Accident causes

[R1madness]

I have been observing road crashes for a number of years now and have come to the conclusion that the figures miss one important point. Most accidents are caused by poor lane dicipline not speed. It wouldn't matter how fast you traveled if you stayed in your own lane (assuming you passed the slower moving traffic safely). No head ons, no running wide onto the verge and losing control.

Simplistic i hear you cry....... well not really. It appears that in Europe they have finally twigged onto it and are now including in their up comming road safty plan as a serious ticketing offence. In fact it will carry harsher penaltys than speeding in some circumstances. Eg in Germany if you are cut off while speeding and it is seen by a cop he will ticket the vehicle that cut you off and warn you about the dangers of excessive speed.
Great system. I like it.

[sunhuntin]

id agree with that. i went down to palmie last week. heading south out of sanson, i was on the passing lane. i had a car who gated me the whole lane, despite my slowing to 80k to try and make him pass. instead, he overtakes on the passing lane for the noth bound traffic. wanker.

it always amazes me the number of cars and trucks who cant take a corner without straying across the line. this needs to be seriously looked at, and should be a compulsory part of the driving test.

[Edbear]

Perzackery! Coming home last night a dimbo in the Rav4 I was passing slowly drifted across into my lane completely oblivious to the fact until she started hitting the warning bumps! :weird: I can't imagine what the toll would be if those warning bumps weren't there! The number of times I see cars drifting all over their lane and into the next...!!!! :angry:

The bumps are a minor nuisance on the bike in the wet, but I'd hate to not have them on the roads!

[Quasievil]

Most accidents are caused by poor lane dicipline not speed

Nope, ALL accidents are caused by Stupidity, thats it people are stupid and as long as people who are stupid drive or ride there will be crashes, why complicate it.
People should not be allowed to drive/ride

[Devil]

despite my slowing to 80k to try and make him pass. instead, he overtakes on the passing lane for the noth bound traffic. wanker.

You're allowed to overtake on oncoming passing lanes unless it has a yellow line on your side. Just like the normal yellow line rules.

[FJRider]

Nope, ALL accidents are caused by Stupidity, thats it people are stupid and as long as people who are stupid drive or ride there will be crashes, why complicate it.
People should not be allowed to drive/ride

SUCH people should not be allowed to drive/ride... maybe a test for stupidity.... :beer:

[TerminalAddict]

....
it always amazes me the number of cars and trucks who cant take a corner without straying across the line. this needs to be seriously looked at, and should be a compulsory part of the driving test.

it is ... if you cross the line on a practical test, you get a fail mark against you (from experience :) .. I slightly cut a corner at an intersection )

[motorbyclist]

i've always said an IQ test would not only reduce accidents, but solve conjestion too - 75% of people would lose their licence :laugh:


the number of times i've come across the same bloody nissan 4x4 near my home where he has been driving with his right hand wheels over the centreline while maintaining over a metre of clearance to the left of the road is appalling.
i've seen many cars have to dive off the road to avoid him/her, once including myself - me driving a ute with trailer our wingmirros had all of 10cm between them as my wheels were verging the ditch and the trailer fell in and tried to drag me with it. would've turned around but there was no-where to safely turn with the trailer on

the fact is it IS a ticketable offence for "not keeping as left as is practical" yet i have never seen it enforced even when is causes a near miss right infront of a cop

[BMWST?]

we already have a rule.....keep left!

[cowpoos]

i've always said an IQ test would not only reduce accidents, but solve conjestion too - 75% of people would lose their licence :laugh:



smart people arn't usually natural better designed by nature to be better in control of fast vehicles... eg: Jrandom

[The Stranger]

smart people arn't usually natural better designed by nature to be better in control of fast vehicles... eg: Jrandom

Yes, but at least his posts are coherent even when he's pissed.

[Usarka]

smart people arn't usually natural better designed by nature to be better in control of fast vehicles... eg: Jrandom

Good point. Maybe a combined IQ and co-ordination test :sherlock:


Yes, but at least his posts are coherent even when he's pissed.

I'm sure there's some redundancy in there......

[dangerous]

I have been observing road crashes

Born again riders thinking they are still 17 and or on bikes with power that wasnt even a dream back then...

Young dick heads that think they know it all and cos they ride a busa they are bullet proof...

selfishness and lazyness, the No1 killer...

:jerry:

[jrandom]

smart people arn't usually natural better designed by nature to be better in control of fast vehicles... eg: Jrandom

:killingme

Well, this is why I stick to slow vehicles.

[Ocean1]

Yes, but at least his posts are coherent even when he's pissed.

Which tends to demonstrate how often coherence is over-rated.



:chase:

[Grahameeboy]

i've always said an IQ test would not only reduce accidents, but solve conjestion too - 75% of people would lose their licence :laugh:


the number of times i've come across the same bloody nissan 4x4 near my home where he has been driving with his right hand wheels over the centreline while maintaining over a metre of clearance to the left of the road is appalling.
i've seen many cars have to dive off the road to avoid him/her, once including myself - me driving a ute with trailer our wingmirros had all of 10cm between them as my wheels were verging the ditch and the trailer fell in and tried to drag me with it. would've turned around but there was no-where to safely turn with the trailer on

the fact is it IS a ticketable offence for "not keeping as left as is practical" yet i have never seen it enforced even when is causes a near miss right infront of a cop

Driving on the road and being aware of others is simple...problem is if you have a bad attitude you will apply this to what ever you do...have to say that I have driven all over NZ and Auckland has to be the worst which suggests an arrogance which is a hidden NZ trait.

I mean how obvious is it that:

Texting at the wheel is wrong
Following less than 1 cars length from the car in front is wrong
Not stopping at the lights is wrong
Undertaking a motorbike...single lane carriage way...which is following traffic....not just once but having another crack.
Get in the right lane for your route instead of suddenly veering across the lanes
Cutting into commuter traffic at the very last moment when all you had to do was drive in the right lane way back in the first place.
Indicating means that you don't have the right to change position if it is not safe to do.
Overtaking a car on a road hump road...is it not obvious why the car in front is going slow.
Bikers...Buses only means just that...
Cycle lane is for cycles not for parking...dhuurrrr...I mean how dumb is that.
Oh and my favourite..disabled parking is for holders of a mobility permit not an Asb ATM card...a classic badattitude case...

All these things would be considered offences if the Police were around.

In the UK the general stats, like in NZ say that 30% of accidents are caused by speed but when they actually broke things down and eliminated the "He must have been goingfas t as I did not see him when I pulled out" it turns out that a mere 4% of accidents involved excessive speed.

Speed kills....I am still alive...yes if you drive in a stupid manner the speed will have a bigger impact, however, the proximate cause of the accident is not speed in isolation...

I have seem cops following too close or ignoring bad driving...but they don't ignore speeding...the problem is that speeding is the easiest thing to calculate but would it take too much to have red light cameras as all traffic light junctions...problem is that once again the gap between changes allows drivers to take the risk and avoiding an accident so stats don't show this up.

I mean on a recent ride we were rarely dipping below 100kph and not one accident...we were not being stupid but were speeding but because we were not being stupid we had no accidents..simple.

[swbarnett]

I can't imagine what the toll would be if those warning bumps weren't there! The number of times I see cars drifting all over their lane and into the next...!!!! :angry:

The bumps are a minor nuisance on the bike in the wet, but I'd hate to not have them on the roads!
Those bumps are a seriously bad idea! As is anything else that encourages the driver to stop thinking and rely on some artifitial device to think for them. I firmly believe that this kind of "safety" measure actually reduces the driving standard.

[motorbyclist]

i find it fun to drive along them - see how well i can keep the left cage tyres placed on the moving line

[Edbear]

Those bumps are a seriously bad idea! As is anything else that encourages the driver to stop thinking and rely on some artifitial device to think for them. I firmly believe that this kind of "safety" measure actually reduces the driving standard.

Sorry, I disagree. The reality is that the standard of driving in this country is abismal and it is a constant amazement to me that the road toll is not three times what it is. The fact is also true that had that idiot woman not hit those warning bumps she would have driven right into my lane and cut me off or hit me were I not already taking action to avoid her and reaching for the horn.

It is one thing to say that such and such should be the case, it is another to recognise that such and such is not the case and people have to have these "driving aids" to protect both themselves and the innocent who are affected by their stupidity.

In an ideal world, everyone would be as good a driver as I am, on the roads for 37 years, travelled at speeds up to 210km/h+, three minor speeding tickets, (11 and 12k's over), one minor accident at about 30km/h when a truck on a narrow metal road forced me off into the fence. No insurance claims.

For every good driver/rider, and there are plenty of good drivers/riders here - I know many here can better my own record - there are hundreds who have no right to be behind a steering wheel, (or a pair of handlebars...).

[scumdog]

the fact is it IS a ticketable offence for "not keeping as left as is practical" yet i have never seen it enforced even when is causes a near miss right infront of a cop


Oh don't worry, more than one of the 'fails to keep left' type person has received the appropriate ticket (with commensurate demerit points) after I've seen them offend while I'm out for a ride.....and if I'm 'at work' they get it on the spot.:devil2:

[cowpoos]

Yes, but at least his posts are coherent even when he's pissed.
I was sober when I posted that!!!

[disenfranchised]

the number of times i've come across the same bloody nissan 4x4 near my home where he has been driving with his right hand wheels over the centreline while maintaining over a metre of clearance to the left of the road is appalling.

This gets me all the time.
Why people seem scared to death of getting too close to the cars parked at teh side of the road, that they're willing to risk a head on by crossing the centre line always astounds me.
The head on will be twice the impact that hitting a parked car would be.

And drivers of big SUV type vehicles are worse than others, they obviously have no idea exactly where the edge of their car is, and so give it more space than they need.

[swbarnett]

Sorry, I disagree. The reality is that the standard of driving in this country is abismal and it is a constant amazement to me that the road toll is not three times what it is. The fact is also true that had that idiot woman not hit those warning bumps she would have driven right into my lane and cut me off or hit me were I not already taking action to avoid her and reaching for the horn.
But there's a good chance that if she hadn't been lulled into relying on those warning bumps she wouldn't have strayed out of her lane at all.


It is one thing to say that such and such should be the case, it is another to recognise that such and such is not the case and people have to have these "driving aids" to protect both themselves and the innocent who are affected by their stupidity.
The problem is that people come to rely on these driving aids and when they're not there the situation is even worse. This is a general principle that applies to more than just driving. My wife has been a lecturer at Auckland university in recent years. There were complaints from faculty that the departmental pass rate was too low. In response the department lowered the standard required to pass. What happened? The pass rate stayed the same! The reaction of the department? Lower the standard yet again. The result? The pass rate stayed the same. Notice the pattern emerging?

Driving is no different. Lower the standard required and driver compentence follows. Eventually you have a population that can't drive at all and automated roads are foisted on us. And how do you accommodate motorcycles on an automated road? You can't.


In an ideal world, everyone would be as good a driver as I am, on the roads for 37 years, travelled at speeds up to 210km/h+, three minor speeding tickets, (11 and 12k's over), one minor accident at about 30km/h when a truck on a narrow metal road forced me off into the fence. No insurance claims.
This attitude is part of the problem. I agree that, from what you say, you probably are a good driver. However, almost without exception, the driving public in NZ all consider themselves to be good drivers.


For every good driver/rider, and there are plenty of bad drivers/riders here - I know many here can better my own record - there are hundreds who have no right to be behind a steering wheel, (or a pair of handlebars...).
(I presume you meant "bad" drivers as I've corrected above?)
These are the lazy drivers that are only going to get worse if we demand less of them.

[Newblade]

FWIW, I have ridden just under 1200kms and driven around 1000kms in the last 7 days.
2 things i have observed.1 riding/2 driving.
1 The amount of "legal" riders drifting along behind cars at 95-100kms sitting in the outside of their lane with absolutely no concept of REAR (u know to show whats coming from behind) Mirrors. More dangerous than cars!!!!!!!
Just moseying along NOT PAYING ATTENTION.I understand they all look and think there goes an idiot (LMAO) as i whizz past.But i assure you that at above the speed limit my attention is completely focussed on the task of riding/controlling my bike.And do they not realise that with 3 or 4 riders doing this they are far harder to negotiate then a convoy of BIG trucks.
2 Traffic congestion,as soon as this occurs drivers get time to think.ie whats that mark on the backseat or what was that over THERE!! in the paddock,then once traffic starts to flow they lack the ability to switch back on again(something I believe is a natural behaviour for most who ride bikes).
The general behaviour was good until wellsford thru to orewa.Major bottlenecks.From there until Auckland the behaviour was absolutely shocking.
However to be able to travel those distances without personal mishap or injury makes me happy to have survived another silly season.

[Ocean1]

Anyone got access to the "Taking-it-easy Riders" article in the Dom Post this morning?

It ain't pretty.

[gammaguy]

Born again riders thinking they are still 17 and or on bikes with power that wasnt even a dream back then...

Young dick heads that think they know it all and cos they ride a busa they are bullet prof...

selfishness and lazyness, the No1 killer...

:jerry:


that about sums up the last two crashes i have attended.

nutshell award coming your way:first:

[GrayWolf]

i've always said an IQ test would not only reduce accidents, but solve conjestion too - 75% of people would lose their licence :laugh:

Sad reality is IQ tests have very little use outside of the Academic environment. They simply measure your learning/thinking capacity. :bash: A fluid or 'crystal' intelegence test would be more suitable........ they are the terms used for how the brain comprehends, adapts, integrates new and old learning and experience(s) into a new understanding or knowledge. A driver's/rider's cause and effect test? Now that would be an interesting survey to read.
One reason why so many are labeled as having 'Large Gonads' on the road, their brains havent yet learnt to think abstractly. :crazy:

[GrayWolf]

the fact is it IS a ticketable offence for "not keeping as left as is practical" yet i have never seen it enforced even when is causes a near miss right infront of a cop

I wanted to reply to this in a serious note, so put it separately. Yes it may be a ticketable 'offence', however. It is not good practise overall, as can and has been be discussed liberally in threads like 'Survival skills, etc. Lets be realistic, the 'driving/riding test' is a BASIC level of ability and the rules, laws and expectations are directed towards a 'lemming' mentality. :chase:
I acknowledge that you could be out near the centre line and meet an oncoming vehicle who is over the line. Factor this against the loss of visibility as the apex of the corner appears (line of vision) and you are restricting your chances to avoid an obstruction just out of sight. If these 'laws' are so 'safe' why do we need airbags, sleeping policemen, Traction control etc? Because quite simply the standard of driving is poor. Rather than allow advanced training which I was informed in another thread LTSA feel makes overconfident drivers/riders, give them a nana state set of rules and lots of nice mechanical protection/correction devices.
The one Psychological concept Govt's seem to ignore is the one of 'perceived threat'. You see it on Prog's like fear factor. They are very safely strapped up, over a drop, but the rope is kept loose...... they don't feel secure.
The keep left law is a lemming law, and if people choose to adhere to it totally out of 'blindness'? They are probably driving in the best way they could.
FYI I was a Voly Ambo (NZ), and you are trained to drive using a basic form of the UK Police system :Police:..... Yup go out wide on left bends, go to the kerb on right handers. Exactly the same concept as taught for the Rospa advanced tests in the UK.

[sosman]

Some one needs to shoot the A-holes that travel at 80kph on open rd holding up everyone... then when it comes passing lane ahead time!... the A-holes then speed up to 100kph.

[DarkLord]

I hate these half-wits who sit in the outside lane of passing lanes and don't pass anyone. Probably the main reason it frustrates me (aside from them being dipshits who don't think and just DO things) is because I'm still on the Hyo for now and there isn't that much I can do about it!! :mad:

[vifferman]

Oh don't worry, more than one of the 'fails to keep left' type person has received the appropriate ticket (with commensurate demerit points) after I've seen them offend while I'm out for a ride.....and if I'm 'at work' they get it on the spot.:devil2:
But you may well be an anomaly, Scummy.
If it weren't for your picture appearing in the paper (and a few KBers meeting you in person), it'd be easy to believe you're nothing more'n a pigment of our imagination.