Don't I feel like a piece of shit.

[FROSTY]

At 6.30 this friday evening a 14 year old boy rode his motorcycle into the back of a stationary car in Devonport.
The young man concerned susstained serious injuries and died this monday evening as a result.
said young man was wearing an old ill fitting helmet ,no gloves,long shorts,sneakers and a jean jacket.
He bought the bike to be cool like his mate.
They called by the yard and I made a half hearted attempt to tell him about protective gear and propper places to ride
Fuck I wish I'd ripped stripps off his back instead of pussy footing around. :brick: :brick: :brick: :brick:

[Jantar]

What were the parents doing allowing a 14 yr old to be riding without gear? What were they doing allowing him to ride anything in the first place?

:confused: :confused:

[Biff]

Don't blame youself mate. There's only so much we bystanders can do in times like this.

Only yesterday I parked opposite a guy in a gas station who was riding an FZR in a T-shirt, jeans, trainers and what looked like a 2nd world war battered helmet, and to top it all off it was freaking raining!!!

Here's hoping his friends and family find the strength to help them through this tragic time.

Chin up - onwards and upwards etc

[Will]

I think I woulda done the same. You can't rip into them because then they really turn off.
So how can you get through to people to wear the correct gear - it will save their life or atleast their skin?
Any one got any ideas out there?

[ching_ching]

Tis a tragedy bro. I know saying "not your fault" won't make you feel much better right now. Seemed like a very impressionable lad. Ratshit. :spudwhat:

[Biff]

Any one got any ideas out there?

Carry around some gory photos of bikie accident victims and thrust them in the face of these fools when you happen across them (sorry - don't mean to speak ill of the dead).

Other than that :spudwhat:. Apart from making it a legal requirement to wear full protective clothing, but then we head towards becoming a 'Nanny State', and we'd never see a Harley on the road again (dangerous generalisation alert).

[ching_ching]

I think I woulda done the same. You can't rip into them because then they really turn off.
So how can you get through to people to wear the correct gear - it will save their life or atleast their skin?
Any one got any ideas out there?

I agree, if u had ripped into him @ the time tis probable he would've thought "fuck you!!" and got into it twice as fast just to fuck u off as well. That's what I would've done.
How to convince people 2 wear protective gear? How bout printing off one of those post motorcycle accident pics that u find on da Net and carry it around in your wallet. Then when u see a rider with no gear, accost them and flick the picture out like your flashing a police badge. :spudwhat:

[limmy]

unfortunate as it may be...its not something you could have stopped. you told him what he needed to know. if he was interested he would have listened.

[Mr Skid]

They called by the yard and I made a half hearted attempt to tell him about protective gear and propper places to ride
You save people from alot, but you can't save them from themselves.

While not wanting to presuppose the detail of the accident, I would imagine that the best gear out there would not have prevented this.

[Wonko]

Tony, you can only do so much. You tried, you did more than what was expected. Not everyone will do what is right, nomatter the number of times they are told.
Stop beating yourself up over it.

[Zapf]

You save people from alot, but you can't save them from themselves.

While not wanting to presuppose the detail of the accident, I would imagine that the best gear out there would not have prevented this.

They could have been riding a BMW C1, would hav saved his ass! :P

[James Deuce]

Try to remember what it felt like to be under 25, and worst of all a teenager. 10ft tall and bulletproof. All those old people have no idea either. Not your fault in any way.

[Firefight]

Tony, don't be se so hard on yourself, you tried, What about the parents/freinds, Like the others said, chances are if you did get heavy, he would have just laughed and told you to Fuck off.
Knowing you as I do, I think you would have done as much as was possible.

F/F

[What?]

Tony, you did all you could, and that is more than most would have done.
And ripping strips off him would have made it worse - most likely the very reason I smoked cigarettes for 15 years; at 13 I knew it all...

[750Y]

that's another tragic loss mate, you can't help him now, but you may be able to help someone else... good on you for speaking up...
you can't save the world you know, save your own boy...

[avgas]

:angry2: fucken parents who let theyre kids go like that.
Dont look to deep into it frosty, at the end of the day - YOU DID TRY, but at the end of the day i think mabey you were talking to the wrong people.
The comment about being 10ft tall and bulletproof at that age is very true - but the people who are suppose to get these people inline are the parents, not you.
You did nothing wrong, if u had ripped strips off him he prob would have rebelled harder against what u said, so u did do everything right.
I was that old when i started to go on bikes, everyone would tell me "Wear this, it will save your life...." and i would usually respond like "oh yeh thats bullshit....".
But it was my father who would no let me go near a bike without the right gear, that enforced the rules - these parents did not meet this requirement.
Please do not take it too hard - you gave him all he needed to survive riding, HE did not take it, there was nothing more u could have done, without being harassed by his parents.
Ive said it before and ill say it again
"You can lead a horse to water, but at the end of the day its still a dumb horse"

[Sniper]

Dont let it get to you XJ, everybody wishes at one point that something could have been changed.

It was a mistake, but its in the past now. Take care matey, dont let this be a personal thing ok!

Best wishes mate- Sniper

[Motu]

What was a 14yr old doing riding a motorcycle on the road? The clothing is not the issue here,who let him do it in the first place is where the blame lies.I hope it wasn't you who sold him the bike mate - do you know who did? go back to the cause,not the effect...

[crashe]

Frosty,

Yep you did give the teenager advice, now what he did with that advise is that he decided to do his own thing, and ride without the proper gear.

But also take into account that his parents allowed him to buy the bike and let him ride it on the road. He was 14 years old and didnt hold a license, cos the lad wasnt old enough to hold one. His parents have to take responsibility for this not you. As this young lad should not have even been on the road. Sure he could have ridden it out in a paddock etc.

It is very sad that this lad died, but you are not to blame in any way what so ever. Teenagers are teeenagers and sometimes you cant tell them a thing. They just do their own thing no matter what anyone says to them. Frosty don't take this on board.... you gave the lad advise. He choose to ignore that advise.

Take care mate.

[White trash]

We make our own desiscions, Tony.

I'm awaiting some serious neg rep for my next statement but I ride 'round town in the summer wearing T-shirt and jeans. Allways a good lid and gloves though.

I've even been spotted at Lyall Bay practicing wearing the same thing.

I'm thinking the poor soul died of head injuries due to the lack of a decent helmet? Have to be going fucken fast to kill yourself against the back of a car and die from internal injuries.

[Pwalo]

Everyone else is right XJ. There's nothing you could have done, and unfortunately we can't go back to change things.

Still a pisser though.

[sparrow_34]

Can understand the way you are feeling, but us humans are quite fragile and maybe no amount of gear could have saved him. It doesn't take much to break your neck etc.
It's upsetting to see someone you know die young. rip.

[bear]

You need a licence to legally take ownership of a vehicle, so someone older (possibly parents) would have helped him out here. That is, if it was done by the book. And then they didn't even get him sorted with gear. POOR!

I've seen quite a lot of college boys riding scooters around the Wellington CBD lately, only wearing school uniform and helmets. Couple were pulling wheelies while waiting for the green light yesterday. They did this by coming into the pedestrian crossing part of the intersection. Some guidance needed on the gear to wear, coming off a scooter at 50km/h in shorts and a shirt can't be healthy.

[Motu]

You need a licence to legally take ownership of a vehicle, so someone older (possibly parents) would have helped him out here. That is, if it was done by the book. And then they didn't even get him sorted with gear. POOR!

I've seen quite a lot of college boys riding scooters around the Wellington CBD lately, only wearing school uniform and helmets. Couple were pulling wheelies while waiting for the green light yesterday. They did this by coming into the pedestrian crossing part of the intersection. Some guidance needed on the gear to wear, coming off a scooter at 50km/h in shorts and a shirt can't be healthy.

Right on the first part....but teaching them NOT to come off a scooter in the first place is more important than a bandaid.

[crashe]

You need a licence to legally take ownership of a vehicle,

Nope not quite true.... example - look at those that are coming into NZ and going and buying a vehicle with CASH and then driving around. They arent required to show their license. As long as they had cash they drive the car away... hence some have had accidents... the asian lad who killed the young girl at the petrol station down the line had no license, yet he owned the car. The parents paid $40,000 compo.

[MSTRS]

At 6.30 this friday evening a 14 year old boy rode his motorcycle into the back of a stationary car in Devonport.
The young man concerned susstained serious injuries and died this monday evening as a result.
said young man was wearing an old ill fitting helmet ,no gloves,long shorts,sneakers and a jean jacket.
He bought the bike to be cool like his mate.
They called by the yard and I made a half hearted attempt to tell him about protective gear and propper places to ride
Fuck I wish I'd ripped stripps off his back instead of pussy footing around. :brick: :brick: :brick: :brick:
It only seems more tragic cos you knew him. You did what you could, the rest was up to the boy. At least he didn't take out anyone else.

[jrandom]

I'm awaiting some serious neg rep for my next statement but I ride 'round town in the summer wearing T-shirt and jeans. Allways a good lid and gloves though.

Nah, no neg rep. I've started doing the same thing. Not on my commute, or any open road riding, mind you, but the little bitty riding around at lunchtime and on the weekend things.

Ditto with the helmet and gloves, of course. My head and hands are non-negotiable.

That kid must have died from head or neck injuries; he was in a 50 zone. Don't beat yourself up, Frosty, it was entirely the parents' fault. They should have protected him from his own teenage stupidity. You just can't expect a 14 year old to have a properly mature sense of risk, and that's all there is to it.

[MacD]

Can understand the way you are feeling, but us humans are quite fragile and maybe no amount of gear could have saved him. It doesn't take much to break your neck etc.
It's upsetting to see someone you know die young. rip.

Yes, maybe this is a sobering example of the difference between riding on the road and riding on the track? On the road there are lots of large, solid, immovable objects that no amount of protective gear can save you from. Perhaps a better quality helmet might have helped, but there is no way of knowing that for sure. At least you tried to give him advice.

As Motu said, the important bit is learning to ride safely and well in the first place. This seems to have been what was missing in this case.

[ManDownUnder]

Frosty...

I concur with the "you did your best, you did what was appropriate under the circumstances" comments made thus far.

It's easy to beat yourself up over it, natural too, but in the absence of a crystal ball there was no way you could have known.

Look after yourself, get your head right and learn anything you can from what happened. With time, friends the chance to talk over the occasional beer you'll develop a true perspective.

MDU

[PuppetMaster]

I dont think anything you could have said would make any difference to the young guy. Like Wt said he must have been going reasonably fast to get hurt so bad. If you'd told him to slow down it probably would have the opposite effect.


We make our own desiscions, Tony.
I'm awaiting some serious neg rep for my next statement but I ride 'round town in the summer wearing T-shirt and jeans. Allways a good lid and gloves though.

I got a ticket for not wearing a helmet years ago. Just popped around the corner to the dairy and a copper came past. gave me a ticket too the bastard.

[Motu]

I got a ticket for not wearing a helmet years ago. Just popped around the corner to the dairy and a copper came past. gave me a ticket too the bastard.

Did the same myself years ago - I was working on a problem DT175,I'd do something,put my gear on,blast up the road,come back to the workshop,fiddle some more,gear up go for another blat,come back and try something else.I was getting very frustrated,and at 4.30pm after one last final attempt to fix it I went for a blat 100m up the road without a helmet,I was in an industrial area with no one around - but wouldn't you know it,the bloody local traffic cop (in those days) was on the side of the road talking to a mate.I saw him pull out as I went past,so took him on a tour of the area before going back to work,he was a bit annoyed...maybe if I'd stopped before going past him I might of got off,but I was grumpy.Lesson learnt eh?

[ajturbo]

hey frosty...!!

not you fault!!!!


but thank you for this report... i WILL be showing it to luke...!!

if the only good thing to come out of this, is for luke to read this posting and think about what he is wearing when he is out there.

i thank you matey.

[Motoracer]

Tony, don't be se so hard on yourself, you tried, What about the parents/freinds, Like the others said, chances are if you did get heavy, he would have just laughed and told you to Fuck off.
Knowing you as I do, I think you would have done as much as was possible.

F/F

I second that. Hope you'll feel better soon Ton.

[Posh Tourer :P]

What was a 14yr old doing riding a motorcycle on the road? The clothing is not the issue here,who let him do it in the first place is where the blame lies.I hope it wasn't you who sold him the bike mate - do you know who did? go back to the cause,not the effect...

When I heard on the radio they said 15 :spudwhat: dunno if Tony is right, or they are.....

[crazylittleshit]

people make there own fate man Don't stress.

[Paul in NZ]

Christ...

14 / 15 year olds... You say one thing, they hear blah blah blah....

At that age I didn't need to wear a helmet so I would just tootle off to school without one on the AJS.... Mum got a bit annoyed when i rode the dirt bike to school (open pipes, open promary, no lights, no rego, no wof no nuttin it didn't need to actually run) but if I could I'd sneak off on it 'cos it was cool....

Shit happens... Every day. You do your best but being human, you can't be 100% all the time.... And even if you are... There is nothing to say it would have worked...

Paul N

[Motu]

Yeah,kids haven't changed in a million years - I'm like Paul (actualy,I AM Paul,but don't let's confuse things) at this kids age I was riding with less protective gear and with half his brain power...but I had God's personal protection.

But the bikes and cars have changed,this guy on his bike and the flying Subby in Hamilton,victims of inexperiannce with vehicles far beyond their capabilities to control.

Ban teenagers,fucking idiots... :brick:

[FROSTY]

anyhoo you lot I've had to many mates die on bikes to say nothing even if the person Im tellin it it dont wanna listen.
I sorta hoped maybee a little had soaked in. We were talking abot bike maintainence,cleaning and propper gear. He was gonna get propper gear --when he could afford it.

[Paul in NZ]

anyhoo you lot I've had to many mates die on bikes to say nothing even if the person Im tellin it it dont wanna listen.
I sorta hoped maybee a little had soaked in. We were talking abot bike maintainence,cleaning and propper gear. He was gonna get propper gear --when he could afford it.

Always the way when you are a teenager mate....

A proper leather jacket was $350 or something totally outrageous way back then so I made do with old duffle coats and a plastic ski jacket. Padding? Armour? Why? It's not like I was going to fall off was it?

As for the dirt bike.... 80mph on the beach in a tee shirt, jeans and tramping boots.... Soon learnt a helmet / goggles (old welding ones with a clear lens) was a good idea but a jacket? An old rugby shirt was fine...

I mean. I bought a perfectly fine 500cc trumpy for $200... A jacket cost more than that......

Amazing we survived really....

Paul N

[Aitch]

tried to tell a 14 year old boy anything??? Remember the feeling of invincibility?? Tearing a strip off him would most likely only have made him lose what little protection he had.

[spudchucka]

Carry around some gory photos of bikie accident victims and thrust them in the face of these fools when you happen across them (sorry - don't mean to speak ill of the dead).

Other than that :spudwhat:. Apart from making it a legal requirement to wear full protective clothing, but then we head towards becoming a 'Nanny State', and we'd never see a Harley on the road again (dangerous generalisation alert).
I did a bike training course at the age of 15 and part of that course was to look through a photo album of horror crashes and injuries to motorcyclists. One that has always stayed with me was the image of a biker that was wearing jandles, (thongs if you are an Aussie). He put his foot down to negotiate a corner on his dirt bike, the jandle lodged into the dirt and the thong ripped up between his big toe and the the toe next to it. It was split right open with the big toe and half his foot almost detatched from the main part of the foot. Strangely enough I've always worn boots when riding any motor cycle.

[spudchucka]

that's another tragic loss mate, you can't help him now, but you may be able to help someone else... good on you for speaking up...
you can't save the world you know, save your own boy...
The dead guy himself may actually posthumously influence a number of his friends who have now witnessed human frailty first hand.

[Skyryder]

If you are going to slam into the back of a vehicle fast enough to kill yourself there's not a lot that you can do. It's dangerouse enough out there fully kitted.

No ones fault but the rider. Bummer all the same for family friends etc.

Skyryder

[marty]

hey frosty - i fixed up an unlicenced/un wof'd katana for a young unlicenced guy (he broke down outside my house), he went and rode it into the front of a truck 2 days later. what can you do?

[marty]

finding a road like this is always good therapy....

[Slingshot]

We make our own desiscions, Tony.

I'm awaiting some serious neg rep for my next statement but I ride 'round town in the summer wearing T-shirt and jeans. Allways a good lid and gloves though.

I've even been spotted at Lyall Bay practicing wearing the same thing.

I'm thinking the poor soul died of head injuries due to the lack of a decent helmet? Have to be going fucken fast to kill yourself against the back of a car and die from internal injuries.


The key here is that you have the information to make an informed decision. I couldn't give a toss what people choose to ride in....as WT said...we all make our own decisions.

The important factor is...do we have the information to base the decision on. You don't know what you don't know.

When I first got into riding, the only piece of protective gear I had was a helmet, it didn't take long for people to tell me of the dangers of this, I was then in a better position to make a risk assessment and now accept the risks when I choose not to wear a piece of gear!