Racing safety issues

[Shaun]

I have edited this to add why I asked about it in the first place.

Apart from it being the Kiwi way ie, give it a go, it is also the responsibilty of people to try to eliminat the hazards in any sport/job/work.

So I was looking to see what joe punter of this site thought about it?

I am definately NOT trying to point a finger nor knock any one for all there efforts, be it riders or commitee organisers.

How many riders were entered at the Wanganui Street races, that had not even raced in the last 12 months before boxing day?

It is not safe for them, nor for any of the other riders on the track, practise makes perfect, Not road races!

The Isle on man TT races, demand that 6 races are done in a 12 month period before there entries are accepted, do we have any such safety rules in NZ that I am not aware of?

Not stiring, just thinking about safety for one and all, I am sure that 2 or 3 of the riders that crashed, had NOT raced for many moons?

[jrandom]

I thought that one had to have at least three stamps from completed race meets within the last year (six months?) in one's licence book before entering Wangas or Pie Rower?

[Shaun]

I thought that one had to have at least three stamps from completed race meets within the last year (six months?) in one's licence book before entering Wangas or Pie Rower?


I think that rule is

3 stamps before a rider can enter a street race full stop, Not per each year, just first time at a street race

No disrespect to a very very good top old rider Bubbles Grey, but he had not even raced for 6 years, and he was out there

[jrandom]

I think that rule is

3 stamps before a rider can enter a street race full stop, Not per each year, just first time at a street race

Ah, right. Hmmm.

Might not be a bad idea to make the rule 'within the last year' then eh?

[Marknz]

Yea, I too thought you had to have some stamps in your log book to be able to enter a street race. That said, I don't think I've actually seen it written down anywhere. Someone in the know will follow up on this for us.

Shaun... only saw you out there once on Boxing Day (and a good effort it was too). Was there something wrong with the bike that you were not out there again? Where was the MDF what-ever-it-was that you were going to be racing? Were you just getting a licence stamp to be able to race IOM TT in '09?

[Shaun]

Yea, I too thought you had to have some stamps in your log book to be able to enter a street race. That said, I don't think I've actually seen it written down anywhere. Someone in the know will follow up on this for us.

Shaun... only saw you out there once on Boxing Day (and a good effort it was too). Was there something wrong with the bike that you were not out there again? Where was the MDF what-ever-it-was that you were going to be racing? Were you just getting a licence stamp to be able to race IOM TT in '09?


Simple mate, I do not have the cash flow to doevery single race these days as I am an old smashed up has been that cannot find the cash suppoet required to race full on, and since I have not been working really for the last 18 months due to off, I have no spare cash to fill my boots with, as well as

I stopped doing any training about 4 months ago, as my head was not 100% perfect as yet, so I am very unfit and very weak still, I normally weigh 63 KG, but are still only 55 at the moment, and as I am so unfit, I decided it was safer for me and the other riders to only do what I need to do for theTT:girlfight:

[puddytat]

3 stamps in your log book & your away... & those have to be on a closed track i.e under race control.

[MyGSXF]

Are you coming to the Nsn races 2nd Jan, Shaun?

[Quasievil]

Three stamps and youre in, but you make a good point Shaun, for me I did a bunch of racing and trackdays to make sure I and the bike was up to the game vmcc.
I think also that their needs to be a better qualification process to enable a rider to compete at Wangas, ie 3 races in the last 6 months, or even perhaps the rider should enter the entire series, it seemed to me that many where at Wangas but didnt seem to give a toss about the series they had entered ie the Tri Series, it was 3 events not just one at Wangas being held.
Possible a few Glory boys choose Wangas only for the bragging rights ?

[vtec]

Shit, you're down to 55kg? I'm pretty damn slim, and I lost 4kg in 3 weeks of bicycle couriering leading up to xmas, and I dropped to 68kg, and I felt noticeably weaker, but a whole lot fitter. I hope you can put some of that weight back on man, you'll need it for the isle of mann.

People race the street circuits more, because they get attention, and with attention sometimes comes funding of some sort. It's just a pity that the crowds only go to the street meetings, because they are so much more dangerous. Saw the bruising on nicki's legs, damn. A lot of people were busy crashing.

[R6_kid]

I remember hearing someone saying that you must also hold the applicable road licence for the bike you are riding? So anyone on a bike over 250cc shoud be on their full?

[Quasievil]

I remember hearing someone saying that you must also hold the applicable road licence for the bike you are riding? So anyone on a bike over 250cc shoud be on their full?

Ive never shown my road licence to anyone in racing scrutineering or applications that I recall

[Drew]

Jesus Shaun, the rule says you have to have street race experience, or three races under your belt in the year leading up to the event.

Where does it end??? Take a break from racing and never be allowed back.

Fuck the bubble wrap, and HARDEN THE FUCK UP!!!

[Shaun]

Jesus Shaun, the rule says you have to have street race experience, or three races under your belt in the year leading up to the event.

Where does it end??? Take a break from racing and never be allowed back.

Fuck the bubble wrap, and HARDEN THE FUCK UP!!!




Or just be a crasher because of lack of experience and an over active ego, your choice dude

[Shaun]

Ive never shown my road licence to anyone in racing scrutineering or applications that I recall


I laughed my tits off at that this year as well dude, the rules do say to race on the streets here you must have a civ license, but I never asked to prove it, and never saw any one getting asked either.

As it is a street race, it still comes under civil laws, ( AS SUCH) so if you had a serious accident where some one was hurt, the police would have been called in to check it out, ( And that could lead to a manslaughter charge or some thing similar) and if the rider had no civil license, shit would hit the fan big time

[eelracing]

Or just be a crasher because of lack of experience and an over active ego, your choice dude

Can't agree with you on this one Shaun as it was my first road race since last years cemetery circuit.Had no plans to do it this year until got offered a bike so leapt at the chance.Bloody glad i did coz i had a ball.

The scariest moments i had were due probably to the amount of fuckn' oil around the place.
In my opinion if the organisers want to make street racing safer then all riders who crash during practice or races (street racing only)the bikes should immediately be taken off track and not allowed back on until after practice or the race is over.ie trailered back to the pits if leaking any fluids once checked over by a marshal.

[Shaun]

Can't agree with you on this one Shaun as it was my first road race since last years cemetery circuit.Had no plans to do it this year until got offered a bike so leapt at the chance.Bloody glad i did coz i had a ball.

The scariest moments i had were due probably to the amount of fuckn' oil around the place.
In my opinion if the organisers want to make street racing safer then all riders who crash during practice or races (street racing only)the bikes should immediately be taken off track and not allowed back on until after practice or the race is over.ie trailered back to the pits if leaking any fluids once checked over by a marshal.



Fare enough mate, just asking the question

[t3mp0r4ry nzr]

wat about the zx12r in F1. immaculate looking road bike (with taped lights). purple jump suit. blocking the track at Robert Holden. an accident waiting to happen. end of race 2, who's on the back of the trailer? 2 guess's! Although pleasantly surprised he lasted till race 2 before he relized he was in over his head and scuttled his perfect ROAD bike.

street racing aint a place for whim of fancy "have a go ya mug!"

If road licences were checked, half the motard field would of been ineligable to compete, given that most have been riding mx since year dot (and for other classes as well, not just picking on motards). Yes, interesting liability situation for oraganiser in case of death. Who's fault. Rider or organiser for allowing an unlicensed rider on (closed) public road?

Hard one though, aint it? we want the racing but as less red tape as poss.

I guess the answer is the advice often given by Vic club before the races "Dont crash, it'll phuck it up for the rest of us".

[Crasherfromwayback]

wat about the zx12r in F1. immaculate looking road bike (with taped lights). purple jump suit. blocking the track at Robert Holden. an accident waiting to happen.street racing aint a place for whim of fancy "have a go ya mug!"


Hard one though, aint it? we want the racing but as less red tape as poss.

I guess the answer is the advice often given by Vic club before the races "Dont crash, it'll phuck it up for the rest of us".

Tough one mate for sure. With regards to the punter on the ZX12...I was there at age 19 at Gracefeild on a GPZ1100. Was I out of my depth? For sure!

Did I get in anyones way? For sure. Glenn Williams and Bob Toomey went either side of me out of one corner...with one of them (can't remember which one) practically having to mount the curb to get round me. They were good enough racers to do it...and they obviously made allowences for me. That's how it goes.

As regards to how many races you've done in the year leading up to Wangas...once again I'm not sure. I've raced on and off there for years on a variety of bikes, simply because I love the place. I nearly lost my foot there in '05' due to trying to avoid another racer that I think made a bad judgement call. Should he have been there? For sure in my eyes. Racing can be and is often dangerous. WE don't have to be there if we think it's not worth the risk.

Should I have been there even though I'd not done a lot of meetings that year? Sure!

We can do our best to minimize the risks...but no matter how hard we try...there will always be risks. THAT'S racing. Nobody makes us do it.

[Marknz]

Simple mate, I do not have the cash flow to doevery single race these days as I am an old smashed up has been that cannot find the cash suppoet required to race full on, and since I have not been working really for the last 18 months due to off, I have no spare cash to fill my boots with, as well as

I stopped doing any training about 4 months ago, as my head was not 100% perfect as yet, so I am very unfit and very weak still, I normally weigh 63 KG, but are still only 55 at the moment, and as I am so unfit, I decided it was safer for me and the other riders to only do what I need to do for theTT:girlfight:

Well I really hope someone comes to the fore soon with some sponsorship dollars for you (although in these hard-times, that would seem like a trial). Either that or you can pick up a decent paying job to get the mullah flowing.

And the call you made on the fitness front is a good one. Yes you might have looked good out there and done well in race 1, but only you would know how you were feeling physically on the bike and the risks you were taking.

Good luck for the year ahead.

[Quasievil]

If road licences were checked, half the motard field would of been ineligable to compete, given that most have been riding mx since year dot

I dont follow, are you saying Motard riders are young or are you saying they dont race much ?

[t3mp0r4ry nzr]

Tough one mate for sure. With regards to the punter on the ZX12...I was there at age 19 at Gracefeild on a GPZ1100. Was I out of my depth? For sure!

Did I get in anyones way? For sure. Glenn Williams and Bob Toomey went either side of me out of one corner...with one of them (can't remember which one) practically having to mount the curb to get round me. They were good enough racers to do it...and they obviously made allowences for me. That's how it goes.

As regards to how many races you've done in the year leading up to Wangas...once again I'm not sure. I've raced on and off there for years on a variety of bikes, simply because I love the place. I nearly lost my foot there in '05' due to trying to avoid another racer that I think made a bad judgement call. Should he have been there? For sure in my eyes. Racing can be and is often dangerous. WE don't have to be there if we think it's not worth the risk.

Should I have been there even though I'd not done a lot of meetings that year? Sure!

We can do our best to minimize the risks...but no matter how hard we try...there will always be risks. THAT'S racing. Nobody makes us do it.

fair enough Pete. theres alot at stake though, as you have experienced. Both risk to body and bike, and to the track. with such a small window of time to have the road closed, crashes do mess up timing, especially when oil gets on the tarmac, as what happened in practice. but I fully respect your opinion and your experiences, just in this instance I saw it coming and I find it difficult to think that no-one else did (with all respect to the rider and not to pick on him, just a convenient example).

but at the end of the day, we wanted to see bikes race going really fast, and that we did see! a great day!

[t3mp0r4ry nzr]

I dont follow, are you saying Motard riders are young or are you saying they dont race much ?


nah, saying that they wouldnt have a road licence in most instances (as with many other riders in other classes)

[Billy]

nah, saying that they wouldnt have a road licence in most instances (as with many other riders in other classes)

Sorry Mate,Your wrong there.You dont need a civil licence at Wanganui as its road closure is under the local council act 1972,You only need a civil licence when the road is closed under the land transport act 1998 which is required where 1 or more of the roads is under the control of Transit NZ ie where there is a state highway as part of the circuit(start/finish straight at Paeroa)

[t3mp0r4ry nzr]

Sorry Mate,Your wrong there.You dont need a civil licence at Wanganui as its road closure is under the local council act 1972,You only need a civil licence when the road is closed under the land transport act 1998 which is required where 1 or more of the roads is under the control of Transit NZ ie where there is a state highway as part of the circuit(start/finish straight at Paeroa)

thanks mate, you know your regs.! you have my support for rider's rep! haha. was just going by what soemone else mentioned, and added my own ramblings on the matter.

So you need a road licence at Paeroa given that the straightaway is a state highway?

[crazefox]

Jesus Shaun, the rule says you have to have street race experience, or three races under your belt in the year leading up to the event.

Where does it end??? Take a break from racing and never be allowed back.

Fuck the bubble wrap, and HARDEN THE FUCK UP!!!

GOOD CALL BRO:clap:

[Kickaha]

The Isle on man TT races, demand that 6 races are done in a 12 month period before there entries are accepted, do we have any such safety rules in NZ that I am not aware of?

Whie I think it is a good idea in theory, in practice there are people who can take a break for years come back and be just as good as they ever where, there are others who could race every week for the year leading up to it and I'd still be reluctant to share the track with them

[wbks]

Simple mate, I do not have the cash flow to doevery single race these days as I am an old smashed up has been that cannot find the cash suppoet required to race full on, and since I have not been working really for the last 18 months due to off, I have no spare cash to fill my boots with, as well as

I stopped doing any training about 4 months ago, as my head was not 100% perfect as yet, so I am very unfit and very weak still, I normally weigh 63 KG, but are still only 55 at the moment, and as I am so unfit, I decided it was safer for me and the other riders to only do what I need to do for theTT:girlfight:
So what does training for big racing like that involve? I always thought seeing as road racing is not hugely demanding like conventional sports, you would just try to be as light as possible with reasonable upper body strength and aerobic fitness?

[Kiwi Graham]

My understanding for road racing is three races in that year. No road licence because road closure rules apply and what the fook is a road bike doing with lights taped up!! I bet he had green slippery coolent in the rad and un-lockwired essentials. Sounds like some tightening up is required.

Shaun, are you still off to Ireland this winter, ny sponsers yet?

[Quasievil]

looking at the Paeroa entry forms it requires civil licence number as the event is run on a state highway rules 5-8-6 and 5-8-7 apply, so there ya go, must be needed

[ajturbo]

what amazes me and ALL the overseas races i talked to while ... overseas...
was the fact that joe bloggs can BUY a race license and a new F1 race bike and enter ANY F1 race in NZ with NO experience.....
hell even i could do that... would YOU want ME racing in that class???

[ajturbo]

looking at the Paeroa entry forms it requires civil licence number as the event is run on a state highway rules 5-8-6 and 5-8-7 apply, so there ya go, must be needed

but NOT at wanganui????

[enigma51]

what amazes me and ALL the overseas races i talked to while ... overseas...
was the fact that joe bloggs can BUY a race license and a new F1 race bike and enter ANY F1 race in NZ with NO experience.....
hell even i could do that... would YOU want ME racing in that class???


Im no racers so shouldnt realy comment (Maybe jrandom can do it for me) :Pokey:

The rules should state that you need to be within 110% of the fastest qualifying time and that should be adjusted according to the track layout. In other words you shouldnt be lapped within 8 laps.

But then there is the flip side they should make it more competive for the privateer but putting more rules around bike mods and even go as far as creating a superstock like class for both 1000 and 600. Then you will cater for the big manufacturer and there huge wallets (yes even in nz) as well as someone like me in privateer sort of class

[Quasievil]

Im no racers so shouldnt realy comment (Maybe jrandom can do it for me) :Pokey:

The rules should state that you need to be within 110% of the fastest qualifying time and that should be adjusted according to the track layout. In other words you shouldnt be lapped within 8 laps.

But then there is the flip side they should make it more competive for the privateer but putting more rules around bike mods and even go as far as creating a superstock like class for both 1000 and 600. Then you will cater for the big manufacturer and there huge wallets (yes even in nz) as well as someone like me in privateer sort of class

Well that would put me out of wanganui, Atkins and his $100k bike lapped me on the last lap, as well as a bunch of others, maybe he was to fast and he shouldnt have been allowed to race lol

[enigma51]

Well that would put me out of wanganui, Atkins and his $100k bike lapped me on the last lap, as well as a bunch of others, maybe he was to fast and he shouldnt have been allowed to race lol
:blink: ............

[crazefox]

what amazes me and ALL the overseas races i talked to while ... overseas...
was the fact that joe bloggs can BUY a race license and a new F1 race bike and enter ANY F1 race in NZ with NO experience.....
hell even i could do that... would YOU want ME racing in that class???

Sure fucking would mate

[wharfy]

I did Greymouth and they had a rule that every first timer to that meeting got a special practice and had to wear a yellow t-shirt over their leathers so everyone new who the newbies were.
At Wanganui first timers got a special practice. The yellow t-shirt idea is quite good I thought. I didn't mind wearing it.

[McDuck]

I did Greymouth and they had a rule that every first timer to that meeting got a special practice and had to wear a yellow t-shirt over their leathers so everyone new who the newbies were.
At Wanganui first timers got a special practice. The yellow t-shirt idea is quite good I thought. I didn't mind wearing it.

hell i would get as many signitures on it as i could then frame it.

[Shaun]

Sorry Mate,Your wrong there.You dont need a civil licence at Wanganui as its road closure is under the local council act 1972,You only need a civil licence when the road is closed under the land transport act 1998 which is required where 1 or more of the roads is under the control of Transit NZ ie where there is a state highway as part of the circuit(start/finish straight at Paeroa)


Well done billy, that is a fact!

[Shaun]

Well I really hope someone comes to the fore soon with some sponsorship dollars for you (although in these hard-times, that would seem like a trial). Either that or you can pick up a decent paying job to get the mullah flowing.

And the call you made on the fitness front is a good one. Yes you might have looked good out there and done well in race 1, but only you would know how you were feeling physically on the bike and the risks you were taking.

Good luck for the year ahead.


Not worried about it at all mate.

Re a decent job, hahaha, I would have been working for the last few months if I was physically able to.

Physical comments- CHEERS, I thought that was the best thing to do

[Shaun]

what amazes me and ALL the overseas races i talked to while ... overseas...
was the fact that joe bloggs can BUY a race license and a new F1 race bike and enter ANY F1 race in NZ with NO experience.....
hell even i could do that... would YOU want ME racing in that class???


Never YOU! But the int riders come over on a International FIM licence, so they must have a history on tracks to obtain that, and there federation would not lie to the FIM, or they would really be in the Poop

[ArcherWC]

wat about the zx12r in F1. immaculate looking road bike (with taped lights). purple jump suit. blocking the track at Robert Holden. an accident waiting to happen. end of race 2, who's on the back of the trailer? 2 guess's! Although pleasantly surprised he lasted till race 2 before he relized he was in over his head and scuttled his perfect ROAD bike.

.


He was a menace on the track and an accident waiting to happen, as it was he left the track (out braked himself) and re-entered without looking and slammed into the side of me. luckily I saw him coming, got off the gas, swerved and braced, thus I managed to stay on. however if it had been one of the race leaders, there would have very likely been VERY serious injuries.
As it was I just had my nice new shiny fairings smashed in (oh well back to Frenchy)

[Drew]

Or just be a crasher because of lack of experience and an over active ego, your choice dude


Yeah, I'm labeled (and rightly so) 'a crasher', but riddle me this...How many events, over what time frame have you done between fucking yourself up beyond all recognition, and Wanganui Shaun?

This thread is bullshit wrapped in silk. Having a whinge in the name of safety just for the fucking sake of it. Go work for OSH, or perhaps get them to sponsor you.

SAD

[Shaun]

Yeah, I'm labeled (and rightly so) 'a crasher', but riddle me this...How many events, over what time frame have you done between fucking yourself up beyond all recognition, and Wanganui Shaun?

This thread is bullshit wrapped in silk. Having a whinge in the name of safety just for the fucking sake of it. Go work for OSH, or perhaps get them to sponsor you.

SAD


Calm down powl, " I know that sounds funny coming from me"

I did 7 test days and raced at Manfeild before Wanganui.

"To Quote You"




This thread is bullshit wrapped in silk. Having a whinge in the name of safety just for the fucking sake of it. Go work for OSH, or perhaps get them to sponsor you.

If you think I have sat down and typed my thoughts about what I see as an accident- perhaps Death of riders and spectators ( STEP IN OSH) as a winge weighting to happen, Then you have NO idea of passion and commitment to the sport.

I was nealy takin out ( Witnessed my many many) by a rider there this year who road like a total wanker with NO idea of how to behave on a race track, or the rules related to racing either.

It is not done how you have always tried to do it, perhaps if you tried to think a little better and not be such an arrogant twat all the time, ( And that does funny coming from me) you may learn some thing as well, and perhaps even finish a race your self one day:2guns:

Have a great day

[boomer]

He was a menace on the track and an accident waiting to happen, as it was he left the track (out braked himself) and re-entered without looking and slammed into the side of me. luckily I saw him coming, got off the gas, swerved and braced, thus I managed to stay on. however if it had been one of the race leaders, there would have very likely been VERY serious injuries.
As it was I just had my nice new shiny fairings smashed in (oh well back to Frenchy)

were you part of race control Brian? bringing up the rear to make sure it's all clear? As for the faster guys maybe having trouble with him.. i'd expect they have a lot more experience and would have dealt with this situation as needed. good on you for havin a crack tho :2thumbsup


on a more serious note, lessons should be learnt from tut norf of England and paddy land.. the races there are just as frenzied but with a lot more time behind them and experience in the bag...

im a firm believer,, if your not within 10% of teh fastest guy you shouldn't be out racing ( in that class )

[enigma51]

were you part of race control Brian? bringing up the rear to make sure it's all clear? As for the faster guys maybe having trouble with him.. i'd expect they have a lot more experience and would have dealt with this situation as needed. good on you for havin a crack tho :2thumbsup


on a more serious note, lessons should be learnt from tut norf of England and paddy land.. the races there are just as frenzied but with a lot more time behind them and experience in the bag...

im a firm believer,, if your not within 10% of teh fastest guy you shouldn't be out racing ( in that class )

Or you should dnf

dnf looks much better than last on the score card

[Shaun]

were you part of race control Brian? bringing up the rear to make sure it's all clear? As for the faster guys maybe having trouble with him.. i'd expect they have a lot more experience and would have dealt with this situation as needed. good on you for havin a crack tho :2thumbsup


on a more serious note, lessons should be learnt from tut norf of England and paddy land.. the races there are just as frenzied but with a lot more time behind them and experience in the bag...

im a firm believer,, if your not within 10% of teh fastest guy you shouldn't be out racing ( in that class )


100% agree with you

[boomer]

Or you should dnf

dnf looks much better than last on the score card


I forgot about dnf's...



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[enigma51]

I forgot about dnf's...


They area safety line for so many

[svs]

wangas always brings out a few riders who want to do nothing else. i guess it's because it's what they enjoy doing but the lack of experience can make it difficult for others.

but what's the alternative? a staged licensing system like in the UK? I was surprised when i came into NZ and just paid some money for my race license and off i went.

In the UK you start out as a novice and need to finish a number of club races before you can upgrade to a clubmans license. You can't even get a national license until you can show that you can finish in the top 50% in club rounds at a bunch of different circuits. If those rules were applied (and wanganui is counted as a 'national' level event) then I doubt the majority of the field there would even have been eligible to race!

http://www.acu.org.uk/uploaded/documents/22030%20ACU%20Notes1.pdf

I don't know if we want NZ to go this far, but if you think racing in NZ has got to the stage where some for of competency is required before being let loose on the street race circuits then the issue needs to be raised through the clubs. MNZ will only act if something either goes horribly wrong, or if a proposal is put forward from an affiliated club.

[jrandom]

Whilst Shaun's original point is very valid, I think that the most immediate problem facing roadracing in NZ isn't n00bs running in fast classes and riding dangerously (cue boomer et al scrambling for their keyboards to accuse me of doing precisely that :laugh:); it's ever-increasing costs creating a high entry barrier.

We need more people in the sport, not less.

The multi-level UK racing regulations undoubtedly work well in a country that has 50 million people packed into a similar land area to ours. They might not work so well here.

Better to encourage people into motorcycle racing than make it more exclusive than it already is.

[svs]

yep. agree totally - but the people you encourage into the sport need to have the opportunity to learn how to race safely and not just jump in at the deep end and only doing 3 meetings just to get the stamp so they can ride wanganui

grids at vicclub rounds are already full - it would be almost impossible to get more people into those rounds, but what if they ran a specific novice race?

why don't more people enter the cliffhanger hillclimb? is it because there are no crowds and joe public hasn't heard of it. riding at wanganui gives you bragging rights - eve if you can't ride for shit :)

[jrandom]

why don't more people enter the cliffhanger hillclimb?

Fucked if I know. I'll be there in March.


is it because there are no crowds and joe public hasn't heard of it

I don't get that either aye... personally, I'd rather being attempting to ride fast with a minimal number of people present to see me cock up.

:laugh:

[Quasievil]

i dont really agree with the "must be within 10% of the fastest riders time But I can see the reasoning behind it.
my fastest lap in the tards was 58 sec, Darryl Atkins was 51 sec's (at wangas) about half the field wouldnt have made it to 10% of his lap time it would have resulted in about 16 riders odd actually competing, and those 16 riders are without doubt ones with the biggest Modification jobs on their machines (in Motards) 450? my arse, 525? BS 580 cc, so it seems to me that the ones up front are mostly those with big bore machines and expensive add ons some legal some not.

There are no controls on engine mods etc in Motards

Now if the classes had a essences of control and regulation then I wouldnt have a problem with ensuring the feild is within 10% of the fastest riders time, but if the fastest rider has every engine and bike modification possible then its hardly fair is it? until they do stipulate some controls in the classes I wouldnt support it.

And their are a couple of machines leading the Motard field which are completely not legal, so why should I have to be within 10% of them?

I know also that this argument would apply to the rest of the classes as well in varying degrees.

It seems to me that those up front (not discounting their personal talent) do without doubt have extremely highly tuned machines which without doubt give them a huge advantage over the rest of us................................... sorry what did you say???? I can also spend $100k on my bike..........lol yeah right !! so racing is then for the elite and rich? that argument dont wash sorry (whichever one of you was going to bring it up)

Control the classes and Im all for 10% of the fastes riders times, that wouldnt worry me because with controls in place I would be there.

[jrandom]

Anyone notice Paul Pavletich's letter in this month's BRM expressing his strong support for the idea of a production 600s class?

Bring something like that in, and there's your space on the grid for all the guys who can't afford $50-$100K per year on racing but can ride well enough to qualify if they're not hampered by their equipment.

:niceone:

[boomer]

i dont really agree with the "must be within 10% of the fastest riders time But I can see the reasoning behind it.
my fastest lap in the tards was 58 sec, Darryl Atkins was 51 sec's (at wangas) about half the field wouldnt have made it to 10% of his lap time it would have resulted in about 16 riders odd actually competing, and those 16 riders are without doubt ones with the biggest Modification jobs on their machines (in Motards) 450? my arse, 525? BS 580 cc, so it seems to me that the ones up front are mostly those with big bore machines and expensive add ons some legal some not.

There are no controls on engine mods etc in Motards

Now if the classes had a essences of control and regulation then I wouldnt have a problem with ensuring the feild is within 10% of the fastest riders time, but if the fastest rider has every engine and bike modification possible then its hardly fair is it? until they do stipulate some controls in the classes I wouldnt support it.

And their are a couple of machines leading the Motard field which are completely not legal, so why should I have to be within 10% of them?

I know also that this argument would apply to the rest of the classes as well in varying degrees.

It seems to me that those up front (not discounting their personal talent) do without doubt have extremely highly tuned machines which without doubt give them a huge advantage over the rest of us................................... sorry what did you say???? I can also spend $100k on my bike..........lol yeah right !! so racing is then for the elite and rich? that argument dont wash sorry (whichever one of you was going to bring it up)

Control the classes and Im all for 10% of the fastes riders times, that wouldnt worry me because with controls in place I would be there.

thats why i said class.. you should be in super stock with the other moaners.. i dont have enough power.. someone stole my ponies.. i need a bigger cheque book...??! :p

and i figure JRandoms way of thinking ( fooked if i can understand teh prick ) is there's safety in numbers...??!! bwaahahahahah What ever nub ! This isn't cycle fookin Taupo

[boomer]

yep. agree totally - but the people you encourage into the sport need to have the opportunity to learn how to race safely and not just jump in at the deep end and only doing 3 meetings just to get the stamp so they can ride wanganui

grids at vicclub rounds are already full - it would be almost impossible to get more people into those rounds, but what if they ran a specific novice race?

why don't more people enter the cliffhanger hillclimb? is it because there are no crowds and joe public hasn't heard of it. riding at wanganui gives you bragging rights - eve if you can't ride for shit :)

agreed.. as long as people are competitive in there class.. imagine Strouds face when he see JRandom Et al wobbling around the track.. he'd weee in his jesus dockers ! get more people involved that are capable but have some cutoff.. otherwise it would ( and it sounds like it is ) mayhem.... !


im still laughing at Random thinking hes capable... lollies

[Quasievil]

thats why i said class.. you should be in super stock with the other moaners.. i dont have enough power.. someone stole my ponies.. i need a bigger cheque book...??! :p

and i figure JRandoms way of thinking ( fooked if i can understand teh prick ) is there's safety in numbers...??!! bwaahahahahah What ever nub ! This isn't cycle fookin Taupo

Who is Moaning ??

I run a legal bike and Im going to buy a Akropovic which will give me the max HP I can get out of a stock (though already highly race breed) engine.
One thing I wont be doing is putting a 580 big bore kit in it and entering it as a 525.

[boomer]

Who is Moaning ??

I run a legal bike and Im going to buy a Akropovic which will give me the max HP I can get out of a stock (though already highly race breed) engine.
One thing I wont be doing is putting a 580 big bore kit in it and entering it as a 525.

I'm the pommie.. so it must be me :baby: there needs to be rules mate to provide some course of safety. life's not fair sometimes.

[SixPackBack]

i dont really agree with the "must be within 10% of the fastest riders time But I can see the reasoning behind it.
my fastest lap in the tards was 58 sec, Darryl Atkins was 51 sec's (at wangas) about half the field wouldnt have made it to 10% of his lap time it would have resulted in about 16 riders odd actually competing, and those 16 riders are without doubt ones with the biggest Modification jobs on their machines (in Motards) 450? my arse, 525? BS 580 cc, so it seems to me that the ones up front are mostly those with big bore machines and expensive add ons some legal some not.

There are no controls on engine mods etc in Motards

Now if the classes had a essences of control and regulation then I wouldnt have a problem with ensuring the feild is within 10% of the fastest riders time, but if the fastest rider has every engine and bike modification possible then its hardly fair is it? until they do stipulate some controls in the classes I wouldnt support it.

And their are a couple of machines leading the Motard field which are completely not legal, so why should I have to be within 10% of them?

I know also that this argument would apply to the rest of the classes as well in varying degrees.

It seems to me that those up front (not discounting their personal talent) do without doubt have extremely highly tuned machines which without doubt give them a huge advantage over the rest of us................................... sorry what did you say???? I can also spend $100k on my bike..........lol yeah right !! so racing is then for the elite and rich? that argument dont wash sorry (whichever one of you was going to bring it up)

Control the classes and Im all for 10% of the fastes riders times, that wouldnt worry me because with controls in place I would be there.

To many of us excuses about lack of power are just that-excuses!.........cool watching you racing at Wanganui Brett, but with all due respect a lot more than a few extra horsepower separates the mid fielders from the front runners.
The superbikes, 600's and motards had a few real stars well in front of the pack, the rest of the field making up the numbers [and being lapped!?]. You only have to look at Glen Williams to see talent can make up for a significant lack of power against the opposition, and/or Rossi moving from Honda to Yamaha and kicking arse on his first excursion.
Safety?.....as a spectator I care not. Individuals prepare their bikes, pay their money and turn up on the day to do the best they can. Road racing is a dangerous sport that carries a strong possibility of personal or property damage-be prepared to get hurt/have your equipment wrecked, or stay at home.

[Quasievil]

To many of us excuses about lack of power are just that-excuses!.........cool watching you racing at Wanganui Brett, but with all due respect a lot more than a few extra horsepower separates the mid fielders from the front runners.


Yes the top fielders are of course more talented and have better skills however I dont agree with the excuses scenario, take the full circuit at Manfeild, where there is 3 reasonably long straights, its about horsepower
not just skill in many respects actually, Im not neccesarily talking about me either. Look At Pukekohe and tell me its not about horsepower?
Example, me on my 45.4 hp motard racing you on a GSXR1000 is it skill or HP?
Remember the point, if you are going to restrict those more than 10% off the fastest riders pace then thats fine but having some controls at the same time I think it would be fairer.
45.4 hp on my bike vs some at 70hp there is an distinct advantage.
For example again at the VMCC round 5 I had better skills than many on the corners but the straights they left me for dead.
considering its in the same class and you think its an excuse? its a fact sorry, for me I dont give a toss where I come but I wouldnt want to be excluded due to not being able to keep up to the pace of a $100k super worked on machine ridden by the #4 in USA? is that where you think the NZ racing scence should be? I dont, and as a safety risk if a faster rider cannot get past the tail end charlies safely then thats going to be neglete on his part isnt it, as far as I recall the onus is on the overtaker to execute a safe manouver.

[enigma51]

Yes the top fielders are of course more talented and have better skills however I dont agree with the excuses scenario, take the full circuit at Manfeild, where there is 3 reasonably long straights, its about horsepower
not just skill in many respects actually, Im not neccesarily talking about me either. Look At Pukekohe and tell me its not about horsepower?
Example, me on my 45.4 hp motard racing you on a GSXR1000 is it skill or HP?
Remember the point, if you are going to restrict those more than 10% off the fastest riders pace then thats fine but having some controls at the same time I think it would be fairer.
45.4 hp on my bike vs some at 70hp there is an distinct advantage.
For example again at the VMCC round 5 I had better skills than many on the corners but the straights they left me for dead.
considering its in the same class and you think its an excuse? its a fact sorry, for me I dont give a toss where I come but I wouldnt want to be excluded due to not being able to keep up to the pace of a $100k super worked on machine ridden by the #4 in USA? is that where you think the NZ racing scence should be? I dont, and as a safety risk if a faster rider cannot get past the tail end charlies safely then thats going to be neglete on his part isnt it, as far as I recall the onus is on the overtaker to execute a safe manouver.

I told you fuckers before lack of power is brians excuse now leave it alone! Find your own excuses

[SixPackBack]

Yes the top fielders are of course more talented and have better skills however I dont agree with the excuses scenario, take the full circuit at Manfeild, where there is 3 reasonably long straights, its about horsepower
not just skill in many respects actually, Im not neccesarily talking about me either. Look At Pukekohe and tell me its not about horsepower?
Example, me on my 45.4 hp motard racing you on a GSXR1000 is it skill or HP?
Remember the point, if you are going to restrict those more than 10% off the fastest riders pace then thats fine but having some controls at the same time I think it would be fairer.
45.4 hp on my bike vs some at 70hp there is an distinct advantage.
For example again at the VMCC round 5 I had better skills than many on the corners but the straights they left me for dead.
considering its in the same class and you think its an excuse? its a fact sorry, for me I dont give a toss where I come but I wouldnt want to be excluded due to not being able to keep up to the pace of a $100k super worked on machine ridden by the #4 in USA? is that where you think the NZ racing scence should be? I dont, and as a safety risk if a faster rider cannot get past the tail end charlies safely then thats going to be neglete on his part isnt it, as far as I recall the onus is on the overtaker to execute a safe manouver.

I accept your point of view Brett. The point about the front running $100K super motard is a valid one. For the record I doubt my K6 would stay ahead of your motard around Taupo......... which kind of comes back to my point, talent and experience are just as important if not more so-are they not?
Seeing individuals and friends from KB getting on to the track and giving it a go are payment enough, we are aware of the many issues surrounding racing that start with a level playing field [something that only exists in the upper echelon of racing] and end with exceptionally talented racers that are few and far between.

[McDuck]

I told you fuckers before lack of power is brians excuse now leave it alone! Find your own excuses

I think it is a fair point.... if another bike has a third more hp than yours it will be faster. But there is also the fact that a skilled person may be sponcered bike?

[Quasievil]

interestingly, D Atkins was 1 second off the fastest F1 bike, he would have been dicing with Jared Love and Hayden Fitzgerald

[Shaun]

I thought this thread was about safety issues, not who has the biggest wallet or an illegal bike as you say Quasi. I started the thread out of genuine safety issues, I am sure you can understand that, and leave it alone eh please

[Quasievil]

I thought this thread was about safety issues, not who has the biggest wallet or an illegal bike as you say Quasi. I started the thread out of genuine safety issues, I am sure you can understand that, and leave it alone eh please

That would make it the only KB thread to stay on track.......cant have that can we.

[Shaun]

That would make it the only KB thread to stay on track.......cant have that can we.


I here ya mate, but there are a couple of officual important people reading it, and we really do need to try and stay focused, before our street race scene is shut down for good, due to a lot of the stupid dumb stuff that goes on in the road scene mate.

The 60zzz are well gone!

[Quasievil]

I here ya mate, but there are a couple of officual important people reading it, and we really do need to try and stay focused, before our street race scene is shut down for good, due to a lot of the stupid dumb stuff that goes on in the road scene mate.

The 60zzz are well gone!

Sweet as dude sorry

[crazefox]

yeah, i'm labeled (and rightly so) 'a crasher', but riddle me this...how many events, over what time frame have you done between fucking yourself up beyond all recognition, and wanganui shaun?

This thread is bullshit wrapped in silk. Having a whinge in the name of safety just for the fucking sake of it. Go work for osh, or perhaps get them to sponsor you.

Sad

ha ha your da man drew

[jellywrestler]

maybe if wanganui actually had practice sessions at their meeting riders may be safer over the whole day?????

[Quasievil]

maybe if wanganui actually had practice sessions at their meeting riders may be safer over the whole day?????

They do, two in fact

[jellywrestler]

They do, two in fact

Sorry mate, they're not practice sessions they're qualifying sessions and as such little different to any other race hence riders are not taking the time to learn the circuit and try different set ups/ lines etc instead just going as fast as they can to get a good grid.
Sounds like a race to me!!!!!!!!

[Kickaha]

Sorry mate, they're not practice sessions they're qualifying sessions and as such little different to any other race hence riders are not taking the time to learn the circuit and try different set ups/ lines etc instead just going as fast as they can to get a good grid.
Sounds like a race to me!!!!!!!!

My understanding is the first session is practice the second is qualifying

Two sessions makes it no worse than than what we get for nationals anyway

[sidecar bob]

My understanding is the first session is practice the second is qualifying

Two sessions makes it no worse than than what we get for nationals anyway

Both sessions are timed & count towards qualifying. People will go hard in the first session because conditions may change for the second session (rain, track temp etc) which may result in a slower time.
With regard to the nationals, we have a full two days avaliable prior to race day for practice & setup.
some need it & some dont.

[Kickaha]

Both sessions are timed & count towards qualifying.

Last yearwe were told told the first session was practice and didn't count towards qualifying, thats why there was a bitchfight last year when they changed it to suit some of the teams who didn't go out in the 2nd session

[jellywrestler]

My understanding is the first session is practice the second is qualifying



Two sessions makes it no worse than than what we get for nationals anyway

Both morning "practice" sessions were qualifying sessions.

One can hire any national championship track almost any time of the year. There are also test days on the friday prior to race weekend something not available at a street circuit so its an entirely different case.
The nature of the cemetery means ones grid position is a lot more influential on ones race outcome than on our wide open race tracks. Riders know this and take extra risks in practice as well as not spending this time trying different lines etc that they may need later in the day hence a high incident rate I believe

[Kickaha]

Both morning "practice" sessions were qualifying sessions.

Did they change that after their fuck up last year?



The nature of the cemetery means ones grid position is a lot more influential on ones race outcome than on our wide open race tracks. Riders know this and take extra risks in practice as well as not spending this time trying different lines etc that they may need later in the day hence a high incident rate I believe

Unless it is made a two day meeting or classes or race distance is cut it is not practical to do it any different than it is now

[jellywrestler]

Unless it is made a two day meeting or classes or race distance is cut it is not practical to do it any different than it is now[/QUOTE]

the answer is to set the grids before the day starts and let what time is available for practice be used for practice-- not a balls out race for some to qualify.

[McDuck]

the answer is to set the grids before the day starts and let what time is available for practice be used for practice-- not a balls out race for some to qualify.

How? <bgfgfgf>

[jellywrestler]

How? <bgfgfgf>
Like it was done in the past before transponders. Knowledgable people sat down and looked at entry lists, previous experience on the cemetery and other circuits, machine capabilities and set grids to suit. There were certainally less grizzles and problems as there are nowadays.
The whole object is to spread ensure a safe passage through the first corner and then let the race sort itself out.
There have been at least two seroius incidents on the first corner in recent years where front row candidates have had a bad practice and pushed there way through only to cause carnage and also the weather issues in 2007 which saw riders on incorrect tyres after a sudden downpour and while were faced with the decision to risk life and limb to go out and qualify on unsuitable equipment or miss out. This would not have been an issue if the grids were set before the meeting.
Check out all the comments on paeroa's grids this year, they were posted the day before, not a patch on those after Wanganui only weeks before
Its all about safety in the end

[Shaun P]

Like it was done in the past before transponders. Knowledgable people sat down and looked at entry lists, previous experience on the cemetery and other circuits, machine capabilities and set grids to suit. There were certainally less grizzles and problems as there are nowadays.
The whole object is to spread ensure a safe passage through the first corner and then let the race sort itself out.
There have been at least two seroius incidents on the first corner in recent years where front row candidates have had a bad practice and pushed there way through only to cause carnage and also the weather issues in 2007 which saw riders on incorrect tyres after a sudden downpour and while were faced with the decision to risk life and limb to go out and qualify on unsuitable equipment or miss out. This would not have been an issue if the grids were set before the meeting.
Check out all the comments on paeroa's grids this year, they were posted the day before, not a patch on those after Wanganui only weeks before
Its all about safety in the end

They are based on Wanganui positions and are also adjusted thru the day at Paeroa as required. So also if you dont do wanganui u r disadvantged

[Kickaha]

There have been at least two seroius incidents on the first corner in recent years where front row candidates have had a bad practice and pushed there way through only to cause carnage

So front row candidates had two bad practices which put them back down the grid? maybe they're not as good as they think then :bleh:

Those crashes were caused because the riders involved made poor decisions, that can happen regardless of grid position

How long ago was it done at Wangas in the way you suggest?
How long has Paeroa set the grids that way and do they change them during the day?



and also the weather issues in 2007 which saw riders on incorrect tyres after a sudden downpour and while were faced with the decision to risk life and limb to go out and qualify on unsuitable equipment or miss out.

Yet some of us who weren't in the big teams with heaps of manpower were easily able to change the tyres in the time allowed to put the rider out on suitable tyres for the conditions

[jellywrestler]

So front row candidates had two bad practices which put them back down the grid? maybe they're not as good as they think then :bleh:

########we all make mistakes my writings here are to attain some feedback on what is the best way to limit those mistakes. Also when those people made those errors other people were taken out and injured. No system will be perfect but I beleive there are more flaws in the way they grid now as opposed to preset grids done by a knowledgable team##########

Those crashes were caused because the riders involved made poor decisions, that can happen regardless of grid position.
########Not so, the aim is to get the fastest people up front to ensure the safest start possible, theres a lot of Ifs up until that first corner and indeed ones ability on a whole lap doesn't neccesarily reflect their and their bikes ability in a 400metre drag race. Why two years ago at wanganui was there a 650cc twin with mini tyres further up the grid than an LCR 1100cc big fat slick tyred monster with probably 6 times the horsepower? and if a Coroner was ever pointed out these differences they would certainally look twice at them.
Its common sense, let pratice be practice, not another race.##########

How long ago was it done at Wangas in the way you suggest?


#########50 plus years##########

How long has Paeroa set the grids that way and do they change them during the day?

#######not sure, can anyone provide an informed answer please########




Yet some of us who weren't in the big teams with heaps of manpower were easily able to change the tyres in the time allowed to put the rider out on suitable tyres for the conditions

##########emotions, I'm more interested to here logical discussion here rather than whose mate benefitted/was disadvantaged##########

[Kickaha]

##########emotions, I'm more interested to here logical discussion here rather than whose mate benefitted/was disadvantaged##########


and also the weather issues in 2007 which saw riders on incorrect tyres after a sudden downpour and while were faced with the decision to risk life and limb to go out and qualify on unsuitable equipment or miss out.

No emotion involved at all, just pointing out your post was bullshit, because if we could do it in the time provided then anyone else could have as well

Of course if they knew what was said at riders briefing woudn't apply to them then why would they need to go out

So long as there is provision to change the grid position during the day I can't see any problem with your idea, although personally I'm not that sure it will cut the amount of accidents, people will still do dumb shit regardless

How may T1 incidents off the start were there this year?

How many have there been in previous years?

How many were caused by what you see as incorrect gridding?

How many race incidents were caused by new riders?

How many licence signings did they have?

How many involved more than one rider?

[wharfy]

Here goes "I" think that the current rules for Wanganui are OK, if they are applied to everyone equally. Riders have to LISTEN at the riders briefing, the black flag should be USED when riders fuck up. The 110% qualifying rule should be applied (with maybe some adjustment to suit the circuit). Mandatory newbie familiarization mandatory 2 yellow flag laps each practice and maybe the introduction of newbie T-Shirts.

However if the 110% rule was applied the fields would be drastically reduced. After visiting mylaps getting the merged qualifying times and doing some sums (which I admit I am not very good at and stand to be corrected) here is what Wanaganui grids would look like.

Class Number of bikes
F1 16
600 16
F3 10
Bears 17
Posties 12
Motard 16

Would 10's of thousands of people pay $30 to watch such small fields ?

Wanganui seems to negate some of the advantages that horsepower usually has but magnify the advantages of skill and experience.
Glen Williams is probably about 100 horsepower down on the top F1 bikes but was 12th fastest round the circuit.
Perhaps a formula Wanganui (with A & B classes if needed) based solely on lap times to give more people the opportunity to race.
Having done it once I think EVERYONE who races should be able to do Wanganui it is an AWESOME event

[Quasievil]

no emotion involved at all, just pointing out your post was bullshit,


bwaaaaaaahhhhhhh !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Quasievil]

I think it would be alot safer if we all rode slower, maybe enforce the 50kmph rule ??
Motorsport would be a safer thing in this way

[Drew]

Calm down powl, " I know that sounds funny coming from me"

I did 7 test days and raced at Manfeild before Wanganui.



Did ya stay all day at any of them, or toss your toys and bugger off 'cos you could have run them better?

And do track days count as experience for all those of us less worthy to be on the track than you? Plenty of guys ride like muppets at them and think they are race ready when perhaps they are not.

Can I have a show of hands from all those people who I've "nearly taken out" as you say happened to you Shaun. If I'm gonna try something stupid to get round a bend faster, I invariably do it on the outside so as not to endanger others, that wouldn't be a show of experience and forethought would it?

[jrandom]

Can I have a show of hands from all those people who I've "nearly taken out"...

*half the females in Wellington chime in requesting a definition of 'nearly', etc*

[malcy25]

what amazes me and ALL the overseas races i talked to while ... overseas...
was the fact that joe bloggs can BUY a race license and a new F1 race bike and enter ANY F1 race in NZ with NO experience.....
hell even i could do that... would YOU want ME racing in that class???

Unfortunately I don't have my current (semi current as I'm still waiting for the new one I paid for 5 months back and the latest one is "packed" for racing) MNZ rule book with me, but the same rule that states (did state in the one I have!), that a rider has to have competed in 3 lower level event for national or street meeting events. So technically you can't rock up to a national Meeting with your spankers Prod Superbike as your first, second or third event.

Sean: Okay so you nearly got taken out which would have been a bugger given you are just climbing back uop the ladder. However Did you talk to anyone about it like the MNZ steward? As they can follow shit like that up with a possibility he/she will be watched at the next event or other action as deemed necessary can be taken so they don't do it again? may seem like a wet bus ticket, BUT, getting ramdom danerous shit on record means that repetition will get noticed.

Civil Licences required: I know a couple of riders who rode at Paeroa a few years back and didn't have a civil motorcycle licence. Lost the MNZ one for a number of months when they got caught.

Happy new year folks. :blink:

[Shaun]

Did ya stay all day at any of them, or toss your toys and bugger off 'cos you could have run them better?

And do track days count as experience for all those of us less worthy to be on the track than you? Plenty of guys ride like muppets at them and think they are race ready when perhaps they are not.

Can I have a show of hands from all those people who I've "nearly taken out" as you say happened to you Shaun. If I'm gonna try something stupid to get round a bend faster, I invariably do it on the outside so as not to endanger others, that wouldn't be a show of experience and forethought would it?



Why are you taking this so personally and being so insulting Drew?

[Shaun]

[QUOTE=malcy25;1873537]Unfortunately I don't have my current (semi current as I'm still waiting for the new one I paid for 5 months back and the latest one is "packed" for racing) MNZ rule book with me, but the same rule that states (did state in the one I have!), that a rider has to have competed in 3 lower level event for national or street meeting events. So technically you can't rock up to a national Meeting with your spankers Prod Superbike as your first, second or third event.

Sean: Okay so you nearly got taken out which would have been a bugger given you are just climbing back uop the ladder. However Did you talk to anyone about it like the MNZ steward? As they can follow shit like that up with a possibility he/she will be watched at the next event or other action as deemed necessary can be taken so they don't do it again? may seem like a wet bus ticket, BUT, getting ramdom danerous shit on record means that repetition will get noticed.

To aswnser the above question "YES" the move was very silly and dangerous

[Drew]

Why are you taking this so personally and being so insulting Drew?

Dunno really, your first post just irked me, my reply was undoubtedly over the top and pointless. But dont try playin the innocent here, your reply was as insulting as anything I've said.

Fuck it, who cares anyway?

I've got a race bike for this season, and I'll be out there havin fun.

Peace out.

[malcy25]

To aswnser the above question "YES" the move was very silly and dangerous

Sean

Is that:
1) yes the move was silly and dangerous
or
2) yes I reported it so the guys log book could be noted or the MNZ steward could issue an infringment notice (yes they exist), of which a copy will be given to the rider and one goes to MNZ so they can record the fact. If they get another serious incident or near miss reported again

Cos' if you don't report bad or dangerous riding, you are passively endorsing it by letting them get away with it. They do it again and you haven't reported it, have you helped or hindered the potential for it to be corrected so someone doesn't get hurt later?

As much as the riders bitch about MNZ and the stewards, they are there for this sort of stuff. But they can't everywhere and they can't see everything to try and catch it so there will always be a reliance of the riders themselves to bring stuff to the their attention to be investigated.

As a side note to get a race licence in the UK nowdays I hear each applicant has a one day course taken at the ACU offices in Rugby by Clive Horton - 70's / 80's GP and TT rider with a multi choice test at the end.

As much as you can test for "knowledge" before a licvence is granted, testing for skills and common sense on the track is not so easy....

[Shaun]

Sean

Is that:
1) yes the move was silly and dangerous
or
2) yes I reported it so the guys log book could be noted or the MNZ steward could issue an infringment notice (yes they exist), of which a copy will be given to the rider and one goes to MNZ so they can record the fact. If they get another serious incident or near miss reported again

Cos' if you don't report bad or dangerous riding, you are passively endorsing it by letting them get away with it. They do it again and you haven't reported it, have you helped or hindered the potential for it to be corrected so someone doesn't get hurt later?

As much as the riders bitch about MNZ and the stewards, they are there for this sort of stuff. But they can't everywhere and they can't see everything to try and catch it so there will always be a reliance of the riders themselves to bring stuff to the their attention to be investigated.

As a side note to get a race licence in the UK nowdays I hear each applicant has a one day course taken at the ACU offices in Rugby by Clive Horton - 70's / 80's GP and TT rider with a multi choice test at the end.

As much as you can test for "knowledge" before a licvence is granted, testing for skills and common sense on the track is not so easy....



The rider i have mentioned, was spoken to on the day by officualls, that is all I know about it

[CHOPPA]

Like it was done in the past before transponders. Knowledgable people sat down and looked at entry lists, previous experience on the cemetery and other circuits, machine capabilities and set grids to suit. There were certainally less grizzles and problems as there are nowadays.
The whole object is to spread ensure a safe passage through the first corner and then let the race sort itself out.
There have been at least two seroius incidents on the first corner in recent years where front row candidates have had a bad practice and pushed there way through only to cause carnage and also the weather issues in 2007 which saw riders on incorrect tyres after a sudden downpour and while were faced with the decision to risk life and limb to go out and qualify on unsuitable equipment or miss out. This would not have been an issue if the grids were set before the meeting.
Check out all the comments on paeroa's grids this year, they were posted the day before, not a patch on those after Wanganui only weeks before
Its all about safety in the end

Na timed qualifying and no special rules for anyone!

[Shaun]

Dunno really, your first post just irked me, my reply was undoubtedly over the top and pointless. But dont try playin the innocent here, your reply was as insulting as anything I've said.

Fuck it, who cares anyway?

I've got a race bike for this season, and I'll be out there havin fun.

Peace out.



Fare enough, I guess 2 hotheads on the same internet is gunna cause clashes some times eh

[malcy25]

The rider i have mentioned, was spoken to on the day by officualls, that is all I know about itCheers Shaun, thanks for confirming that. :niceone:

[White trash]

Shaun.

I've read, reread, then re-reread this thread. Mate, I don't aggree. Sorry.

The rider that blatantly pulled out on you, was a non thinking fuckwit. We've all had the pleasure of racing with them. I don't think any number of races in the twelve months leading up to the event would have changed his split second decision to rejoin then and there.

For such a blatant disregard for the saftey of his feloow competitors, he should have suffered a twelve month licence ban and a two year suspension from street racing in New Zealand. A "talking to" does not suffice.

In regards to whether or not you need a certain amount of meetings in those twelve months leading to an event, I don't think so. Entries would fall, promoters would lose money, the events would die. Love him hate him (I know you're not mates :) ), Lance Lowe has not competed for two years now due to injury, neither has Pete McDonald. I for one would have no problem sharing the track with these two competitors as they both know how to race, without endagering their fellow competitors.

[slowpoke]

Shaun.

I've read, reread, then re-reread this thread. Mate, I don't aggree. Sorry.

The rider that blatantly pulled out on you, was a non thinking fuckwit. We've all had the pleasure of racing with them. I don't think any number of races in the twelve months leading up to the event would have changed his split second decision to rejoin then and there.

For such a blatant disregard for the saftey of his feloow competitors, he should have suffered a twelve month licence ban and a two year suspension from street racing in New Zealand. A "talking to" does not suffice.

In regards to whether or not you need a certain amount of meetings in those twelve months leading to an event, I don't think so. Entries would fall, promoters would lose money, the events would die. Love him hate him (I know you're not mates :) ), Lance Lowe has not competed for two years now due to injury, neither has Pete McDonald. I for one would have no problem sharing the track with these two competitors as they both know how to race, without endagering their fellow competitors.

Cor, you're a hard bastard Jimmy!

As you say, it's a split second decision, a bad one, and he is probably still ashamed of it. From Jay's Teretonga report it sounds like Dennis Charlett did something similar, would you send him to the naughty seat for 12 months?

We are all human, and all make crap decisions in the heat of the moment. Generally lessons are learned (an official: "What the fuck were you thinkin, pal?!" helps here) and we don't repeat them. Obviously if the lessons aren't learned and mistakes are repeated then I'd fully endorse the "Mair Punishment Protocol".

These problems can also be a learning for other riders, with the issue highlighted to riders DURING THE MEETING. It wouldn't take 5 minutes to get all riders to a quick briefing and have a major issue highlighted. Guarantee it wouldn't happen again that meeting. As it is, if I wasn't on KB I wouldn't even know it had happened.

[Shaun]

Cor, you're a hard bastard Jimmy!


These problems can also be a learning for other riders, with the issue highlighted to riders DURING THE MEETING. It wouldn't take 5 minutes to get all riders to a quick briefing and have a major issue highlighted. Guarantee it wouldn't happen again that meeting. As it is, if I wasn't on KB I wouldn't even know it had happened.



You hit the nail on the head Dude, well done:wari:

This site is full of good and wanta be good riders, the reason behind my post was to MAKE some think about what they are doing, we are responsible forourself and every other rider on the track

[j-lo69]

in regards to civil licsence your lerners is classed as a full with restrictions. mnz ruleing is not up to date with the new civil rules. an to the fact of just turning up an riding after not riding an thinking its ok is a load of bull!!. the guys out in front are there 4 a reason and when they come across guys wobbling in practice an laped riders in races its bloody dangerous because there race craft is unpredictable an some times very eraxtic. the amount of times iv seen guys come togerther with slower unexperenced or rusty riders resulting in near misses or big crashes makes my spine tingle. this whole shell be right attitude has gota b stoped an the raceing taken more seriously!!!!

[j-lo69]

Shaun.

I've read, reread, then re-reread this thread. Mate, I don't aggree. Sorry.

The rider that blatantly pulled out on you, was a non thinking fuckwit. We've all had the pleasure of racing with them. I don't think any number of races in the twelve months leading up to the event would have changed his split second decision to rejoin then and there.

For such a blatant disregard for the saftey of his feloow competitors, he should have suffered a twelve month licence ban and a two year suspension from street racing in New Zealand. A "talking to" does not suffice.

In regards to whether or not you need a certain amount of meetings in those twelve months leading to an event, I don't think so. Entries would fall, promoters would lose money, the events would die. Love him hate him (I know you're not mates :) ), Lance Lowe has not competed for two years now due to injury, neither has Pete McDonald. I for one would have no problem sharing the track with these two competitors as they both know how to race, without endagering their fellow competitors.



your the dumbest racer i know mabyes thats explains y you cant keep the bike up right for more than 2 races. have to give you one thing tho your the fasest man in the pits

[Drew]

the guys out in front are there 4 a reason and when they come across guys wobbling in practice an laped riders in races its bloody dangerous because there race craft is unpredictable an some times very eraxtic. the amount of times iv seen guys come togerther with slower unexperenced or rusty riders resulting in near misses or big crashes makes my spine tingle. this whole shell be right attitude has gota b stoped an the raceing taken more seriously!!!!Fast does not mean experienced, all the experienced guys I've watched tend to use lap traffic, and do well to predict the next move of slower guys. So your point here is kinda bullshit.


your the dumbest racer i know mabyes thats explains y you cant keep the bike up right for more than 2 races. have to give you one thing tho your the fasest man in the pits

His diction/gramma certainly implies he's not as thick as you come across.

[Sully60]

Fast does not mean experienced, all the experienced guys I've watched tend to use lap traffic, and do well to predict the next move of slower guys. So your point here is kinda bullshit.

I have to disagree to some extent there Drew. Although it applies less at national level, when there's a mix of ability and bike speeds things can get unpredicatble rather quickly. Ever been passed by an early braker on a faster bike that pulls back on to your line? You don't get half a lap to see that coming and having to slow you bike on someone elses time ain't the most fun experience.




His diction/gramma certainly implies he's not as thick as you come across.

I have to agree to the fullest extent there Drew!

[Drew]

[quote=Sully60;1892285]I have to disagree to some extent there Drew. Although it applies less at national level when there's a mix of ability and bike speeds things can get unpredicatble rather quickly. Ever been passed by an early braker on a fast bike that pulls back on to your line? You don't get half a lap to see that coming and having to slow you bike on someone elses time ain't the most fun experience.[quote]

Sure have, but I've also had the door slammed in my face by one of the most experienced/talanted riders in F3, and had to take equaly evasive measures noit to pile straight into his back wheel.

Just saying that generalisations are a mistake when talking about racing incidents.

[j-lo69]

as it says nxt to your picture need i say anymore about you. fast, exp whateva the point is that raceing would be safer if the whole group of riders could stay on the same lap or when being laped can hold a line not ahve 3 goes at a couner leaving the passing guy commiting to somthing that can result badly. this is only a few that do this most slower guys are good and that makes passing and racing safe. drew you sound like you are one of these guys wobbling around since you ahve taken great offence sry that the truth hurts. there needs to be a time percentage from 1st to last like at nationals. even the 110% at nationals isnt rite. rnd 1 of nats has showen this were laped riders were caught up b4 half race point an resulted in guys getting run off the track therefore wrecked there race an championship. its something that has cost many top riders race wins or worst D.N.F.s. the blue flag also needs to be used v.m.c.c. seem to be only ones that have realised this.

[wharfy]

Just saying that generalisations are a mistake when talking about racing incidents.

Indeed, but back to the incident that spawned this topic. At their riders briefing the Vic Club went to great lengths to emphasize the danger of re-joining a race and/or trying to get back to the pits. This seemed to work OK I don't recall seeing (or hearing of) any such incidents during the entire winter series (that doesn't mean it didn't happen of course).

Maybe it's because I am a comparative newbie, but I don't think that riders (or organizers of some meetings) take the riders briefing seriously enough. All riders should know what the safety rules are but they should be spelled out LOUD and CLEAR at the riders briefing.

[j-lo69]

vic club have got it sorted an its a credit to them. but they have lernt from bad experence

[McDuck]

vic club have got it sorted an its a credit to them. but they have lernt from bad experence

There arnt many sectors that dont need a bad experience to lern.

[Drew]

drew you sound like you are one of these guys wobbling around since you ahve taken great offence sry that the truth hurts.

That's me alright, slow as hell with no clue what way the next corner goes.

[Tony.OK]

That's me alright, slow as hell with no clue what way the next corner goes.

Now Drew I know thats not true.......................I personally have seen you studying corners.....
.from over the wrong side rumble strip
.from sliding through the corner
.from ground level
.and even trying to taste the gravel in the kitty litter to make sure its suitable for its intended purpose
:whistle::whistle::whistle::crazy:

Sorry couldn't resist:Oops:

Ya gonna bring the RF to Paeroa mate?

[Drew]

Now Drew I know thats not true.......................I personally have seen you studying corners......from over the wrong side rumble strip And what were our finish positions after my excursion over the bumps bro?



Ya gonna bring the RF to Paeroa mate?

Gixxer 1100 in post classics bro. So watch for me wobbling my way round the corners gettin in every bodys way, I'll exploit the fact that I can still race the streets, when I'm told I dont have enough experience. (Provided they are doing pre '89 of course).

[Tony.OK]

And what were our finish positions after my excursion over the bumps bro?

I'm sorry but I have no recollection of how that finished..........are you sure I was there?:girlfight:


Gixxer 1100 in post classics bro. So watch for me wobbling my way round the corners gettin in every bodys way, I'll exploit the fact that I can still race the streets, when I'm told I dont have enough experience. (Provided they are doing pre '89 of course).

Shit hot mate............you'll be coming to Frenchy's pyjama party on Sat in the pits then?:banana:

[White trash]

your the dumbest racer i know mabyes thats explains y you cant keep the bike up right for more than 2 races. have to give you one thing tho your the fasest man in the pits
Dumbest racer? Is that why you packed up went home last AMCC series when the "no bodys" and the 600s gave you a hiding?

Lol. You don't know me. In fact, you've never so much as said hi. As for keeping bikes upright, my partners scraped you off the track into the back of a meat wagon a couple of times now.

You sure have a big chip on your shoulder for someone who's not done a lot recently either J. That knock on the head a couple of years back must have done more damage than I thought, at least I can type a legible (wanna dictionary) sentence.

By the way, I thought J'Lo was a bitch with a big, fat black arse? You're not black......

Get back to me when you've got game. Booouuuuuuy. :D

[wbks]

Oh no he di'int!

[Frenchy]

your the dumbest racer i know mabyes thats explains y you cant keep the bike up right for more than 2 races. have to give you one thing tho your the fasest man in the pits
thats a little harsh!! aren't we all wanting the same thing here?? fun safe racing??
WT does a good victory wheele tho!!! :shit:


Shit hot mate............you'll be coming to Frenchy's pyjama party on Sat in the pits then?:banana:

Invites only sorry can't just have any wobbly racer turning up!! :oi-grr:

[j-lo69]

Dumbest racer? Is that why you packed up went home last AMCC series when the "no bodys" and the 600s gave you a hiding?

Lol. You don't know me. In fact, you've never so much as said hi. As for keeping bikes upright, my partners scraped you off the track into the back of a meat wagon a couple of times now.

You sure have a big chip on your shoulder for someone who's not done a lot recently either J. That knock on the head a couple of years back must have done more damage than I thought, at least I can type a legible (wanna dictionary) sentence.

By the way, I thought J'Lo was a bitch with a big, fat black arse? You're not black......

Get back to me when you've got game. Booouuuuuuy. :D

you and your brother make me laugh when you think im jarod love. you guys are der derh um smart.
is that better english for ya???
:girlfight:

[scracha]

1st to last like at nationals. even the 110% at nationals isnt rite. rnd 1 of nats has showen this were laped riders were caught

So what do you propose oh offensive one? Exclude riders "wobbling around" like myself and half the field would be gone. If exceptionally talented demi-god riders like yourself are so concerned about safety then feel free to start your own series. I guarantee there would be a handful of bikes (much less than the already pitiful number of bikes currently in the Nationals) and you'd be paying ten times the entry fees.


It appears that your school never applied a 110% rule and guys like you probably held back the gifted and talented students.

[wbks]

you and your brother make me laugh when you think im jarod love. you guys are der derh um smart.
is that better english for ya???
:girlfight:You're some random pretending to be Jared Love?

[svr]

It appears that your school never applied a 110% rule and guys like you probably held back the gifted and talented students.

Is a little sad to see yet another racing thread `discussion' degenerate into a low IQ willy-waving contest between egocentric racers. At the NZ / club level it seems there is no correlation between speed and intelligence.

If KBr is supposed to be a community (?!), this one has too many Neighbours From Hell.

[roogazza]

Not nice is it SVR, but it has always gone on.
Computers/Forums dish it up in another form thats all.
There have been many who have come into the sport with the intention of slaying the world , only to fail and dissappear, just as fast as they arrived.
If J lo is Love ? Hi to dad . (Laurie , he wasn't bad either.) Gaz.

[Drew]

You're some random pretending to be Jared Love?

I'm pretty sure he's Marcus, that sponsors Jarrod Love, why else rip off his number and initials?

The 110% rule applied at manfield, to my math kicks anyone over 1m16seconds out of supersport, provided the front runner is lappin 1m09seconds. At that a guy doin just under 1m16s gets lapped on lap ten.

So just how close do you expect the racing of a 20 bike field to get j-lo69?

[White trash]

There have been many who have come into the sport with the intention of slaying the world , only to fail and dissappear, just as fast as they arrived.


Oh yeah, got any names for us?

[White trash]

you and your brother make me laugh when you think im jarod love. you guys are der derh um smart.
is that better english for ya???
:girlfight:
Put us right then.

Either way, you'd have to be a bit thick. Especially if you're going to hide your oppinions behind the pretence of being someone else.

Pretty tough.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Oh yeah, got any names for us?

Yep. 'People that at least have a go'.

Should be highly commended too.

[roogazza]

Oh yeah, got any names for us?

That's what i mean, they're not remembered , because they did nothing !
But I'm all for anyone having a go. G.

[jrandom]

Yep. 'People that at least have a go'.

From some of the discussion around here recently, you could be forgiven for thinking that such people wouldn't be welcome.

[Crasherfromwayback]

From some of the discussion around here recently, you could be forgiven for thinking that such people wouldn't be welcome.

Only by those that think they're something too 'special' mate.

They forget...we've all gotta start somewhere!

[The Speedy Sparky]

Best of luck with the continuing recovery Shaun, Yes you do have to have a civil licence to race in a road based event, be it a hill climb, standing 1/4 or road race, although I have never been asked for mine. As you are all probably aware, street racing is very dangerous, for riders as well as spectators. I have witnessed spectators jumping on the track, as mashalls stood by doing nothing, apparently texting on a mobile phone. I always think of the hay bales on fences on street circuit being like a woman, touch them with out asking nicely and they will give you one hell of a slap. If we were asked for three event stamps in a race licence, we would all have been stuffed this year, as mnz issuded a new style licence. some inexperianced people do get a bit carried away, and you learn from practice who is not going to last the first race, and who to stay out of the way of.

[Burrt Badger]

Whether you need a civil licence for Street competition is entirely controlled by the legislation used to grant the Road Closure. Paeroa , because the Road is administered and closed by Transit, the law states you must have a civil licence. It's a State Highway. Wanganui road closure is done by a local Authority, as it is not a State Highway. No Civil licence required. So it depends on who issues the Road Closure ( Transit NZ. Local Authority) as to wjhether a civil licence is required. No arguements, that is the law!!!!!!

[j-lo69]

Put us right then.

Either way, you'd have to be a bit thick. Especially if you're going to hide your oppinions behind the pretence of being someone else.

Pretty tough.

havent tried to hide anything its something that you 2 have got in your head so....:whocares:

[j-lo69]

I'm pretty sure he's Marcus, that sponsors Jarrod Love, why else rip off his number and initials?

The 110% rule applied at manfield, to my math kicks anyone over 1m16seconds out of supersport, provided the front runner is lappin 1m09seconds. At that a guy doin just under 1m16s gets lapped on lap ten.

So just how close do you expect the racing of a 20 bike field to get j-lo69?

600s do 1m07sec laps. an no im not marcus this is just something that you an your bro have thought up. quite funny how you guys are gulabil, you make my day. :2thumbsup

[Kickaha]

600s do 1m07sec laps.

Since when?

Lap record is listed as 1.08.328 set by Chris Seaton 26/02/07 and nobody went faster than that at the 2008 Nationals

And the majority of the field run in the 1.09 bracket

[Bren_chch]

Since when?

Lap record is listed as 1.08.328 set by Chris Seaton 26/02/07 and nobody went faster than that at the 2008 Nationals

And the majority of the field run in the 1.09 bracket


that will be smashed this year, just like most other 600cc lap records. :Punk: