Good rant by Mitch in Kiwi Rider mag

[White trash]

Letter of the month! Wooohoooo, well done Mitch.

Good comments although I think poor old Ross may have over vented in his response.

Short and to the point please, Ross! I don't really want to see pics of the crowd, pissed yobos or classic race bikes sitting on a grid. Some in focus racing shots would have been awesome too.

Edit:" And another thing, Ross. Who proof reads your responses? You can't state "in closing", then ramble on for half a column to chuck another "in closing" at the end. That aint cool!

[jrandom]

Letter of the month! Wooohoooo, well done Mitch.

Well, like, you COULD have been so kind as to transcribe it for us so that we don't have to buy the magazine, which we've already established is far too infested with all that filthy dirtbike-related nonsense.

I mean, hell, it's not like you have any real work to do, and the typing skills you develop will come in handy if you ever need to find a job as a legal secretary.

[White trash]

Well, like, you COULD have been so kind as to transcribe it for us so that we don't have to buy the magazine, which we've already established is far too infested with all that filthy dirtbike-related nonsense.



Fuck off! The letter takes up a third of the page and the response! Well that takes up the other two thirds.

I think he may have taken it as a personal attack or summit. :spudwhat:

[Blakamin]

Well, like, you COULD have been so kind as to transcribe it for us so that we don't have to buy the magazine, which we've already established is far too infested with all that filthy dirtbike-related nonsense.


what he said!!!

[jrandom]

Fuck off! The letter takes up a third of the page and the response! Well that takes up the other two thirds.

But the image of you sitting behind the counter all morning, typing furiously, frown on brow, tongue poking out with the effort of concentration, was just *too* good.


I think he may have taken it as a personal attack or summit. :spudwhat:

Ooooh, goody, I'm gonna go read it then.

[Biff]

But the image of you sitting behind the counter all morning, typing furiously, frown on brow, tongue poking out with the effort of concentration, was just *too* good..

Yeah - think of the excercise! Your finger muscles will be the envy of every steroid filled fuckwit in the land, and the ladies will love ya!

If all else fails - scan it ya tease :yeah:

[White trash]

If all else fails - scan it ya tease :yeah:


Ummmm, I think that's against copy write (right) laws. Maybe. Dunno. Apart from that, they neglected in my trailer park upbringing to teach me of scanners and how to actually use them.

[Big Dave]

Ummmm, I think that's against copy write (right) laws. Maybe. Dunno.

Oscar, Baylis and - more importantly - I, will be around and pound you of you do!

Vege could be lurking somewhere too. Actually I don't think anyone would worry. not for me to say, but, servants of the people and all that, and no such thing as bad advertising etc.
or
$8.95 at your news stand :yeah:

bd

[White trash]

or
$8.95 at your news stand :yeah:

bd

I didn't want to say that as I'm an "opposition" supporter but it must be said, it's a good issue with some clever advertising.

Can someone ask Baylis how come there's photos of "Racing" Dave leaning a RoadKill further than Chris leaning an XB12R :Pokey:


Whoops! I guess I just did. :wari:

[chris]

I didn't want to say that as I'm an "opposition" supporter but it must be said, it's a good issue with some clever advertising.

Can someone ask Baylis how come there's photos of "Racing" Dave leaning a RoadKill further than Chris leaning an XB12R :Pokey:


Whoops! I guess I just did. :wari:


Just so you know, I ain't Baylis and I am unlikely to lean anything further than CB let alone RD :niceone:

[White trash]

Just so you know, I ain't Baylis and I am unlikely to lean anything further than CB let alone RD :niceone:

Well aren't I just a heel.

What the hell is going on there? How many Chris's, Daves and so on you guy's need working there?

Got any Jimmys? No?

Got any jobs?

[chris]

What the hell is going on there? How many Chris's, Daves and so on you guy's need working there?

We have enough Chris' thanks but are short on a Busty Laroue



Got any Jimmys?

I asked Jimmy and he said no



Got any jobs?

My garden needs clearing :msn-wink:

[jrandom]

Vege could be lurking somewhere too...

That's not Veggie Dave of UK stunt video fame, is it. I hope not.

Why does everyone in this industry have the same name? It is very confusing.

Did I ever tell you that Mrs. McCave
had twenty three sons and she named them all Dave?
Well, she did. And that wasn't a smart thing to do.
You see, when she wants one and calls out 'Yoo-hoo!'
'Come into the house, Dave!' She doesn't get ONE.
All twenty three Daves of hers come on the run!
This makes things quite difficult at the McCaves'
as you can imagine, with so many Daves.

[flyin]

just go to any servo that sells it and stand there lookin like a cheapass and read what you want while the attendant try's to sell you their promo chocolate bars. :shifty:

i spent a while doin this just the other day wen i got caught out in some HEAVY rain and couldnt be feck'd riding in it (cos i was jst out for a blat) so parked at bp and enjoyed a pie while reading thier mags :2thumbsup

[chris]

That's not Veggie Dave of UK stunt video fame, is it.

[/I]

Ours is spelt Vege.

[jrandom]

Ours is spelt Vege.

Oh, OK then. Worlds apart...

[chris]

Oh, OK then. Worlds apart...

Literally :cool:

[White trash]

just go to any servo that sells it and stand there lookin like a cheapass and read what you want while the attendant try's to sell you their promo chocolate bars. :shifty:

i spent a while doin this just the other day wen i got caught out in some HEAVY rain and couldnt be feck'd riding in it (cos i was jst out for a blat) so parked at bp and enjoyed a pie while reading thier mags :2thumbsup

However good an idea this sounds, it does nothing for the hard working Kiwis and imports that slave their arses off to get that magazine on the shelf each month.

If you don't like it, don't read it. If you DO like it, stop being a cheapskate and buy it.

(I am extremely lucky to subscribe to all the major worldwide mags at the shops expense)

[Motu]

My BP next door has stopped stocking KR,so has my dairy - that's the sum total of shops I frequent....gunna have to do another sub.

[NordieBoy]

Ours is spelt Vege.


Ah, so he's shorter than Veggie then...

[Blakamin]

If you don't like it, don't read it. If you DO like it, stop being a cheapskate and buy it.


I dont wanna read it... just wanna see what mitch had to say... couldn't be bothered with the rest of "Dirt Rid....oops.. "Kiwi Rider"


(I am extremely lucky to subscribe to all the major worldwide mags at the shops expense)
Now whos the cheapskate???? :apint:

[Big Dave]

I dont wanna read it... just wanna see what mitch had to say... couldn't be bothered with the rest of "Dirt Rid....oops.. "Kiwi Rider"


Know what - I had just the same opinion, more or less.
Then Vege organised a Tiger and took me on the Capital Coast Adventure Ride. Then I took one of www.coromoto.co.nz 's DR650's to the tip of the coromandel, then I hit the top of the South Island on a Tiger again and did some off road touring.
And you know what? i fewkin' loved it - there is far more to riding here than the black top mate.
Probably the best adventure riding on the planet - you just can't ignore it. It's brilliant.

Also, you want to improve your road skills and be better able to cope with the loose surfaces and washouts that so regularly present themselve whilst we're burning around on the sports bike loops - then go and chuck a leg over something with knobbys and hit the dirt for an afternoon baby - slide - who cares?

Try it - you'll like it - and it'll make you a better road rider - regardless.

bd

[SPman]

And if ya do, Vege mite come to!




sorry

[PuppetMaster]

Also, you want to improve your road skills and be better able to cope with the loose surfaces and washouts that so regularly present themselve whilst we're burning around on the sports bike loops - then go and chuck a leg over something with knobbys and hit the dirt for an afternoon baby - slide - who cares?
Try it - you'll like it - and it'll make you a better road rider - regardless.bd

Good idea.
Except you've missed the point. Riding off road bikes and reading about them are 2 different things. Id ride either, but Id rather read about road bikes.
All the same I still enjoy Kiwi-rider.

[Blakamin]

Know what - I had just the same opinion, more or less....

I rode dirt bikes for years (western victoria jumping mineshafts and shit)... will again oneday for fun somewhere...but I just dont wanna read about them... I used to have a stack of aussie DIRTbike magazine 5 feet high... from the early 80's.. when I was interested...
If that what sells, then fine... I just get sick of the same dirt bikes page after page.... issue after issue... I only flick thru the dirt bit... bores me to tears

also get sick of BMW reviews but hey, thats just me...

I cant see why, as I've said before, I should buy a mag that I only read half of...

no hard feelings... just not my thing... :apint:


[edit] to tell you the truth, I cant even watch motocross or supercross on tv any more because it seems every track is the same... boring....

[Motu]

Know what - I had just the same opinion, more or less.
Then Vege organised a Tiger and took me on the Capital Coast Adventure Ride. Then I took one of www.coromoto.co.nz 's DR650's to the tip of the coromandel, then I hit the top of the South Island on a Tiger again and did some off road touring.
And you know what? i fewkin' loved it - there is far more to riding here than the black top mate.
Probably the best adventure riding on the planet - you just can't ignore it. It's brilliant.

Also, you want to improve your road skills and be better able to cope with the loose surfaces and washouts that so regularly present themselve whilst we're burning around on the sports bike loops - then go and chuck a leg over something with knobbys and hit the dirt for an afternoon baby - slide - who cares?

Try it - you'll like it - and it'll make you a better road rider - regardless.

bd


And that's why I reckon you should mix the mag up - don't give them a choice...the more you expose them to dirt bikes,cruisers and classics the better,break down the narrow minded outlook some of the readers have.There's a hell of a lot more to motorcycles than whatever they are into at the time.

[White trash]

And that's why I reckon you should mix the mag up - don't give them a choice...the more you expose them to dirt bikes,cruisers and classics the better,break down the narrow minded outlook some of the readers have.

....or drive them away and loose circulation.

[Motu]

I rode sports bikes for years (western victoria jumping mineshafts and shit)... will again oneday for fun somewhere...but I just dont wanna read about them... I used to have a stack of aussie SPORTSbike magazine 5 feet high... from the early 80's.. when I was interested...
If that what sells, then fine... I just get sick of the same sports bikes page after page.... issue after issue... I only flick thru the road bit... bores me to tears

also get sick of BMW reviews but hey, thats just me...

I cant see why, as I've said before, I should buy a mag that I only read half of...

no hard feelings... just not my thing... :apint:


[edit] to tell you the truth, I cant even watch WSB or MotoGP on tv any more because it seems every track is the same... boring....

My thoughts exactly...

[Oscar]

Oscar, Baylis and - more importantly - I, will be around and pound you of you do!

Vege could be lurking somewhere too. Actually I don't think anyone would worry. not for me to say, but, servants of the people and all that, and no such thing as bad advertising etc.
or
$8.95 at your news stand :yeah:

bd

I wouldnae waste my time with any gurlies who are afraid of dirt riding...

And as for only reading half the mag, they're actually talking about skipping the big words...

[gav]

So wheres the Kiwirider website?

[Oscar]

So wheres the Kiwirider website?

They havnae got one.
I've only been on at Vege for five or six feckin' years about it...

[Oscar]

which we've already established is far too infested with all that filthy dirtbike-related nonsense.



Wrist too limp fer a man's motorcycle, huh?
Poor dear...

[Big Dave]

They havnae got one.
I've only been on at Vege for five or six feckin' years about it...

http://www.bikemart.co.nz
is up and running.

You're right of course it needs a bit about the mag, contributors and contact and subscription forms as minimum - and I'll get on it after I get the current batch of jobs out of the way.

Thing is - I was Art director/production mangler at Rugby World and Fishing World magazines at IT Media for a while - and we coudn't make the numbers stack up for the cost of resourcing supporting web sites properly - against their projected revenues. Core business and all that.

bd

[Oscar]

http://www.bikemart.co.nz
is up and running.

You're right of course it needs a bit about the mag, contributors and contact and subscription forms as minimum - and I'll get on it after I get the current batch of jobs out of the way.

Thing is - I was Art director/production mangler at Rugby World and Fishing World magazines at IT Media for a while - and we coudn't make the numbers stack up for the cost of resourcing supporting web sites properly - against their projected revenues. Core business and all that.

bd

Good start.
The thing is that for a paper mag, a website shouldn't be regarded as anything but an advertising expense- I doubt if any earn their keep in a direct way.

[hobdar]

Ummmm, I think that's against copy write (right) laws. Maybe. Dunno. Apart from that, they neglected in my trailer park upbringing to teach me of scanners and how to actually use them.


Nah only if you copy more than 10% of the total magazine i think....any one been to unversity

[Mitch]

I think he may have taken it as a personal attack or summit. :spudwhat:

Ya I was under that impression by the time I finished reading his excessively long and rather drawn out responce. Was a little disappointed he felt the need to cram it full of statistical bollocks too :shake:
I have to admit when I wrote that letter I was only looking for an e-mail responce.
Good for a laugh none the less, oh and a mental note to discuss with my Mother WHY she felt the need to give me such an unusual name hehehe
I can't get away with anything :cool:

[Big Dave]

>>Power is nothing without control.<<

And like, you're a model of self control?
How's ma grrrrl?
bd

[James Deuce]

I'm composing a reply, and I'll run it by you before I send it.

Needless to say, I won't be buying KR again.

The crap about Magazine schedules was rubbish.

As far as I know, the Wanganui races have been on for 50 years and Boxing Day has been the 26th of Dec. for a bit longer than that.

Like WT I wasn't really interested in some crap about a couple of old ladies (see this issue of KR), or random photos of the crowd. AMCN has a good format for race reports. Unfortunately RM seems about as arrogant as Paul Owen.

BRM will be the only Kiwi mag I buy from now on. I'll flick through KR on the shelves somewhere.

[Mitch]

>>Power is nothing without control.<<

And like, you're a model of self control?
How's ma grrrrl?
bd

Hey You gorgeous wonderful man!!!
How the hell are you and your lovely wife???
All is better then good down here, hope to see you on your way through to the south island, have airbed and spare room are at your disposal :niceone:
My self control is still as in tact as last time you saw me hehehehe
Lotsa :ar15: and a tiny wee but of :brick:

[Kwaka-Kid]

Hey Mitch!

Got a copy of KR @ work and noticed it too!

Good stuff :) -when u next up here?

[Big Dave]

I'm composing a reply, and I'll run it by you before I send it.

Needless to say, I won't be buying KR again.

The crap about Magazine schedules was rubbish.
Unfortunately RM seems about as arrogant as Paul Owen.

BRM will be the only Kiwi mag I buy from now on. I'll flick through KR on the shelves somewhere.

Well then, you'll miss the stunning re-design of the publication that i've been slaving over.

I haven't read Mitch's letter or the response, so busy I have only checked my ads so far, but my understanding of the publishers policy is that 'Bike Mart' - free with Kiwi Rider - is the vehicle for publishing race results and news - and KR is the 'human interest', magazine section.

I know Ross well, and Paul Owen not so well, but my experience is that they are not arrogant people - rather the 'firm in their convictions' type with the self belief necessary of one willing to sit in the editor's chair.
Charming blokes across the dinner table and servants to motorcycling.
If your reasoning is sound - Ross will listen.

bd

[Hitcher]

I've looked for a rant by Mitch in both the January and February issues of Kiwi Biker and can't find anything. What page of which issue is it on?

[Big Dave]

Hey You gorgeous wonderful man!!!

Awwww - you say the truest things.


How the hell are you and your lovely wife???

She's babe-riffic and looking the goods in her recently aquired E320 with all the AMG shite. Doesn't take much....
Me, I still live in NZ and play with motorcycles for a living....'nuff said really.


All is better then good down here, hope to see you on your way through to the south island, have airbed and spare room are at your disposal

Thank you, unfortunately it's the first one we're going to miss. Just too big an ask time-wise with what both of us have got going on, pwofessionally - plus I've spent all my $ on the Trophy again.- but man, it's zoomin'

We'll be down later in the year whan we can aford to tour the SI properly - and i can smell trouble :yeah:

Lynita has settled into 'that chair' quite happily. Hippy hates postie.


My self control is still as in tact as last time you saw me hehehehe

Schwing! There is considerably less of me from last time you saw me. Still pick you up with one arm - easy. And I know where to find ya now.

:cool: bd

[Motu]

I thought it was a pretty good response - but then I'm the guy who mentioned the huge turn out for Desert Storm in the how to improve road racing thread.Road racers have a high opinion of themselves considering they are a small dot in the total motorcycle users in the country.Bleating is not the way to improve your lot.

:apint:

[Oscar]

I thought it was a pretty good response - but then I'm the guy who mentioned the huge turn out for Desert Storm in the how to improve road racing thread.Road racers have a high opinion of themselves considering they are a small dot in the total motorcycle users in the country.Bleating is not the way to improve your lot.

:apint:

I was thinking that myself.
This site is the opposite of reality - lotsa roadracing squids and fuck all dirt riders. Road racing in Godzone currently consists of irrelevant classes racing dangerous tracks. Motorcycling NZ have a lot to answer for the state of roadracing in this country - for example, why the fuck do they keep funding/supporting guys to the IOM? It's about as relevant to modern motorcycling as moped racing. It's about time they were trying to get guys into MotoGP. The irony is that Aussies and Kiwi's pretty much run MotoGP with the Spanish and Eyeties.

I mean look at recent results - we haven't had a decent roadracer since Simon Crafar (who started as a dirt rider btw), and since him we've had the King Brothers, Stefan Merriman, Josh Coppins and Ben Townley.

Ohh, and before you start saying this response is negative - I've done my bit for Road Racing in this Country: I ran the last Hamilton Street Race, half a dozen Hamilton Winter Series and I've managed a guy with multiple national championships as well as running his MotoGP appearances.

[James Deuce]

And I know what you dirt guys are saying, and I agree.

However, there are is segment of the readership that would like to see local road race reports produced locally. Bikemart doesn't do the job as a the vessel for roadracing in NZ. I pull it out and give it to the kids. It's an afterthought tacked on to niche magazine. The only guy I've seen report and represent both dirt and road racing is Bernard Carpinter. If his stuff is ending up in Bikemart then I apologise, but I've only spotted him very ocassionally in the Dom Post, and his rare reports in AMCN.

We either want motorcycle sport to grow in NZ or we don't. Dirt stuff is just irrelevant for me. It is really boring to watch for me. I've tried. I enjoy SMX, but that's a gladiatorial sport. It's the same old story. Everyone (and I've been guilty of it) will bag someone else's ride because it isn't them. But to the average non-motorcyclist there is no difference between a Gas Gas trials bike and a KTM 640LC. And I stick up for dirt racing. I've get the derisory comments at work, and the "how do NZ riders do overseas. Haven't heard of a NZ world champ lately" comment gives me a good lead in to Ben Townley. I probably bore them rigid. Shuts them up but.

Big Dave, don't take this the wrong way. I know how hard designers work, and I know that it is 1 percent inspiration, 1 percent art and 98 percent hard work. KR would do better to proof read their articles than to spend money on a redesign. This month's was particularly bad for spelling and grammatical errors. There have been times when part of multi page articles have missed a bit, or the paragraphs have been layed out in a way that makes it very difficult to follow. I hope the new design fixes that.

But! If they are going to cover road races, then a race report would be nice. Not some waffle about the crowd, or a couple of significant people. Dale's report was nice, but it only touched the surface of the event I feel. Ross's reply could and should have been condensed to, "Thanks for your feedback Mitch, but we reserve the right to manage both the content and editorial tone of KR. It may change in the future but for now we feel we serve our readership's requirements best the way it is."

The rambling reply did him no good in my view.

Mitch helped me out a lot after my accident last year, both with the Insurance process, and by telling me that, "yes, you are a fuckwit for falling off, but we all do that. What are you gonna get next?" I don't think she deserved to be browbeaten.

BD you obviously missed Mr Owen's venomous letter to BRM about their review of the Rocket III. I don't read the dirt section of KR, so I might well be reading RM wrong, but the tone of the road section feels like sales brochure, and I'm sure it's only there so that born agains will buy the mag.

[Big Dave]

BD you obviously missed Mr Owen's venomous letter to BRM about their review of the Rocket III. I don't read the dirt section of KR, so I might well be reading RM wrong, but the tone of the road section feels like sales brochure, and I'm sure it's only there so that born agains will buy the mag.

hey no dramas jim,

I actually supplied the press releases that were the cause of the 'exchange' you mention. But I stand by my comments. (And look forward to the next model release or whatever I'm at where both of them show up!).

I was laughing because I cut and pasted a little of the technical data in the KR test myself.

As for the 'sales brochure' tone - I can only comment on my own contributions and say that I accept your criticism, however mine are mostly 'features' that I try to make entertaining - and I happily do what i can to promote just how bloody good riding and touring in NZ is.

I honestly haven't tested a bike I had any real issues with yet. It all relative, and 'taste' issues notwithstanding, there isn't much to 'not like' about most modern motorcycles you know. The orange 'overdrive' indicator on the v-strom is the only thing that has really annoyed me in all the time i've been doing it.

Jamming my thumbs on the tank of the MVAgusta is the only other 'negative' i can bring to mind - and i still gave it my BOTY.

Design-wise my brief is about improving clarity, legibility, production values and ease of production, in a 'styley' look - that will reduce the problems you mention. But you'll never know ;-P

all good
bd.

[James Deuce]

The feature articles (that means you BD) and the columnists almost always do a great job on the spelling and grammar front, but the bike reviews and product review copy could really do with some work.

I think though that NZ specialist publications tend to discount or ignore criticism, and blame content issues on lack of resource. I have rightly or wrongly detected a tone that basically says put up with it because we know best, in KR's editorial style. BRM are a lot more accessible in terms of the publication's culture.

I know that you'll just be going, "so what, it's only one lost customer", but the obvious dirt bias has always made it a marginal purchase for me, and I've only really bought KR out of patriotic loyalty. There's an alternative now, so I'll stick with that I think.

[Motu]

I like road racing,but not the modern bikes,they all look the same screaming around the track,I have no idea what's going on,bores me shitless...until I see Lance Lowe on his black bike devoid of sponsers graphics,that helps me place the bikes in the field...that I knew his father in days of yore could help in me spotting him though.I like F3 is it?? where there are lots of different bikes mixed up - I like to see a V twin against a 2 stroke against a 4 cyl against a motard against an ex GP bike,that's more like the real world to me.Classics are where my interests lie,again,lots of different bikes competing against each other - although a 350 classic race with 18 B31s in a field of 20 and a 500 race with 17 B33s in a field of 19 is a bit boring...but it reflects the 50s where the clubmans races were totaly BSA dominated.

The magazine has to go where the public's interest lies,that 1200 can turn up to COMPETE in Desert Storm is a pretty good indication as to what's happening out there.I also remember say,12 years ago when my Australasian Dirt Bike and Kiwi Rider were ripped out of my hands by my daughter as she poured over the dirt bikes...so I'm not surprised to see a kids section growing in the mag - I don't read that part,but I'm ALL for it,I don't care if they leave the stuff I really want to read out to fit the kids page in...it NEEDS to be there.I think the mag reflects the motorcycling public of NZ very well.

[Slim]

... until I see Lance Lowe on his black bike devoid of sponsers graphics,that helps me place the bikes in the field...that I knew his father in days of yore could help in me spotting him though.
He's on a green Kawasaki now, but I'm not sure how much sponsership he's got now. It's certainly minimal compared to the likes of Anstey & co on the Museum Hotel bikes.

I caught your rant too Mitch, and thought the response was over-the-top & well on the defensive.

[Big Dave]

so I'm not surprised to see a kids section growing in the mag -

Yup!
Check these guys
http://www.davidcohen.co.nz/kr_jnr.jpg
they're cool.
bd