New Championship, new rules

[Shaun]

Drop SB, to exspensive, bugger chasing the factories spent money with your own!

WE WILL HAVE TV ( LG) have them as well- Plug Push :dodge: I have a $20K sponsor NOW! for a new series

Prime class- ss600

F2, Reintroduce it, 250cc 2 strokes and 600 cc 4 strokes- Apart from that NO RULES- Kiwi building style, and apperance quality control required for TV reasons


F3 as is

125 as is- POSS incorporate the 150 world from sth- staggerd starts?

SC-You guys decide!

1st year, 5 rounds in the NTH, repeat events at selected tracks

2nd year include 2 rounds in the Sth as well as 5 in the nth

Co-ordinate a shipping/trucking company for containers to transit bikes and gear to keep costs down both ways, and a few buses for transport of one and all, to and from arranged heavily discounted accomodation, Unless you want to drive.

Employ a co-ordinator/promotor on a base salary of say $15K (CASH) IRD not required here, + phone and vehicle costs, give him/her x % of what sponsorship cash they can bring in

This person also arranges bulk purchase deals of product, to help pass the cost saving on to the racers:banana:

MODS - please add a voting pole to this PLEASE

I would Love the position?

[CHOPPA]

I fully agree with paying a promoter!! It should be a professional position, maybe keeping say 5% of money raised that would get them really motivated!

As far as the rules and chasing factorys if the rules were open that would leave us chasing the factorys even more, imagine there bikes turning up with factory forks etc etc and motor work cost lots and makes bikes unreliable

Speed-Techs ZX10R that im riding is competitive and all it has is a inlet cam, exhaust, filter and race ecu. We havnt even tuned the bike. It also has ohlins fork internals and shock but it certainly didnt cost anymore to set up then the 600. If the superbike rules were limited to nz 600 rules and you stopped cross entry for 600s and did something to encourage riders to step up like cheaper entry for superbikes or prize money and actually recognise superbike as the premier class, that would be the ticket in my mind.

[slowpoke]

Haha, Clubman's is gonna be the toughest class in the land with all the old big bangers left with nowhere else to race.

[sinfull]

Man you must sleep with two cheeks hanging off the edge of the bed ! Good on ya !

[Ivan]

Its a really really good idea.

Cutting costs is also going to bring more people from Club scene format to Natinal level because look at a club event Vic Club for example the costs are low reallyandthetiem on the track is worthwhile and you end up with full gridsand have to have riders put into other classes to keep it going

Wereas a National race meet Entry fee's are so high plus the cost of transport to and from the meetign and tires and running the bike for 3 days it all adds up along withferry costs etc

Were asif you have this idea of Transporters and buses its going to really chop down the costs and makes it cheaper to as more people paying less it costs overall for each rider to get his biek down.


Hope it really works out Shaun

[vtec]

Definitely needs to be looked at. MotoGP was smart enough to do away with 990's and bring it back to 800's, and it has improved it.

Your plan is good Shaun, but obviously F2 rules would need to be looked at a little more closely, like allowing 750 or 700cc twins?

[scracha]

F2, and apperance quality control required for TV reasons

So ugly people must wear tinted visors?



F3 as is

F3 is currently fucked Shaun. At least you're letting ugly people in the lower classes.

[Shaun]

Man you must sleep with two cheeks hanging off the edge of the bed ! Good on ya !



Do you mean me? WHY?

[sinfull]

Do you mean me? WHY?
I read and follow your posts ! Though i dont and will never claim to know that much about the sport, it's something that interests me and i'm getting into it (allbeit 30 yrs too late) !
I know that when i embrace something and put everything i have into it, it even occupies my dreams !
Nice to see ppl living the dream !!

That's all !

[HDTboy]

Rather than do away with the premier class, why not just build a series using superstock rules from another country (U.K.)?
There's a brilliant product (motorcycle racing as entertainment) waiting to be marketed correctly. I agree with you that there needs to be a paid promoter, and raise you a promotion company with dedicated publicists, advertising sales reps, and a team of journalists knocking out press releases every 5 minutes. Live radio commentary of each and every race would be a good start, allow TAB to take bets on race outcomes, and delayed TV coverage (even on sky) of every race would work too. If speedway can be run profitably, then what are MNZ fucking about with?

[Shaun]

I read and follow your posts ! Though i dont and will never claim to know that much about the sport, it's something that interests me and i'm getting into it (allbeit 30 yrs too late) !
I know that when i embrace something and put everything i have into it, it even occupies my dreams !
Nice to see ppl living the dream !!

That's all !


Cheers, I thought you might have been refering to the time I posted it. Since my crash and healing, I only sleep about 4 hours a day/night now, so get a lot during he middle or the normal sleep time

Sleeping is for wimps anyway

[Shaun]

Rather than do away with the premier class, why not just build a series using superstock rules from another country (U.K.)?
There's a brilliant product (motorcycle racing as entertainment) waiting to be marketed correctly. I agree with you that there needs to be a paid promoter, and raise you a promotion company with dedicated publicists, advertising sales reps, and a team of journalists knocking out press releases every 5 minutes. Live radio commentary of each and every race would be a good start, allow TAB to take bets on race outcomes, and delayed TV coverage (even on sky) of every race would work too. If speedway can be run profitably, then what are MNZ fucking about with?



Discussed this today with a couple of suspension experts, and we all ended up agreeing ( God) on running Total STD motors in SB class, with a pipe and power commander only, Apart from the chassis, which would remain as is.

And also to change the SS600 class to the same as above.

Prodi racing as such!

[steve74]

F3 is currently fucked Shaun.

I agree with scracha, F3 has been well and truly kicked in the guts. only 3 or 4 of the big money sv650/400 fours are finishing ahead of a stock standard pro twin. Hell Glen williams is competitive in 600ss on his thing.

Why not do something like this http://www.sbl.org.au/

as shaun said, with appearence rules. it would be one of the cheapest ways to boost bike racing numbers and put bums on race bikes.

I seen a few of these races in Australia, and yes they are 15 to 20 year old bikes but a full field of competitive beautifully presented 400s and 250cc strokers looked impressive and professional on the grid as any SBK or Motogp races ive been to. They even have umbrella girls.:clap:
I take my hat off to those boys that actually got off there ass to race in F3 at this years nationals,taking nothing away from them, but surely a shit load of nicely presented clangers is better than the huge differential of horsepower and money that we currently have in F3 right now.

[brads]

Discussed this today with a couple of suspension experts, and we all ended up agreeing ( God) on running Total STD motors in SB class, with a pipe and power commander only, Apart from the chassis, which would remain as is.

And also to change the SS600 class to the same as above.

Prodi racing as such!

I would second that.:yes:

[Kiwi Graham]

Like the idea of an agent, went down that line in the UK....he wanted 50% of all cash support!!!! ended up with the usual and much needed/appreciated product deals ground out by myself.

Co-ordinating all that would be a huge task, if it could be done the savings would be huge!

[ArcherWC]

I would second that.:yes:
second from me too

[CHOPPA]

Discussed this today with a couple of suspension experts, and we all ended up agreeing ( God) on running Total STD motors in SB class, with a pipe and power commander only, Apart from the chassis, which would remain as is.

And also to change the SS600 class to the same as above.

Prodi racing as such!

It seems so simple aye! I fully agree, how does a rule change take place?

[slowpoke]

MotoGP was smart enough to do away with 990's and bring it back to 800's, and it has improved it.


Are you watching the same series that I am? Costs have ballooned with the 800's because horsepower is expensive now as manufacturers try to screw every last pony out of the smaller capacity, whereas the 990's almost made more than enough. They also need more sophisticated electronics to control the now peaky as fuck donks. The ol' 990's were also comparartively understressed making that massive hp and lasted twice as long.


Hell Glen williams is competitive in 600ss on his thing.

How much of that is Glen? I reckon he'd be competitive on a GN250

.... but surely a shit load of nicely presented clangers is better than the huge differential of horsepower and money that we currently have in F3 right now.

If horsepower is primary then how come Sam Love embarrasses most F3 bikes on a Pro-Twin? Because he's blardy good! People get caught up with the bike spec's rather than just riding the wheels off what they've got.

[Brian d marge]

This Idea was muted a year ago ( ish ) , except for the transport side of it , which funnily enough I was looking at the price of second-hand trucks on trade me ,,,surprisingly cheap ( read more than I could afford but not so expensive as a club /sponsor couldnt afford ... we are talking Kenworths here ,,not a Mitsi flat deck ! )

What Shaun has said ..has a lot going for it and it Can be made to work ( dont worry about the details such as F2..what size ,,etc ,,,, get the basics right ,,, whats in it for me ....me as a racer, me as a supplier , me as a wife of a racer , with 2 kids wanting an ice cream ...me as a TV producer charged with finding something for the sunday slot at 3 pm

Trouble is racing costs money , either the person pays , or someone elses pay , and both need an ROI either in enjoyment or ion the case of sponsors ,, products/services shifted ( or in my case product tested ) So untill all parties get a reasonable ROI , the grids will remain empty.

Here ( in Japan ) I race a Royal Enfield ..( I know!!) , but I get 5 races in one championship a year , costs all up for the year about one months salary ( which is a lot when you have 2 young children , with school fees etc )

My ROI , is the parts that I develop for this bike , using the computer , have some spin offs...1..... other design work in other areas such as Logo designs . 2 Repair of other bikes , which come in due to exposure on the track . finally a small amount of part sales ...from bits I have developed. (very small ).

So overall , while I still do a part time Job to make ends meet ,,,in the long term the racing pays off (in a small but acceptable way , for me )

Finally , when My wife turns round and says , lets go tot he bike racing ,, A , Hell would have frozen over , or B there was something there that made her want to go ...such as the kids asking to be taken there because it was fun ......

I reckon the Paris /Daker meets all the above ,,,but the wjife doesnt even know it exists .... unlike most of Europe ,,,and almost All of Chilli !


Stephen

[Shaun P]

Discussed this today with a couple of suspension experts, and we all ended up agreeing ( God) on running Total STD motors in SB class, with a pipe and power commander only, Apart from the chassis, which would remain as is.

And also to change the SS600 class to the same as above.

Prodi racing as such!

A rule to limit tyre use and testing at tracks would be the biggest levelling/cost reduction factor imo. Also dyno testing of the bikes would have to be carried out at each track to show up any anomalies for stock machines, suppose wouldnt take long with 8 bikes :Oops:

[ajturbo]

ok... how do "we" do this?... do we HAVE to go the MNZ way? or make a clean brake and book the tracks our selves?...
set up a race COMPANY for NZ?...

why cannot one man (Shaun?) do this himself?...

IE:the Crusty Demons... they have a show, lets take it to the people...

why cannot one person do this????(set up the Co?) and say. stuff the establishment, this is what I believe NZ racer/viewers want...then just do the homework and get the ball rolling....

i'll wave a flag for food..(and beer)

[ArcherWC]

ok... how do "we" do this?... do we HAVE to go the MNZ way? or make a clean brake and book the tracks our selves?...
set up a race COMPANY for NZ?...

why cannot one man (Shaun?) do this himself?...

IE:the Crusty Demons... they have a show, lets take it to the people...

why cannot one person do this????(set up the Co?) and say. stuff the establishment, this is what I believe NZ racer/viewers want...then just do the homework and get the ball rolling....

i'll wave a flag for food..(and beer)

This was tried a few years ago with the "Dirtbike Federation", I believe they were even running Woodville (one of the biggest events on the calender), however, once they got to a size where they were challenging MNZ, MNZ started to stop the top riders from competing (I think they threatened to take there licenses off them, which would have effected their overseas commitments), and it dosnt matter how good the entertainment is, if you take away the "known" riders, you take away the big crowd draw-cards

[ajturbo]

This was tried a few years ago with the "Dirtbike Federation", I believe they were even running Woodville (one of the biggest events on the calender), however, once they got to a size where they were challenging MNZ, MNZ started to stop the top riders from competing (I think they threatened to take there licenses off them, which would have effected their overseas commitments), and it dosnt matter how good the entertainment is, if you take away the "known" riders, you take away the big crowd draw-cards


bugger....................

[Scoot_6R]

Rather than do away with the premier class, why not just build a series using superstock rules from another country (U.K.)?


Superstock 1000 over here got really expensive as they were all running pretty much superbike spec bikes especially one particular yamaha with traction, launch and wheelie control suppled from motech. He turned up to race meets in a helicopter with his mechanic and then drove away in his ferrari. Not naming any names!!

[scracha]

suppose wouldnt take long with 8 bikes :Oops:
You don't have to dyno test every machine....just pick 3 at random. This would work in other classes too.

Can someone explain how MNZ can block riders from racing at other events? Surely that's not in their mandate?

Their Mission Statement : Fostering the sport of motorcycling and making it safe, fun and fair

We essentially are MNZ, without us MNZ would not exist. Therefore MNZ don't tell us what to do...it's the other way around.....innit?

[Shaun]

Rather than do away with the premier class, why not just build a series using superstock rules from another country (U.K.)?
There's a brilliant product (motorcycle racing as entertainment) waiting to be marketed correctly. I agree with you that there needs to be a paid promoter, and raise you a promotion company with dedicated publicists, advertising sales reps, and a team of journalists knocking out press releases every 5 minutes. Live radio commentary of each and every race would be a good start, allow TAB to take bets on race outcomes, and delayed TV coverage (even on sky) of every race would work too. If speedway can be run profitably, then what are MNZ fucking about with?



PS, I have no personell problem with the things that MNZ do, they are officually just an admin centre to process licenses and follow up with protests Insurance etc, the rules,and the legal aspects of the sport really.

[Tony.OK]

Why can't we have the two classes combined but with separate championships? Exactly like the ProTwins and F3. Then you have the drawcard of the big teams and a goal for the S/stock rider to aim for rather than just being there with no hope of staying near the big boys.
That way a really talented rider on a S/stock bike may be noticed if he's beating a worked bike..................

[scott411]

This was tried a few years ago with the "Dirtbike Federation", I believe they were even running Woodville (one of the biggest events on the calender), however, once they got to a size where they were challenging MNZ, MNZ started to stop the top riders from competing (I think they threatened to take there licenses off them, which would have effected their overseas commitments), and it dosnt matter how good the entertainment is, if you take away the "known" riders, you take away the big crowd draw-cards


this statement is not very true

the NZ dirtbike federation was started by the Auckland Motocross club (ardmore mx track) after he was declined entry into MNZ on a number of issues, some of them were petty small issues, but one of the major ones being the lack of a true club structure (no voted in commitee), Whakatane now runs under similar rules to the Dirtbike federation but does not name them in their summercross advertising so i am unsure if they are members or not, woodville has not been ever run under NZDBF,

one previous MNZ CEO (Trevor) did make some noises about trying to penalise riders for racing outside MNZ, however he was quickly reminded that it is against NZ law to do so, it comes under restraint of trade laws, and has been proved in law against the old NZACU's speedway control board back in the late 80's (this was when all speedway came under MNZ (incl Cars))

As for the person that asked how to change the rules, contact the Road Race Comissioner, (i would wait till after the nationals to get a reply) and thier is normally a road race workshop held on the saturday of the conference in May, Paul Pac the CEO of MNZ has stated he wants to lesson the mods available to the SUperbike and Sports production rules, in any email to the road race comissioner i would link these conversations,

good conversation in here to guys,

[Bren_chch]

Why can't we have the two classes combined but with separate championships? Exactly like the ProTwins and F3. Then you have the drawcard of the big teams and a goal for the S/stock rider to aim for rather than just being there with no hope of staying near the big boys.
That way a really talented rider on a S/stock bike may be noticed if he's beating a worked bike..................



http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=79825&page=4

[ArcherWC]

this statement is not very true

the NZ dirtbike federation was started by the Auckland Motocross club (ardmore mx track) after he was declined entry into MNZ on a number of issues, some of them were petty small issues, but one of the major ones being the lack of a true club structure (no voted in commitee), Whakatane now runs under similar rules to the Dirtbike federation but does not name them in their summercross advertising so i am unsure if they are members or not, woodville has not been ever run under NZDBF,

one previous MNZ CEO (Trevor) did make some noises about trying to penalise riders for racing outside MNZ, however he was quickly reminded that it is against NZ law to do so, it comes under restraint of trade laws, and has been proved in law against the old NZACU's speedway control board back in the late 80's (this was when all speedway came under MNZ (incl Cars))

As for the person that asked how to change the rules, contact the Road Race Comissioner, (i would wait till after the nationals to get a reply) and thier is normally a road race workshop held on the saturday of the conference in May, Paul Pac the CEO of MNZ has stated he wants to lesson the mods available to the SUperbike and Sports production rules, in any email to the road race comissioner i would link these conversations,

good conversation in here to guys,
Cheers for clearing that up Scott, its amazing the sort of rumors and half truths that circulate the pits :-)

[Mystic13]

Surely, if you want to create a show where people turn up you'd talk with the people that do it succesfully.

I don't attend races because;

- I have no idea when theyr'e on
- I went once and the place was barren
- As a spectator it's about entertainment and that includes food and drinks.

Having said all of this I intend to wander along to a couple of races in the near future to see if it's changed at all (read - worth attending) and if not then I won't be back for sometime.

My kids are all in for a good days entertainment. We attended a fair few of the U17 Womens International Soccer Tournament at Harbour Stadium and loved it. I don't like soccer as sport and never watch it. Of the 6 in the family only my 9 year old plays the sport. And even he prefers bikes. But we loved the soccer and the whole thing was well run, entertaining and value for money. I still don't watch soccer and it doesn't interest me.

Good luck with trying to inject a bit of life into bike racing... it needs it. Committees generally don't make good promoters.

So why is Wanganui so succesfull? And the person that runs that must be worth hiring part time or having a serious talk with.

[wharfy]

So why is Wanganui so succesfull? And the person that runs that must be worth hiring part time or having a serious talk with.

Wanganui has been going for over 50 years and it is an EVENT that has taken on a life of its own. It is also unique in the location and title (Cemetery Circuit conjures up a lot of images when coupled with motorcycle racing). Plus the spectators get so close to the track they can feel the breeze as the bikes go past. It is now part of NZ motorcycling folk law. To race at Wanganui was on my "things to do before I die" list for about thirty years.

Plus I can't think of a successful NZ rider that hasn't competed at Wanganui.

Also I think there are plenty of people who go to Wanganui to lear up and don't give a toss about the racing and will pay $30 for the opportunity.