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View Full Version : AMCC Round 2 Clubmans - Biggles08



Biggles08
22nd December 2008, 09:37
I was so amped after my clean sweep at the PMCC Round 1 in Taupo I was interested seeing how my chisel would fair against bigger cc rated bikes on what is a pure hp track - Pukekohe.

Those who know me also know my thoughts on the quality of Pukekohe and its safety record...I think its an embarrassment to Aucklanders that this oval is the only track available to us and we are the biggest city in NZ!? So going forward from here, you understand my perception was somewhat tainted going into the AMCC Round 2. At the end of it...it turns out it was a lot worse that I thought....

I turn up to sign in and sort out my spot and hook up my tire warmers to wiggles' generator and chill out waiting for things to start.

Practice:

Out from the dummy grid I thought I would be fairly near the front of the grid so I wanted to get out first so as not to be held up in the qualifying. This was my second time on Pukekohe on my ZX6R so the track was not known to me really (although there is not too much to know about it apart from where the bumps are!). First lap I just wanted to stay in clear air so went fast enough to stay in the front. Second Lap I ramped it up a bit and felt ok. After this I really didn't feel like I improved much throughout the practice so when I came in I wasn't convinced about my grid position but felt I would be on the front row anyway. When I went to check it was a genuine surprise that I got pole...so I was stoked with that :-)

This is where things turned pear shaped!

We were starting on the grid with the pre 89 class so I wanted to find out how that worked. I went to the control tower (and asked for clearance for takeoff) and asked how the start would be conducted and what/where my grid position would be. I was told we would all start off the same set of lights but we (clubmans) would be all set up behind the pre 89's WITH A CONSIDERABLE GAP BETWEEN BOTH CLASSES! I explained that I was in pole position for clubmans and wanted to know where to line up....I was told that I would be shown where to line up by the guy on the grid and I should just pull over near the inside of the track behind the pre 89's and wait to be shown.

I did as was instructed and every other bugger on the grid went in front of me...I was waving at the guy who was supposed to be organizing the start positions, pointing at my number and doing a 'shrugging' motion with my shoulders and he pointed out a grid place for me....miles behind everyone else in my class. Oh well, he's the boss, so I started pushing my bike to where he was telling me to go and then the lights went!?!?!?!?! I was still in neutral, out of any grid position on a slight angle and the lights went out!!!!! Fuck thats safe! (have a look at the attached pic of moments before the lights went out - I'm 808 sitting about 4th from the back on the left of the pic)

Turn 1 I had about 20+ bikes in front of me, half of which were clubmans....so much for pole position!?! Needless to say I was using some pretty choice words in my helmet and as I went past the start/finish line at the start I had enough time to take my hand off the bar and gesture to the fuckhead who was supposed to be organizing us a open palm to the sky saying "WTF???"

Back straight, first lap....bikes flying past me at a great rate of knots as everyone in pre 89's/clubmans seem to think they need to brake at about 250mtrs to the hairpin! Ended up coming 4th overall and second in clubmans.

I went to complain about the start and for the second race they put a cone on the side of the track indicating where we were to line up from. This worked better but there were still people in the wrong place at the start but at least the front row was right!?! I won the second race :-)

Third race was red flagged at about lap 3 of a 6 lap race due to a bad accident but I was leading that too.

All in all I have very little enthusiasm for the AMCC and Pukekohe setting...it was a very amateur run day with delays and little control for those running it! (we had another riders briefing to tell us to make sure our numbers are clearer so they can read them to take our times/positions) Most disappointed with the starts and believe their is little excuse for not at least getting the pole position right...I mean thats where EVERYONE LINES OFF AGAINST no wonder they couldn't get the rest of the positions right!?!

Not sure if it will help but a couple of suggestions for the AMCC from a newbie racer - and before all the feel good fuck heads come out telling me that it is run by volunteers and I should be thankful - if that is the case then don't charge me $85 for shit...I pay for my racing...a lot of money so yes I expect a certain level of professionalism from the club I belong to!- anyway suggestions:

1) Make it compulsory for people to either provide or hire transponders like every other club in NZ! This will sort out most of the problems
2) When starting two classes off the same grid, grid ALL the bikes together based on lap times in qualifying, regardless of what class they are racing in...I know I won't be alone when I say it was fucking scary riding past some very very very slow pre 89 bikes (and some clubmans) down the back straight on the first lap. This will also lend towards better racing for the crowd (hahaha....what crowd! ;-))...I know I was having a good battle with a pre 89 guy (Frankie) on a GSX1100 (well 1200 really :-)) in both races but we were not racing in the same class.

So...in conclusion, AMCC need to lift their game if they want people to continue to race in their comps...the Round 1 of the PMCC series I attended at Taupo track 3 was superior in all aspects of the day....sort your shit out AMCC!!!!:mad:

Biggles08

Morcs
22nd December 2008, 10:20
bugger mate.

glad you still owned.

trackdays are more organised than AMCC :mellow:

Tony.OK
22nd December 2008, 10:34
Nice results givin the circumstances dude.................the more events you do the more you realise that each event is so different, especially coming from a high with your 1st meeting.......................it ain't like ya see on telly is it hahaa............where's all the hot chicks and champagne:woohoo:

Well done fella......

scracha
22nd December 2008, 10:55
Nice results givin the circumstances dude.................the more events you do the more you realise that each event is so different, especially coming from a high with your 1st meeting.......................it ain't like ya see on telly is it hahaa............where's all the hot chicks and champagne:woohoo:

Well done fella......

Why the hell did they lump clubmans in with pre89? That's just stupid. There's a hell of a lot of VERY close racing (fairing bashing) goes on in pre89 and mixing 50ishbhp bikes (junior) with more than 100ish (senior) together with inexperienced guys on 100andgawdknowsbhp clubmans bikes isn't a good idea.

NinjaBoy
22nd December 2008, 12:15
Well done on your results and good writeup. Last year organisation wise AMCC were way ahead of PMCC, but generally AMCC are quite good.

Most of last season they had Post Classics with Clubmans and they gridded everyone on their qualifying time regardless of class. This gave those faster riders in Clubmans some more experienced riders to dice with. And as Tony said, every meet and race has its slight differences and challenges. Its not worth the stress getting worked up over it. Wait in anticipation for the adrenline rush of the next one !:niceone:

Toast
22nd December 2008, 12:31
Stop your whinging, au! :D Good results, dude. Definitely time you come play in F1/F2.

I agree that it's a shame Puke is all us Aucklander's have. If it was owned by people who gave half a shit about motorsport it would be a much safer place to race...shame it will never reach its potential.

Kornholio
22nd December 2008, 12:47
Stop your whinging, au! :D Good results, dude. Definitely time you come play in F1/F2.

I agree that it's a shame Puke is all us Aucklander's have. If it was owned by people who gave half a shit about motorsport it would be a much safer place to race...shame it will never reach its potential.

Wait til Hampton Downs :D

Toast
22nd December 2008, 13:02
Wait til Hampton Downs :D

I am, along with every other monkey!

Biggles08
22nd December 2008, 13:32
Stop your whinging, au! :D Good results, dude. Definitely time you come play in F1/F2.

I agree that it's a shame Puke is all us Aucklander's have. If it was owned by people who gave half a shit about motorsport it would be a much safer place to race...shame it will never reach its potential.

Awwww...not even au! I like whining...its suits me ;-)

For the record, I'm not stressing just pointing out some obvious flaws in the otherwise good day...I was disappointed that I didn't get to play with Nigel some more because of a fucked start that I had nothing to do with!<_<

As for F1/F2 I'm coming to play after I've finished this series in clubmans. If i win all races at Manfield in PMCC Round 2 (clubmans) then I may consider competing in F2 for Round 3 at taupo...but first things first huh :-D

Biggles08
22nd December 2008, 13:35
...Last year organisation wise AMCC were way ahead of PMCC, but generally AMCC are quite good. Well so far not this year! :(

...and they gridded everyone on their qualifying time regardless of class. This gave those faster riders in Clubmans some more experienced riders to dice with. Why did they change????? That makes wayyyyyyyyyyy more sense to me!

HDTboy
22nd December 2008, 14:25
You sir, are a burglar

sharky
22nd December 2008, 14:54
You clearly take your racing pretty seriously and that is a good thing. Clubmans is a learners class and I doubt you are learning a lot out the front on your own. Time for F2 me thinks. There you have an opportunity to get involved with a bit more dicing which is where the fun lies;)
I was in Pre '89 juniors and although I agree it was a bit hairy at times -1st lap into hairpin under brakes was a bit congested with Clubmans guys dropping the anchors well early after wizzing by on the back straight.
But on the whole I really enjoyed having Clubmans in with us. The fast bikes would smoke me down the back straight then I'd make it back up on the rest of the track.
What you suggested could work or alternatively give us a half lap head start so when you do begin to catch up you'd be a bit more spread out rather than still in a bunch.

And yeah, stop whinging:laugh:

prettybillie
22nd December 2008, 16:33
Stop your whinging, au! :D

Take a viagra and HTFU!!!! :jerry:

Sketchy_Racer
22nd December 2008, 17:10
As for F1/F2 I'm coming to play after I've finished this series in clubmans. If i win all races at Manfield in PMCC Round 2 (clubmans) then I may consider competing in F2 for Round 3 at taupo...but first things first huh :-D

I'd say you abilities on the bike show that you are more than capable of being in F2 mate. If clubmans get's to fast, it'll become daunting for other new comers possibly putting them off.

oyster
22nd December 2008, 22:47
Start line stuff ups is our biggest safety issue at the moment, in my opinion.
2 classes with a split grid should be flagged away separately, giving a good gap between them before the second class is flagged away. By the time they mix they're then well spread out. Common sense? It seems not....
The system of a common start but a gap between the grids is a major disaster waiting to happen. This gap means the bikes at the back could be doing 160kph plus when they come across a stationary (failed to start) bike from the front class. This won't be an "inconvenience crash" it'll be a fatal.
Get your concerns to the Safety Commissioner.

westie
22nd December 2008, 23:43
So...in conclusion, AMCC need to lift their game if they want people to continue to race in their comps...the Round 1 of the PMCC series I attended at Taupo track 3 was superior in all aspects of the day....sort your shit out AMCC!!!!:mad:

Biggles08

Lol. Never was impressed with AMCC.
Right from the start when I was told
"you cant race at puke untill you've raced at puke",
"we wont have new racers(day licence) on the track",
"oh, unless you have your mnz licence then its safer"

Good to hear you are doing well despite it though

puddy
23rd December 2008, 06:45
Don't forget, winning a clubmans race is like winning against a bunch of handicaps :shutup::innocent:

When I grow up, I wanna be a handicap!:crazy: Good going Bro!:first: And yes, I thought lining up based on lap times was a give-in! (even a wanabe handicap like me can work that out!)

roadracingoldfart
23rd December 2008, 06:53
Don't forget, winning a clubmans race is like winning against a bunch of handicaps :shutup::innocent:

That statement my young friend is OUT OF ORDER.



.

Biggles08
23rd December 2008, 07:02
When I grow up, I wanna be a handicap!:crazy: Good going Bro!:first: And yes, I thought lining up based on lap times was a give-in! (even a wanabe handicap like me can work that out!)

Well yes...I'm of the same opinion....even a handicap like me can see its the obvious choice....otherwise your mixing inexperienced fast riders on modern bikes with more inexperienced (or even experienced) slow riders on older bikes on a 'arse-about-face' grid.... its only a matter of time. In fact, in the last race that was red flagged I got a reasonable start but immediately had to back off due to the rear of a pre 89 right in my way...if he had stalled or miss started, I hate to think of what may have occurred!

boomer
23rd December 2008, 07:09
Well Done Mate/..good running. I'm of the same opinion as others, you should be racing in other classes not clubmans.... Clubmans is for people to wobble there way around a track...

good stuff au :Punk:


you're Puke times are within teh 15% cut offs for the nationals.....

kittytamer
23rd December 2008, 08:59
I agree with most of Biggles comments, but as this was my first ever race meeting as a participant I have no basis for comparison. I thought the start of the first race was a complete debacle too, I noticed there were about 5 of us shaking our heads as we went over the start line.
The start grid should be done on qualifying time alone, regardless of what class the bike is in (clubmans has enough veriety alone). The last race crash (which happened a couple of meteres in front of me) would have been avoided if the grid was set up in this way so you don't have guys who are 10 - 15s a lap faster having to negotiate around slower bikes and with the old buses taking different lines to modern bikes this crash was kind of inevitable.
There is a statement in the small print of the AMCC clubman rules that states if a competitors lap times are less than 1m10s then they will be asked to move to their specific class. This rule is obviously not inforced, but most of Biggles gripes would go away if he was in F2 - at least it would give the rest of a chance!

t3mp0r4ry nzr
23rd December 2008, 09:10
That statement my young friend is OUT OF ORDER.



.

is all tongue in check man. it is the internet after all. it aint real

Biggles08
23rd December 2008, 09:18
but most of Biggles gripes would go away if he was in F2 - at least it would give the rest of a chance!

Well they would go away for me but not for you! All the problems encountered in this clubmans/pre 89 race would still be there regardless if I was racing in F2 or not!? I will be moving to F2 for future races but as this was my first ever race at Pukekohe - not to mention only my second time on this track....I felt I was within my rights to enter as a newbie in the clubmans class - at least I'm only on a 600cc bike! I may as well finish the series now and maybe try and notch up a win don't you think??

Their are fundamental issues here that can't be swept away under the "oh he's too fast for clubmans" rug. As you said, the crash that happened was almost inevitable... I'm just surprised that it happened there and not on turn 1!

Anyway Kittytamer...turn up the heat bro...lets see what that R6 of yours can do aye :niceone:

Biggles08
23rd December 2008, 09:23
Well Done Mate/..good running. I'm of the same opinion as others, you should be racing in other classes not clubmans.... Clubmans is for people to wobble there way around a track...

good stuff au :Punk:


you're Puke times are within teh 15% cut offs for the nationals.....

oh come on bro! you know I wobble when I ride ;-)

I will be in F2 soon enough....I think I'm doing the right thing tho getting used to the track under 'race conditions' rather than track day. Anyway....I will be in F2 for the enduro race on monday :-) you coming to watch au!?

kittytamer
23rd December 2008, 09:26
Anyway Kittytamer...turn up the heat bro...lets see what that R6 of yours can do aye :niceone:

I'm trying man, I'm trying! (I think you may even have seen the back of it for the first half a lap in race 3!)

I will be raising the start grid issue with the club after Christmas, I don't intend to brush anything under tha carpet and, yes, although you were fast on the day, as a newbie racer, clubmans is definetely the place to start. I just hope I can knock about 5 seconds off my lap so I can get into F2 without getting in anyones way. There was at least one bike in F2 that was too slow and this is potentially dangerous.

boomer
23rd December 2008, 10:13
oh come on bro! you know I wobble when I ride ;-)

I will be in F2 soon enough....I think I'm doing the right thing tho getting used to the track under 'race conditions' rather than track day. Anyway....I will be in F2 for the enduro race on monday :-) you coming to watch au!?


hey its all good and you do what ya do.. but everyone has to learn tracks huh!? I'd say it's learning race conditions which is gonna be the biggy for ya . and bro.. if you're pole, holeshotting every meet then i'd suggest you're not getting ANY race experience other than leading... lol

if u head up a group you'll be mid to rear pack and the big boys will leave you alone until they lap you... thats where the real experience is to be gained bro .. in my opinion of course.

like the chick above says.. you're six seconds above pace and WELL within national cut off times... ;) :banana:

wharfy
23rd December 2008, 11:43
Don't forget, winning a clubmans race is like winning against a bunch of handicaps :shutup::innocent:

Hey ......... I resemble that remark !!!

Sketchy_Racer
23rd December 2008, 14:14
That statement my young friend is OUT OF ORDER.

.

As below mate, I don't think that cheeky remark is anywhere near as offensive as talk in a rude way about a certain 'tweety' in another thread but anyway.

Clubmans is a learner class, if you are first past the finish in clubmans in your first outing and within the 15% cut off time for nationals, you definitely don't belong there. In the VMCC series, he would not make it past the first race in clubmans before getting moved to F2.


is all tongue in check man. it is the internet after all. it aint real

Exactly mate, people get to emotionally involved with other peoples words on this forum. Take everything on the light and you'll be sweet, otherwise HTFU

Biggles08
23rd December 2008, 14:47
hey its all good and you do what ya do.. but everyone has to learn tracks huh!? I'd say it's learning race conditions which is gonna be the biggy for ya . and bro.. if you're pole, holeshotting every meet then i'd suggest you're not getting ANY race experience other than leading... lol

if u head up a group you'll be mid to rear pack and the big boys will leave you alone until they lap you... thats where the real experience is to be gained bro .. in my opinion of course.

like the chick above says.. you're six seconds above pace and WELL within national cut off times... ;) :banana:

And I agree with you of course D...however...to be fair, I came second in the first race which means I wasn't the first over the line...which means there is some other faster bugger than me in the clubmans class ;-D....sort of.

The main thing I'm learning is race starts (apart from this meeting of course)....never had to perform those before...well pressured ones anyway, and I'm getting experience in changing braking points and exit lines to overtake people....thats valuable lessons IMHO. When I move to F2 I would say the main thing I will need to learn is defensive lines....that lesson will come eventually...one thing at a time ;-).

In the pmcc round 1 meeting I was in third place at some stage throughout two of the three races so their was some good racing in those two races...I wasn't all on my own. R1, R6 and my ZX6R were having a great time dicing with one another and it just so happened that I managed to get them before the checkered flag on all three occasions...but it was by no means a forgone conclusion...they made me work for it.

Puke on the other hand was a little less contested to be fair...I was surprised at how well I did on a 600cc bike...with the only real competition being Nigel on his GSXR1000...well up on horses than mine. besides....sponsors like it when you tell them you won....even if it is only clubmans ;-):yes: its all part of the bigger picture! :innocent:

Biggles08
23rd December 2008, 14:50
I'm trying man, I'm trying! (I think you may even have seen the back of it for the first half a lap in race 3!)

lol....good boy! I'm just giving ya shit anyway kt...I'm sure you will be giving me the learn at some stage this year in F2...woooop!:woohoo:

kittytamer
23rd December 2008, 15:10
lol....good boy! I'm just giving ya shit anyway kt...I'm sure you will be giving me the learn at some stage this year in F2...woooop!:woohoo:

Look forward to it:Playnice:

Biggles08
24th December 2008, 07:32
Look forward to it:Playnice:

Play nice???? Nah...elbows out I'm coming through ;-) hehehe:clap:

prettybillie
27th December 2008, 12:46
Play nice???? Nah...elbows out I'm coming through ;-) hehehe:clap:

:girlfight: