Legal Q - Theft by employee of company

[Usarka]

Question for those in the know.....I used to know this but it seems the drugs do work....

If you (as a consumer) contract a company to provide a service and one of their employees steals something of yours in the process, is the company liable?

Some examples:


Take car to repair shop and one of the staff nicks your toolbox from the boot.
You contract for home repair with unattended access and they steal some jewellry
You leave something to be repaired and a staff member nicks it along with company cash etc and does a runner on the company.


And if they are liable, can they contract out of it?

Thanks in advance! :sherlock:

[AD345]

Yep

Nope

[Usarka]

You sure?

I know consequential damage is covered under the CGA, but doesn't theft make it a criminal matter therefore not covered in CGA?

Reason I'm asking is I'm dealing with a company who are saying they not liable and it's covered by my insurance etc - if they actually are then a) they are lying to me and I dont want to deal with them, and b) that probably also means that they will be a pain in the arse to get anything out of in the event of hypothetical incident.

[pete376403]

Isn't this the sort of thing that the companies Public Liability insurance covers?

[AD345]

Yep

Nope

[DingoZ]

Question for those in the know.....I used to know this but it seems the drugs do work....

If you (as a consumer) contract a company to provide a service and one of their employees steals something of yours in the process, is the company liable?

Some examples:


Take car to repair shop and one of the staff nicks your toolbox from the boot. Theft from a motorvehicle. Can be charged
You contract for home repair with unattended access and they steal some jewellry. Burglary, and or general theft. Can be charged
You leave something to be repaired and a staff member nicks it along with company cash etc and does a runner on the company. General theft. Can be charged

And if they are liable, can they contract out of it?

Thanks in advance! :sherlock:


Yup, most of the above are fairly good examples of criminal acts....

[Usarka]

Isn't this the sort of thing that the companies Public Liability insurance covers?
Not if they don't have it.

Yep

Nope

Bastards!

[Jantar]

You report it to the police as a theft, and give the details of the company that had the responsibility of care, and who you reasonably believe to have taken whatever. You then go to your insurance company and make a claim. The insurance company will chase it up, and its no longer your worry.

[jafar]

Not if they don't have it.

If they don't have public liability insurance that is their problem NOT YOURS.
Sue them for any & all losses. Anyone without the correct insurance is deemed to be their own insurer

[Meanie]

You report it to the police as a theft, and give the details of the company that had the responsibility of care, and who you reasonably believe to have taken whatever. You then go to your insurance company and make a claim. The insurance company will chase it up, and its no longer your worry.

Yep thats exactly what i would have said, Your insurance company will chase theirs or them if they have no cover

[Usarka]

Even if you give them unattended access to your house?


No cover for theft by certain people ...... ii. any temporary guest

Edit: Just realised AMI have a 24hr phone number, and by the letter of the contract I am not covered, however they will look at it on a case by case basis.

Might be something to bear in mind huh.......

Thanks for the helps.

[BiK3RChiK]

I would never give anyone unattended access to my house. I would make sure I was able to be there when the service person arrived until they left.

[Usarka]

I would never give anyone unattended access to my house. I would make sure I was able to be there when the service person arrived until they left.

Bit of a bind though if it's a big job. If I take off the time from work to babysit them I might as well save the money and do it myself. Some holiday that'd be!

[Jantar]

Originally Posted by AMI Policy
No cover for theft by certain people ...... ii. any temporary guest
I would hardly believe that a contractor is a guest.

[Winston001]

Your question mixes two different areas of liability:

1. Criminal - only relates to the offender - for the police to act on, if they recover stuff all good, or get compenation from the offender - tui

2. Civil liability - which means you can sue the business whom you contracted to do the work. They owe you a duty of care to ensure your property is protected while their employee is there.

Your own insurance company should cover you for theft but if you aren't insured, police and Disputes Tribunal are where you go.

[Usarka]

I would hardly believe that a contractor is a guest.

The lovely lady at AMI who confirmed with her supervisor seems to disagree.

[HenryDorsetCase]

If you have the slightest question or concern that the staff of a company you may be contracting with may steal from you then surely the answer is you dont contract with them? And why do you think this might happen? Or has it already?

seems very strange question to me.

[Usarka]

If you have the slightest question or concern that the staff of a company you may be contracting with may steal from you then surely the answer is you dont contract with them? And why do you think this might happen? Or has it already?

seems very strange question to me.
Fair enough, whatever you said sounds pretty weird to me.

Maybe I've been watching target too much. But having complete strangers in my house is a little concerning without insurance. The company I am, sorry was, dealing with is a large one, the boss man is not the grunt doing the work.

I work in a business that busts a lot of employees with no prior records, many of whom I'm sure have been decent people, simply because of the temptation involved.

[Winston001]

Originally Posted by AMI Policy
No cover for theft by certain people ...... ii. any temporary guest


Hmmm....that needs a bit of research and would require a judge if it hasn't been argued before - but likely it has.

Can understand AMI's point - don't want to cover you for theft by your invited visitors.

That doesn't excuse the business owner though, just means you'd have to sue yourself and Disputes Tribunal is appropriate.

In the USA ( and probably elsewhere) reputable businesses are bonded to cover such claims arising from their employees actions. The bond is a type of guarantee insurance.

[Big Dave]

Arse Biscuit.

[Owl]

The lovely lady at AMI who confirmed with her supervisor seems to disagree.

The lovely lady at AMI who was the supervisor, seemed to disagree with my Missus too!

Good thing my Missus is in the industry and knew enough about policy wordings to keep them on their toes!

We got what we were entitled to, but it didn't stop them treating us like criminal's and making things difficult.

So now that I've seen first hand how far they'll go to get out of paying, I'm now spending my money elsewhere!:yes:

[Usarka]

So now that I've seen first hand how far they'll go to get out of paying, I'm now spending my money elsewhere!:yes:

(Precisely my concerns on both parties concerned... )

Recommendations for elsewhere (insurance that is ;))?

[Owl]

(Precisely my concerns on both parties concerned... )

Recommendations for elsewhere (insurance that is ;))?

Contact a broker and get quotes! At least then you'll have the benefit of them working on your behalf.

[Naki Rat]

Contact a broker and get quotes! At least then you'll have the benefit of them working on your behalf.

Consumer do a pretty comprehensive survey of house and contents insurance each year (last was April '08). There's a lot more than low premiums involved in the choice of the right insurer but in their words "Some insurers offer much better cover than others, and the differences are not always reflected in price".

Incidentally AMI, whom we personally use and are very satisfied with, come out about middle of the heap in the Consumer survey. Worth taking your claim request further up their food chain before jumping out of that frying pan?

[Skyryder]

Question for those in the know.....I used to know this but it seems the drugs do work....

If you (as a consumer) contract a company to provide a service and one of their employees steals something of yours in the process, is the company liable?

Some examples:


Take car to repair shop and one of the staff nicks your toolbox from the boot.
You contract for home repair with unattended access and they steal some jewellry
You leave something to be repaired and a staff member nicks it along with company cash etc and does a runner on the company.


And if they are liable, can they contract out of it?

Thanks in advance! :sherlock:

Unless specified in the contract the company will only be liable to carry out it's contractual duties for which it is contracted to perform and to a standard specified either in law or to a standard specified in the contract. Damage etc would be covered with their liabilty.

It would be most unusual for a company to accept responsibility by way of a contract for their employees honesty although this would be 'implied' by their employment with the company unless the company was aware of their emplyees dishonesty.

Follow Janatars advice.

Skyryder

[Usarka]

Called insurer again today to see if i could clear it up or add a special clause, and nope.


Follow Janatars advice.


What, go to my insurer who says I'm NOT covered? :scratch:

[Owl]

Worth taking your claim request further up their food chain before jumping out of that frying pan?

The claim was sorted and we received everything we were entitled to dude! It was the way it was handled that was the problem and no financial saving would be worth having to deal with AMI again.:mad:

[Winston001]

Unless specified in the contract the company will only be liable to carry out it's contractual duties for which it is contracted to perform and to a standard specified either in law or to a standard specified in the contract. Damage etc would be covered with their liabilty.

It would be most unusual for a company to accept responsibility by way of a contract for their employees honesty although this would be 'implied' by their employment with the company unless the company was aware of their emplyees dishonesty.

Disagree. Duty of care. If you undertake to do something for another person, you are responsible for the forseeable consequences. So if you take a job requiring entry to someones house and you send an employee, you are liable in civil law for what he does. Nothing to do with jail or fine etc. Just money. Compensation.

Imagine your farm-worker lets your bulls get onto a public road and a milk-tanker comes along.....Expensive things milk tankers. Fonterra won't bother suing the farm worker, they'll sue the farmer.

Follow Janatars advice.

Skyryder[/quote]