Two bikes down near Akaroa 27/12 (fatality)

[Naki Rat]

Lead story on TV3 news was of Christmas road toll that this afternoon included a bike fatality in the Akaroa area. Condolences to families.

Following story regarding motorcycle accident rate and ACC claims up.... Here we go :(

Film footage of Akaroa accident coming up (after 6.20)

[Sharry]

Condolences to the families.

Whats next?? TV crews waiting on the hot spots with camers at the ready? It's so disrespecful to play footage like that.

[slofox]

Yea thats terrible, i guess they didnt imagine what its like for the family and only wanted whats best for tv

Shock and horror lifts ratings an' lifted ratings get money...an' we all know that money is GOD here.......they need a kick up the arse imo

[dmc]

I missed the story on the news, did it show what type of bikes were involved?

[wbks]

Wait, they showed actuall roling film of it? I thought they just showed a presenter speaking and a picture?
And dmc- they only showed one bike. I was eating dinner so not paying much attention but i think it was a vtr sp1? mind you, like i said i wasn't paying attention so may have been a duke for all i know

[wbks]

possibly... but the position of the bike, angle the camera had taken the picture and type of bike looks suspiciously similar... im probably wrong though. still... sucks. RIP

[MyGSXF]

Oh god, no.. RIP & condolances... :(



http://www.stuff.co.nz/4804409a11.html

[RC1]

did it just say 5 bikes involved ?

[Naki Rat]

It would seem that the earlier photo was either archive footage or a mock up. To put a photo of that detail up on a breaking news accident would definitely be over the top.

Probably read that right. Footage was of bikes only and seemed to be classic style (70s) type bikes. One overtaking bike took out 3 other oncoming bikes.

[Richi]

Exactly. Weird though, Usually they are pretty reluctant to even show limbs of a dead person being carted away (and blur out so much as their feet) , but for some reason this time they showed this dead guy sprawled out over the tarmac. wtfs that about? Duno but they were all remorsefull for the dead on the road... And then followed that up with statistics on how harsh bikes are for ACC levies

ok just after the top 10 "big celebrity moments" at the end of the news they showed aerial pics of the scene. No bodies, 4 bikes over both sides of the road. The police officer said 1 bike was overtaking a car and collided with 3 going the opposite way. 2 (?) were killed. 2 driven to hospital in ambulance, one flown to hospital. Didnt say too much else i dont think

Condolences to the families

[wbks]

shit i thought it was just 2 bikes? u guys watching 1 news? care to gimme a link?
shit sounds harsh

[piston broke]

condolences to all involved.
kinda makes me physically(sp) ill.
shite bikes head on.

[Paris]

Well I guess it paints a picture for what the media is about - making a story and accentuating a negative perspective.

This was a tragic accident, and everyone's thoughts (particularly kiwiriders) will be with the families of those involved, rather than the media's passion for the macabre.

[Paul in NZ]

Well I guess it paints a picture for what the media is about - making a story and accentuating a negative perspective.

This was a tragic accident, and everyone's thoughts (particularly kiwiriders) will be with the families of those involved, rather than the media's passion for the macabre.

You are kidding me right? Exactly which part of this was accidental?

With the greatest respect to those who have passed on, the media are possibly trying to highlight poor behaviour which has taken at least one innocent life. There is so much negative in what I've read hear re this situation I would struggle to see a positive? Lets assume that an overtaking bike did take out bikes coming the other way? Should I excuse that person because they rode a bike? Sorry - don't see it really, sure, someone screwed up bigtime but people are dead because of it.

I hate these stories - hate whenever someone gets hurt riding a bike because it does not need to be that way! I feel for the families, god knows whats going through their minds tonight - too sad!

[chanceyy]

this thread is not to be used as a crap fight, swearing is not going to get your point across either

RIP to the riders

[FruitLooPs]

Ta for the mods edit, don't need that rubbish in these threads. :2guns:


RIP guys :( , lets try and stick around for 09 :soon:

[roy.nz]

Sorry to here that, wish the family all the best. RIP mate.

[dipshit]

http://www.3news.co.nz/Video/Motorcyclists-reminded-to-be-aware-of-risks/tabid/309/articleID/85563/cat/64/Default.aspx?articleID=85563#video

[blairh]

Aww man this sucks, will definitely wait until more details are out before I form an opinion about what happened etc... but either way, really awful for everyone involved. Anyone know if they were KB'ers? =(

[homer]

Exactly. Weird though, Usually they are pretty reluctant to even show limbs of a dead person being carted away (and blur out so much as their feet) , but for some reason this time they showed this dead guy sprawled out over the tarmac. wtfs that about? Duno but they were all remorsefull for the dead on the road... And then followed that up with statistics on how harsh bikes are for ACC levies

well considering the time of year....... maybe there trying to get attention, to others.

[rodimus]

http://www.3news.co.nz/Video/Motorcyclists-reminded-to-be-aware-of-risks/tabid/309/articleID/85563/cat/64/Default.aspx?articleID=85563#video

Man - That Andrew Templeton is a Legend. He's been trying to help motorcyclists develop safe riding skills for nearly 20 years now. He's always got some good sound advice to give. Dunno about the goaty though!!!

[Krazyklaus]

http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/newsdetail1.asp?storyID=150181
Newstalk ZB are reporting a third rider has died in hospital.
RIP

[BBzz]

Condolences to the families

[Geeman]

A mate and I had just come over gebbes pass on the way back to chch and had to turn around because of the crash...we saw the 3 fire engines and ambulances and realised it had to be a bad one. That's the second bike crash on the stretch between Taitap and Little River that I've luckily missed by minutes. Definitely makes me slow down a bit and think twice before overtaking.

Condolences to the families.

[Paul in NZ]

this thread is not to be used as a crap fight, swearing is not going to get your point across either

RIP to the riders

Yes - quite right, what a waste..... RIP, so sad that the pillions are the partners of the riders. I suppose I'm extra sensitive considering the miles Vicki and I have put in as a team and on that stretch of road.

[Rhino]

If the latest info from the Police Comms email is correct;
At about 4:20 pm on Saturday the 27th of December 2009 there was a fatal vehicle collision on the Christchurch Akaroa Highway between Tai Tapu and Motukarara.
Initial enquires indicate that a motorcycle heading towards Christchurch has overtaken a number of vehicles on a sweeping bend.
The motorcycle has collided with one of two oncoming motorcycles travelling towards Akaroa, causing the third motorcycle to crash.
As a result of the collision two male riders died at the scene. A female passenger has died at the Christchurch Public Hospital as a result of injuries sustained during the collision.
Another female passenger is currently in a critical condition.
While I have sympathy for all involved, this could have been avoided if everyone had left their overtaking to straight stretches of road with good visibility.

RIP to all those involved and condolences to all family members.

[Dutchee]

Condolences to all involved.

[dipshit]

Katman, grow up, Your the one feeding on the results of a tragic event. We know people died, we feel it, No reason for you to throw shit at people who aren't involved.


So? Why get so morbid and said because some motorcyclists killed themselves..???

They were just having some fun on their bikes... and apparently any mishaps along the way are worth it.

www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=85594

"We are fragile little beings in the scheme of things and
man, when we hit something hard, our fleshy little bits get
hurt a lot and it isn't fun. Broken bones take a long time
to heal and in cold weather it feels like they never did.

But, man, it's so worth it. I've said over and over again
and so have others, that five minutes in "the zone" on a
nice bit of road, going for it, means you live more in five
minutes than many will in a lifetime."

[mikeey01]

RIP and thoughts go out to the family.

[Brian d marge]

If the latest info from the Police Comms email is correct;
While I have sympathy for all involved, this could have been avoided if everyone had left their overtaking to straight stretches of road with good visibility.

RIP to all those involved and condolences to all family members.
I used to live in that area and travel into work every day from Little river way ...The holidays I stayed off the road ,,,because the townies were out ,,, Seriously BAD driving ... ( not that famers were much better the rest of the time !!

I know that corner ( if it is the one I am thinking of) ..Its a good corner ,,,BIIIG long straight well actually a few off em , if you include the Black tulip ...into well out dide the black tuplip is a nice sweeper ...

Cant blame anyone for having a go at that one ,,,,

But crossing the center line ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Cant say no more than that and the people here aint the ones I am worried about ,,,

That Tv nz report was sorta on the money ,,, we ( me included ) do cost others a fair bit in medical bills because of the mode of transport ... $ 50 bucks ,,,in a user pays counrty ... ..it could be a lot more than that ..

what can one say ,,,,



Stephen

[mashman]

shit i've got friends riding down that way... Anyone know the types of bikes involved please???

[GrayWolf]

The holidays I stayed off the road ,,,because the townies were out ,,, Seriously BAD driving ... ( not that famers were much better the rest of the time !!
Cant blame anyone for having a go at that one ,,,,
But crossing the center line ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Cant say no more than that
That Tv nz report was sorta on the money ,,, we ( me included ) do cost others a fair bit in medical bills because of the mode of transport ... $ 50 bucks ,,,in a user pays counrty ... ..it could be a lot more than that ..
Stephen

You're right on the user pays system. However the flaw with the current system is the 'No Blame' Policy. I am certainly not absolving bad riding practices, but when you consider that a very high percentage of bike accidnets are "didnt see you mate" ones. One has to wonder how much more observant dirvers would be if they were financialy hit hard for medical bills etc. :doctor: Insurances can cover these costs, and that would load the premiums of car drivers rather than loading the bike riders insurances.
As for drivers being observant? Have a wee think on how often you've heard of a Police Motorcyclist being pulled out on...... Drivers DO see bikes, but it is the 'percieved threat' of psychology in action. They are safe in the little tin box. However, Policeman? Er not safe guv, they can "do me" and suddenly the threat they percieve is increased substantialy, the Police bike registers at a higher level.

[scumdog]

One has to wonder how much more observant dirvers would be if they were financialy hit hard for medical bills etc. :doctor:

Not wishing to hi-jack BUT regarding above: at the time the act of idiocy/carelessness occurs the offending party is very unlikely to consider what you are saying.

[The Stranger]

So? Why get so morbid and said because some motorcyclists killed themselves..???

They were just having some fun on their bikes... and apparently any mishaps along the way are worth it.

www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=85594



Ironic - I rode yesterday with Beyond on a coro loop. Yesterday of all days.
Why? Because Beyond was riding.
One of the best riders - if not the best - I have ever riden with.
Don't drag him into this, ride your own ride and judge not.

[swbarnett]

$ 50 bucks ,,,in a user pays counrty ... ..it could be a lot more than that ..
I lived in a user pays country and it was a lot less than our ACC. Fr180 (approx. $NZ180) bought you full medical insurance for a year anywhere you happened to be inthe world (including a plane ride to a country with decent hospitals if you were up to travelling). And this was uniformally applied across the board regardless of who you were or what mode of transport you chose.

[swbarnett]

You're right on the user pays system. However the flaw with the current system is the 'No Blame' Policy.
I wish we really did have a "No Blame" policy. If we did car drivers would pay the same as us.

[swbarnett]

So? Why get so morbid and said because some motorcyclists killed themselves..???

They were just having some fun on their bikes... and apparently any mishaps along the way are worth it.

www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=85594

"We are fragile little beings in the scheme of things and
man, when we hit something hard, our fleshy little bits get
hurt a lot and it isn't fun. Broken bones take a long time
to heal and in cold weather it feels like they never did.

But, man, it's so worth it. I've said over and over again
and so have others, that five minutes in "the zone" on a
nice bit of road, going for it, means you live more in five
minutes than many will in a lifetime."
I just read the entire thread this came from and nowhere in there do I get any indication that beyond would do anything as stupid as what appears to have caused the incident that started this thread. Being in "the zone" does not mean you have a death wish. Unless you know beyond personally and can attest to the contrary I suggest that you refrain from reading things into his writing that simply aren't there.

[awayatc]

First and foremost my heartfelt condolences to the families and friends of those involved....

In regards to some other posts on this thread....:

Life's full of challenges ,chores ,pleasures and dangers
Having limitations is not a problem,
Not being aware of them, (or ignoring them) is......
Ride your own ride
Enjoy yourselves!

[Elysium]

Latest update is a married couple on a triumph(assuming a Rocket here) collided with three Jap bikes while attempting an over-taking manoeuvre. A lot of people without loved ones because a simple manoeuvre wasn't done correctly.

Sad day made worse with a volunteer firefighter loosing his life trying to respond to an accident as well.:no:

[RentaTriumph]

Latest update is a married couple on a triumph(assuming a Rocket here) collided with three Jap bikes while attempting an over-taking manoeuvre. A lot of people without loved ones because a simple manoeuvre wasn't done correctly.

Sad day made worse with a volunteer firefighter loosing his life trying to respond to an accident as well.:no:

Looked to me last night like an early T140 Bonneville possibly Purple and white tank. Said the couple riding the bike who were killed had recently married. Seems one of them had been married before and left a child behind.

[Armitage Shanks]

Only found out about the crash this morning . I'd been through that area only an hour before on the way back from Akaroa. Will say the conditions were excellent but the traffic was busy and a lot of them tourists, campervans etc. Doe'snt take long to get frustrated and attempt something like what happened, in this case it all went horribly wrong. Damn! Condolences to all affected here.

[Beemer]

Condolences to the innocent riders/pillions who lost their lives in this crash - not really what I would class as an accident.

The latest from Stuff - http://www.stuff.co.nz/4804409a11.html

A male motorcyclist who tried to overtake three cars caused a four-motorcycle pile-up that killed three people and injured another three yesterday.

The crash occured about 4.30pm on SH75 between Taitapu, about 16km southwest of Christchurch, and Motukarara.

Police described the crash scene on SH75 at 4pm yesterday as looking like a war zone with debris strewn across the road.

Both the man and his passenger, his wife, died at the scene. The couple were recently married and police were last night trying to contact both families, including the man's ex-wife and child.

They had been riding a Triumph motorcycle towards Christchurch when the overtaking manoeuvre went wrong and they collided with three Japanese-brand motorcycles travelling in the opposite direction towards Akaroa. A male rider in this group died and his female passenger is in Christchurch Hospital critically injured. Another female rider received minor injuries and a third male motorcyclist, who rode through the crash, escaped without injury.

[Okey Dokey]

Aaahh no, this is not good to hear. Heartfelt condolences to the families involved in this tragedy.

[NodMan]

heartfelt condolences to all involved,
not the time for conjecture but you can only choose who you ride with but none of us have control on what is coming the other way. R.I.P. those that have left us, please ride safe everyone whose still here!

[TOTO]

Sad Story. RIP to the riders.

Does anyone have information if any of the riders involved were Kbers ? :(

[Mully Clown]

Looks like a modern red Bonneville took quite a large hit.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10549843
http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/motorbike-fatalities-reminder-2430495

Roads sure were busy out there yesterday. Possibly a case of "sorry mate, didn't see you" by the sounds of it.

[dipshit]

http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/motorbike-fatalities-reminder-2430495

"Kirk says the best survival method is to learn and practice all you can about road riding."

Yet accidents like this are the result of poor judgments... not skills.

[portokiwi]

My heart goes out to all their family and friends. This is a sad moment for all involved.
RIP to those that passed away.

Thats a fantastic ride too.:weep:

Its a good reminder for the rest of us.

[Conquiztador]

My sincere Condolences to riders and their families.

Looked like a older model Bonnie, and did I see a GN there?

PLEASE stay safe and if in doubt DON"T DO IT!

[fizbin]

Lead story on TV3 news was of Christmas road toll that this afternoon included a bike fatality in the Akaroa area. Condolences to families.

Following story regarding motorcycle accident rate and ACC claims up.... Here we go :(

Film footage of Akaroa accident coming up (after 6.20)

Condolences to all those involved from me and my family.
RIP brothers and sisters may your souls sing forever

[ducatilover]

my condolences to all involved. thats a tragic thing to happen

[racerhead]

RIP

Saddens me to think of the family's

Stay safe out there

[Woody2]

Condolences to the families as well, unfortunately at times we all make mistakes whether riding the bike or driving a car, I guess if we all take a moment and think with a clarity before we act it wouldn't be a bad thing.

[Butch]

OK, here we go... It was a Male and his wife riding a Triumph that overtook head on into 3 Japanese bikes...
Heres the thread...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4804409a11.html

[mashman]

Whew, glad it's not my friends!!! sad for the families that have lost loved ones!!! RIP

[JMemonic]

Sad to hear, shame to loose folks this way.

Lots I could say about this but not going to, not the place or time, others would do well to remember this.

[gammaguy]

i live near where the crash was.i made a conscious decision yesterday NOT to ride,there were too many idiots on the road,on four and two wheels.(i know,they all came roaring past my place like always)

I get pissed off like everyone else being stuck behind campervans trucks etc.but experience has taught me to not overtake unless it is completely safe,with full visibility ahead.

like a few others on here,theres a lot more i could say,but i will leave it there.

My sincere condolences to all involved

[916Senna]

This is not good news, A very good friend of mine was the innocent victim, his wife is in intensive care with internal and spinal inhuries, they were aboard the Suzuki Boulevard that was hit head on. His brother was in front and narrowly avoided the triumph rider......a very sad day with two young kids left without a father.

[BuellBunny]

We wre riding on that road at that time and must hAVE JUST MISSED IT!!! It was VERY windy that day along that road and freaked us out as well. We actually were talking about how the wind can make passing and cornering very dangerous as you line up the corner and a big gust completely screws up your plans... freaky!!

[smurfee]

Condolences
RIP

[true-to-life]

Condolences to all the families.

Please take care out there every one.

[LittleAngel]

Aww this is very sad.:(

RIP and condolences to the families..

At this time of year it just reminds us to take it easy and the goal is to reach the destination however slow it might be...

[AllanB]

Its a dam fine piece of road. I flagged riding it yesterday due to the traffic (it goes past my place on the way out there) - we heard the police and ambulance.

As I said a fine hooning road with plenty of high speed corners - I ride the area with a bit of caution when considering passing - often there is a comfortable amount of room for a bike to squirt past, but on any high bike road you also need to allow for the possibility of another bike coming the other way at high speed.

[jtzzr]

R.I.P Bikers ,and condolences to their families.

[Patrick]

We wre riding on that road at that time and must hAVE JUST MISSED IT!!! It was VERY windy that day along that road and freaked us out as well. We actually were talking about how the wind can make passing and cornering very dangerous as you line up the corner and a big gust completely screws up your plans... freaky!!

Overtaking three cars at the time, on a bend, played more of a part than the wind did....


This is not good news, A very good friend of mine was the innocent victim, his wife is in intensive care with internal and spinal inhuries, they were aboard the Suzuki Boulevard that was hit head on. His brother was in front and narrowly avoided the triumph rider......a very sad day with two young kids left without a father.

All the best to the families of the innocents involved. I hope the mum recovers well enough to be with her little ones....

[Mikkel]

How sad, very nasty stuff.


While I have sympathy for all involved, this could have been avoided if everyone had left their overtaking to straight stretches of road with good visibility.

...of which there are plenty on said road.


Its a dam fine piece of road.

It is indeed. I am sure we can agree that since this is indeed the case there are also a lot of people using it every weekend. Some of them using it in a manner that is well beyond the grey area of moderate speeding... something I am all for given time and place.

Between trailered boats, boy racers and bikers the Akaroa road needs to be treated with a bit more respect than what it usually is being afforded - and that's not just the hills either. Truth be told I am sometimes surprised that there isn't even more carnage on that road than there is. Personally I've given up on riding that road during the "rushhours" - mid to late morning and mid to late afternoon.

[Paulus]

We have just come back from Akaroa and saw the site. It is not where you'd expect it to be and the corner in question is of very gentle radius and with pretty good visibility (over the hedges when sitting up on a bike). Nasty to see. Very sad.

[blairh]

So it's fairly clear what happened here, it's really sad. But I think it needs to be a reminder to every biker that as they say, we're 18 times more likely to die on the roads than our caged friends.

While this was a tragic event, it was not an accident.

If the corner is blind, you don't pass. If the corner isn't blind and you can see vehicles coming towards you, you don't pass. If you're not 100% sure you have enough room, you don't pass.

It has to be said that this guy's impatientness has taken 3 lives and effected the lives of many others forever.

I know we're not into the blame-game on here, but I definitely do think that we all need to realise that the split second decisions we make on the road can have huge consequences. Any one of us could have been in that innocent group of bikers riding towards him.

Be safe out there people... it's really not worth passing if you're not 100% sure.. there are so many wide open straights on that road...

[AllanB]

Weird thing about the written reports is the specifics of the offender riding a Triumph and the poor buggers who got hit riding Japanese bikes. Weird, WTF does it matter what they were riding?

[Pussy]

So it's fairly clear what happened here, it's really sad. But I think it needs to be a reminder to every biker that as they say, we're 18 times more likely to die on the roads than our caged friends.

While this was a tragic event, it was not an accident.

If the corner is blind, you don't pass. If the corner isn't blind and you can see vehicles coming towards you, you don't pass. If you're not 100% sure you have enough room, you don't pass.

It has to be said that this guy's impatientness has taken 3 lives and effected the lives of many others forever.

I know we're not into the blame-game on here, but I definitely do think that we all need to realise that the split second decisions we make on the road can have huge consequences. Any one of us could have been in that innocent group of bikers riding towards him.

Be safe out there people... it's really not worth passing if you're not 100% sure.. there are so many wide open straights on that road...

In a nutshell.... :niceone:

[danchop]

has total blame on the sole bikers been made official?the other group may have been comming towards them at a great deal of knots?

[blairh]

has total blame on the sole bikers been made official?the other group may have been comming towards them at a great deal of knots?

Doesn't matter what speed they were going. He passed, there was oncoming traffic. Tragic.

[blairh]

Riders have been named - http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10549889&ref=rss

[Tank]

Sad to read about this.

A good reminder that as bikers we need to ride defensibly.

When riding roads like SH16 or the coro loop - Im more concerned about other bikers than I am about cars:nono:

We can only hope that this is the last fatality of the summer - but sadly Im sure it wont be.

Ride safe, to the conditions, environment and your ability people.

[Titanium]

Double solid yellow lines mean something ......

RIP.

Been there, seen that ........ watching it on the news is pale in comparison to actually living it!

[Armitage Shanks]

Don't know the full details yet so I stand to be corrected. Said Triumph Rider was going North and into about 20 kts of headwind. 3 Cars he overtook ? With a pillion thats a long way into the breeze with X amount of power. Hmmm

The road between Taitapu and Motukarara is flat but curvey, unlike any road I know. Lot's of room to wind it up but, as soon as you do there's a 65km/h sign then...open the wrist for a minute or so same again .It's a magic road to ride and further over to Little River and Akaroa but.

I was coming back about an hour before the crash and noticed the head wind even on my 'Busa where 3 cars is a little easier maybe. You should factor winds as you ride of course.

Again, Condolences to those concerned and a wake up call to all, and I'm on the gas tommorrow on the same road. All Booked and fingers crossed.

AS

[crystalball]

:bye: R.I.P
Ride in the forever wind.

[Genestho]

Stink. RIP. Condolences to families...thoughts with the survivors and children.

[Kiwi Graham]

A tragic accident made worse by the time of year. sincere condolences to all involved/affected. RIP

[Ms Piggy]

Very sad news - condolences to those who will miss the dead.

We've just come back from spending Christmas in ChCh and I spent any time in the car looking longingly at riders I saw in the last few days.

I have ridden that road (a few years back) and it's a lovely piece of road but does have lots of cagers on it.

[Butch]

has total blame on the sole bikers been made official?the other group may have been comming towards them at a great deal of knots?

One of the oncomming bikes was a Suzuki Boulivard, probably just cruising with thier mates and probably not at a great rate of knots...

[98tls]

One of the oncomming bikes was a Suzuki Boulivard which, no offence intended, dont really do a great rate of knots...

I too was involved in a motorbike vs motorbike head on up the port hills back in 1991 and I was the innocent party on my own side of the road, wasnt even speeding either... Sometimes theres just no where to go... And yeah, its scary as hell Typical KB,you would have to be deaf/mute not to have heard of yet another tragedy involving a motorcyclist but its not enough to have simply put tributes it has to be taken apart and analysed by everyone bar those that were there :zzzz:No offence intended mate but this isnt about you and wtf go look up the top speed of an M10.

[madbikeboy]

No comments from me at all. Just sad to see more bikers dead.

Ride safe.

[NighthawkNZ]

One of the oncomming bikes was a Suzuki Boulivard which, no offence intended, dont really do a great rate of knots...

Obviously fast enough to kill...

[scumdog]

Obviously fast enough to kill...

Speed never kills...:shifty:

[NighthawkNZ]

Speed never kills...:shifty:

Oh right its the sudden stop... my bad

[scumdog]

Obviously fast enough to kill...

Speed never kills...:shifty:

But bad decisions can.........

[fireliv]

Was really gutted to hear about this. My deepest sympathy to the families of those involved.

No point focusing on who was at fault, cant take back time. All we can do is remember and learn.

RIP

[Swoop]

No point focusing on who was at fault...
That certainly didn't stop last night's ranting by a certain few.
Not having facts to go on, does not stop some around here.

[fire eyes]

My sincere condolences to the familes :(

[thommo77]

Sad as.
However, I was taking the car over to Blenheim today and was dismayed to see this clown on a Triumph (with a pillion) overtake a line of cars by crossing a yellow centre line towards us and on our side of the road. If I hadn't moved to the left, the road toll may have been higher tonight.........
It's dicks like him/her giving bike-haters more ammo!

[monkey99]

Condolences to al the family and friends of these victims :(

..Such a terrible waste

I hope that the KB'ers down south are able where possible to show respect (if allowed) at the funerals.

[Kittyhawk]

RIP to those lost doing what they loved, now riding high in the sky forever and beyond, looking down upon us.

My heart goes out to friends and families.

:grouphug:

[trump-lady]

My dad was 1 minute behind this crash and very well could have been him. Im angry......160 passing on blind corner 5 cars. Result is children fatherless and possibly motherless.

It appears we have to now prepare for riders coming towards us on blind corners at high speeds.

[dipshit]

My dad was 1 minute behind this crash and very well could have been him. Im angry......160 passing on blind corner 5 cars. Result is children fatherless and possibly motherless.

Just say "RIP rider, our thoughts are with the families" and like a magic spell everything will be okay again and back to business as usual.

If fact copy-and-paste this somewhere handy so you can use it next weekend without having to go to the trouble of typing it out again.

[Fatt Max]

Weird thing about the written reports is the specifics of the offender riding a Triumph and the poor buggers who got hit riding Japanese bikes. Weird, WTF does it matter what they were riding?

Dead right mate, who had the gaul to write that?

Bike type dont matter, this is a tragedy plain and simple.

My family and I send our deepest condolences, jeez, take care out there everyone.

[blairh]

No point focusing on who was at fault, cant take back time. All we can do is remember and learn.
RIP

I think learning is the key here. If reading about this makes one person out there think twice before pulling out on a dodgy pass, then it's saved lives.


If fact copy-and-paste this somewhere handy so you can use it next weekend without having to go to the trouble of typing it out again.

You've hit the nail on the head. I don't see why people here are too PC to just sit back and say, wait a minute, this should never have happened, there's absolutely no excuse for it and innocent lives were lost. All it takes is for us all to just breath a few more times before passing...

[Tank]

One of the oncomming bikes was a Suzuki Boulivard which, no offence intended, dont really do a great rate of knots...


yeah - because if you get hit by a Jap bike weighing 200 kg doing 80km head on you are going to just get up and walk away?

Using that logic - you wont get hurt by riding into a tree - after all thats stationary.

[denill]

It appears we have to now prepare for riders coming towards us on blind corners at high speeds.

It is timely to comment - you always have needed to prepare for riders (and cars and trucks etc.) coming towards us on blind corners at high speeds........

[Big Dave]

One of the oncomming bikes was a Suzuki Boulivard which, no offence intended, dont really do a great rate of knots...


They haven't got great cornering clearance - but the 109s are wicked fast.

[fatbikez]

RIP To them. What kind of bikes were they riding?

[Beemer]

Double solid yellow lines mean something ......

That is exactly what I thought when I saw the crash site on the news last night. Regardless of whether he had enough visibility and thought the overtaking manoeuvre was safe, he obviously crossed into the oncoming lane at some point. Double yellow lines ARE there for a reason and it's a real tragedy that this was not taken into account by this rider.

Someone said something about the speed of the oncoming riders - which I feel is totally irrelevant. If they were replaced with a truck and trailer unit doing 80kph the overtaking rider would still have been killed. It would not have been easy for the riders he hit to avoid something in THEIR lane that was probably going faster than them in any case.

I don't want to get into the blame game either, but the facts appear to support one rider overtaking in a spot he shouldn't have been overtaking in and unfortunately taking out innocent riders at the same time.

[mdnzz]

RIP to those lost, ride forever in the wind

[Paulus]

Double yellow lines ARE there for a reason and it's a real tragedy that this was not taken into account by this rider.




Guys, there are no double yellow lines there. If you want to see the crash location point Google Earth to 43 deg 41 min 49 sec South and 172 deg 33 min 54 sec East.

[Mully]

RIP and condolences to all concerned.

Guys (and girls), be careful out there. Take a moment before you twist the throttle a bit more.

[AllanB]

I think learning is the key here. I don't see why people here are too PC to just sit back and say, wait a minute, this should never have happened, there's absolutely no excuse for it and innocent lives were lost. ...

THERE WAS NO ACCIDENT HERE

Having ridden the road this morning, and doubling back to figure it out, I can only conclude that the Triumph rider had thoroughly left his brain on holiday.

Unfortunately at the point of impact (blind corner, wrong side of the road) the poor innocents did not stand a chance - regardless of speed or type of bike. It could just as easily been a bunch of cyclists (those buggers take up all the road around this area :angry:) he plowed through.

I also say spare a thought to the families of lost ones killed this summer in car-car crashes. Often an entire immediate family is wiped out.

I'll repeat.
THERE WAS NO ACCIDENT HERE

[Sparrowhawk]

I also say spare a thought to the families of lost ones killed this summer in car-car crashes. Often an entire immediate family is wiped out.



I agree Allan - I saw a funeral round the corner from me yesterday. I always find it really sad the amount of needless tragedy at this time of year, that's supposed to be a relaxing family time.

My thoughts are with all the families affected over this last weekend, especially the kids involved with this one.

[danchop]

so i have been on not many kb rides,but on the ones ive been on i have seen double yellow line passing,blind corner passing etc,no accidents yet!but what do you do?do you walz on up to them at a stop and tell them the stupity of it,let it ride or what?

[riffer]

so i have been on not many kb rides,but on the ones ive been on i have seen double yellow line passing,blind corner passing etc,no accidents yet!but what do you do?do you walz on up to them at a stop and tell them the stupity of it,let it ride or what?

Unfortunately very few people like to be told they ride like muppets. The right thing to do is, of course, to point it out and suggest ways they could improve their riding.

Trouble is, you're likely to get a smack in the teeth or a reputation as a holier-than-thou creep.

Which of course is a good reason to avoid a lot of organised rides, so you either:

a) don't have to tell others they ride like muppets with a death wish; or
b) have someone point it out to you.

[Titanium]

so i have been on not many kb rides,but on the ones ive been on i have seen double yellow line passing,blind corner passing etc,no accidents yet!but what do you do?do you walz on up to them at a stop and tell them the stupity of it,let it ride or what?

Vote with ya feet, let them go ahead and be temporary NZr's.

Telling them about it will do diddly squat, because they are so good.

My first and last large group ride was the 2nd December 2006, nuff said.

[AllanB]

so i have been on not many kb rides,but on the ones ive been on i have seen double yellow line passing,blind corner passing etc,no accidents yet!but what do you do?do you walz on up to them at a stop and tell them the stupity of it,let it ride or what?

Just get out of their way - the tossers will probably come onto KB and start bitching about your bike having chicken-strips. :devil2:

[FJRider]

Ride with those you can trust to be behind, or in front of you. If you can't... dont.

[FJRider]

yeah - because if you get hit by a Jap bike weighing 200 kg doing 80km head on you are going to just get up and walk away?

Using that logic - you wont get hurt by riding into a tree - after all thats stationary.

The speed you travel at is not as important as impact speed... your speed plus speed of oncoming vehicle... the numbers build up rapidly...

[humphrt]

very sorry for all families involved.

have nothing to say about his riding because i'll be the first to admit that there have been times when ive not done the smartest things on a bike. so lets let it be a lesson to all to think before twisting your wrist that little bit further.

[Patrick]

No point focusing on who was at fault, cant take back time. All we can do is remember and learn.

RIP

Learn from the faults and mistakes then... The whole point in a fatal crash investigation is on focusing who is at fault and what was at fault, so others can learn from it.


My dad was 1 minute behind this crash and very well could have been him. Im angry......160 passing on blind corner 5 cars. Result is children fatherless and possibly motherless.

It appears we have to now prepare for riders coming towards us on blind corners at high speeds.

Unless they are some certain KBers, coz that shit will never happen to them....


THERE WAS NO ACCIDENT HERE

Having ridden the road this morning, and doubling back to figure it out, I can only conclude that the Triumph rider had thoroughly left his brain on holiday.

Unfortunately at the point of impact (blind corner, wrong side of the road) the poor innocents did not stand a chance - regardless of speed or type of bike. It could just as easily been a bunch of cyclists (those buggers take up all the road around this area :angry:) he plowed through.

I also say spare a thought to the families of lost ones killed this summer in car-car crashes. Often an entire immediate family is wiped out.

I'll repeat.
THERE WAS NO ACCIDENT HERE

"Accident" is a crap term. Most "Accidents" are "crashes" caused by shit riders/drivers.


so i have been on not many kb rides,but on the ones ive been on i have seen double yellow line passing,blind corner passing etc,no accidents yet!but what do you do?do you walz on up to them at a stop and tell them the stupity of it,let it ride or what?

Always a tough call.

Seen a few "moves" myself which are unlawful, but nothing to make alarm bells ring enough to have words. When that happens, they will not only get words, but also pieces of paper, delivered personally, of course....:sunny:

But then again, those I ride with know me and wouldn't put me in that position.

[scumdog]

"Accident" is a crap term. Most "Accidents" are "crashes" caused by shit riders/drivers.


True.
An accident is like when a tree falls suddenly on front of your bike, not when somebody takes a mental free-turn and starts passing cars on a left-hand bend...

[Cross Rider]

That is exactly what I thought when I saw the crash site on the news last night. Regardless of whether he had enough visibility and thought the overtaking manoeuvre was safe, he obviously crossed into the oncoming lane at some point. Double yellow lines ARE there for a reason and it's a real tragedy that this was not taken into account by this rider.

Someone said something about the speed of the oncoming riders - which I feel is totally irrelevant. If they were replaced with a truck and trailer unit doing 80kph the overtaking rider would still have been killed. It would not have been easy for the riders he hit to avoid something in THEIR lane that was probably going faster than them in any case.

I don't want to get into the blame game either, but the facts appear to support one rider overtaking in a spot he shouldn't have been overtaking in and unfortunately taking out innocent riders at the same time.
Rider error, you can live the life of a saint but do one really dumb thing and thats what you will be remembered for. I am so angry and sad at such senseless loss of life.

[Gizzit]

True.
An accident is like when a tree falls suddenly on front of your bike, not when somebody takes a mental free-turn and starts passing cars on a left-hand bend...

I totally agree with you there SD. This was avoidable.
I'm not big on pointing the finger at people, but from the details available so far, this is obviously one rider's fault.

We all need to take a serious look at how we ride, and learn from this tragedy, to have anything positive come out of it.

My heartfelt condolences to those family and friends affected by this sad event.

[Beemer]

Guys, there are no double yellow lines there. If you want to see the crash location point Google Earth to 43 deg 41 min 49 sec South and 172 deg 33 min 54 sec East.

Apologies if this is correct - they showed a sweeping left-hand bend on tv last night with debris all over the road, and there were double yellow lines down the middle. Maybe where he started his overtaking manoeuvre there were no yellow lines but they obviously weren't that far away.

As for living the life of a saint and being remembered for one mistake, spare a thought for the innocent parties he took with him. I think I'd be pissed off with anyone who killed my loved ones through stupidity, even if they were 'a really nice guy' most of the time.

AllanB, Patrick and Scumdog are right - accidents are unforeseen events, not ones where the possibility of something going wrong could reasonably be predicted and avoided.

[Armitage Shanks]

Anyone know what model Triumph was involved ? Not that it matters , I read he was overtaking a line of 8 cars with a corner coming up, not 3 cars .

What a bloody shame....for everyone, car drivers included .

[NighthawkNZ]

Guys, there are no double yellow lines there.

Just because there is no yellow doesn't mean its an automatic reason that it is ok to pass on a corner, (especially one you can't see around it)

[Jantar]

Guys, there are no double yellow lines there. If you want to see the crash location point Google Earth to 43 deg 41 min 49 sec South and 172 deg 33 min 54 sec East.
The pics on TV and the ones in the paper show double yellow lines with motorcycles on both sides of the road.

[FJRider]

Google Earth is a few years old...

[munterk6]

This whole event has brought home to us all how every time we swing a leg over our bikes, it could be the last...
I went past the site this morning and a fire truck was parked up with several firepeople in it. Dunno what they were doing there, but it made for an uneasy feeling as I slowed up to checkout the situation.
I was mindful of the tragedy that had taken place two days ago while I was riding towards Tai Tapu at legal (sensible) speed, when suddenly a guy on a Harley flew past me at approx 140kmh and passed a line of cars....yep :angry2:
Sad thing is, these wake up calls we have are short lived, and the memories fade, and we go back to the same shit before long:eek5::bye:
Its the people we leave behind that hurt for soooooo long:crybaby:

[Muppet]

This whole event has brought home to us all how every time we swing a leg over our bikes, it could be the last...
I went past the site this morning and a fire truck was parked up with several firepeople in it. Dunno what they were doing there, but it made for an uneasy feeling as I slowed up to checkout the situation.
I was mindful of the tragedy that had taken place two days ago while I was riding towards Tai Tapu at legal (sensible) speed, when suddenly a guy on a Harley flew past me at approx 140kmh and passed a line of cars....yep :angry2:
Sad thing is, these wake up calls we have are short lived, and the memories fade, and we go back to the same shit before long:eek5::bye:
Its the people we leave behind that hurt for soooooo long:crybaby:

Yes I was on a trip a few years ago with a group of like minded dudes riding towards Takaka having just come over the hill. Suddenly an idiot on a Harley rode past me at about 120 km/h, his handlebar missing mine (according to those behind me) by a centimetre. I never knew he was there until he passed me. Then as we came up to a blind right hand corner, he was going too fast over corrected and ended up riding on the wrong side of the road. You can behave yourself on the road, but it's tossers like these that can ruin your day

[Gremlin]

I read he was overtaking a line of 8 cars with a corner coming up, not 3 cars .
I wouldn't believe much... From my own experience, stories grow, people spout bullshit without actually being there/knowing facts...

I'd take the yellow lines with a pinch of salt as well. They're plastered everywhere, plenty of reasonable places to pass (but you'd break the law). Also plenty of places with yellow lines you shouldn't pass.

Since I don't know anything about the circumstances, I'm not passing judgement, but I do feel for the innocents.

[jrandom]

I never knew he was there until he passed me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Situational_awareness

[Ms Topo]

My thoughts are with the families at this hard time.

[T.W.R]

The pics on TV and the ones in the paper show double yellow lines with motorcycles on both sides of the road.


??? they do ???

The footage where yellows were shown was the Paekakariki Hill prang

Where the accident happened would be the stupidest place to pass anything on that stretch of road irrespective of yellows or not, particularly when heading towards ChCh because of partially obscured vision of the on-coming traffic by a motley hedge & randomly spaced trees, plus the corner prior to where the prang happened (heading towards Akaroa) is one of the tightest and is completely blind so there's no view of on-coming traffic till they're on the short straight before the sweeper.

Having talked to a person who knew both parties involved they're pretty much are scratching their head as to why, it's a WTF moment that caught innocents in the carnage :oi-grr:

It could have been avoided, a moments ill discipline & poor judgement has caused a lot of grief and pain for plenty of people.

[Jantar]

...
The footage where yellows were shown was the Paekakariki Hill prang.....

Well that pic certainly shows no yellow lines. It just shows how the media can give a false impression because on TV1 they were talking about the Canterbury crash and flashed up an image of bikes on both sides of the road with double yellow lines in between. I naturally assumed that the image was of the Canterbury crash.

Thanks for that pic, it shows it much better.

[Charlie41]

Condolences to the family and friends! My thoughts are with everyone at this sad time

[Beemer]

??? they do ???

The footage where yellows were shown was the Paekakariki Hill prang...

Sorry, but not the shot I saw on TV1 news - if they were taken on the Paekakariki Hill I'd be amazed as I didn't recognise the area. The shot I saw showed a large sweeping left-hand bend (just as they described where the guy overtook) with double yellow lines down the middle. You could see at least three bikes in the foreground so I am pretty sure it was the crash near Christchurch.

I rode out to the start of the Coast to Coast a few weekends ago with my husband to hand out flyers for our Manfeild Day and was doing 100-110kph on the road out to Himatangi. Of course that didn't stop the two arseholes who pulled out and overtook me on a blind corner. And people wonder why I did the ride back in 1999 and haven't been tempted to do it again.

The sad thing is, no matter how good a rider you are, you can't always prevent yourself being taken out by someone like this. I've personally witnessed behaviour like this on rides and the person involved was spoken to after each incident but his view was he was a good rider and if others felt in danger, it was because they were not such good riders. In the end we had to ban him from the rides as people who had been riding for more than 20 years were too scared to ride with him. So unfortunately not everyone will learn from an incident like this and alter their behaviour accordingly.

[quickbuck]

True.
An accident is like when a tree falls suddenly on front of your bike....

One of the True (and very few) "Accidents" over the last year.
Can't really think of many more off the top of my head...

The photos of that one will be etched in my mind forever.

I'm not going to pass judgement on the incident that started this thread, as many are guilty of the same poor decisions that may have been made, and have been lucky to get away with it.

RIP to all involved, and condolences to the families.

[prettybillie]

Condolences to the families.

Whats next?? TV crews waiting on the hot spots with camers at the ready? It's so disrespecful to play footage like that.

I totally agree

[SPman]

"RIP rider, our thoughts are with the families"

cut & paste done.........

I know the road well (lived

at Motukarara for 5 yrs - worked in ChCh).

No excuse for what happened!

My condolences to those affected by others idiocy. TLDV8

[Elysium]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Situational_awareness

Some bikes also have a "flasher" button that makes the head light go to high beam when held down. Officaly its function is to make people in front aware you're passing. But unfortunately I find that drivers think I'm trying to get them to stop, or something wrong with their car or that I'm annoying them with my lights. So I just use the old simply rules of looking behind, indicate etc...

[T.W.R]

Sorry, but not the shot I saw on TV1 news - if they were taken on the Paekakariki Hill I'd be amazed as I didn't recognise the area. The shot I saw showed a large sweeping left-hand bend (just as they described where the guy overtook) with double yellow lines down the middle. You could see at least three bikes in the foreground so I am pretty sure it was the crash near Christchurch.



:yawn: what I saw when it comes to footage of the accident scenes concerning yellow lines was a up hill piece of road, a piece of truck wheel guard and a red bike lying in the middle of the lane :yes:

The area where the prang happened on the Akers Highway runs across the mouth of one of the many wee valleys, isn't up hill or have bush converging down the roadside unless I've been missing something for the last 20+ yrs of riding through there ;)

[MaxB]

Using the street view in Google maps gives a pretty good idea of what the road is like (SH75). Did not see any double yellows (?)

Been on that road many times in the past. What a tradegy.

[Beemer]

:yawn: what I saw when it comes to footage of the accident scenes concerning yellow lines was a up hill piece of road, a piece of truck wheel guard and a red bike lying in the middle of the lane :yes:

The area where the prang happened on the Akers Highway runs across the mouth of one of the many wee valleys, isn't up hill or have bush converging down the roadside unless I've been missing something for the last 20+ yrs of riding through there ;)

I just had a look at the TV3 clip that was shown on Sunday night and it shows the bikes spread over an area with no yellow lines - so I don't know what was shown on TV1 (can't find it online or on their website to check) as that did have bikes in the photo and there were yellow lines. Even without yellow lines, the overtaking manoeuvre was obviously not safe if it put others at risk and claimed innocent lives.

Here's another report of the accident, from the viewpoint of the innocent victim's family: http://www.stuff.co.nz/4804943a11.html

[quickbuck]

Some bikes also have a "flasher" button that makes the head light go to high beam when held down. Officaly its function is to make people in front aware you're passing. But unfortunately I find that drivers think I'm trying to get them to stop, or something wrong with their car or that I'm annoying them with my lights. So I just use the old simply rules of looking behind, indicate etc...


That would be "Almost All...."
In some countries the use of the "Flasher" Button is mandatory before passing the vehicle in front.
Unfortunately the hollier than thou attitude of NZ drivers means they take offence when this function of the vehicle is used.
Notice even cages have the same thing on the headlight stalk?

Not to worry though, as it is apparent not everybody checks their mirrors anyway.

[Ocean1]

That would be "Almost All...."
In some countries the use of the "Flasher" Button is mandatory before passing the vehicle in front.
Unfortunately the hollier than thou attitude of NZ drivers means they take offence when this function of the vehicle is used.
Notice even cages have the same thing on the headlight stalk?

Not to worry though, as it is apparent not everybody checks their mirrors anyway.

I believe the reason it's not commonly used as you describe here is that it's illegal to do so.

[Elysium]

I believe the reason it's not commonly used as you describe here is that it's illegal to do so.

What, really? Seems kinda stupid.

[FJRider]

I believe the reason it's not commonly used as you describe here is that it's illegal to do so.

So why is a vehicle manufactured with a device that is illegal to use... :innocent:

[Ocean1]

So why is a vehicle manufactured with a device that is illegal to use... :innocent:

Because they're not sold just here, dude. And there's other, valid purposes for which the function can be used.

[far queue]

So why is a vehicle manufactured with a device that is illegal to use... :innocent:You mean like the ability to exceed 100kph? :whistle:

[FJRider]

You mean like the ability to exceed 100kph? :whistle:

GOOD POINT... Perhaps speed limiters should be fitted to all bikes/cars... :innocent:

[Armitage Shanks]

Mid 40's, Born again Rider ? ....Triumph retro machine ...is there a theme here ?

No more comments until I establish ... had the rider been drinking ?

I was in Akaroa that day and left earlier than the crash, only point I have is there were a couple or four Triumphs stopped and lounging in the good weather , most of them gave me a wave or a nod ....as Bikers do in Akaroa...

[Richi]

I think learning is the key here. If reading about this makes one person out there think twice before pulling out on a dodgy pass, then it's saved lives.



You've hit the nail on the head. I don't see why people here are too PC to just sit back and say, wait a minute, this should never have happened, there's absolutely no excuse for it and innocent lives were lost. All it takes is for us all to just breath a few more times before passing...


OK Im relatively new to riding. Today going around the roads near governers bay (near the accident) I was about to overtake a F***ing slow cage. At the last minute i sat back into my lane and decided to wait for a better place to take him. I had this incedint in my head at that particular time, funny thing is, a harley came around the corner in question up ahead almost the same time i pulled back in. We would have met wheel to wheel I reckon.

All im gettin at with this is, with all the different point of views nobody cares about whos fault it is/was. People need to learn about things like this. I never would have considered a bike coming around a corner ahead at speed, just a cage at normal cage speed, if not for this thread. I am still deeply saddened by bikers down, no matter where or why.

[Mom]

There is a road rule that says you must have 100m of clear space during an overtaking manouver. Oncoming traffic includes motorcycles, not just cars.

[Richi]

There is a road rule that says you must have 100m of clear space during an overtaking manouver. Oncoming traffic includes motorcycles, not just cars.

I guess this one is forgotten once the 35 Questionairre is done when ur 15 I usually dont overtake people when im in my car, but the bikes a wee bit different. U can get out an in so much quicker so it makes it "safer" to make a passing manover. maybe thats why they call bikers "maniacs" ? I have no concern about seeing motorcycles as traffic, its jst they come up on u quicker that cars. Gave me a wakeup today about passing as i said in the previous post

[Tank]

I guess this one is forgotten once the 35 Questionairre is done when ur 15 I usually dont overtake people when im in my car, but the bikes a wee bit different. U can get out an in so much quicker so it makes it "safer" to make a passing manover. maybe thats why they call bikers "maniacs" ? I have no concern about seeing motorcycles as traffic, its jst they come up on u quicker that cars. Gave me a wakeup today about passing as i said in the previous post

PM me your address - I will send you a new keyboard with all the letters U seem to be missing :lol:

The fact seems that some bikes can't get in and out quickly enough - despite what the rider may think.

Sadly - this is why we have this tragic thread.

[Richi]

holy fuck can anyone else feel the love??





.......and another butchered thread?

omg yeah read the thread title!! I was just trying to say even though the terrible circumstances, that this has actually helped someone. I am sorry :(

[toycollector10]

I'm not going to comment directly regarding the crash until I've seen the Coroners Report in about six months time.

I put the following post up on kiwibiker on the 21st of October 2007, over a year ago..

QUOTE
I was riding today and it was just more of the same from my fellow motorcyclists.

To the guy who came up on me very, very, fast and overtook me on a left hand medium to slow bend. Why? You didn't know me from sh*t and I could have been a newby who was going to drift out and either hit you or push you into on-comming cagers. Ride with your light on too son, people will be able to see you that way.

To the two guys coming down Dyers Pass road: KEEP LEFT F****RS!

To the idiot with his fat GF on the back of his BMW who overtook me heading up Dyers Pass: KEEP LEFT. DON'T OVERTAKE ON A BLIND CORNER! DON'T CROSS THE DOUBLE YELLOW LINE ON A BLIND CORNER, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT'S A RIGHT HANDER YOU FOOL!

And on and on it goes. I don't know who the hell you are all trying to impress.

I'm always bloody unimpressed by this sort of s**t.

And that was just today.
UNQUOTE

And here's the thread just to recap. Read it and digest what the sentiments are. They have never been more relevant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=59315

[Richi]

I believe the reason it's not commonly used as you describe here is that it's illegal to do so.

OK talkin about the flashin of the high beams. On many cars is says "pass" to the direction of the headlight lever that puts the high beams on whilst the lever is held on. I NEVER knew that pulling the high beams on meant u were going to pass, however it DOES make sense that given the labelling. I never clicked. Perhaps I didnt know this because of the fact u have just said it is Illegal? anyone care to elaborate the rules on this? Im only 21 been driving 6 years and dont know wtf to do? I just (in a car) indicate and go for it foot flat till i make the pass and then hit the brakes once im back in to the speed limit. the bike i just "Lane divide" in front of cars, many car drivers move for me and like to "let me in" very nice of them

[Kiwi Graham]

The fact is sadly, fellow bikers have died doing what they enjoyed doing, regardless of who did what and when.
It should not be seen as an opportunity by Katman or anyone else to do the 'I told you so sermon'
Where is the fukin respect for those no longer here.

Isnt the perpose of this thread to inform of the tragedy, offer an opportunity for others to give there condolences and move on with respect.........FFS

[Ocean1]

OK talkin about the flashin of the high beams.

Dude, it's been years since I stumbled on that.

PM scumdog or Patrick, they might shed some light on the issue.

[chanceyy]

as Kiwi Graham above states this thread is to inform of the tragedy, & for ppl to offer their condolences.

yes the nazi mod is on duty again & off topic posts have been moved, and will continue to be moved .. so why do you not take your debate to pd where it belongs

[marty]

I believe the reason it's not commonly used as you describe here is that it's illegal to do so.


unless you can back this up with a link to the relevant legislation, I suggest you're wrong.

[Richi]

unless you can back this up with a link to the relevant legislation, I suggest you're wrong.

OK whether hes right or wrong the rode code doesnt explain, nor do road users. it would be nice to see a link one way or the other to inform motorists (like me) on what u are meant to do.

[blairh]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4804943a11.html
Yeah that really sums it up pretty well for me..

[Richi]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4804943a11.html
Yeah that really sums it up pretty well for me..

yea it sums it up but im prepared to take sides i know how people can be misread/misinterpreted my the media. I am just sad this had happend and i hope people can learn from it. I will certainly be more picky at times to overtake cars because of this. I just hope the families have the support to get through this tough time...

[Old Skool Subbie]

Yea i heard bout this the other day. Sad thing to happen. So many hurt. RIP.

Ive had an few near misses in my car with motor bikers on blind corners. It scared the Hell out of me.
I was slowing to go round a blind corner on the old Tai Tap Rd and this Motor cyclist leans and comes right into my lane. i ended up pulling up on to the grass. I was amazzed i didnt take his head off. would had only been an few cms from his helment hitting my car.

Another time was this idiot with an passager was trying to out run an cop at speed on the Summet Rd. Both times happend on blind corners. even the cop almost hit us too.

[blairh]

As I said earlier.. there's no point in us all sitting around feeling sorry for people. The point is to learn from this mistake and make sure none of us do it ourselves. That way maybe we'll save another 3 lives....

I personally think that's worth a sermon.

[Jantar]

As I said earlier.. there's no point in us all sitting around feeling sorry for people. The point is to learn from this mistake and make sure none of us do it ourselves. That way maybe we'll save another 3 lives....

I personally think that's worth a sermon.

But when a rider performs the same stupid passing move and doesn't take out 3 others at the same time, there is no sermon. So why should there be in this case?

[blairh]

But when a rider performs the same stupid passing move and doesn't take out 3 others at the same time, there is no sermon. So why should there be in this case?

Wtf?? Because 3 people died...

I think the point is, DON'T do stupid passing moves, and you won't risk killing yourself/other people. Doesn't get much simpler than that..

[Jantar]

Wtf?? Because 3 people died...

I think the point is, DON'T do stupid passing moves, and you won't risk killing yourself/other people. Doesn't get much simpler than that..

Aren't you contradicting yourself? So a sermon is needed because 3 people died as a result of a stupid passing move, yet no sermon is needed when the same move doesn't result in deaths. From this one could assume that you're saying its OK to make dangerous moves as long as no-one is killed.

Then in your very next paragraph you say "Don't do stupid passing moves, and you won't risk killing yourself/other people"

So agian I ask why a sermon in this thread, and not in any other where dangerous manouvers are involved?

[blairh]

So agian I ask why a sermon in this thread, and not in any other where dangerous manouvers are involved?

I think the difference is that we know about this one... we don't find out when most people do dumb shit. If we did, there'd be a crapload of threads on here ;)

[T.W.R]

Well I was past the accident scene this morning for a last ride of the year around the old stamping ground & decided to take a couple of pics :yes:

To cap the soap-box chanting and scape-goat witch hunt finger pointing to other site members and shed clarity on the actual piece of road here's the pics

1) The spot where the the passing would have started; the impact spot is where the 3 poplars are evenly spaced in the distance. The road follows the poplars to the end of the row (which is on the L/H side of the road) then there's a 65km/h right hander.
There's also 3 vehicles heading towards the corner behind those poplars :yes: (see how many can be seen)

2) What the line of sight would have been prior to attempting the pass :pinch:

At the time of day when the crash happened the sun would have been right in your face as you came around the corner where the pics are taken from. And there aren't any yellow lines for kms in either direction but the speed camera van has taken up residence a couple of kms closer to Tai Tapu :yes:

[MVnut]

And it's an absolute disgrace that the blood still hasn't been cleaned up. RIP to the fallen, condolences to family and friends.

[Gremlin]

Thanks TWR, that helps...

It would seem to me (and only a presumption) that the oncoming vehicles could have blended into the trees... the hedge doesn't seem high enough, but it, and the immediate backdrop of dark, and bikers penchant for dark clothing, it would seem a likely scenario? And if indeed, the overtaking biker had sunstrike, or possible sunstrike, it makes the shade of the trees even easier to hide in.

Either way, it would appear line of sight was not the best (but could have been worse)... better safe than sorry?

[T.W.R]

Thanks TWR, that helps...

It would seem to me (and only a presumption) that the oncoming vehicles could have blended into the trees... the hedge doesn't seem high enough, but it, and the immediate backdrop of dark, and bikers penchant for dark clothing, it would seem a likely scenario? And if indeed, the overtaking biker had sunstrike, or possible sunstrike, it makes the shade of the trees even easier to hide in.

Either way, it would appear line of sight was not the best (but could have been worse)... better safe than sorry?

Vehicles blend in with those trees pretty well.

[AllanB]

And it's an absolute disgrace that the blood still hasn't been cleaned up. RIP to the fallen, condolences to family and friends.


Very ture, I was surprised at the amount left over the road. I wonder if it is intentional as a warning.

It's a blind corner chaps - a dam nice one (well it was), cars do it at about 70 max, bikes.........

[Stan]

I think the difference is that we know about this one... we don't find out when most people do dumb shit. If we did, there'd be a crapload of threads on here ;)

I agree. If we all posted threads when we saw some idiot doing something stupid and dangerous, the site would be flooded and no-one would take any notice.

A tragic event like this does focus people's attention and if we can't learn something from it, we're dumb fuckers. The lesson here is pretty simple; make sure the road REALLY is clear when you're overtaking.

[scumdog]

And it's an absolute disgrace that the blood still hasn't been cleaned up. RIP to the fallen, condolences to family and friends.

I hope all riders risking things when overtaking take note and make prior arrangement re this.....:rolleyes:

[scumdog]

Vehicles blend in with those trees pretty well.

And how quick would a Truimph be when passing multi vehicles while two-up??

Passing on an laft-hand 'outside bend' has the additional danger that anything come towards you is likely to be hugging the centre-line - as the crash instigator sadly found out.

[MVnut]

On most of the bends around there you can only see the roofs of cars coming the other way because of very long grass, seeing a bike on the outside would not be easy. ....and as for the bloodstains still being there, some crap about cultural sensitivity (what a load of horseshit), and yes a formal complaint regarding the poor cleanup has been made to the 'authorities'.

[Stan]

On most of the bends around there you can only see the roofs of cars coming the other way because of very long grass, seeing a bike on the outside would not be easy. ....and as for the bloodstains still being there, some crap about cultural sensitivity (what a load of horseshit), and yes a formal complaint regarding the poor cleanup has been made to the 'authorities'.

Oh yeah, lets all have a grizzle about the poor bastards that had to clean this up. Like their job isn't shitty enough already. :(

[MVnut]

Oh yeah, lets all have a grizzle about the poor bastards that had to clean this up. Like their job isn't shitty enough already. :(

It's their job, simple as that, it should be done properly. Do you know the feeble excuse/reason that blood was left there on purpose ??? (but I won't comment more on this as the thread should not be hijacked in that way, I just thought I made a valid observation. Sorry if you disagree)

[heyjoe]

A tragic event. My sincere Condolences to riders and their families.

[ynot slow]

A tragic event. My sincere Condolences to riders and their families.

To true mate.

If the thought process from this tragedy sinks in it might save someone else.

The thing with riding or driving is we all think we are the best in the world,sure we all have the odd close call or serious whoops,most survive it.

As we all know left hand bend can mean close to the centre line,which means any traffic approaching could be doing similar,so instead of 1-2mtrs gap we end up with none,then crash.Depending on speed and vehicle(car or bike)makes the net result minor or fatal.

How often do you see a person who in your own thinking is a much better rider than yourself,either by handling the bike around corners and general riding ability maybe due to time on the bike,but if you can keep up with them they do take the odd risk,i.e just over centre line cornering(not taking 75km bend at 100km but say 120km)then thinking shit lucky noone approaching.

[AllanB]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4804943a11.html
Yeah that really sums it up pretty well for me..

That's a surprisingly good report.

One other consideration to ponder when hooning, in this particular case, in the event the Triumph rider survived this mess he caused (still killing the others) he would be spending a lengthy term in prison.

[Mully Clown]

That's a surprisingly good report.

One other consideration to ponder when hooning, in this particular case, in the event the Triumph rider survived this mess he caused (still killing the others) he would be spending a lengthy term in prison.

Right after the lengthy stay in hospital... where he came out with loss of leg movement.

[marty]

that's just it, there is no legislation for or against it - common sense prevails (hard to believe I know...)

[Ixion]

Based on the pictures I would think overtaking there to be ill advised. At most perhaps one vehicle at a time. To attempt a multi vehicle pass ending beyond the second bend I must term gross folly.

[NighthawkNZ]

I said it before and I'll say it again just because there is no yellow lines on the road doesn't mean that it okay spot to pass... on any road and or in or riding any vehicle...

When passing any vehicle you need to be 110% sure no vehicle is in any obscure spot that you may or may not be able to see... and as the road rules state you need to 100 metres clear all the way through the maneuver and you are technically not to exceed 100 kph during the maneuver. (yes I know we all exceed hence... technically)

[Muppet]

True.
An accident is like when a tree falls suddenly on front of your bike, not when somebody takes a mental free-turn and starts passing cars on a left-hand bend...

The irony!:Police:

[Armitage Shanks]

Have the drivers of the 8 ( ? ) cars been interviewed yet and what's their story ? I agree to take on 8 cars is something I've never done and never will ( unless it's on a looong straight ) :nono:

Did he plan on doing 3 cars first and slipping behind number 4 , but some wayne closed the gap and kept him out there ?

Conjecture's a great thing , must say I'm always double careful when I have my vacuum cleaner pilot sitting behind me.

[dipshit]

Did he plan on doing 3 cars first and slipping behind number 4 , but some wayne closed the gap and kept him out there ?

Yeah, those fucking cages, a!

[Patrick]

The fact is sadly, fellow bikers have died doing what they enjoyed doing, regardless of who did what and when.
It should not be seen as an opportunity by Katman or anyone else to do the 'I told you so sermon'
Where is the fukin respect for those no longer here.

Isnt the perpose of this thread to inform of the tragedy, offer an opportunity for others to give there condolences and move on with respect.........FFS

I don't see it as a "told you so" thing. The truth hurts sometimes, but some times some need to hear the truth.


as Kiwi Graham above states this thread is to inform of the tragedy, & for ppl to offer their condolences.

yes the nazi mod is on duty again & off topic posts have been moved, and will continue to be moved .. so why do you not take your debate to pd where it belongs

But surely the point of the discussion is making sure we don't get more of these threads and some learn from the bad mistakes made? (Wishful thinking perhaps, but still the point, all the same?)


As I said earlier.. there's no point in us all sitting around feeling sorry for people. The point is to learn from this mistake and make sure none of us do it ourselves. That way maybe we'll save another 3 lives....

I personally think that's worth a sermon.

+1...............

[denill]

Patrick - as a long term Biker who has survived, I strongly support your summary of this thread.

Read his post slowly and think about it.
From the tragedy some benefit may just result?? :(

[mdnzz]

we were on the same road today following a farmers ute doing between 80-85kms, when a camper van decided to overtake us both with a corner coming up, massive blind spot and fark all room for any contingency plan.
As it happens a car comes round the corner towards so that they had to serve back onto the right side of the road and regain control of their now fishtailing camper wagon.
So it seems while KB'ers understand the stupidity of such driving the rest of the world thinks they are still invulnerable in their cages and don't give a stuff about any other roads users.
At the end of the day all or any discussions on any forum will fall into a too hard to do something about basket or just fall on deaf ears.
Until people start taking responsibility for their actions, the judges get tough and criminal lawyers stop finding namby pamby PC excuses for their scumbag clients nothing will ever change.

[Katman]

What I have always hated about these threads is the fact that as soon as anyone suggests that a good, hard look be taken at any tragedy in the hope that important lessons are learned, certain moderators step in to ensure the thread is full of nothing but worthless "RIP fellow biker" posts (or the even more pathetic variant - "...........").

[Kiwi Graham]

What I have always hated about these threads is the fact that as soon as anyone suggests that a good, hard look be taken at any tragedy in the hope that important lessons are learned, certain moderators step in to ensure the thread is full of nothing but worthless "RIP fellow biker" posts (or the even more pathetic variant - "...........").

If your so keen on imposing your beliefs on others why not start your own thread about it instead of 'crashing' others. That way those who are interested in what you have to say can have you all to themselves.

[Jantar]

What I have always hated about these threads is the fact that as soon as anyone suggests that a good, hard look be taken at any tragedy in the hope that important lessons are learned, certain moderators step in to ensure the thread is full of nothing but worthless "RIP fellow biker" posts (or the even more pathetic variant - "...........").

Not so. Check the site rules. What we ask is that threads about a specific serious or fatal accident remain on topic, and do not contain any speculation or accusations that may cause hurt or consternation to the victims family.

If you wish to discuss accident cause/effect then do it in a seperate thread. Certainly use any specific event as an example if you have specific information about that accident. Otherwise keep it general.

I have already stated that in my opinion any comment on dangerous riding should be made anytime that such riding is evident and not to wait until a fatality occurs.

[dipshit]

Not so. Check the site rules. What we ask is that threads about a specific serious or fatal accident remain on topic, and do not contain any speculation or accusations that may cause hurt or consternation to the victims family.

Unless it's somehow laying the blame on f*ing cage drivers, a?

[Ixion]

What I have always hated about these threads is the fact that as soon as anyone suggests that a good, hard look be taken at any tragedy in the hope that important lessons are learned, certain moderators step in to ensure the thread is full of nothing but worthless "RIP fellow biker" posts (or the even more pathetic variant - "...........").

And so it always has been , here. I hear what you are saying, and agree with it. But I realised long ago that KB is not the place for harsh realities. It is ostrich central.

The only way that motorcycle causalties will come down is indeed objective analysis of the failings that cause crashes. So that the loiving need not repeat the mistakes of the dead. Just as they do when an aircraft crashes. But not on KB. You will always just get shouted down and moderated away. Horse, water etc; none so deaf and so on.

Just do as I did, buy some shares in Gene-O-Kleen ("Evolution you can see; keeping the gene pool kleen cince 1903").

[davereid]

I said it before and I'll say it again just because there is no yellow lines on the road doesn't mean that it okay spot to pass... on any road and or in or riding any vehicle...technically)

Yellow lines once meant that "even if you think you have adequate vision to pass, an optical illusion means that you don't"

So, I respected them although I never respected the "don't exceed 100km/hr even when passing" rule.

Now, they seem to paint no passing lines everywhere.

They are a bloody rash that bans passing in perfectly safe places, causing great hold ups behind chaps wearing bowling hats enjoying perfectly clear front views at 70 km/hr.

I am sure this has been counter productive. Drivers who can't pass in safe places, eventually pass in dangerous places.

[scumdog]

Drivers who can't pass in safe places, eventually pass in dangerous places.

The old instinct of bozos: "I can't see any danger - ergo there ain't any danger".

In the stone age that line of thought was just as fatal what with a sabre-tooth tiger being just over the ridge...somehow that gene has filtered throught to present...how I'm buggered if I know, they SHOULD have been wiped out.

[Ixion]

And, even more dangerously, they foster and engender the now common belief that if there are NO yellow lines , and you can't actually see oncoming, it is safe to pass. No matter what. A myth that can be seen even in this thread. The response of the insane yellow paint maniac is, of course, to paint more yellow lines.

Though, actually, the police and MoT admit, unofficially, that their real purpose now is to slow traffic down. To the speed of the aforesaid bowling hatted twit.

[dipshit]

In the stone age that line of thought was just as fatal what with a sabre-tooth tiger being just over the ridge...somehow that gene has filtered throught to present...how I'm buggered if I know, they SHOULD have been wiped out.

That's because Darwinism only works if you get taken out before you've had a chance to reproduce.

(and we all know what type of people have fathered children by 15)

[SixPackBack]

What I have always hated about these threads is the fact that as soon as anyone suggests that a good, hard look be taken at any tragedy in the hope that important lessons are learned, certain moderators step in to ensure the thread is full of nothing but worthless "RIP fellow biker" posts (or the even more pathetic variant - "...........").

What I hate is coonts bitching online every time someone dies on a motorcycle [a statistical certainty I might add].......get in to the real world and do some thing positive to change the perceived issues, bitching on here is totally fucken pointless<_<

[Kickaha]

bitching on here is totally fucken pointless<_<[/FONT]

Only because so many people have their heads stuck firmly up their arses about the issue

[SixPackBack]

Only because so many people have their heads stuck firmly up their arses about the issue

I call bullshit. One or two casual voices hardly speak for the entire KB community.........the continual hand wringing over biker down threads come from a very small group who spend plenty of time bitching and grandstanding without any positive real world influence.....its ugly and a complete waste of time, if anything the message [if there is one] is lost-lost in a mist of anger and stupidity with many of the threads ending up in PD [where they rightly belong].

[Katman]

get in to the real world and do some thing positive to change the perceived issues, bitching on here is totally fucken pointless<_<

I have a motorcycle workshop.

I give the same message to my customers whenever the opportunity arises.

Is that 'real world' enough for you?

[SixPackBack]

I have a motorcycle workshop.

I give the same message to my customers when the opportunity arises.

Is that 'real world' enough for you?

Cool. Yeah that is positive, but bitching continually on here is turning people away in the droves. Tackling specifics [rather than the generic 'motorcyclists are fuckwits'] would be a huge help, a good example is the recent 'situational awareness' thread-totally pointless!....generic comments do not armour the squid/newbie/returning empty nester-specific comments [with examples] delivered in a calm manner would do more in a few short posts than the chest beating, angry piss drunken posts we receive in finitum.

[Katman]

Cool. Yeah that is positive, but bitching continually on here is turning people away in the droves. Tackling specifics [rather than the generic 'motorcyclists are fuckwits'] would be a huge help, a good example is the recent 'situational awareness' thread-totally pointless!....generic comments do not armour the squid/newbie/returning empty nester-specific comments [with examples] delivered in a calm manner would do more in a few short posts than the chest beating, angry piss drunken posts we receive in finitum.

Meh, you're the only one sounding 'angry' at the moment.

[The Stranger]

Meh, you're the only one sounding 'angry' at the moment.

Good comeback there katman. Constructive criticism was offered and you return purile taunts.

Well done.

[Katman]

Good comeback there katman. Constructive criticism was offered and you return purile taunts.

Well done.

I'm pleased you're impressed Noel.

[The Stranger]

I'm pleased you're impressed Noel.

Yeah right.
Still, perhaps it could help your cause to at least consider engaging your detractors in reasoned debate when the opportunity arises. Failing to do so seriously undermines the sincerity of your message and begs the scorn it receives.

But hey who gives a shit right, replies like that clearly demonstrate that you obviously care more for the shit stir than the message.

[cruza]

Mate and me stopped at the scene in the evening on new years day. Few moments quiet time. Nice bit of road , just some poor decision making . From reading the papers I thought it happened on a "real corner", not a fairly straight bit of road with a slight kink. Just goes to show you have to be on the ball 100% of the time. Ride to survive.

[gammaguy]

i always know when a thread has exhausted its productive and relevant phase,its when everyone starts calling each other names..........

[laRIKin]

OK I was not going to post, but I think I will now.

I know a guy that is a close friend of the girl that was last in the line of bikes and was very lucky to not get hurt to bad.

The on coming Triumph had finished over taking the cars BEFORE the corner.
When he and his partner came around the corner, he went wide and crossed the centre line and hit the other bike head on.

At the time NO cars had can around the corner to see what happened at the time of the crash.
And the only witness at the time of the crash was her, that is the girl that survived. (of course there is still the poor girl in a coma that will not be talking for awhile)

She is getting pissed off with the reporters and every one else that thinks they know want happened.
And what is being said about the crash.

As she said, SHE is the only one that was there, that is still a live, that seen want happened and is getting overruled by everyone else.

And this is the only reason I'm posting this is to get her side out.

Why the guy ran wide I do not know.
Bump? To fast? gravel? Who knows?

RIP all those that were there and passed away.
And may the families and friends find peace in time.

First and last post on this from me.

[chanceyy]

Thank you Lemans for posting, of course the only ones who could comment accurately were the witnesses but in typical KB fashion, everyone is an expert ..

[Winston001]

OK I was not going to post, but I think I will now.

I know a guy that is a close friend of the girl that was last in the line of bikes and was very lucky to not get hurt to bad.

The on coming Triumph had finished over taking the cars BEFORE the corner.
When he and his partner came around the corner, he went wide and crossed the centre line and hit the other bike head on.

At the time NO cars had can around the corner to see what happened at the time of the crash.
And the only witness at the time of the crash was her, that is the girl that survived. (of course there is still the poor girl in a coma that will not be talking for awhile)

She is getting pissed off with the reporters and every one else that thinks they know want happened.
And what is being said about the crash.

As she said, SHE is the only one that was there, that is still a live, that seen want happened and is getting overruled by everyone else.

And this is the only reason I'm posting this is to get her side out.

Why the guy ran wide I do not know.
Bump? To fast? gravel? Who knows?

RIP all those that were there and passed away.
And may the families and friends find peace in time.

First and last post on this from me.

Thankyou very much Lemans for this clear description. A mate and I were on the way through Kaikoura the day this happened and were pretty solemn when we heard. We also had worried family and friends contacting us.

Since then I've been around the North Island, visited Headbanger in Wanganui, and now on the way home. I've checked this thread from time to time to try and understand what happened. I've carried this tragedy with me and it is being talked about by motorcyclists everywhere. Your post is appreciated

[Patrick]

... the police and MoT admit, unofficially, that their real purpose now is to slow traffic down. To the speed of the aforesaid bowling hatted twit.

First part is right. The second part is wrong. Just sown to the actual speed limit is more like it.

[swbarnett]

First part is right. The second part is wrong. Just sown to the actual speed limit is more like it.
This of course takes no account of the natural human reaction to being prevented from driving to the legal limit for no good reason. The result is that drivers lose respect for the yellow line and end up ignoring even those that are there for genuine safety reasons.

[scumdog]

This of course takes no account of the natural human reaction to being prevented from driving to the legal limit for no good reason. The result is that drivers lose respect for the yellow line and end up ignoring even those that are there for genuine safety reasons.

Yeah, and the next thing they'll ignoree stop signs, traffic-lights, give ways and driving on the left too....:doh:

Let the anarchy (and carnage) begin.

[Patrick]

This of course takes no account of the natural human reaction to being prevented from driving to the legal limit for no good reason. The result is that drivers lose respect for the yellow line and end up ignoring even those that are there for genuine safety reasons.

Most, if not all, yellows are there because of some accident that occurred.


Yeah, and the next thing they'll ignoree stop signs, traffic-lights, give ways and driving on the left too....:doh:

Let the anarchy (and carnage) begin.

Couldn't have said it better.....

[Ixion]

First part is right. The second part is wrong. Just sown to the actual speed limit is more like it.

Not so. It is an unarguable fact that any stream of traffic will have sooner or later some vehicle that is travelling way under the speed limit . For many reasons. A tractor, an elderly car, a laden truck, or, as noted a bowling hatted twit.

Such slow traffic is universal, and inevitable. On a 'normal' road, traffic moving at the speed limit (or above of course) will, after a while pass the slow vehicle.

But, when yellow lines are painted for tens of kilometres on end, as is now common, it is not possible for traffic to pass the slow vehicles. And since police never enforce the laws that would require such vehicles to pull over and let traffic past, the actual, inevitable, and intended result of the unending yellow lines is that all traffic is reduced to the speed of the slowest vehicle on the roads, which is always going to be way below the speed limit.

[quickbuck]

OK I was not going to post, but I think I will now.
.....

Thnak you.
This explination makes more sense....

I guess we may never know what put him on the wrong side of the road, but wind was mentioned......

A case of all the holes in the cheese lining up: James Reason (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Cheese_model).

[piston broke]

[QUOTE=Patrick;1874465]Most, if not all, yellows are there because of some accident that occurred.

up here on a realitivly quiet road they have just put in 2 solid yellow lines that are on straight pieces of road with at least 400m clear view.
oh and they are about the only really safe passing spots on a 8+km road :blank:

and for some reason they are making a lot of good roads 80kph

[quickbuck]

Paint must be cheaper than driver education...... Put up the price of oil again I say!

[Forest]

Why the guy ran wide I do not know.
Bump? To fast? gravel? Who knows?

I expect he ran wide because he was carrying too much speed from the over-taking maneuver.

But I wasn't there and do not know.

[quickbuck]

I expect he ran wide because he was carrying too much speed from the over-taking maneuver.

But I wasn't there and do not know.

Or looked across at the bikes coming toward him.....???
Again, wasn't there, don't know.....

[swbarnett]

Most, if not all, yellows are there because of some accident that occurred.
Just because an accident occurred in a particular place does not make that an inherintly dangerous place to pass. Accidents have occurred due to poor motorway lane changing. Are you going to ban lane changes on the Motorway?

[Patrick]

But, when yellow lines are painted for tens of kilometres on end, as is now common...

None around here. None in Auckland. Can imagine it on SH2 anywhere from the Bombays southwards. Where else?


....up here on a realitivly quiet road they have just put in 2 solid yellow lines that are on straight pieces of road with at least 400m clear view.
oh and they are about the only really safe passing spots on a 8+km road :blank:

and for some reason they are making a lot of good roads 80kph

What road would this be? (Having worked up there and all.....
)

Only a 400 clear view,? From the moment you think, OK, I will pass now coz it is all clear, get your speed going, overtake and return to your lane, will take how long?

Then cut that in half, because of the oncoming vehicle travelling at the same speed - or less if it is going quicker...). The 400 "clear visibility" is no longer 400. 200 at best.....

Do you get where this is heading to?

[Patrick]

Just because an accident occurred in a particular place does not make that an inherintly dangerous place to pass. Accidents have occurred due to poor motorway lane changing. Are you going to ban lane changes on the Motorway?

Who says it was due to "an" accident? Changes occur usually because of multiple instances.....

As for the rest, accidents occur because of speed, alcohol, poor overtaking, failure to stop or give way... just to name a few. Unsafe lane changes are illegal. Your (silly) point is?

[swbarnett]

Yeah, and the next thing they'll ignoree stop signs, traffic-lights, give ways and driving on the left too....:doh:

Let the anarchy (and carnage) begin.
What I'm talking about are things that any half-way intelligent driver can see have no basis in logic. Stop sings and traffic lights etc. have a logical basis.

As soon as some yellow lines go in where it is perfectly safe to pass if done properly the others that should be there lose their credibility and will be ignored.

Don't expect people to act a certain way just because someone in power says so. Any instruction to the general public must be seen to be logical.

[swbarnett]

Who says it was due to "an" accident? Changes occur usually because of multiple instances.....

As for the rest, accidents occur because of speed, alcohol, poor overtaking, failure to stop or give way... just to name a few. Unsafe lane changes are illegal. Your (silly) point is?
My point is that unsafe lane changing does not lead to the banning of all lane changing. Unsafe overtaking is also illegal. But this does sometimes result in the banning of ALL overtaking, safe or otherwise.

[scumdog]

WAny instruction to the general public must be seen to be logical.

Who to?
The mythical 'average' person?

At least half will be below average, hence what might be logical to you? and I won't be to those ones.

[piston broke]

What road would this be? (Having worked up there and all.....
)



Do you get where this is heading to?

ww to snells,
ww to matakana,this being the one i use more,as you know it is mostly straights.
the worst thing tho is that it has made people go even slower than they need too,often now you will be stuck behind people doin 60/70 kph :angry2:;)

yep i get where you are headed,tho if i'm goin to pass someone i'm ready to go the second i'm sure of clear road.bike or v8, i get past asap and back on my side.i mean if you needed 400m+ to pass there wouldn't be to many places to pass anywhere.

[swbarnett]

Who to?
The mythical 'average' person?
It is a tennet of the justice system that "Justice must be seen to be done". It is not enough that justice is done, it must be visible to anyone that cares to look. The same goes for ANY law. If it doesn't stand up to logical scrutiny a law has no place in the statutes.

[FJRider]

What I'm talking about are things that any half-way intelligent driver can see have no basis in logic. Stop sings and traffic lights etc. have a logical basis.

As soon as some yellow lines go in where it is perfectly safe to pass if done properly the others that should be there lose their credibility and will be ignored.

Don't expect people to act a certain way just because someone in power says so. Any instruction to the general public must be seen to be logical.

People do not always stop at stop signs, as do they not always obey traffic lights. The logic in that escapes me...
What may be a perfectly safe place to pass on a high powered motorcycle/car, may not be in/on a less powerful machine, or with a less experienced rider/driver.
As always... people ignore the laws that they believe don't and shouldn't apply to them. Or find "inconvenient" for them, at that time.

[scumdog]

What may be a perfectly safe place to pass on a high powered motorcycle/car, may not be in/on a less powerful machine, or with a lessexperienced rider/driver.


A screaming obvious fact that seems to escape some people on here.

(And some who drive said low powered cars etc)

[FJRider]

It is a tennet of the justice system that "Justice must be seen to be done". It is not enough that justice is done, it must be visible to anyone that cares to look. The same goes for ANY law. If it doesn't stand up to logical scrutiny a law has no place in the statutes.

It is a tenet of the justice system, that "The laws of the land must be upheld". Not just the ones you like.

[Jantar]

....


Only a 400 clear view,? From the moment you think, OK, I will pass now coz it is all clear, get your speed going, overtake and return to your lane, will take how long?

A valid point Patrick, But is does depend on the speed and length of the vehicle that you wish to overtake.

However to answer your question, I shall assume I'm on my DL1000 which is an average performing bike, and I wish to pass a 5 m long vehicle travelling at 80 kmh (22 m/s) I shall start the manouver from 2 secs behind and calculate the distance to finish 2 seconds in front. I shall also assume 4th gear which is where my bike is most responsive in the range of 80 - 160 kmh and can easily achive 6 m/s^2.

In 3 seconds I have accellerated to 40 m/s (a comfortable passing speed) and covered 92 m. The vehicle I am passing has travelled 66 m so I am 18 m behind the front of the vehicle. In the next 1 second I am equal with the front of the vehicle, and 2 seconds later I am back to 28 m/s (100 km hr). The average speed during the manouver is 33.5 m/s and takes 6 seconds.
Total distance travelled to complete the manouver is 201 m and I am now 69m or 3 seconds ahead of the other vehicle.

I have also just lost my licence for 28 days for completing a passing manouver safely, in half the clear visiable distance ahead.


Then cut that in half, because of the oncoming vehicle travelling at the same speed - or less if it is going quicker...). The 400 "clear visibility" is no longer 400. 200 at best.....

Do you get where this is heading to?

I believe the math proves that it would be unsafe to attempt such a move with only 400m visibilty at the start unless the other vehicle is travelling at 80kmh or less. Maybe this is why the old road code asked for 300 yards clear visibility during the entire manouver.

However if the other vehicle is only doing 70 kmh then 400 m would be ample room to pass. The entire manouver would only take 182 m.

[Hitcher]

It is a tennant of the justice system,

Gahh! Tenet.

[FJRider]

The absence of yellow lines does not mean passing is safe either... regardless of what you're piloting...

[FJRider]

Gahh! Tenet.

English is my second language... I made a hash of my first...

bloody Yamaha riders...

[piston broke]

Gahh! Tenet.

lol,please don't read anything from me then,i quit school before end of school c year.

interesting numbers jantar,thanks

[Ixion]

Quote:
<table border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;"> Originally Posted by FJRider http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?p=1874549#post1874549)
What may be a perfectly safe place to pass on a high powered motorcycle/car, may not be in/on a less powerful machine, or with a lessexperienced rider/driver.
</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
A screaming obvious fact that seems to escape some people on here.

(And some who drive said low powered cars etc)
<!-- / message --><!-- controls -->


Firstly, the logical conclusion of that is that overtaking can only be permitted where it would be safe for Farmer Giles on his tractor , maximum speed 15kph. Which is to say, never.

But there is also a logical defect. The proliferation of yellow lines in recent times are (almost) always where there were none before. So, in the past the piece of road was reckoned safe to overtaking (I shall exclude those from the argument where it was always unsafe , because of a bend or whetever; and the yellow lines merely reinforce the prohibition. There are not many such). Now, almost all vehicles now have MORE power than in the past. So , how come it was safe all those years , safe for Granpa in his Morrie Minor, top speed 70mph; but now suddenly it not safe for Gramna in her 200kph Corrolla ? Vehicles have gotten more powerful, not less. There should by your logic be MORE places where passing is safe, not less.

[FJRider]

lol,please don't read anything from me then,i quit school before end of school c year.

interesting numbers jantar,thanks

Hitcher is KB's version of spellcheck...

[piston broke]

ixion,don't forget grandma is commin at you at 200k's as well

[quickbuck]

ixion,don't forget grandma is commin at you at 200k's as well

That is why you don't ever overtake coming up to a blind corner, as Grandma's Corolla might be on 18's with no springs in it, and handle like Timo Glock's F1 car..... Or worse... Could me a right hander, and they drift onto your side of the road......

[FJRider]

Firstly, the logical conclusion of that is that overtaking can only be permitted where it would be safe for Farmer Giles on his tractor , maximum speed 15kph. Which is to say, never.

But there is also a logical defect. The proliferation of yellow lines in recent times are (almost) always where there were none before. So, in the past the piece of road was reckoned safe to overtaking (I shall exclude those from the argument where it was always unsafe , because of a bend or whetever; and the yellow lines merely reinforce the prohibition. There are not many such). Now, almost all vehicles now have MORE power than in the past. So , how come it was safe all those years , safe for Granpa in his Morrie Minor, top speed 70mph; but now suddenly it not safe for Gramna in her 200kph Corrolla ? Vehicles have gotten more powerful, not less. There should by your logic be MORE places where passing is safe, not less.

To quote a friend... Bullshit. Faster more powerful cars/bikes are coming toward you, giving less time to pass, with greater possible impact speeds. All with the possibility of Granpa in his Morrie Minor still in the passing equation. And if he sees no yellow lines... he may think it is safe to pass. AND DOES. What may be seen as a perfectly safe manouver... turn to shit real quick.
Remember, wrong side of the road is half the equation of "wrong place wrong time"...your time may well be up.

[Ixion]

To quote a friend... Bullshit. Faster more powerful cars/bikes are coming toward you, giving less time to pass, with greater possible impact speeds. All with the possibility of Granpa in his Morrie Minor still in the passing equation. And if he sees no yellow lines... he may think it is safe to pass. AND DOES. What may be seen as a perfectly safe manouver... turn to shit real quick.
Remember, wrong side of the road is half the equation of "wrong place wrong time"...your time may well be up.

Bullshit (to quote your friend). The cars in granpa's day were oncoming at 90kph (55 mph) . Now they are oncoming at 100 kph. Bugger all difference. Unless they are breaking the speed limit. In which case there is no knowing what they were doing then, or now. As for "if he sees no yellow lines he may think it is safe to pass". This is utter nonsense (though I suspect it is the logic of the insane yellow paint maniac". It has always been the rule (since I have been riding anyway), that there were very well known (and legislated) rules about when it was safe (or not)s to pass : not on blind bends; not on blind hill tops; not into oncoming traffic; all of them being specifics of the general case of requiring 100 yards (metres) of clear road visble through the pass , including at its end. It has NEVER been the case that "no yellows = safe to pass". Wasn't then , isn't now. Only a suicidal idiot would make that assumption.

So, if there was enough clear road for Granpa, in his Morrie to pull out and pass and back in (taking however many minutes that took), and he still have 100 metres of clear road visible throughout, how come there isn't now , when Granma's Coroalla takes seconds instead of minutes? The road's the same only thing changed is that now the pass takes less time, not more.

[Ixion]

ixion,don't forget grandma is commin at you at 200k's as well

Noone has suggested that anyone should overtake into oncoming traffic. With or without yellow lines.

[FJRider]

Seeing how some believe it IS, or at least can be safe to pass on yellow lines, and you say no yellow means it isn't always safe, highlights different opinions on what is safe.
One rider believed it was safe to pass. it wasn't.
Each and every road is safe if treated with respect. As is treating every OTHER road user... even the ones you are not immediately aware of... with similar respect.

[davereid]

Seeing how some believe it IS, or at least can be safe to pass on yellow lines, and you say no yellow means it isn't always safe, highlights different opinions on what is safe.
One rider believed it was safe to pass. it wasn't.
Each and every road is safe if treated with respect. As is treating every OTHER road user... even the ones you are not immediately aware of... with similar respect.

You may have a very karma and cool personality. I wish I did, but I don't. When I come up behind a driver doing 70 in a 100 zone, chatting to the missus, and with rear-view mirrors that give him a view of the sky, its not long before i want to pass.

But if I am traveling on SH1 between Levin and Paraparaumu, I can't pass him anymore. This is because virtually the entire road has become a set of no passing lines. There are a couple of passing lanes thank goodness. Sadly, Grandad will spot them too, and accelerate briskly to the speed limit.

So, yes I'm bad. I'll pass Grandad, based entirely on my judgement.

I'm very keen to stay alive.

I try very hard to be sure that I havent made a mistake.

But the yellow lines that used to tell me judgement was flawed have gone, replace with another type of yellow lines. Yellow lines that are just an indicator of the approximate centerline.

I sincerely believe that the road toll would go down if motorists had ample safe opportunity to pass safely.

To my mind, drivers in the LHS of a passing lane should be restricted to a maximum of 70 km/hr, and those in the RHS lane a minimum of 110.

[NighthawkNZ]

The absence of yellow lines does not mean passing is safe either... regardless of what you're piloting...

thats what I have said and I say as well... however going by what LeMans said... the biker had completed the over taking manouver already...