Apostrophe use and capitals.

[Skyryder]

So you are doing some writing and want to start the sentence where an apostrophe is used in place of the letter.


‘bout ……….for about

In this example it is the spoken word and is the start of a sentence where capitals are used. So which is correct for

“About time you cut the firewood



“’Bout time you cut the firewood.” or
“’bout time you cut the firewood.”


I can not find any examples in my English usage books nor can I find any exemptions where an apostrophe can not be used in front of the word such as I have given.

I hold the view that the second version is the correct one not only on the basis that it looks better but as it is an incomplete word by the use of the apostrophe for the missing letter that would in normal usage require a capitol.

Anyone know different on this


Skyryder

[ManDownUnder]

Hitchers the one that know's about apostrophie's. Id wait for im'!

[ManDownUnder]

See here for a fine example of this exact situation

http://www.jabberwocky.com/carroll/jabber/jabberwocky.html

`Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.

[Skyryder]

See here for a fine example of this exact situation

http://www.jabberwocky.com/carroll/jabber/jabberwocky.html

`Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.


Seems right but god knows what the rest means.



Skyryder

[Swoop]

Id wait for im'!

Sureley "I'd wait for 'im"...

[Hitcher]

Fortunately the situation as outlined doesn't occur that often!

It is generally regarded as bad form to start any piece of writing with quotated speech. Journalism particularly frowns on that practice. That doesn't mean that doing so is "wrong", rather that there are generally better ways of leading a reader into a particular story.

Personally, if I had to start a paragraph with a contraction that needed to be contained in quotes, I would dispense with the apostrophe.

And an ellipsis (the punctuation mark) only has three dots...

[MSTRS]

Sureley "I'd wait for 'im"...

Surely he is :bleh:

In answer to the original question...one always starts a sentence with a capital. The apostrophe replaces (in this case) the first letter of the first word, so the next letter in line becomes the first letter by default and therefore needs to be capitalised. The apostrophe is not a letter so doesn't count as such for this exercise.

[ManDownUnder]

Hitchers the one that know's about apostrophie's. Id wait for im'!


Sureley "I'd wait for 'im"...

To paraphrase Meatloaf "...2 out of 5 ain't bad..."

[MSTRS]

'Ere 'Itcher, wha' you on abart?

[Swoop]

To paraphrase Meatloaf "...2 out of 5 ain't bad..."
There you have it folks. Evidence that males should not even try to multi-task...
Especially today.:whistle::crazy:

[Big Dave]

"'E's proposing 'self expression', by the book?" intoned Big Dave incredulously for comedic effect.

[Skyryder]

Surely he is :bleh:

In answer to the original question...one always starts a sentence with a capital. The apostrophe replaces (in this case) the first letter of the first word, so the next letter in line becomes the first letter by default and therefore needs to be capitalised. The apostrophe is not a letter so doesn't count as such for this exercise.

‘Ppreaciate that. Just don’t look right though.:angry2:


Skyryder

[Skyryder]

"'E's proposing 'self expression', by the book?" intoned Big Dave incredulously for comedic effect.

Clever word play.:jerry:

[klingon]

Well! Thanks for asking the question, Skyryder. And thanks for your carefully considered responses everyone. I had never even thought about this situation, and now I know the answer. :done:

[bungbung]

"'E's proposing 'self expression', by the book?" intoned Big Dave incredulously for comedic effect.

"Self expression" as practised by an owner-operator

[Beemer]

Fortunately the situation as outlined doesn't occur that often!

It is generally regarded as bad form to start any piece of writing with quotated speech. Journalism particularly frowns on that practice. That doesn't mean that doing so is "wrong", rather that there are generally better ways of leading a reader into a particular story.

Personally, if I had to start a paragraph with a contraction that needed to be contained in quotes, I would dispense with the apostrophe.

And an ellipsis (the punctuation mark) only has three dots...

I'd agree with Hitcher, and MSTRS makes some good points too. I've got several books on grammar and punctuation and although 'Common errors and problems in English' has an extensive section on apostrophes, it doesn't cover this at all.

Don't you just LOVE English? Well, I do - at least I love the hourly rate I get for correcting stuff other people get wrong!

[MSTRS]

‘Ppreaciate that. Just don’t look right though.:angry2:


Skyryder

Apart from the spelling, I would say that in the case of a word like 'appreciate' that one would drop one of the ps...thusly becoming --- 'Preciate.
Maybe.
'Itcher?

[Skyryder]

Apart from the spelling, I would say that in the case of a word like 'appreciate' that one would drop one of the ps...thusly becoming --- 'Preciate.
Maybe.
'Itcher?


So what you are saying is that ' should be replaced with " Sorry Just taking the piss or should it be pis' or even pi" :2guns::2guns:


Skyryder

[Hitcher]

'Itcher?

Those in the trade refer to apostrophes as a "poss" as a form of shorthand, often in regard to placement of said device e.g S poss or poss S.

[Big Dave]

"Self expression" as practised by an owner-operator

Pregnant...pause.

[gijoe1313]

'Ee by gum, it's all lordy lordy so naughty naughty wiv' this 'ere apoplectic perplexing 'postrophe 'perzackerly placementating!

I reckons oi think it's a rum 'ow d'ya do wiv'all this nowt, but nowt! As me wee mammy used to say :

"If'n ye hav'n ta t'ink about 'dis, then it's 'ferpectly clear that yer being high-falutin' and look'n down yer noose at 'uvvers!"

So guv'nor, no need for yer 'igh charley 'orse, 'cause it's all par fer d'course so's ta speak!

[Big Dave]

Ah - here's Long John Fooey.

[AllanB]

This thread is not dissimilar to my own concerns regarding the written language.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=88505

[gijoe1313]

Ah - here's Long John Fooey.

Secret Wok Cooking Wonderguy!
Long John Fooey,
More grammatical mistakes than an undergrad essay
Long John Fooey,
Numba 1 mispessling ghuy!
Long John Fooey,
Stubbed his toe on dictionary
Long John Fooey,
Trampling over English guide!
Hoo ha! Preposition error!
Ah so! Adverbial clause mistake!
Yang Bu! Idiom and syntax clash!
Long John Fooey,
Rucking your flied lice with creamofsumyunguy!

[ManDownUnder]

'Ere 'Itcher, wha' you on abart?Fark - that's a bit heavy isn't it?

That's up there with:
* Why?

[mstriumph]

....................

And an ellipsis (the punctuation mark) only has three dots...

you just CAN't leave it alone, can you? .... :bleh:

[mstriumph]

Well! Thanks for asking the question, Skyryder. And thanks for your carefully considered responses everyone. I had never even thought about this situation, and now I know the answer. :done:

if you ever win $1with-lots-of-noughts-following on some TV Quizz show or other by giving that as a correct answer, he'll expect a cut of your winnings!

[boomer]

Personally, if I had to start a paragraph with a contraction that needed to be contained in quotes, I would dispense with the apostrophe.


Was the 'I' not adequate in expressing your feelings? You needed to double up with 'Personally'...?

I, not personally, think that's poor form :p

[Ixion]

Yer a Geordie !

[boomer]

Yer a Geordie !


No i aint, i'm a yorkshireman :sunny:

[Tony W]

Hi guys. Just a quick question regarding apostrophes in plurals.

Is it 1980's or 1980s ?

BMW's or BMWs ?

[Big Dave]

Fooey never used a Malaprop,
but he was a syntax skewer.

Now it seems he cannot stop,
and coherent thoughts are fewer.

They better let him at the crop,
of new students even sooner.

Or mum'll have him down the shop
battering the Tuna.

[mstriumph]

Seems right but god knows what the rest means.



Skyryder

.... rather depends if you are Lewis Carrol [the author] or Humpty Dumpty [in his writing]

Carroll said that his poem literally translated as "It was evening, and the smooth active badgers were scratching and boring holes in the hill-side; all unhappy were the parrots; and the grave turtles squeaked out"

Humpty Dumpty, on the other hand, gave Alice the following interpretations:-

'Brillig' ..... four o' clock in the afternoon--the time when you begin broiling things for dinner."
'slithy' .... a combination of 'lithe' and 'slimy'
'toves' ... a cross between a badger, a lizard and a corkscrew [very fond of cheese, they are]
to 'gyre' is to emulate a gyroscope
to 'gimble' is to make holes like a gimlet


................ i have more if you'd like?..:lol:

[gijoe1313]

Fooey never used a Malaprop,
but he was a syntax skewer.

Now it seems he cannot stop,
and coherent thoughts are fewer.

They better let him at the crop,
of new students even sooner.

Or mum'll have him down the shop
battering the Tuna.

Quoth the Rider nevermore!
Riding in leathers, black and sleek

From pages of magazine his ideas peek,
His paid for riding, a burdensome chore -

Tall and handsome, visage terrible to behold
A paragon of riding, tales to be told

He appears here and there, elusive pimpernel,
Oh! The insight to steeds of riding he can tell!

Quoth the Rider nevermore!
And somewhere a keyboard goes a tap, tap, tapping ...

On GPS he locates his rides and does the mapping,
And for quotes and content he is not lacking,

Quoth the Rider nevermore -
Champion of riding, legend of folk and yore.

[Hitcher]

Hi guys. Just a quick question regarding apostrophes in plurals.

Is it 1980's or 1980s ?

BMW's or BMWs ?

1980s and BMWs, unless there is possession/ownership involved, e.g. 1980s' music or BMW's crap build quality.

And the space goes after punctuation, not before. Hyphens and slashes are not separated from the words either side by spacing, but dashes are.

[klingon]

Hi guys. Just a quick question regarding apostrophes in plurals.

Is it 1980's or 1980s ?

BMW's or BMWs ?

1980s
BMWs
Definitely. Unquestionably. Without a doubt.
There can be no debate on this subject because apostrophes are not optional.

By the way gijoe & Big Dave, you have me in complete hysterics here but I've run out of bling!

[Ripperjon]

1980s and BMWs, unless there is possession/ownership involved, e.g. 1980s' music or BMW's crap build quality.


or 1980's if you're referring to something belonging to / from the year 1980

[klingon]

...
Hyphens and slashes are not separated from the words either side by spacing, but dashes are.


to / from

:slap:

10 chars

[Daffyd]

1980s and BMWs, unless there is possession/ownership involved, e.g. 1980s' music or BMW's crap build quality.


Except for one word, "its". No apostrophe for the possessive, but it is used in place of the second "i" in "it is", hence, "It's cold out there." And "The cat licked its arse."

[klingon]

Except for one word, "its". No apostrophe for the possessive, but it is used in place of the second "i" in "it is", hence, "It's cold out there." And "The cat licked its arse."

troo, bro.

It can help to remember this if you think of the possessive as being part of a set:
His arse
Her arse
Its arse

None of them has an apostrophe. They all follow the same pattern.

love from
bdotgnza

[Ixion]

No i aint, i'm a yorkshireman :sunny:

Well, that's worse !. Pig ignorant AND ikey !

[Ripperjon]

:slap:

10 chars

Oops! You'd never guess i took English and Journalism at college!
Good job i never followed up on it, eh?

[Big Dave]

Fooey laid the challenge down
and who could then refuse it?

His style and command are 're-noun'
but I'm game enough to muse it.

I enjoyed that heroic sound,
and no attempt t' refute it.

But let him think he owns the town,
in whatever tense is mooted.

Then when his guard come slightly down,
I'll 'adjective' him to bruises.

Aspersions wildly cast and thrown,
Ennui and questionable uses.

See this simple meter is just a pwn,
and is good enough for gooses.

But if you think the seeds are sewn,
for ongoing abuses,

know it's only just a clown,
and trust that it amuses.