Warning to newbies and others.

[beyond]

Went for a quick spin today to get some more material together for my comedy video which should be up later this evening on youtube under beyondkiwi. It will be the only video up since recent events. It's taking a while to upload at higher res being a 450meg file which youtube will mutilate as normal.

BUT: I left home around mid morning and it was cooler and a nice breeze blowing. At this point you could cross the shiny tar patches with no problem at all.

This time of the year as the heat builds up on the roads those shiny tar patches can change there consistency in under an hour and quicker in the right conditions. Corners that were safe to take at speed had the front wheel pushing out within minutes from taking them earlier.

I'm aware and used to this change but if this is your first summer out then take extra care. In the heat of the day or if there is no breeze or if a corner is sheltered, then avoid those shiny patches like they are ice.

Take heed of this advice and you will be here to ride come winter :)

[Ixion]

I'll second that. Avoid those shiny glistening patches like death, because that is what they are. Death.

Slow down and steer round them . If you must cross them do so upright and do not trust your tyres for a few miles afterward.

(They are lethal not only to bikes. I knew someone was killed in his car when it slid on a melt patch - into the path of an oncoming truck. And he was a very careful safe driver. And not speeding according to the cops)

[toycollector10]

Ditto wet or moist clay that has been washed down onto the road after rain. Sound familiar to you beyond?

[beyond]

Ditto wet or moist clay that has been washed down onto the road after rain. Sound familiar to you beyond?


Yeah. love wet clay....great for practicing drifting :)

[Ixion]

I think I should also mention the most dangerous situation of all.

The slipperyness is due to oils melted out of the tar by the heat and settling on the top .Normally the oil will settle back into the tar and soldify overnight.

If there occurs a longish stretch of hot days and warm nights the melted tar may not soldify overnight. Which is bad. Worse is if there then comes a cooler morning. In that case a fine condensation of water will settle on the oily film. That makes it more slippery than ever, and also makes it harder to see, beccause the damp surface does not gleam. Be very very careful if riding early after such a stretch of hot days and warm nights. Be most exceeding careful .Slow down. Slower. Slower still. That stuff is as slippery and treacherous as anything I know.

[beyond]

I think I should also mention the most dangerous situation of all.

The slipperyness is due to oils melted out of the tar by the heat and settling on the top .Normally the oil will settle back into the tar and soldify overnight.

If there occurs a longish stretch of hot days and warm nights the melted tar may not soldify overnight. Which is bad. Worse is if there then comes a cooler morning. In that case a fine condensation of water will settle on the oily film. That makes it more slippery than ever, and also makes it harder to see, beccause the damp surface does not gleam. Be very very careful if riding early after such a stretch of hot days and warm nights. Be most exceeding careful .Slow down. Slower. Slower still. That stuff is as slippery and treacherous as anything I know.

Good point Ixion....water and tar melt are not a palatable brew for motorcyclists :(

[TOTO]

good reminder for summer.

[tonyg26]

also for people in hamilton, be careful on terapa strait on rounabouts on a saturday, because on friday night the boyracers pour diesel all around it so they can slide ect, its a cunt to get diesel out of ur tyre makes it slipery as hell, and hitting dieseled rounabouts with the gas on ur bike and you will be fucked, this has hapend a few times already to some people!

[scumdog]

good reminder for summer.

'Summer ice' it's called...

[trumpy]

++1 on the wet tar thing.
Be also aware that sometimes the top surface doesn't look too bad (ie still has coarse chip showing) but that surface can move quite considerably under pressure from your bike. Failure to pay enough attention to this (plus reduced capacity to react due to dehydration - my bad) cost me a slide down the tarmac a year ago. Speed wasn't the issue, I was doing less than 70kph in a corner i would normally take at about 90kph, my failure, for a number of reasons, to read the road surface properly was my undoing.
It took almost as long to clean the tar off the bike, and my leathers, as it did to repair it, in fact I still have some tar on the inside of my boots.
One day (maybe) we will be able, or more correctly willing, to build roads that don't melt in 20 degs of ambient temperature...until then, go gently people.

[fliplid]

I've seen some of these roading firms spend more time an effort laying carparks at shopping centres than highways.

[MSTRS]

I've seen some of these roading firms spend more time an effort laying carparks at shopping centres than highways.

Because the centre owners are paying for it, and they do not want to be paying for repairs all the time. Unlike the prats who spend OUR money....

[retro asian]

Cheers for the heads up!

[Gummie]

When Most people are back at work some of us are still riding the highways.
And there was a few i got to nod at.(Happy riding Guys'n'Girls)

Thanks for the heads up us noobs need a reminder now and then, I came across a few of those yesterday:argh:, luckily avoided them.

[The Pastor]

take care when it rains for the first time in a while, esp if its just light rain - mixes with the oils on the roads and makes the road very slippery, but heavy rain washes it away after a few mins.

[madbikeboy]

I'll second that. Avoid those shiny glistening patches like death, because that is what they are. Death.

Slow down and steer round them . If you must cross them do so upright and do not trust your tyres for a few miles afterward.

(They are lethal not only to bikes. I knew someone was killed in his car when it slid on a melt patch - into the path of an oncoming truck. And he was a very careful safe driver. And not speeding according to the cops)

In 2003, Joseba Beloki of the Spanish ONCE (pronouced On-Say) crashed spectularly during a difficult descent of the Tour de France. His rear wheel slid on a melting tar, and he slid, gripped, highsided, and so ended his professional cycling career (despite attempting to comeback). Why it is interesting is you can see the bike highside (like slow motion), and you can watch his pelvis break as he hits the road. Lance Armstrong, who had been riding beside him, famously rode into the field ahead, and then jumped a ditch to get back in the race. Meanwhile, Beloki is on the ground screaming in pain.

I've respected tar snakes ever since...

[cave weta]

Big green BLINGS for you guys:innocent::innocent:

[enigma51]

In 2003, Joseba Beloki of the Spanish ONCE (pronouced On-Say) crashed spectularly during a difficult descent of the Tour de France. His rear wheel slid on a melting tar, and he slid, gripped, highsided, and so ended his professional cycling career (despite attempting to comeback). Why it is interesting is you can see the bike highside (like slow motion), and you can watch his pelvis break as he hits the road. Lance Armstrong, who had been riding beside him, famously rode into the field ahead, and then jumped a ditch to get back in the race. Meanwhile, Beloki is on the ground screaming in pain.

I've respected tar snakes ever since...

I remember than race

here is the vid

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[BMWST?]

so after the summer is over is the danger reduced...MAYBE.The patches that melt and set, melt and set become exceedingly smooth which are more slippery than the surroundin road when wet...so if you know a stretch of road that has a melt patch in summer,it is more than likely a slippery patch in wet conditons in winter time...so when riding in winter keep an eye out for black shiny patches on the road,and take Ixions previous advice on how to deal with em....

[Blackshear]

The black ice strips, I avoid like the midnight Queen street honies.
They're bad in summer, but fuck mate, merely looking at them in the wet results in a fall. Serious, they're THAT slippery.

[AD345]

Just back from a blip around Coromandel today and Highway 25A from Hikuai to Kopu has AT LEAST 4 kms of continuous tar bleed at the Kopu end (I was heading in towards Kopu), there's a thin dry line down the middle of the lane but ze corners they are interesting.

As a side note I also rode the Tapu to Coroglen goat track - by mistake (its just been one of those days, was fun though - in a nervewracking 210% concentration kinda way)

[Elysium]

Don't know what the desert road is like at the moment but over a month ago when I was riding it the amount of bald and tar patches was very bad. Also some few idiot truck drivers who engine braked to hard and causing hunks of road to be dug up.

[Usarka]

I was going to make a sarcastic comment but it'd be over the heads of those that count.

Great post - take note noobies and people like me who haven't been for a decent fang for a whiles.

PS Looking forward to the vid!


Cheers for the heads up!

That my old-skool asian friend is the point :D

[Stickchick]

Don't know what the desert road is like at the moment but over a month ago when I was riding it the amount of bald and tar patches was very bad. Also some few idiot truck drivers who engine braked to hard and causing hunks of road to be dug up.

I rode the Desert Road during the Christmas break and it is pretty slippery, mind you I ride like a Nana so that may have been my issue.

However what an interesting sound your tyres make while riding a road like that. Anyone know how to get the tar and stones off the underside of my bike?

[Pussy]

Anyone know how to get the tar and stones off the underside of my bike?
Kerosene is your friend, Stickchick. It melts/disolves tar

[Grahameeboy]

'Summer ice' it's called...

Or "Black Ice"...

[howdamnhard]

take care when it rains for the first time in a while, esp if its just light rain - mixes with the oils on the roads and makes the road very slippery, but heavy rain washes it away after a few mins.

Yes that resulted in my first bin,eventhough I knew it was going to be slipperry and took it especially slow.

[scumdog]

Or "Black Ice"...

Black ice is what we get down here in winter when the rain falls - and then freezes.

[Grahameeboy]

Black ice is what we get down here in winter when the rain falls - and then freezes.

You do realise that it is not the ice that is black...heads up it is clear ice so it looks black as the road is black....oh Scummy...next you will be saying that the rain is black.......te he

[toycollector10]

Anywhere that you have long dry spells, such as we have been having here in Christchurch, can be a problem once you get a shower or two going through. Especially in the city environs where traffic is always heavy.

All the accumulated microscopic pieces of worn tyres and soot from diesel exhausts turns into a thin slippery paste.

Until it rains hard and long and washes the crap into the gutters it's a problem, especially on white road markings and metal grates and things like that. You can actually see it if you look for it.

[madbikeboy]

Rode Ginga's racetrack to Wellsford yesterday. Was as slippery as a newly elected MP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuISQ71-uh8&feature=related

[beyond]

Kerosene is your friend, Stickchick. It melts/disolves tar

In the absence of Kerosene, standard old butter on a rag works well too :)

[flyingcr250]

also for people in hamilton, be careful on terapa strait on rounabouts on a saturday, because on friday night the boyracers pour diesel all around it so they can slide ect, its a cunt to get diesel out of ur tyre makes it slipery as hell, and hitting dieseled rounabouts with the gas on ur bike and you will be fucked, this has hapend a few times already to some people!


i hit one of those diesel roundabouts (the one outside porter hire) in my ute the other week, and went sideways, my mx bike almost came off the back.
after a frw blue face swear words i carried on, but the diesel was still on my tires for a few k's. bad enough in a ute never mind on a bike. scary shit. :gob:

[Elysium]

i hit one of those diesel roundabouts (the one outside porter hire) in my ute the other week, and went sideways, my mx bike almost came off the back.
after a frw blue face swear words i carried on, but the diesel was still on my tires for a few k's. bad enough in a ute never mind on a bike. scary shit. :gob:

Seriously some of you guys should lie in wait and ambush these boy rice racer idiots when they go to pour diesel there.

[flyingcr250]

Seriously some of you guys should lie in wait and ambush these boy rice racer idiots when they go to pour diesel there.

its a shame the police will see it as you assaulting them, and not as you potentially saving the life of an innocent biker. or other road user for that matter

[Usarka]

its a shame the police will see it as you assaulting them, and not as you potentially saving the life of an innocent biker. or other road user for that matter

Who said anything about smashing their kneecaps with crowbars and torching their cars?

[flyingcr250]

Who said anything about smashing their kneecaps with crowbars and torching their cars?

aaahhhh, me? somehow i dont think catching them on camera is good enough.

[slofox]

Who said anything about smashing their kneecaps with crowbars and torching their cars?

Now THAT'S a good idea...why didn't I think of that?

Back on the topic of tar snakes, highway 39, especially Ngaruawahia to Whatawhata, is covered in the damn things just now...
Since I ride earlyish, they seem not too bad. I have yet to find condensation on them, but having re-read this whole thread, perhaps I will be even more careful than usual...

[jrandom]

Back on the topic of tar snakes, highway 39, especially Ngaruawahia to Whatawhata, is covered in the damn things just now...

That's always been a bad road for the tar snakes.

Try riding it in the rain on an R1 wearing Supercorsas.

:crazy:

[lankyman]

also for people in hamilton, be careful on terapa strait on rounabouts on a saturday, because on friday night the boyracers pour diesel all around it so they can slide ect, its a cunt to get diesel out of ur tyre makes it slipery as hell, and hitting dieseled rounabouts with the gas on ur bike and you will be fucked, this has hapend a few times already to some people!

Little faggots should drive real cars that don't need diesel to get a wheel going

[slofox]

That's always been a bad road for the tar snakes.
:crazy:

I reckon the buggers breed in the river valley myself........

[twistemotion]

...One day (maybe) we will be able, or more correctly willing, to build roads that don't melt in 20 degs of ambient temperature...until then, go gently people.
Good thread. The tar consistency overseas is much better and definitely don't melt at 20, not even 30 degrees ambient. In NZ they insist on using tar that melts at too low a temperature, making at really dangerous. I think it *may* be because it's easier to work with in the cold months when doing road work. But hey, we don't need to look at road surfaces, we all know it's speed that kills - easy target with lots of revenue. I bet the Transport Minister doesn't even know what tar snakes or tar bleed is.

We have to ride carefully in winter because on top of all the other hazards, there's ice, now in summer it's tar snakes (dry and wet). :angry:
Maybe some roading guys on this forum can comment on the tar quality.

[slofox]

Another hazard encountered recently - a winter problem making itself known in summer...
Ride round Kawhia Harbour and then over the hill to Waitomo Caves. The hill road has lots of signs that say "ICE - GRIT"...
I suppose the road freezes in winter. And they spread little stones all over it to help with grip on the ice. And they leave all those stones on the road all year round...so in summer its like riding on little ball bearings...thanks boys, that realllly helps...

[Drogen Omen]

So not only do you want to avoid those black spots when its hot but also when its freezing cold...

That means there is not much chance for riding with New Zealands Weather...

I wonder why the quality of Tar in New Zealand is so shit... there are other countries in the world that get hotter and they dont seem to have this meltin tar crap... seems ours have a very low melting point...

One other thing is our roads are so uneven... for most of our paved roads you almost need a dirt bike or 4x4 to ride/drive down them... Jackson street in petone is a good example... my shocks get a real good work out riding down that street and its only at 50km's can you imagin if it was a 100KM's area... you would need a kidney belt from all the jaring... hahahah

[twistemotion]

Here's (http://www.techlink.org.nz/Case-studies/Technological-practice/Electronics/the-water-cutter/) an Ultra High Pressure (UHP) water cutter that Fulton Hogan developed to remove "Bitumen Flushing" which seems to be the official term for tar bleed. Looks really well thought out, and sounds like it works relatively quickly too. Not much use to us, but to the Regional Councils and other Roading Authorities.

[slofox]

Here's (http://www.techlink.org.nz/Case-studies/Technological-practice/Electronics/the-water-cutter/) an Ultra High Pressure (UHP) water cutter that Fulton Hogan developed to remove "Bitumen Flushing" which seems to be the official term for tar bleed. Looks really well thought out, and sounds like it works relatively quickly too. Not much use to us, but to the Regional Councils and other Roading Authorities.

NZ could use a gazillion of those then......

[gijoe1313]

Ayup ditto for all that good advice, I just got back from SH22 not too long ago, at the end, coming around a 35kph corner, whole lane is melted and I end up scooting across into the other lane! :gob:

Felt the tyres sliding across and sticky clenchy bum moment as I managed to steer the lil'ol'hornet back into the right lane and keep it all upright! I dunno what I did right, but everything I did kept it upright! :sweatdrop :sick:

So, ayup, gotta watch out for those dreaded pools of dinosaur goop!

[Ixion]

Upper end of 22 yesterday was a patchwork of melt. I steered a meandering course through some of it, and for the bad parts took to the verge or the narrow strip by the white line. How come the verge, the tarseal bit between the left hand white line and the grass never melts ?

Whoever was responsible for having all the back roads sealed has a LOT to answer for. And, I reckon , a good deal of blood on their hands. Those roads were much safer when they were gravel. I reckon they should be put back to gravel.

[martybabe]

Just come back from visiting friends along Surf highway Taranaki, melted tar in the wheel tracks all the way and some of the bends were completely devoid of any chip at all. It was reminiscent of of a few days I spent on a purpose built skid pan.

Bloody lethal and a bloody disgrace, some lovely bends out that way normally, just blinking deathtraps now. I saw three bikers take to the verge as Ixion described.

[racerhead]

Just come back from visiting friends along Surf highway Taranaki, melted tar in the wheel tracks all the way and some of the bends were completely devoid of any chip at all. It was reminiscent of of a few days I spent on a purpose built skid pan.

Bloody lethal and a bloody disgrace, some lovely bends out that way normally, just blinking deathtraps now. I saw three bikers take to the verge as Ixion described.

Travelled that road myself today and it was pretty bad in some places alright.
At one point I was riding in the concrete gully beside the road because I was sick of pickin chips out of my fairing and anywhere else they stuck. Was even on the grass at one point but got pretty sideways so kept to the solid stuff after that

[slofox]

How come the verge, the tarseal bit between the left hand white line and the grass never melts ?

This suggests that wheels driving over certain parts of the road encourage the melt to come to the surface. It is always the wheel tracks that are worst. Low traffic areas like you mention, Ixion, don't seem to have the same degree of problem.
Which makes me wonder just how much the NZ penchant for Urban Tractors (SUV's) adds to the problem. If traffic does increase the surfacing of melt then it would follow that heavier vehicles would cause more trouble than lighter vehicles. SUV's have great fat sodding tyres on them and weigh tonnes so they are probably one of the more blameworthy vehicles. Ban the buggers I say...:ar15:(just one of my fav hates....) :violin:

[Ixion]

I suspect there is something in the weight thing. Though great big tyres on SUVs should make it better not worse, less weight per square inch. I don't understand though how weight can make the tar melt? Is it some sort of "squeeze" effect, the tar is melted by the sun's heat, but the weight of traffic squeezes the fluid to the surface?

[slofox]

I suspect there is something in the weight thing. Though great big tyres on SUVs should make it better not worse, less weight per square inch. I don't understand though how weight can make the tar melt? Is it some sort of "squeeze" effect, the tar is melted by the sun's heat, but the weight of traffic squeezes the fluid to the surface?

That's what I was thinking. There is no doubt that the wheel tracks are worst, so wheels passing over have some obvious effect...whatever it is...personally I blame SUV's for everything...

[twistemotion]

I suspect there is something in the weight thing. Though great big tyres on SUVs should make it better not worse, less weight per square inch.
Exactly. The average SUV weighs around 1800kg. That makes it 450kg per tyre, assuming weight is evenly distributed front and rear. Now, I would guess the contact patch of a bike is about 1/3 that of an SUV's. 1/3 of 450KG is 150kg. If a bike weighs 300kg including rider (conservative), then it means that each tyre puts 150kg of pressure on the contact patch, equal to that of the SUV. A heavier bike will pronounce the effect dramatically.

In saying that, I think trucks have a much bigger impact than any other vehicles. Say the trailer weighs in at 20 tonnes, which is 20000kg, divided by 20 tyres (12 on the trailer, 8 on the back of the tractor unit), it is 1000kg per tyre, and the contact patch isn't much bigger than that of an SUV.