. At some Y intersections this needs to be clarified with some paint on the road (as is already the case in NZ, for slightly different reasons). If you're on the ending road you give way to everyone else (stopping if there is a Stop sign); if you're on the continuing road you don't have to give way to traffic on that road and it doesn't concern you whether there is a Give Way or Stop sign.

As always, you have to watch out for people who fail to give way when they should.

Oh, and by the way...

And what If I can't see the centre line, because I'm in the left hand lane of a busy road?

If there are unbroken lane markings, you follow them. Vehicles moving into your lane indicate and merge in the usual way. If your lane markings end then you have to work out why and act accordingly.

Badjelly

17th December 2008, 12:27

1. Look at the lines on the road (stop lines, giveway lines, etc). Lane with 1 line takes priority over lane with 2 lines. Lane with 0 line takes priority over lane with 1 line.

2. If the number of lines are the same, vehicle which can hit you on your right hand side gets the priority.

3. Vehicle size takes priority. Anything bigger than you should be given way, regardless who's at fault.

4. Your mate's sister is normally hot.

How many of those are serious?

Ixion

17th December 2008, 12:29

To what set of road rules does your last paragraph refer? The NSW rules in the 1970s? Certainly not the ones in effect in NZ at the moment.

At most T intersections it's quite obvious which is the ending road. At some Y intersections this needs to be clarified with some paint on the road (as is already the case in NZ, for slightly different reasons). If you're on the ending road you give way to everyone else (stopping if there is a Stop sign); if you're on the continuing road you don't have to give way to traffic on that road and it doesn't concern you whether there is a Give Way or Stop sign.

As always, you have to watch out for people who fail to give way when they should.

Oh, and by the way...

If there are unbroken lane markings, you follow them. Vehicles moving into your lane indicate and merge in the usual way. If your lane markings end then you have to work out why and act accordingly.

And this is supposed to be a simplification? Do you really imagine that the people who are too stupid to apply the present rule are going to have a gnats chance of figuring that lot out ?

Oh, and how is your system going to work on gravel roads ?

Marmoot

17th December 2008, 12:29

How many of those are serious?

I would say all of them.

Badjelly

17th December 2008, 12:48

And this is supposed to be a simplification?

No.

Do you really imagine that the people who are too stupid to apply the present rule are going to have a gnats chance of figuring that lot out ?

There you go again. "The problem with the current road rules is that people are too stupid."

Oh, and how is your system going to work on gravel roads?

T intersections are straightforward. At Y and X intersections you apply the other rules.

I believe they have one or two gravel roads in Victoria. Do you know how well their road rules work there?

Ixion

17th December 2008, 12:55

No.

There you go again. "The problem with the current road rules is that people are too stupid."

T intersections are straightforward. At Y and X intersections you apply the other rules.

I believe they have one or two gravel roads in Victoria. Do you know how well their road rules work there?

No they're not. You're latest theory depends on using centreline markings to determine who gives way. How do you do that on a gravel road?

And "other rules" ? Are you saying that you would have MORE rules still ? My head is already spinning from figuring out whether I'm on a main road, a side road, what the centre line markings are , whether the road is ending or not , let alone stop and give signs. Oh , and the other vehicles. And you have more to go?

I'm glad you admit this is not a simplification. Weren't you the one complaining that the present method is "too hard".

MSTRS

17th December 2008, 12:57

I had an accident when I was young. It's an absolute asshole using the front break with your toes. The sad thing is, if I was in America they would change the right hand rule to allow for my "condition" and call it the right hand/foot rule.
.

Sorry to hear that you have some sort of disability. But all vehicles are designed to suit 'normal' people. I sincerely hope that you have adapted your bike to suit your particular needs. If not, then you are a danger to yourself and others by using something that you cannot easily control.
Besides, what has any of that (vehicle control) got to do with not/understanding the road rules?

And as for the posts talking about giving way to the 'main' road....
Do those posters seriously think that there is a majority of drivers out there under the age of 45 who use the above? Where did they learn it?
Yes, it makes sense to do so, but sense doesn't make the rules...and most drivers got their licences under the current regime.

nodrog

17th December 2008, 13:07

____________________

Badjelly

17th December 2008, 14:02

No they're not. You're latest theory depends on using centreline markings to determine who gives way. How do you do that on a gravel road?

In much the same way as you apply this on a gravel road....

Leaving the path of the centre line at an uncontrolled intersection

If you are leaving the path of a marked centre line at an uncontrolled intersection, you must give way to vehicles following the centre line. This is because vehicles leaving the path of the centre line are legally turning (even though sometimes they might actually be going in a straight line) and therefore, the give way rules apply.

...you don't. There aren't any centre lines on gravel roads so it doesn't apply.

And "other rules" ? Are you saying that you would have MORE rules still ?

Nope. I was referring to the other rules I suggested before, long long ago on another thread. (It was remiss of me not to refresh your memory):

Give way to right
Right turning gives way to everyone else (straight ahead and left-turning)
Traffic on ending road at T intersection gives way to continuing road

To which I should have added

Give way on give way sign
Give way on stop sign

I'm glad you admit this is not a simplification. Weren't you the one complaining that the present method is "too hard".

There's no "admit" about it.

You really can't stop conflating simplicity with ease of application, can you?

And can you please try to be a little less shrill? (Eg. "Latest theory", "MORE rules".) I believe the current NZ road rules don't work very well. I believe the reason is more than just "people are stupid". I was challenged to suggest an alternative. I did. I only had to go across the Tasman to find one. It's not the only possible alternative. (I'm inclined to think going back to "Right turning traffic gives way to everyone else. When two vehicles are turning right, courtesy prevails" might work better. I don't think drivers in the 70s were actually more courteous than they are now; on the whole, I think they were less so, because of the lower traffic densities.) Whatever. Constructive discussion is welcome.

Hitcher

17th December 2008, 14:05

Give way on give way sign
Give way on stop sign

I have never been able to figure out, or have anybody give me a good reason, why there are two different standards for giving way at an intersection. Why can't they all be compulsory stops?

Badjelly

17th December 2008, 14:07

And as for the posts talking about giving way to the 'main' road....Do those posters seriously think that there is a majority of drivers out there under the age of 45 who use the above?

It is my impression that a large number of drivers, probably the majority, get the rule we've been talking about wrong. I frequently encounter these people at the top of the street I live on. Sorry, I haven't asked them how old they are. They're not all over 45.

Where did they learn it?

Yeah, that's a puzzle.

The Stranger

17th December 2008, 14:16

Yeah, that's a puzzle.

But no worries, we'll change the law to suit.

Whilst we are at it, lets have a new law banning indicators, hell so many people can't use them or use them wrong. And lets face it, they're so bloody hard to see anyway why have them?

MSTRS

17th December 2008, 14:19

Give way on give way sign
Give way on stop sign

So this is where people get it wrong? I was of the mistaken belief that I had to actually stop at one of those...:rolleyes:

(I'm inclined to think going back to "Right turning traffic gives way to everyone else. When two vehicles are turning right, courtesy prevails" might work better. he insurance industry (and traffic fines gathering industry) will never go for it. This is a blame society now.

I don't think drivers in the 70s were actually more courteous than they are now; on the whole, I think they were less so, because of the lower traffic densities.) Whatever. Constructive discussion is welcome.Drivers were. As was the rest of the populace. With the odd exception of course. Today's society is almost a mirror in that regard.

Badjelly

17th December 2008, 14:25

So this is where people get it wrong? I was of the mistaken belief that I had to actually stop at one of those

You may smirk, but under the infamous NSW road rules in the 1970s, you had to stop at a Stop sign, but you didn't have to give way. I recall sitting in a long, stationary queue of traffic that was giving way to a succession of cars that approached from the right, stopped at a stop sign, then drove on.

The insurance industry (and traffic fines gathering industry) will never go for it. This is a blame society now.

This may be true, unfortunately.

Drivers were [more courteous in the 70s].

I beg to differ. Stopping to let someone into a line of traffic was unheard of in Auckland in the 70s. It's common now. But perhaps that's because I moved to Wellington.

ckai

17th December 2008, 14:45

Sorry to hear that you have some sort of disability. But all vehicles are designed to suit 'normal' people. I sincerely hope that you have adapted your bike to suit your particular needs. If not, then you are a danger to yourself and others by using something that you cannot easily control.
Besides, what has any of that (vehicle control) got to do with not/understanding the road rules?

Sorry, sarcasm is the lowest form of humour that I frequently use.

It's interesting, I post a simple request for some clarification on a situation that is, clearly, often misunderstood. I say clearly because there are some "season veterans" that are having a good 'ole discussion about the rules.

Love the shit slinging on this site though... :jerry:

Scouse

17th December 2008, 14:45

When coming up to an T intersection and you're turning right (Blue car) you give way to big red truck. Is this the same case if big red is on a stop or giveway and you are in a turning bay.Also a good rule of thumb here is that if you are on a motorcycle in the position that the big red truck is in and the blue car does not seem to want to give way, then dont play chicken with blue car in order to argue the point its easyer to just let him go.

Badjelly

17th December 2008, 14:56

It's interesting, I post a simple request for some clarification on a situation that is, clearly, often misunderstood. I say clearly because there are some "season veterans" that are having a good 'ole discussion about the rules.

Love the shit slinging on this site though... :jerry:

Yeah, sorry for playing a part in derailing your thread, mate. Your timing was a bit ... unfortunate.

MSTRS

17th December 2008, 15:33

Sorry, sarcasm is the lowest form of humour that I frequently use.

It's interesting, I post a simple request for some clarification on a situation that is, clearly, often misunderstood. I say clearly because there are some "season veterans" that are having a good 'ole discussion about the rules.

Then best not be using it in the context of my attempt to clarify something you have trouble with. I can't speak for others, but I was genuinely trying to help.
I just can't understand why anyone would have trouble with the right hand rule. Or with indicating at roundabouts.
All I am left with is the realisation that there are a fuckload of blithering idiots out there who fluked their driving tests.

Owl

17th December 2008, 16:21

I have never been able to figure out, or have anybody give me a good reason, why there are two different standards for giving way at an intersection. Why can't they all be compulsory stops?

You've sort of answered your own question. They are two different standards, with stop being the major and give way being the minor. Why have compulsory stops at minor intersections?

ckai

17th December 2008, 21:28

Yeah, sorry for playing a part in derailing your thread, mate. Your timing was a bit ... unfortunate.

Hey, everyone has the right to vent. I got my answers (and a little more :)) so I'm cool. At least I know I was doing things the right way, even if I was in the minority bracket.

Then best not be using it in the context of my attempt to clarify something you have trouble with. I can't speak for others, but I was genuinely trying to help.
I just can't understand why anyone would have trouble with the right hand rule. Or with indicating at roundabouts.
All I am left with is the realisation that there are a fuckload of blithering idiots out there who fluked their driving tests.

Why do people speed up on passing lanes or drive fast on straights and not keep the same "pace" around corners?? New Zealanders are educated inappropriately when it comes to the roads. They're educated, just not well enough. I'm the type of person they reckons more education not more restrictions (e.g. laws) improves road safety.

I don't bitch or complain about it. I try and do something about it.

robboh

17th December 2008, 22:36

Why do people speed up on passing lanes or drive fast on straights and not keep the same "pace" around corners?? New Zealanders are educated inappropriately when it comes to the roads. They're educated, just not well enough. I'm the type of person they reckons more education not more restrictions (e.g. laws) improves road safety.

For two reasons.
1) Its been shown that the wider the road, the faster people will unconsciously go. I even seem to recall some basic rule of thumb, eg 5km per 500mm wider road. So basically, they get to a passing lane, and its wider, so they speed up.

2) Road users are generally inconsiderate, self-absorbed, un-aware personages, sitting in their own little isolated world. And I seriously wonder about the intelligence and which weetbix box they got their license and driving instruction from.

I think modern cars actually have a lot to answer for this too, with so much sound deadening and over-servoed, dead, controls which further isolate them from what their car is doing.

I find myself driving not as well in my missus new Rav4 when compared to my older car. ONE of my pet peeves is people who cant keep a constant speed on the open road, even on a straight. I find that more difficult in the Rav as you dont really hear the change in engine pitch (and the Rav is an automatic which makes it worse, seems very unresponsive to fine throttle control, especially on slight hils) and so its easy to drop 5km/hr without noticing it.

As for the road rules. In an uncontrolled intersection, in a cage, if they are going to hit YOU in the drivers door, then YOU give way. Simple as that.

On controlled, or semi-controlled intersections (signs / lights), the controls take precedence and then the GWTTR rule applies after that.

EG If you are not controlled, person on Give Way sign gives way to you. If you are both on Give Way, then GWTTR applies. As does Turning Traffic gives way to straight ahead.

As for your example, I have one of these uncontrolled T-intersections at the end of my road, and the number of times I have been Big Red and just had Blue bowl around the corner is ridiculous!! Partially, I think, because people ARE so used to the vast majority of T-intersections having a GiveWay on the joining road.

Then of course there is the opposite. You are blue, and give way like a good citizen should, and the dumb sheep in big-red sits there looking stupidly at you, wondering why you havent gone around the corner.

You being in a turning bay would have no bearing on things. And also, it used to be that if you were going to turn right, but couldnt immediately, that you would have to pull to the very left. So you will still occasionally have people doing that to you too :)

As far as Im aware (and I stand to be corrected if Im wrong), but a T-intersection created by a car-park entrance (or driveway etc) is a special case, where the person entering the road, ALWAYS gives way.
EDIT: As per below. I AM wrong. Public CarPark entrance does abide by standard rules. Does anyone know how to do a strikethrough on this forum?

ckai

18th December 2008, 06:53

For two reasons.
1) Its been shown that the wider the road, the faster people will unconsciously go. I even seem to recall some basic rule of thumb, eg 5km per 500mm wider road. So basically, they get to a passing lane, and its wider, so they speed up.

2) Road users are generally inconsiderate, self-absorbed, un-aware personages, sitting in their own little isolated world. And I seriously wonder about the intelligence and which weetbix box they got their license and driving instruction from.

I think modern cars actually have a lot to answer for this too, with so much sound deadening and over-servoed, dead, controls which further isolate them from what their car is doing.

I find myself driving not as well in my missus new Rav4 when compared to my older car. ONE of my pet peeves is people who cant keep a constant speed on the open road, even on a straight. I find that more difficult in the Rav as you dont really hear the change in engine pitch (and the Rav is an automatic which makes it worse, seems very unresponsive to fine throttle control, especially on slight hils) and so its easy to drop 5km/hr without noticing it.

Totally agree with you here. I love cruise control and it sure shows up people's inconsistent speed.

Also, I meet a chick once who I didn't get along with right from the start for some reason. Turns out she deliberately tried to piss off as many corner carvers on the road by doing STUPID speeds on the straight and slow around corners. :eek5: And she wasn't joking about it. I got caught behind her 3 days later!!

Ahhhh, fun times had by all when on public roads.

Max Preload

18th December 2008, 07:42

Totally agree with you here. I love cruise control and it sure shows up people's inconsistent speed.

Yep, I use cruise control plenty. Case in point, regarding people's inconsistent speed: I was on the southern motorway late on Tuesday night. I set the cruise control at 104km/h just off the Newmarket Viaduct. Traffic was very light. I was in the second lane from the barrier the entire trip except when overtaking when I used the right lane. There was a right lane hog woman that I caught just before Penrose and by doing the same speed I'd done the whole time her position varied by mine by plus and minus 100m and I think I undertook her three times before Manukau. :rofl:

MSTRS

18th December 2008, 08:19

Why do people speed up on passing lanes or drive fast on straights and not keep the same "pace" around corners??

And why are old men in hats allowed to drive?

New Zealanders are educated inappropriately when it comes to the roads. They're educated, just not well enough.
Actually, the education doled out in this country, from age 5+ is missing one crucial component....
How to think for yourself.

Badjelly

18th December 2008, 08:34

As far as I'm aware (and I stand to be corrected if I'm wrong), but a T-intersection created by a car-park entrance (or driveway etc) is a special case, where the person entering the road, ALWAYS gives way.

Consider yourself corrected then :msn-wink:.

According to the road code,

An intersection is where:
* two or more streets or roads join or cross
* a public entrance or exit joins a street or road.

The intersection between a public entrance or exit and a road has the same priority rules as any other intersection.

The intersection between a private driveway and a road isn't an intersection at all (in the above sense) so the give way rules in the road code don't apply. But I'm not sure what the applicable rules are, if any. Is there a rule that says a vehicle entering a roadway must give way to vehicles already on the roadway? That seems reasonable. However if the driveway is wide enough for only one vehicle, then it makes sense for the vehicle entering to give way to the vehicle leaving.

robboh

18th December 2008, 10:41

Consider yourself corrected then :msn-wink:.

According to the road code,

The intersection between a public entrance or exit and a road has the same priority rules as any other intersection.

The intersection between a private driveway and a road isn't an intersection at all (in the above sense) so the give way rules in the road code don't apply. But I'm not sure what the applicable rules are, if any. Is there a rule that says a vehicle entering a roadway must give way to vehicles already on the roadway? That seems reasonable. However if the driveway is wide enough for only one vehicle, then it makes sense for the vehicle entering to give way to the vehicle leaving.

Thanks! I must have gotten myself confuzzled with the private v's public entrance. I do seem to recall that a public carpark is still actually considered to be 'a road'. Must be time to do another Road-Code review. I havent read it in about 5 years (except to review the new roundabout indication rules) :Oops:

That will help with getting out of Wendys on Hillsborough Rd (Im always turning right), though I have a funny feeling it has no sign, but does have a single white line across the exit lane. :yes: