Is this legal?

[Chill]

Rode past near a cop parked up by the side of the road this morning.
30 seconds later was waved over by a second cop who was already parked up.

I pull over, turn the bike off and he comes up, says my bike is too loud, checks my rego & wof and tickets me $150 for pipes being too loud. Doesn't do a noise check - isn't even standing next to the bike when it's turned on - just says the other cop radioed to him that my bike was too loud.
My bike passed WOF with the same pipes.

Is there anything I can do about this?

[NighthawkNZ]

Rode past near a cop parked up by the side of the road this morning.
30 seconds later was waved over by a second cop who was already parked up.

I pull over, turn the bike off and he comes up, says my bike is too loud, checks my rego & wof and tickets me $150 for pipes being too loud. Doesn't do a noise check - isn't even standing next to the bike when it's turned on - just says the other cop radioed to him that my bike was too loud.
My bike passed WOF with the same pipes.

Is there anything I can do about this?

this the new law that is a huge grey area... do a search there are heaps of threads on it

[hayd3n]

you can contest it but could cost you more
maybe as an idea go to police station and have them prove it is or not

[Chill]

Cheers, I have searched the forums and read some stuff on it but not sure it related to exactly the same situation. Maybe I missed it

[Katman]

And so, it starts.

[Road Guardian]

I pull over, turn the bike off and he comes up, says my bike is too loud, checks my rego & wof and tickets me $150 for pipes being too loud. Doesn't do a noise check - isn't even standing next to the bike when it's turned on - just says the other cop radioed to him that my bike was too loud.
My bike passed WOF with the same pipes.

Is there anything I can do about this?

Ask your self, is the bike noisy when its idling?? Is it noisy when at say 4-5000rpm??

Has the bike been modified in anyway that may increase the noise level???
Go and get another WOF done, ask them to do a noise test.

[short-circuit]

And so it starts.

And so what starts?

[Tank]

Rode past near a cop parked up by the side of the road this morning.
30 seconds later was waved over by a second cop who was already parked up.

I pull over, turn the bike off and he comes up, says my bike is too loud, checks my rego & wof and tickets me $150 for pipes being too loud. Doesn't do a noise check - isn't even standing next to the bike when it's turned on - just says the other cop radioed to him that my bike was too loud.
My bike passed WOF with the same pipes.

Is there anything I can do about this?

I guess the REAL question is "are your pipes legal?"

If not you really cannot complain can you?

[Iggy]

And so what starts?

KATMAN?

:corn:

[piston broke]

i think maybe,pick on biker year

[Swampdonkey]

need to prove them wrong......or pay the fine

[Tank]

i think maybe,pick on biker year

again - if the guys pipes are actually too loud - then its not really picking on bikers is it?

People choose to make their bikes loud. You take the risk and fines with it.

[Mully]

KATMAN?


nerna nerna nerna nerna. Katman. Katman.

[Tank]

I'm looking at getting a Suzuki Intruder 750 that has aftermarket pipes on it, quite small straight ones (sorry not sure what they are exactly) and they have a ring of discolouration on both of the two pipes.



Would these short straight pipes be the ones causing the problem?

[Chill]

They are after market pipes, they're loud but nice - not deafening.
They've passed WOF.

I was just put off by the fact the cop did no test or anything, I didn't even have the bike on when he came over to ticket me.

[jtzzr]

And so what starts?

"IT"

Sounds idiotic on the pipe situation , seems any copper can just say " Your pipes are too loud!" Start paying .

Would love to know who calibrated the officers ears.

[Tank]

They are after market pipes, they're loud but nice - not deafening.
They've passed WOF.

I was just put off by the fact the cop did no test or anything, I didn't even have the bike on when he came over to ticket me.

Passing WOF dosnt mean that they are legal.

Upshot is that the pipes are going to be noticeably louder than stock. Thus he had you pulled over. They do this for other infringements also like speeding.

I feel for you if the bike isn't that loud - some are just bloody terrible. But count yourself lucky that you didnt get green stickered.

[Iggy]

nerna nerna nerna nerna. Katman. Katman.

LOL......... ssssshhhhh he might notice :shit:

[smoky]

Too many people just roll over and play dead
Why the **** put up with shit like that
You know if your pipes are loud - if they're not then fight the bastards
Go get them tested then shove it up the arsholes by appealing the infringment notice
have some balls

:Punk:

[piston broke]

again - if the guys pipes are actually too loud - then its not really picking on bikers is it?

People choose to make their bikes loud. You take the risk and fines with it.

absolutely.
but if the media reports are anything to go by,
i think we may well here a lot more of this sorta thing.
where was his noise meter?

[FJRider]

Rode past near a cop parked up by the side of the road this morning.
30 seconds later was waved over by a second cop who was already parked up.

I pull over, turn the bike off and he comes up, says my bike is too loud, checks my rego & wof and tickets me $150 for pipes being too loud. Doesn't do a noise check - isn't even standing next to the bike when it's turned on - just says the other cop radioed to him that my bike was too loud.
My bike passed WOF with the same pipes.

Is there anything I can do about this?

Take it to court, you'll need a lawyer, and lots of money to pay him.
Your options are on the back of the ticket...

[Tank]

Too many people just roll over and play dead
Why the **** put up with shit like that
You know if your pipes are loud - if they're not then fight the bastards
Go get them tested then shove it up the arsholes by appealing the infringment notice
have some balls

:Punk:

So you suggest fighting it on his subjective measurement of what's loud?

What if he spends all that money and finds out that it isnt legal?

[trumpy]

Go and get them certified. If they pass they are legal, irrespective of what Mr Plod may think.
Not cheap but could save a lot of money in the long run.
My after market pipe is not that loud but I will be doing this to protect myself from poorly drafted laws and irresponsible Plods.

[Tank]

Go and get them certified. If they pass they are legal, irrespective of what Mr Plod may think.
Not cheap but could save a lot of money in the long run.
My after market pipe is not that loud but I will be doing this to protect myself from poorly drafted laws and irresponsible Plods.

I just looked up the cost - only about $130 - 200

At that price get them done and the fine will go away.

LTNZ text follows:

The Objective Noise Test is a stationary tail-pipe noise test procedure based on international standards and can only be carried out by an approved low volume vehicle (LVV) certifier. If your vehicle passes the Objective Noise Test the LVV certifier will attach a label to the vehicle and issue a certificate. The cost of the test is about $130–200, depending on location. It is a one-off cost provided the exhaust system is maintained in good condition and is not modified further.

[short-circuit]

Ok, whether or not someones pipes are too loud or not can surely only be assertained by testing the decibel level with a decibel meter.

Why should the onus be on a biker to prove they are complying with the law when they can easily test it then and there as they do with Roadside Breath Testing Devices

Some cop having a slow day pulling people over claiming their pipes are too loud based on his subjective judgement is unacceptable.

[NighthawkNZ]

Go and get them certified. If they pass they are legal, irrespective of what Mr Plod may think.
Not cheap but could save a lot of money in the long run.
My after market pipe is not that loud but I will be doing this to protect myself from poorly drafted laws and irresponsible Plods.

and here is the problem that is...

After they are certified... and stamped... mr plod can still say they are too loud (because they could have been modified after they were certified) so you have to go get they done again... and again... and again

[BIGBOSSMAN]

I'm afraid to say my respect for the police has free fallen over the years, this sort of stuff is pathetic revenue gathering at very best.
I've required the 'services' of our courageous boys in blue over the years, and there is not one situation where they delivered.

On the perennial 'speed kills' issue they've force fed the public over time, it's unadulterated and sanctimonious bullshit.
Try training the average baboonish kiwi driver to drive safely for a change - which in Germany can be done at quite some speed btw, instead of supporting the witless advertising industry in NZ.

Rant over :whocares:

[mattian]

My bike passed WOF with the same pipes.

Is there anything I can do about this?


I don't recall ever having any specific tests done on the sound of my exhaust/bike when I went and got a warrant........ do they do that now?

[smoky]

It’s interesting that in this country we are suppose to be innocent until proven guilty
I’d send in a copy of the WOF, with a letter appealing the infringement.
Ask them on basis do they base the charge that they are too noisy.
Just keep on insisting they are not too noisy and appeal – eventually they will drop it or it ill end up in court – if it ends up in court then the court can order a test

[xgnr]

I just looked up the cost - only about $130 - 200

At that price get them done and the fine will go away.

LTNZ text follows:


Dont want to be negative here but might they just suggest that the "tested" pipes were not the ones fitted at the time of the offence?

[Elysium]

They're concerned about after market pipes on a bike being too loud? Maybe they should concentrate on those anoying Rotas and shit-box racers with their fart pipes dragging on the ground, they're more common and at the most anoying times of the morning and night.

**end rant**

[reofix]

I'm sick of other peoples noise... harleys with open pipes ... sportboys with aftermarkets... (both wear earplugs FFS)... ear watering car stereos (get an ipod and blow your head off ... leave us alone!!!)... the display of noise is a pathetic small boy "look at me" ... time to move on gentlemen

[short-circuit]

I just looked up the cost - only about $130 - 200

At that price get them done and the fine will go away.

LTNZ text follows:

The Objective Noise Test is a stationary tail-pipe noise test procedure based on international standards and can only be carried out by an approved low volume vehicle (LVV) certifier. If your vehicle passes the Objective Noise Test the LVV certifier will attach a label to the vehicle and issue a certificate. The cost of the test is about $130–200, depending on location. It is a one-off cost provided the exhaust system is maintained in good condition and is not modified further.

Don't talk shite - the onus of prove should be on them. They want to lay the charge - they should pay for the test (as with breath/blood alcohol)

[Tank]

They're concerned about after market pipes on a bike being too loud? Maybe they should concentrate on those anoying Rotas and shit-box racers with their fart pipes dragging on the ground, they're more common and at the most anoying times of the morning and night.

**end rant**

Playing devils advocate - but why are loud cars any worse than loud bikes?

[short-circuit]

Dont want to be negative here but might they just suggest that the "tested" pipes were not the ones fitted at the time of the offence?

That's where a decibel meter would help at the time plod pulls said biker over

[The Stranger]

I don't recall ever having any specific tests done on the sound of my exhaust/bike when I went and got a warrant........ do they do that now?

We had a cage fail a noise test at a testing station.
Took the vehicle to Woolf Muflers, they put in 2 resonators, took it back and it passed the re-test.
I believe they are meant to and as noted, some do.

[Tank]

That's where a decibel meter would help at the time plod pulls said biker over

The guy has short straight pipes (see his post earlier).

I think we (and the cops) can all tell that they would be noticeably louder than stock.

If you change stock pipes for louder ones - get them certed (just like cage drivers have to do).

The bikes are signed off as meeting NZ requirements when its new. You make changes you need to be able to prove that its legal. simple really.

[jtzzr]

[QUOTE=short-circuit;1889679]
Why should the onus be on a biker to prove they are complying with the law when they can easily test it then and there as they do with Roadside Breath Testing Devices

I hope the plod do`nt read that .

Breath Testing for Motorcycles, I can picture it now.
Officer: "Please Mr Motorcycle this is a Random Decibel Check, breathe into this whilst stating your make and cc rating".

Motorcycle:BROOMMM, BROOMM

Officer: "Unfortunately Mr Motorcycle you have failed the evidential Decible Test, I now require you you to accompany me to the nearest Decibel Testing facility".

Nooooooooooo

[Elysium]

Playing devils advocate - but why are loud cars any worse than loud bikes?

Ok compare a Honda VTR 1000 with custom pipes to that of any cheap boy racer car with big bore exhaust. Which sounds better?

[The Stranger]

Don't talk shite - the onus of prove should be on them. They want to lay the charge - they should pay for the test (as with breath/blood alcohol)

Shouldn't the onus be on the person modifying a vehicle to demonstrate that the vehicle still complies with the law? If you don't want the hassle, don't modify it.
The govt sets the laws and vehicle importers must demonstrate compliance with these laws, how is this any different?

[reofix]

"why are loud cars any worse than loud bikes?"

err they arent... crush them all!! send the scrap to china
__________________

[Motu]

And so, it starts.

Been a long time coming - but it's worth the wait.

[short-circuit]

The bikes are signed off as meeting NZ requirements when its new. You make changes you need to be able to prove that its legal. simple really.

No, for good reason the burden of proof should rest with the state (as the have considerably more resources at their disposal). If the state implements new legislation governing rules about noise emission, then the state should foot the bill for policing/testing.

[Blackshear]

Fuck. Guess I should find my baffles and make an exhaust tip :Pokey:

[Tank]

Ok compare a Honda VTR 1000 with custom pipes to that of any cheap boy racer car with big bore exhaust. Which sounds better?

Its subjective.


A Boi racer would say phat pipes on a Subaru sound better.

My mum would say both sound like arse.

Someone who hears them screaming past their house at all hours wont care what sounds best - they want quality of like in their home - without having loud as fuck pipes waking them and their baby at 2am.

[chocobo_ff]

Take a look here: http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/rules/q-and-a/vehicle-equipment-amendment-2007.html

In particular:

Currently, clause 7.4 of the Land Transport (Road User) Rule 2004 provides for on-road enforcement of vehicle noise. Under this Rule, a Police officer can issue an instant $250 infringement offence notice carrying 10 demerit points if a person operates a vehicle that creates noise which, having regard to all the circumstances is excessive. Since February 2005 this has included noise from stereos and “boom boxes”.

Maybe it was too loud for the "circumstances", i.e. early in the morning?

[short-circuit]

Shouldn't the onus be on the person modifying a vehicle to demonstrate that the vehicle still complies with the law? If you don't want the hassle, don't modify it.
The govt sets the laws and vehicle importers must demonstrate compliance with these laws, how is this any different?

Many aftermarket exhaust systems still comply with noise regulations. Some pipes can be baffled or debaffled accordingly.

There are many "standard" pipes that have been gutted and would not comply.

If a means of testing is available - it should be used. When I go for a warrant I don't rely on whether a tester "thinks" my stop light is clearly visible enough - The tester has a manual with stipulated viewing angles and distances outlined, tread depth on tires is measured etc

[Chill]

The guy has short straight pipes (see his post earlier).

I think we (and the cops) can all tell that they would be noticeably louder than stock.

There are louder than stock but I think I gave the wrong impression of what pipes they are. They aren't those straight, thin slash-cut ones you see on loud harleys - they're bigger, longer, throatier and less loud.

The time was just before 8am, morning work traffic..

[short-circuit]

Someone who hears them screaming past their house at all hours wont care what sounds best - they want quality of like in their home - without having loud as fuck pipes waking them and their baby at 2am.

I'm not disagreeing about the amount of noise that is or isn't acceptable. I'm objecting to a method of "law enforcement" which relies on an officer's subjective judgement. I'm also objecting to an argument that cost for fighting a possible bogus charge should fall on Joe Blogs

[Spyke]

Bung summit into the pipe (non conspicuous) and goto the cop shop an show them its really quiet. Take a spark plug out of 1 of the cylinders and do the same lol

[scumdog]

Don't talk shite - the onus of prove should be on them. They want to lay the charge - they should pay for the test (as with breath/blood alcohol)

Fuck off - where does your logic fit in with any other sort of test that depends on a WOF check?

Cop can order you of the road because he reckons your car has altered steering/suspension/seat-mounts etc - no 'proof' necessary.

[short-circuit]

Bung summit into the pipe (non conspicuous) and goto the cop shop an show them its really quiet. Take a spark plug out of 1 of the cylinders and do the same lol

The point is he shouldn't have to if his bike doesn't exceed 100 decibels

[scumdog]

Go and get them certified. If they pass they are legal, irrespective of what Mr Plod may think.
Not cheap but could save a lot of money in the long run.
My after market pipe is not that loud but I will be doing this to protect myself from poorly drafted laws and irresponsible Plods.

Be aware - if you get stopped and stickered for excess noise you will have to get your zorst certified - the catch being that it will have to be certified at 5 decibels lower than required by law BEFORE you got stopped.

i.e: you were ok at 95 decibels but due to your modified zorst you got 'stickered' and needed zorst certified- so NOW you're only allowed a level of 90 decibels.

[short-circuit]

Fuck off - where does your logic fit in with any other sort of test that depends on a WOF check?

Cop can order you of the road because he reckons your car has altered steering/suspension/seat-mounts etc - no 'proof' necessary.

1. Watch your language when you address me

2. Why don't you carry on with your agenda of revenue collection quietly and try not to "think" too much.

[McJim]

"why are loud cars any worse than loud bikes?"

err they arent... crush them all!! send the scrap to china
__________________

Sounds like a damn good place to send beemers then.

I strongly disapprove of legislation of this nature where the whole thing is subjective and based upon human opinion. It's actually fear of this kind of punitive legislation that generates hatred for the Police, paranoia about the lack of come back and contributes to people doing "runners".

With anecdotal stories like this it seems that word will get out and people will simply assume the worst of the Police - this can only lead to more bother since the Police are merely civillians charged with upholding the law however things like this will give the impression that the police belive themselves to be above the law. This is not good for Police/Public relations and I hope the majority of the police force are far sighted enough to realise that effective policing requires the cooperation of a willing public.

By increasing the polarity in the "Them and Us" situation with heavy handed contacts they will inadvertently make policing in the community that bit harder for themselves.

[shafty]

How about some pics or video with sound Chill?

[scumdog]

1. Watch your language when you address me

2. Why don't you carry on with your agenda of revenue collection quietly and try not to "think" too much.

(a)OK - but I don't know who you are..

(b) It's none of you business......I think:devil2:

[short-circuit]

I strongly disapprove of legislation of this nature where the whole thing is subjective and based upon human opinion.

Absolutely - this sort of legislation is both unclear and concerning. It is also unnecessary as objective measures can be employed

[piston broke]

Sounds like a damn good place to send beemers then.

I strongly disapprove of legislation of this nature where the whole thing is subjective and based upon human opinion. It's actually fear of this kind of punitive legislation that generates hatred for the Police, paranoia about the lack of come back and contributes to people doing "runners".

With anecdotal stories like this it seems that word will get out and people will simply assume the worst of the Police - this can only lead to more bother since the Police are merely civillians charged with upholding the law however things like this will give the impression that the police belive themselves to be above the law. This is not good for Police/Public relations and I hope the majority of the police force are far sighted enough to realise that effective policing requires the cooperation of a willing public.

By increasing the polarity in the "Them and Us" situation with heavy handed contacts they will inadvertently make policing in the community that bit harder for themselves.

absolutely,
bring back the M.O.T.
maybe we will regain the respect we once had for the police.

[Spyke]

The point is he shouldn't have to if his bike doesn't exceed 100 decibels

that is true :doh:, what can he do? not pay and goto court, does he have to pay for fees if he doesn't use a lawyer? would they throw it out if they don't have appropriate evidence?

could be straight up and go in to the coppers, say where's the proof to this so called ticket i'll pay for muffler certs if its illeagal. (cops shouldn't ticket people without real proof that anyone has broken the law)

law fark man, need to make some proper legislations so we don't have these stupid problems about who's abit to loud today, so next they gonna cop a fine :2guns: on the poor squeling kid who fell out of her pram and grazed her knee cause she was abit to loud for old man plods ears as he strolled down the footpath? :confused:

[Gubb]

Be aware - if you get stopped and stickered for excess noise you will have to get your zorst certified - the catch being that it will have to be certified at 5 decibels lower than required by law BEFORE you got stopped.

i.e: you were ok at 95 decibels but due to your modified zorst you got 'stickered' and needed zorst certified- so NOW you're only allowed a level of 90 decibels.

Whoa, that's new to me, anyone have a link to the legislation about that?

[Katman]

1. Watch your language when you address me



Oh dear, this sounds Dangerous.

[BIGBOSSMAN]

Be aware - if you get stopped and stickered for excess noise you will have to get your zorst certified - the catch being that it will have to be certified at 5 decibels lower than required by law BEFORE you got stopped.

i.e: you were ok at 95 decibels but due to your modified zorst you got 'stickered' and needed zorst certified- so NOW you're only allowed a level of 90 decibels.

Typical 'you're on detention' style policing from todays police force, what a waste of space. If the guy gets stopped again and stickered, will the new limit for him then be 85dB?
Bring on the electric motorcycle I say...

:Police: = :tugger:

[Ixion]

Rode past near a cop parked up by the side of the road this morning.
..

Well, that was y' big mistake right there.

Lesson no 16 in the biker lexicon. If you MUST pass a cop (much better to turn round and go another way if you see him in time , why be todays quota), then do so at WAY under the speed limit, on a trailing throttle (or whatever makes your bike quietest). Even pull in the clutch and coast past. Sit up as straight as y' can and stare straight ahead. There was a reason we used to call them snakes y'know. Don't trust 'em, there's always SOMETHING they can find to ping you for, no matter how legal you are.

Or pull into a drive or a servo or something until he's buggered off.

[trumpy]

Be aware - if you get stopped and stickered for excess noise you will have to get your zorst certified - the catch being that it will have to be certified at 5 decibels lower than required by law BEFORE you got stopped.

i.e: you were ok at 95 decibels but due to your modified zorst you got 'stickered' and needed zorst certified- so NOW you're only allowed a level of 90 decibels.

And the logic of this piece of legislative brilliance is..........? Oh never mind..logic is not the strong point of those in our legislation drafting business.
I do feel for those of you having to administer/police some of the idiocy that seems to emanate from certain offices in our fine capital (recently with some considerable frequency it seems).

[McJim]

The legislation itself appears to be a knee jerk reaction to some of the radical noise polluting modifications done by some bikes and by a good deal more cars. A line had to be drawn in the sand and that line was 95 decibels - which is pretty farken loud. I personally don't have any problem with this since my bike is a 2 valve per cyl air cooled twin and gets measured at 3,000 rpm. At this level my bike is really quiet - prolly only 70 decibes or so. HOWEVER when I accelerate the tone of the engine makes it sound louder than it really is.

Because of this I am worried that some young copper anxious to please his boss will hear me performing a legal overtaking maneouvre and think my bike is REALLY loud due to the pitch rather than the volume, pull me over, charge me $250 give me my first EVER set of demerit points along with my first EVER official contact with a police officer (I've met a great many socially!) and it will cost me $200 to show that the $250 charge is false and THEN have to do the same thing the following week - ad nauseum.

Maybe I should have bought a Jappa with expensive parts and short service intervals after all.....:rofl:

[Ixion]

One point , is that the decibel stuff only applies to measurements of the EXHAUST. Whereas the "excessive noise " thing from a cop can cover ANY noise. On the Titan, the intake drone can often be loader than the exhaust. Gold Wing riders could also be done for excessively load stereos.

Oh, and be VERY careful not to fart when going past that cop. It could just put you over the limit.

[Mystic13]

This story seems to sum things up pretty well

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4601553a11.html

So even with the warrant pass they're going subjective because some people alter their exhausts after the warrant.

Seems it's time this was tested but to test post ticket would require the vehicle to be held or you could argue you've re-inserted teh silencer.

Personally i think the ticket is worth argue at least.

[Mystic13]

This thread appears to be full of misinformation according to the Land transport website and the latest rules.

They're worth a read.

http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/rules/q-and-a/vehicle-equipment-amendment-2007.html

- new rules came into effect June 08
- under 125 cc up to 96dBA and no louder than the original exhaust
- over 125cc up to 100 dBA " " " " " " "

If you're louder than original then as I read it you need to be certified.

It also seems that they will make sure Police have the tools for effective enforecement. (See point 29)

The test is not a static test but a drive by test while accelerating. So is it possible cop 1 in this case had the measuring equipment?

[mdnzz]

My XS passed it last WOF at Rolling Thunder, had 2-1 straight pipes both sides. Got it tested and they were 103Db, more than enough to get the maximum prize of $250 and 10 demerits.
Now has 4-1 pipe and baffled.
Missus 48cc 3/4 chopper (no wof needed) has a pipe with one baffle chamber(chines crap setup), shoots flames out back on deceleration and sounds more like a trailbike, its tested at 76Db:gob:
My old subaru gtb had a factory fitted big bore exhaust always passed wof's no issue yet had a few coppers quite often tell me it was a bit loud (86Db) until I pointed out thats how Subaru (yes it was factory even had the little stickers still on it) got them made, you gotta problem with that then fine the makers of the pipe.
As soon as you modify anything you become subjected to the laws and any revenue gathering.
Its the same issue with speeding, your not allowed to do it but your still allowed to buy radar detectors to let you know there is a revenue gatherer ahead so you can slow down.
It is illegal to pervert the course of justice but manufacturers don't get touched only the end user hence the user pay term applies

[short-circuit]

I do feel for those of you having to administer/police some of the idiocy that seems to emanate from certain offices in our fine capital (recently with some considerable frequency it seems).

Why? Most of them and Scumdog in particular, seem to relish the opportunities this kind of crap legislation presents.

[civil]

MNZ MX clubs now have noise meters. Find you local club and go check out how loud you pipes are.

[Mystic13]

I noticed in the Land transport site that exhaust sellers are being told of the new rules to help with compliance.

This seems to me to mean that they are needing to make sure that the pipe they sell complies with the dBA limits. If this is the case then any pipe sold through the specific brand dealer should be good to go. I wonder if the exhaust manufacturers, importers and re-sellers have the cert and can you use that rather than paying for a new one each time?

[fireliv]

Ok so if this matter goes to court then first off I would think this would go before a JP. U dont need a lawyer if that is the case. If a decibel reading was not taken a the time then what is the eveidence going to be?

Cop " He road past and I noticed his bike was loud"
You " What is the legal decibel reading for a motorcycle?"
Cop "_______decibels"
You " And what reading is my bike at"
Cop " Dont know I didnt get a reading done"
You " Then how can you prove beyond a reasonable doubt that my bike was over that reading"
Cop " I can't"

Not very convincing is it?
No prosecutor would push this case, I mean there is just no evidence.

[Badjelly]

Is there anything I can do about this?

Fit quieter pipes?

[Tank]

At the end of the day - if they are a little loud you will probally get away with it forever.

Its the very loud bastards that attract attention and will get tickets.

The cops are in their right to ticket all in the manner that they are currently.

By all means fight it as much as you like - but in the end they will simply make it illegal to modify / change exhaust on bikes without getting a certification at the outset to prove your modifications are acceptable.

[NordieBoy]

This seems to me to mean that they are needing to make sure that the pipe they sell complies with the dBA limits.

And if I put it on a Mini?
A rotary?
A V8?

They can only cert it if they have total control from the manifold back.

[Badjelly]

Ok compare a Honda VTR 1000 with custom pipes to that of any cheap boy racer car with big bore exhaust. Which sounds better?

To the general public, neither.

[scumdog]

Why? Most of them and Scumdog in particular, seem to relish the opportunities this kind of crap legislation presents.

Oh, yeah, man, you bet!!
I must have have I've stopped ooooh, about a jillion bikes and written them off the road, whoo-wee, was THAT ever satisfying.. :bleh:

Ask all the other KBers I ride with, I'm a right arsehole and road-nazi, oooh baby am I ever.. :woohoo::Pokey:

[NighthawkNZ]

Ask all the other KBers I ride with, I'm a right arsehole and road-nazi, oooh baby am I ever.. :woohoo::Pokey:

yup sounds like you... :innocent: :blink:

[scumdog]

At the end of the day - if they are a little loud you will probally get away with it forever.

Its the very loud bastards that attract attention and will get tickets.




Now ain't THAT the truth!!:yes:

[P n G]

if the pipes were on the bike when passed WOF it should fall back to the wof issuing authority, you could ring them and see what they have to say, bottom line being if they have ok'd the bike for WOF then all should be ok especially considering the cops didn't do an official noise test, if you can be bothered with ra ra shit shit time time to pursue.

[xgnr]

absolutely,
bring back the M.O.T.
maybe we will regain the respect we once had for the police.

Bling for you sir

We "knew" they were arseholes right!

They pull you over... you were screwed.

Arrogant little men in their jackboots and moustaches.

(but maybe I was young and arrogant?? and the fact that the old man was a truckie didn't help in moderating my opinion) :laugh:

Police were the good guys :Police:

[McJim]

Just had a nother look today at the law regarding this.

For bikes over 125cc the allowed sound output is 100 decibels. (for cars it is 95)That's louder than you are allowed to be at Teretonga which has a 95 decibel limit.

So on a bike you are gonna have to be REALLY obnoxious to get pinged.

Scumdog - seems your Harley is gonna get pinged though :rofl:.

I think in deference to the gubbermint here they have allowed another 5 decibels for bikes over cars so it seems they accept the louder sound output from a two wheeled contraption since the legislation was originally aimed at the boi ricers in their jappas with tiny engines and huge exhausts (unlike we older gentlemen with our big American and Australian cars with big engines and big exhausts :Pokey:)

Chill - what kind of bike do you ride? It would have to be a big twin to make over 100 decibels. Harley? Ducati? TL thou?

[NighthawkNZ]

For bikes over 125cc the allowed sound output is 100 decibels. (for cars it is 95)That's louder than you are allowed to be at Teretonga which has a 95 decibel limit.

So on a bike you are gonna have to be REALLY obnoxious to get pinged.

Scumdog - seems your Harley is gonna get pinged though :rofl:.

Chill - what kind of bike do you ride? It would have to be a big twin to make over 100 decibels. Harley? Ducati? TL thou?

My half Debaffled VTR is 95-96db at about 4500 rpm...

(when I say half only the rear chamber of the can has been debaffled)

[McJim]

My half Debaffled VTR is 95-96db at about 4500 rpm...

(when I say half only the rear chamber of the can has been debaffled)
You've heard my bike - it's not too loud is it?

[NighthawkNZ]

You've heard my bike - it's not too loud is it?

I would guess its about the same?

Although I have not been pulled over as of yet due to noise... If I was how do I prove that they are still 96db and have not been altered since the last test... and if that is the only thing I have been pulled up for and they are still 96db then I still have to pay for the test again... again...

and then what is stopping it from happening again... and again... I may not have to pay for the fine but the test to proove will add up quick smartly...

[The Lone Rider]

Ive been pulled over for speeding, but was the loud pipes that gave me away and I was fined for that.

I told the cop that the pipes were under the legal limit. He looked at them and said they look home made. I replied they were made at a muffler shop (the truth in fact!) and I haven't had them chromed yet. He then said if it wasn't so late at night (11pm) he'd take me to a place and get it tested. Then he handed over a ticket.

Regardless of the law written out it still stands that if a cop THINKS your bike is to loud they can ticket you. End of story. That's it. Generally they will only pull you over if you are riding in areas or at times where noise is effective on the community.

In my case I was riding at night where supposidly a lot of houses are (although it was a road lined with car dealers, scrap yards, few industrial places, and some shops the whole length of the road).

And for the record... I miss that hugely loud and obnoxious bike (except for if I have been riding for more than an hour at a time)

And you don't need a big twin to make 100db. Anyone who has heard my last bike.. which was measured at 108db in an informal test 1m behind the bike with a Dick Smiths SPL meter.... knows that it was not coming from a big engine.

[vgcspares]

I'd contest any ticket like that in court, that's for certain ! And if they've got no actual proof they probably wouldn't even turn up and it would be case dismissed.

[Hailwood]

1. Watch your language when you address me

2. Why don't you carry on with your agenda of revenue collection quietly and try not to "think" too much.

Let me guess..the next step will be contacting DB with it and we all know what heppens then...its going INTERNATIONAL!!!!!!!!!!:bleh:


Short Circuit maybe read some of SDs posts in other threads before making some comments. I havent met him but having read a lot of his posts, he seems like a decent guy who genuinely has an interest in and for motorcyclists. He has also been on this site a very long time.......and has a very high rep level...food for thought anyway....

[Ixion]

Just had a nother look today at the law regarding this.

For bikes over 125cc the allowed sound output is 100 decibels. (for cars it is 95)That's louder than you are allowed to be at Teretonga which has a 95 decibel limit.

So on a bike you are gonna have to be REALLY obnoxious to get pinged.

Scumdog - seems your Harley is gonna get pinged though :rofl:.

I think in deference to the gubbermint here they have allowed another 5 decibels for bikes over cars so it seems they accept the louder sound output from a two wheeled contraption since the legislation was originally aimed at the boi ricers in their jappas with tiny engines and huge exhausts (unlike we older gentlemen with our big American and Australian cars with big engines and big exhausts :Pokey:)

Chill - what kind of bike do you ride? It would have to be a big twin to make over 100 decibels. Harley? Ducati? TL thou?


But Teretonga is measured at track side, quite some distance away, not with the mike shoved up a few centimetres from the exhaust.

The reason we get an extra 5dB isn't benevolence, it's just because on bikes the engine noise contributes more than on cars (as it is also just a few centimetres from the mike).

[short-circuit]

Let me guess..the next step will be contacting DB with it and we all know what heppens then...its going INTERNATIONAL!!!!!!!!!!:bleh:


Short Circuit maybe read some of SDs posts in other threads before making some comments. I havent met him but having read a lot of his posts, he seems like a decent guy who genuinely has an interest in and for motorcyclists. He has also been on this site a very long time.......and has a very high rep level...food for thought anyway....



I replied as I did due to his earlier comments in this thread and for your infomation I have read a great deal of his posts which I have observed are often anti-biker and mostly (as in this case), in favour of the law in it's current form. Even when it's plainly an ass.

As far as I can tell though he can deal with my difference of opinion by himself - so no need for a knight in shining armour mounted on Harley there Hailwood.

Red Bling earned from someone like you is a badge of honour

[Tank]

I have read a great deal of his posts which I have observed are often anti-biker

Just to clarify - you think that Scummy is anti-biker? (anti clothes maybe)

[NighthawkNZ]

you think that Scummy is anti-biker? (anti clothes maybe)

Only at rallies... :blink:


however anti biker he is not...

[mdnzz]

The police have the right if they believe your pipe to be loud to issue an infringment notice, it is then their discretion if they give you an instant $150 or the $250 +10 demerits, you have the right to defend as clearly written on the back.
I am sure our law enforement (scumdog;) )team here can verify this

[short-circuit]

Just to clarify - you think that Scummy is anti-biker? (anti clothes maybe)

Does a pretty good impression at times

[short-circuit]

The police have the right if they believe your pipe to be loud to issue an infringment notice, it is then their discretion if they give you an instant $150 or the $250 +10 demerits, you have the right to defend as clearly written on the back.
I am sure our law enforement (scumdog;) )team here can verify this

We are all aware of these facts. I think people are objecting to the fact that the police can issue a ticket for noise with out evidence (based on a guess) and then the biker has to go to the expense and trouble of proving that they aren't exceeding a noise limit. This is patently rediculous

[NighthawkNZ]

We are all aware of these facts. I think people are objecting to the fact that the police can issue a ticket for noise with out evidence (based on a guess) and then the biker has to go to the expense and trouble of proving that they aren't exceeding a noise limit. This is patently rediculous

and thats the bit I don't like...

[scumdog]

Sooooo, after near a hundred posts and a lot of headless chicken type stampeding - how many bikers HAVE been given tickets for noisy bikes?

And how many of them have unmodified after-market 'zorts' or stock ones??,

[dipshit]

Just close the throttle when you go past cops. :weird:

[NighthawkNZ]

Just close the throttle when you go past cops. :weird:

On big V-Twins that actually makes more noise and is probably nigher db... ummm :crazy:

[scumdog]

We are all aware of these facts. I think people are objecting to the fact that the police can issue a ticket for noise with out evidence (based on a guess) and then the biker has to go to the expense and trouble of proving that they aren't exceeding a noise limit. This is patently rediculous

Just like they can take your licence off you before your drink-driving case has gone to court - or take your car off you because they reckon you spun the tyres too much before the case has been to court.<_<

It's life, chill out dudes and stop worrying and whinging too much - it might not happen:wari:

[dipshit]

On big V-Twins that actually makes more noise and is probably nigher db... ummm :crazy:

OK. Providing you weren't pulling 8000rpm then. In that case close the throttle and get on the brakes!

What I'm saying is to idle past cops. Do not give it a big handful while in earshot!

[scumdog]

I replied as I did due to his earlier comments in this thread and for your infomation I have read a great deal of his posts which I have observed are often anti-biker and mostly (as in this case), in favour of the law in it's current form. Even when it's plainly an ass.

As far as I can tell though he can deal with my difference of opinion by himself - so no need for a knight in shining armour mounted on Harley there Hailwood.

Red Bling earned from someone like you is a badge of honour

PM anybody that knows me - get an opinion, an honest one from people that have actually met me...THEN comment.

[Ixion]

In fact, the cops can ticket you regardless of at , and even if you pass a WoF. And even if you get certified.

What the law says



.4 Noise

(1) A driver must not operate a vehicle that creates noise that, having regard to all the circumstances, is excessive.

(2) A person must not create by any means (for example, a car stereo) within or on a vehicle any noise that, having regard to all the circumstances, is excessive.

(3) In determining whether any noise is excessive, regard may be had, in addition to all other relevant matters, to—
(a) the manner of operation of the vehicle:
(b) the condition of the vehicle:
(c) the time of the day when the noise is created:
(d) the locality where the noise is created:
(e) the likelihood of annoyance to any person:
(f) any relevant standard or specification that applies under the Act.


Note the bit I bolded. If a cop thinks the noise is excessive , in the circumstances, he can ticket you.


An example might be redlining your bike, in second gear , at 2am past a hospital. Even if your zorst is certified to well within the db limits the cop may still think your operation was too noisy

Also, it is ALL noise. Not just exhaust. Not so relevant to us maybe, but it also covers doof-doof stereos on ricers.

I am conflicted. On the one hand I think that discretion is usually a good thing. On the other, it can be abused. The problem with this particular bit is that there is no way reproduce the noise if you want to challenge it.

[NighthawkNZ]

What I'm saying is to idle past cops. Do not give it a big handful while in earshot!


I ilde past everywhere these days... :lol:

[dipshit]

I ilde past everywhere these days...

Then I bet you won't have much trouble even though you drilled your mufflers out. :confused:

[NighthawkNZ]

Then I bet you won't have much trouble even though you drilled your mufflers out. :confused:

Hopefully not... ;) so far so good...

[BM-GS]

I'd not only ticket, I'd arrest the git on (from the sound of it) a cruiser-type motorbicycle who left his house this morning before 6am. He made a token effort of being less noisy than he might be going up the (long, uphill) driveway, then gassed it as soon as he got on the (long, residential) road and many other similar roads, before he finally buggered off over a hill and out of earshot.

Loud pipes may save lives, but they make lousy neighbours.

[scumdog]

I ilde past everywhere these days... :lol:

Don't worry, ya ain't THAT loud.:bleh:

[sunhuntin]

I'd not only ticket, I'd arrest the git on (from the sound of it) a cruiser-type motorbicycle who left his house this morning before 6am. He made a token effort of being less noisy than he might be going up the (long, uphill) driveway, then gassed it as soon as he got on the (long, residential) road and many other similar roads, before he finally buggered off over a hill and out of earshot.

Loud pipes may save lives, but they make lousy neighbours.

agreed. basically a loud bike or car early in the am is like a lawn mower outside your window on a sunday morning while your trying it sleep in.

i remember i went to a rally a few years back where we all camped in a field. one of the guys there had a really nice sounding harley. i was amazed to watch him quietly walk the bike through the tents and well out of ear shot.

[scumdog]

Just to clarify - you think that Scummy is anti-biker? (anti clothes maybe)

Since short-circuit agrees with the above comment maybe they would like to post some quotes of mine that point to an 'anti-biker' attitude??<_<

I need some entertanment.:shifty:

[Rhino]

Gold Wing riders could also be done for excessively load stereos.
Steady on Ixion, I didn't think that I had The Who on THAT LOUD the last time we rode together. :bleh:

[NighthawkNZ]

Since short-circuit agrees with the above comment maybe they would like to post some quotes of mine that point to an 'anti-biker' attitude??<_<

I need some entertanment.:shifty:

oh come on Tom that's no fun... anti clothes, now that's a totally different thing I can prove that...

[SARGE]

i have a sound meter and the international ISO regs for sound testing.. wouldnt be able to document it and prolly wouldnt hold up in court but it would give you an idea


available for a small fee to cover my time and costs

[NordieBoy]

i have a sound meter and the international ISO regs for sound testing.. wouldnt be able to document it and prolly wouldnt hold up in court but it would give you an idea

Wouldn't the LTSA (or whoever they are this week) regs for sound testing be more appropriate?

[SARGE]

Wouldn't the LTSA (or whoever they are this week) regs for sound testing be more appropriate?

oh yeaa.. i forgot this was NZ..

please set your clocks back 20 years

[NordieBoy]

oh yeaa.. i forgot this was NZ..

please set your clocks back 20 years

Or read the specs...

http://www.lvvta.org.nz/stdExhaustNoiseEmissions.pdf

[PrincessBandit]

Haven't read whole thread, but it's obvious to all but the most naive that there will always be those who put a modified can back on after having their "standard" one present on their bike for the purposes of getting their warrant. Ditto for certification of aftermarket pipes i.e. modifying them again after the legal thing is done complete with little slip of paper saying all is ok.

In light of this I would only support roadside ticketing if the police have the db-o-meter (no, not their dangerousbastard-o-meter ;)) and can show the reading there and then.

What on earth will be next?????

[MarkH]

I would only support roadside ticketing if the police have the db-o-meter and can show the reading there and then.

I have to agree with this!

The good ole "let's give the police the power to pull over anyone, claim they were doing something wrong and give them a ticket, with no requirement for any proof - hell, let's just make it completely subjective"

How can we say this will never get abused? Who's to say that when you break up with a girl whose brother is a cop that all his mates wont suddenly realise that your stock exhaust is too loud and contravenes (e) the likelihood of annoyance to any person? Are you really supposed to accept a $250 fine & 10 demerit points multiple times because you pissed off some cop by dumping his sister? How could you prove the charges were malicious and amounted to harassment - there is no standard to measure the claimed offence against.

When you look at a law that says:
1) A driver must not operate a vehicle that creates noise that, having regard to all the circumstances, is excessive.
With no definition of excessive or the circumstances - you allow a cop to take out a personal grudge against someone while the victim has no way of disproving the offence. How can you argue against vague opinion?

[Chill]

MNZ MX clubs now have noise meters. Find you local club and go check out how loud you pipes are.

Who's that sorry?

Also to the person who asked what my bike was - Suzuki Intruder, 750cc