Downhill riding? hmmm

[dblancer]

Hi guys

A most obvious question especially regarding my location ( hilly old Dunedin ) but I am struggling right now with downhill and downhill/with curves riding.
I am getting better at leaning all the time, but am finding myself dreading going down a hill alot. Im not sure whether I lean back or lean forward, as it feels unnatural to lean into the hill.
I find myself braking alot and nearly screwing up the lean.

I would love to get some good techniques or some guidence on this.
Id hate to screw up a downhill in dunedin

[Shadows]

Riding in a low enough gear that you still have to use the throttle as you would on the flat coming out of corners works for me. You shouldn't need to use the brakes a hell of a lot more than usual just because the bike is pointing downhill.

[reofix]

correct gear is crucial... brake early and hard... gravity is added to downhill momentum... easy to get badly wrong... compared to hammering uphill which is easy... stay in your envelope and learn... feel your way

[Mom]

Motorcycles have fantastic engine brakes, use them. Select a gear that will slow you down and hold you from gathering too much speed on the downhill with no throttle. Then just ride as normal. You will be braced to an extent on the handlebars, dont lean back (unless it is really steep), dont lean forward. Relax.

Ride heaps on those hills over summer, get to know them. This will serve you well when winter comes.

[Goblin]

It's funny, up here, you hear people twaddle on about hill climbs and "up the Kaimais" or "up the Rotomas" but the real fun is in the downhill!:ride:
Like others said...use the bikes engine braking to control the bike. Practice makes perfect.

Some crazy buggers even turn their engines off and coast down using just their brakes!:shit: But dont do that.:innocent:

[vtec]

Motorcycles have fantastic engine brakes, use them. Select a gear that will slow you down and hold you from gathering too much speed on the downhill with no throttle. Then just ride as normal. You will be braced to an extent on the handlebars, dont lean back (unless it is really steep), dont lean forward. Relax.

Ride heaps on those hills over summer, get to know them. This will serve you well when winter comes.

The engine is not there to slow you down, when braking all the weight goes on the front wheel and off the back wheel, on a downhill this is even more so. Same reason why you have at least 4 times the braking capacity on the front wheel than you have on the rear.

Going downhill is a lot more difficult than going on the flat or up hill, and it's easier to lose the front end or have the tail step out.

My advice is if you are really worried, then put better tyres on your bike, if you are running wide on downhill corners because you are afraid of leaning it, then you are going to have to do one of two things, man up and lean it more, or slow down.

[Shadows]

The engine is not there to slow you down, when braking all the weight goes on the front wheel and off the back wheel, on a downhill this is even more so. Same reason why you have at least 4 times the braking capacity on the front wheel than you have on the rear.

Going downhill is a lot more difficult than going on the flat or up hill, and it's easier to lose the front end or have the tail step out.


Exactly. Hence why in downhill road riding the brakes shouldn't be used much more than normal.

The only way to do that it use the correct gear and use the throttle to control speed... rather than just to provide it.

[MyGSXF]

NighthawkNZ is your local mentor.. :yes: send him a pm & book in for some time together! :scooter:

A couple of pointers..

* It is vital to look up & look way ahead of you.. & not at the ground in front of you.
* Use your gears & do all your braking BEFORE you get to the corner
* In a right hand corner, your wheels need to be in the LEFT hand wheel track & on a left hand corner, in the RIGHT hand(ish) wheel track
* Approx 75% of your braking capacity comes from your FRONT brake
* Lean WITH your bike, not backwards or forwards
* Relax

Hope this helps! :rockon:

[NighthawkNZ]

Hi guys

A most obvious question especially regarding my location ( hilly old Dunedin ) but I am struggling right now with downhill and downhill/with curves riding.
I am getting better at leaning all the time, but am finding myself dreading going down a hill alot. Im not sure whether I lean back or lean forward, as it feels unnatural to lean into the hill.
I find myself braking alot and nearly screwing up the lean.

I would love to get some good techniques or some guidence on this.
Id hate to screw up a downhill in dunedin

what MyGSXF said.
If you are having problems let me know and we can organise a ride, and see if i can give a few pointers...

Relax, rule of thumb ride down the hill roughly in the same gear you would go up it... relax
Remember to look around the corner, look where you want to take the bike
Some bikes are better at engine braking than others, (But as others said its not there to stop you...) However be at the speed you want to go around the corner before you actually hit it.
Avoid heavy sudden braking for a corner, especially in Dunedin with many off camber corners, this will also help your ride be smoother
brake before the corner not during or while you are in it

[Jantar]

The hills in Dunedin are unlike the hills in any other city in New Zealand, except maybe some suburbs in Wellington. Relying on engine braking alone is unlikely to be sufficient, and some additional use of brakes on Dunedin's hills will be be required. The main point is to brake gently and early, and release the brakes on entry to the corners. Many of the bends in Dunedin are off camber, and that also requires a bit more care, as any braking in the corner itself is likely to cause you to run wider than you intended.

I'm not sure what part of Dunedin you're in, but may I suggest a good practice route is along Highgate to Maori Hill then down Lachlan Ave and Warrender St to George St.

Don't treat this road like a race track. It is technically difficult and will force you to watch your speed carefully all the way.

Edit: I should mention that the tight left hander on Warrender St may require you to carry brake right through the bend, especially if you are following other traffic.

[NighthawkNZ]

Many of the bends in Dunedin are off camber, and that also requires a bit more care, as any braking in the corner itself is likely to cause you to run wider than you intended.


And they can catch even the odd experienced rider out too... they area right royal c**t

[Tone165]

To add my 2c (Which due to being Aussie is worth 2.2c NZ)

Good advice so far although I don't advocate using engine braking much. As someone said use the same gear as you would uphill or on flat (But this assumes you use the right gears there!)

Brake hard..before the corner...slow in fast out always the right way.

If you have confidence issues about leaning...get thee to a track-day, or some coaching sessions. Lack of confidence in corners is leading cause of crashes because it results in running wide!

Specs for my fave tyre say 54deg lean in dry, and 45 deg in wet...my balls aint that big..but it does say that the tyres have got more grip than many of us have courage....shame to end up with a wrecked bike or injuries cos you didn't think you could make it....so gave up instead of trying!

Practice does not make perfect by the way...it makes permanent!

Make sure that you are practicing the right things, not the wrong ones!!!!

My first post on this site, but did not see a place to introduce myself...

[Jantar]

Welcome Tone. Have a look under Forums for a section called "New Member Speaks" We'll look forward to your contributions.

Dunedin has the steepest streets of any city in the world. Baldwin St in NE Valley has a gradient of 35% and is the world's steepest st and, fortunately, it is straight.

The upshot is that once dblancer has managed Dunedin's downhill sections he'll manage any downhill section. In my learner days, I actually walked my bike down one road the first time I approached it.

[NighthawkNZ]

T
Brake hard..before the corner...


Depending on the street, as Jantar said Dunedin has some very step streets (with many off camber corners)...

Braking hard is not the best thing to do in this situation... but ease braking and a mix of engine braking and front and rear for more control of your speed as you come to the corner

[Toaster]

Excessive drinking helps me relax.

[doc]

Some crazy buggers even turn their engines off and coast down using just their brakes!:shit: But dont do that.:innocent:


Why not ???

[Goblin]

Why not ???Well you dont want to end up in the Drift Dimension do you? Fate worse than death that is!:eek:

[dblancer]

Finally got out again and challenged myself to do some hill riding.

Tonights outting was Mount Cargill which was a good challenge, still having to basically talk to myself and scream "lean!!" in some of the corners, but i think i did well.

It gets better every time I ride out there.
This time it was windy and it didnt phase me at all. Plus I make sure to wear my gloves ever time now

Good points are, I am focusing better on where I am going, not looking at anything else. ( ie cars, poles etc )
I am more confident in the back brake applied gently and the engine braking thru hills

plus the bike was alot happier...
-Changed coolant and completely flushed last week.
-Changed oil too ( which I swear makes gear changing easier...)

thanks for the info regarding the mentor, ill look into it

[Okey Dokey]

That's the way, dblancer! Practice makes perfect. Mastering the skill of riding is very satisfying in itself. Enjoy.

[quickbuck]

Finally got out again and challenged myself to do some hill riding.

Tonights outting was Mount Cargill which was a good challenge, still having to basically talk to myself and scream "lean!!" in some of the corners, but i think i did well.


Good on you for getting out to practice.

I'll add to the advise given.
Screaming LEAN will NOT help. Leaning alone will not either.

Use the search function on here and type in "Counter Steering" and have a read.
Also if you think it (countersteering) is all whaffle check out this (http://www.superbikeschool.com/machinery/no-bs-machine.php)

I hope it makes sence.
Another thing to try is to find a push bike wheel in the shed and spin it up and try and turn it.

Happy motorcycling.