Orange light campaign

[candor]

Intersection Deniers
Thursday, 15 January 2009, 10:22 am
Press Release: New Zealand Police

Intersection Deniers, Or What My Staff Have To Put Up With Every Day
New Zealand Police National News Release
9:04am 15 January 2009
http://www.police.govt.nz/news/release.html?id=4674

Christchurch Police are frustrated by drivers who (perhaps genuinely) believe that they have not done anything wrong despite video surveillance showing that they have broken the law.

Sergeant Peter Daly of the Intersection Safety team says that every day his team are dealing with people who 'haven't done what we've seen them do.'

"Many drivers will admit that that they have done something wrong," he says. "I have greater respect for them than for those who will argue otherwise, even though the facts speak for themselves."

Sergeant Daly says that if as many people were as innocent as claim they are, his officers must be making up all these incidents and 'no one out there is breaking the law.'

In a classic recent example a driver was stopped and given a ticket at Blenheim/ Curletts Road after they failed to comply with a yellow traffic light. The driver then wrote giving his version of events.

The driver's letter in summary said;

He did not fail to comply with yellow light.

The car behind was so close he had to keep going.

The car behind also went through the light so it must have been legal to do so.

If he hadn't gone, the car behind would have crashed into him.

"I am very disappointed with the New Zealand Police for wasting my time, effort and money on a matter which should not have involved me. I did not break the law." the letter states.

After viewing the video the driver paid up promptly. The video shows the blue station wagon in the right lane, and there is no car behind it!

Christchurch Police put together a team of eight to specifically police intersections in October last year. Sergeant Daly says more than half injury crashes occur at intersections.

"This is not a campaign; my team are here to stay and this is what we do every day."

[PrincessBandit]

About time. How many drivers/riders have caused close shaves by doing this very thing yet managing to somehow "justify" their actions to show themselves in a better light when in reality they are just impatient prats.

[Hitcher]

Ban radar detectors. That will fix it.

[Swoop]

I'm without mine at the moment and my driving has suffered drastically. I'm spending more time looking for parked vans and Dunkin' Donuts customers rather than on the real dangers of "fucking cagers" and their antics on four wheels.

I think when I get mine back I will buy another to sit beside it and be twice as safe.

[Dealer]

what annoys me is the drivers who will pull out from behind you and pass you as you stop for the orange lights. they seem to think orange means 'go before it gets red'. and the traffic still going through red lights when yours turns green, too.

[ManDownUnder]

Ban radar detectors. That will fix it.

Yeah but that just means they get used my stealth. The real solution is to ban the use of radars! That'd render the detectors a waste of money overnight.

Totally in Police control too. Do I have to think of everything???

[rastuscat]

...............tee hee

[rastuscat]

How do I post a video on here? I have the full video, and the letter he wrote. It's a jawbreaker. How do I get them on the site?

[rastuscat]

what annoys me is the drivers who will pull out from behind you and pass you as you stop for the orange lights. they seem to think orange means 'go before it gets red'. and the traffic still going through red lights when yours turns green, too.


Orange means stop unless it is unsafe to do so. If the car in the lane next to you can stop, so can you, so if you choose not to, you've broken the rules.

[mattian]

Orange means stop unless it is unsafe to do so. If the car in the lane next to you can stop, so can you, so if you choose not to, you've broken the rules.

Ok, I have a question. If you are being followed very closely by a determined tailgater (we have all had one of those) up to a set of lights and, it turns orange. Its possible for you to stop safely but, are extremely worried that this twit behind you doesn't want to stop for the lights. Is this an acceptable defence?

[Gremlin]

How do I post a video on here? I have the full video, and the letter he wrote. It's a jawbreaker. How do I get them on the site?
check with your bosses first, you don't want to get in the shit for it.

For the vid, upload to youtube, and then link to it from here. KB no longer hosts videos, as youtube is widely used.

As for the defence about a car behind you, yep, it would work, but in this case, the driver was lying about any vehicle behind them, that was the key for them...

[MaxB]

Maybe we should think about putting video cams into cop cars?

If a scumbag knows what they just did is recorded they might not bother trying to lie their way out of it. Red light runners, dangerous drivers, drunks etc watch out.

Plus we get more material for those reality TV cop shows.

[quickbuck]

After viewing the video the driver paid up promptly. The video shows the blue station wagon in the right lane, and there is no car behind it!


Busted.
Good to see they are cracking down on this form of bad behaviour from the motoring public.

[LBD]

You want to try diving in Kyrgyzstan where we have the red, orange, green go system, as well as the green orange red stop.

Nobody stops until well after the red. Sometimes not at all, if no cross traffic coming. And if waiting on a red, will start forward when they see the other direction change to orange irrespective of what traffic is coming...Needless to say its Taxis only for me in town.

Got to say I am pleased to see the police acting on orange light runners in NZ

[klingon]

I overtook a car that was doing 40kph along New North Road the other day (two lanes, so I just changed lanes and sped up - no drama I thought). The driver obviously took exception to this and sped up and tailgated me. They even changed lanes when I did, so they could keep tailgating.

Coming up to an amber light, I saw a pedestrian who was about to step out so I started to slow down, light went red, I stopped. Car behind me went past me so close that I swear if I had put my right foot down instead of my left, I would have been hit.

[Funny thing is, the car was a white honda civic and the driver was a grey-haired old woman. I wish people would like my life easier by conforming to the stereotypes inside my head.]

I'm all in favour of a re-education campaign to remind people that they have to stop at amber lights if they can safely do so. If that re-education includes people getting ticketed, that's fine by me.

[Waxxa]

I'm all for the police cracking down on 'traffic light' runners. The situation is out of control in Auckland.

Even watching out for traffic in the 'traffic light shuffle' the amount of people that run red lights is unbelievable. Offenders should have their vehicles taken away for 28 days under a dangerous driving clause.

[dipshit]

I liked a clip on the news a while back when the Christchurch cops had a blitz on people turning into a one-way street yet failing to turn into their closest lane. You ended up with all these school mums in their SUV's absolutely gob smacked that they were getting a ticket. haha... it was classic!

I have always reckoned a hidden camera on a roundabout showing just how many people can't grasp something as simple as indicating properly would make embarrassing viewing on the evening news as well.

[Mystic13]

Ok, I have a question. If you are being followed very closely by a determined tailgater (we have all had one of those) up to a set of lights and, it turns orange. Its possible for you to stop safely but, are extremely worried that this twit behind you doesn't want to stop for the lights. Is this an acceptable defence?

lol... you wish. My mum stopped her car for a yellow and the guy behind drove into the back of her. He then had a go at her for stopping for the yellow. On his insurance claim form he stated it was her fault because she stopped suddenly when the light turned yellow instead of driving through.

It seems he thought there was plenty of time to go through before the red.

Another issue in Aucks at the moment is the number of buses jumping the green. They accelerate off expecting to hit the whiteline and accelerating as soon as the light turns green and a few are well past the white line when the green comes. This combined with shooting a light is a recipe for disaster.

Personally I'd like to see the light go yellow before it goes green so you know to put the thing in gear and get ready as they do in many countries overseas.

[klingon]

I liked a clip on the news a while back when the Christchurch cops had a blitz on people turning into a one-way street yet failing to turn into their closest lane. You ended up with all these school mums in their SUV's absolutely gob smacked that they were getting a ticket. haha... it was classic!

I have always reckoned a hidden camera on a roundabout showing just how many people can't grasp something as simple as indicating properly would make embarrassing viewing on the evening news as well.

It's funny how every time one of these laws gets some publicity, everyone thinks it's a new law that's just been brought in. It happened with the roundabout signalling, and also with the one where people have to turn into the nearest lane. I bet it happens with the orange lights, too.

"But officer, that's a new rule! I've been driving for 20 years and the rule was always speed up to go through the orange light!"

So why do I remember these from my drivers test many (mumble) years ago? The rules have not changed. People either forgot about them or never understood them in the first place. It's scary to be sharing the road with those people!

[Max Preload]

I liked a clip on the news a while back when the Christchurch cops had a blitz on people turning into a one-way street yet failing to turn into their closest lane.

And into multilane roads. They need to really hammer this home.


I'm all for the police cracking down on 'traffic light' runners. The situation is out of control in Auckland.

It most certainly is, but with such large delays between the red for one direction and the green for another, I do wonder... chicken or egg.


It's funny how every time one of these laws gets some publicity, everyone thinks it's a new law that's just been brought in. It happened with the roundabout signalling, and also with the one where people have to turn into the nearest lane.

That's because NZ drivers are poor because they're not held to a high enough standard in the first place, so they all think they're good drivers.

[Tone165]

Here in Aussie there is a 4 second delay between one light turning red, and the other turning green!

result...

Orange light means speed up..

And ppl run red lights if it was orange when they first saw it!

I drive a truck that takes a bit to stop, and I admit that I do run the odd orange lite (and feel a bit guilty) but I am still amazed to see the 5 cars behind me come thru as well!

I heard (and do not vouch for validity) that lites were removed from some place in Germany....so drivers had to check that intersection was clear rather than see a coloured lite...the result was reportedly no further intersection crashes!!!!!

Remove ppls NEED to think, and you also deminish their ABILITY to think!!!!

[klingon]

...I heard (and do not vouch for validity) that lites were removed from some place in Germany....so drivers had to check that intersection was clear rather than see a coloured lite...the result was reportedly no further intersection crashes!!!!!

Remove ppls NEED to think, and you also deminish their ABILITY to think!!!!

Apparently this has been done in a few places. The one I heard about was a Dutch town where they removed all the traffic lights. Crashes in general went down by a lot, and pedestrian injuries in particular were reduced.

I do wonder if it would work here though, since so many Kiwis seem to be either completely oblivious to what's going on around them, or to think that "might is right" and they only have to give way to something that's bigger than them.

Here's an article on the subject: http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,2143663,00.html

[mattian]

" Offenders should have their vehicles taken away for 28 days under a dangerous driving clause."

Thats an excellent idea! a month without wheels would certainly put things in perspective for car drivers (and some bike riders for that matter)

[Howsie]

Another issue in Aucks at the moment is the number of buses jumping the green. They accelerate off expecting to hit the whiteline and accelerating as soon as the light turns green and a few are well past the white line when the green comes. This combined with shooting a light is a recipe for disaster.

If this occurs where there are bus lanes quite often there is a separate Bus light that goes before the green to allow the bus to get off first. Usually this is wasted as the next stop is quite often less than 100m away. Took me a few goes to work this one out also when i first moved to Auckland.

Go in the empty bus lane on your bike next time and watch for the white "B" next to the green for the bus, this way you dont have to split and you get way infront of the traffic! :woohoo:

Howsie

[Daffyd]

I have always reckoned a hidden camera on a roundabout showing just how many people can't grasp something as simple as indicating properly would make embarrassing viewing on the evening news as well.

They couldn't do that. It would catch out too many cops!

[JMemonic]

It's funny how every time one of these laws gets some publicity, everyone thinks it's a new law that's just been brought in. It happened with the roundabout signalling, and also with the one where people have to turn into the nearest lane. I bet it happens with the orange lights, too.


Sure it wasn't a rule, it was noted as a courtesy when I did my licence. The orange light thing though scares me, nearly been rear ended many times due to stopping and the car behind is speeding up.

[McJim]

Unfortunately the lawmakers (not the enforcers) have stuffed up again and brought subjectivity into the equation. It will be down to OPINION in many cases. Was it safe to stop wasn't it? You can't really prove either way scientifically if it's a borderline case. On occasion with my children in the car I have gone through an amber light because between the light changing from green to amber only gave me enough time to perform an emergency stop and this would have caused seatbelt bruising to my children - not life threateneing maybe but needles nonetheless.

It's the same with borderline subjective noise and borderline speeding (since most manufactures will admit to a +/- 10% error in speedos).

By targeting the borderline cases the police are sending a clear message.

"The legislation was created to allow us to do our jobs and target dangerous driving. In order to do this a line was drawn in the sand in each of these situations and it is therefore an offence to travel through and amber light, exceed the posted speed limit knowingly or otherwise, exceed 95dB or 100dB dependent on your vehicle. By pursuing the subjective nature of these offences we have found that we can increase revenue collection by an enormous amount and will therefore continue to penalise road users under these subjective rules as the subjectivity precludes any realistic comeback. We may lose the odd case but the majority will alow us to attain our revenue targets"

Now I don't hate the police but if they cut these things really close to the bone then that tells me that I have hit the nail on the head.

[JohnR]

Apparently this has been done in a few places. The one I heard about was a Dutch town where they removed all the traffic lights. Crashes in general went down by a lot, and pedestrian injuries in particular were reduced.

I do wonder if it would work here though, since so many Kiwis seem to be either completely oblivious to what's going on around them, or to think that "might is right" and they only have to give way to something that's bigger than them.

Here's an article on the subject: http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,2143663,00.html

Lincoln Road should be the trial area!:headbang:

[PirateJafa]

Thats an excellent idea! a month without wheels would certainly put things in perspective for car drivers (and some bike riders for that matter)

Works nicely for those of us with multiple vehicles. I'd be able to get busted one a week and still be on the move.


Lincoln Road should be the trial area!:headbang:


Not TrafficLightGP Road, surely? :O



On a more serious note guys, aren't there already perfectly good laws covering most of these? Careless/Dangerous/Typical Driving?

[rphenix]

And into multilane roads. They need to really hammer this home.


Yes definitely sometimes I think I'm the only one who noticed that rule in the rode code :oi-grr:

I would also love more enforcement (towing in particular) for the buggers who park on transit lane's when the lane is supposed to be clear.

[rastuscat]

Unfortunately the lawmakers (not the enforcers) have stuffed up again and brought subjectivity into the equation. It will be down to OPINION in many cases. Was it safe to stop wasn't it? You can't really prove either way scientifically if it's a borderline case. On occasion with my children in the car I have gone through an amber light because between the light changing from green to amber only gave me enough time to perform an emergency stop and this would have caused seatbelt bruising to my children - not life threateneing maybe but needles nonetheless.

By targeting the borderline cases the police are sending a clear message.

Now I don't hate the police but if they cut these things really close to the bone then that tells me that I have hit the nail on the head.

Interesting. I frequently stop people for orange lights who tel me they couldn't stop because the car behind them was too close. Trouble was, I was watching and there either wasn't a car behind them at all, or it was a long way back.

You also mentioned revenue targets. Let me tell you that if it was about revenue we'd be doing a lot of things that target easier revenue. We'd be sitting outside schools to get the $400 for restricted licence breaches. We'd be enforcing the lane driving, there is so much crap lane driving that would be a an easier revenue maker then staking out a set of traffic lights.

In terms of borderline cases, we don't even go there. We only deal with those who could have stopped easily within the time given. It makes me laugh when someone is stationary behind a limit line (the white line), waiting for a light to change. When it goes yellow they accelerate to use the yellow phase as a turning phase. We stop them and they argue that they couldn't stop. WHAT ? They WERE stopped, they accelerated after the light changed.

The most exciting red light I ever had to enforce was K Rd and Upper Queen Street. The intersection has long since been redesigned. We used to have to sit on the South West corner, watching the lights for traffic coming up the hill from Upper Queen St. They crash the red, then we'd have to get the R80RT lights and sirens going and get across the red light before the K Rd traffic headed off. It was a rush, and thank God none of us ever came to grief. The intersection was re-engineered, and the problem moved.

WE base our targeting on the speed, length of yellow phase, and distance the vehicle is into the intersection when the light goes red. If the vehicle is only a car length (3 to 4 metres) across the limit lines when the light goes red, at 50 km/h they were maybe 50 metres back when the light went yellow. To argue they couldn't have stopped is complete tosh. All the intersections in Christchurch that we deal with, we have a minimum 4 second yellow before red. One exception is Pilgrim Place, where the yellow light is only 3 seconds. That's due to Pilgrim PLace beinmg very short, and nobody getting up to more than 30 - 40 before the lights.

Last point; lots of people will tell you they are good drivers. Then they do stupid things in their cars, and ask you to believe their driving skill was insufficient for them to comply with the law.

Yellow light laws aren't new. But our focus on them is.

[Dean]

i have never gone over the speed limit or ran through red lights............................................ .................................................. .....

[FJRider]

Ok, I have a question. If you are being followed very closely by a determined tailgater (we have all had one of those) up to a set of lights and, it turns orange. Its possible for you to stop safely but, are extremely worried that this twit behind you doesn't want to stop for the lights. Is this an acceptable defence?

NO. It is the responsibility of the following vehicle to be able to stop in half the clear distance of road ahead. If they run into you its their fault. Feel safer now...

[breakaway]

As much as I love stopping for yellows, there's always some tool right on my back tyre. Also, whenever I kill myself stopping for a yellow, I always see 2-3 cars cross the intersection AFTER I've come to a stop. What a joke.

[Dean]

As much as I love stopping for yellows, there's always some tool right on my back tyre. Also, whenever I kill myself stopping for a yellow, I always see 2-3 cars cross the intersection AFTER I've come to a stop. What a joke.

fuckin cagers man

[FJRider]

On a more serious note guys, aren't there already perfectly good laws covering most of these? Careless/Dangerous/Typical Driving?

You can never have too many laws... right..???:chase:

[FJRider]

i have never gone over the speed limit or ran through red lights............................................ .................................................. .....

Can GN's actually do that...:laugh:

[rastuscat]

This is the letter and the video that started all this.

VERY IMPORTANT - READ THE LETTER BEFORE WATCHING THE VIDEO

I stopped the guy and wrote him a ticket for going through a late yellow light. He then wrote in the attached letter.

Then we went and watched the video, and couldn't believe it was the same thing.

http://nz.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6aM9JziD_k

He is in the blue Nissan station wagon. In the video look for the car following him.

After all this, in future don't wonder why the Police person who deals with you might have some degree of skepticism about your explanation for what they have accused you of. The culture of denial is alive and well in this country.

[Dean]

Can GN's actually do that...:laugh:

hahaahhhahaa to right mate :laugh::laugh:

[Dean]

Can GN's actually do that...:laugh:

maybe in a 50kph zone wohoooo:rockon: lol

[Dean]

maybe in a 50kph zone wohoooo:rockon: lol

actually no i cant speed or break the limit in a 50kph zone and i never have and never will i ride responsibly:yes::yes::yes:

[mattian]

If you are indeed a man of the law Rastuscat I wouldn't be getting too friendly with Mr. Youngbiker16. I am referring to a previous post he made about men in uniform making him hard.

[Dean]

hey mattian!!! i do not know what you are talking about i dont get a hard on by men in uniforms maybe youre hearing what you want to hear

[Ixion]

Interesting. I frequently stop people for orange lights who tel me they couldn't stop because the car behind them was too close. Trouble was, I was watching and there either wasn't a car behind them at all, or it was a long way back.

..

Pray keep on stopping them.

Much of the "I couldn't have stopped safely.." is self induced, because people race up to the green flat tit. If you are approaching a light, and it is green and has been for a while, y' don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that it's probably going to change, So, start slowing down. Then when it DOES go orange, stopping is easy.

I usually approach a stale green on a trailing throttle - and have no troble stopping. The "guy behind me couldn't have stopped " is solved this way to. If you can stop, then he can ! After all, he's behindb you.