Serious question. Has anyone ever died from a bucket crash?

[Ixion]

Seriously.

As I grow older, I find myself having to confront the question of retirement. That is , of having an extra 80 hours a week or so to fill in. And what to do with that time (I was supposed to retire two years ago, I managed to avoid that, but I don't suppose I can avoid it forever)


Mrs Ixion has vetoed my first response , of settling down at the pub for 80 hours a week

So, my next suggestion was "I'll get a bucket and go racing". Met with "You are an old fool but I prefer you a live old fool, you will die if you try to race anything"

So, has anyone ever died , or been seriously, permanently, injured bucket racing in NZ?

My perception is that it is a pastime of many spills, many minor "Oh shit Oh ouch" injuries, but never naything really serious.

Am I right? Or deluded?

[naphazoline]

What's the sort of top speeds of this class of racing?
I'd imagine that might have some sort of bearing on the severity of possible injuries.

[AllanB]

I recommend getting one of those seriously big buckets. You know the ones that the council use to plant really large movable trees in.

That way when you cut the leg and arm holes in them there will be plenty of extra room offering added protection in the event of a fall while running. Less chance of injury.

Bucket races - ha, hours of fun, and even better on a slope.

[riffer]

I've not heard of anyone dying from a bucket crash.

But if we ended up with senior bucket racing, the sport could go the same way as that heinously dangerous lawn bowls.

[Sully60]

What's the sort of top speeds of this class of racing?
I'd imagine that might have some sort of bearing on the severity of possible injuries.

Depends on the track and bike, Ruapuna and Puke, between 125-140 km/h (I suspect there are faster machines like the KV100 I rode this year that might touch 100mph geared and ridden correctly) most kart tracks 85-90 km/h if your lucky, carparks even slower.

You're also right about the injuires, but when there's no sudden stop velocity can be helpful, it's a trajectory thing. Sometimes a lowspeed highside results in a high energy crunch.

To answer Ixion, none in my realtively short time racing, ask F5Dave or Speedpro,they've been racing buckets since the cretaceous period:shutup:

[Skunk]

I have never heard of anyone dying... I've talked to a few of the 'near original bucketeers' and none have mentioned more than mild broken bones.

Speedpro and F5 Dave or Pickle would have a good idea.

[Buckets4Me]

do what most the old guys do and tinker constantly with the bike
that will fill 90 hours a week
then when you go and race it you have an excuse as to why you didn't win
I havent finished it yet
or that didn't work I'll have to go back and ask more questions
but remeber it's a sport where you never stop working on the bike
even if it is only to get it going at the track
:scooter:
it just right for a retired guy and you don't have to fall off :innocent:

[speedpro]

The very rare fire, broken bones if you wallop something hard enough, bruises, twisted knees,ankles,shoulders ,etc, the odd bump on the head. That's about it. If you have a bit of time to laze around the next week it's all good. Really good gear is a big help. Not falling off is even better.

[Usarka]

If you fell off you could kick the bucket.

[rainman]

I was supposed to retire two years ago, I managed to avoid that, but I don't suppose I can avoid it forever


I'm confused. Is this according to some early retirement plan or are you an old bugger cunningly disguised as, well, a not so old bugger?

[TZ350]

Seriously.

As I grow older, I find myself having to confront the question of retirement. That is , of having an extra 80 hours a week or so to fill in. And what to do with that time (I was supposed to retire two years ago, I managed to avoid that, but I don't suppose I can avoid it forever)


Mrs Ixion has vetoed my first response , of settling down at the pub for 80 hours a week

So, my next suggestion was "I'll get a bucket and go racing". Met with "You are an old fool but I prefer you a live old fool, you will die if you try to race anything"

So, has anyone ever died , or been seriously, permanently, injured bucket racing in NZ?

My perception is that it is a pastime of many spills, many minor "Oh shit Oh ouch" injuries, but never naything really serious.

Am I right? Or deluded?



Mt Wellington max 90K's more or less. Many offs very few injuries.

What track would you be racing at????

I am an old fart, not hurt myself yet, don't expect too either.

[Gremlin]

Pass on the death question, I think the main issue for you will be recovering from any offs. When ya yung 'n dum, you bounce. When ya old and haffs a zimmerframe, you go splat instead.

[Ixion]

Bugger that. I am fat. I go boing-boing. Also, my modus operandi is not to fall off. And I is an irritating old bugger cunningly disguised as an obnoxious old bugger.

[gijoe1313]

Ahh so life's rich tapestry has deigned to give you part of it to weave now? I recall seeing you on the pavement parked good and proper like, answering the celly (modern day humbug nonsense!)

Even had time to wave back to me after a melodiously tootle of mein Hornet horn.

I dare say you are still in the prime of your motorcycling career, this new adventure and undertaking of yours I shall gleefully follow. After all, it's all just a bit o'harmless fun innit? :innocent:

Your missus knows you well, I would add that she still doesn't know what she's in for! :sweatdrop

Ride on you rough diamond, keep blazing a trail for us young'uns to follow!

[Kickaha]

So, has anyone ever died , or been seriously, permanently, injured bucket racing in NZ?

My perception is that it is a pastime of many spills, many minor "Oh shit Oh ouch" injuries, but never naything really serious.

Am I right? Or deluded?

In the 10 years+ I've been both racing and on the fringes of Bucket racing down here , I broke both a wrist and an ankle in seperate seasons, and there were two broken collar bones and a major concussion that I can remember

There would probably be at least one or two "off" at every meeting but that is no worse than any other race class I have observed or participated in

[Taz]

In the 10 years+ I've been both racing and on the fringes of Bucket racing down here , I broke both a wrist and an ankle in seperate seasons, and there were two broken collar bones and a major concussion that I can remember

There would probably be at least one or two "off" at every meeting but that is no worse than any other race class I have observed or participated in

You have one or two offs at every race meeting?? Isn't that a bit excessive?

[Buckets4Me]

You have one or two offs at every race meeting?? Isn't that a bit excessive?

some people just try to hard :jerry: :doh:

not everyone has to win all the time but some try there best and normaly on very basic bikes (they also do quite well for it )

thats why you can learn fast in buckets

but you dont have to try to beat Rossie everytime
and you dont have to fall off every time either

you are more likely to die driving to the track or riding home after a meating

[Madness]

mild broken bones.

As opposed to...


I broke both a wrist and an ankle

Hot & spicy ones??

[TZ350]

You have one or two offs at every race meeting?? Isn't that a bit excessive?
.

I don,t have an off every meeting, more like cluster fucks, several off's at a time, then nothing for a while. But they average out to be one a meeting.

.

[Kickaha]

You have one or two offs at every race meeting?? Isn't that a bit excessive?

Not me personally, but out of a class of 30-40+ bikes, and when I say offs I am also talking off track excursions that don't always end in a crash


As opposed to...



Hot & spicy ones??

I finished the race I broke my wrist in 3rd and did the other 2 races, had to walk back with the fractured ankle though but still did another couple of races

[SHELRACING]

Granma here.
Dont worry about your age or size mate. We have all shapes and sizes at buckets and all ages too! We all ride at various levels, hence in Auckland the B Grade is for learner riders and us oldies.
The old man has had plenty of crashes and off's riding buckets. Some of his crashes have been a little more serious than others, but none that required an ambulance.

Usually it's a bit of an embarassing, ungainly slide across the track that gets you plenty of recognition from fellow riders.(especially in the wet.)

As has been said before, good gear helps eliminate some of the scratches and bruises.

I dont ride fast, so haven't fallen off my bucket yet.(touch wood) I did have a crash a few months ago and broke my collar bone and a bit of a brain shake. It wasn't on a bucket though. I was on a 50cc pocketbike. :woohoo: Doing maybe 25kph.
I still just love the bucket racing and am trying to push myself a little bit more each time I go out on the track.

[Number One]

I've just about killed myself laughing while crashing on the bucket.

Crashed the sled and the RG50 - don't even worry about doing it now - I think I have discovered the limit of the traction and find it doesn't actually hurt too much when you do come off.

My worst bucket injury was not as bad as some of the injuries I sustained whilst playing goalie in A grade hockey so I figure it's not that bad and love it.

[nudemetalz]

Well when I crashed and got run over by another bucket a while ago, I got a serious thump to the head making me pass out for a couple of seconds.
That's probably the biggest off I've had in bucketing.

[Skunk]

Three or four years without an off so far... I'm 'middle-aged' and slow, but I still love it (most of the time).

[Kickaha]

Three or four years without an off so far... (most of the time).

We'll fix that for you at the next BOB, no no that's ok you don't need to thank me:rolleyes:

[Rick 52]

When your time is up its time to go.
You drive a car most days Thats as bad as most things we do .
Go have fun Buckets are great

[Buckets4Me]

:Oi::Pokey:

I find touch rugby harder on me than Bucket racing

[F5 Dave]

I think the best thing is take the missus along to a meeting at mt wgtn so she can see for herself. You won’t be the oldest chap there. In wgtn/Palmy (although he hasn’t been to the last few meetings) Glen was happy to report he was racing on his 70th. Top effort & reasonably fast, hope I am still racing then.

[James Deuce]

I nearly died, but that was my wife hitting me with the toolbox after I fell off in front of her.

[Str8 Jacket]

Ive only crashed a bucket once. It was at Ruapuna and I cracked a rib and smashed up my foot, wasnt all that dramatic/bad at all actually. My brand new helmet survived unscathed....

[Buckets4Me]

I nearly died, but that was my wife hitting me with the toolbox after I fell off in front of her.

I think the wife is the most dangerus part of buckets
you spent WHAT!!!! on the SH*T BOX !!! I could have got a new pair of shoes
or my nails done now back to work so I can have my hair colored and foiled

:jerry:

NO YOU CANT BUY A NEW ONE. I DONT CARE IF IT'S FASTER OR YOUR MATES ARE LAUGHING AT YOU !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
can I have a go I wont brake it or beat you

[Rashika]

Only one off in my huge bucket career... slid for about 25metres, few bruises and badly wounded pride but body intact. Bike slightly less so, but not too much to fix it, (the other advantage of racing buckets, generally they are cheap to fix).
I 2nd Kickaha's comments: worst i have seen was the major concussion he mentioned and some offs that resulted in a broken bone or 2.

I say go for it, you are never too old to start... tho maybe you are Ixion? :whistle: ;)

Our 2 oldest guys are in their 70's

[GaZBur]

...I say go for it, you are never too old to start... tho maybe you are Ixion? :whistle: ;)

Our 2 oldest guys are in their 70's

There are guys in thier 60's and 70's who race classics and postclassics and they are not slow. There are plently of people who are close to my age(50) racing Motards and we expect crashes more often than most. I can see two HUGE advantages to buckets. Maximum velocity won't be too high. The bikes are light so having yours or someone elses land on you is not so serious.
Expect it to take 2 weeks for a bruise to come out instead of the few days it took when you were younger.
The harder you try to go fast quickly = the more bins you have, so start off less aggressive and build up slowly rather than test the limits straight away. I did and got injured twice. The saying older is wiser is crap! The red mist comes over as soon as there is someone in front of you you think you can pass.
Just go for it.

[Mr. Peanut]

Bugger that. I am fat. I go boing-boing. Also, my modus operandi is not to fall off. And I is an irritating old bugger cunningly disguised as an obnoxious old bugger.

Life imitating art?

[Ixion]

Yeah. That's it. See, it's even the same bike as in my avatar.

But winning, or even going fast is not going to be relevant. I don't do fast. The point of the exercise is to have a valid reason not to be able to attend to Mrs Ixion's little List of Things That Need Doing Around the House.

[SHELRACING]

The point of the exercise is to have a valid reason not to be able to attend to Mrs Ixion's little List of Things That Need Doing Around the House.[/QUOTE]

Granma here.

Ahhhhhh! now you sound like 90% of the bucket racers at Mt Welly.
I've got a feeling someone told me a short time ago that there misses had been waiting 14yrs for her new kitchen. Kitchen had always come second to racing. So poor man had to give up labour weekend's awesome racing for the kitchen. :sick:

[TZ350]

I say go for it, you are never too old to start... tho maybe you are Ixion? :whistle: ;)

Our 2 oldest guys are in their 70's

Riders in their 70's, that's great, I was starting to feel alone, now I know there's a future in bucket racing. :wari:

[Buckets4Me]

Riders in their 70's, that's great, I was starting to feel alone, now I know there's a future in bucket racing. :wari:

ye but they are in post classic racing old TZ350's :innocent:

[Rashika]

ye but they are in post classic racing old TZ350's :innocent:

they do that as well :Punk: but they still race buckets cos its the premier class! :innocent:

...and they say it doesn't hurt so much when they fall off

[SHELRACING]

Granma here.

The old man has had plenty of crashes and off's riding buckets. Some of his crashes have been a little more serious than others, but none that required an ambulance.

Hey Granma that's not true. I've had plenty of Ambulance rides. Usually the day after when you insist I go to the hospital. No go fast rides with the flashy lights and sirens tho! :banana:

[gav]

Probably have more chance of having a heart attack mowing the lawns than a serious injury from bucket racing.

[Bren_chch]

Probably have more chance of having a heart attack mowing the lawns than a serious injury from bucket racing.

Oh Gav!!! <_<

[Ixion]

Probably have more chance of having a heart attack mowing the lawns than a serious injury from bucket racing.

Sharrup. That's the excuse I use to Mrs Ixion for why I can't mow the lawns.

[piston broke]

hey ixion,
i get my bucket tomorow,
just get one.
see you at mt welli for the first race of the new year,eh?

[Ixion]

Get one? can you get them ready made? I thought you had to build them? Well, there goes half the fun.

[piston broke]

seems you gotta make them,
see my pic,drum brakes,wtf.;)

[Ixion]

I have always considered brakes of any sort an over emphasised indulgence.

[piston broke]

I have always considered brakes of any sort an over emphasised indulgence.

yep,true, thats what gears are for.
so will i be racing with you soon?

[Ixion]

Well, soon is a variable phrase. But i have my eye on Tardme for materials. And I've read the rule book. Highly biased against two strokes I must say.

However I am also starting up the Society for the Abolition of that Vile Abomination the Carburettor. The rule about maximum carburettor sizes on two smokers effectively prohibits twin cylinders (and thus goody machines like the GT125) . But it doesn't mention fuel injection!



yep,true, thats what gears are for.


On a two stroke?

[piston broke]

On a two stroke?[/QUOTE]

dunno,the only 2 stroke i've owned is a 2 horse yami outboard:woohoo:
that slows the dingy when i let the throttle go:wacko:

[Paul in NZ]

I've seen a few people die of embarassment on buckets - does that help?

[speedpro]

And I've read the rule book. Highly biased against two strokes I must say.

Buckets imitate life. Yes I know 4-strokes came 1st & 2nd at the recent GP but a well built 2-stroke that keeps running will still run rings round a 4-stroke. It just wasn't to be this weekend.

[speedpro]

However I am also starting up the Society for the Abolition of that Vile Abomination the Carburettor. The rule about maximum carburettor sizes on two smokers effectively prohibits twin cylinders (and thus goody machines like the GT125) . But it doesn't mention fuel injection!



On a two stroke?

You aren't thinking with the devious mind of a bucket racer are you? The beauty of a GT125 is that only one little 62.5cc cylinder is on intake at a time. Therefore the 24mm maximum rule actually allows a pretty good size carb, for a 62.5cc cylinder. It's been done as well and went OK considering the little development that had been done. The builder used copper plumbing fittings with the carb feeding a T piece and a 90deg bend to each cylinder.
The other way to take advantage of the small cylinders is to water cool it, modify the hell out of it with say dual moto-x ignitions, fit any size carbs you like, reed valves, pipes, etc etc, and rev the hell out of it. That's been done as well.
The real issue for the GT is the gearbox ratios. Depending on how serious you want to get you will find that nearly every bucket legal engine has some sort of limitation - clutch, gears, cylinder, 4-stroke. The list of impediments to serious performance goes on and on.

[Ixion]

I did think about a manifold. The problem is that a manifold on a twin twostroke meake sthe inlet tract very long, which hinders revvability. Reed valves would help, but aircooled 125cc two stroke stwins with reed valves are not all that common. One must consider the raw material available.

So , maybe, back to a 125cc single. has anyone ever raced a BSA Bantam in buckets? They'd qualify. Also although motox bikes are prohibited , what about true dual purpose? Like the old Dt125? They could be made to go like stink with a bit of work

[gav]

Or a DT100, no carb restriction then, the 125 would still need to run a 24mm carb.

[FROSTY]

Ixion. To answer your question YES you could conceivably be killed racing buckets.
In the same way as you could be killed crossing the road or stepping out of a shower onbto a slippery floor. There is no way to say No it couldn't happen.
But your chances are fairly slim.
I have seen a nasty broken collar bone. I've cracked my neck from getting a bitch slap by another bike at the fastest point on Mt wellington.
Ive seen a few concussions and had busted ribs from a bike sliding down the track into me.
I've not heard of any serious injuries
And a couple of suggestions for ya 1-shineray 150 and the TF125 --both would make an interesting base bke to start with

[speedpro]

I did think about a manifold. The problem is that a manifold on a twin twostroke meake sthe inlet tract very long, which hinders revvability. Reed valves would help, but aircooled 125cc two stroke stwins with reed valves are not all that common. One must consider the raw material available.

So , maybe, back to a 125cc single. has anyone ever raced a BSA Bantam in buckets? They'd qualify. Also although motox bikes are prohibited , what about true dual purpose? Like the old Dt125? They could be made to go like stink with a bit of work

Again, you aren't thinking like a bucket racer/builder. You add reed valves to the motor. Bit of time with a hacksaw, files, maybe a bit of welding/brazing, more filing and welding and "hey presto", one reed valve bike. I've built a full crankcase reed TS125 with a sleeved down watercooled RGV250 cylinder. It just depends how much time you have to spend on it. If you do go this route you better be prepared to be bitterly disappointed with the end result. As for intake length and revvability, there is often a differance between theory and practical and a very nice compromise can often be reached. Some sort of resonant chamber joining the two intake sides or such might negate undesirable effects to be workable.

There's plenty of DT125s running. The DT100 was a popular bike a while ago. I'm not sure but I think there was a bit of an issue with the gearbox ratios. The BSA will have serious gearbox ratio issues as I think they were 3-speed weren't they?? Best to stay from old-tech for lots of reasons.

[Buckets4Me]

you forgot the mighty GP125 the fist 2 stroke to hold together and finish 3rd in the gp ridden by an old guy with limited talent didn't get his knea down or nothing

and I didn't see any 4 strokes on the podem of the f5 thow one finished 4th or 5th

[saxet]

you forgot the mighty GP125 the fist 2 stroke to hold together and finish 3rd in the gp ridden by an old guy with limited talent didn't get his knea down or nothing

4th in the GP was also a Gp125 that held together, ridden by someone slightly younger but fitting the same description. It also was 3rd in F4 class for the weekend, I suspect by a small margin from 4th.

[TZ350]

you forgot the mighty GP125 the fist 2 stroke to hold together and finish 3rd in the gp ridden by an old guy with limited talent didn't get his knea down or nothing

4th in the GP was also a Gp125 that held together, ridden by someone slightly younger but fitting the same description. It also was 3rd in F4 class for the weekend, I suspect by a small margin from 4th.

That makes it two top placing GP125's, a GP125 from Auck., 3rd and from Welly., 4th in the GP and the same bikes but 3rd Welly., and 4th Auck., in F4.

There was a very tidy looking unit from Wellington. It had quite a deep exhaust note, I would love to know what mods had been done.

There were four other GP125's that I know off, all of them heading off their share of FXR's.

[bucketracer]

you forgot the mighty GP125 the fist 2 stroke to hold together and finish 3rd in the gp ridden by an old guy with limited talent didn't get his knea down or nothing

Are you saying that some dodgy old bugger with arthritis, a gammy leg who can't ride, needs glasses, falls asleep between races, needs a push start and help getting off his bike after a race was keeping two fast factory 4 strokes ridden by current class champions and ex., works riders honest because of the superior qualities of a well tuned Suzuki GP125.

[Skunk Control]

I think the wife is the most dangerus part of buckets
you spent WHAT!!!! on the SH*T BOX !!! I could have got a new pair of shoes
or my nails done now back to work so I can have my hair colored and foiled

:jerry:

NO YOU CANT BUY A NEW ONE. I DONT CARE IF IT'S FASTER OR YOUR MATES ARE LAUGHING AT YOU !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
can I have a go I wont brake it or beat you

:laugh: Nah it's not the wife that's the dangerous part, if it is you are :buggerd:

I love my free time and space when Skunk is racing and building buckets :yeah: And the other bonus there is no where near the arguments over who spent what, anymore.

[Skunk Control]

Buckets are great, it gives Skunk the time he loves playing/building/tinkering in the shed, and if I can get that set-up properply he won't even make a mess in my house either :lol:

It's sooo important for everyone to have something they enjoy doing or that they are passionate about, and for me I get so much more than just the motorsport photography side of it :yes:

[Slingshot]

Depending on how serious you want to get you will find that nearly every bucket legal engine has some sort of limitation - clutch, gears, cylinder, 4-stroke. The list of impediments to serious performance goes on and on.


Brilliant!!!

[skidMark]

They make 149cc 4 stroke BMW's ixion? :done:

[Ixion]

They have made 250s, And I have already verified that it is permissable to sleeve down an oversize engine.

[craisin]

well Im going to be 60 this year and i was thinking of going Bucket racing getting a younger smaller person to ride said bucket :niceone:I built a C-grade saloon car in the mid nineties using a younger driver. We did very well but it was better to do all the yelling at the driver before we got to the track:niceone::devil2:

[Ixion]

Oh. Why allow a smaller younger person to have the fun of riding the brute. I certainly shall not do that. Good heavens, man , you are only 60, and I can hardly imagine you can be fatter than me.

[Skunk]

You should ride it yourself!
Did you see how OLD the GP winners and place-getters were? Man, they was all old and crinkly. :lol:

[xwhatsit]

Hey Ix, if you want to go fuel injection, I've been thinking for a long time that a fun microcontroller project would be to write an ECU/injection setup. Some of the 8-bit AVRs would have enough grunt. Feed an ignition sensor into it and you could have all sorts of fun and no restrictions.

FTDI232 on there and you could plug your laptop in and play with the map between races. It's been a while since I played with RISC assembler :D

[Ixion]

You should ride it yourself!
Did you see how OLD the GP winners and place-getters were? Man, they was all old and crinkly. :lol:

Oh. Is crinkly a pre-requisite. That's bad, I ain't crinkly.

[Skunk]

Oh. Is crinkly a pre-requisite. That's bad, I ain't crinkly.
I'm pre-crinkly myself. There are no restrictions on fun.

[Ixion]

Hey Ix, if you want to go fuel injection, I've been thinking for a long time that a fun microcontroller project would be to write an ECU/injection setup. Some of the 8-bit AVRs would have enough grunt. Feed an ignition sensor into it and you could have all sorts of fun and no restrictions.

That's a VERY good idea . You will go far. But can you do it with a two stroke? I have never seen a conventional FI setup on a smoker? If you could it would get round that bloody carb restriction rule. A throttle body is not a carb. Right?

But FI usually needs a lot of other sensors beside ignition. Air flow, air temperature etc etc. Some of course are luxuries , for cold runing and such. But are all dispensable? Of course, they could probably be retrofitted.

Hm. Mr Skidmark might not be so far off the mark with his talk of BMWs. They would have injectors of a sensible size (250cc cylinder, maybe not too far out for racing). And wrecked K100s are now fairly common.

This thing is starting to get out of hand. But I will be keeping an eye on Trademe and T&E.

[xwhatsit]

But FI usually needs a lot of other sensors beside ignition. Air flow, air temperature etc etc. Some of course are luxuries , for cold runing and such. But are all dispensable? Of course, they could probably be retrofitted.
I read a bunch of crap on a website (MicroSquirt or something sounding like that -- open source FI project, mostly used on cars it would seem). A whole lot of sensors, a good chunk of them optional, who knows. You could simply build a glorified electronic carburettor relatively simply with little extra cruft -- a simple `rule bender' device.

Well, we all know how that Bimota turned out... they put carbs on it in the end, didn't they?

[Skunk]

That's a VERY good idea . You will go far. But can you do it with a two stroke? I have never seen a conventional FI setup on a smoker? If you could it would get round that bloody carb restriction rule. A throttle body is not a carb. Right?

But FI usually needs a lot of other sensors beside ignition. Air flow, air temperature etc etc. Some of course are luxuries , for cold runing and such. But are all dispensable? Of course, they could probably be retrofitted.
Two smokers rely on a 'signal pressure wave' from the pipe for best effect. How would that work with EFI? It would just be a matter of working it all out. It's not like any major bike manufacturer has gone broke trying (Bimota) :lol:

We Kiwis will do it for next to nothing and show them all! Mwhaahaha

[Skunk]

Well, we all know how that Bimota turned out... they put carbs on it in the end, didn't they?
Some - you can buy them with the EFI. To run well they need carbs... V-due (http://www.vdue.it/eng/intro.htm). You know their problem - two pistons. We shall do a single - KISS!

[Ixion]

I think the pressure wave thing might be overstated. After all, power valve systems work around it (or over it really). One might even be able to tap off the PV controller electrics (assuming there is a PV) Otherwise a PV controller box might be a useful start. I have a couple of spares.

And yes, BiMota bent bankrupt trying. But were they not Eytalian? An Eytalian company trying to make something electrical work is obviously on a hiding to nothing, they can't even make headlights work

Whereas Kiwis are very good at electrical things, look at electric fences.

[Skunk]

The pressure wave creates a good draw though the carb at the right time (that's my understanding). PVs change the port timings to broaden the power band.

[Ixion]

PV doesnt change the port timing, it changes the port cross sectional area. Like having skinny pipes on at low revs and fat ones at high revs. I gues sit maybe changes the timing a bit too, cos of the restriction. But mainly its the pipe effective diameter. That's fine though the FI controller just needs to know about that so it gives a bigger squirt as the PV opens.

What the pressure wave mainly does is to block the exhaust port so the charge coming up the transfer ports doesn't bugger straight off out the zorst. (A lot of it does anyway of course, why two smokers have such shit fuel consumption). Thing with a smoker is to just have a dirty big carb and inlet oriface , and either a rotary or reed avlve to stop if all being shot backwards. The effective equivalent of the 4 stroke inlet area is in the transfers. Which is why the poxy carb restriction is such a hassle. I want half an hour alone with the person who invented that rule. Obviously a smokophobic.

[Sully60]

PV doesnt change the port timing, it changes the port cross sectional area.
You're obviously unfamiliar with the Suzuki system then.




I want half an hour alone with the person who invented that rule. Obviously a smokophobic.

Ride this bike (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/picture.php?albumid=1297&pictureid=12800) back to back with a fast FXR first. It may temper your aggression or spit you off and leave you wanting something a little more sedate.

[k14]

That's a VERY good idea . You will go far. But can you do it with a two stroke? I have never seen a conventional FI setup on a smoker? If you could it would get round that bloody carb restriction rule. A throttle body is not a carb. Right?

But FI usually needs a lot of other sensors beside ignition. Air flow, air temperature etc etc. Some of course are luxuries , for cold runing and such. But are all dispensable? Of course, they could probably be retrofitted.

Hm. Mr Skidmark might not be so far off the mark with his talk of BMWs. They would have injectors of a sensible size (250cc cylinder, maybe not too far out for racing). And wrecked K100s are now fairly common.

This thing is starting to get out of hand. But I will be keeping an eye on Trademe and T&E.
Why not use a injector off a 600?? Rated for a quarter of 120hp, so probably able to do 50hp by itself.

I always thought that having to run the fuel pump would take too much power to make it a feesible idea on such a bike.

FYI, KTM in their 125's (and last year in 250's) had a hybrid fuel injection and carb setup. Great for fuel efficiency and also give a tiny bit more mid range in 0-25% throttle openings. So many sensors though, good luck trying to sort something like that.

[Yow Ling]

PV doesnt change the port timing, it changes the port cross sectional area. Like having skinny pipes on at low revs and fat ones at high revs. I gues sit maybe changes the timing a bit too, cos of the restriction. But mainly its the pipe effective diameter. That's fine though the FI controller just needs to know about that so it gives a bigger squirt as the PV opens.




That is so wrong. The powervalve system (YPVS) is a spool that raises or lowers the height of the exhaust port. It changes the port timing which affects the rpm that max power is made. some powervalve type systems open auxilary exhaust ports either side of the main exhaust and this does the crosssectional are thing (more torque at same rpm) Suzuki and Honda use a chamber which is used to kill the misstimed pressurewave at low rpm.

Fuel injection wont get around the "Carburetor equivelent rule" all it will do is make your bike more complicated you will still be restricted to 24mm hole on 125s , the only way around the rule is run a 100cc engine or a 4 stroke

[F5 Dave]

PV doesnt change the port timing, it changes the port cross sectional area. Like having skinny pipes on at low revs and fat ones at high revs. I gues sit maybe changes the timing a bit too, cos of the restriction. But mainly its the pipe effective diameter. That's fine though the FI controller just needs to know about that so it gives a bigger squirt as the PV opens.

What the pressure wave mainly does is to block the exhaust port so the charge coming up the transfer ports doesn't bugger straight off out the zorst. (A lot of it does anyway of course, why two smokers have such shit fuel consumption). Thing with a smoker is to just have a dirty big carb and inlet oriface , and either a rotary or reed avlve to stop if all being shot backwards. The effective equivalent of the 4 stroke inlet area is in the transfers. Which is why the poxy carb restriction is such a hassle. I want half an hour alone with the person who invented that rule. Obviously a smokophobic.
As said [edit; took me so long to write this Yowling has come on, PS welcome Stanko] most powervalve systems do alter the port timing, quite substantially as well. The old Yamaha system changes the port timing a good 10 degrees or more, & most modern guillotine jobbies do the same. There were a few early attempts by Suzuki/Honda/Kawasaki to open a chamber rather than adjust the port timing (& area of course) but these were quickly modified to emulate the Yamaha system whilst trying not to copy it too closely.

That Kawasaki I am sitting on in Sully’s link has a barrel that was derived from an earlier Suzuki with the non port altering pv. It is actually blocked off, but no matter it will eat & spit out 4 strokes with reckless abandon, & occasionally the rider.

To understand what they were trying to achieve one needs to consider the 2 stroke engine dynamically. [very simplified]; The wave leaving the opening exhaust port travels to the start of the diffuser section of the pipe & returns as a negative pulse (remember wave physics at school) scavenging the engine & assuming the correct frequency for the pipe lengths will even suck some fresh charge out of the engine into the header, - just as the original wave has continued & bounced back off the baffle section of the pipe as a positive wave to stuff it all back into the engine, - just before the port closes.

Of course the word ‘assuming’ meant you were operating at the right engine revs for this to time out well. If at lower revs for example these waves could be quite counter productive. The idea was that if you open up a chamber at the header it would cause a disruption to these waves & then close the chamber when these waves were desirable.

Have a look in a 90s KX250 or similar, both the exhaust port is raised & lowered & conversely a chamber is opened or closed off, but also sub exhaust ports are exposed to alter area as well. These 2 sets of sub ports are at staggered heights as well. Very trick. But not likely to be working after the first owner.


Sheesh this thread has moved on from its original position. My advice is just buy something & go have a go. Many a bucket project has been still-borne with all sorts of lofty ideas sprung from pub talk. Best get something up & running. Then you can alter things bit by bit.

[Skunk]

My advice is just buy something & go have a go. Many a bucket project has been still-borne with all sorts of lofty ideas sprung from pub talk. Best get something up & running. Then you can alter things bit by bit.Very good advice too. :yes:

[TZ350]

You should ride it yourself!
Did you see how OLD the GP winners and place-getters were? Man, they was all old and crinkly. :lol:

At the Trophy awards for the bucket gp someone had the wit to call out "See, Bucket Racing is the Youth Sport of New Zealand" when they saw the wrinkly old basterd who came third.

Disrespectfull young F****ks.....:whocares:.it's Buckets...:p

and the people are great fun :lol:
.

[gav]

So if you can modify a GSXR600 to run as a 3 cylinder 450, how about running on 1 cylinder as a 150? Be good for 25-30hp?

[Rick 52]

You should ride it yourself!
Did you see how OLD the GP winners and place-getters were? Man, they was all old and crinkly. :lol:

You cheeky bugger why how old are you LOL!
I'm only 38 but mentally I'm still 21 I hope I'm still on a bucket when I reach 70

[piston broke]

So if you can modify a GSXR600 to run as a 3 cylinder 450, how about running on 1 cylinder as a 150? Be good for 25-30hp?

?with a switch that turns on the other 3 pots for the straights.:woohoo:

[Kickaha]

Why not use a injector off a 600?? Rated for a quarter of 120hp, so probably able to do 50hp by itself.

I always thought that having to run the fuel pump would take too much power to make it a feesible idea on such a bike.


Someone is already looking at doing that


As said [edit; took me so long to write this Yowling has come on, PS welcome Stanko]

Two logins? ban him

[gav]

Two logins? ban him

:devil2: :whistle:

[koba]

I want half an hour alone with the person who invented that rule. Obviously a smokophobic.


Was that Bryce?
I think it was originally 125 fourstrokes.
If you don't want to be limited get a 100cc two stroke.
I think they rules are about right really, they work out quite even.