Great news - Maori only beaches in NZ

[Tank]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10552397

and if you white bastards dont keep of - the NZ g'ment will chase you off with a $5000 fine.

Fucken brillant.

[tri boy]

If I leave a brown turd behind, can i come back?

[Crazy Steve]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10552397

and if you white bastards dont keep of - the NZ g'ment will chase you off with a $5000 fine.

Fucken brillant.

Sounds fair....:laugh:

Crazy Steve..

[Bren]

Yeah...I am pissed off about it...heck they will start with a few east cape beaches to start off with, then over time they will start taking beach after beach since a precedent has been set....

We are all supposedly "one people"...aint that what they try to preach?...until it is better off for the maori to play the race card! .....Reverse Racism is what it is!

[awayatc]

So we will have maori only beaches ......


Therefor we will undoubtedly have whites only beaches as well?

Now where did i see that before......?

[Fatjim]

I'm sure the Moari who "own" the beaches will only be leting their own Maori in.

[Indiana_Jones]

...Reverse Racism is what it is!

WTF is reverse racism?

There's only racism.

-Indy

[one-speed]

Yee bloody haa
Well done

[Dave Lobster]

Beaches... next it'll be pokey machines, prisons and TAB that are maori only.

[XxKiTtiExX]

Already had "Dover Samuels" (yes you read right, Dover fucking Samuels) abusing the hell out of myself and my partner (while I was 7 months pregnant mind you) all because we were on the beach. :confused: We were then informed that we weren't allowed there as the "grass" , "sand" and right down to the "waters edge" had suddenly become private property and we weren't welcome to use the beach. Nice being told to go back to where we came from eg: "camping ground." We did inform him that we had been living in said area for the past 2 years with no issues what so ever over us walking on or swimming at said beach. I wish I had of recorded it. Tried being civil with him at first. But eventually you give up being nice when someones still hurling abuse at you. Don't think he liked being sworn at back because the following day animal control turned up in regards to our "savage pitbulls." :laugh: (savagely lick you to death mongrels)

What is New Zealand coming to? Can't even go to the beach without being verbally abused and told to leave. And very soon it will turn into fines. What a fucking sick joke.

[Slyer]

This is racism against non-maoris and I hate this shit.
I've got no idea how this sort of thing can be allowed in this day and age!
Nobody should special treatment due to race, ever.
Have a read of my thoughts here...
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?p=1627335#post1627335

[Indiana_Jones]

Should ban all Maori from local honky areas.

oh and ban rag-heads from Jew areas

......Here we go again....

-Indy

[yungatart]

'....Shouldn't be a problem as 91% of East Cape residents are Maori....)

We spent our holidays in Te Kaha..probably 91% of holidaymakers are NOT Maori...if I can't walk on the beach, go swimming or fishing, then there is not much point in going there.
I will go somewhere else for my holidays next year..and that place can have my money instead....

[firefighter]

Maybe it's the "whites" turn to now occupy land? lol.

So, how can they prove your not entitiled to be there? I mean, I have a bout a fingernails worth of maori blood in me, so i'm a white dude, but have some maori in me, so can I visit the racist beaches? Because really, the "maori" that will own said beaches have more pakeha blood in them than "maori", so who is to say that they can say I can/can't go there over me telling them to fuck off?

lets be real, it does state "New Zealanders", but we all know it means non-maori....

[yungatart]

Now that could be a plan FF, Mstrs was mistaken for "one of the locals" while we were there...
they obviously weren't looking at his lily white legs lol!

[Wally Simmonds]

Just to play devil's advocate here, would you still feel the same if it were say owned by a spanish family/company who only wanted spanish people on it?

Technically, if it is private property....

[Big Dave]

What about Traditional folk who want to manage their resources the way it's worked for a lot longer than us whiteys have been doing it.

If reckon if you went to the big kahuna and said - dude, mind if I have a dip - all would be cool anyway - just don't set up a sand mine eh bro.

[Marknz]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10552397

and if you white bastards dont keep of - the NZ g'ment will chase you off with a $5000 fine.

Fucken brillant.

April 1st?

No?

Fuck!

[Indiana_Jones]

Technically, if it is private property....

Technically yea, and that's fine.

But if said I'm gonna have a white only beach or golf course I'd be hung out to dry before you can say "check it out bro, two moons"

-Indy

[Magua]

Extension of customary fishing rights/traditional resource management is fine, but barring people from the beach and fines are rediculous.

I thought the point of the seabed and foreshore act was to nationalise the coast for the benefit of every New Zealander.

[Slyer]

If it were private property then they can be racist assholes all that they like but it shouldn't be private property.

[JimO]

there will probably be a rise in maori kids drowning then

[Subike]

Go sit on a beach where shell fish live just as the dawn is comming,
Watch all the little yellow things rushing around ,
Think "MMM, thats all the paua, kinners, scollops, musells, crabs dissapearing"
Then watch all the yellow things dissapear off to their takaway bars,
Latter in the day watch all the white things flock to said takeaway spots,
Gather their avrodisiac feed for the nights slapper from yellow things.
Go home sit in front of magic boxes
watch the propogander called the news
and all you will hear is

"Fucking maori want to stop everyone using the foreshore and coast line"

as they munch on their musells, paua. crab sticks !

Not thinking about the market they create with their indifference

[MSTRS]

We spent our holidays in Te Kaha......

And what a poor pathetic joke the campground has become. Paranoia tells me that this is what the locals (Maoris) want. There is not a single beach/roadside casual camp that is not marked "Fuck off honky - reserved for the bros" (what the signs mean, anyway).
The few organised campgrounds would appear to have their days numbered. The one at Te Kaha has been there (privately run) for I don't know how long and was bought by the local Runanga (whatever that means) and an entire family has been put in to run it. Incompetent, uncaring and arrogant is what these people are. We will not go back there. And as I said, I suspect that this is part of a long term plan by the wider tribe/s of the region.
Shame, as the entire East Coast is a beautiful place. It's isolation, undeveloped nature and the uninterrupted settlement by Maori mean it is a little different from the rest of coastal NZ. I resent the 'removal' of my right to visit and enjoy the splendour of the place as we all have been able to do since a road made it accessible.
Watch out for toll booths east of Opotiki and north of Gisborne....
And shortly thereafter , passports and visas at the border control

[JimO]

Go sit on a beach where shell fish live just as the dawn is comming,
Watch all the little yellow things rushing around ,
Think "MMM, thats all the paua, kinners, scollops, musells, crabs dissapearing"
Then watch all the yellow things dissapear off to their takaway bars,
Latter in the day watch all the white things flock to said takeaway spots,
Gather their avrodisiac feed for the nights slapper from yellow things.
Go home sit in front of magic boxes
watch the propogander called the news
and all you will hear is

"Fucking maori want to stop everyone using the foreshore and coast line"

as they munch on their musells, paua. crab sticks !

Not thinking about the market they create with their indifference


if you watch the coastwatch programme you will see our brown bro's seem to be right up there with taking to many

[Usarka]

Just legalising the current "tax" thats often hoisted upon visitors by large intimidating locals.

[SlashWylde]

What about Traditional folk who want to manage their resources the way it's worked for a lot longer than us whiteys have been doing it.

Remind me again how well the Moa resources were managed and by extention (or should I say extinction) the Haast eagle?

We were given a good speil at MIT last semester about Maori traditional values and great emphasis was placed on Kaitiakitanga. I couldn't help thinking that this term is a politically motivated revisionist modern invention.

I think banning any ethnic group from having access to certain NZ beaches is ultimately bad for advancing racial harmony across the country. We already have kebab shop owners inflaming racial tensions in Invercargill, do we really need this too?

[fatzx10r]

it's just fuckin bullshit, no cunt's telling me what beach i can and cant go on. and if they try to slap a fine or i'll feed them to the shark's :lol:

[Quasievil]

The Sky is falling the sky is falling

[Fatjim]

Actually. its rather plesant here in the hutt.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Actually. its rather plesant here in the hutt.

And Oriental Bay is only 15mins away. All welcome there!

[blossomsowner]

there are already places up northland where it is unsafe to park a car to use the beach or boat ramps. I have seen the local people damage property of any outsiders and also be threatening towards them. Sure hope it doesn't go that way with the local tribes enforcing things themselves.

We spent time at Tolaga bay last year and it was fantastic.........friendly people and great place................would hate to see that sort of atmosphere ruined.

[laserracer]

And they wonder why everyone is fucking off to aussie
BEACHES ARE FOR EVERYONE NOT JUST 1 RACE OF PEOPLE:angry2:

[Big Dave]

Remind me again how well the Moa resources were managed and by extention (or should I say extinction) the Haast eagle?


I have no idea.

My opinion is tempered by the way Australia did not learn enough about indigenous husbandry of the land before the culture was destroyed.
It's only in the last 30 years or so that we learned about 'Bush Tucker'.

For that reason I like the idea of areas of traditional natural resource management.

Kinda like a backup plan, because we know governments never get it wrong either hey.

[Crasherfromwayback]

For that reason I like the idea of areas of traditional natural resource management.

Kinda like a backup plan, because we know governments never get it wrong either hey.

Dunno 'bout that BD...as much as I hate to say it...it's normally Maori getting busted for raping the live stock at most of our beaches.

[firefighter]

Dunno 'bout that BD...as much as I hate to say it...it's normally Maori getting busted for raping the live stock at most of our beaches.

Yes, take heed of this all of you, my time in the Navy I tell you what, mostly maori (not all) but mostly were the ones pillaging, oh and the asians and islanders, just the way it is don't get pissy unless you have worked amoungst it and you have real experience to back yourself (no one-offs either)

Lets face it, a maori only beach is just as racist as a maori only rugby or league team......it's bullshit, how dare anyone say you can or cannot enjoy New Zealand's natural resources or certain areas because of your colour, or because of your race, let alone fine you for it- what a fucken joke.

Apartied/South Africa anyone? I've read Nelson Mandela's book, and this is exactly the same thing, blacks being fined for going to the wrong place without permission, how can ANY of you possibly, really, justify this disgusting shit, I hope the United Nations are watching this.

[Shadows]

It seems to me that most of the idea is geared towards restricting commercial use. Having seen what commercialisation has done to some areas I don't have a serious problem with that.

And we all hate camper vans here, don't we.

The protection of sacred sites has its place too. So long as this is for specific sites and doesn't involve denying access to, or the use of, massive expanses of coastline. Common sense must prevail and all that.

I actually prefer the rahui approach to the conservation of fisheries whereby take is restricted only for long enough to allow the resource to recover, and I completely support them. I fish a lot and will always respect a rahui, but not so much the reserves locked up for ever in legislation that seem to be popping up all over the place thanks to the fucking greeny extremists.

As long as average Joe can still go to the beach and have a swim and catch a feed, all is good.

[Patrick]

... mostly maori (not all) but mostly were the ones pillaging, ...

+1..............

Its huge in these parts. The Paua are always undersized. I have never seen a legal sized paua around here in the fisheries swoops I have assisted at.

"They just don't grow as big here in the Naki as in other parts of the country..." we are told (by the poachers and the fisheries fellas...).

What a load of bullshit.:angry2:

The paua are taken at sizes of the recently old 50c piece... no chance of regeneration, let alone the joy of breeding...... the poor buggers....

[Trouser]

It seems to me that most of the idea is geared towards restricting commercial use. Having seen what commercialisation has done to some areas I don't have a serious problem with that.

And we all hate camper vans here, don't we.



About time someone read the article.

It is about restricting commercial use.

[Trouser]

Love the headline "Maori deal will 'close access to public beaches'" leaving out, for commercial uses.

[MSTRS]

About time someone read the article.

It is about restricting commercial use.


I have...and it says A new deal will enable Maori to ban other New Zealanders from some coastal areas and impose fines of up to $5000 if they don't obey. The Ngati Porou deal is the first under the contentious Foreshore and Seabed Act, and will allow some East Cape beaches to be closed to public access.
Just where does that mention 'commercial'?

And what's with this? Amohaere Houkamau, Te Runanga o Ngati Porou chief executive, confirmed hapu had identified a number of wahi tapu areas that would be recorded in the court papers, but would not reveal the locations.......................However, Houkamau added, in some situations it might not be appropriate for a camper van to park up at a wahi tapu site. "There are enough beautiful beaches on the coast which are not wahi tapu."

"If we don't tell them which ones, we can suit ourselves everytime a honky sets foot on any of the beaches" ? Come on, at least be open about which sites are special...

[Grizzo]

How can you claim to own land in this manor, especially in such a young country.
Maori apparently where the first to come from other Islands and settled here, but does that give you the right to claim ownership?
That said, the same mentallity was adopted by the poms all around the globe.

I dont think anyone can claim to own land in this way purely because how do we know who has been there in the past and who will end up living there in the future.

[dipshit]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10552397

Cool. So are all the other beaches going to be "whites only" beaches..???

[Curious_AJ]

gosh... this "maori only beach" thing is the mos racist thing I've heard in a LONG time... this pisses me off... fucking racists.

[Curious_AJ]

Cool. So are all the other beaches going to be "whites only" beaches..???

of course they won't be!!

[Slyer]

I demand at least 1 beach where no maoris are allowed to go if this has to go ahead.

[Curious_AJ]

I personally don't understand why anyone has to have "more rights than the others" when it comes to the shores... why can't everyone use them?? It's totally unfair if only some people are allowed to use certain beaches!

[MSTRS]

Just cos you've never been to such a beach, and perhaps never would, makes no difference. It is a removal of a right that all NZers have had since 'whenever'. Don't you want your kids to enjoy the same freedoms that you do/did?
Thin edge of the wedge, peoples.

[balans]

So what criteria is there for detrmining if you are Maori enough to visit this beach?

How do you proove your Maori ancestry to gain access? Jews in NAZI germany had to wear a star of david, Gays a pink triangle, etc.... will New Zealand be adopting a similar system?

Also is it possible that a mixed race family won't be able to visit this beach together?

Example: One parent is say 1/4 quarter Maori and the other Parent is not Maori, and any of their offspring are only 1/8 Maori and therefore not Maori enough to visit this beach?

Racial segregation is bullshit, New Zealand is supposed to be a more progresive modern society than this.

[Big Dave]

Dunno 'bout that BD...as much as I hate to say it...it's normally Maori getting busted for raping the live stock at most of our beaches.

I wonder who would be harder on them - Fisheries - or if it was the Marei's?

http://www.montanainspectors.org/

[bully]

so with my fishing rod ill need a shot gun?
its gunna start a war!

[Patrick]

Cool. So are all the other beaches going to be "whites only" beaches..???

Shit no!!!!! You can't ban other races from beaches. That would be racist! Hang on a Mo....??????

[MotoGirl]

This rubbish doesn't surprise me in the least. This is New Zealand, after all. Did everyone suddenly expect the reverse racism to disappear? I can't see it happening in my life time.


And they wonder why everyone is fucking off to aussie
Isn't it funny that New Zealand's majority race is the one leaving for Australia? Hell, if this keeps up there may not be any non-Maori left to ban ;). If you consider the special treatment that Maori receive here, there's not much incentive for them to leave. Why would they go to Oz and be treated like everybody else?

Good on the ones who refuse the special treatment and stand on their own feet, I say! :niceone:

[Slyer]

There is no such thing as reverse racism.

[Swampdonkey]

I can show you plenty of beaches up round here ,where access is blocked by wealthy land owners (NZ and foreign) . Give acess rights to the foreshore back to maori and fellow New Zealanders...

[MSTRS]

If you consider the special treatment that Maori receive here, there's not much incentive for them to leave. Why would they go to Oz and be treated like everybody else?

Good on the ones who refuse the special treatment and stand on their own feet, I say! :niceone:

There are '000s who do go to Oz etc. They do stand on their own 2 feet. They go to escape the bullshit here. Can't just be, staying here. The bullshit etc is so entrenched that they are just dragged in and down by it. You heard what they have to say about their cuzzies who stay here? No mana...just greed and hate.

[skidMark]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10552397

and if you white bastards dont keep of - the NZ g'ment will chase you off with a $5000 fine.

Fucken brillant.


Does this mean mission bay will stop being so dark on the weekends?

[FROSTY]

Can someone explain to me in Plain english how this is at all possible.
Please explain how a 40 year old male born in New Zealand to New Zealand parents can have less rights in New Zealand than another New zealander of New zealand parents just because the second dude happens to have brown skin

[XxKiTtiExX]

gosh... this "maori only beach" thing is the mos racist thing I've heard in a LONG time... this pisses me off... fucking racists.

But AJ, apparently its not racist. You're racist for thinking its racist :lol:

[XxKiTtiExX]

Can someone explain to me in Plain english how this is at all possible.
Please explain how a 40 year old male born in New Zealand to New Zealand parents can have less rights in New Zealand than another New zealander of New zealand parents just because the second dude happens to have brown skin


One word.....


"white"

I'll say no more.

[marty]

Watch out for toll booths east of Opotiki and north of Gisborne....
And shortly thereafter , passports and visas at the border control
as long as the benefit stops at the border control ..........

[Blackshear]

Gees guys, sure is a good thing I have Maori blood in me.
I'm fucking sick of this PC country. They're ruining our gorgeous way of life.

[Slyer]

Gees guys, sure is a good thing I have Maori blood in me.
I'm fucking sick of this PC country. They're ruining our gorgeous way of life.
Who is being PC?

[Big Dave]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4822522a11.html

>>"Our custom in this country has been that the average New Zealander can enjoy a picnic lunch on the beach and take an appropriate and reasonable proportion of seafood - that's not a major issue," she
told the newspaper.
But in some situations it may not be appropriate for a camper van to park up at a wahi tapu site, she said.<<

[Blackshear]

Who is being PC?

The whole, 'Let's be non-racist and give Maori people extra priviledges because they're brown skinned.'

I think that's what I meant.

[speights_bud]

What about Traditional folk who want to manage their resources the way it's worked for a lot longer than us whiteys have been doing it.

If reckon if you went to the big kahuna and said - dude, mind if I have a dip - all would be cool anyway - just don't set up a sand mine eh bro.


... i dont think it quite works like that from what i've seen...., have been places where the road is signposted as 'beach', only to come to the end of the road and find it barricaded off and then have a 'local maori man' start going off his nut about it being his land and we cant go in that road

[Slyer]

It's not really anything to do with being PC, maybe being pushed over is.

[Indiana_Jones]

There is no such thing as reverse racism.

Thank you!

-Indy

[speights_bud]

I can show you plenty of beaches up round here ,where access is blocked by wealthy land owners (NZ and foreign) . Give acess rights to the foreshore back to maori and fellow New Zealanders...

Access is very different from ownership, if i was a farmer on a coastal area i probably wouldn't want every man and his dog wandering through my paddocks and livestock/crops to get to the beach (where they have permission to be), however if they gain other access to the beach which they rightfully can use and enjoy without tresspassing over private land then that's awesome, and yes this may only be achieved by walking along the beach to the desired area using the beach itself for access.

Something else to consider,
if i was walking to the shops (where i have permission to be) and it was faster just to climb your back fence instead of walking around the block, then walk through your property and hop over the front fence and across the road to the shop, and back again,

wouldn't this make you a little unimpressed?

I'm definatly against the 'segregation' of beaches as such, every New Zealander should have equal rights and be allowed to use a beach. However giving ownership to a specific race is bullshit, but as usual some are more equal than others. :mad:

My 2c worth anyway

[James Deuce]

Things will swing one way and another until a balance is struck. Think of it as continuing negotiation after a 170 year hiatus in talks.

This ain't no Israel and the East Cape ain't no Gaza Strip and with any luck we'll end up a mature inclusive society with no hint of us and them. It will take time and patience though, and making a knee jerk reaction every time an alternative to the status quo is proposed or put in place, probably after a LOT of public consultation (which nobody ever bothers to engage in in NZ, so we get "surprised" by this sort of thing every damn time) then it doesn't speak well of our maturity as a society or as individuals.

I bet they're not talking Takapuna Beach or Lyall bBy, or New Brighton Beach, so what's the big deal? I rather suspect that Swampdonkey has made a key point. How do we stop wealthy coastal landowners from barring access to coastal areas for ALL "average" Kiwis? Make it wahi tapu bro! I haven't met a Maori without a cunning plan or three yet.

[Owl]

I'm definatly against the 'segregation' of beaches as such, every New Zealander should have equal rights and be allowed to use a beach. However giving ownership to a specific race is bullshit, but as usual some are more equal than others. :mad:

I think everyone should be entitled to use a beach too, however I don't think this is the case currently.
I could be wrong, but it's my understanding that there are plenty of beaches that cannot even be accessed by boat legally.

[scrivy]

I hate racial shit.
If you were born here, you should have a right to walk the beaches unimposed, irregardless of race.
I bet all the poor buggers that fought and died for this country would be turning over in their graves by this bullshit!!

And I'm sure I was taught at school many moons ago, that the Moriories were here before all Maoris, but that the Maoris ate them all?? So how do Maoris claim to be the indigenous race?

[Headbanger]

Really disappointed with this racist bullshit, National,what the fuck are you thinking?

oh wait, Your thinking you will lick the arse of racist cunts.

well fuck you.

[speights_bud]

I think everyone should be entitled to use a beach too, however I don't think this is the case currently.
I could be wrong, but it's my understanding that there are plenty of beaches that cannot even be accessed by boat legally.

This is interesting, may be worth looking into :)

As i understood it crown land or whatever allows public use of beaches for everybody provided the access was sorted appropriately, but im no expert or nothin

[yungatart]

Really disappointed with this racist bullshit, National,what the fuck are you thinking?

oh wait, Your thinking you will lick the arse of racist cunts.

well fuck you.

My understanding is that it was passed by Labour, before the election....

[speights_bud]

I bet they're not talking Takapuna Beach or Lyall bBy, or New Brighton Beach, so what's the big deal?

There is life outside the big cities you know..... :jerry:

[Headbanger]

My understanding is that it was passed by Labour, before the election....

The only thing better then out right hostility is misdirected out right hostility.:spanking:

In my defence, Not only am I frequently wrong, I'm always righteous.:devil2:

[Dilligaf]

If you consider the special treatment that Maori receive here, there's not much incentive for them to leave. Why would they go to Oz and be treated like everybody else?
:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/4819752a6479.html

The signs warn trespassers at the sprawling Bonavista Crescent home that they risk fines of up to $A10,000 ($NZ12,387) and imprisonment for up to six months if they wander onto its manicured grounds, the Courier Mail newspaper reported on its website.

The embassy has its neighbours in the suburb, Doonan, near Noosa Heads, scratching their heads, as the home's occupants claim to have established the diplomatic headquarters under the Te Ture Whenua Maori Act (Maori Land Act) of 1993.




They've thought of that... :confused:

[MIXONE]

Already had "Dover Samuels" (yes you read right, Dover fucking Samuels) abusing the hell out of myself and my partner (while I was 7 months pregnant mind you) all because we were on the beach. :confused: We were then informed that we weren't allowed there as the "grass" , "sand" and right down to the "waters edge" had suddenly become private property and we weren't welcome to use the beach. Nice being told to go back to where we came from eg: "camping ground." We did inform him that we had been living in said area for the past 2 years with no issues what so ever over us walking on or swimming at said beach. I wish I had of recorded it. Tried being civil with him at first. But eventually you give up being nice when someones still hurling abuse at you. Don't think he liked being sworn at back because the following day animal control turned up in regards to our "savage pitbulls." :laugh: (savagely lick you to death mongrels)

What is New Zealand coming to? Can't even go to the beach without being verbally abused and told to leave. And very soon it will turn into fines. What a fucking sick joke.
Don't get me started on that lot...
Years ago at Matauri Bay me and my wife were told by his wife to basically fuck off when my wife wanted to use the toilets to change in to her togs.Iwi only was the reply.I was that pissed off that we rode about 50 metres back down the road and I stripped right there in full view.Fucking skinny little honky body would have scared the shit out of them.

[98tls]

:yawn:Cant see what all the fuss is about really,New Zealanders have been fucked over by the "you owe us" segment of Maori for years.They started off with a street, got a suburb then look out the suburbs full of em turned into citys:eek5:Why you think after given them the sea they wouldnt want the beaches is beyond me.

[Big Dave]

I was asked to leave and not return to a Hauraki Gulf beach by a National Parks Ranger 3 weeks ago.

Walking along it and taking photographs was scaring the birds.

[James Deuce]

There is life outside the big cities you know..... :jerry:
I wasn't suggesting there wasn't.

You know darn well what I'm implying or your KB handle isn't the worst taste in beer ever.

[James Deuce]

This is interesting, may be worth looking into :)

As i understood it crown land or whatever allows public use of beaches for everybody provided the access was sorted appropriately, but im no expert or nothin
The Queen's Chain. (http://www.publicaccessnewzealand.com/files/plc_release_900219.pdf) It only applies to land owned by the Crown, so Owl is quite correct.

[Big Dave]

I wasn't suggesting there wasn't.

You know darn well what I'm implying or your KB handle isn't the worst taste in beer ever.

I'm still looking at the map for big 'cities'. Can only see one.

[Quasievil]

I was asked to leave and not return to a Hauraki Gulf beach by a National Parks Ranger 3 weeks ago.

Walking along it and taking photographs was scaring the birds.


Got some boobie pics to show us at least???

Ya grubby old man hehehehe

[speights_bud]

I wasn't suggesting there wasn't.

You know darn well what I'm implying or your KB handle isn't the worst taste in beer ever.


hehe:hug: i've been trying to think of something to change my name to, coz this one is just shit, but i though Doohan would be a bit Ghey, even though it is is my name, any suggestions?

[Big Dave]

Got some boobie pics to show us at least???

Ya grubby old man hehehehe

Only the feathered kind thank you. I was actchoooally is search of Pahutukawa but they had passed their prime.

[Swoop]

Presumably the local tribes will become responsible for Search and Rescue duties if they are responsible for this area?
I guess we will see a well set up, and iwi funded, rescue helicopter service of their own.

[98tls]

Presumably the local tribes will become responsible for Search and Rescue duties if they are responsible for this area?
I guess we will see a well set up, and iwi funded, rescue helicopter service of their own. "iwi funded"? dont you mean Kiwi funded?Cant be "iwi" funded there to busy on the bludge to earn money.

[FJRider]

hehe:hug: i've been trying to think of something to change my name to, coz this one is just shit, but i though Doohan would be a bit Ghey, even though it is is my name, any suggestions?

Ghey Doohan... :whistle:

[speights_bud]

Ghey Doohan... :whistle:

Would that be any better than "P-Dizzle"?....:blink:

[Magua]

So what criteria is there for detrmining if you are Maori enough to visit this beach?

I think the criteria was uninterupted customary ownership since 1840.

The sensationalist title seems far from what they're actually trying to do here.

"However, Houkamau added, in some situations it might not be appropriate for a camper van to park up at a wahi tapu site. "There are enough beautiful beaches on the coast which are not wahi tapu.""

"In particular areas, called Territorial Customary Rights Areas, the agreement gives Ngati Porou even greater powers - to veto resource consents, and to set or waive conservation rules."

The article says they have had, in some places, 170 years of posession of the lands.

[Dave Lobster]

I haven't met a Maori without a cunning plan or three yet.

Don't cunning plans need to work to be cunning?



Maori apparently were the first to come from other Islands and settled here, but does that give you the right to claim ownership?


The Scandanavians/Scottish were here first. They were here for several generations before the maoris came and killed/ate them.

[Ixion]

Wahi bullshit, I'll call. The games plans transparent.

Take a really nice bit of beach front property. Establish exclusive rights to the BEACH (not just access rights throught he surrounding land, but rights to the beach itself).

Then sell those rights to rich foreigners to build exclusive (as in exclusive , low caste Kiwiws not permitted) losges and hotels.

Bet you anything you like that in 10 years time all these wahi whatsit sites will be occupied by foreigners.

[firefighter]

has anyone called the fucken U.N yet??????? This is a breach of human rights, south africa/aparteid???? this happened to the blacks in S.A, fined for being coloured, in the wrong part of town, it's about to happen here...for fucks sake.

[Headbanger]

My understanding is that it was passed by Labour, before the election....




The new Government is to approve the deal this month.


.Bastards.

[SixPackBack]

Fuck me another Maori bashing beat-up. Chill people.

[Shadows]

Bet you anything you like that in 10 years time all these wahi whatsit sites will be occupied by foreigners.

Really? How much?

[98tls]

Fuck me another Maori bashing beat-up. Chill people. Xactly,calling a spade a spade is getting nowhere,this maybe?http://atlanta.creativeloafing.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A206566

[SixPackBack]

Xactly,calling a spade a spade is getting nowhere,this maybe?http://atlanta.creativeloafing.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A206566

Pricks like you make me ashamed to be white.

[XxKiTtiExX]

Don't get me started on that lot...
Years ago at Matauri Bay me and my wife were told by his wife to basically fuck off when my wife wanted to use the toilets to change in to her togs.Iwi only was the reply.I was that pissed off that we rode about 50 metres back down the road and I stripped right there in full view.Fucking skinny little honky body would have scared the shit out of them.

In the two years of living here I have seen numerous cases of slashed tyres and people being abused and made feel unwelcome. This is it. This is how it is going to be from now on, its truely unbelievable. What a lovely example of what was once our local MP. Makes you all warm and fuzzy inside doesn't it? I really honestly could not understand his behaviour that day. Ended up screaming at him and telling him to just shut his fucking mouth. Well what do you know he ended up resorting to trying to get our pets impounded after realizing he wasn't getting anywhere with his attempt at kicking us off the beach. I'm looking forward to the next round :jerry::jerry: :eek:

[98tls]

Pricks like you make me ashamed to be white. Funny that,pricks like you make me proud to be white,go figure.

[Big Dave]

Would that be any better than "P-Dizzle"?....:blink:

Notmick-Doohan Racing

[popelli]

Glad I left NZ 10 years ago, I had had enough of being treated as a 2nd class citizen

It would apear that apartheid is still alive and thriving

[98tls]

Glad I left NZ 10 years ago, I had had enough of being treated as a 2nd class citizen

It would apear that apartheid is still alive and thriving It will stop soon enough,there cant be that much left to give away.

[Brian d marge]

Had a long story all written out then the computer froze ...Nuts

so short version

reccomend you fellas read a book called

http://www.amazon.com/Five-Families-Mexican-Studies-Culture/dp/0465097057

I reckon quite a few problems such as binge drinking and speeding overtaking etc ,,would disappear over nite !

if you dont believe me ,,,heres the proof ....

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/tAWG6GkUcws&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/tAWG6GkUcws&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


And as for anyone abusing another and assuming people were allowed on the beach ,,,( I wouldnt take kindly to strangers cutting across to the shops through my back garden ...either ) That is just plain wrong ,,,,the abuse that is ,,,the ignoramus ...( see above book )


anyway ,,, one group has got off their backside and is trying to make their lot better ,,,the other lot have bent over and are taking it up the arse ... ... you wait untill the one they call Big John comes along ... then the hurtin gonna start ,,,

oh ..hes here ...

Good luck fellas !


Stephen


Ps parliment is Freepost and it only takes a few min to write a letter ,,,... see above book for reasons why not to get involved

ps have we had thre generations since the eighties reform??? must be about that now....


snip

n economics, the cycle of poverty is the "set of factors or events by which poverty, once started, is likely to continue unless there is outside intervention."[1]

The cycle of poverty has been defined as a phenomenon where poor families become trapped in poverty for at least three generations. These families have either limited or no resources. There are many disadvantages that collectively work in a circular process making it virtually impossible for individuals to break the cycle. [2] This occurs when impoverished people do not have the resources necessary to get out of poverty, such as financial capital, education, or connections. In other words, poverty-stricken individuals experience disadvantages as a result of their poverty, which in turn increases their poverty. This would mean that the poor remain poor throughout their lives. [1]

The poverty cycle is usually called "development trap" when it is applied to countries. [1]

[Headbanger]

Had a long story all written out then the computer froze ...Nuts

so short version

reccomend you fellas read a book called

http://www.amazon.com/Five-Families-Mexican-Studies-Culture/dp/0465097057

I reckon quite a few problems such as binge drinking and speeding overtaking etc ,,would disappear over nite !

if you dont believe me ,,,heres the proof ....




Don't quite follow you there, we read a book and then shitheads all start to behave?, whats the video proof of?,shitheads tolerated in our society?

[Brian d marge]

Don't quite follow you there, we read a book and then shitheads all start to behave?, whats the video proof of?,shitheads tolerated in our society?

google is your friend ,,,and if you look at the idiots in the video you will see what the book is talking about ,,,,

I even edited the post for those who couldn't be arsed doing a search ...

Reading , being education is listed as a one of the things that traps people into poverty ,,,and those idiots in the video ,,sorta look like they is a lacking in the brains dept ..and education of a standard we the general public expect ,, may not be there .

Stephen

[Headbanger]

So you make posts and expect people to go do research to figure out what your on about? Lmao.

Shit system.

so,whats your point?,Poverty is the cause of crime?

I say bullshit, Plenty of people, hell entire generations and sometimes entire populations were brought up poor, and they didn't have the mentality that they could take what they liked,destroy what they didn't, and rape and bash those physically weaker then them.

And wtf has this got to do with a beach?

[Brian d marge]

So you make posts and expect people to go do research to figure out what your on about? Lmao.

Shit system.

so,whats your point?,Poverty is the cause of crime?

I say bullshit, Plenty of people, hell entire generations and sometimes entire populations were brought up poor, and they didn't have the mentality that they could take what they liked,destroy what they didn't, and rape and bash those physically weaker then them.

And wtf has this got to do with a beach?

umm yes . ( or have the knowledge in place before hand , either through an education ..or by reading)

if I write it in text speak would you be able to grasp it?

Just go and google the poverty cycle , then spend a few min thinking about it ,, and I am sure you will see the link / with the beach , in fact a whole lot of stuff just might make a bit more sense .

either that or I have to get the crayons out and spend my time explaining a complex subject to a casualty of the Now generation , When I could be watching pron on the internet.


I ll start you off though ,

The culture of poverty concept is a social theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_theory) explaining the cycle of poverty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycle_of_poverty). Based on the concept that the poor have a unique value system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_system), the culture of poverty theory suggests the poor remain in poverty because of their adaptations to the burdens of poverty.
The term "subculture of poverty" (later shortened to "culture of poverty") made its first prominent appearance in the ethnography Five Families: Mexican Case Studies in the Culture of Poverty (1959) by anthropologist Oscar Lewis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscar_Lewis). Lewis struggled to render "the poor" as legitimate subjects whose lives were transformed by poverty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty). He argued that although the burdens of poverty were systemic and therefore imposed upon these members of society, they led to the formation of an autonomous subculture as children were socialized into behaviors and attitudes that perpetuated their inability to escape the underclass.

see the link now ...


Stephen

[Jantar]

.....

see the link now ...


Stephen

No ........

[Kwaka14]

Apartheid here we come?

[Dave Lobster]

I ll start you off though ,

The culture of poverty concept is a social theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_theory) explaining the cycle of poverty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycle_of_poverty). Based on the concept that the poor have a unique value system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_system), the culture of poverty theory suggests the poor remain in poverty because of their adaptations to the burdens of poverty.
The term "subculture of poverty" (later shortened to "culture of poverty") made its first prominent appearance in the ethnography Five Families: Mexican Case Studies in the Culture of Poverty (1959) by anthropologist Oscar Lewis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscar_Lewis). Lewis struggled to render "the poor" as legitimate subjects whose lives were transformed by poverty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty). He argued that although the burdens of poverty were systemic and therefore imposed upon these members of society, they led to the formation of an autonomous subculture as children were socialized into behaviors and attitudes that perpetuated their inability to escape the underclass.

see the link now ...


Stephen

Bullshit. Poverty these days is defined by how much free benefit you get, how many different LCD TVs you've got, how many games consoles, how many illegitimate offspring you've managed to spawn to different mothers, how big the skalextric car wheels are on your chavved up family shopping car..

Academics can argue all they like.. it just reminds me of the Joker on Full Metal Jacket. "Seen any combat?"
"Seen a little on TV"

[Grahameeboy]

WTF is reverse racism?

There's only racism.

-Indy

Well generally racism is conisidered as white folk against blacks...reverse racism is blacks v white folk...or genocide...

[SixPackBack]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10552478

To the social scientists and racist [why are most of you from the south island?] best to check this article before you spout more shite

[Grahameeboy]

Bullshit. Poverty these days is defined by how much free benefit you get, how many different LCD TVs you've got, how many games consoles, how many illegitimate offspring you've managed to spawn to different mothers, how big the skalextric car wheels are on your chavved up family shopping car..

Academics can argue all they like.. it just reminds me of the Joker on Full Metal Jacket. "Seen any combat?"
"Seen a little on TV"

So I must be rich....?

[Grahameeboy]

Bet NZers will not make as much fuss as they did about the Anti-Smacking Law though...now let me see what is more important I wonder...oops...forgot this is NZ...

[balans]

Well generally racism is conisidered as white folk against blacks...reverse racism is blacks v white folk...or genocide...

No racism is racisim, regardless of the role of the races involved.

It could be argued that the term 'reverse racism' is a racist term, but I can't be bothered getting into semantics.

You may like to look up genocide in a dictionary.

[Grahameeboy]

No racism is racisim, regardless of the role of the races involved.

It could be argued that the term 'reverse racism' is a racist term, but I can't be bothered getting into semantics.

You may like to look up genocide in a dictionary.

I was using Genocide as a difference issue....I agree but Racism started as Whites v Blacks...don't seem to recall an historical facts about Blacks v Whites....

Text Book or Real Book?

[Slyer]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10552478

To the social scientists and racist [why are most of you from the south island?] best to check this article before you spout more shite
The original article was so misleading then... fucking media.
I still don't think anyone should have ownership over it.

[Tank]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10552478

To the social scientists and racist [why are most of you from the south island?] best to check this article before you spout more shite

hmm - yes - we will all have access etc etc. Easy to say that before they get the rights.

Example - The Tribe that control the "Waikato" river. Farmers have had access for years. Now they need to ask permission from the tribe.

I know of farmers who have been asked to give "koha" (love) (oh and tax free) payments to retain the rights they had for years. Often this is in the many, many thousands of dollars.

So they have to find the money - or lose their farm.

I'm all for addressing wrongs as best as possible - but I also believe in enshrining rights for all NZ'ers to access the beach. If beaches can be closed - lets make it a max of (say) 5 days a year - not 50 where they can close them for all of summer.

I also believe that they should do the same as in the UK where any crime that is race based gets triple punishment - ie: Assault someone and the 'time' is say 2 years. Assault someone calling them nigger or white bastard - max time is 6 years.

Attacking someone for the colour of their skin is a sad, sad, sad thing.

[Indiana_Jones]

Well generally racism is conisidered as white folk against blacks...reverse racism is blacks v white folk...or genocide...

How does reserve rape and reserve assault work? :blink:

-Indy

[MSTRS]

Notmick-Doohan Racing

MickyD ???

[MSTRS]

hmm - yes - we will all have access etc etc. Easy to say that before they get the rights.

Example - The Tribe that control the "Waikato" river. Farmers have had access for years. Now they need to ask permission from the tribe.



It's called 'give an inch...'

[Grahameeboy]

How does reserve rape and reserve assault work? :blink:

-Indy

Guess you always need a 'reserve'.....:msn-wink:

[Headbanger]

see the link now ...


Stephen

Nope.

Back to the beach.

[ManDownUnder]

How does reserve rape and reserve assault work? :blink:

-Indy

Exactly as you would expect them to. She rapes him - it's a crime, and common assault (as opposed to Male Assault Female).

Back to the topic at hand though... ironic they're white sand beaches innit?

[Naki Rat]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4822522a11.html

>>"Our custom in this country has been that the average New Zealander can enjoy a picnic lunch on the beach and take an appropriate and reasonable proportion of seafood - that's not a major issue," she
told the newspaper.
But in some situations it may not be appropriate for a camper van to park up at a wahi tapu site, she said.<<

Drunk people sitting and standing all over the graves in Wanganui on Boxing Day is not really appropiate either but it happens, and everybody pretty much gets over it and gets on with their lives.

Move on from your stone age beliefs people.

[jonbuoy]

Its 2009 not 1863 the american civil war is over -we have running hot water, cars, aeroplanes, TV, the internet we've been to the moon been through two world wars and we nearly all got wiped out in the cold war - move with the times people. This is embarrasing for NZ to still be dealing with the treaty, draw a line and move on.

[Quasievil]

Example - The Tribe that control the "Waikato" river. Farmers have had access for years. Now they need to ask permission from the tribe.


Good, its never been cleaner.

[MIXONE]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10552478

To the social scientists and racist [why are most of you from the south island?] best to check this article before you spout more shite

LMAO whiteboy but you should try going to Matauri Bay for a look around and you'll see racism first hand.

[Owl]

I also believe that they should do the same as in the UK where any crime that is race based gets triple punishment - ie: Assault someone and the 'time' is say 2 years. Assault someone calling them nigger or white bastard - max time is 6 years.

I have a serious issue with this Tank and I'll explain why!

Your example describes "assault" with name calling! This is not necessarily race based and the assault could have started over a game of pool. See where I’m going?

Let’s cut the word “nigger” and even things up! We’ll say “Black bastard” and “White bastard”. Being called either of these is an acknowledgement of difference and could in fact be very accurate. I do take exception to the word bastard in my case, as it’s not true, but I am however white!

Racism to me is about ignorance, a lack of acknowledgement, acceptance and understanding! Pretending we are all the same and all one people is just PC bullshit and the cause of the problem! Races are different and have very different needs!

Rant over and you can go back to doing whatever it was you were doing Tank. Setting fire to cats perhaps?:msn-wink:


Attacking someone for the colour of their skin is a sad, sad, sad thing.

Agreed!:yes:

[Ixion]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10552478

To the social scientists and racist [why are most of you from the south island?] best to check this article before you spout more shite

The article changes nothing. That is just someone saying "Oh, yes, we are demanding the right to ban everyone from the beaches, but don't worry , we won't really do it, honest we won't"

I never believe people who go to great lengths to demand some power or privilege and claim that they will never invoke it. If they never intend to do it, why demand the right to do it.

[Disco Dan]

So let me get this straight...

Maoris arrived to NZ, ate the people already here and claimed they owned everything. Then British arrived, maoris signed over everything to them and now they have changed their minds. Now for (almost) revenge like reasons they are using racial loopholes to get rights back to land just so they can put up a sign saying it's sacred?

I'm not buying it. If they get the rights to the land, they will not stop at a couple of signs saying "sacred - please be nice".

At the end of the day it is all about control. Blatant racism.

[ManDownUnder]

Drunk people sitting and standing all over the graves in Wanganui on Boxing Day is not really appropiate either but it happens, and everybody pretty much gets over it and gets on with their lives.

Move on from your stone age beliefs people.

Agreed on the first part, but I'd prefer a little mutual respect. No standing on graves, and a reciprocal respect of the Maori Sacred land. Start with that and try to resolve things as adults - rather than as conflict through the courts etc.

[Headbanger]

When I'm dead and buried everyone is welcome to do as they please on the crap piece of land under which I rotted.

Eat, drink, and be merry.

And a big HELL YEAH if someone organises a yearly motorcycle event around my plot.

Land isn't suddenly bestowed as sacred when your standing on it, yet it is when we are under it?

[Waxxa]

First of all, this agreement hasn't been ratified yet so there is no point in getting worked up and anxious over something that hasn't happened.

I would doubt if the beaches would be closed and if some are...so what. Go to another beach.

Also, not all land was sold to the British (on agreeable terms). A lot of land in NZ was confiscated for the most punitive of crimes and the confiscation was well over the top, hundreds and hundreds of acres for ridiculous charges. Some dealings over land was also legitimate sales too.

If the land does belong to the local tribe (owner) then it is the tribe (owner) who has say over who has access and at what times of the year etc and all NZers need to accept that, as you would expect if 'you' had private land and people wanted to walk across it.

I'll give you an example: a few years ago I was heavily involved with rock-climbing down in the Waikato region. All the 'crags' are on private land. Each time we would want to go climbing we would go ask the land owner. If the land owner said 'no' due to lambing for example, we would have to go somewhere else. No problems, no animosity. Respect the land owners.

[Headbanger]

First of all, this agreement hasn't been ratified yet so there is no point in getting worked up and anxious over something that hasn't happened.

I would doubt if the beaches would be closed and if some are...so what. Go to another beach.


1. This is exactly the time to get upset, Pity we don't do more and put a stop to it.

2.The point is it will be closed to white people,This is racist separatist bullshit we as a country should have grown out of rather then building policy around it. You wait and see how the real world effect of this crap pans out.

I some how doubt your lambing example would be so sweet if your told to fuck off coz u eez bleck fella.


Edit.


Now the moment has passed, I don't have any real issue with declaring a few no go areas for historical reasons, If that is all it turns out to be. Though I doubt very strongly that will be the case.

[Finn]

I think Maori are cutting their noses off to spite their faces. They haven't given any thought to the economical impact this decision will have on the greater Maori people. If white folk aren't visiting their beaches, whose cars are they going to break into?

[MSTRS]

I think Maori are cutting their noses off to spite their faces. They haven't given any thought to the economical impact this decision will have on the greater Maori people. If white folk aren't visiting their beaches, whose cars are they going to break into?

Each other's?
Our recent stay at Te kaha was long enough to see what the locals drive and what they outfit their rides with. Flasher than my 2 vehicles. And not a bomb to be seen.
Which surprised me.

[Waxxa]

If the beaches are to be closed, it will be closed for all people, not just WHITE people.

There are beaches around NZ that are in private ownership NOW! that are closed to all NZers, not just Maori or whites or asians or whomever. Do these private beaches (that may be owned by whites) also bother you?

So who is making this a racial issue. Media? individual bias?

Perception and reality are totally different. Lets wait and see what the owners do. Virtually all the land and coast around the East Cape (which is the tribe signing the deal) is maori owned anyway so it's 'status Quo'.

[JimO]

If the beaches are to be closed, it will be closed for all people, not just WHITE people.

There are beaches around NZ that are in private ownership NOW! the deal) is

really??? care to name them

[Ixion]

I'm not aware of any beach in NZ where the beach itself (between high and low water) is in private hands (as opposed to the land access to it). There might be a few but it is very very rare. Estuaries is another matter.

Claims of "private beaches" usually turn out to be where some rich fat cat owns the only access to a beach and throws his weight around if anyone tries to access it from the sea or by walking round the coast (both always legal, AFAIK) .

[FJRider]

I'm not aware of any beach in NZ where the beach itself (between high and low water) is in private hands (as opposed to the land access to it). There might be a few but it is very very rare. Estuaries is another matter.

Claims of "private beaches" usually turn out to be where some rich fat cat owns the only access to a beach and throws his weight around if anyone tries to access it from the sea or by walking round the coast (both always legal, AFAIK) .

There are some, that believe ACCESS to any beach or waterway, is of right, in this country. This is not always the case, if access is only over private land. Regardless of if the owners are brown, white, or other.

[Patrick]

My understanding is that it was passed by Labour, before the election....

True... passed and arranged to be signed... umm... this week! A deliberate act, I feel....


Don't get me started on that lot...
Years ago at Matauri Bay me and my wife were told by his wife to basically fuck off when my wife wanted to use the toilets to change in to her togs.Iwi only was the reply.I was that pissed off that we rode about 50 metres back down the road and I stripped right there in full view.Fucking skinny little honky body would have scared the shit out of them.

Hope you bared your arse at them... apparently it is the ultimate insult?


Only the feathered kind thank you. I was actchoooally is search of Pahutukawa but they had passed their prime.

Also known as The NZ Christmas Tree, and it is called such because....???????


Fuck me another Maori bashing beat-up. Chill people.


http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10552478

To the social scientists and racist [why are most of you from the south island?] best to check this article before you spout more shite

I stand corrected.... but it was in the Harold that released the original, clearly a wind up story, now this one? Hmmm... call me suspicious....


How does reserve rape and reserve assault work? :blink:

-Indy

Both get fucked over in a Reserve.....


really??? care to name them

Piemelon Bay on Waiheke Island? (At least it used to be....)

[Ixion]

But that is not in dispute. There are doubtless many beaches that cannot be accessed except over private property. In such cases it is obviously up to the owner of the land which must be crossed whether he is willing to grant permission or not.

But even when the beach cannot be accessed from the land, because of such limitations., the beach itself CAN be, either by a sea landing, or by walking , betwixt the tides, from a neighbouring beach which does have public access.

Ownership of land bordering or surrounding a beach does not grant ownership of the beach itself (until now, anyway)

[Big Dave]

>>Also known as The NZ Christmas Tree, and it is called such because....???????<<

:-)

'Three weeks ago' was when....????

[Brian d marge]

Nope.

Back to the beach.

k
All people want to fit in , people tend to organise themselves based on their social conditioning, The argument was that people remain poor , not due to wealth or surroundings but on the social bonds with other people . So goes the case for the poverty cycle.

look at posted video , tell me you don't see that you men desperately trying to fit in ,,, TO their perceived social norms . Not yours not mine.... but theirs ,

Maori reckoned they have been pooed upon for a few years now and were sick of feeling like a second class citizen , so did very well in the organisational game ,,, Organised themselves , and made it happen The results of which being the beach debate on now.

I dont have a problem with beach access , no worries there ....as was pointed out in earlier posts..., but I do have big issues with people being abused for using the beach , and here it comes back to the social conditioning as I pointed out before , and explain below

There a re a couple of common features with people trapped in a poverty cycle and they are .. Machismoism ( I m staunch , ring a bell ) , Authoritarianism , ( not asking for help and believing you way is the best way ) , lack of interest/ participation in local Government ,Apathy , ( what can I do about it ) and finally living for the Now and not the future ,,( buying the TV on a credit card , not saving for it ) , These were highlighted by Oscar lewis .. ( google 40 secs ) ..also education and of course money


Now think about that video and see if any of the above fit those fellas ... seems to me they have a fair few of the above ,,.

so people people organise themselves into groups , the groups exert a social conditioning , one group in our case , ( we will call them the Yahoos ) decided that they wanted to change , to exert more control , and organised themselves , The other group having been in a comfortable position for a fair old time , we will call this group the Houyhnhnms. are suddenly starting to feel threatened by the first group ( for example beaches.. , etc

snip ( cia world factbook on NZ )

Over the past 20 years the government has transformed New Zealand from an agrarian economy dependent on concessionary British market access to a more industrialized, free market economy that can compete globally. This dynamic growth has boosted real incomes - but left behind many at the bottom of the ladder - and broadened and deepened the technological capabilities of the industrial sector


Snip , from the five families book ( also online 1 min search )

( Oscar Lewis ) ...... argued that although the burdens of poverty were systemic and therefore imposed upon these members of society, they led to the formation of an autonomous subculture as children were socialized into behaviours and attitudes that perpetuated their inability to escape the underclass.

Back to Video and Beaches now .... A large group of Yahoos , left at the bottom of the social ladder forming a subculture, applying what they believe as their " Rights???" which may or may not be legitimate , and another group feeling a perception of threat . .......Beaches again

Can you see the link now ...........

So While the beaches maybe the symptom, The real disease is /was the social reforms and conditioning over the years ( especially in the eighties ) and the way some people have coped with it. (the poverty cycle)




Thats WTF it has to do with beaches ....


Stephen

[Owl]

But that is not in dispute. There are doubtless many beaches that cannot be accessed except over private property. In such cases it is obviously up to the owner of the land which must be crossed whether he is willing to grant permission or not.

But even when the beach cannot be accessed from the land, because of such limitations., the beach itself CAN be, either by a sea landing, or by walking , betwixt the tides, from a neighbouring beach which does have public access.

Ownership of land bordering or surrounding a beach does not grant ownership of the beach itself (until now, anyway)

You may want to check that Ixion?

Look up "Riparian Rights" or check details on the Queens Chain and boundaries pre-1990.

[jtzzr]

Hi guys , I`m Maori ,and I think a large percentage of all this hoo-haa is crap.

So you guys can have my share of the beach ,I hate the fuckin beach , I hate seafood and I hate the fact that all of us ca`nt go to the beach( any beach)And most of all I hate Racism in any form , I`ve seen both sides of it and nobody wins nor benefits. Rant Over

To be honest I`d rather be riding my bike past the fuckin thing. Are there any Maori owned roads I can ride on? ( tarsealed , with twisties?)

[Headbanger]

k

Thats WTF it has to do with beaches ....


Stephen

Nothing????

[NUTBAR]

Yeah...I am pissed off about it...heck they will start with a few east cape beaches to start off with, then over time they will start taking beach after beach since a precedent has been set....

We are all supposedly "one people"...aint that what they try to preach?...until it is better off for the maori to play the race card! .....Reverse Racism is what it is!

they already did fence of the beach at te kaha a few years back, then turned around and said that they would never do that?

[Big Dave]

Hi guys , I`m Maori ,and I think a large percentage of all this hoo-haa is crap.

So you guys can have my share of the beach ,I hate the fuckin beach , I hate seafood and I hate the fact the all of us ca`nt go to the beach( any beach)And most of all I hate Racism in any form , I`ve seen both sides of it and nobody wins nor benefits. Rant Over

To be honest I`d rather be riding my bike past the fuckin thing. Are there any Maori owned roads I can ride on? ( tarsealed , with twisties?)

How much for the Snapper?

[Ixion]

You may want to check that Ixion?

Look up "Riparian Rights" or check details on the Queens Chain and boundaries pre-1990.

Riparian rights , as regards the sea , grant the holder certain rights such as the right to erect a wharf or jetty, the right to launch a boat, to spread nets to dry etc. They do not generally extend below high water mark. Nor, in any cases do they confer ownership of the foreshore, nor do they grant an exclusive right (ie the holder cannot bar access to others , if they do not encroach on land owned by the holder).Riparian rights confer extra rights on the holder, they do not remove the general rights of the public.

Riparian rights on inland waterways are somewhat different , especially non navigable one, which is why I carefully excluded estuaries.

The Queens chain is exactly that - a strip of land vested in the Crown. If there is a Queens chain , then the public have access. This is relevant to the question of ACCESS, not to that of OWNERSHIP

There may be some very old titles which do grant ownership to the foreshore betwixt the tides. Some dodgy things happened in colonial days. I do not think there would be many such , firstly just on the basis of age, and secondly because even in England, since the middle ages the Crown has been very jealous of granting away ownership of the foreshore. It has very rarely happened even in 600 years.

There are areas of beach where access is forbidden under Defence Acts etc, eg those controlled by the Navy. That is a different matter.

(BTW, note carefully my definition of 'beach' as that area between high and low tides. there may be cases where sand, dunes, etc extend well inland, above high water mark. These may well be private property, just as if they were grassy fields. High water mark is the boundary. )

[jtzzr]

How much for the Snapper?

How much do you want? In tonnes

[Big Dave]

How much do you want? In tonnes

Anything that starts with 0.000 should be fine thanks!

[jtzzr]

Anything that starts with 0.000 should be fine thanks!

Done , when they question you tell them I said you could have my share.

[Brian d marge]

Nothing????

Please dont vote

[Swampdonkey]

There is no such thing as the queens chain.
There are a few properties around here with riparian rights,access to beachs along from them is forbidden.(take a boat).
Im own Oyster leases ,which were leased off the crown,MAF controlled.
They are now coastal permits , run by a pack of numpties from regional council. Stalin would of been proud of them...polictical agenda to rid all marine farming.....Give me Maori control of foreshore and seabed anyday. Stop all mineing rights sand and miniral etc..and aquaculture been sold off shore.

[Headbanger]

Please dont vote


That would be don't

Anything else I can help you with, Like the fact the mob and Brazilian poverty have nothing in a million years of hell to do with this thread, You just let me know OK, always happy to help.

[FJRider]

>>Also known as The NZ Christmas Tree, and it is called such because....???????<<



It flowers at christmas time...:beer:

[Brian d marge]

That would be don't

Anything else I can help you with, Like the fact the mob and Brazilian poverty have nothing in a million years of hell to do with this thread, You just let me know OK, always happy to help.

No they share similar features , but we assume that they also would be restricted from the beach

[Big Dave]

Done , when they question you tell them I said you could have my share.

Ha! You know, I've been involved with the YMCA in one form or another for 20 years.
I currently teach 10 to 16 year olds the finer points of Basketball a few hours a week - respect and understanding are also part of the coaching.

There is a poster on the stairs with a picture of a white, brown and asian kid in their soccer uniforms - covered in mud - arms around each other's shoulders - celebrating a famous win.

The caption is 'what they learn here doesn't wash off'.

It's why I go there. It's paid me back tenfold. Sometimes in fish. Mostly in friendship. Me and Stevie 'The Black Flash' turned a NSW community on it's ear one time - but that is another legend. :-)

[roy.nz]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10552397

and if you white bastards dont keep of - the NZ g'ment will chase you off with a $5000 fine.

Fucken brillant.

And now people will say that south africans are a racist bunch with aparthied, well guess what that happened ages ago and now NZ is having its own version, who the racist mother fuckers now?? NZ is moving towards the aparthied era.
And i thought i left all that shit behind. Im sorry its going to be like lend a hand and they'l take the whole arm.
Sorry im racist sometimes have to be honest but im not that bad that i want white only beach's.
Fuck this lets all shift over to Aussi:bash:

[roy.nz]

I want a whites only beach now..... They fucked up with the treaty so why should we pay for that now?? Take you a bet im goona get called racist for saying i want a whites only beach, then the indian fella wants his own beach the asian fella and so one. This shit fucks me off.:mad:

[98tls]

And now people will say that south africans are a racist bunch with aparthied, well guess what that happened ages ago and now NZ is having its own version, who the racist mother fuckers now?? NZ is moving towards the aparthied era.
And i thought i left all that shit behind. Im sorry its going to be like lend a hand and they'l take the whole arm.
Sorry im racist sometimes have to be honest but im not that bad that i want white only beach's.
Fuck this lets all shift over to Aussi:bash: Dont apologise its not your fault your white,combine that with having an opinion = racist,if your non white and have an opinion its called entitlement.

[roy.nz]

Dont apologise its not your fault your white,combine that with having an opinion = racist,if your non white and have an opinion its called entitlement.

Well said, im still fucked off about this shit :angry2:

[candor]

Extension of customary fishing rights/traditional resource management is fine, but barring people from the beach and fines are rediculous.

I thought the point of the seabed and foreshore act was to nationalise the coast for the benefit of every New Zealander.

It was to prevent a potentially divisive situation of Maori trying a menacingly sound claim in Courts for something like freehold title on all beaches, as then they in theory could have legally banned non tribers or strangers. Tho they said "we wouldn't do that", it seems Clark didnae wanna risk it by giving them same appeal rights as whites. Might be why we cut ties with Privy Council so our corrupt judiciary could screw natives unmonitored.

Freehold title still isn't ownership - it is exclusive rights to Crown land ie land protected by the NZ defence forces.

As I understand it, the Act instead gives Maori control over beaches they traditionally were guardian of for purpose of resource management / conservation.

So if I really really wanted to go on a part of a shore apportioned to Maori I'd not expect to be booted off unless... I was polluting, risked stepping on threatened species, was breaching a raahui ie a person prohibition order that was placed for good reason for a time, or trying to take stuff that wasn't conserved or meant for me eg scarce seafood bound for functions at the pa.

Its a special designated area like dog walking parts of a beach so ha different rules. XXitecx story sucks - just goes to show some will let the control concept go to their head and abuse it, or at least the not even respectfully explain why you can't be there. It could be something like that someone has drowned and rites need performing. Could Dover have felt above providing explanations or expected maddening mockery if he had explained rationale?

My mate helps Polices her Maori beach at times in Waimarama. Sometimes there is a fee at the boat access like $5, and this is to pay toward track maintenance, plantings etc that the local Maori Trust have long done to keep the beach all good. Once a redneck tried to run her over, & not pay the poor hardworking thing this meagre non profit fee.

[98tls]

Well said, im still fucked off about this shit :angry2: Wouldnt bother being fucked off to much about it and certainly would bother directing it at Maori in general,many i know find all this shit embarrasing,a combination of radicals,decades of nutless government,media with nothing better to do and some white people taking every opportunity to puff there chests and cry racist in order to give there lives some sense of purpose isnt worth getting fucked off about.

[Headbanger]

Wouldnt bother being fucked off to much about it and certainly would bother directing it at Maori in general,many i know find all this shit embarrasing,a combination of radicals,decades of nutless government,media with nothing better to do and some white people taking every opportunity to puff there chests and cry racist in order to give there lives some sense of purpose isnt worth getting fucked off about.

It won't let me rep ya twice in a row.

Probably only encourage ya anyhow.

Muhahahahaha

[MSTRS]

It flowers at christmas time...:beer:

Um, actually, the flowering is all but over by Xmas. Generally, they are at their best during November.
And to keep the Maori angle of this thread, they say that the earlier the Pohutukawa flowers the better the summer will be.

[Finn]

There are beaches around NZ that are in private ownership NOW! that are closed to all NZers, not just Maori or whites or asians or whomever. Do these private beaches (that may be owned by whites) also bother you?

As Ixion pointed out, you can't "own" a beach, but you can own the land and therefore "access" to the beach. There are many examples of this in NZ however most white folk (with the exception of some nasty Aucklanders) provide access to the beach as long as their land is respected. Many farmers fall into this category.

In fact, just this Christmas while staying in the Coromandel, I crossed a farm to gain access to some rocks for some free diving. I noticed many people doing the same to fish off the rocks. One day I saw the farmer repairing the fence where people where climbing over. The next day, I rode to the farmhouse (as I approached, it got bigger and bigger) with crayfish and scollop's in hand to thank him. Nice old farmer. Just sold part of the peninsular for $50m as was in the process of "retiring" his cows.

Maori's with chips, pies and crates of beer on their shoulders will not allow access to the beach because they believe the world owes them. Poor little people.

Slightly off topic, but I'm more concerned about how much land DOC has under "control". Fucking up access and fun for all. Mother fuckers.

[Waxxa]

really??? care to name them

I dont know the name of the beaches but a couple on Waiheke Island, along the Kaipara harbour, around the Bay of Islands...it goes on and on. People are denied access.

Thanks to Finn, you do clarify that by 'own' I do mean 'access'.

[Max Preload]

What about Traditional folk who want to manage their resources the way it's worked for a lot longer than us whiteys have been doing it.


For that reason I like the idea of areas of traditional natural resource management.

What you call traditional resource 'management' is nothing of the sort. It's simply a case of supply outstripping demand - much lower levels of population placing demand on a resource does not equate to management.


If reckon if you went to the big kahuna and said - dude, mind if I have a dip - all would be cool anyway - just don't set up a sand mine eh bro.

Might be. Might not be. I like it the way it is - obey the laws and you're free to use public land.


About time someone read the article.

It is about restricting commercial use.


You might want to read it yourself. It says people.


Can someone explain to me in Plain english how this is at all possible.
Please explain how a 40 year old male born in New Zealand to New Zealand parents can have less rights in New Zealand than another New zealander of New zealand parents just because the second dude happens to have brown skin

It's called racism.


I was asked to leave and not return to a Hauraki Gulf beach by a National Parks Ranger 3 weeks ago.

Walking along it and taking photographs was scaring the birds.

So it wasn't anything to do with your parentage, skin colour or nationality? Sounds like whatever the reason it is the same for everyone. What could be fairer than that?


First of all, this agreement hasn't been ratified yet so there is no point in getting worked up and anxious over something that hasn't happened.

Incorrect - now is the EXACT time to get worked up about it - before it's enacted.


Also, not all land was sold to the British (on agreeable terms). A lot of land in NZ was confiscated for the most punitive of crimes and the confiscation was well over the top, hundreds and hundreds of acres for ridiculous charges. Some dealings over land was also legitimate sales too.

Completely separate issue.


If the land does belong to the local tribe (owner) then it is the tribe (owner) who has say over who has access and at what times of the year etc and all NZers need to accept that, as you would expect if 'you' had private land and people wanted to walk across it.

I'm pretty sure nobody is demanding right of passage through private land to access the beach. What is being taken from us is the right to use the beach itself on a whim.


I'll give you an example: a few years ago I was heavily involved with rock-climbing down in the Waikato region. All the 'crags' are on private land. Each time we would want to go climbing we would go ask the land owner. If the land owner said 'no' due to lambing for example, we would have to go somewhere else. No problems, no animosity. Respect the land owners.

He owned the land on which the 'crags' are found - again completely different.


So you guys can have my share of the beach, I hate the fuckin beach, I hate seafood...

Some maori you are... :lol:


I dont know the name of the beaches but a couple on Waiheke Island, along the Kaipara harbour, around the Bay of Islands...it goes on and on. People are denied access.

Denied access across private land. But Ixion has already clarified that in many cases access can be gain from the adjacent beach or water. Not that it matters - is your argument that, because it happens somewhere, it should be allowed to happen anywhere and everywhere? It seems you're complaining about lack of access in one post, then saying it's ok in another...


I would doubt if the beaches would be closed and if some are... so what. Go to another beach.

[twotyred]

and everyone used to diss Labour for their PC nonsense:rofl:

[Tank]

I recon if us whities get banned from beaches - we should ban Maori from KFC.

Lets see who gives in first.

[Big Dave]

>>obey the laws and you're free to use public land.<<

From what I understand - that doesn't change - just don't pee on the totem pole.

[Big Dave]

November?? - The Pahutukawas on the Pahutu coast don't happen till mid december

[JimO]

and everyone used to diss Labour for their PC nonsense:rofl:

who do you think set this up

[balans]

I have no idea.

My opinion is tempered by the way Australia did not learn enough about indigenous husbandry of the land before the culture was destroyed.
It's only in the last 30 years or so that we learned about 'Bush Tucker'.

For that reason I like the idea of areas of traditional natural resource management.

Kinda like a backup plan, because we know governments never get it wrong either hey.

Like the indigenous husbandry of Australias megafauna?

There was no indigenous husbandry in Australia, just hunter gathering. This was a major limiting factor in the development of the pre-european culture. This isn't a refelction of the potential of the societies members, merely a reflection of the needs of a small population relative to the size of the country and nutritional resources available.

"Bush tucker' is good in a survival situation or a nice novelty but is not even close to being able to meet the calorific needs of a modern society.

[Big Dave]

And Furthermore - the way you buggers can't swim - you should only go between the flags anyways.

[SARGE]

I was asked to leave and not return to a Hauraki Gulf beach by a National Parks Ranger 3 weeks ago.

Walking along it and taking photographs was scaring the birds.

cuz yr an Ozzy...

[SARGE]

I recon if us whities get banned from beaches - we should ban Maori from KFC.

Lets see who gives in first.

and they can fuck off out of the takeaways and casinos too

****taking my ball and goin home..**grumble**

[Dave Lobster]

I recon if us whities get banned from beaches - we should ban Maori from KFC.

Lets see who gives in first.

You're going to remove the doorframes to allow them out, are you? :)

[Big Dave]

cuz yr an Ozzy...

I wasn't talking or bowling - they couldn't tell.

[SARGE]

I wasn't talking or bowling - they couldn't tell.

well then..


its cuz ya bleck..



innit

[Swoop]

and everyone used to diss Labour for their PC nonsense:rofl:
You aren't paying much attention to NZ's political arena, are you?

[batboy]

I always thought maori culture was they did not "own" the land, only used it and retuned it after death or something along those lines?

quote google search:
"It was accepted that the people who were born onto that land inherited the right to produce from it and to protect it for the benefit of all."

so where the fuck do they get off thinking they own it? they dont even honour their own culture, i mean really how many "real" maoris are there anymore.
Its bloody PC gone mad i say

[Dooly]

I recon if us whities get banned from beaches - we should ban Maori from KFC.

Lets see who gives in first.

Well that would be the end of the Tokoroa one!!!

Went to Hamilton Xmas day.....nothing open for a munch from my house to Tokora cept a Subway in Taupo packed.

Got to Tokoroa KFC was open.
Said to the missus I need a feed bad, lets do a Xmas dinner here eh.
Yeah, what a fucked idea but anyway...........
Lined up behind a huge Maori lady, size of a CF Bedford. Her order took ages and when it came she damn near needed a wheelbarrow for it.
200 pieces of rancid seagull, 15 large coleslaws, same spud, same chips!!!!
The chick behind the counter said she was serving the pre orders.
Eh??

Yep, kid you not it was open 10-2 for pre order KFC Xmas dinner.

So we sat down and entertained ourselves watching obese folk and kids waddling out with hundreds of pieces.
Saw a kid struggling with 6 huge buckets and heaps of spud, coleslaw while his fatass lazy parents sat in the car watching.

It was a procession of obese waddling in and waddling out with the Colonel's finest.

Oh to have the day's takings!!!!:banana:

[Patrick]

>>Also known as The NZ Christmas Tree, and it is called such because....???????<<

:-)

'Three weeks ago' was when....????

The 29th...? After xmas...:bleh:


Um, actually, the flowering is all but over by Xmas. Generally, they are at their best during November.
And to keep the Maori angle of this thread, they say that the earlier the Pohutukawa flowers the better the summer will be.


November?? - The Pahutukawas on the Pahutu coast don't happen till mid december

Same here in the Naki....

[Cheshire Cat]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10552397

and if you white bastards dont keep of - the NZ g'ment will chase you off with a $5000 fine.

Fucken brillant.

what a load of fucking bullshit!!!!! yet they can drag their nuckles around the rest of the beaches and take ALL the paua!!


:angry2:

[Sollyboy]

I wonder how many of these rights are removed from the general public when this is finally law and enforced , talk about a big step backward.
http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html


fucken bastards

[Patrick]

I wonder how many of these rights are removed from the general public when this is finally law and enforced , talk about a big step backward.
http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html


fucken bastards

I wonder what "Race Relations" and the like are doing..... They seem quiet.

[Brett]

Hmmm, sounds a lot like something a certain african country practised many years ago that had them shut off from the rest of the western world, economically, with sports...every way possible.
But of course this is all ok, because there is no racism in NZ.:Pokey:

Well let that be fine...if any of those particulars monkeys want to start playing that game, remove their rights to use ANYTHING brought here by europeans. Power - gone. Running water - Gone. Cars - Gone. Roads - Gone. Health care system - Gone. POT - Gone. P - Gone. KFC - Gone. SKY tv - Gone. Rap music - Gone.

FYI - this is just aimed at those molluscs who want maori only beaches.

[Blackshear]

Hmmm, sounds a lot like something a certain african country practised many years ago that had them shut off from the rest of the western world, economically, with sports...every way possible.
But of course this is all ok, because there is no racism in NZ.:Pokey:

Well let that be fine...if any of those particulars monkeys want to start playing that game, remove their rights to use ANYTHING brought here by europeans. Power - gone. Running water - Gone. Cars - Gone. Roads - Gone. Health care system - Gone. POT - Gone. P - Gone. KFC - Gone. SKY tv - Gone. Rap music - Gone.

FYI - this is just aimed at those molluscs who want maori only beaches.

I agree totally. If they think it's funny to take things for themself and not let other kids play on their playground, we'll take ours to ourself, too.
Forgive me gentlemen and ladies, but.
There are Niggers, and there are coloured skinned people.
One of the two deserves not a leg to stand on, nor the right to breathe in my goddamn fucking oxygen.

GIVE ME MY LUNCH MONEY, I'M TUFF EAU!
Pah.
I was defending myself, your honour.

[Slyer]

Here are my stances:

If a piece of land is privately owned, the owner should be able to allow or deny access to anyone for any reason. Including race, religion, political views whatever.
Beaches should never be privately owned.