Another possible group to contact

[Mr Merde]

This week i have been on a course.

I got talking to some of the others with me and found out they were with the Auckland motorways Associates group. They maintain the motorways and state highways frrom Puhoi to Pokeno.

I got talking to them about the WRB's on the roads and how they affect those who have the bad luck to come in contact them. Especially motorcyclists.

They were most interested and as they take the phone calls about faults on these roads they suggested that we contact them and they will pass our concerns onto the people who are responsible.

They told me the phone number is 09 5200 200

They are going to give me the e-mail address tomorrow and I will post that up when i get home.

They did say that the more e-mails they get the better and even better if those e-mails have documentation etc to back them up.

They were very forthcomming and even one of them knew of some of the pitfalls of the things.

AMA is a body that represents all those companies that have anything to do with the Auckland motorways. I know it is Auckland based but it is a start.

Chris

[Mr Merde]

OK today I talked to the others on my course again.

Their department has only been set up since Oct 1st.

They are there to represent and coordinate all those companies that deal with the maintenance of the Auckland motorways.

After speaking to them yesterday they all had a good look at the WERB's and are of the same opinion as us, that they are dangerous.

So please start making your views known.

Their e-mail address is help@ama.nzta.govt.nz

Send them an e-mail. Include any documentation you can find that supports our beliefs that WRB's are dangerous and that they are being banned ocveseas because so.

Bombard them with infomation.

When i left them this afternoon they were already working out exactly whom to send it to in which company.

Chris.

[Mom]

Thank you for this contact Mr Merde :niceone:

[MSTRS]

I sent this to the above email...
I believe that this is the correct email address to contact regarding road 'furniture' concerns?
I write specifically as regards the wire rope barriers. I have spent a
lot of time researching their use all over the world, and cannot for the
life of me understand why these dangerous installations are permitted in
this country. There is not a country in the world that uses these things
that has not had motorcyclists killed by them, and indeed oncoming
traffic taken out by a heavy vehicle which is not stopped by the wires.
These supposed safety barriers may stop 'most' vehicles, but their
discriminatory nature means they expose a portion of road users to
greatly increased danger of injury/death and provide all other users
with a false sense of security. For this reason alone, there are at
least 4 countries within the EU that have banned their use, with others
looking at doing the same and certainly curtailing the amount in use.


Please let me know if I have reached 'someone' who will take note of
the above, and perhaps act on it.
Regards

[MSTRS]

This was the response...
Hello John
Thank you for your comments on wire rope barriers
You can be assured that your comments are taken seriously and I thank
you for them.

The New Zealand Transport Agency (NZTA) position remains the same from
that noted by its predecessor Transit NZ in November last year.

Transit New Zealand uses safety barriers around the country to make the
state highway network safer.

Barriers protect road users from many hazards, for example median
barriers reduce the risk of head-on crashes by separating opposing
traffic and roadside barriers protect cars from drop-offs and other
roadside hazards such as trees or power poles.

Different situations call for different solutions so we use three
different types of safety barriers – flexible (wire rope), semi-rigid
(steel) and rigid (concrete). Wire rope barriers are very
cost-effective – but cost is just one of a number of factors that
determines which barrier is the right choice for each location.

Transit currently installs around 25km of wire rope barriers on state
highways each year, and they are used extensively overseas. They are
extremely effective at reducing the severity of crashes and are the
barrier of choice in several countries.

We know that motorcyclists are concerned about their safety if they
were to hit a wire rope barrier. In response to these concerns we looked
at overseas research and studies. Our 2006 report shows that at this
stage there is no evidence of wire rope barriers posing any more of a
danger to motorcyclists than other barriers. A motorcyclist is likely
to sustain similarly serious injuries if they were to crash into another
type of barrier or, if the barrier wasn’t there, on-coming traffic or
a roadside hazard.

This is supported by New Zealand crash statistics. Between 2001 and
2006, there were a total of 4312 injury crashes involving motorcycles on
New Zealand roads. Of theses 80 involved collisions with a road safety
barrier, two of which were wire rope median barriers. None of the fatal
motorcycle crashes over this time involved a wire rope barrier, although
there has been one since.

However it is clear that more research is necessary. Through our
involvement in international roading organisations we continue to
exchange ideas and experience with our colleagues overseas and are
keeping a watching brief on trials of products aimed at making barriers
more forgiving if hit by a motorcyclist.

There are several countries where wire rope barriers are not currently
favoured. But there are many others where they continue to be promoted,
for example Sweden and Victoria, Australia, whose approaches to road
safety are held up as a good model for other countries to follow.

The Highway Agency has in the past made the following comments:
....the Highways Agency has not banned WRSF from our roads and it is
still included in the HA Approved Road Restraint System List and fully
complies with European Standard EN 1317. At present we have no plans to
discontinue the use of wire rope safety fence on the trunk road network
as they perform well and can be a very cost effective option. There is
however a perception from motorcyclists that WRSF offers a greater to
risk to dismounted riders than other steel safety barriers. From the
limited research we have at the moment it concludes that WRSF is no more
hazardous to motorcyclists than other types of post-and-rail barrier.
Barriers themselves are a hazard and they should only be used where they
can be justified and will be a positive safety benefit. Further research
is ongoing with TRL on the issue of motorcycle incidents with WRSF and
other safety barriers and this report should be complete by end March
2008.

Motorcyclists can be assured that because we take their safety
seriously we are committed to closely monitoring the performance of our
wire rope barriers and international developments on the topic. We’ll
also be looking for opportunities to meet with motorcyclists to hear
their concerns and share information with them.

Please be assured that NZTA continues to monitor the performance of
wire rope barriers and will keep abreast of continuing development from
overseas.
Once again, thank you for contacting us and your interest in road
safety
kind regards and compliments of the season to you

Brian Rainford

[MSTRS]

To which I replied...
Thank you for your 'party line' response.
As a motorcyclist, I am well aware that hitting solid objects is not a
desireable thing.
But I also know that the smaller the cross-section of that object is, the
worse the injuries are likely to be. The WRB presents a very small
cross-section in the posts from almost any angle and the wire from every
angle. It is not rocket science to realise that a strike from a knife blade
is worse than one from the flat of that same blade. To us, the entire WRB is
essentially a knife blade. A blade that cannot stop heavier vehicles either.
One way or another, eventually our concerns will have a impact on road
barrier policy. Better sooner than later, as you yourself say that 25km of
this crap is added to the system every year. The more there is out there,
the more opportunity there is for truck failures and motorcyclist deaths.
Hide behind your precious stats...there is a different reality for many of
us New Zealanders.
I am sure that there are all sorts of retro-fitted devices in trial if not
use around the world. Should these prove effective and are put to use here,
I will be grateful for that at least. But how do you propose to provide the
same improvement to the WRB in view of trucks not being contained? Because a
sock over the posts/wires just doesn't cut it.

[WelshWizard]

This was the response...
Hello John
Thank you for your comments on wire rope barriers
You can be assured that your comments are taken seriously and I thank
you for them.

The New Zealand Transport Agency (NZTA) position remains the same from
that noted by its predecessor Transit NZ in November last year.

Transit New Zealand uses safety barriers around the country to make the
state highway network safer.

Barriers protect road users from many hazards, for example median
barriers reduce the risk of head-on crashes by separating opposing
traffic and roadside barriers protect cars from drop-offs and other
roadside hazards such as trees or power poles.

Different situations call for different solutions so we use three
different types of safety barriers – flexible (wire rope), semi-rigid
(steel) and rigid (concrete). Wire rope barriers are very
cost-effective – but cost is just one of a number of factors that
determines which barrier is the right choice for each location.

Transit currently installs around 25km of wire rope barriers on state
highways each year, and they are used extensively overseas. They are
extremely effective at reducing the severity of crashes and are the
barrier of choice in several countries.

We know that motorcyclists are concerned about their safety if they
were to hit a wire rope barrier. In response to these concerns we looked
at overseas research and studies. Our 2006 report shows that at this
stage there is no evidence of wire rope barriers posing any more of a
danger to motorcyclists than other barriers. A motorcyclist is likely
to sustain similarly serious injuries if they were to crash into another
type of barrier or, if the barrier wasn’t there, on-coming traffic or
a roadside hazard.

This is supported by New Zealand crash statistics. Between 2001 and
2006, there were a total of 4312 injury crashes involving motorcycles on
New Zealand roads. Of theses 80 involved collisions with a road safety
barrier, two of which were wire rope median barriers. None of the fatal
motorcycle crashes over this time involved a wire rope barrier, although
there has been one since.

However it is clear that more research is necessary. Through our
involvement in international roading organisations we continue to
exchange ideas and experience with our colleagues overseas and are
keeping a watching brief on trials of products aimed at making barriers
more forgiving if hit by a motorcyclist.

There are several countries where wire rope barriers are not currently
favoured. But there are many others where they continue to be promoted,
for example Sweden and Victoria, Australia, whose approaches to road
safety are held up as a good model for other countries to follow.

The Highway Agency has in the past made the following comments:
....the Highways Agency has not banned WRSF from our roads and it is
still included in the HA Approved Road Restraint System List and fully
complies with European Standard EN 1317. At present we have no plans to
discontinue the use of wire rope safety fence on the trunk road network
as they perform well and can be a very cost effective option. There is
however a perception from motorcyclists that WRSF offers a greater to
risk to dismounted riders than other steel safety barriers. From the
limited research we have at the moment it concludes that WRSF is no more
hazardous to motorcyclists than other types of post-and-rail barrier.
Barriers themselves are a hazard and they should only be used where they
can be justified and will be a positive safety benefit. Further research
is ongoing with TRL on the issue of motorcycle incidents with WRSF and
other safety barriers and this report should be complete by end March
2008.

Motorcyclists can be assured that because we take their safety
seriously we are committed to closely monitoring the performance of our
wire rope barriers and international developments on the topic. We’ll
also be looking for opportunities to meet with motorcyclists to hear
their concerns and share information with them.

Please be assured that NZTA continues to monitor the performance of
wire rope barriers and will keep abreast of continuing development from
overseas.
Once again, thank you for contacting us and your interest in road
safety
kind regards and compliments of the season to you

Brian Rainford

Perhaps we should ask if they have read the following paper

http://www.eurorap.org/library/pdfs/20081202_Bikers.PDF

As all they really quote if information which is pre 2006, with a reference to one motorcycle death since,
in the last year the data has change greatly world wide, as these WRB ( WRSB) have increased world wide so have the deaths of motorcyclist World wide, also the deaths to other road users have increased, the death toll from unsafe barriers are increasing and so to is the response from authorities that show genuine concern about the lack of safety in design of barriers which are supposed to protect from cross over's, supposed to protect from hitting road side furniture such as power poles and lamp post { replacing one lamp post every 100 meters with a barrier that has a post every 2 meters has proved to be a disaster and is now having a panic affect on those who have a serious desire to be responsible when looking at safety(in the greater world that is)}

[Mystic13]

To which I replied...
Thank you for your 'party line' response.
As a motorcyclist, I am well aware that hitting solid objects is not a
desireable thing.
But I also know that the smaller the cross-section of that object is, the
worse the injuries are likely to be. The WRB presents a very small
cross-section in the posts from almost any angle and the wire from every
angle. It is not rocket science to realise that a strike from a knife blade
is worse than one from the flat of that same blade. To us, the entire WRB is
essentially a knife blade. A blade that cannot stop heavier vehicles either.
One way or another, eventually our concerns will have a impact on road
barrier policy. Better sooner than later, as you yourself say that 25km of
this crap is added to the system every year. The more there is out there,
the more opportunity there is for truck failures and motorcyclist deaths.
Hide behind your precious stats...there is a different reality for many of
us New Zealanders.
I am sure that there are all sorts of retro-fitted devices in trial if not
use around the world. Should these prove effective and are put to use here,
I will be grateful for that at least. But how do you propose to provide the
same improvement to the WRB in view of trucks not being contained? Because a
sock over the posts/wires just doesn't cut it.

I hadn't been in to the cheesecutter thing for a while.

I think you missed some points that the writer made. Firstly he compared WRB to other steel barriers and by this I assume he means steel barrier and wooden post barriers. I can accept that there may not be a large difference between the two to motorcycists in reality.

As a rider it seems to me you are comparing WRB to concrete barriers and they are not. So it seems to me that they are possibly increasing barriers for cars and are using WRB over steel and post.

Overall as riders we don't really do a good job of getting our case across and I've done pretty much nothing except the odd email.

My biggest concern is the increase of WRB or steel and post with both being dangerous.

There is tubing that has been fitted overseas that should be installed as a minimum to both.

What really struck me was two things the writer said.

1/ It's on the Highways Agency list. And as such is approved to use. We need to get it off this list.

2/ If they don't use WRB are they still going to install 25km's of steel barrier. because I don't want this either.

I should really get off my .... and do something because if I don't (and we all don't) there will be miles and miles of this stuff and we''l have ourselves to blame.

The question is can bikers put some serious heart into this issue. Ride slowly along roads in blockades. I believe the road code says ride to the conditions so i would think that it would be safest to ride past these barriers at 25kmph. That should shut down the motorways. If riders committed to turn up in solid groups on a regular basis how long will it take the government to listen to our concerns.

Our goal should be an immediate holt and then either making the current death traps safe or ripping them out.

If this was another more vocal country I would think the things would have been mowed down long ago.

To all the folks that have tried so far. Thank you and I'm sorry I haven't given the thing it's dues.

Apathy rules. Sadly.

[MSTRS]

Apathy rules. Sadly.

There it is in a nutshell.
We in HB are not exposed to WRB (yet) so can do nothing but send scathing emails.
If bikers en masse in the areas that have this shit were to do as you suggest (and it's been mooted many times) then we'd see a shift in policy.
It's not exactly difficult to work out.
So what is stopping 'you' lot?
APATHY.