Best '90's 400cc sporty bike?

[samgab]

I've got another previous thread about how I'm thinking of getting a new 650cc bike when I get my full in a few months, but since then I've been having second thoughts.
I'm now starting to think maybe I'd be better to step from my 150 up to a 400cc older sports bike, and then make the step to a 650cc new bike later on down the track.

So I've been looking at this sort of thing:
VFR400R
RVF400R
CBR400RR
GSX400F
GSXR400
RF400R
FZR400
ZZR400

-any of the above from anywhere in the '90's... Preferably under $6G.

So to any owners of any of the 400's mentioned above, or a previous owner; which ones are excellent in terms of reliability? Assuming it's been reasonably maintained, which ones have annoying quirks, and which ones are rock solid and reliable?
I really like the RVF400 best, I think, but they seem rare. Next preference is the VFR400, but they're getting pretty old, and I just wonder how reliable they are as a daily commuter...
A slightly newer CBR400RR "babyblade" might be good too...
Some of the things on the RVF seem pretty ahead of their time, such as upside-downies. I don't know what the V4 engine is like though...

[racefactory]

I think everyone here will agree with me that the V4's are the most reliable. They are bomb proof. It may be a 90's machine adn getting old but they go forever. They have gear driven cams so it's 100% reliability in that respect, with the added cool sound you get. The wheels will fall off before the motor is done for... this is what these bikes are known for.



The only one that can make a mark against the NC30 is the ZXR400. But that has head gasket problems and a rear tyre that some regard as too wide for it's own good.

You never need to worry about the 400cc V4... it's good shit man.

The RVF400 NC35 is an NC30 with a different skin on. It's extremely similar. It actually produces less power than the NC30 due to different carburetors. It has upgraded suspension and a 17 inch rear wheel instead of the 18 on the NC30. That's all to really say about the NC35- we think of them as the same bike really.

The v4's sound absolutely wicked too.

Get a V4.



CBR400 is good too!

[samgab]

Flippin' heck a legendary CBR900RR Fireblade for $5700 !!
Are you kidding me? I remember in 1992 when these where the hottest thing out there.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Sports/auction-194767751.htm

It's got low Kms too. Mmmm. :drool:

If only I had my 6F already! Er, and a bit more cash.

[samgab]

I think everyone here will agree with me that the V4's are the most reliable. They are bomb proof. It may be a 90's machine adn getting old but they go forever. The wheels will fall off before the motor is done for... this is what these bikes are known for.



The only one that can make a mark against the NC30 is the ZXR400. But that has head gasket problems.

You never need to worry about the 400cc V4... it's good shit man.

The RVF400 NC35 is an NC30 with a different skin on. It's very similar. It actually produces less power than the NC30 due to different carburetors. It has upgraded suspension and a 17 inch rear wheel instead of the 18 on the NC30. That's all to really say about the NC35- we think of them as the same bike really.

The v4's sound absolutely wicked too.

Get a V4.



CBR400 is good too!

Thanks for that feedback, it's good to hear from someone who's owned... 3 was it? ... VFR400's. And I see you've just sold your current one. I was going to ask you about them on that thread anyway, but decided to create a new thread instead :)

So that pretty much clinches it. I've always liked Honda's reputation for reliability anyway, and I'm going to go out and try to find a VFR400 so I can hear what they sound like.

I'd also thought that the "V" engine configuration has benefits, like compactness and torque (and great sound) etc, but I wanted to get something with 4 cylinders, so wasn't that keen on a V-twin. So a V4 would answer both of those things. I also hear that the V4 engine has a distinctive whine due to cam gears instead of chain or belt. I guess gears are more reliable than belts too, not much can go wrong there.

I'll have to read your thread about tuning the carbs on the VFR too, at some stage.

[samgab]

addendum to previous,

vfr vs rvf...

I prefer the following about the rvf:

Headlight design/look
USD forks. Look hot, and lighter unsprung mass?
More standard 17" back wheel, for getting tires...


But I guess none of those things are a big deal really.
Are the 18" rears easy enough to get, and similarly priced to 17" rears?

[racefactory]

Thanks for that feedback, it's good to hear from someone who's owned... 3 was it? ... VFR400's. And I see you've just sold your current one. I was going to ask you about them on that thread anyway, but decided to create a new thread instead :)

So that pretty much clinches it. I've always liked Honda's reputation for reliability anyway, and I'm going to go out and try to find a VFR400 so I can hear what they sound like.

I'd also thought that the "V" engine configuration has benefits, like compactness and torque (and great sound) etc, but I wanted to get something with 4 cylinders, so wasn't that keen on a V-twin. So a V4 would answer both of those things. I also hear that the V4 engine has a distinctive whine due to cam gears instead of chain or belt. I guess gears are more reliable than belts too, not much can go wrong there.

I'll have to read your thread about tuning the carbs on the VFR too, at some stage.


Yeah your right. The V4 is very compact, low down and forward in the frame, which is just where you'd want the weight. Yes the sound of the cam gears is wicked.

I had a few kb'ers come round to test my bike and the sound of it when someone else is riding it in front of you is pure greatness.

[samgab]

Well Vtec hasn't paid and collected the bike yet so your welcome to come and hear it and see one if your serious about checking out one of these machines. If your quick you can come before he comes round and takes it off of me!

Yeah your right. The V4 is very compact, low down and forward in the frame, which is just where you'd want the weight. Yes the sound of the cam gears is wicked.

I had a few kb'ers come round to test my bike and the sound of it when someone else is riding it in front of you is pure greatness.

Hmmmm, where abouts do you live? In Aucks?

[racefactory]

Yup on the North Shore.

Well in terms of tyres- you really only want these tyres...

bridgestone BT090, dunlop GPRa10. These are the best things you can put on these bikes. Stick like shit to a blanket, designed for the smaller bikes. The F3 racing boys use these on their 400's...

Bridgestone BT92, Dunlop GPR100 the sport tourer equivalents. Still a fucking great tyres I hear. Real good stuff.

True you can't select hundreds of different tyres but they are really the only ones you want. The tyre places always have them too....

[racerhead]

Another vote for the V4's here because I had a RVF for a while and loved everything about the bike. Totaly reliable and handles beautifully and then the sound:clap:

Anyone that had or has either V4 will always have something good to say about them and I would look at getting another one some day as a project and turn it into the ultimate 400 racebike:drool:

Anyway go for either VFR or RVF and you will be very happy with them:niceone:

[McDuck]

I've got another previous thread about how I'm thinking of getting a new 650cc bike when I get my full in a few months, but since then I've been having second thoughts.
I'm now starting to think maybe I'd be better to step from my 150 up to a 400cc older sports bike, and then make the step to a 650cc new bike later on down the track.

So I've been looking at this sort of thing:
VFR400R
RVF400R
CBR400RR
GSX400F
GSXR400
RF400R
FZR400
ZZR400

-any of the above from anywhere in the '90's... Preferably under $6G.

So to any owners of any of the 400's mentioned above, or a previous owner; which ones are excellent in terms of reliability? Assuming it's been reasonably maintained, which ones have annoying quirks, and which ones are rock solid and reliable?
I really like the RVF400 best, I think, but they seem rare. Next preference is the VFR400, but they're getting pretty old, and I just wonder how reliable they are as a daily commuter...
A slightly newer CBR400RR "babyblade" might be good too...
Some of the things on the RVF seem pretty ahead of their time, such as upside-downies. I don't know what the V4 engine is like though...


I am currently getting my fun time form a GSX400ssn Katana.



I highly recoment it over any and all other bikes, it is amazing ;)

[lostinflyz]

the vfr is a nice bike. it does what its supposed to in a good way. especially on the road. the rvf is better in most aspects but only by the slightest of margins. but these days the vfr's are getting pretty tatty and they are the hardest bike to work on by miles. With these older 400's you need to be able to do most the work on them yourself or someone will run away with all your money.

The cbr400 is pretty similar to the vfr but just not as speccy and i cant say im a big fan of them really but thats just personal preferance. The zxr's are alright in zippy terms but i have heard of alot of problems. The fzr400's are slow and floppy. cant say i know much about the others except the gsxr400 which is also a really good bike. There pretty rare so parts can be hard and expensive to come by but if you find a good one in reasonable nick they are reliable and probably as good as any 400. And they are a bit more exclusive as no one has one (esp. the SP model.)

If i had 6 grand to spend id be looking at a RVF400 in spotless order or a gsxr400sp from about 93 onwards. for 5 grand you should get either of these in reasonable order (a few scratches are common, but nothing else) dont be sucked in by guys offering these up at huge prices or any other of the 400's.

anyway that was a nice big rant.

[MsKABC]

There are some great bikes there to be sure. We were looking at some of them for me recently, but we ended up buying an '88 Honda Bros. (NT400) Yes, I know, it's a retarded name for a m/cycle, like parents naming their kid Dudley or something!

Anyway, after spending the weekend working on it, hubby reckons it's the best $2500 we could ever spend on a bike. (This includes the new tyres we put on). He came back from a test ride last night grinning from ear to ear (and he normally rides a 748!) saying that it is a really good little hoon bike. For an unfaired bike it looks pretty cool, and after the pipe mods he's just finished, it now actually sounds like a proper v-twin and has better mid-range torque (well, that's what he tells me at least :laugh:) It's a really confidence-inspiring bike for me to ride and a great step up for me from my gpz250. I :love: it! It's very forgiving too.

I don't think there are too many around, but they do come in a 650 version too.

Good luck finding your next dream bike :)

[lostinflyz]

There are some great bikes there to be sure. We were looking at some of them for me recently, but we ended up buying an '88 Honda Bros. (NT400) Yes, I know, it's a retarded name for a m/cycle, like parents naming their kid Dudley or something!

Anyway, after spending the weekend working on it, hubby reckons it's the best $2500 we could ever spend on a bike. (This includes the new tyres we put on). He came back from a test ride last night grinning from ear to ear (and he normally rides a 748!) saying that it is a really good little hoon bike. For an unfaired bike it looks pretty cool, and after the pipe mods he's just finished, it now actually sounds like a proper v-twin and has better mid-range torque (well, that's what he tells me at least :laugh:) It's a really confidence-inspiring bike for me to ride and a great step up for me from my gpz250. I :love: it! It's very forgiving too.

I don't think there are too many around, but they do come in a 650 version too.

Good luck finding your next dream bike :)

second that one. there was a 650 bros i think cruising up the lewis during the holidays and it looked nice and fun and had a beautiful sound. never ridden one so dont know what they like.

[scracha]

CBR400 is obviously the best. FZR400 handles nicer but a bit fragile. Wouldn't touch the GSXR's with a bargepole.......there's a reason why not many of them left.

These are not "novice" bikes though. A bros 650, 650 versys or SV650 is probably a safer buy and easier to ride.

[chocobo_ff]

I think you can do all the research and comparison you want on paper or the computer (which is, admittedly, what I'm doing), but your best bet would be to save up as much as you can now, then do the comparison when you get your 6F :) I've forced myself away from thinking about which bike to get after I sit my 6F later this month and decided to just go and do as many test-rides as I can, as I find I waste way too much time doing all the comparing and dreaming, and since I'm back to work today, I can't afford to waste time browsing the net looking at bikes constantly :eek5:

That said, maybe you should make a spreadsheet comparing all the bikes you listed like the one you have for the new 600/650s you were looking at just for the sake of it :niceone:

[racefactory]

CBR400 is obviously the best. FZR400 handles nicer but a bit fragile. Wouldn't touch the GSXR's with a bargepole.......there's a reason why not many of them left.

These are not "novice" bikes though. A bros 650, 650 versys or SV650 is probably a safer buy and easier to ride.

The CBR400 is alright, would be much better to work on than the NC30. So if your into modding and greasing than that's probably the better bet, would be a damn site easier for valves/spark plugs/ carb balancing and all the engine works. And I really did wish for that sometimes with the V4. However that bike is just lacks the specs and is a long shot short of being exotic like the NC30.

I have not heard too many things about the gixxer 400 but then again, i wouldnt go near it due to parts...

hands down majority says the NC30 is the best 400- but it's personal preference aint it?

[racefactory]

They are definately the most beautiful too...

here's our KB v4 selection...

[quickbuck]

.......there's a reason why not many of them left.

.
Eh, they were never a NZ market bike....
Tonnes of them in their mother land. Just a matter of getting them here.

My vote actually goes to the CBR.
Yep, VFR would be very nice, especially in NC35 trim... or better yet the NC45! However, unless you have the hands of a double jointed Japanese robot, they are a bit of a pain to do anything on under the skin.

CBR comes with Honda reliability, and a very smooth engine (so long as it was looked after).
As mentioned there are plenty of other options out there too....
The Bros may be an option.... The Street fighter look in coming into fashion, so a little tickle up, and some small fancy plastic bits could make it look pretty trick.

[vtec]

I think the VFR is lighter? And handles better? And has more torque?

[mashman]

ZXR400 for me!!! I did get to ride a friends brand new VFR400 back in the day and it was all nice and pleasant, but didn't leave me with that eye bobbling sensation where you feel like your eyes have detached from their retina because your brain has just been liquidized by the vibrations of the screaming bitch between your legs...

Having said that the ZXR needed constant TLC... salty roads in the Scotland required brake maintenance the likes of which I never hope to repeat, 2 head gaskets went poof, circlip broke in the gearbox and it locked in second and I blew her up once doing 125mph on the motorway... havin said that when she popped she went gracefully, spewing oil out of her arse and still running. I stopped when I heard the grinding. Got a second hand engine for buttons and that one seemed pretty bulletproof...

Get the ZXR if only for the eye bobbly muchy brain sensation, if fakin bizzarre...

[nico]

honda v4 either vfr or rvf cant go wrong

[Hoon]

Personal preference really. Performance wise there is not a lot of difference between the big 3 (FZR 3TJ, VFR NC30/NC35, ZXR L model).

I prefer the ZXR but that's more due to having the most exposure and racing 2 of them rather than the result of any extensive research, but either of the above bikes you can't go wrong.

The ZXR seems to be the most popular 400cc on the F3 grid these days. There used to be more VFR/GSXRs but these have thinned out over the years. Don't see a lot of FZR/CBR or RVFs at all.

The ZXRs are a fav with racers because the SP model comes with flatslide carbs, fully adjustable USD forks, adjustable race cams and other goodies, that means these parts can also be fitted to standard ZXRs under current F3 rules. Also parts from the 96-99 zx6r (rear shock and rear 180 wheel) fit onto the 400.

Haven't had any reliability issues with mine, they've all performed flawlessly (no mechanical DNFs to date) - guess it all depends on how well they are maintained.

[vtec]

Best 400cc and below bike...

CBR250RR for the win haha.
Check these results. I've posted them far too many times. Just makes me laugh.
http://www.silver-bullet.co.nz/eventresults.php?eventid=5510
7th equal place in F3... CBR250RR, only one non 650 ahead.
It's for sale here too
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=89481
Only done the one race day, and one track day.

[samgab]

Best 400cc and below bike...

CBR250RR for the win haha.
Check these results. I've posted them far too many times. Just makes me laugh.
http://www.silver-bullet.co.nz/eventresults.php?eventid=5510
7th equal place in F3... CBR250RR, only one non 650 ahead.
It's for sale here too
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=89481
Only done the one race day, and one track day.

Hey hey hey, quit trying to plug your CBR... We all know you prefer VFR400's now... ;)

[samgab]

the vfr is a nice bike. it does what its supposed to in a good way. especially on the road. the rvf is better in most aspects but only by the slightest of margins. but these days the vfr's are getting pretty tatty and they are the hardest bike to work on by miles. With these older 400's you need to be able to do most the work on them yourself or someone will run away with all your money.

The cbr400 is pretty similar to the vfr but just not as speccy and i cant say im a big fan of them really but thats just personal preferance. The zxr's are alright in zippy terms but i have heard of alot of problems. The fzr400's are slow and floppy. cant say i know much about the others except the gsxr400 which is also a really good bike. There pretty rare so parts can be hard and expensive to come by but if you find a good one in reasonable nick they are reliable and probably as good as any 400. And they are a bit more exclusive as no one has one (esp. the SP model.)

If i had 6 grand to spend id be looking at a RVF400 in spotless order or a gsxr400sp from about 93 onwards. for 5 grand you should get either of these in reasonable order (a few scratches are common, but nothing else) dont be sucked in by guys offering these up at huge prices or any other of the 400's.

anyway that was a nice big rant.

Thanks for that advice. I can do a lot of the basic work myself (oil/filters/spark plugs/general service stuff), but when it gets to changing cam shims and stuff I generally leave it to a workshop. Also, having read up on how tricky it is to adjust the carb sync on the VFR, I don't think I'd be up to that -- don't have the tools for it.

I should clarify: I won't be racing at ALL. Will be commuting to/from work, and also going on the odd cruise to Coro/Rotorua/Waihi, etc.
Being known for reliability and fuel economy are higher on my list than being able to stick my eyeballs to the back of my skull. :)
But I'd still like it to be fun to ride.

[samgab]

Well, in the poll so far it's a crushing victory to the mighty Honda V4!!

Also, I was just browsing the cover of the October 2008 Performance Bikes magazine, and on the cover: "NC30. MUST. HAVE. ONE."
In a late 2008 bike magazine, that's a fairly surprising cover.

Quotes from the article:
"...Accepted nugget of NC30 wisdom number two: It's the perfect first sportsbike...."
"...It turns out that the old cliche about Honda V4s being deceptively fast is absolutely true. It's an easy if not especially quick steering bike. The ride quality is fantastic - pliant yet controlled, even at speed. But above all else there's a sense that the NC30 is hardly trying..."

This from a writer whose usual ride is a 2008 R6.

[quickbuck]

I think the VFR is lighter? And handles better? And has more torque?

However the riding position is a little more scrunched up.
The pillion accommodation is non existent, unless it is for Bubbles (Wacko Jacko's Chimp).
And the Hunger for fuel of the VFR rivals it's 750 big brother......

Aside from this, if I was going to buy a 400 again, the VFR would be for me....
As I will only buy a 400 for weekend blasts, and most likely track time....

I must say Samgab, I think your head is in the right place when you have made the decision to step to a 400 from your 150, rather than take the 600 route. I make it a rule to only ever get a bike that won't scare me... and frankly, a 600 is a big step from a 150.....

[McDuck]

I still feel a katana 400 is superior.


Just onbody as ridden one because they have been distracted by the honda.



Get the katana 400...


If you can find one... worth the wait...

[quickbuck]

I still feel a katana 400 is superior.


Just onbody as ridden one because they have been distracted by the honda.



Get the katana 400...


If you can find one... worth the wait...

The trouble is that Suzuki make the Katana.....

[lostinflyz]

Thanks for that advice. I can do a lot of the basic work myself (oil/filters/spark plugs/general service stuff), but when it gets to changing cam shims and stuff I generally leave it to a workshop. Also, having read up on how tricky it is to adjust the carb sync on the VFR, I don't think I'd be up to that -- don't have the tools for it.

I should clarify: I won't be racing at ALL. Will be commuting to/from work, and also going on the odd cruise to Coro/Rotorua/Waihi, etc.
Being known for reliability and fuel economy are higher on my list than being able to stick my eyeballs to the back of my skull. :)
But I'd still like it to be fun to ride.

for the money you speak of you shouldn't have to touch much in terms of carby synch screws or cam shims. That said shims are pretty easy.

if your doing alot of cruising and commuting rather than riding youll love a 650 twin alot more as they are much cruisy and town nice. A 4 cylinder bike is made to be riden near on or over the rev limiter. which is dangerous in town.

[dave222]

How much are you looking to sell your bike for? I currently own an 87 VFR400R and am looking to downgrade as only have learners.

Could do a swap of some sorts

[McDuck]

The trouble is that Suzuki make the Katana.....

Could be worse... it could be made by honda....

[frogfeaturesFZR]

I've got a FZR 400 and I love it. Corners like it's on rails. I have Pirelli Sport demons front and rear and they're great. Mines done 75k now and still runs great. Mind you I change the oil and filter every 2500 k's. You can't really go wrong with any of the 400 sports. Just don't think they're going to be comfortable for a long run. After all they are all SPORT bikes. Enjoy whatever you choose.:done:

[samgab]

How much are you looking to sell your bike for? I currently own an 87 VFR400R and am looking to downgrade as only have learners.

Could do a swap of some sorts

You mean my FXR150? I was hoping to get around 1700 or so for it. Just bought it a couple of months ago for 1950. The fairing has scratches on both the left and right sides, due to previous owners laying it down at low speed, one on each side :Oops:
Apart from that she's pretty sweet though. Runs really well, and Kms are relatively low (20K). As soon as I bought it I changed oil, oil filter, new air filter foam element, checked spark plugs, thoroughly cleaned and lubed the chain, and basically did a full service. Both tires are new, shims were recently done in the cams, and sparkplug replaced.

Trouble is, I'm only on my restricted, and only just got it. So I have 6 months left on my restricted, or maybe 3 months if I do the street talk course thing.
Man, if you were still looking to downgrade in 3 months, it would be the perfect swap, in my opinion, cos I wouldn't have to also worry about selling the FXR. The timing is just a bit out.

[Dargor]

VFR's feel fat compaired to my fzr, oh and they one i rode had a pansy clutch.

Dont know about reliability, I've known both to break.

I love my fzr apart from it not being in original condition. Would like to ride a cbr to compare with.

[samgab]

I still feel a katana 400 is superior.


Just onbody as ridden one because they have been distracted by the honda.



Get the katana 400...


If you can find one... worth the wait...

You know, it's funny: I'd never even heard of the Katana 400. I don't know anything about them. What other bikes do they share their motor with? And what sort of motor is it? I know about the Katana 750, which has been replaced by the GSX650F, but not the 400...
Do you have any pix?
Oh, and I have nothing against either Honda or Suzuki. I've owned both. But if I had to choose, gun to my head, on build quality, I'd have to go with Honda... And it seems from what I've read that Honda paid particular attention to the quality of their VFR's... Maybe because it (V4) was a technology that other companies weren't embracing, and they were more expensive, so there had to be convincing reason to buy one... I dunno though.

[samgab]

However the riding position is a little more scrunched up.
The pillion accommodation is non existent, unless it is for Bubbles (Wacko Jacko's Chimp).
And the Hunger for fuel of the VFR rivals it's 750 big brother......

Aside from this, if I was going to buy a 400 again, the VFR would be for me....
As I will only buy a 400 for weekend blasts, and most likely track time....

I must say Samgab, I think your head is in the right place when you have made the decision to step to a 400 from your 150, rather than take the 600 route. I make it a rule to only ever get a bike that won't scare me... and frankly, a 600 is a big step from a 150.....

Hmmm, some interesting points there, thanks.
1/ I'm short enough that scrunched riding position doesn't bother me much.
2/ I hate carrying pillions, so I doubt I ever will need a back seat.
3/ Now this is an issue. I want an economical bike. That's a major consideration for me!!! I want it to be substantially cheaper to run than my car.

And thanks for the positive feedback too... Some people are still suggesting the SV650 etc, but I don't know. I reckon 2 jumps to a 650/600 will be better than 1 jump from a 150. Hey, if I keep the 400 for a couple of years I might be ready for a new CBR600RR or something even... I think they're even lighter.

[McDuck]

Jim2 did a resto on the one i currently ride.
Here is the thread.


http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=51151

they share parts withthe bandet and GSXR of the same years and engine size.
Fantastic bike :)

[racefactory]

Hmmm, some interesting points there, thanks.
1/ I'm short enough that scrunched riding position doesn't bother me much.
2/ I hate carrying pillions, so I doubt I ever will need a back seat.
3/ Now this is an issue. I want an economical bike. That's a major consideration for me!!! I want it to be substantially cheaper to run than my car.



I don't know what he's on about mate... thrashing the Nc30 about a bit with a bit of normal driving I get pretty much 20km a litre. If i was driving it economically it'd get 22k

Tank is about 10L if you fill up at the reserve and it gets me 200k most of the time and that's weekend blasting, thursday night rides etc... not commuting...

This is the 97/98 octane stuff.

I reckon that's alright.

Also i'm 79,80kg so not that light, you say your a bit shorter so if your lighter should be better than that...

[McDuck]

Re fule usages... i have worked her real hard and gotten up to 7l per hundred kms (avrage speed for the 200km trip was up over 130kph) and have had it as low as 3l per hundred on the motorway.

And i was not going slow ither.

[racefactory]

I'm really surprised at those good fuel mileage stats considering all those mcduck burgers you've been eating

[samgab]

I don't know what he's on about mate... thrashing the Nc30 about a bit with a bit of normal driving I get pretty much 20km a litre. If i was driving it economically it'd get 22k

Tank is about 10L if you fill up at the reserve and it gets me 200k most of the time and that's weekend blasting, thursday night rides etc... not commuting...

This is the 97/98 octane stuff.

I reckon that's alright.

Also i'm 79,80kg so not that light, you say your a bit shorter so if your lighter should be better than that...

Oh well that's fine. 200Kms from 10ltrs is pretty good. I'm a bit lighter than you, so might be a bit better still, though I tend to be fairly throttle-happy... But that's how they're meant to be ridden aye.

[samgab]

Re fule usages... i have worked her real hard and gotten up to 7l per hundred kms (avrage speed for the 200km trip was up over 130kph) and have had it as low as 3l per hundred on the motorway.

And i was not going slow ither.

Oh cool. Turns out that the GSX400F I was talking about is a form of Katana all along anyway. So I already had the Katana 400 on the list. ;) Just a couple of years newer than your one, where they changed the fairing a bit, and it has the same motor as the GSXR400R of the same year.

[samgab]

I think you can do all the research and comparison you want on paper or the computer (which is, admittedly, what I'm doing), but your best bet would be to save up as much as you can now, then do the comparison when you get your 6F :) I've forced myself away from thinking about which bike to get after I sit my 6F later this month and decided to just go and do as many test-rides as I can, as I find I waste way too much time doing all the comparing and dreaming, and since I'm back to work today, I can't afford to waste time browsing the net looking at bikes constantly :eek5:

That said, maybe you should make a spreadsheet comparing all the bikes you listed like the one you have for the new 600/650s you were looking at just for the sake of it :niceone:

Weeeeeeeell, seeing as you asked; and just for the sake of it:

http://tinyurl.com/7ebgs4

Same sort of thing as before.
It's harder with older bikes, because different websites show differing specs, and there are different models for different markets all here in NZ.
I have to assume that they're Jap imports available here in NZ, in which case they were restricted to 59HP up to '92, then restricted to 53HP from '93 onwards (Japan 400cc power restrictions). Dumb.
Anyway, take any specs in there with a grain of salt, as they could well be wrong, such as the weight for the VFR... They were quite different weights, depending on which market they were for, or which website you read. Also different power ratings etc.
Although now, about 15-19 years later, I doubt that any will be making their original power output anyway. I don't care, they're all more powerful than an FXR150!

And yes, again; I know that specs on paper are almost meaningless.

[McDuck]

I'm really surprised at those good fuel mileage stats considering all those mcduck burgers you've been eating

Its a testoment to the set up of the bike.

[dave222]

You mean my FXR150? I was hoping to get around 1700 or so for it. Just bought it a couple of months ago for 1950. The fairing has scratches on both the left and right sides, due to previous owners laying it down at low speed, one on each side :Oops:
Apart from that she's pretty sweet though. Runs really well, and Kms are relatively low (20K). As soon as I bought it I changed oil, oil filter, new air filter foam element, checked spark plugs, thoroughly cleaned and lubed the chain, and basically did a full service. Both tires are new, shims were recently done in the cams, and sparkplug replaced.

Trouble is, I'm only on my restricted, and only just got it. So I have 6 months left on my restricted, or maybe 3 months if I do the street talk course thing.
Man, if you were still looking to downgrade in 3 months, it would be the perfect swap, in my opinion, cos I wouldn't have to also worry about selling the FXR. The timing is just a bit out.

I may be interested in buying/swapping whenever suites you. Its a black black, has a fair bit of scratches down one side as I got a little too keen on the gravel, runs mint although she needs a few revs when cold. Has current rego, new front and rear discs and pads. Wof expired last month and have not gotten another yet as needs new tires, they are not worn just have some slight sidewall cracks. Send me a message and we will talk more.

[scracha]

http://www.silver-bullet.co.nz/eventresults.php?eventid=5510
7th equal place in F3... CBR250RR, only one non 650 ahead.


Blah blah..I had you beaten.
















Until I fell off.

[scracha]

I don't know what he's on about mate... thrashing the Nc30 about a bit with a bit of normal driving I get pretty much 20km a litre. If i was driving it economically it'd get 22k

Nowt to brag about. Other Kiwibikers will testify that my 748r gets 21Km/l even when I thrash the bejezus out of it. The CBR400 runs on fresh air. When racing, Tom's VFR400 used at least twice as much gas as my CBR, I'm not joking. ChrisLost's one uses so much gogo juice that it spits it out the exhaust.



This is the 97/98 octane stuff.
I'm a Scotsman so it's el cheapo green gogo juice for moi. If gogo juice is the main concern then I'd imagine the SV650 twin is a better buy.

Oh...ZXR400....based on the couple I've had a go on they've got the fastest motor but they don't seem so well put together.

VFR400...yeah....the prettiest but an urban tiger paintjob and some fireblade stile drilled fairing holes on a CBR400 also look quite cool.

[Coyote]

I think everyone here will agree with me that the V4's are the most reliable. They are bomb proof. It may be a 90's machine adn getting old but they go forever. They have gear driven cams so it's 100% reliability in that respect, with the added cool sound you get. The wheels will fall off before the motor is done for... this is what these bikes are known for.

Yep. Everything else is falling apart on my bike. But the motor is sweet.

No older bike is truly reliable. However, I'm likely to have just got a lemon. The V4's are great.

[samgab]

There are some great bikes there to be sure. We were looking at some of them for me recently, but we ended up buying an '88 Honda Bros. (NT400) Yes, I know, it's a retarded name for a m/cycle, like parents naming their kid Dudley or something!

Anyway, after spending the weekend working on it, hubby reckons it's the best $2500 we could ever spend on a bike. (This includes the new tyres we put on). He came back from a test ride last night grinning from ear to ear (and he normally rides a 748!) saying that it is a really good little hoon bike. For an unfaired bike it looks pretty cool, and after the pipe mods he's just finished, it now actually sounds like a proper v-twin and has better mid-range torque (well, that's what he tells me at least :laugh:) It's a really confidence-inspiring bike for me to ride and a great step up for me from my gpz250. I :love: it! It's very forgiving too.

I don't think there are too many around, but they do come in a 650 version too.

Good luck finding your next dream bike :)

Cheers for the feedback. Now the "Bros" is certainly outside the norm, and something I hadn't considered, nor even heard of, if I'm honest...
I was surprised to see it has the mono swingarm -- that's pretty cool. It must surely have been among the earliest road bikes with the ELF style mono swingarm?

[samgab]

Yep. Everything else is falling apart on my bike. But the motor is sweet.

No older bike is truly reliable. However, I'm likely to have just got a lemon. The V4's are great.

Wow, a treadplate muffler, really? But the standard stainless steel one looks hawt!

[Coyote]

Wow, a treadplate muffler, really? But the standard stainless steel one looks hawt!
They do. But I was just having a bit of fun at metalwork class :laugh:

I've still got my Zorsts muffler with several dents in it (thanks to a prick backing into the bike) and the stock one which doesn't fit for some reason.

Nothing on that bike hasn't been fiddled around with now. I did the paint last month myself. Just finished making a wiring loom for the lights today. Tomorrow, buying an installing an air horn. Hopefully get it's warrant after months of waiting.

[Dargor]

Weeeeeeeell, seeing as you asked; and just for the sake of it:

http://tinyurl.com/7ebgs4

Same sort of thing as before.
It's harder with older bikes, because different websites show differing specs, and there are different models for different markets all here in NZ.
I have to assume that they're Jap imports available here in NZ, in which case they were restricted to 59HP up to '92, then restricted to 53HP from '93 onwards (Japan 400cc power restrictions). Dumb.
Anyway, take any specs in there with a grain of salt, as they could well be wrong, such as the weight for the VFR... They were quite different weights, depending on which market they were for, or which website you read. Also different power ratings etc.
Although now, about 15-19 years later, I doubt that any will be making their original power output anyway. I don't care, they're all more powerful than an FXR150!

And yes, again; I know that specs on paper are almost meaningless.

In that comparison is the "NM" "nanometers of torque". If so shouldn't the v4's have bigger numbers for that than the IL4's.

[samgab]

In that comparison is the "NM" "nanometers of torque". If so shouldn't the v4's have bigger numbers for that than the IL4's.

Figures might not be accurate... I just went with what I found on the internets... If anyone has a correction to the figures I'll fix them.

[MsKABC]

Cheers for the feedback. Now the "Bros" is certainly outside the norm, and something I hadn't considered, nor even heard of, if I'm honest...
I was surprised to see it has the mono swingarm -- that's pretty cool. It must surely have been among the earliest road bikes with the ELF style mono swingarm?


I hadn't heard of them before we found mine either ;) Apparently they are really popular in the UK and US (where they are branded as the "Hawk GT"). They were among the first production bike to have the single-sided swingarm (I think). The wheels are pretty cool too :) Hubby has just finished mods on the pipe and now it sounds awesome, you'd never think it was a widdle 400 :love: It certainly is a very modern looking bike for its age.

[racefactory]

Nowt to brag about. Other Kiwibikers will testify that my 748r gets 21Km/l even when I thrash the bejezus out of it. The CBR400 runs on fresh air. When racing, Tom's VFR400 used at least twice as much gas as my CBR, I'm not joking. ChrisLost's one uses so much gogo juice that it spits it out the exhaust.


I'm a Scotsman so it's el cheapo green gogo juice for moi. If gogo juice is the main concern then I'd imagine the SV650 twin is a better buy.


Ok... Chris's bike runs on 3 cylinders... think he told me it hasnt had a carb balance in yonks either... it's got different exhaust probably isnt rejetted for it because of damn difficult V4's, so it could be running really rich.

The answer probably lies in unbalanced carbs and the fact that they are so fucking hard to do on these V4's.

But above all... race bikes? god know's what they've been through, it's just not the same as a stock road nc30 with balanced carbs. I've had 3 of them and they've all been on 20km a litre.

Just don't think that a different engine, same displacement can suck that much more... something is just not right clearly.

Interesting though!

[vtec]

Several things,

If my VFR does get 20km/l I will be pretty happy, most motorbikes seem to get around this figure, even my CBR250RR got 20km/l. Don't think that a CBR400RR has much of a chance of doing any better, there's no reason for it to do so.

Also, I don't see why the V4 should get better torque, only real difference to the IL4 will be the way the power pulses. Some do say it gets better power down low, but the torque figure is merely the maximum torque which could well be at different points in the rev range and still end up with the same max power and max torque figures.

Totally agree on the "urban jungle" paintjob comment, I feel a bit ricey riding it. But hey, it's got plenty of poke to back up the venomous looking paintjob.

Also Samgab, the SV650 will be equally suitable a step up from the FXR150 as the 400's are. In fact for your purposes I would really advise you to get an SV650. Easy torque, very well behaved, nimble, fast, fuel efficient, reliable, and you get a really good resale because they are so in demand for both road and race purposes.

To me the VFR400R does feel like a very lazy engine, I think changing to a smaller front sprocket may aid my cause. 100kph in first gear is too fast... and yet slow. Still it easily reaches it's speed limiter, did it again tonight.

Coyote, you going to race that VFR now that you've got it sorted?

Freer flowing exhaust will mean that it's running lean... more air flow for the fuel. Which would give it more power, but could be harmful to the engine. Also, carb balance isn't required for racing, at full throttle all the carbs are fully open even if your balance is noticeably out. May only run on 3 at low revs but be fine at high revs, could mean that the low rev jet is blocked but will still deliver power in that cylinder at maximum throttle. Does sound like it could do with some work though. Think I might just keep my one standard for now and see how I get on.

[samgab]

Several things,

If my VFR does get 20km/l I will be pretty happy, most motorbikes seem to get around this figure, even my CBR250RR got 20km/l. Don't think that a CBR400RR has much of a chance of doing any better, there's no reason for it to do so.

Also, I don't see why the V4 should get better torque, only real difference to the IL4 will be the way the power pulses. Some do say it gets better power down low, but the torque figure is merely the maximum torque which could well be at different points in the rev range and still end up with the same max power and max torque figures.

Totally agree on the "urban jungle" paintjob comment, I feel a bit ricey riding it. But hey, it's got plenty of poke to back up the venomous looking paintjob.

Also Samgab, the SV650 will be equally suitable a step up from the FXR150 as the 400's are. In fact for your purposes I would really advise you to get an SV650. Easy torque, very well behaved, nimble, fast, fuel efficient, reliable, and you get a really good resale because they are so in demand for both road and race purposes.

To me the VFR400R does feel like a very lazy engine, I think changing to a smaller front sprocket may aid my cause. 100kph in first gear is too fast... and yet slow. Still it easily reaches it's speed limiter, did it again tonight.

Coyote, you going to race that VFR now that you've got it sorted?

Freer flowing exhaust will mean that it's running lean... more air flow for the fuel. Which would give it more power, but could be harmful to the engine. Also, carb balance isn't required for racing, at full throttle all the carbs are fully open even if your balance is noticeably out. May only run on 3 at low revs but be fine at high revs, could mean that the low rev jet is blocked but will still deliver power in that cylinder at maximum throttle. Does sound like it could do with some work though. Think I might just keep my one standard for now and see how I get on.

Hey, cheers for that info.

The SV650 is definitely on my test ride list. It's been on and off and on again the list. It never much appealed to me for some inexplicable reason, but so many people speak so well of it, that I'd be an idiot not to at least take one for a ride and see what it's like, closer to purchase time.
I know it's light for a 650, and everyone says it's easy to ride, fun and handles well, so I'll give it a go for sure.

The way things are looking now, it'll be a toss up between the NC30 and the older tube framed SV650.

I'd prefer something fuel injected but I guess that'll be the next step after whatever I end up getting next...

I'm already getting sick of waiting, I think I'll just have to go and do the street talk riding course so I cut the time down to 3 Months rather than 6!

[quickbuck]

Several things,

If my VFR does get 20km/l I will be pretty happy, most motorbikes seem to get around this figure, even my CBR250RR got 20km/l. Don't think that a CBR400RR has much of a chance of doing any better, there's no reason for it to do so.
.
Okay, it ,may be that the particular VFR's I have had anything to do with had a lovely exhaust note, and the owners just loved listening to it.... This could increase fuel consumption like you won't believe....
Also larger lads on them.... and I'm not going to comment on their tiding abilities.....

It can all add up to some dodgy fuel figures.
All I know is I had to thrash my 87 CBR400 before it would drink anything like what the VFR's frequently did.... Well I think I made it drink 12 litres in 150km at Manfeild once...
But it was always good for 250k + from the same 12 litres.

Ad Big Dave said, there can be between 50 and 80 km difference on tank range between bike testers... so at the end of the day it is up to the rider.
I do feel the VFR's are likely to burn more fuel though.
Could well be the fact carbs are a pain to balance.

[scracha]

Don't think that a CBR400RR has much of a chance of doing any better, there's no reason for it to do so.


Honestly, they run on fresh air. Dunno how they do it. I go to race weekends and if I fill the tank up on the first practise I rarely have to refill.

If ChrisLost's bike runs on 3 cylinders then I'm an Englishman.

VFR, better midrange but not got the top end of the inline 4's.

[Fatjim]

You're not smart enough to be an englishman.

[scracha]

You're not smart enough to be an englishman.

I'm smart enough to be fucking an Englishwoman. :baby:

[carver]

the fzr is shit

[vifferman]

The SV650 is definitely on my test ride list. It's been on and off and on again the list. It never much appealed to me for some inexplicable reason, but so many people speak so well of it, that I'd be an idiot not to at least take one for a ride and see what it's like, closer to purchase time.
It'd be a better buy from the point of view of being easier to get parts for, and easier to work on.
I test-rode one once, almost solely because people raved about it, and I didn't like it at all - sounded and performed too much like a lawnmower engine in comparison to the VFR750 I'd previously owned. Ended up buying a VTR1000 instead.

[samgab]

I may be interested in buying/swapping whenever suites you. Its a black black, has a fair bit of scratches down one side as I got a little too keen on the gravel, runs mint although she needs a few revs when cold. Has current rego, new front and rear discs and pads. Wof expired last month and have not gotten another yet as needs new tires, they are not worn just have some slight sidewall cracks. Send me a message and we will talk more.

Dave, post a message if you're keen on the FXR150... I'm thinking of trading it in on a CBR250 or something, and possibly as soon as tomorrow, so if you get this message and you're keen, drop a reply ASAP!
Cheers.

[racefactory]

Several things,


Also, I don't see why the V4 should get better torque, only real difference to the IL4 will be the way the power pulses. Some do say it gets better power down low, but the torque figure is merely the maximum torque which could well be at different points in the rev range and still end up with the same max power and max torque figures.



This is right, it doesn't produce any more torque at all it is just more useable torque down in the low and mid revs.

Still has the same japanese 40nm torque like all of them produce.

On another note, if you put a free flow exhaust on a 89 model nc30 which is the one which has the different jetting, then it can run dangerously lean.

[samgab]

Check out the HUGE lead in the polls for the Honda V4!

That's amazing.

There are quite a few votes for the Kwakka ZXR400 too, but they're very hard to find, very rare in street trim. But still dwarfed in comparison to the VFR.

[scracha]

In case anyone cares, I think the honda hawk in the USA was the 650 one (as opposed to the 400 bros).

[vifferman]

In case anyone cares, I think the honda hawk in the USA was the 650 one (as opposed to the 400 bros).
True dat. :yes:
In case anyone cares, the "Superhawk" (VTR1000) was largely developed in Mrka as a replacement for the Hawk, and to compete head on with the Ducati 900 SS.

[samgab]

True dat. :yes:
In case anyone cares, the "Superhawk" (VTR1000) was largely developed in Mrka as a replacement for the Hawk, and to compete head on with the Ducati 900 SS.

Interesting.
In case anyone cares, the Honda HawkGT NT650 was designed by Toshiaki Kishi and was the second Honda with Pro-Arm having the model designation RC31 coming immediately after the RC30.

[svr]

Best 400cc and below bike...

CBR250RR for the win haha.
Check these results. I've posted them far too many times. Just makes me laugh.
http://www.silver-bullet.co.nz/eventresults.php?eventid=5510


Makes me smile too :first:

I've ridden most of those old 400s. Get an old sv. Trust me.

[vtec]

Interesting.
In case anyone cares, the Honda HawkGT NT650 was designed by Toshiaki Kishi and was the second Honda with Pro-Arm having the model designation RC31 coming immediately after the RC30.

Hmmm, wonder if the RC31 handles aswell as the rest of the sporty Honda's from that era, if so, would be a great bike for F3/Pro twin, and nobody rides them.

[samgab]

Makes me smile too :first:

I've ridden most of those old 400s. Get an old sv. Trust me.

I just found out last night that there used to be an SV400. One of my workmates has one.

[samgab]

Hmmm, wonder if the RC31 handles aswell as the rest of the sporty Honda's from that era, if so, would be a great bike for F3/Pro twin, and nobody rides them.

It was amazingly ahead of it's time, in terms of chassis design and geometry, from what I've read about it. There were a whole bunch of bikes that came out later, like certain Triumphs and and 2003+ SV650's which had almost identical chassis design apparently.

[dave222]

Dave, post a message if you're keen on the FXR150... I'm thinking of trading it in on a CBR250 or something, and possibly as soon as tomorrow, so if you get this message and you're keen, drop a reply ASAP!
Cheers.

I can not purchase it right now, thought you were selling when getting full? I will see what i can do.

Cheers.

[svr]

Hmmm, wonder if the RC31 handles aswell as the rest of the sporty Honda's from that era, if so, would be a great bike for F3/Pro twin, and nobody rides them.

The US `Hawk' 650 was chain drive, the Euro a Shaftie `Bros', I think. I rode a Hawk in the states in 90 when they came out. About 45 hp, and slow as...

[SPman]

FZR400SP - if you can find one.

[ecko_nzed]

I imported a "euro spec" GSX-R400 into NZ back in 90's, being a fullpower model it was quick enough, but the front end of it never felt quite right it didn't inspire confidence when cornering. At that time I rode mates CBR's, FZR's and ZXR's to compare and we all agreed that the ZXR was the best handling one of the lot (L model, K model not so much) fast forward to early 2008, and I decided to get back on a bike again. I managed to pick up a very tatty RVF400......OMG! it freakin rules, it feels sooo much more planted on the road and is very easy to ride. I'm 6 feet tall and about 92 kg, but it is more comfortable than my old GSX-R (even with my old bones ;)) If you could pick up a tidy RVF it would be a good investment as they seem to hold there value better than the others.

[Harvd]

MMMMMM VFR400. gotta be my nxt bike up! how can you not like the v4? apart from the apparent need for sneaky little people hands... but who cares because MY one WILL have perfect carbs and never need sneaky little hands to fiddle "in there":whistle:


oh yes my one will also be FREEEE


one day maybe

[Monty69]

Yeah my mates got a VFR400R nc30, they look the best simply because of that 18inch single sided rear wheel. They are very agile bikes and the sound is unmatched, its V4 is rumbly and deep like a twin but howls like a 4 as the revs build. But it sounds like neither... VFRs dont make more HP than the others but do make more torque. Apart form the REG/REC electrical issues, they are mechanically bullet proof (as hondas are) so i think the VFR/RVF win by quite a bit. Although i think when it comes to my money in a few weeks time ill be going for the CBR400RR. Just coz i love cbrs.

[ducatilover]

The US `Hawk' 650 was chain drive, the Euro a Shaftie `Bros', I think. I rode a Hawk in the states in 90 when they came out. About 45 hp, and slow as...

hawk gt, nt400/650 and bros are the same. shaftie was the revere/ntv