Spitty crash lands

[nudemetalz]

Bugger !!!

The Spitfire had an undercarriage failure on landing at Masterton yesterday meaning she won't be there this weekend :(

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4820003a11.html

[Swoop]

The damage looks very minimal. Prop is gone but the wings and fuselage look good.
The radiators will be gone, I'm guessing...

Bother!

[Bass]

The damage looks very minimal. Prop is gone but the wings and fuselage look good.
The radiators will be gone, I'm guessing...

Bother!

If the engine was turning when it hit the deck, it will be an engine rebuild.
A Merlin overhaul costs about 1/4 of a mill these days.
The owner of the spit, Doug Brooker, is a keen contest aerobatic pilot. His aerobatic machine lives just across the way from our old dunger. He will not be very happy at the moment.

[Sully60]

The damage looks very minimal. Prop is gone but the wings and fuselage look good.
The radiators will be gone, I'm guessing...

Bother!

On telly the rad nacelles looked to be relatively unscathed.
Still using a wooden prop? I would've that that would be something that could be 'modernised' without detracting from the aircraft's heritage, heh what would I know?
Maybe not now though:doh:


If the engine was turning when it hit the deck, it will be an engine rebuild.
A Merlin overhaul costs about 1/4 of a mill these days.
:gob::thud:

[86GSXR]

Bugger. Not again. Was that the one Sir Tim crashed a way back? Insurance company won't be happy.

[ManDownUnder]

Wow - I feel sorry for all involved. Happy to hear the pilot got out ok but there'll be a few heavy hearts over the next little while as the full extent of the damage gets revealed...

[Swoop]

If the engine was turning when it hit the deck, it will be an engine rebuild.
A Merlin overhaul costs about 1/4 of a mill these days.
Insurance claim...

Was that the one Sir Tim crashed a way back?
No. Different plane.

Still using a wooden prop? I would've that that would be something that could be 'modernised' without detracting from the aircraft's heritage, heh what would I know?
Wooden would be cheaper than aluminium, I'm guessing.

[nudemetalz]

For those who can't be bothered looking at the link....

<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v677/turbo_NZ/?action=view&current=786012.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v677/turbo_NZ/786012.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

[Bass]

Insurance claim....

I hope so. I can't imagine Doug not being insured. However, I believe that insurance for these old warbirds is fearsomely expensive for obvious reasons and this won't help his premiums one iota


Wooden would be cheaper than aluminium, I'm guessing.

Not sure.
Our beast also has a wooden prop and the problem these days is finding someone who is qualified to work on them.

[ZK-Awesome]

I believe that wooden props are used as opposed to metal as on impact they will shatter, which puts less stress on the engine, which may make repairs cheaper.

That Beech 1900d that landed at woodbourne showed a similar thing with its props (though I think they were carbon props or something):

http://www.aviationreviews.com/blog/img/2007-06-19_111029.JPG

[nudemetalz]

That is one spectacular picture.
Apparently did bug'rall damage to the 1900D.

[Bass]

I believe that wooden props are used as opposed to metal as on impact they will shatter, which puts less stress on the engine, which may make repairs cheaper.

That Beech 1900d that landed at woodbourne showed a similar thing with its props (though I think they were carbon props or something):


I think you are largely correct.
However, whether the engines are turning or not makes a big difference and so if a belly landing is anticipated, they try and get the engines stopped just before impact.

I watched the Bandierante that lost a wheel near Fielding some years ago land at Palmerston wheels-up. It as probably the best landing I have ever seen - really smooth and gentle. He had the props stationary as he came over the fence and the aircraft (I was told) was flying again 2 weeks later.

They took all the passengers off that one into a hanger and cracked a crate of Champagne.

[MisterD]

However, whether the engines are turning or not makes a big difference and so if a belly landing is anticipated, they try and get the engines stopped just before impact.

I think, from the fact that all four blades are gone, we can deduce that the prop was turning in this instance...

[Hitcher]

I had a wee cry when I saw that photo in the paper this morning.

[nudemetalz]

I think, from the fact that all four blades are gone, we can deduce that the prop was turning in this instance...

Most likely just idling or even windmilling as he cut the engine just before impact, perhaps.

[Bass]

Most likely just idling or even windmilling as he cut the engine just before impact, perhaps.

They normally feather them completely (if they can) so they don't windmill

I think you will find that the first blade strike starts the engine rotating (slowly) again, hence the rest being gone. Especially if they are "snap-off" rather than "bend". Even so, you lot may be right, and he didn't manage to get them completely stationary. Would have had a fair bit on his mind right about then and it must take huge presence of mind, to time the shutdown and feathering exactly right.

They don't get much chance to practice it, eh?

[nudemetalz]

Looking at the pic again, Bass, it looks like what's left of the props is pointing forward so does look either feathered or in coarse pitch.

[Bass]

Looking at the pic again, Bass, it looks like what's left of the props is pointing forward so does look either feathered or in coarse pitch.

My bad. I was looking at the photo of the Beech and thinking turbines when I wrote that.
However, you point out an interesting conundrum.
Although the Merlin was only about 6.5 to 1 compression ratio, I believe that was still more than enough to prevent the engine windmilling at landing speeds (although someone may well correct me on that one).
The logic is therefore indeed, that the engine was running when she hit.
If it was running and he was on approach, he would have selected fine pitch.
Why then, as you so correctly point out does it appear to now be fully coarse?

I have no idea, about the details of the pitch control on one of these. I wonder if it's possible that residual oil pressure pushes it coarse when the engine is shut down.

[ZK-Awesome]

The herald is reporting it was an undercarriage failure on landing:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10552113

But we must remember that this gossip and speculation is often more damaging than it is helpful, as tempting as it is. I cringe when people start speculating on forums about how they think it was "pilot error" etc. (trying carefully not to contradict myself here)

More info will appear in the news no doubt that must also be taken with a grain of salt. Perhaps some more info will appear here in a few days:
http://www.caa.govt.nz/Weekly_Accident_Reports/weekly_accident_reports.htm

[Swoop]

I have no idea, about the details of the pitch control on one of these.
I was of the belief that there was only a fine/coarse selection available.

It appears a bit ironic. Tim Wallace did the same thing when his first spitfire was being ferried south to Wanaka. This had just been ferried down from Auckland...

[nudemetalz]

Not really saying pilot error or anything like that, just discussing interesting info about the Spitfire and how it works.

Undercart failures were common in WW2 with the Spits, esp when they started using them on the aircraft carriers as Seafires until it was strengthened.

The only thing I'm gutted about is that I won't see it perform tomorrow !! :(

[Bass]

I was of the belief that there was only a fine/coarse selection available.

..

Really?
I'd like to hear more - that would be quite unusual.

[Pussy]

All Spitfires, apart from the early Mk I (which had the De Havilland variable pitch prop, as opposed to constant speed) had propellers with wooden blades.
The ironic thing is most Spitfires flying today have Hoffman built props on them (made in Germany).
Even the Griffon powered Spitfires had wooden blade props

[marty]

That is one spectacular picture.
Apparently did bug'rall damage to the 1900D.


only about 1.5 mill worth

[Swoop]

A picture of a Spitfire and a motorbike.

Just for the hell of it.

[Colapop]

The plane pictured was due to take part in a mock attack on Wellington at lunch time. I saw two planes fly over and that was it. Disappointed really... :(

[Trudes]

Those two planes that you mentioned Col flew over my house about half an hour ago.... quite low, very fast, sounding AWESOME!!!! Love to know what they were..... anybody?

[Swoop]

Really?
I'd like to hear more - that would be quite unusual.
The prototype had a completeley fixed 2-bladed prop without any pitch control whatsoever.
I'm sure the earlier versions had fine/coarse without the ability to feather.
Much later versions???

[Swoop]

Bugger me!
Another crash landing (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10552160)... with a few more PAX involved!

[Bass]

The prototype had a completeley fixed 2-bladed prop without any pitch control whatsoever.
I'm sure the earlier versions had fine/coarse without the ability to feather.
Much later versions???

I may have misinterpreted what you wrote.
I was thinking in terms of coarse/fine without constant speed.
Were you meaning coarse/fine without feathering?

[Pussy]

The prototype had a completeley fixed 2-bladed prop without any pitch control whatsoever.
I'm sure the earlier versions had fine/coarse without the ability to feather.
Much later versions???
You're right, Swoop. The De Havilland prop (metal blades) was a fine/coarse variable pitch, all the Mk I onwards had Rotol constant speed props (pitch is variable... is taken care of by the governor) with wooden blades. Non feathering.

[nudemetalz]

The aircraft that flew over were the P-51 Mustang and a P-40 Kittyhawk (in place of the aforementioned Spit).
They looked and sounded fantastic !!!

I shall get a heap of pics tomorrow at Masterton and share on here all the good ones :)



only about 1.5 mill worth
Okay maybe a bit more than I read.....

[Swoop]

Were you meaning coarse/fine without feathering?
Yes. Just going through the book collection ATM for cockpit photo's.
What more would a good '30's aviator want, instead of a fixed prop? (Tiger Moth, etc!)
Fine/coarse... Luxury!

[nadroj]

This is of the crashed dual cockpit spit taken b4 xmas.

[pritch]

Saw that on the news last night. They said there were no witnesses as that part of the runway is normally hidden from view.

Ah well, that makes me a little less annoyed with myself for not getting off my arse and going to the show...

[SPman]

So, it'll be a race to see which Spit gets into the air first, this one rebuilt, or Brendon Deeres LFMk 9, which was transported to Ohakea on monday for final assembly and test flying......
http://rnzaf.proboards43.com/index.cgi?board=Airshows&action=display&thread=8312

[wayne708]

Those two planes that you mentioned Col flew over my house about half an hour ago.... quite low, very fast, sounding AWESOME!!!! Love to know what they were..... anybody?

Hi Trudes, I believe they sent the Kitty Hawk and the
Mustang over, they did a low level run over the airport as well. Will be checking them out in Masterton tomorrow, might see some of you there.

[nudemetalz]

So, it'll be a race to see which Spit gets into the air first, this one rebuilt, or Brendon Deeres Mk9, which was transported to Ohakea on monday for final assembly and test flying......
http://rnzaf.proboards43.com/index.cgi?board=Airshows&action=display&thread=8312

Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice !!!!!!!!!! :drool:

[SPman]

Will be checking them out in Masterton tomorrow, might see some of you there.
Lucky bastard !!!