New Buell, or what?

[Ocean1]

Right. I find, suddenly, that I have a need to ride for extended periods of time at crawling pace. The sort of speeds much more appropriate for the more enthusiastic sort of treadley. Or between sections on a trials bike. Speeds typical, on a road bike, in navigating very heavy gravel. With both feet down. Suitable, in short, for loosely escorting the novice Mrs O1 on a Spyder. Pootling.

The Buell is, in my inarguably expert and entirely unprejudiced opinion, the ultimate machine for the sort of mostly legal and calculatedly brisk back-country carving and mild general hooliganism I find most enjoyable. It doesn’t so much smoothly and crisply navigate corners like a proper sprotsbike as bellow insults and then mug ‘em. This it does with the monotonous perfection of an idiot savant. The bits between corners are entirely wasted on it, the interminable advertisements between the show, inept foreplay to a stunning new conquest, utterly and forgettably irrelevant. And it don’t pootle worth a damn.

Things about the 12R that don’t fit “pootling” start with the riding position. At constant sub-100k velocities it’s painful after 20min. It’s fine for a short rural town interlude between the main countryside events, but that’s about it. It’s also OK for extended 100k highway work, but again, that’s not what it’s for, and that’s not why I bought it.

Also, like a lot of big bikes the engine’s less than comfortable at lower speeds. A lot of that, however, is down to the race kit. In standard trim it’d be almost bearable.

Also… Nope, that’s about it. In fact everything else is perfectly dandy. So, the solution’s obvious, innit. Trade the XB12R for an XB12S and Bob’s yer maiden aunt. However, much as I’m happy with the quality of my opinion in this matter, I can’t help but think there might be alternatives I’m less than fully aware of. Probably less good alternatives, but what the hell, if there’s no alternatives there’s no test riding, right?

So, gentlemen, what else might I consider in the way of large-ish, lightweight V twin non-sprotbike machines, with brutal mid-range torque and handling like a razor... that pootle?

[Blackshear]

Right. I find, suddenly, that I have a need to ride for extended periods of time at crawling pace. The sort of speeds much more appropriate for the more enthusiastic sort of treadley. Or between sections on a trials bike. Typical, on a road bike, in navigating very heavy gravel. With both feet down. Suitable, in short, for loosely escorting the novice Mrs O1 on a Spyder. Pootling.

The Buell is, in my inarguably expert and entirely unprejudiced opinion, the ultimate machine for the sort of mostly legal and calculatedly brisk back-country carving and mild general hooliganism I find most enjoyable. It doesn’t so much smoothly and crisply navigate corners like a proper sprotsbike as bellow insults and then mug ‘em. This it does with the monotonous perfection of an idiot savant. The bits between corners are entirely wasted on it, the interminable advertisements between the show, inept foreplay to a stunning new conquest, utterly and forgettably irrelevant. And it don’t pootle worth a damn.

Things about the 12R that don’t fit “pootling” start with the riding position. At constant sub-100k velocities it’s painful after 20min. It’s fine for a short rural town interlude between the main countryside events, but that’s about it. It’s also OK for extended 100k highway work, but again, that’s not what it’s for, and that’s not why I bought it.

Also, like a lot of big bikes the engine’s less than comfortable at lower speeds. A lot of that, however, is down to the race kit. In standard trim it’d be almost bearable.

Also… Nope, that’s about it. In fact everything else is perfectly dandy. So, the solution’s obvious, innit. Trade the XB12R for an XB12S and Bob’s yer maiden aunt. However, much as I’m happy with the quality of my opinion in this matter, I can’t help but think there might be alternatives I’m less than fully aware of. Probably less good alternatives, but what the hell, if there’s no alternatives there’s no test riding, right?

So, gentlemen, what else might I consider in the way of large-ish, lightweight V twin non-sprotbike machines, with brutal mid-range torque and handling like a razor... that pootle?
I've never ridden a Buell 1125cr, or even seen one in the flesh. But I hear they're a nice seating position for older guys, or in your case, comfortable. To an extent.

Buy one. BUY ONE NOW.
SO I CAN SEE IT.
145 watercooled, V-twin Rotax bred horses. OM NOM!
Anyway. That's my useful 2c.
Edit. I didn't read the non sprotbike bit, but still. V twin.

[Big Dave]

XB12X <tenchars> </tenchars>

[Krayy]

XB12STT...Streetfighter with soft road potential...best of both worlds.


And yes, it still mugs the corners with a huge growl. In fact I had a cop give me a dirty look today as I launched from the lights into a right hand turn, doing 50 but with the roar echoing off of the surrounding tower blocks....muahahahahaha


I LOVE MY BUELL!!!!!!

P.S. Pootle?? Like hell it does. Engine hunts all over at low revs unless I fill it with Gull Premium fuel. Got to have the high octane stuff else it misfires like a drunken injun.

[Ocean1]

I've never ridden a Buell 1125cr, or even seen one in the flesh. Edit. I didn't read the non sprotbike bit, but still. V twin.

There's one at Wgtn motorcycles. And the riding position ain't that sporty. It's on the to ride list, but to be honest while I have a lot of respect for rotax engines I expect to prefer the Buell donk.


XB12X <tenchars> </tenchars>

Yeah. Have ridden one, surprisingly different to the XBR. Also on the list, but it's way heavier and a bunch less sharp...

What's the difference between the X and the XT dude?

[jrandom]

You have ridden a Multistrada. Right?

[Ocean1]

XB12STT...Streetfighter with soft road potential...best of both worlds.

Yes, although it probably wouldn't do as much for me as an XB12X.


You have ridden a Multistrada. Right?

Listen, dude, I might be an engineer, and therefore somewhat blind of the finer nauances of aesthetics, but no. I'm prepared to accept that they're probably a good fit for the role... But just no.

[Big Dave]

Also on the list, but it's way heavier and a bunch less sharp...

What's the difference between the X and the XT dude?

You were drunk or the bike was badly set up. :-P

XT has all the dual sport ability removed. Strictly sealed road bike.

Big windscreen (yuck) and luggage included. It's also much shorter.

[Big Dave]

You have ridden a Multistrada. Right?

Strada is a fair bit faster bike. My PB for off road speed. It is a better tourer.
But I don't find it nearly as much fun as the XB.

[Big Dave]

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141616

[Ocean1]

You were drunk or the bike was badly set up.

XT has all the dual sport ability removed. Strictly sealed road bike.

Big windscreen (yuck) and luggage included. It's also much shorter.

How very un-PC BD, casting nasturtiums on my drinking habits. Well done.

But they’re a lot heavier than an S and much longer. If the XT is based on the R/S frame it’s on the list. The screen can be changed and the luggage can live in the gargre and come out for the odd tour. The lights would also need work.

[oldrider]

Ever thought of trying a Triumph Tiger 1050? Not a recommendation, just a thought! :shifty: John.

[Big Dave]

Ever thought of trying a Triumph Tiger 1050? Not a recommendation, just a thought! :shifty: John.

A 955i would fit the brief better.

[Big Dave]

Nobody on a lightning would clear out on me on my X - in road riding conditions - until we got to that gravel you mention.

[Ocean1]

Ever thought of trying a Triumph Tiger 1050? Not a recommendation, just a thought! :shifty: John.

A very good thought it is too.


A 955i would fit the brief better.

However, I don't plan on getting too dirty with this one.

I'm working on something WAY more agile for use as a sort of mobile excercycle. Just need to avoid the local trials guys or I will get press ganged.

[jrandom]

Listen, dude, I might be an engineer, and therefore somewhat blind of the finer nauances of aesthetics, but no. I'm prepared to accept that they're probably a good fit for the role... But just no.

*claps head in hands*

Please just go for a ride on one. Pretty please with cherries on top. G'wan g'wan g'wan g'wan.


I'm working on something WAY more agile...

<img src="http://i40.tinypic.com/316b4bb.jpg"/>

[Ocean1]

*claps head in hands*

Please just go for a ride on one. Pretty please with cherries on top. G'wan g'wan g'wan g'wan.

I notice that shot was from the rear, dude. But just mebe I will.

P'raps.

But this:


for use as a sort of mobile excercycle.

Is a separate issue...

[James Deuce]

The Multistrada is the Napoleon Dynamite of the bike world. Sure, it's tall and can go around corners, just like the aforementioned socially retarded orange afro wearer (it has a side parting!), but is Mr Dynamite the sort of person you'd want to spend any quality time with? I think not.

There's this Aprilia Shiver on Trademe for $13,800. In the classy white colour scheme. That's a bike with engineering in.

[jrandom]

I notice that shot was from the rear, dude.

I'm an arse man.

And if you're riding a Multistrada 1100, on tarmac or gravel, it's the only angle the Shiver pilots will ever see.

:innocent:

[jrandom]

... it's tall and can go around corners

Actually, the ground clearance is hardly any better than my GSX1400's.

The tradeoff for that, of course, is that the Mouldy Strudel offers nothing less than the most perfect riding ergonomics I've ever sampled.

(Yes, I know you think that Ducatis have bad build quality. I just haven't seen it.)

[James Deuce]

The Shiver's ergos are the best I've ever tried. But Ergos are almost entirely subjective, and are only of worth as a sales tool to someone who knows that their victim already fits a particular bike well.

I've always shied away from writing about Multistradas because the two I've looked at were just terrible, and to talk at length would have been a disservice to the kind gentlemen who let me ride them. Lets just say that Ducati had a period of financial crisis around the time they launched the MS thanks to their flagship 999 being a bit of a surprise to most of the Ducatisti. I reckon time will be kinder to the 999 than the 1098. The 1098 is undoubtedly beautiful, but derivative.

The Shiver OTOH reeks of quality and understated engineering expertise. There's a white one on Trademe for $13,800. FIrst service is done so that's out of the way.

[Ocean1]

I'm an arse man.

And if you're riding a Multistrada 1100, on tarmac or gravel, it's the only angle the Shiver pilots will ever see.

:innocent:

Better spec'd, yup. Bigger too. But how those top shelf components are arranged is another matter. It's close enough to the scope that I may try one. Reservations about how restrainable it might be on slightly more open roads.


There's this Aprilia Shiver on Trademe for $13,800. In the classy white colour scheme. That's a bike with engineering in.

Yes, spotted that.


The Shiver's ergos are the best I've ever tried. But Ergos are almost entirely subjective, and are only of worth as a sales tool to someone who knows that their victim already fits a particular bike well.

The Shiver OTOH reeks of quality and understated engineering expertise. There's a white one on Trademe for $13,800. FIrst service is done so that's out of the way.

So you figure I orta buy that one on Trademe eh? :laugh:

Not yet. Refine shopping list to 2 or 3 models, sell the 12R and then go looking.

I've got good reason to suspect a lot of Aprilia's engineering is, in fact, marketing. Same as most of the rest. The lower frame elements on the SXVs are one example, they look good, but there's better structural solutions to put it mildly. I didn't get that impression so much when checking out H's Shiver at the shop. The suspension is simpler than some of the alternatives, including the Buells, but that ain't nescessarily a negative. Much of what makes any machine isn't quantifiable in those terms. Intangibles.

Can't wait for the 1200 Shiver, unfortunately. So in spite of the lack of capacity induced stonk I'll try a 750.

[Forest]

The Multistrada is the Napoleon Dynamite of the bike world. Sure, it's tall and can go around corners, just like the aforementioned socially retarded orange afro wearer (it has a side parting!), but is Mr Dynamite the sort of person you'd want to spend any quality time with? I think not.

There's this Aprilia Shiver on Trademe for $13,800. In the classy white colour scheme. That's a bike with engineering in.

The Multristrada is the motorcycling equivalent of the Fiat Multipla.

[nallac]

God i don't know what fronts uglier the Fiat or Multistroodle.

But least the Duc has a nice looking ass...

[Crisis management]

You need to look at a KTM, the engineering will get your heart all fluttery and they haul arse with the best of them. Probably a 990 adventure (handles like a sprotsbike too) but I reckon the RC8 would be worth a look , it's apparently quite comfortable and rideable given it's sprotsbike pretensions.

I have to agree with JR about the Multi strudel (shall I reactivate my campaign to get someone to actually buy one?) but you need to tidy up the front with different fairings or become seriously myopic. They're a great bike and do fast and medium pace well.

Buells...why not go the bar riser way and adapt what you have, it's a bike after all, two wheels and a frame, the rest is ancillaries, customise, it'll be a great project!

[jrandom]

(shall I reactivate my campaign to get someone to actually buy one?)

I'd have bought one myself last year if it weren't for the fact that the GSX1400 was totally awesome and $8,000 cheaper.

[SPman]

. There's a white one on Trademe for $13,800. FIrst service is done so that's out of the way.
What!
Is Brett selling his already?

[Hitcher]

Moto Guzzi 1200 Sport?

[Hitcher]

Is Brett selling his already?

No no no no no no no. But some dude in Auckland who is moving to Australia and who can't afford to take his bikes is. Nice colour, that white.

[Ocean1]

You need to look at a KTM, the engineering will get your heart all fluttery and they haul arse with the best of them. Probably a 990 adventure (handles like a sprotsbike too) but I reckon the RC8 would be worth a look , it's apparently quite comfortable and rideable given it's sprotsbike pretensions.

Nix on the 990 Adv. No doubt more than capable on the road but there's better out there and I don't need a dualsport. The RC8 is bloody well done, I might consider one, if it fits. But then, y'know, "lead us not into temptation", and stuff.


Buells...why not go the bar riser way and adapt what you have, it's a bike after all, two wheels and a frame, the rest is ancillaries, customise, it'll be a great project!

Not quite that easy on the 12R. You can get clipons, but they don't fit well with the existing top triple clamp. You can get raised top clamps too, but either option fouls the fairing, which would be fookin' difficult to remount.


Moto Guzzi 1200 Sport?

Yes, had a wee google last night on exactly that topic. Would like to know more, including a good local (ish) agent.

[James Deuce]

Scooterazzi (http://www.scooterazzi.co.nz/) are local. They're on Ghuznee St and staffed by people from all over the Wellington Bikeshop scene of the last 20 years.

[Winston001]

You can't outclever us with your silly running-around-contemplating behaviour. :dodge:This whole thread is constructed with the devilish intent of damning by faint praise the kindly suggestions of others. You will then go ahead and purchase the ersatz HD thus proving your judgement was right in the first place. :girlfight:


I like it.

10 characters! :2thumbsup

[James Deuce]

Oh yeah. KTM Super Duke.

[Ocean1]

You can't outclever us...

You're right in that I believe one of the Buells would do the trick outstandingly well. What I'm asking is if there's an alternative that meets the same brief.

In some ways I'll be disapointed if some clever bastard can't suggest something as different and inovative that works as well. It'll mean either I keep the same bike for yonks, or I buy something less.

There's the novelty of a new mount, of course, vive le difference etc. But it's got to be good and it's got to fit the role.


Oh yeah. KTM Super Duke.

Yes, have had a brief play on one. Probably more... appropriate than an RC8, but I haven't ridden an RC8.

[Winston001]

Oh yeah. KTM Super Duke.

My thoughts exactly!

[nudemetalz]

Moto Guzzi 1200 Sport?

The Guzzi 1200 Sport isn't really a sprotsbike but more a Breva 1100 with bigger capacity and prettier face. Still quite heavy.
For what you're looking for, Ocean, it wouldn't really be suitable.

[Ocean1]

Aprilia Shiver.

Gets on. Wiggles around a bit. OK, feels a bit like a dirt bike, or an adventure bike. With street suspenders, (it’s a good 2” lower). And a splash of bling. The levers need to drop a bit, and the shifter needs to come up a bit to suit my size 12s, but ignore that. Hmmm won’t budge from sports mode… never mind, lets go. Sounds very nice, feels comfy wandering through suburbia, the steering is light, in fact the whole bike feels quite light. The feet feel a tad exposed, close to the road, and maybe a smidgeon forward. Probably just the extreme change from the Buell, though. And there’s too much pull-back in the bars. Easy fixed, that.

Onto the motorway. Oh, nice wee beastie, pulls well from 3k, builds nicely to 6k, flattens out a bit after that, but it’s very very slick. Change gear… click. Wow, the stuff of Swiss watches, impressive. Trundling up the motorway, playing with revs and gears. A firm squeeze of the front brake feels good, not the power of the Buell’s, but it’s well and truly enough, and predictable. And the back brake’s a match, certainly better than the Buell’s. Seems I’ve become a bit too used to worrying about revs only when approaching red line, and braking only when speeds get up beyond cruise mode. OK, this doesn’t have the undeniable stonk of the Buell, but it’s a sweet engine, and I can do gears. Nekid it might be, but there’s something a little unexpected, (design intent or otherwise) about the airflow around my head and shoulders. It’s there, but it’s not as much as I though there’d be at 100k, and it’s smooth.

Haywards hill. Yes, in spite of revs and gears it’s definitely not a 1200. Wind it up a bit to get that truck before the end of the passing lane… Not quite. Brakes. Ooerr, was that a hint of nervousness, there? Through Pauahatanui, certainly no problem pootling, could do it all day. Left, around Grays rd. Past a few cars, and then a reasonably clear run. Into a right, and a gentle scrape on the toe reminds me to get the balls of my feet on the pegs. Fine, they should be there anyway. Bit quicker, now. Left off a bridge, still turning, and feeling a little guilty about the revs I decide I’ll need to change up soon... Resulting in a second, firmer reminder re foot clearance as I try to hook my toe under the shifter. Damn, new boots too.

A horse float, now, and past we go, and nip in behind a car, braking firmly… Yup, definite shudder there, quite bad, doesn’t feel like a suspension issue either. Further around the inlet and a few abrupt test brakes confirms the initial impression. The brakes are quite good, the forks feel OK and the pair seem to work well as long as you squeeze progressively. Under sudden provocation, however there’s what feels like loose stem bearings or a bit of flex in the headstock, producing a harmonic. Maybe not, but it’s obvious, and that’s what it feels like.

Back over the hill and down the motorway, and it’s all very easy, I think I could ride the Shiver for a long time with no discomfort at all. The bike did nothing to damage my initial feeling of confidence with it’s general cornering competence, and the suspension gave me no reason to suspect I'd regret the lack of damping adjustment. It’s very nimble, in spite of what looked like a fair bit of rake. The back end behaved impeccably, and by that I mean I never thought about it, in spite of some mildly dodgy surfaces it never gave me cause to think about it. The engine’s a real sweetie, a new benchmark, perhaps, for how sportier types of V twins should be designed, built and managed. I think that the Shiver represents a fresh and refreshing approach to the mid-sized non-sprotsbike market. I like it.

I won’t be buying one, though. I don’t know what’s going on up front there, I hope, (and suspect) that it’s just some issue with that unit. I’m no prodigy, but it was pretty obvious, and I’d say Mr Aprilia probably has a few reasonably good ideas about such things. If that’s the case, and I ride a 1200 Shiver, (if and when they arrive) with similar characteristics to that 750 I could easily be tempted to buy one.

[hospitalfood]

um. there is an outfit in Oz selling a top yoke/triple clamp for the XB12R that would sort the comfort thing, = bars back and up an inch.

i just bought a shitty old dirt bike for much the same reasons that inspire you to consider options. $2500.00 odd for a road legal 650 enduro, it is sort of good but what it does most of all is inspire me to get a R1150GS or R1200GS. test road one and loved it.


hope that helps some, i love my XB12R and cannot really consider getting rid of it. so instead i plan to collect bikes.

[Ocean1]

um. there is an outfit in Oz selling a top yoke/triple clamp for the XB12R that would sort the comfort thing, = bars back and up an inch.

Yes, but the controls then hit the fairing at something short of full lock. And full lock on a Buell ain't a lot anyway.


i just bought a shitty old dirt bike for much the same reasons that inspire you to consider options. $2500.00 odd for a road legal 650 enduro, it is sort of good but what it does most of all is inspire me to get a R1150GS or R1200GS. test road one and loved it.


hope that helps some, i love my XB12R and cannot really consider getting rid of it. so instead i plan to collect bikes.

An excellent plan, one I hope to adopt in some shape or form.

[SARGE]

went for a pootle today with Big Dave on his...impressive bike.. was in the long grass at the Kumeu showgrounds.. he was up on one and it was spinning....


i'd have one...

[Ocean1]

Get thee behind me…

A different take on arguably the same hooligan section of the market the Buell’s aimed at. It does it well too. The ergonomics are near perfect for me, bar width, reach, peg height, everything. Instrumentation and switchgear is basic, consistent with KTM’s grubbier offerings, but what’s there is all you need, and it all works well.

I remember stalling the last one I rode, also. At and just off idle it’s exactly what you’d expect from an engine of this type, in that state of tune. There’s bugger all rotational mass, it’s rough, give it a few revs mate. Off we go.

The immediate impression is that of a bike optimised for something other than sedate suburban navigation. It’s not exactly twitching, but there’s more than a hint of ADHD there. The engine pisses around something wicked unless actually accelerating, and I quickly found I had to focus hard on precise throttle control. I wondered if a pound or so of lead in the flywheel might be in order. The first real fistful onto the motorway reveals it's true mission in life; a savage mid-range... which just keeps coming, change, change, change, OK, that’s enough of that. It’s not the delivery I’m used to, but the urgency is definitely there. That 990 has a couple more HP than the Buell, less torque, more revs. It’s a few KG heavier but doesn’t feel it, and it stands quite tall on very firm but damned effective suspension an inch and a half longer than most road bikes. I wonder if WP’s dirt history is as much a factor there as KTM’s. I’m obviously the wrong shape to take any advantage of whatever aerodynamic modelling went into the development of this machine, there’s a fair bit of buffeting on the face of my helmet.

Haywards hill provided no impediment whatsoever to the beast, other than the exercise of maintaining some semblance of legal velocity. Pay attention, dude. The brief pootling test through Pauatahanui is a clear fail, it don’t pootle any better than the Buell. Concentrate. Grays rd is more cluttered this time, just more opportunity to demonstrate the ample power, stomp it down, flick it out, squirt, back in, too easy. This bike is exactly the sum of it’s numerical description, you really can get a good idea of how it behaves from the spec’ sheet. The power is more than adequate, and the brakes are a match, powerful and progressive.

It’s short, and tall, and the geometry makes it very agile. I looked for lumps and ridges, to see if I could upset it, even straying off the shoulder at times. It remained unflappable, seemed to prefer it in fact. Perfect bike for rampant hooliganism.

I’m not sure I could develop the confidence in the KTM that I have in the Buell. It’s certainly extremely capable, and I’ve ridden with guys on Super Dukes enough to know they lack nothing by comparison in the handling stakes. The Buell, however has a poise I couldn’t find in the KTM, and I looked hopefully, and hard.

Would I own a Super Duke? Yes, it’s riding position makes it comfortable at slower speeds. I’d swap the Buell for it, for a while. They’re close in some regards, and I’d get a few weeks kick out of learning how best to make it tick. Unfortunately, very little else about the bike is suitable for low speeds. And it don’t pootle worth a damn either.

[Hitcher]

Pootling R Us.

Nice write ups!

[nico]

Strada is a fair bit faster bike. My PB for off road speed. It is a better tourer.
But I don't find it nearly as much fun as the XB.
the multistrada might be good for the purpurse but dam thats got to be in the running for the worlds ulgyist bike , but if ya on it you dont have to look at it . go for the buel they nice:laugh:

[Ocean1]

Pootling R Us.

Can't imagine a device much better suited for it. I presume by now you're exploring the full, unrestricted Shiver?

[Ocean1]

the multistrada might be good for the purpurse but dam thats got to be in the running for the worlds ulgyist bike , but if ya on it you dont have to look at it .

As it happens Wgtn M'cycles has one on the floor. I was offered a ride but didn't have time, p'raps next week...

[Hitcher]

Can't imagine a device much better suited for it. I presume by now you're exploring the full, unrestricted Shiver?

Oh yes. Three engine maps to choose from, but it's hard to see why anything other than "sport" would ever be selected. I need to do a bit of work on my upperbody strength. Speeds in excess of 180kmh require a bit more hanging on that that necessary behind the screen on an FJR1300, one understands...

Having a few more revs than 6,000 resulted in a much brisker run up the Watertower Hill Road than was achieved on the previous attempt.

I am becoming fascinated as to how the edges of my rear wheel are wearing.

[nico]

a guy a work has 1 mechanicly/practly it's good but dam ulgy and that clutch is loud he does cop alot of shit 2

[jrandom]

I am becoming fascinated as to how the edges of my rear wheel are wearing.

Will you come to a trackday now?

[Hitcher]

Will you come to a trackday now?

Do they have a Nanas Class?

[jrandom]

Do they have a Nanas Class?

Yes.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=90551

Just Do It.

[Ocean1]

Do they have a Nanas Class?

What times on the Watertower hillclimb constitute nana pace?

And don't tell me you didn't time it.

[Hitcher]

What times on the Watertower hillclimb constitute nana pace?

And don't tell me you didn't time it.

Three minutes quicker than Mrs H. And no, I didn't time it.

[Winston001]

Great write-ups Ocean, enjoying your exploration so keep on with the quest. Naturally I'm curious as to where a Multistrada fits with the others particularly as I considered it before buying the ST4. However not many around, none in Southland to test ride plus........er......they have been struck rather severely with the ugly stick. :shifty:

I've never ridden a Buell, a Super Duke, or a Shiver and one thing which interests me are the comparative rev range and torque. I say this because the ST4 surprised me with less torque at 3000 revs than expected and the motor really comes on song around 6000. From there through to 9000 is nirvana......

Plenty of torque from around 4500 so real world use just adapts around that.

Always thought twins of any ilk were low revving. My old Yam XS650 was and the R80 is - but great low torque.

[Ocean1]

I've never ridden a Buell, a Super Duke, or a Shiver

Seems likely a couple of phone calls might fix that.


and one thing which interests me are the comparative rev range and torque.

The claimed numbers ain't hard to find, but briefly the Buell's the odd one out, there. Very long stroke limits revs to 7k. The advantage is torque, bucket loads, from a tad over 2k. The Shiver revs way higher, and yet manages to be quite useful from 3k and doesn't misbehave burbling along at just off idle. The KTM's 990 makes lotsa hp but it's a pain in the arse unless you've got it under load. Don't know about the Multistrada, likely to be closer to the KTM than the other two, I'll let you know eh?


the ST4 surprised me with less torque at 3000 revs than expected and the motor really comes on song around 6000. Always thought twins of any ilk were low revving. My old Yam XS650 was and the R80 is - but great low torque.

I wouldn't get all tied up in numerical comparisons... leme put it this way: If you'd never seen an XB12 before and I made the tacho tell porkies to put the red line at 11k and called it an 800 most people would be well impressed. The quest for hp/cc is largely a sales device, and it often produces engines that are not easy to use.

[Big Dave]

shortshifters r us.

The attraction is partly not having to enter the disqualifiaction zone to keep the vehicle in its happy spot.

[jrandom]

Don't know about the Multistrada, likely to be closer to the KTM than the other two, I'll let you know eh?

The 1000DS motor pops, coughs, gags and lugs under 4,000rpm, and then from there to redline, it's as sweet and revvy as a sweet revvy thing.

I can't comment on the 1100, though, which is presumably what you'd be test-riding.

[jrandom]

Very long stroke limits revs to 7k. The advantage is torque, bucket loads, from a tad over 2k.

Speaking from the perspective of my sub-100hp aircooled IL4 1400, I must say that I think the torque claims about the Buell 1200 are a little overblown. The one I rode could best be described as 'solid enough, but rather wheezy'. Certainly not any sort of tarmac-tearing monster.

I honestly don't see the attraction in the XB12. I felt that the handling would be more likely to slow it down (and/or send it into a ditch) than speed it up, and that the engine was quite unsuited to a sportbike. It pops and bangs like a cruiser, then you get a reasonable shove that lasts for a couple thousand rpm, and then, woops, redline.

Perhaps I need to ride another one sometime to clarify matters.

I do look forward to taking an 1125R out for a spin when I get my road licence back. I wonder if it'll tempt me?

[James Deuce]

Thinking Laterally, and you'd probably need to coincide this idea with a trip to Auckland, but how about a BMW F650 or F800GS? Both of them are twin cylinder 800s btw, it's just that BMW are mental and think chicks won't be as threatened by the 650 number. Silly BMW.

Anyhoo, the 650 (800 you morons!) gets very good feedback from "sensible" people as a "do anything" motorcycle, without being an SV650 or Kawasaki Versys. Mind you, there's another thought.....

[Ocean1]

The 1000DS motor pops, coughs, gags and lugs under 4,000rpm, and then from there to redline, it's as sweet and revvy as a sweet revvy thing.


The quest for hp/cc is largely a sales device, and it often produces engines that are not easy to use.


Speaking from the perspective of my sub-100hp aircooled IL4 1400, I must say that I think the torque claims about the Buell 1200 are a little overblown. The one I rode could best be described as 'solid enough, but rather wheezy'. Certainly not any sort of tarmac-tearing monster.

In a straight line there's not much between my bike and a GSX1400.
But to be honest, straight lines ain't where it's at, dude. And the Buell's just more fun on the bent stuff, trust me.


I honestly don't see the attraction in the XB12. I felt that the handling would be more likely to slow it down (and/or send it into a ditch) than speed it up, and that the engine was quite unsuited to a sportbike. It pops and bangs like a cruiser, then you get a reasonable shove that lasts for a couple thousand rpm, and then, woops, redline.

A large number of people dissagree with you.

Personally, I wouldn't be so rude.

It's just, well, yer wrong is all.

[Ocean1]

Thinking Laterally, and you'd probably need to coincide this idea with a trip to Auckland, but how about a BMW F650 or F800GS? Both of them are twin cylinder 800s btw, it's just that BMW are mental and think chicks won't be as threatened by the 650 number. Silly BMW.

Anyhoo, the 650 (800 you morons!) gets very good feedback from "sensible" people as a "do anything" motorcycle, without being an SV650 or Kawasaki Versys. Mind you, there's another thought.....

The couple of wee rides I've had on BMWs haven't really inspired me to look much further. Will check 'em out, though.

...Does that mean the K1000R is, in fact, a 1300?

[James Deuce]

The couple of wee rides I've had on BMWs haven't really inspired me to look much further. Will check 'em out, though.

...Does that mean the K1000R is, in fact, a 1300?

No. But the K1200R is now a K1300R.

Does that help?

[jrandom]

In a straight line there's not much between my bike and a GSX1400.

Sounds about right.


A large number of people dissagree with you.

I know. It's kinda embarrassing. I'll ride another one as soon as I can, mmkay? Maybe it'll be, y'know, enlightening. Don't shoot me because I didn't like it. I expected to like it. I wanted to like it. After all, I don't know anyone else who's ridden a Buell and not liked it.


Personally, I wouldn't be so rude.

Oh, c'mon; it's not as though I just called your sister fat.

[Big Dave]

BMW X-country with the 650 rotax is an absolute wheelie monster. MOST surprising captain.

BMW Megamoto was my bike of 08.

[Ocean1]

No. But the K1200R is now a K1300R.

Does that help?

Saw one up paekak last week, thought then I should at least consider it. It IS an IL4, but I've ridden with a guy on one, and it impressed me.


I know. It's kinda embarrassing. I'll ride another one as soon as I can, mmkay? Maybe it'll be, y'know, enlightening. Don't shoot me because I didn't like it. I expected to like it. I wanted to like it. After all, I don't know anyone else who's ridden a Buell and not liked it.

I'll admit to a fetish for things different, and I like innovation for it's own sake. But they really do genuinely do what the label says. The few I rode when shopping did differ a fair bit, the one I bought happened to have a race kit but it also seemed a bit... crisper.

There's a wide range of styles that get a bike around corners, you've only got to watch the fast dudes to see that even quite different techniques work equally effectively. Some styles suit different machinery, simple as that.

As for the 1125... I haven't done that yet. I expect the engine to be a problem for my "style". I'd love to find different.

[Ocean1]

BMW X-country with the 650 rotax is an absolute wheelie monster. MOST surprising captain.

BMW Megamoto was my bike of 08.

Yeah.

This is getting to be a bit of a mission, y'know?

If I win lotto it'll be way easier.

[jrandom]

This is getting to be a bit of a mission, y'know?

Shhhh. Just go ride a Multistrada.

:msn-wink:

[hospitalfood]

I honestly don't see the attraction in the XB12. I felt that the handling would be more likely to slow it down (and/or send it into a ditch) than speed it up, and that the engine was quite unsuited to a sportbike. It pops and bangs like a cruiser, then you get a reasonable shove that lasts for a couple thousand rpm, and then, woops, redline.



it took me a little while to get used to the handling with mine.
as for the engine it has its good points as well as bad.
it seems to me that everyone i know who has a XB12R loves it to bits and does not want to part with it. which counts for something i think.

[Krayy]

...
I honestly don't see the attraction in the XB12. I felt that the handling would be more likely to slow it down (and/or send it into a ditch) than speed it up, and that the engine was quite unsuited to a sportbike. It pops and bangs like a cruiser, then you get a reasonable shove that lasts for a couple thousand rpm, and then, woops, redline...

I can see how some people would see that on a short test ride, as it's taken me a while to get used to the delivery and how to best use it. The way to ride a Buell through a corner is a mysterious and beautiful thing when done well (and I'm still learning).

1) Quick yank on the front picks just before entry and slight roll off on the throttle (even in long sweepers - you'll see why)
2) tuck crotch into tank to get your weight forward and push in a manly way on the inside bar to drop in to the corner
3) VERY gently start to wind on the throttle immediately after turn in (it does NOT like to be off throttle in a corner)
4) Push on the inside bar as you throttle on to increase lean angle and counter the rear pushing like a Lancia driver
5) Scream "Woooooo-hoooooooo" as the torque wave HURLS you out of the corner and the bugs start hitting your teeth due to the huge-wide grin on your mug
6) Repeat as necessary or until your cheeks hurt

[Big Dave]

Dude with GSX1400 and no licence complaining that an XB runs out of puff - get out!

Different strokes - I like mine long and at 72 degrees.

Others prefer inline fours, no wrong or right, just the rich tapestry blah blah blah.

I have the new Honda Varadero. Very favourable first impression. It's got jrandom length legs to it.
<img src="http://homepage.mac.com/david_cohen_design/.Pictures/misc3/vara2.jpg">

[Blackbuell]

I'll admit to a fetish for things different, and I like innovation for it's own sake. But they really do genuinely do what the label says. The few I rode when shopping did differ a fair bit, the one I bought happened to have a race kit but it also seemed a bit... crisper.

There's a wide range of styles that get a bike around corners, you've only got to watch the fast dudes to see that even quite different techniques work equally effectively. Some styles suit different machinery, simple as that.

As for the 1125... I haven't done that yet. I expect the engine to be a problem for my style. I'd love to find different.

Hi Ocean,
Ive had 2 XB12r & i thought they were just friken awesome & something different that other bikes are not like, i have had my 1125 for a few months now,it is everything a XB12 is plus more,i suggest you go for a ride on one
i think you will be impressed:yes:

[Hitcher]

I have the new Honda Varadero. Very favourable first impression. It's got jrandom length legs to it.

What have Honda got these priced at?

[vifferman]

What have Honda got these priced at?
$21950, according to their website....
That's Eggs Zachary how much I wouldn't pay for one.

Interestingly (or perhaps not :confused:) their horrible new DN-01 (a snip at a mere $23,950) is listed as a cruiser AND a tourer, but not as a commuter or scooter.
Four grand more'n a VFR800 (Sports bike and Touring)? *Cough!*

(Sorry - that should have been *FAR Cough!!*)

[Hitcher]

That's quite a bit more than a V-Strom.

[Big Dave]

What have Honda got these priced at?

A fair and reasonable question and one that I am glad you asked. Having said that - let me say this, value is a relative thing.

[Big Dave]

I think they are remiss for not including the DN-01 in all 4 categories.
It's a remarkable vehicle.

The varadero appears to be a firestorm dressed in an drizabone.

[vifferman]

I think they are remiss for not including the DN-01 in all 4 categories.
It's a remarkable vehicle.
Has the Big Dave piloted one?


The varadero appears to be a firestorm dressed in an drizabone.
;)
What an excellent description! :niceone:

[White Boots]

Hey Ocean i find my xb9s easier to ride through the city as it is a little revier then the xb12s. But wat ever you do mate, stick with the buells :yes: O and im sure the loud exhaust is part of the reason i havnt been hit yet.

[Big Dave]

Has the Big Dave piloted one?




He has. He is impressed and considers it a praiseworthy vehicle.
Transportation or recreation - the easiest one to ride - ever.

A harbinger.

[Scouse]

What about a Moto Morini Corsaro 1200cc 140hp situp like an XB12S

[Winston001]

The claimed numbers ain't hard to find, but briefly the Buell's the odd one out, there. Very long stroke limits revs to 7k. The advantage is torque, bucket loads, from a tad over 2k. The Shiver revs way higher, and yet manages to be quite useful from 3k and doesn't misbehave burbling along at just off idle. The KTM's 990 makes lotsa hp but it's a pain in the arse unless you've got it under load. Don't know about the Multistrada, likely to be closer to the KTM than the other two, I'll let you know eh?



I wouldn't get all tied up in numerical comparisons... lemme put it this way: If you'd never seen an XB12 before and I made the tacho tell porkies to put the red line at 11k and called it an 800 most people would be well impressed. The quest for hp/cc is largely a sales device, and it often produces engines that are not easy to use.

!0 Characters......

Now - are you saying that a Buell has the acceleration and torque of an 800cc bike? Brings the VFR800 to mind - excellent reviews but slightly underpowered if you are the type of rider who expects high acceleration.

Fortunately I'm no longer impressed by HP because most modern bikes have heaps more than the old bikes I used to ride and modern bikes perform well above our roads and speed limits. Even 250s. :yes:

Neither am I interested in revs, except from a design and torque perspective. High revs I associate with inline 4s, two smokes and numbing vibration/buzzing. So to discover my Duke redlnes around 11,000 was a surprise, but with watercooling I figured the Ducati engineers knew what they were doing. Plus the vibration is the acceptable (to me) twin throb. :wari:I've can't recall red-lining my bike and can't imagine needing to, plus the rev limiter stutters in about 10,000 so you have to want to get through that.

[Ocean1]

Protracted itemised ejaculations...

Sounds right. :rolleyes:

Particularly the bit about rolling on the gas on tip-in. They can get REALLY vague and scary if you overcook things and decide otherwise. In "Brisk" mode I like to get on the gas going in at about 3000rpm, aiming for full throttle at about 4000, just past the apex. By the time you're at around 6000 you're almost upright and changing up.

If i get bored with that I lift the whole rev-sequence 1000rpm.

Conditions permitting.


Hi Ocean,
Ive had 2 XB12r & i thought they were just friken awesome & something different that other bikes are not like, i have had my 1125 for a few months now,it is everything a XB12 is plus more,i suggest you go for a ride on one
i think you will be impressed:yes:

I had a wee feel of the 1125CR last week. I was dissapointed to find the ergonomics pretty much identical to the 1125R. Neither of them look to be any more ammenable to tweaking than than the XB12, so I can't see it fitting the bill. Still, I'll try one, eventually.


Hey Ocean i find my xb9s easier to ride through the city as it is a little revier then the xb12s.

Wouldn't surprise me, smaller is good for a lot of things.

Edit: And welcome, dude.

[Ocean1]

What about a Moto Morini Corsaro 1200cc 140hp situp like an XB12S

Don't know anything about them. Will look, though.

Cheers.


!0 Characters......

Now - are you saying that a Buell has the acceleration and torque of an 800cc bike? Brings the VFR800 to mind - excellent reviews but slightly underpowered if you are the type of rider who expects high acceleration.


What sort of 800cc bike? 110hp is gettable from a 600, just not in any engine I'd want to have in a road bike. The torque certainly ain't, though.

Like I said, I genuinely don't give a fuck for the numbers. If the power characteristics I wanted were the exclusive domain of a 125cc Stirling engine with a reasonable mass budget then that's what I'd have.

High acceleration means HP and low mass. Nothing else. Lots of HP in a new bike is exciting, for a while. About six weeks I reckon. The good times from a torque curve that very closely matches a bike's available traction through a corner lasts longer.

HP means revs. Other things too, but if everything else is optomised for hp/cc then you want a bunch of revs. Multiple cylinders means shorter absolute stroke, which allows more revs. V10 = (potentially) bulk HP. V twins are said to be more tractable, and a lot of very clever people with a lot of money have spent a lot of time trying to work out why. They're interested for competitive reasons, but if they ever manage to reproduce the full effect in an engine with more cylinders then Ducati's racing days are limited. I think they're safe for now.

[pzkpfw]

V twins are said to be more tractable, and a lot of very clever people with a lot of money have spent a lot of time trying to work out why. They're interested for competitive reasons, but if they ever manage to reproduce the full effect in an engine with more cylinders then Ducati's racing days are limited. I think they're safe for now.

Isn't that what the firing order (etc) of the new R1 is trying to do?

i.e. multiple cylinders but banging like a twin?

(No banging-twins joke intended.)

[BMWST?]

if you are considering bmw800,v stroms,varedeo(sp) there is one bike that many people rate as better than all those......Yamah TDM 900...$15000 last time i looked,lacking in some character compared to Buells,Ducatis etc...Bloody good allrounder from my own research

[vifferman]

He has. He is impressed and considers it a praiseworthy vehicle.
Transportation or recreation - the easiest one to ride - ever.
It's actually called the "Honda DN-01 Easy-Rider"


A harbinger.
Of doom? :confused:
The death knell for 'conventional' motorcycles?

[BMWST?]

so it seems to have a CVT trans....ffs how hard is it to move your hand and foot in a semi co ordinated fashion with very little effort involved.I spose someone will say the conventional trans is to intricate/complex to manufacture...not to mention you have a clutch in there too....

[vifferman]

so it seems to have a CVT trans....ffs how hard is it to move your hand and foot in a semi co ordinated fashion with very little effort involved.I spose someone will say the conventional trans is to intricate/complex to manufacture...not to mention you have a clutch in there too....
No, it's not CVT - it uses hydraulic clutches, so it's actually an electro-hydraulic automatic transmission, and MORE complicated than a typical m/cycle gearbox.
As for "how hard is it to change gears"? You have to realise a lot of Mrkns (and perhaps Yrpeens) have never driven a vehicle with manual transmission, so riding a motorcycle is a daunting prospect. Thus the market for a cruiser-styled bike with auto trans, combined braking system with ABS (like a car) is potentially huge. Lots of people who fancy a bike but can't deal with having to concentrate on changing gears for the first time will find this quite attractive (even if it is rather hideous).

[BMWST?]

No, it's not CVT - it uses hydraulic clutches, so it's actually an electro-hydraulic automatic transmission, and MORE complicated than a typical m/cycle gearbox.
As for "how hard is it to change gears"? You have to realise a lot of Mrkns (and perhaps Yrpeens) have never driven a vehicle with manual transmission, so riding a motorcycle is a daunting prospect. Thus the market for a cruiser-styled bike with auto trans, combined braking system with ABS (like a car) is potentially huge. Lots of people who fancy a bike but can't deal with having to concentrate on changing gears for the first time will find this quite attractive (even if it is rather hideous).

yes i can see what they are lookin at...its all we need ...scooter riders graduating to big bikes...
as with a lot of features on new er cars..its all one step closer to robots driving US

[Big Dave]

Well hey - people are different.

There are a lot of them that are not sports motorcyclists - not enthusiasts - they just want fuel efficient transportation.

Vehicles like the DN-01 offer the performance/safety/comfort/passenger aspects of a mid power motorcycle with the ease of riding of a scooter.

Rossi would hate it, Edna from Takininnipuna thinks it might be a blast.

The infinitely variable ratio transmission, economy and sports modes or a 6 speed triptronic are pointers to the future.

They will not be compulsory - but many will benefit from the availability

[BMWST?]

Well hey - people are different.

There are a lot of them that are not sports motorcyclists - not enthusiasts - they just want fuel efficient transportation.

Vehicles like the DN-01 offer the performance/safety/comfort/passenger aspects of a mid power motorcycle with the ease of riding of a scooter.

Rossi would hate it, Edna from Takininnipuna thinks it might be a blast.

The infinitely variable ratio transmission, economy and sports modes or a 6 speed triptronic are pointers to the future.

They will not be compulsory - but many will benefit from the availability

totally agree....perhaps not about edna but maybe edward....

[Big Dave]

'Sistas are doin it for themselves.' - Franklin

'I like to watch' - Gardener.

[Ocean1]

No, it's not CVT - it uses hydraulic clutches, so it's actually an electro-hydraulic automatic transmission, and MORE complicated than a typical m/cycle gearbox.
As for "how hard is it to change gears"? You have to realise a lot of Mrkns (and perhaps Yrpeens) have never driven a vehicle with manual transmission, so riding a motorcycle is a daunting prospect. Thus the market for a cruiser-styled bike with auto trans, combined braking system with ABS (like a car) is potentially huge. Lots of people who fancy a bike but can't deal with having to concentrate on changing gears for the first time will find this quite attractive (even if it is rather hideous).

All true of the Spyder auto also. If anything it's even dauntlesser, it's legally a car pretty much everywhere except Aus.

[Ocean1]

Isn't that what the firing order (etc) of the new R1 is trying to do?

Yes. Sort of. They've identified one variable in innertial momentum, different profiles in twins and IL4s. Honda had a go at the same variable years ago with what became known as the "drone".

Honda were then, and Yamaha are now probably the leading design authorities on high velocity harmonics in engines. Maybe they're onto it, but I'll believe it when I ride an R1 with a significantly V twin power characteristic.


if you are considering bmw800,v stroms,varedeo(sp) there is one bike that many people rate as better than all those......Yamah TDM 900...$15000 last time i looked,lacking in some character compared to Buells,Ducatis etc...Bloody good allrounder from my own research

I'm not, really. I'm interested in anything that does what the Buell does, but that's a bit more comfortable at commuting-type speeds.

[Ocean1]

Ducati Multistrada S.

A shortish ride it was, mostly suburban at that, still, a valid taste of what the bike might offer.

A wee look over the machine revealed no obvious quality deficits or questionable design elements. Although in passing I can’t understand why the trellis frame welds on any such iconic motorcycle can’t be as beautifully TIG crafted as the frame on any modern tredly. It sure ain’t no looker from the front quarter, but the key articulated screen feature dictates some of the fairing shape. No excuse for the lower panels though, can’t imagine how that got through any rational pre-market design review. The instrumentation is on the small side but the important bits are all there, and in keeping with the overall ergonomically “correct” theme it’s well arranged and well placed.

Gets on and has a feel. It feels remarkably similar to the Shiver, the bar/seat/peg relationship is very close, the whole lot raised an inch or two. These bars also could be a bit straighter to suit me, and here too someone’s rotated the levers up and the mirrors are looking at my knees . Also similar is the feeling of lightness, the mass can’t be unusually low but somehow it seems easy to move around. The seat feels very… supportive. That’d usually be code for “hard as a fookin’ plank” but in this case it turned out to be comfy for the 20min ride and gave the impression it’d be OK for touring.

Away we go. These Ohlin forks feel very supple, wonder if the front will dive… *bends down to look in mirrors*… BRAKES. Nope, feels fine, dips quickly but progressively stabilises nowhere near bottoming out. Second gear, and a fistful of throttle has the opposite effect, the front lifts sedately but beyond a certain point it feels like the front tyre is sucking onto the road. Try again… still 2nd, 4000rpm, full throttle, and sure enough the front lofts a foot. Too early into 4th gear, the screen shudders and the bars shake at 3000rpm, but there’s no question it’s trying, and at 3700ish it smooths out and starts to pull. Hard.

I eventually found a place to rattle through the gears, or the first 5 anyway. The claimed 97odd HP seems understated if anything, and it pulls bloody well from 4k all the way to the red with no lumps or hollows. It feels like a close match for the Buell and while probably not as quick as the Superduke it’s far more flexible, much easier to pootle around town with. On the second try around the bays I found enough space to get some idea about cornering. Almost. The fact is the bike’s capable enough, the suspension so subtle and the overall feel so planted as to give very little feedback as to where it’s rational limits might be. The riding position is familiar, but it’s quite a different sort of handling for me, velvety smooth, and there’s an impression that there’s a lot of room for me to learn on this bike.

Interesting. Very. All this, by the way, was two weekends ago, and I’m still considering whether the positives weigh heavily enough to entertain the possibility of having one of these in my gargre. I don’t really understand mate Jim’s allusion to orange afros and it’s likely that quite a few foibles and possibly some character flaws escaped me. I’d certainly want a good hour or two of close consultation with an appropriate bit of terrain before committing myself.

Oh, the joint between the tank and the lower panels is exactly where the bony lump inside my knee is. And it’s fookin’ ugly. Did someone mention the availability of alternative bodywork for these things?

[Buellluva]

Hey Ocean, just my two cents worth. Had a xb12r now for a grand total of 3 days, so I'm not overly qualified to talk yet, still in the honeymoon period. I've never had a bike that I have jumped on and felt so at home in the corners, went through the Kaipara coast highway, Coastesville-Riverhead, and Peak roads today ( all primo twistie territory), and I'm damn sure I never ridden them so fast. The weird thing is I wasn't really even pushing that hard, it seemed effortless. Up in Akl at KTM in Western Springs they have a XB12r set up with high rise bars, I never got to ride it, but sat on it and the bars moved cleanly from side to side with no hitting of the fairing. Stick with the Buells mate, I'm sure there's a solution (bar the pootling, they suck at that).

[Ocean1]

I've never had a bike that I have jumped on and felt so at home in the corners, went through the Kaipara coast highway, Coastesville-Riverhead, and Peak roads today ( all primo twistie territory), and I'm damn sure I never ridden them so fast. The weird thing is I wasn't really even pushing that hard, it seemed effortless.

Sounds like good times. I rode Katikati to Gisbourne Via Ruatoria a few days ago, Opotiki to Te Araoa was stunning, bay to headland to bay...


Up in Akl at KTM in Western Springs they have a XB12r set up with high rise bars, I never got to ride it, but sat on it and the bars moved cleanly from side to side with no hitting of the fairing. Stick with the Buells mate, I'm sure there's a solution (bar the pootling, they suck at that).

Haven't given up on that option, and even if there's a minor clash with the fairing I've worked out a fix that orta see it work fine. But like I said, when it comes to alternatives I don't know what I don't know, y'know? So I is educating m'self.

You enjoy that XB mate.

[Big Dave]

If I walk into the shed and see a black ZX14 (eg) there are physiological effects triggered by the sight. Pleasure centers release their enzymes, purely on the visual of the machine.

The multistrada is a very capable, balanced motorcycle. I walk into the shed and see external plumbing and a Darlek.

[Krayy]

By the by...Gunnyrob and I rode to Wairoa via the Waikaremoana road a couple of weekends back, and I every time I nicked past him on the dirt, the STT and me backslid into the distance while Herr Rob unt ze grosse Beemer became a speck in the mirrors.

Uly be damned, the STT is very capable on the C roads.

P.S. Note to self...never give it the wellie in 1st on the dirt...even saved highsides on gravel are not fun

[Ocean1]

If I walk into the shed and see a black ZX14 (eg) there are physiological effects triggered by the sight. Pleasure centers release their enzymes, purely on the visual of the machine.

The multistrada is a very capable, balanced motorcycle. I walk into the shed and see external plumbing and a Darlek.

If you walk into my shed you'll probably see all sorts of shit you don't like. A comfortable majority of consumer preference is either sculpted by clever-dickie marketing or herded by that almost osmotic tribal conformist psychology which we believe prevents our peers laughing at us. I’m less susceptible than some, first, I care not a jot if they laugh, and second, I are a enjeneer, I see beauty in functional perfection. A cunningly crafted bracket which does six different structural jobs and three functional ones makes me smile.

Having said that it’s true that a machine is more than it’s collected parts, no matter how cleverly designed they are. The Dalek, (the red one, the real ones were pieces of shit) is the result of a bottom-up design process, well thought out minor elements joined together in a way that works well. The Buell is the opposite, a top-down design process. That usually tends to produce more holistic, aesthetically pleasing results, sometimes at the expense of clumsy or overly complex detail work. Buell avoided that by the simple expediency of omitting most of the detail.

So, while I can cringe at the looks of the Dalek bodywork I'm aware that few "semi-naked" bikes succeed in the beauty stakes, (I won't upset anyone by naming names), and that wouldn't stop me buying what otherwise seems a functionally excellent bike. It would encourage me to explore options for corrective surgery, though.

Besides, it amuses me to think of the hoards of dedicated followers of fashion having to back up any crap talk with a wee walk with that Dalek.

[Ocean1]

Note to self...never give it the wellie in 1st on the dirt...even saved highsides on gravel are not fun

Meh. Find some decent knobblies. ;)

[Crisis management]

Glad you tried the Multistrudel, I thought you may find it interesting, if it had a 21" front rim I'd be riding one now. However I'm now saving my Ducati adventure bike experience for a modified monster when I can find one cheap enough, long may the recession continue....

What about the RC8, have you tried that yet?

[Ocean1]

Glad you tried the Multistrudel, I thought you may find it interesting, if it had a 21" front rim I'd be riding one now.

Is the conversion hideously complicated?


However I'm now saving my Ducati adventure bike experience for a modified monster when I can find one cheap enough, long may the recession continue....

Which one? And modified how?


What about the RC8, have you tried that yet?

I've resisted the temptation. Had a wee feel, nice machine, but it doesn't go anywhere near the minimum touring aspect...

Does it?

[Crisis management]

Is the conversion hideously complicated?



Which one? And modified how?



I've resisted the temptation. Had a wee feel, nice machine, but it doesn't go anywhere near the minimum touring aspect...

Does it?

Short answers:
Yes.
Suspension.......and lots of other stuff!
Define touring.

Longer answers:
I lust after Ducatis' and really enjoy the engine and ride quality however, the Multi really wasn't going to hack it as an adventure bike with the little front wheel and I wasn't going to fork out 14k for one and then start buggering around with the suspension and wheels. The 990 was a better fit as an immediate purchase ( I still reckon you should try an Adventure they really are awesome once you get used to standing and punting them along!).

The monster as an adventure bike....if I can pick up one cheaply enough and resuspend it with something of say, a 450exc, I can enjoy the drivetrain/noise/ducatisti stuff I like with the ability to travel the roads and terrain I like. Actually, I just like the idea of building a special and the combination of a snarling Vee twin and knobblie tyres really gets me going! I know there are the likes of the 990 SE available but a one off has it's attractions.

The RC8? It just seems like a neat idea to try one out, I doubt it's anywhere near a touring bike but KTM make good tools and this one I feel is very underated at present.




Ok, so maybe not the RC8 but its the interweeb so I'm allowed the odd outrageous suggestion. :cool:

[Ocean1]

The worlds fattest chook chaser, and the Bro's new toy.

And we ALWAYS share toys.

Besides, I'm still bigger.

This is a serious piece of kit, which you'd sort of expect, given that it's a) Churman, and b) BMW's top shelf / flagship adv machine. It's festooned with gadgets, some of which make sense, (but you'd personally probably not bother) and some which can be explained only by a massive overkill in the R&D budget. Like the super lightweight unobtanium front brake reservoir guard, located immediately behind the... other, (ubercomposite) front brake reservoir guard.

Interesting ride, it's very tall, obviously, but it seems to fit me OK. Apart from, (like almost everything else) too much pull-back in the bars. Lots of knobs and buttons on hand but most of them make sense, although I did have to be pointed at the starter. Starting it's interesting, thumbing the button and twitching the throttle produces a very healthy lurch to the right, you'd want to be carefull doing it on the side of a decent hill. Away we go.

Given it's capacity there's not a lot of stonk below 3500, over that, well, it's enough. Seems little point pushing it past about 6000, it makes more noise but no more power. Six gears to select from, but they're very very close together, most of the time you can chose from 4 to keep it in it's 3500 to 6000 sweet spot. It falls into corners at the merest hint, and the 2" cube knobs rumble as it leans. Conversely, it takes an act of concious input to pull it up again.

It's deceptively quick, when you get to that comfort-zone when you automatically check the clock I was mildly surprised to see I was well beyond legal. The huge KNOBS behaved quite differently to the more common dirt version, no discernible knob-walk, in fact they felt very much like "standard" touring rubber. On the gravel you bacame aware that the bike was more stable though. Weirdly, given the upright position, I noticed there was a bit more weight on my arms than I'd expect. May have just been the fact that my right wrist is playing up again.

All in all it couldn't be more different to the Buell, it really does feel like a big trailie. It's very comfortable and the bigish upright screen does a good job, the only wind at my shoulders. Given the time of year the screen rapidly got liberally plastered with livestock out around the lake, but it did tend to give the larger beasties just enough lift to guide dozens of them smack into my face.

It's quite buzzy, although it's not clear how much of that is the rubber. There's plans to change them for something a bit less agressive, given that it's not likely to get fully dirty, so it'll be interesting to try again then. Huge tankage, like "that'll be $56.00 please sir", although you'd expect to hear that only every 760k, apparently.

Interesting. A most excellent machine for prolonged touring and the odd off-piste shortcut.

Cool bike.

But not for me, thanks.