Lay down your bike

[Elysium]

With all this talk of biker crashes happening lately I wondered about this technique I sometimes hear where bikers would deliberatly slide or crash their bike onto the ground to avoid a potentially fatal crash.

Has anyone had to perform this technique to avoid a cras or is it all just myth? I myself woluldn't know how to properly cras a bike so I just concentrate on good braking and looking for danger.

[Pixie]

"I saw I couldn't avoid hitting it,so I laid the bike down"

Translation: "I fell off"

[AllanB]

I think it's a bit of a myth. If you have the time to consider laying down the bike in a controlled manner than chances are you possibly have the time to avoid the incident.

Insurance companies would love the lay down.

Describe the Accident:
I saw this car cut in front of me, I applied the rear brake, sliding the bike and laying it down on it's side to avoid hitting the car. It now has extensive grazing and I am pretty sure the font forks are bent after it flipped.
May I have a new one please?

And Mr/Mrs ACC assessor:
So you came off the bike on purpose?

All that aside, in theory given the right circumstances, and if you have the time it may well be a good idea.


Have you heard about the 'stand-up technique'?

This says if you are having a head-on on a bike and there is NO way out of it, just before impact stand up on the pegs. The theory is that on impact you will be thrown clear of the bike (over it). This is designed to avoid a nasty case of 'tank-nuts' or groin into/through instrument/fairing injury.

Apparently on sports bikes, due to the clip-ons, in a head on it is common to snap both wrists as you cartwheel over. :eek5:


Then theres the 'open drag-pipes add 2 inches to your dick theory....' :crazy:


And of course the Hondas are gay MYTH.

[Jantar]

In order to lay a bike down you have to initiate a lowside crash. That takes more time than braking to a stop. With modern bikes, its a myth.

The idea started back in the days when speedway racing was still in its infancy (that's even before I was born), and those bikes didn't have brakes or gears (they still don't). In the event of a major pile up, the tail end riders would lay their bikes down on the cinder track rather than hit a tangled mess of other bikes and riders at high speed.

[1 Free Man]

With all this talk of biker crashes happening lately I wondered about this technique I sometimes hear where bikers would deliberatly slide or crash their bike onto the ground to avoid a potentially fatal crash.

Has anyone had to perform this technique to avoid a cras or is it all just myth? I myself woluldn't know how to properly cras a bike so I just concentrate on good braking and looking for danger.
Had a dude tell me at one part of it that if I had to lay the bike down I should jump on top of it to avoid injury from the road suface. Yeah Right.
When I asked him how do you perfect your technique for such a maneuver he said to me I should "Go out and practice".
Stupid Fuck.!!! Of course I was going to go out and throw my new bike on the road a few times to practice jumping on top of it!!!!

[Squiggles]

You lay the bike down and it'll be up to fate what happens... stay on and you'll have a say in your destiny (you can attempt to avoid, stop, or at least not hit the wheel arch if it was a car)

[Usarka]

The brakes and tyres on todays bikes are shit. You get much better stopping power from fairings, engine covers and the like.


(p/t)

[Coyote]

Doesn't matter what I do, my bikes will get fucked up.

That's why I'm a refinisher now :D

[slofox]

I once saw a dude do just that - lay the bike down to "avoid" a crash...well he perceived a crash coming but he was a total tit and had no need to do what he did. Fact of the matter was he was way over speed and saw a car nosing out of a driveway on the other side of the road from himself...a) he had miles of room to get through anyway and b) the car driver was barely moving and just getting to a position to see what was on the road. By the time titface had slid to a halt in a shower of sparks car was well stopped. Then rider asked me to perjure myself to get his insurance...fat chance. He shoulda just used the brakes...

[ital916]

rule of thumb, you will always stop quicker if you have two wheels on the ground with all the brakes applied. rubber on road = quick stop.

This laying down thing is a myth, if your mate says he "laid it down", it just means that he crashed the bike. "oh I needed to lay it down mate", ahaha no you didnt, you just fucked up.

[hospitalfood]

years back i did lay a bike down. cars pulls out from left in front of me crossing my lane to go the direction im coming from, i try to cut behind the car but it see's me and stops in middle of my lane, by this time its getting real close and im yelling NO inside my hat, so at the very last second i drop the bike, but im still on it when we hit the car and with the aid of the weight of the bike my knee takes out the right rear light assembly.
result was ambulance case.

my next crash i jumped clean off the bike just before impact with a car and i was fine, couple of scratches but no serious damage to me.

my crash advice is look for a clear flight path and jump at it if you are going to collide with anything. a local guy came off at 220 km/h recently and was ok because he did not hit anything solid ( luck ). people have died at 50 km/h when hitting solid objects

[pritch]

The idea started back in the days when speedway racing was still in its infancy (that's even before I was born),

Me too :whistle:

When I learned to ride (fifty years ago this year, God where did it go?) "laying it down" was talked of as a valid option.

Difficult to conceive of a situation where you might need to do this today but it wouldn't be silly to file it away in the back of the mind. Just in case...

[prettybillie]

if your mate says he "laid it down", it just means that he crashed the bike. "oh I needed to lay it down mate", ahaha no you didnt, you just fucked up.

Hahahahahahahaha - man will never admit that though!!!!!

[fishb8nz]

I was on the major road approaching a crossing where the others had to give way to me. A car pulled out, (r to l) very close to me and I moved right to avoid the contact. Next thing another can followed the first and I was going to hit this car so I swerved and dropped the bike which skidded and hit the car on the passenger side. I was fine and the bike lost it's pegs and levers on the road side.
I know if I'd hit the car full on, I'd have been in way worse condition. All of it happened instinctively and never had the time to plan my options.

[Mystic13]

I go for staying with the bike. Unless the bikes is going to go somewhere you don't want to go (like down a bank).

Some people on here talk about not having the time to react. For many riders time slows down dramatically and you are consciously thinking at the speed you are now even thought everything has slowed down dramaticaly.

I've lost my bike where you know it's gone pass the point of no return and you know you're in for a low side. I've had the time to drop my foot down, kick it up, and then as the bike is rising I'm thinking "oh shit - high side time". I've then looked around and seen where I think I'm launching to and getting ready for the event. In this case the bike just gave a violent shake and carried on it's merry way.

Time distortion is pretty common. Most people notice it when they come off fast riding (say open road to 50k zone) and you think you are going too slow and yet you look down and you're going faster than you think.

There is a good arcade game on here that you can play to develop the skill. "Snake". When you play it get the snake to slow down and then get it to speed up. The problem I have with the game at the moment is that it keeps slowing down and I can't control my turn timing.

When we ride fast we usually do a small amount of time distortion where we slow down time.

All good fun.

I can conceive that there may be a time when you need to lay a bike down but that is to get away from the bike not to stop fast. I'd never practise it or hope to have to need to do it.

[The Stranger]

If leather and tarseal were better at stopping you, your brakes would be made from these materials.

[DUCATI*HARD]

i layed a bike down once,,,came up to a T section in the rain,,,going too hard:gob:,,,back brake locks up:Oops:,,,bike fish tailing hard,,,straight thru intersection up onto footpath,,,up onto someones front lawn,,,heading straight at a brick wall,,,someones house:crazy:dropped it on the side and both wheels slam up against the house:sweatdrop,,,picked bike back up,,,started her:scooter:,,,and took off again:woohoo:,,,all done in a well controlled manner:devil2:,,,but that was like 10 years ago;)

[davereid]

If you have "layed the bike down" you have already had a crash. Seems unlikely that thinks will get better from there !

[wbks]

Sounds like a technique i heard from many a harley rider. They're story was that they learned and used this tecnique to avoid a lethal crash. They would see a highside coming and then just raise their leg and jump off either side of the bike. I was laughing at this which he didn't like. Considering the only time you can tell you are going to highside lasts about a half second before it snaps and flips... How many of you can lift your leg that fast? Anyone else heard this crap?

[dpex]

With all this talk of biker crashes happening lately I wondered about this technique I sometimes hear where bikers would deliberatly slide or crash their bike onto the ground to avoid a potentially fatal crash.

Has anyone had to perform this technique to avoid a cras or is it all just myth? I myself woluldn't know how to properly cras a bike so I just concentrate on good braking and looking for danger.


No worries mate. Just attend, as spectator, any track-day which Sinfull is riding. You'll get heaps of first-hand experience. :banana:

[XP@]

A friend laid his bike down and slid under a big truck that had pulled out in front of him.
As he came out the other side fluke managed to bite the tires which flipped the bike up. Wobbling a bit he brought the bike to a stop and promptly fell over again.
I didn't see this accident but i did see the after effects. And had the pleasure of taking the piss out of him as he tried to remove the smell of the same from his leathers.

[sunhuntin]

Have you heard about the 'stand-up technique'?

This says if you are having a head-on on a bike and there is NO way out of it, just before impact stand up on the pegs. The theory is that on impact you will be thrown clear of the bike (over it). This is designed to avoid a nasty case of 'tank-nuts' or groin into/through instrument/fairing injury.


yep, this is the method i used when i got pulled out on. all i had time for was to think "on impact, jump" before i was playing a cape-less superman over the front bonnet. had i stayed with the bike, i either would have been pinned under the car and dragged, or pinned under the bike and burned. felt guilty leaving the bike, specially hearing her struggle to a stall drowning under her own petrol, but would rather my skin stay on.

[vtec]

I've heard it from a Harley rider before. It's bullcrap. You get way better traction/control with the tyres on the ground. Can't see how intentionally dropping it can help you at all unless you're already on the grass and heading towards an obstacle. In otherwords, you've already failed.

[MD]

Have you heard about the 'stand-up technique'?

This says if you are having a head-on on a bike and there is NO way out of it, just before impact stand up on the pegs. The theory is that on impact you will be thrown clear of the bike (over it). This is designed to avoid a nasty case of 'tank-nuts' or groin into/through instrument/fairing injury.

.
I did this once and I'm pretty sure it saved me a lot more pain. I was following a car along Tuam St, Chch. He starts slowing under braking and pulls up left in a line of empty parking spaces. No indication of course, brakes to an almost standstill. As I am about to ride passed him he swings out to do a u-turn (don't you just love u-turns). I was an idiot, I should have realised that they were his parents standing on the other side of the road and he wanted to swing around to see them. Totally my fault not picking that up.

I hit the brakes, instant lock up of the rear. Didn't matter, I knew I only had less than 2 seconds before impact but I did manage to swerve across the centreline hopeful that he would hear my tyres screaming and stop before completing turn - the opposing lane was clear. He did make eye contact as I was about to hit his door pillar- gave me that "oops, my bad look ".

Anyway I knew from that first instant that a crash was 99% certain and I was looking for anything softer than the side of the car to hit. The clear blue sky above his roof looked decidely attractive, so I just pushed upward with my legs. friends saw the crash and later told me I got some real good height, well over the roof. Could become an Olympic event that.

But the best laid plan cocked up on landing. As I went over his roof I remember thinking, well done man, that's clever, now just land and slide. I went head over heels though and lost any idea where/when I was going to hit terra firma. The road pointed out to me when contact had in deed been made. Pushed my legs well up towards my chin and broke a leg..again, bloody bikes! The prick got done for careless driving and slapped quite hard with that damp bus ticket.

But back to the subject. YES, I think when it's all pear shaped and you haven't got time to veer left, right or stop, then find a clear trajectory and aim your aerodynamic bod at it.

[Sully60]

Difficult to conceive of a situation where you might need to do this today but it wouldn't be silly to file it away in the back of the mind. Just in case...

Not that difficult, check this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/dorset/6950033.stm):shit:

[jrandom]

Considering the only time you can tell you are going to highside lasts about a half second before it snaps and flips...

That half second can be pretty subjective, mind you. The one time I highsided on the road it felt like I spent about a full minute going sideways before I got spat off.

Imagine how long the crash would have lasted if I'd been baked!

[Usarka]

I was on the major road approaching a crossing where the others had to give way to me. A car pulled out, (r to l) very close to me and I moved right to avoid the contact. Next thing another can followed the first and I was going to hit this car so I swerved and dropped the bike which skidded and hit the car on the passenger side. I was fine and the bike lost it's pegs and levers on the road side.
I know if I'd hit the car full on, I'd have been in way worse condition. All of it happened instinctively and never had the time to plan my options.

Did you slow down quicker than the bike so by the time you came in conatct upi were going real slow, or did you somehoew head in a different direction?

If the former are you saying leather vs tarmac is bettier stopping power than brembos and pilot powers?

[Sully60]

Imagine how long the crash would have lasted if I'd been baked!

Yeah, you might have needed to stop off for munchies!

[pete376403]

It probably still is a valid speedway technique, certainly was when I was riding and the bikes have exactly the same brakes now as they did then (none).
In pre season practice it was a requirment to do a couple of drops when a steward at the trackside signalled.
In my 16 odd years of riding the skids I probably deliberately dropped the bike less than 5 times to avoid a pile up (but many many more times exceeding my riding ability...)

[Ixion]

The whole "lay down the bike to avoid a crash" is one of those strange USA things. It's big over there , especially with the Harley people, to the point where it's even recommended practice by some law enforcement agencies (!!).

It probably made some sense in the old days when most roads were gravel or pumice , because with a dropped bike the sticky out bits would dig into the ground and probably stop you quicker than the practically non-existent brakes of the day . Likewise, for speedway, which is on a cinder track

On a sealed road, laying the bike down is ALWAYS going to mean that you hit harder and faster than if you braked it out. And you lose the opportunity for a life saving dodge if an exit opens up , as often happens.

The only situation I can think of , generically, where it would be better to lay it down, would be if you were going to go over a cliff. It's better to slide over, with a chance of your fall being arrested by brush, than be catapulted over upright. Gravel, or grass, or sand, is another matter , and every case will probably vary. And there will always be the oddball freak "I paid it down and slid under the truck unharmed" stories, which cannot, however, be considered to justify a general practice.

[sinfull]

No worries mate. Just attend, as spectator, any track-day which Sinfull is riding. You'll get heaps of first-hand experience. :banana:

Awww Now David, i do have to wonder who your planning on blaming for all the bins you've had while your not trying to keep up to me ?
I have yet to see you bin mate but it's pretty obvious why, part moggy aint ya ? Cause ya sure as hell spend a lot of time scratchin around in the kitty litter !

[Mystic13]

I did this once and I'm pretty sure it saved me a lot more pain. I was following a car along Tuam St, Chch. He starts slowing under braking and pulls up left in a line of empty parking spaces. No indication of course, brakes to an almost standstill. As I am about to ride passed him he swings out to do a u-turn (don't you just love u-turns). I was an idiot, I should have realised that they were his parents standing on the other side of the road and he wanted to swing around to see them. Totally my fault not picking that up.

I hit the brakes, instant lock up of the rear. Didn't matter, I knew I only had less than 2 seconds before impact but I did manage to swerve across the centreline hopeful that he would hear my tyres screaming and stop before completing turn - the opposing lane was clear. He did make eye contact as I was about to hit his door pillar- gave me that "oops, my bad look ".

Anyway I knew from that first instant that a crash was 99% certain and I was looking for anything softer than the side of the car to hit. The clear blue sky above his roof looked decidely attractive, so I just pushed upward with my legs. friends saw the crash and later told me I got some real good height, well over the roof. Could become an Olympic event that.

But the best laid plan cocked up on landing. As I went over his roof I remember thinking, well done man, that's clever, now just land and slide. I went head over heels though and lost any idea where/when I was going to hit terra firma. The road pointed out to me when contact had in deed been made. Pushed my legs well up towards my chin and broke a leg..again, bloody bikes! The prick got done for careless driving and slapped quite hard with that damp bus ticket.

But back to the subject. YES, I think when it's all pear shaped and you haven't got time to veer left, right or stop, then find a clear trajectory and aim your aerodynamic bod at it.





That half second can be pretty subjective, mind you. The one time I highsided on the road it felt like I spent about a full minute going sideways before I got spat off.

Imagine how long the crash would have lasted if I'd been baked!


Yep, that's what I'm talking about. Time slowing down and you seem to have all the time in the world to think about what you're doing in fractions of a second. It's an amazing experience.

Imagine if you could do that in real life when ever you choose. Actually there are many sports people who do and they seem to excel. I remember John McInroe commenting about the ball taking forever to come over the net and he couldn't understand why other players weren't responding to it.

I'm guessing really good racers do it as well.

[Oscar]

Having crashed a fair few times on-road and off, I have to say that the option of "laying 'er down" never, ever occurred (and caused me a fair bit of mirth the first time the principal was explained to me).

Crashes come in two varieties - the unexpected / "never saw that coming" variety, and the (more common) "opps, this is gonna hurt" / time slows down flavour.

So therefore the only common thoughts were either: a) shock, as I slid down the road, wondering what the fuck had just happened, or b) "I can save this..." my throttle hand is usually the last to part company with the bike..

The latter appears to be common, as the number of hand injuries suffered by top racers will testify. Guys like Doohan and Slight suffered injuries to their throttle hands based on the theory that "..if my hand is still on the throttle I can still save it...".