Busted on the Transit Lane

[s_devo]

I got snapped by the :Police: yesterday for using the transit lane getting onto the motorway north. The cop was friendly and a bit of a commedian and told me I needed to have a passenger to use the T2 lane and by the way, if I had, then he'd be giving me a different kind of ticket because I'm not allowed them either. Oh well, now I'm expecting a nice little $150 fine to warm me into the new year.

Does anyone have a link to the rules on this? I would have thought that the object of the transit lane would be to reduce traffic and that bikes would be an obvious way to forward this.:rolleyes:

[MSTRS]

http://www.northshorecity.govt.nz/transport_and_roads/Public-transport/Transit-lanes.htm
Ticket is bullshit...contest it.

[woza]

i have used the transit lanes that go onto the motorways, however I have noticed that there isn't a motorcycle image on the signs at gt north road onto the northwestern, and the one at penrose.

[Hiflyer]

That's crap, the cop will have jut been tryna fill his quota.

bikers get a bad image from people like that.
Maybe he was just jealous?

[Ixion]

Bullshit ticket. Contest it, and tell them that the cop needs to be sent back to school to learn his law. I'm assuming here that it was a T2 transit lane, since you mention that.

Motorcycles are entitled to use a transit lane (T2 or T3). No ifs buts or maybes. And it makes no difference if there is a motorbike symbol on the sign or not.

The law is

Motorcyclists are able to use Transit Lanes, and the key reference is found in the provisions of the Road Transport (Road User) Rule 2004 (designated as Rule 61001), which specifically provides at Clause 1.6 Interpretations: where it says "Transit Lane means a lane reserved for use of the following (unless specifically excluded by a sign at the start of the lane): (a) passenger service vehicles: (b) motor vehicles carrying not less than the number of persons (including the driver) specified on the sign: ... (d) motorcycles: ...."


What police district was it? BRONZ will write to them and ask them to remind all cops that we are allowed.

[BrianZ]

Bullshit ticket. Contest it, and tell them that the cop needs to be sent back to school to learn his law. I'm assuming here that it was a T2 transit lane, since you mention that.

Motorcycles are entitled to use a transit lane (T2 or T3). No ifs buts or maybes. And it makes no difference if there is a motorbike symbol on the sign or not.

The law is

Motorcyclists are able to use Transit Lanes, and the key reference is found in the provisions of the Road Transport (Road User) Rule 2004 (designated as Rule 61001), which specifically provides at Clause 1.6 Interpretations: where it says "Transit Lane means a lane reserved for use of the following (unless specifically excluded by a sign at the start of the lane): (a) passenger service vehicles: (b) motor vehicles carrying not less than the number of persons (including the driver) specified on the sign: ... (d) motorcycles: ...."


What police district was it? BRONZ will write to them and ask them to remind all cops that we are allowed.
"Transit lane" is a term pretty loosely used by many people - if it was a "Special Vehicle Lane" (and it would have to be signed as such) then it is a different matter !!

Special vehicle lane
means a lane defined by signs or markings and restricted to a specified class or classes of vehicle; and includes a bus lane, a transit lane, a cycle lane, and a light-rail vehicle lane

[MSTRS]

OP said it was marked T2...cycles, m/cycles, cars etc with2 or more occupants all OK.

[s_devo]

It was the one at Penrose going North-bound on to the Southern Motorway.

I know it certainly has a T2 and a icon for buses and trucks, but don't think it has a motorbike icon on it. I'll make sure I take a snap next time I'm passing.

Thanks for the advice everyone - it's really great to get the support.

[imne1]

http://www.northshorecity.govt.nz/transport_and_roads/Public-transport/Transit-lanes.htm
Ticket is bullshit...contest it.

...and from that page: "Transit lanes are policed by specially trained council officers who are clearly visible on the footpath observing vehicles to ensure that only people who have a right to use the lane are in it."

it's a city bylaw and therefore probably should NOT be enforced by officers of state but subcontracted council representatives.

[Gubb]

it's a city bylaw and therefore probably should NOT be enforced by officers of state but subcontracted council representatives.

Like a liquor ban? Don't see any council people enforcing that.

[Squiggles]

Contest it as Ixion said.

[Road Guardian]

The cop was friendly and a bit of a comedian

Yes they are real people like you and I. And yes, some of the time, they can be nice people too.

I don't know much about transit lanes, (we don't have them in the South Island, no such thing as grid lock, or traffic jam) but I would imagine that T2 means two or more occupants in one vehicle are required to be in that lane, kinda makes sense.

If not, correct me, again not really familiar with them.

[vtec]

Yes they are real people like you and I. And yes, some of the time, they can be nice people too.

I don't know much about transit lanes, (we don't have them in the South Island, no such thing as grid lock, or traffic jam) but I would imagine that T2 means two or more occupants in one vehicle are required to be in that lane, kinda makes sense.

If not, correct me, again not really familiar with them.

http://www.northshorecity.govt.nz/transport_and_roads/Public-transport/Transit-lanes.htm
Looks like you are right, the number refers to the number of people in the vehicle. But it does say that motorcycles are allowed to use it. Why do cops issue so many tickets that are undeserved. Surely it would have been common sense to the officer that motorcycles be allowed to use the lane, saves us lane splitting.

[klingon]

It was the one at Penrose going North-bound on to the Southern Motorway.

I know it certainly has a T2 and a icon for buses and trucks, but don't think it has a motorbike icon on it. I'll make sure I take a snap next time I'm passing.

Thanks for the advice everyone - it's really great to get the support.

Actually I see this as a really important issue. We have been repeatedly assured by Transit (who were in charge of the ramp signals system when they were designed and approved) that bikes will be able to use the Transit lanes to bypass the ramp signals. We need to make sure they (and the people enforcing the rules) are reminded of this each time they start to slip, or gradually we will find this assurance eroded.


Yes they are real people like you and I. And yes, some of the time, they can be nice people too.

I don't know much about transit lanes, (we don't have them in the South Island, no such thing as grid lock, or traffic jam) but I would imagine that T2 means two or more occupants in one vehicle are required to be in that lane, kinda makes sense.

If not, correct me, again not really familiar with them.

Please read Ixion's post above. He has all the appropriate facts and references there.

[klingon]

http://www.northshorecity.govt.nz/transport_and_roads/Public-transport/Transit-lanes.htm
Ticket is bullshit...contest it.


...and from that page: "Transit lanes are policed by specially trained council officers who are clearly visible on the footpath observing vehicles to ensure that only people who have a right to use the lane are in it."

it's a city bylaw and therefore probably should NOT be enforced by officers of state but subcontracted council representatives.

That link is to the North Shore City transit lanes - they are enforced by North Shore City officers and are in place as the result of a bylaw.

The original poster is referring to motorway onramp transit lanes. They are the responsibility of central government (via the NZ Transport Agency) as part of the state highway system.

[Swoop]

It is interesting that the majority of the ramp-signalling areas have a transit bypass lane. St Lukes Rd on-ramp, heading west, does not have one. Hopefully the cagers don't mind a bit of lane splitting as they wait the second or so for their light...:shit::scooter:

[klingon]

It is interesting that the majority of the ramp-signalling areas have a transit bypass lane. St Lukes Rd on-ramp, heading west, does not have one. Hopefully the cagers don't mind a bit of lane splitting as they wait the second or so for their light...:shit::scooter:

Yep, I always lane-split on the ones that don't have bypass lanes. I make a point of it, because they are such a new feature and I would like car drivers to get used to it right from the start: "motorbikes are exempt from ramp signals! If you want to be exempt too, get yourself a bike!"

By the way, the original idea for the bypass lanes was (I think) so trucks wouldn't have to stop and start when they were heading uphill. So uphill ramps all have bypass lanes, flat or downhill ones are less likely to. That's what I understood the Transit traffic engineer to say anyway.

[MSTRS]

That link is to the North Shore City transit lanes - they are enforced by North Shore City officers and are in place as the result of a bylaw.

The original poster is referring to motorway onramp transit lanes. They are the responsibility of central government (via the NZ Transport Agency) as part of the state highway system.

OK - that sounds fair enough. But how do you explain the ticket being justified, when the OP stated clearly the lane was T2, not Bus Only? http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/road-user-safety/safe-driving-tips/special-lanes.html

[Swoop]

...trucks wouldn't have to stop and start when they were heading uphill. So uphill ramps all have bypass lanes, flat or downhill ones are less likely to.
Well, that sort of makes sense.
I have yet to see a T2 on anything but a flat surface, out west, though.

[Mully]

By the way, the original idea for the bypass lanes was (I think) so trucks wouldn't have to stop and start when they were heading uphill. So uphill ramps all have bypass lanes, flat or downhill ones are less likely to. That's what I understood the Transit traffic engineer to say anyway.

My understanding is that the only "Bypass" lane that motorcycles are not allowed to use is the Southbound on-ramp in Grafton. That one is trucks specifically.

I think motorcycles are considered to be "high-occupancy" vehicles by Transit

[klingon]

OK - that sounds fair enough. But how do you explain the ticket being justified, when the OP stated clearly the lane was T2, not Bus Only? http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/road-user-safety/safe-driving-tips/special-lanes.html

Nope, can't justify the ticket. Quite the opposite. The OP should definitely challenge the ticket, with the full support of BRONZ (as Ixion has offered).


Well, that sort of makes sense.
I have yet to see a T2 on anything but a flat surface, out west, though.

The one I'm most familiar with is the westbound onramp at Great North Road (Waterview). It is slightly uphill and has a clearly marked T2 lane to bypass the ramp signals. That means me! :scooter:


My understanding is that the only "Bypass" lane that motorcycles are not allowed to use is the Southbound on-ramp in Grafton. That one is trucks specifically.

I think motorcycles are considered to be "high-occupancy" vehicles by Transit

Yep, that's my understanding, too. The Grafton bypass is for trucks coming uphill from the port, fully loaded with shipping containers. But all the others are T2 lanes and bikes are permitted.

[sAsLEX]

OK - that sounds fair enough. But how do you explain the ticket being justified, when the OP stated clearly the lane was T2, not Bus Only? http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/road-user-safety/safe-driving-tips/special-lanes.html

You surely are referring to a lane in which bikes are specifically excluded as written in the law when you write "bus only"....... I find it funny Transit or whoever is in charge of the MW can't even follow the law.

[Sparrowhawk]

Having just taken Mrs. Sparrowhawk thru the road code to get her 6L, I'm pretty sure it mentions the Transit Lanes as specifically allowing motorcycles. I'll check when I get home though.

[Ixion]

If it is signed as a T2 lane , then bikes may use it. Full stop. The "unless specifically excluded" thing does not apply to T2 (or T3) lanes.

Transit have consiently supported this, (most recently only a few weeks ago) and the law is quite clear.

The cop is wrong. (And his reference to having to have two people etc confirms that it was a T2 lane)

The ticket is illegal.

[MSTRS]

You surely are referring to a lane in which bikes are specifically excluded as written in the law when you write "bus only"....... I find it funny Transit or whoever is in charge of the MW can't even follow the law.
I'm not sure I follow what you are saying...
I know that certain Transit lanes are reserved for one vehicle type as indicated by markings (Bus Only, Bicycle Only, or stylised picture of allowed type). If marked as T2 then it may be used by any vehicle with 2 or more occupants AND motorcycles with rider only or with pillion.
I agree with Ixion below, and regardless of the incorrect reference in my first post I understood that the ticket was bullshit.

If it is signed as a T2 lane , then bikes may use it. Full stop. The "unless specifically excluded" thing does not apply to T2 (or T3) lanes.

Transit have consiently supported this, (most recently only a few weeks ago) and the law is quite clear.

The cop is wrong. (And his reference to having to have two people etc confirms that it was a T2 lane)

The ticket is illegal.

[xwhatsit]

It was the one at Penrose going North-bound on to the Southern Motorway.

I know it certainly has a T2 and a icon for buses and trucks, but don't think it has a motorbike icon on it. I'll make sure I take a snap next time I'm passing.

Thanks for the advice everyone - it's really great to get the support.
This is indeed a T2 lane, I use it most days to get to uni. First time I've heard of somebody getting ticketed on it, I've seen cops waiting at the end but I assume that was for radar guns etc. -- great onramp to give it shit (when the light goes green, three lanes racing side-by-side, there's an Audi RS4 there quite often...).

Interesting how many single-occupant cars feel they're allowed to use this particular lane.

[Swoop]

The ticket is illegal.
He should write himself a ticket for doing something illegal and by doing so it will help his personal quota...

Interesting how many single-occupant cars feel they're allowed to use this particular lane.
Quite so. The plod would get a few tickets out of doing just that.

[s_devo]

Well I came home from a great New Year's break to find the infringement notice has officially arrived in the mail. The offence is labeled as "Unauthorised use of special vehicle lane".

I suspect it's a pre-Christmas quota thing as some have hinted - as I also received in the mail a ticket for failing to display a current warrant of fitness on my car dated 17 December and it's clearly May 2009 in the car window.

I will contest both notices today, however I wonder how common this type of experience is with others, and how many infringement notices I need to receive before it's considered harassment!

Thanks to everyone for the support and the links have been just great thanks. Hopefully when someone else gets pinged they will find this thread and be able to clearly argue their case too.

[The Pastor]

cops are about 5 donuts short of a 6pack mate.

[Howsie]

"Unauthorised use of special vehicle lane".

I suspect it's a pre-Christmas quota thing as some have hinted - as I also received in the mail a ticket for failing to display a current warrant of fitness on my car dated 17 December and it's clearly May 2009 in the car window.


Photos will be really strong evidence in this case. Make sure you get a shot of the rego on your car too so they can check it if need be and that its not a random shot of any WOF sticker :msn-wink:

Might be tricky getting the onramp sign...... although across the road with a good zoom should work ok. i might be able to help you on that one if needed

Howsie

[Ixion]

Uh. Ride up. Dismount. Click. Mount . Ride off. Where's the problem?

[Howsie]

Again not just the "random Transit lane sign" might be best to get the whole intersection as well. Just covering all bases :)

Do you even need to dismount to take the photo? :p

[Howsie]

10,000 posts :niceone:

[s_devo]

Here are a few pics of the Penrose transit lane signs joining the motorway.

Note that bikes are not "specifically excluded by a sign at the start of the lane".

I've also included a shot from the Road Code of the compulsory signs listed on the LTSA website.

It states clearly "Transit lane, which can only be used by passenger service vehicles, cycles, motorcycles and vehicles carrying at least the number of people displayed on the sign (eg, T2 means two or more people, T3 means three or more people)."

I can't see how they can realistically claim that it's some other "Special vehicle lane" exempting motorbikes with the words "Transit" and the T2 in the sign.

[MSTRS]

That is very clear. Ask a 5 year old if they understand...
Cops are proving (yet again) that revenue is the primary motivator.

[skidMark]

WHat clever bastard is going to get some blow up dolls for thier cage? hat...jacket....

3 occupants much?

[s_devo]

I've attached a copy of the letter I've sent to the Infrindgement Bureau.

If anyone else gets pinged for using their authorised vehicle on the transit lane again they may like to download a copy and use it as a starter or a template. :cool:

[klingon]

I've attached a copy of the letter I've sent to the Infrindgement Bureau.

If anyone else gets pinged for using their authorised vehicle on the transit lane again they may like to download a copy and use it as a starter or a template. :cool:

Nice letter. Well done. Gives all the facts and references, sticks to the subject and doesn't get all emotional and whiney about it!

This would make an excellent template for others to use in similar circumstances - although I hope there will not be any more similar circumstances since the rules are so clear.

I wish I could bling you twice - once for sharing and once for the quality of your letter! :yes:

[MSTRS]

In the circumstances this thread (and the other one) refer to, since no offence against the law has been committed, why go to a lot of trouble?
Just use this template and fill in the blanks...

[s_devo]

Thanks for the bling x 2!


Just use this template and fill in the blanks...
How beautifully written - hey I really love your style. I think it may come in handy for responding to my so called "Failure to Display a Current Warrant of Fitness" infringement and suggest they get the same six year-old to read the numbers out loud for them 2...0....0....9! :msn-wink:

[gixxer-king]

In the circumstances this thread (and the other one) refer to, since no offence against the law has been committed, why go to a lot of trouble?
Just use this template and fill in the blanks...

sorry dudes, more inclined to use this letter although the pics from the earlier may assist.
great work guys keep it up. Its pigs like this that give pigs a bad name, like pigs or fuzz.

[RT527]

11. What is an HOV lane and who can use them?

The �High Occupancy Vehicle� lane is a priority lane to give high occupancy vehicles (HOVs � two or more people per car), trucks and buses faster access to the motorway.

Car-pool vehicles (two or more people per car) can use this lane to bypass the signals. The benefit of the lane is to move more people rather than more cars.

The priority lane for trucks, buses and car-pool vehicles will be operating soon at the Mt Wellington and South Eastern Highway northbound on-ramps. Motorcycles can also use the priority lanes, except at Grafton Road southbound on-ramp which is a trucks only priority lane.

this is from the transit website on HOV`s.

[marty]

Here are a few pics of the Penrose transit lane signs joining the motorway.

Note that bikes are not "specifically excluded by a sign at the start of the lane".

I've also included a shot from the Road Code of the compulsory signs listed on the LTSA website.

It states clearly "Transit lane, which can only be used by passenger service vehicles, cycles, motorcycles and vehicles carrying at least the number of people displayed on the sign (eg, T2 means two or more people, T3 means three or more people)."

I can't see how they can realistically claim that it's some other "Special vehicle lane" exempting motorbikes with the words "Transit" and the T2 in the sign.

I read that to say that motorcycles need 2 people to qualify. The AND is the clincher. It's very poorly written.

[Jantar]

I read that to say that motorcycles need 2 people to qualify. The AND is the clincher. It's very poorly written.
If that were the case there would be no need to list all those vehicles. it would be simpler to say "Vehicles carrying 2 or more people"

Your reading of it would also preclude busses that were empty.

[Ixion]

I read that to say that motorcycles need 2 people to qualify. The AND is the clincher. It's very poorly written.

The *law* is not so poorly written. It's quite clear

<dfn class="def-term" id="DLM303013" lang="en-NZ">transit lane</dfn> means a lane reserved for the use of the following (unless specifically excluded by a sign installed at the start of the lane)


(a) passenger service vehicles:



(b) motor vehicles carrying not less than the number of persons (including the driver) specified on the sign:



(c) cycles:



(d) motorcycles



(e) mopeds

Yes, cycles *could* use the priority lane. But , as they *can't* use the motorway, they'd be in a bit of a quandry when they got to the end, wouldn't they. Of course, not all T2 lanes lead onto motorways

Once again. The law is crystal clear. Motorcycles CAN use T2 lanes (and T3 , for that matter). Unless there is a sign that specifically excludes them . It must say "No motorcycles allowed" or some such words (yes, I know about the bus lanes). There are no such signs.

I don't know how the law writers could have made it clearer.

(d) . Motorcycles.

Which word don't the cops understand.

[NZJONESY]

why go to a lot of trouble?
Just use this template and fill in the blanks...

Please tell me someone has actually used this! hahaha

[s_devo]

An update on the letter I sent:

I did receive a letter in response on 10 February from Senior Sergeant BR Healey that stated:

"After careful consideration of our comments and the circumstances surrounding the issue of this notice, it has been decided, on this occasion, to cancel the infringement fee. No further action will be taken."

It's a bit of a 'claytons victory' really as it basically is saying that no action will be taken to persue the infringement fee. I suspect my name will technically remain on the database as a T2 lane breacher.

Himm....

[Gremlin]

I suspect it shouldn't be happening any more. Went up that very Transit lane the one day 1-2 months back, cop was at the end catching the people in cars travelling by themselves :clap:

Gave me one look, then ignored me, so I guess it has at least partially filtered down.

[s_devo]

Yeah I've been back on the T2 as well with the police stopping people in cars and they were ignoring the two bikes that wipped through. So at least there's been some progress for us bikies.

All good!