Anyone shed some light for me?

[gtr boy]

anyone been here before?
cut a long story short,woman pulls out on me,im in hospital for 8days getting skin graft and sporting a fractured fibula .
cops come around and get my statement after im outa the hospital and say there going to charge woman with careless driving causing injury
get a letter in the mail stating that due to all circumstances to incident there not going to charge woman with anything and there not going to issue me with an infringment notice for going 60km/h.
so basically the woman gets off and im here still on crutches with a bike that needs fixing

what i want to know is the next step...small claims for getting my bike fixed?

cheers

[klingon]

Do you have insurance?
Does she have insurance?

The police don't have to charge anyone in order for you to get your bike fixed. It's purely an insurance issue.

[firefighter]

Pursue it further, she should be charged for pulling out on you.....and to even mention not ticketing you for going 60km/h is bloody rough. As for the small claims court surely the police must have decided whether she was at fault or not? (I'm presuming she was) Therefore she is liable and small claims court should'nt even be an issue- i'm sure your insured you should let them deal with it all...

[gtr boy]

unfortunetly we both dont have insurance.

[firefighter]

unfortunetly we both dont have insurance.

hunt her down and break her legs......that's probably all your gonna get out of her......small claims court will probably have to be the go then

[pritch]

You would appear to have a problem. I'd have thought she needed to be found guilty of an infringement before a claim against her could succeed.

Sorry about the injuries and the bike. Insurance is expensive, not having it can be even more expensive.

[jafar]

unfortunetly we both dont have insurance.

It's down to you & her now. As she wasn't prosecuted by the Po lice your chances of getting anything from her in the small claims tribunal are less than they would have been otherwise. Try your luck though, but you have to prove she was @ fault as well.

[Big Dave]

Man - busted up and worked over.
All I can offer is if you feel wronged talk to a Solicitor.

[sunhuntin]

been there, done that, got the scar tissue. lucky for me, there was no extended hospital stay, but i did get 2 weeks on crutches for a "broken leg" [read dusty xray lens] which has stuffed both knees. the bike was a write off as well.

neither of us got charged, and the cops advised us not to pursue furthur [this after her saying shed pay all damages] wishing now id smacked her in the head with my helmet like i wanted to at the time.

[mashman]

Get an independent accident investigator to write up what they would consider caused the crash. Then if necessary try to press charges for assault with a deadly weapon. To sweeten the deal tell the police that you had a one night stand with her a couple of weeks prior to the injury... I detest those that don't do the honourable when they are clearly at fault... why shouldn't you fight fire with fire... LIE YOUR ASS OFF!!!

[klingon]

...

neither of us got charged, and the cops advised us not to pursue furthur [this after her saying shed pay all damages] ...

The cops can advise you that they are not going to persue criminal charges, but they can't advise you whether to take civil action. You would need to get advice from a solicitor for that. The cops are not there to give you legal advice.

[Mystic13]

I'd be looking for a further discussion with the police re not charging her. I guess I'm curious if she pulled out in front of a car or if there was serious injury or death would they charge her.

Just curious...

[Owl]

I’d imagine the police haven’t charged her because they consider your speed was a contributing factor!
I think you may be pushing shit up hill dude, trying to get money out of her.

[Katman]

Do the police have proof that you were doing 60kph?

[Waxxa]

Do you have names of witnesses? if you do, then Small Claims court. It's easy enough. You don't need lawyer/solicitor but you do need the facts and your events straight and presentable to the court.

Get well GTR hopefully see you on the road soon.

[Mully]

Do the police have proof that you were doing 60kph?

His location is "West with 6r". Assuming that's his licence, and he was riding the t595. he could have been pinged for that.

As an aside, if you are on an L or R, and this happens, would her insurance (if she had any) consider you at fault because you shouldn't have been there? I understand it's like that if you don't have a WOF (correct me if I'm wrong)?

Find out from the Police why they are not charging her. Seems a clear cut case to me. And either go to Disputes Tribunal or pay a lawyer to go to big boys court.

[gtr boy]

thanks for your input so far.there was a witness to the whole thing.he told cops i was doing @60k/h.
might ring cops and try and get his name etc

[Blackflagged]

Someone not looking,were there ,going was the cause of the accident.60k is fine if people, look were there going!
It`s a conspiracy,to sque the accident figuers.So they can put up acc tax,on bikers.:msn-wink:

[FJRider]

Take private court action against her... sue her. Her not being charged with any infringement makes no difference to private court cases...
You could also talk to the senior police officer for your district, and see if the case was dealt with correctly.
If you were travelling at 60 km/hr in a 50 km/hr zone, it may be considered that you contributed to the accident, and thus partly to blame. Often they consider damage to your bike , punishment enough...
But I would reccomend getting at least third party insurance. If you hit something expensive....

[gtr boy]

Take private court action against her... sue her. Her not being charged with any infringement makes no difference to private court cases...
You could also talk to the senior police officer for your district, and see if the case was dealt with correctly.
If you were travelling at 60 km/hr in a 50 km/hr zone, it may be considered that you contributed to the accident, and thus partly to blame. Often they consider damage to your bike , punishment enough...
But I would reccomend getting at least third party insurance. If you hit something expensive....

yeah i agree with getting full insurance.had my full test booked for early january,was then going to get full insurance.just bad timing really for this to happen.
i fell a very competent rider as ridin on and off here and there.just want to get full for the record as fines are very expensive these days

[The Stranger]

You would appear to have a problem. I'd have thought she needed to be found guilty of an infringement before a claim against her could succeed.


No. Small claims can make a determination without either party being found guilty.

If you claim, she may counter claim and should you loose you may wind up with her costs. They have a lesser burden of proof at small claims - along the line of on the balance of probability as opposed beyond reasonable doubt. So ensure your ducks are in a row before you go that route. Make it real real easy for the adjudicator to understand your case (aerial photos, diagrams, photos of the damage, copy of the road code cause they are often pretty sketchy on this), this seems to be more important than who is right or wrong in my experience.

[Big Dave]

>>Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. - Robert J Hanlon <<

OT - one day I'll explain the BD stupidity index - you'll enjoy it.

[Katman]

I would suggest that if she is aware of the fact that you're on a restricted license and brings that up at a small claims hearing, and can provide a reliable witness's statement that you were doing 60kph, you're pretty much fucked.

[barty5]

And how did said person know you where doin 60ks personal radar gun??? guy might not like bikers sounds like he pulled that one outa his arse surly they need more proof than that.

[BIGBOSSMAN]

Oh shit Craig that is arse mate. The 'law' works in mysterious ways here in the Banana republic, same thing happened to me years ago when I t'boned a Vauxhall Viva with my RG500 (sniff). Damn mole pulled an unsignalled u-turn 10m in front of me and I couldn't haul the bike up in time.
2 months in hospital with a broken femur and other nasties, only she blamed me for the accident. A cop (Sgt Erihe MOT asswipe) turned up while I was in ECU (had to take off my oxygen mask to answer his asinine questions) and charged me with failing to stop.
Went to court, was thrown out immediately.
Hope you're ok bud, bikes can be fixed/replaced but bodies are a different matter entirely...

[Usarka]

thanks for your input so far.there was a witness to the whole thing.he told cops i was doing @60k/h.
might ring cops and try and get his name etc

Did you see this witness? ie was he really there?

[gtr boy]

Did you see this witness? ie was he really there?

yeah he was a young guy stopped and left his name with the other helpers

[Rcktfsh]

I would suggest making an application under the Official information Act 1982 for the police file, you may well find that upon receiving the request they have coincidentally relooked over the file and decided to take further action against the driver. This is a simple process simply write to the Officer you have been dealing with stating that under the Official Information Act 1982 you would like to request a copy of the Police file for the incident including any handwritten notes/notebook entries made by the attending Officer. this puts them on alert and is likely to cause a review of the file.
regarding your bike small claims is your best bet, you can file a claim for up to $7,500.00 or $12,000.00 by mutual consent. You represent yourself and no lawyers are allowed. A member of the publics estimation of your speed is irrelevant as it is unverifiable, obviously you where travelling at 50 km/hr as that is the speed limit! A great benefit of the disputes Tribunal set up is that they look at the substantive merits of the case, not simply the letter of the law, which should work in your favour, keep it simple and avoid trying a Danny Crane impersonation and you should be right. The fact that a police proscecution has not been taken will not work against you. Have quotes for the bike damage from two different shops as they do not like single quotes. A final tip i would suggest is should, oops I mean when you win, the other party will have approximately 1 month to pay, if they don't then you can approach the court Baillifs to secure payment, this is much more likely the more information you provide them so scope out the place and note any rego numbers of cars parked there and rego check to see if there in her name, that way you can say to Bailliff she owns such and such model rego xxxx which they will threaten to seize should she not cough up when they arrive.
Best of luck.

[gtr boy]

I would suggest making an application under the Official information Act 1982 for the police file, you may well find that upon receiving the request they have coincidentally relooked over the file and decided to take further action against the driver. This is a simple process simply write to the Officer you have been dealing with stating that under the Official Information Act 1982 you would like to request a copy of the Police file for the incident including any handwritten notes/notebook entries made by the attending Officer. this puts them on alert and is likely to cause a review of the file.
regarding your bike small claims is your best bet, you can file a claim for up to $7,500.00 or $12,000.00 by mutual consent. You represent yourself and no lawyers are allowed. A member of the publics estimation of your speed is irrelevant as it is unverifiable, obviously you where travelling at 50 km/hr as that is the speed limit! A great benefit of the disputes Tribunal set up is that they look at the substantive merits of the case, not simply the letter of the law, which should work in your favour, keep it simple and avoid trying a Danny Crane impersonation and you should be right. The fact that a police proscecution has not been taken will not work against you. Have quotes for the bike damage from two different shops as they do not like single quotes. A final tip i would suggest is should, oops I mean when you win, the other party will have approximately 1 month to pay, if they don't then you can approach the court Baillifs to secure payment, this is much more likely the more information you provide them so scope out the place and note any rego numbers of cars parked there and rego check to see if there in her name, that way you can say to Bailliff she owns such and such model rego xxxx which they will threaten to seize should she not cough up when they arrive.
Best of luck.
thanks for that.cop involved gave me the womans name address,phone number,etc so i can get her rego(s) no problem.
will have a think about all your comments and go from there
cheers

[rastuscat]

I’d imagine the police haven’t charged her because they consider your speed was a contributing factor!


It's called contributory negligence. The Police have to prove a charge beyond reasonable doubt, but the Disputes Tribunal only needs to decide "on the balance of probabilities". They can decide it's 80% her fault, and 20% your fault, and order costs as appropriate.

Trouble is, if it is truly as you told it, how can the Police not be charging her? I'm sorry, I have the feeling that there must be another side to the story.

Not bagging you, but if it is purely as you told it, there must be something wrong with the Police decision.
:woohoo:

[The Stranger]

thanks for your input so far.there was a witness to the whole thing.he told cops i was doing @60k/h.
might ring cops and try and get his name etc

Unless the witness was following close behind you shouldn't have a problem there. Courts don't even rely on cops evidence re speed unless they have checked it somehow, they aren't going to rely on a lay persons eyeball speed measuring device, you just deny it flat.
As to license, did that contribute to the accident?
Don't go down without a fight.

[Katman]

I'm sorry, I have the feeling that there must be another side to the story.



Surely not.

He's a motorcyclist.

[Owl]

It's called contributory negligence. The Police have to prove a charge beyond reasonable doubt, but the Disputes Tribunal only needs to decide "on the balance of probabilities". They can decide it's 80% her fault, and 20% your fault, and order costs as appropriate.

Trouble is, if it is truly as you told it, how can the Police not be charging her? I'm sorry, I have the feeling that there must be another side to the story.

Not bagging you, but if it is purely as you told it, there must be something wrong with the Police decision.
:woohoo:

Well, now we know he has the wrong class licence!

[Rcktfsh]

It's called contributory negligence. The Police have to prove a charge beyond reasonable doubt, but the Disputes Tribunal only needs to decide "on the balance of probabilities". They can decide it's 80% her fault, and 20% your fault, and order costs as appropriate.

Trouble is, if it is truly as you told it, how can the Police not be charging her? I'm sorry, I have the feeling that there must be another side to the story.

Not bagging you, but if it is purely as you told it, there must be something wrong with the Police decision.
:woohoo:

Sadly this is not an uncommom situation, there is alot of work involved from the cops to prepare a proscecution and many have the view it's only a motorcyclist so there fault for being so irresponsible in the 1st place. It's a scenario I have heard before and the information request will put them on notice that your not easily fobbed off with bs excuses.

[rastuscat]

Well, now we know he has the wrong class licence!

The wrong class of licence makes nil difference, it didn't contribute to the crash. Maybe he will get a wrong class ticket, but she pulled out in front of a motorcycle, the class of licence did not contribute at all.

[rastuscat]

Sadly this is not an uncommom situation, there is alot of work involved from the cops to prepare a proscecution and many have the view it's only a motorcyclist so there fault for being so irresponsible in the 1st place. It's a scenario I have heard before and the information request will put them on notice that your not easily fobbed off with bs excuses.

Sad to hear your views. If it's common, and we don't challenge it, how will it ever change? The IPCA is the place for the complaint.

http://www.ipca.govt.nz/

[BIGBOSSMAN]

In my experience the woman who drove the car involved in my accident made her statement to the police while I was on my agonising way to hospital, this essentially became 'gospel' and I therefore had to prove my innocence.
In fact I wasn't asked to make a statement at all, my first contact with said 'upholders of the public trust' was when the cop charged me with failing to stop, while I was sedated in ECU with an oxygen mask strapped to my head.
Bit fishy don't ya think?

[Ixion]

Sadly this is not an uncommom situation, there is alot of work involved from the cops to prepare a proscecution and many have the view it's only a motorcyclist so there fault for being so irresponsible in the 1st place. It's a scenario I have heard before and the information request will put them on notice that your not easily fobbed off with bs excuses.

More to the point, the police can only work with what is available to them. SO often, this boils down to "he said, she said". Your version of what happened may well be the correct one. But the woman will have a different story. "I was not careless. I was very careful, the biker was speeding". The only witness apparently can only contribute that you were speeding. The cops review that, and have to decide whether a judge would, on that basis, conclude that the charge of carelessness was proven beyond reasonable doubt . The cops are not gods, they can only work with what they have. And yes, if it comes down to "he said, she said", a judge is more likely to conclude that the respectable woman is to be believed rather than a motorcyclist (and in that context, the invalid licence does make a difference). That's just a fact of life as a biker.

[Owl]

The wrong class of licence makes nil difference, it didn't contribute to the crash. Maybe he will get a wrong class ticket, but she pulled out in front of a motorcycle, the class of licence did not contribute at all.

How could it not contribute when he shouldn't have been riding that bike on the road in the first place?
I do get where you’re coming from, but I disagree!
I think the police may be doing gtr boy a favour by not booking anyone. Open up that can of worms and he may face fines and a longer wait for his class 6.

[Big Dave]

Oh great, now it's Ix's facts of life. If there is a buzzing or flapping sound - leave.

[rastuscat]

More to the point, the police can only work with what is available to them. SO often, this boils down to "he said, she said". Your version of what happened may well be the correct one. But the woman will have a different story. "I was not careless. I was very careful, the biker was speeding". The only witness apparently can only contribute that you were speeding. The cops review that, and have to decide whether a judge would, on that basis, conclude that the charge of carelessness was proven beyond reasonable doubt . The cops are not gods, they can only work with what they have. And yes, if it comes down to "he said, she said", a judge is more likely to conclude that the respectable woman is to be believed rather than a motorcyclist (and in that context, the invalid licence does make a difference). That's just a fact of life as a biker.

Wow, I get to fill out some of what the Ixxer said.

The road factors will tell the story. Was she in a Give Way or a Stop Sign? Was she turning, and he going straight? Uncontrolled intersection? Anyone indicating? These things are very important, as they provide the basis for a legal decision. At most of the hundreds of crashes I have attended (okay, yes, in a professional role) the physical evidence tells the story far better than either party. What happens is each party tells a story, and the truth is normally somewhere in between. The physical evidence and the roading environment often speak more truth than either driver.

The fact that he was on the wrong licence, as stated, makes nil difference. He could be disqualified, she still has to give way to him (if the original story is true...............do I sound sceptical?). By the logic as stated, is it really okay to not give way to someone you think doesn't have a licence? Yeah right. That logic suggests that if you cause a crash it's okay, as long as the other party doesn't have the right class of licence.

From her perspective, she failed to give way (if his original story is true). It is likely she didn't see him, therein lies the Carelessness. If she did see him and pulled out anyway, well. that's even more Careless. Whether he was doing 50 or 60, on whatever licence he had, she has to see the oncoming vehicle.

Not seeing an oncoming vehicle is Careless all day, every day.

[rastuscat]

Oh my God, remember all those stories about the innocent party not getting insurance because their Warrant of Fitness expired the previous day, and therefore shouldn't be on the road? Tripe. Any court would award costs.

[Owl]

Oh my God, remember all those stories about the innocent party not getting insurance because their Warrant of Fitness expired the previous day, and therefore shouldn't be on the road? Tripe. Any court would award costs.

Who mentioned WOF? Try to stay on track ratuscat!

[breakaway]

This thread is fucking raging me up hard. I hate when people get hit by incompetent drivers. What I hate even more is when they take it lying down and not fight back.

I would get on this woman's ass ASAP. If you've been honest with us, looks like the police have NO EVIDENCE that you were going 60. This 'witness' wouldn't happen to have a speed gun now would he? He could be full of shit.

[blossomsowner]

His location is "West with 6r". Assuming that's his licence, and he was riding the t595. he could have been pinged for that.

As an aside, if you are on an L or R, and this happens, would her insurance (if she had any) consider you at fault because you shouldn't have been there? I understand it's like that if you don't have a WOF (correct me if I'm wrong)?

Find out from the Police why they are not charging her. Seems a clear cut case to me. And either go to Disputes Tribunal or pay a lawyer to go to big boys court.

we had a previous vehicle crashed and written off by our insurance company. and it had no wof at the time.......they did not even quibble

[dipshit]

And how did said person know you where doin 60ks personal radar gun???


That's right, gtr boy may have actually been doing 80ks.

If that was the case then he would have been happy to admit to the witnesse's guess.

yeah okkkkkkk then i was doing 60 :confused:

[prettybillie]

Get onto your insurance company if you have one and let them do the running around. If you don't have insurance you'll need to go through legal stuff

[homer]

unfortunetly we both dont have insurance.

id be just thinking your self very lucky , everyone should have insurance.

[rastuscat]

Yeah, have insurance, then you wouldn't have to trawl cyber space for advice on what to do...............

[sunhuntin]

The cops can advise you that they are not going to persue criminal charges, but they can't advise you whether to take civil action. You would need to get advice from a solicitor for that. The cops are not there to give you legal advice.

the main reason they said not to bother is

1: it would have been a cunt of a job just making them pay us and
2: it would have been at like $2/week if that.

yanno the type... 2 million kids being paid for by the taxpayer.

still... its taught me a lesson... get your revenge while you can. wish shed been a bit faster so id hit her door instead of her front bumper.

[MarkH]

Unless the witness was following close behind you shouldn't have a problem there. Courts don't even rely on cops evidence re speed unless they have checked it somehow, they aren't going to rely on a lay persons eyeball speed measuring device, you just deny it flat.
As to license, did that contribute to the accident?
Don't go down without a fight.

Even if the witless WAS following close behind - has the witless had their speedo calibrated? If not, do the police REALLY have enough evidence for a charge of speeding to stick? Deny it and defend it!


It's called contributory negligence. The Police have to prove a charge beyond reasonable doubt, but the Disputes Tribunal only needs to decide "on the balance of probabilities". They can decide it's 80% her fault, and 20% your fault, and order costs as appropriate.

Gotta be careful with the gotcha here - if $1K damage to a bike and $9K damage to a car in an accident and the bike was speeding, car failed to give way - decision that 80% fault is with the car driver and 20% fault with the bike rider - then what? Well in that case the total damages are $10K, so the bike rider owes $2K (20%) therefore the rider pays his own repair costs and owes $1K to the car driver.
Something for all you to be aware of!

[The Pastor]

sorry to hear that mate, take it to court tho, make the bitch pay!

[Patrick]

anyone been here before?
cut a long story short,woman pulls out on me,im in hospital for 8days getting skin graft and sporting a fractured fibula .
cops come around and get my statement after im outa the hospital and say there going to charge woman with careless driving causing injury
get a letter in the mail stating that due to all circumstances to incident there not going to charge woman with anything and there not going to issue me with an infringment notice for going 60km/h.
so basically the woman gets off and im here still on crutches with a bike that needs fixing

what i want to know is the next step...small claims for getting my bike fixed?

cheers

PM sent on this to the OP.... then I read the rest of the thread.... Get the file reviewed by an experienced officer (sergeant or higher...)


Do the police have proof that you were doing 60kph?

Eggsakkery..... Mr witness does not have a certified speedo, does he?


It's called contributory negligence. The Police have to prove a charge beyond reasonable doubt, but the Disputes Tribunal only needs to decide "on the balance of probabilities". They can decide it's 80% her fault, and 20% your fault, and order costs as appropriate.

Trouble is, if it is truly as you told it, how can the Police not be charging her? I'm sorry, I have the feeling that there must be another side to the story.

Not bagging you, but if it is purely as you told it, there must be something wrong with the Police decision.
:woohoo:

This is true. NO where in any rules, regulations, codes or whatever, does it say, "he was going too fast so its Ok for me to pull out in front of him..."


The wrong class of licence makes nil difference, it didn't contribute to the crash. Maybe he will get a wrong class ticket, but she pulled out in front of a motorcycle, the class of licence did not contribute at all.

True. The "cause" is plain and simple. She pulled out, in front of you, failed to give way. But since an injury occurred, it is raised to careless causing injury.


Sad to hear your views. If it's common, and we don't challenge it, how will it ever change? The IPCA is the place for the complaint.

http://www.ipca.govt.nz/

Meh... too much paperwork for all involved. A simple file review should see her charged.


............ Not seeing an oncoming vehicle is Careless all day, every day.

Adding "injury" to the charge, of course, makes it careless causing injury. Otherwise, "failing to give way (or stop) = $150 fine, thanks" is usually sufficient......

[ColonelKFC]

Same thing happened to me last year on my Gpx. only difference I was going around 30 Kmh in a 25kmh zone. Luckly I wasnt injured. Also lucky it happened in an Army camp. I was on restricted and that doesnt matter. The key thing in your case is instead of careless driving they should have done her for failing to stop or failing to give way.Statements like "I didnt see you" or "are you allright Im so sorry" may suggest she is in the wrong. I managed to get 500 bucks in damages out of the chick who tried to kill me, without going to court, the best thing to do, I found,is stick to your guns and feel no pity for her. I hope if nothing else you left a nice big bike print in her car and you get the satisfaction of her having to pay for that at least!

[SARGE]

thanks for your input so far.there was a witness to the whole thing.he told cops i was doing @60k/h.
might ring cops and try and get his name etc

ask who calibrated the witnesses eyes..