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wkid_one
21st September 2003, 20:25
How to Sit on a Sportbike by Lance Keigwin

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"Please, tell me how to get my knee down." I’ve heard it a hundred times. As a veteran instructor with STAR Motorcycle School, and a track day organizer who’s put on many dozens of track events and novice schools over the last several years, I talk with a lot of riders. Questions from riders are pretty varied. But the most common questions are certainly about riding position, weight shifting, and how to scrape knee pucks.


Let’s start by asking what’s wrong with just sitting on the bike, centered across the seat and tank? Well, the answer depends on how fast you intend to corner. The fundamental notion of "hanging off" is that it allows you to keep the bike more upright, and that in turn provides a better tire contact patch. A better contact patch means better grip through corners and under acceleration. So it follows that with two riders traveling the same speed through the same corner on the same line, the rider who is centered on the bike has to lean the bike farther than the one hanging his weight off the bike. And the "centered" rider will have more difficulty managing the drive out of the corner because of his more severe lean angle and less desirable contact patch.

Okay, let’s say you’re convinced that using your weight when cornering is wise. Where do you begin? Let’s break it down:


Swivel around the tank

Contrary to what a lot of beginners think, the movement of the lower body (legs and buttocks) is not a shift off the seat and away from the bike but rather a rotation around the tank. It’s a swivel. (This does not necessarily get your knee much closer to the ground -- let’s save that for later). Instead, focus on rotating hips and legs so that the forward leg corresponds to the turn direction. I.e., when setting up for a left corner, the left leg and knee are forward on the tank; the right inner thigh is pressed firmly against the right rear of the tank.

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Lead with the shoulder

"Point the way" with the left shoulder for a left turn. Right shoulder for a right turn. Remember the rotation!

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Head and chest position

Where’s most of your body weight? From the waist up, right? So use that body weight to your advantage. Your head and chest should not be centered over the tank. Position your head over your wrist. If you had mirrors, you would be trying to kiss the mirror!

Keep elbows down and tucked in

This is not flat track. Your elbows should be tucked in and kept low, with forearms parallel to the ground. This will help you stay relaxed on the bike -- it is harder to death-grip the handlebars and be stiff in the arms and shoulders. It will promote weight forward and chest down. And it positions your arms for the easiest and most effective steering input (nearly perpendicular to the angle of the forks). In a left corner you may find that your left elbow touches the tank or upper fairing, and your right elbow rests on the tank corner or even your thigh near the knee.


Look through the corner

Sure, everyone knows about target fixation and its danger. But it’s only dangerous if you’re looking where you don’t want to go! Find reference points to focus on to help you drive through the corner, and ones to aim for on the exits. Keep your eyes up, looking down the track and through the corners. This will also help you build confidence in speed, as everything slows down when you look farther out.

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Be smooth and use anchor points

The bike is happiest without you on it. You force it to do unnatural things and fight its impulse for self-correction. One of toughest things for a bike to manage is jerky movement, whether it’s your braking and downshifting or your body weight moving or bouncing around. So, as you smoothly reposition your weight on the bike for an upcoming corner, use anchor points to "become one with the bike". That way suspension is handling one weight, not the bike doing one thing and you doing another. Use your "outside" heel (right heel in our example) on the foot peg heel guard, and press your outside thigh against tank. These anchor points are also useful to help turn the bike with your strong leg muscles. Stabilize your upper weight over the tank. Do NOT strangle the clip-ons. As you practice these techniques with the bike on a bike stand, see if you can let go of the handlebars while in your cornering position. If you cannot, then you’re using the clip-ons for support and that’s bad. Instead, use your stomach, back and leg muscles to support your weight. Have someone press on your back so you can feel the muscles you need to use to resist.

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Stick that knee out

So, how about that knee? Well the truth is, if you want to use your knee as a gauge to measure lean angle, you have to stick it out. I mean, STICK IT OUT! Try this: stand up and imagine you’re facing 12 o’clock. Lift your left heel high, leaving your toes on the ground. Pivot your left leg on the ball of your foot so that your knee is pointing to 9 o’clock. That’s what you want. Can’t do it, or can’t do it in your leathers? Then you’re going to have to limber up or fix those leathers. In time, as your speed and lean angle increase, you will touch your knee down with much less effort. But the best way to get started is to exaggerate your motions. It is almost always the case that riders feel they’re leaning or hanging off far more than they really are. When they see pictures of themselves they often say, "Oh he caught me when I wasn’t practicing."

<IMG alt="" src="http://www.motorcycleridesinamerica.com/image/Picture5.jpg" border=0>

There are obviously more techniques to use to help you steer, lean, and apply muscles and weight to improve cornering speed and skill (weighting foot pegs, counter-steering, throttle and brake control, among them). But practice the basics first and get them right. Remember, practice doesn’t make perfect, it makes permanent. Learn to do it right early!




Lance Keigwin owns and operates Keigwins@theTrack (target=_blank>http://keigwin.com/ (http://keigwin.com/)) a company dedicated to safe and fun track days. Lance is also a veteran instructor with Jason Pridmores STAR Motorcycle School and a partner at Hare Racing, a performance motorcycle shop in Sunnyvale, Ca.

Dave
22nd September 2003, 08:38
No Shit!

Antallica
22nd September 2003, 09:16
Ooh, I'll read this later :)

Sharkey
22nd September 2003, 10:04
Makes me realise how valuable a bit of advanced rider training would be. Being better than one needs to be on a dialy basis has got to be good for safety.

Also, the chicks dig it.... :rolleyes:

Duke of Rogan
22nd September 2003, 10:08
very informative stuff, and very useful for someone like myself who is learning with every ride.

actually, before even reading this, on Saturday I worked out that the tank guard is there for more than just proctecting the tank from scratches!
By getting my upper body over the tank, with bum slid to back of the seat, I found cornering soo much easier and relaxing.
Even managed to scrape my left foot a couple of times (first one gave me a fright).
Now I can finally make use of some of that rubber on the outside of my tyres! :niceone:

bluninja
22nd September 2003, 11:41
Duke, scraping your toes?? Used to do that on the ninja; cos I had&nbsp; throttle mostly shut off when tipping through the corner. If you are accelerating (gently) through the corner, then it sharpens the steering geometry of the bike, increases ground clearance, and reduces the chance of transmission lash making the back tyre breake free when you do decide to tap the power on.&nbsp; I suppose it could also be your foot position on the pegs.

Having said that the SV scrapes pegs, brake, or clutch lever when it's right over...knee would be on the floor if I chose, but I've only had these pucks for 3 years:D

TTFN

Motu
22nd September 2003, 14:12
This guy will never get it right - forgot to swivel his hips eh?

wkid_one
22nd September 2003, 22:03
PMPL :rockon: :rockon:

SpankMe
22nd September 2003, 23:14
Forget about getting your knee down, try getting your elbow down.

<center><img src="http://www.svrider.com/may2002/images/photo.jpg"></center>

SPman
23rd September 2003, 07:17
I normally get my knee down this way........

wkid_one
23rd September 2003, 08:26
That's called the 'Si Technique'&nbsp; :p :p :p

bluninja
23rd September 2003, 10:35
Tsk tsk, the Si technique involves coming off the lowside....that one is the advanced Si technique, which I haven't mastered yet. As you can see this technique is best performed on a track:D

TTFN

wkid_one
23rd September 2003, 12:21
Actually if you look closely - it looks like both the Novice and Advanced Si Techniques were performed in unison on that hairpin....

Coldkiwi
23rd September 2003, 13:13
'pivoting' is an interesting concept. I've done a bit of reading on cornerign by notable individiuals and never heard of pivoting before. It does kinda feel right though. I've Tried it the last two days after reading this article but requires the inside knee to be stuck out as the ZX-6r fairings get in the way when it juts forward.

wkid_one
23rd September 2003, 13:39
Fucked if I can do it on the right hand side - the left - no worries - the right, just feels awkward.......hmmmmm

bluninja
23rd September 2003, 13:55
Pivoting doesn't do it for me.....I thought that was how so many people ended up twisted (and bitter?) and unable to extract knee from fairing to get it near the floor. I guess it's just the language he uses...but how does one pivot the hips one way and point with the shoulder the other way without the aid of a chiropractor?

WKID, try going round roundabouts till it touches down...or you get arrested:D

TTFN

&nbsp;

wkid_one
23rd September 2003, 15:54
Can touch it down&nbsp; - it just doesn't feel as natural as the left hand side&nbsp;- weird - it was actually the right I got down first........

&nbsp;

SPman
23rd September 2003, 18:08
Aaah - you naturally lean to the right.

SPman
23rd September 2003, 18:10
ie

wkid_one
23rd September 2003, 19:08
Originally posted by SPman
Aaah - you naturally lean to the right.

That would explain why I keep going in circles!

750Y
23rd September 2003, 21:35
i get my knee down every sunday morning! but that's just me grovelling to the mrs to be allowed out for a ride...

Coldkiwi
23rd September 2003, 21:45
750, would it help if a bunch of us went past your place at these times at full noise so you could get feign a glazed look on the eyes, walk out in a daze and claim you had to go ride because it was the Call of the Wild??

:D

750Y
24th September 2003, 06:54
lol, well i just might get BOTH knees down then...

Dave
24th September 2003, 13:24
I get a knee down when i have too many beers and fall off the couch reaching for the remote.:beer:

Lou Girardin
24th September 2003, 15:48
That would be a little elbow down action too, wouldn't it Dave?

bluninja
24th September 2003, 21:12
Dave. So why do you have to reach for the remote? Doesn't someone bring it to you? And why don't you have the remote with you in the first place? :D

Dave
25th September 2003, 10:00
That would be a little elbow down action too, wouldn't it Dave
Knee,elbow then face,depends how many beers i've had. (kinda like riding a bike)
Your right though, I'd better get more control over the remote.
I've been thinking about the chips they implant into dogs now and wondering if i could get a remote implanted.

bluninja
25th September 2003, 10:06
Hey Dave, this new employee you want...do they have to be able to do paperwork in triplicate?:Offtopic:

TTFN

Sharkey
2nd October 2003, 10:26
What does TTFN mean??

Anyway, this guy's got the technique...

wkid_one
2nd October 2003, 10:49
TTFN = ta ta for now

&nbsp;

Check the vides out

http://www.superbikemagazine.co.uk/content/videos.htm

&nbsp;

wkid_one
7th October 2003, 20:12
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Dave
8th October 2003, 08:37
The Panda didn't look too happy.

wkid_one
10th October 2003, 22:08
in case you couldn't see

SPman
10th October 2003, 22:45
Ahh that one the Fudget Rentals Suzuki "Swift", they seem to have changed the riders head....

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Motoracer
22nd October 2003, 19:13
lol