Now that's a warranty [Archive]

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marks

21st January 2009, 08:46

Spoke to Motorad in Wgtn yesterday re the skyrocketing oil consumption of my KLR. Had a call this morning saying bring it in on 2nd Feb for a fix - no questions - no mileage tests

simply AWESOME.

Paladin

21st January 2009, 10:25

ducatijim

21st January 2009, 12:05

You shoulda gotta DR eh Mark!!!!!

Mine done 50000km, all hard ridn, trackdays,hours bogged in sand .....and......

......she still don't know the taste of oil!!!!!!!!:drool:

wysper

21st January 2009, 12:07

You shoulda gotta DR eh Mark!!!!!

Mine done 50000km, all hard ridn, trackdays,hours bogged in sand .....and......

......she still don't know the taste of oil!!!!!!!!:drool:

Imagine how much better she would run if you actually put some oil in :whistle::2thumbsup

Digitdion

21st January 2009, 19:52

pete376403

21st January 2009, 20:30

We both owe a vote of thanks to Dion for getting the facts on the piston rings that set the precedent.

Pretty hard for Lyntech to argue with the e-mails from the factory that say the rings have been altered, since the introduction of the '08s, to reduce oil consumption.

Pickle

21st January 2009, 22:15

Also dont run the KLR's on synthetic oil, better the old mineral stuff. My KLR has done nearly 50thou & doesnt use oil. Change regularly, clean air filters all basic maintenance, run forever.

ducatijim

22nd January 2009, 13:03

Also dont run the KLR's on synthetic oil,...

Great advice there, its WAY too dear if they develope a taste for synthetic......you know>>> champagnae taste on the beer pocket book kinda thing!!:2thumbsup

tri boy

22nd January 2009, 18:11

Will they give the ugly fat pig a liposuction:dodge:, and horsepower implants while they are at it?:doctor::devil2:

Padmei

22nd January 2009, 18:42

Spoke to Motorad in Wgtn yesterday re the skyrocketing oil consumption of my KLR. Had a call this morning saying bring it in on 2nd Feb for a fix - no questions - no mileage tests

simply AWESOME.

Hey Marks

When did you start to notice the oil consumption? Did you keep a note on levels during the oil changes or was it looking at the sight glass on the side & notice it dropping? Or was it billowing smoke?

Ive done 8k so far but hasn't dropped past the sight level yet beween changes (approx 3-4k apart).

After all the paranoia about the 08 I thought it's no big deal if I had to be adding a bit of oil every month or so. What's your story or has it already been written somewhere.

cheers
c

Woodman

22nd January 2009, 20:00

I know mine isn't an 08 or 09, but it only uses oil when it gets caned, other than that it is sweet. There is a mod where you put a pcv valve in the breather which I'm gonna do this weekend that reduces oil consumption. May be different on the new ones though.

Oscar

22nd January 2009, 20:09

Hey Marks

When did you start to notice the oil consumption?

cheers
c

Oil consumption would have reduced the power output by 50% (to 5 hp)....:bleh:

Quasievil

22nd January 2009, 20:16

Also dont run the KLR's on synthetic oil, better the old mineral stuff. My KLR has done nearly 50thou & doesnt use oil. Change regularly, clean air filters all basic maintenance, run forever.

Really ? run your bike on inferior oil why would you do that, does inferior Mineral oil offer better engine protection....nope....... does inferior Mineral oil make give a bike better fuel consumption nope............does inferior Mineral oil allow longer time/distance between oil changes.........nope, does inferior Mineral oil offer any advantage over superior synthetic oil........nope

Sorry not being a smart arse (not really) but I find it amazing that people say Mineral oil has advantages over synthetic, which in a round about way is what your post reads as. Its simply not possible, the only advantage Mineral has over Synthetic is its cheaper to use initially, but its a false economy as the long term bennifits of synthetic outway the short term advantage of mineral oil, such as reduced maintenace costs engine wear and improved fuel economy, to mention but a few.

At worst use a semi Synthetic, never use a 100 % Mineral basestock based product, polyalphaolefins Group 4 basestock oil is the only thing you should aspire to use.

Yup Im in the industry lol

Padmei

22nd January 2009, 20:29

Oil consumption would have reduced the power output by 50% (to 5 hp)....:bleh:

Oh Hahahahah absolutely hilarious. ahem

Woodman

22nd January 2009, 20:41

Oh Hahahahah absolutely hilarious. ahem

It keeps them amused.:yawn:

warewolf

22nd January 2009, 20:57

Really ? run your bike on inferior oil why would you do thatBecause KLRs are not high performance bikes, really they are as cheap as their owners! :bleh: You don't need top-shelf megabuck oil in an ordinary engine. Semi-synth is a good call, but about the max quality I'd put in a bike of that calibre.

Plus, a lesser quality oil may let the piston rings stay bedded in better, resulting in lower consumption. Ya know, along the lines of the run-it-in-on-mineral-oil idea.

Quasievil

22nd January 2009, 21:05

Because KLRs are not high performance bikes, really they are as cheap as their owners! :bleh: You don't need top-shelf megabuck oil in an ordinary engine. Semi-synth is a good call, but about the max quality I'd put in a bike of that calibre.

Plus, a lesser quality oil may let the piston rings stay bedded in better, resulting in lower consumption. Ya know, along the lines of the run-it-in-on-mineral-oil idea.

Ya reckon, a big single revs higher than a than 1 cylinder from a 4 cylinder bike at speed, so the performance is generally high.

You can buy a good quality Synthetic oil for around $70 which isnt really a huge amount in the scale of things.
I dont understand the ring thing you mean, temperatures are higher in a Mineral based oil engine and temps run lower in a synthetic based engine, if the rings are better bedded in it would be by fusion of the metals???

Not sure what you mean on that one dude.

warewolf

23rd January 2009, 09:15

Ya reckon, a big single revs higher than a than 1 cylinder from a 4 cylinder bike at speed, so the performance is generally high.That's debatable, actually the revs would be lower but the mass- and stroke-induced stress would be higher on the single.

The KLR is a low-tech, modest relaxed ouput, 20+ year old, cheap road/trail bike for the masses. Very good at its design brief, but it's not highly strung, nor built with fine tolerances and high output stresses that would demand top-notch oil. Note I am not saying top notch oil isn't better, just saying on this bike it is not necessary.

You can buy a good quality Synthetic oil for around $70 which isnt really a huge amount in the scale of things.Might be to a cheap KLR-owning bastard (some of my best friends are bastards etc etc) and semi-synth will always be cheaper again at the same discount/margin.

I dont understand the ring thing you mean, temperatures are higher in a Mineral based oil engine and temps run lower in a synthetic based engine, if the rings are better bedded in it would be by fusion of the metals???What I mean is that it is often recommended to run bikes in on other than full synth oils, the reason given is that the rings get better contact with the bore, so bed in and seal better. If the bike is consuming oil, then it could be because the bores are glazed (perhaps due to low combustion stresses), the rings not sealing properly, and need better contact with the bores a la run-in method.

If the rings are sealing properly, then you'll get less blow-by, less oil dilution from petrol which is better for every oil-lubricated moving part in the engine, better combustion so probably better economy - all from an oil that is ostensibly inferior to full synth.

"Fit for purpose" is my thinking here.

Oscar

23rd January 2009, 09:24

What I mean is that it is often recommended to run bikes in on other than full synth oils, the reason given is that the rings get better contact with the bore, so bed in and seal better. If the bike is consuming oil, then it could be because the bores are glazed (perhaps due to low combustion stresses), the rings not sealing properly, and need better contact with the bores a la run-in method.

If the rings are sealing properly, then you'll get less blow-by, less oil dilution from petrol which is better for every oil-lubricated moving part in the engine, better combustion so probably better economy - all from an oil that is ostensibly inferior to full synth.

"Fit for purpose" is my thinking here.

I agree.
Running a newish engine on synth or semi-synth is not going to help the rings bed in. You'll get a glaze rather than a seal.

Bass

23rd January 2009, 11:32

I agree.
Running a newish engine on synth or semi-synth is not going to help the rings bed in. You'll get a glaze rather than a seal.

Hear hear!
The problem is that the fully synthetic IS a better oil than the mineral base to the extent that it can threaten the clutch operation on some designs.
The bedding-in process is actually a mild honing where the rings and the bore abrade each other to achieve a sealing fit.
Top quality synthetics can lower the coefficient of friction to the point where this doesn't happen and so the rings never seal properly.
Run in on a mineral oil and then change to synthetic (if the clutch will cope) is the way to go.

pete376403

23rd January 2009, 14:29

This is one of the things Motorad told me after they replaced the rings in my KLR - use semi-synth (or straight mineral) rather than synthetic. So thats whats it got and it seems to be working.

I suspect another reason for the oil issue is crankcase pressurisation - it's a big piston so there is a lot of air moving around in the cases. If the breather system is less than adequate,pressure will build up and push oil down the guides or up past the rings (esp at times of high cylinder vacuum eg on overrun). Some of the tips of the KLR forums advise putting an automotive PCV in the breather hose between the crankcase and the airbox. (as already noted by Woodman)

Woodman

24th January 2009, 08:02

Once the rings are bedded you should be able to run any oil you want. What must be remembered is that a ring is basically a seal therefore the smoothest surface they can run on the better. A ring only seals on the bottom of the ring land and the bore.

Just imagine if you could harness the two suction strokes into the crank case to feed the one inlet filling stroke of the cylinder. Thats a 2 to 1 supercharging effect. Off topic I know but interesting.

marks

24th January 2009, 17:04

Good luck Marks! Lets hope they do you right. I am sure they are good to deal with. But there is one reason why they are so keen to please. Thats because there have already been cases of your model of bike being oil guzzlers. Lets hope they sort out the problem 1st time.

Good luck!
When I first spoke to them some months ago it was 'oh thats odd - we'll have to talk to Kawasaki'

I suspect that since then people like you and Pete and thousands of others have made them reluctantly acknowledge that there is a major problem.

The later 08's and all the 09's don't have the problem so as long as they use the same later parts (some earlier repairs replaced faulty rings with more faulty early design rings) than all should be good - or at least a lot better than 1.2l per 1000km

Will they give the ugly fat pig a liposuction:dodge:, and horsepower implants while they are at it?:doctor::devil2:

You're a fine one to talk - lets see - your bikes only 20-30 kilos heavier and - oh yeah - its no faster up to about 120k's so :finger:

Hey Marks

When did you start to notice the oil consumption? Did you keep a note on levels during the oil changes or was it looking at the sight glass on the side & notice it dropping? Or was it billowing smoke?

Ive done 8k so far but hasn't dropped past the sight level yet beween changes (approx 3-4k apart).

After all the paranoia about the 08 I thought it's no big deal if I had to be adding a bit of oil every month or so. What's your story or has it already been written somewhere.

cheers
c
I think yours would be made after they fixed the problem.
Mine used 400-600ml per 1000k when I brought it with 17KM on the clock. Once I started riding it 'enthusiastically' the oil consumption went nuts. Any repeated full throttle stuff between 5000/7000rpm and it gets a serious drinking problem (600ml on a run from Reefton to Picton - I was late for the ferry though :rolleyes:) .

Oil consumption would have reduced the power output by 50% (to 5 hp)....:bleh:
Its output might be small - but its perfectly formed
I have a lot of fun thrashing a slow loud bike:banana:
put me on a 950/990 and I wouldn't last a week - no self control and even less skill

Because KLRs are not high performance bikes, really they are as cheap as their owners! :bleh: You don't need top-shelf megabuck oil in an ordinary engine. Semi-synth is a good call, but about the max quality I'd put in a bike of that calibre.
you're off my christmas card list :Pokey:

Paladin

24th January 2009, 17:21

Come on Mark, stop keeping us all in suspense - what's the new bike? :Playnice:

marks

24th January 2009, 18:32

Come on Mark, stop keeping us all in suspense - what's the new bike? :Playnice:

sorry to not be available for Odlins Rd today Dave

here (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8897582&postcount=265) is the first part of my excuse :wari:

pete376403

24th January 2009, 20:19

So what are you going to do with the "old" one? (which is the correct colour, BTW)

I'd like to get some pictures and measurements of the centrestand, see if I can fabricate one.

Paladin

24th January 2009, 22:48

sorry to not be available for Odlins Rd today Dave

here (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8897582&postcount=265) is the first part of my excuse :wari:

Well after reading that "Options" list and seeing the price I reckon you are suitably excused from not being available for Odlins today! Looks like a great purchase mate!!! :2thumbsup

(am damn jealous!!!) :crybaby:

Am sure a group of us will make Odlins soon enough!

marks

25th January 2009, 08:18

Well after reading that "Options" list and seeing the price I reckon you are suitably excused from not being available for Odlins today! Looks like a great purchase mate!!! :2thumbsup

(am damn jealous!!!) :crybaby:

Am sure a group of us will make Odlins soon enough!

As an all road tourer its perfect for me as is but as I like doing stuff like Odlins Rd and Orongorongo I will add my Motech crash bars, serrated pegs and rekluse clutch (and the Jardine can to make it sound 'proper') plus the TKC/E09 tires (plus rim locks and heavy duty tubes) off my existing bike. Then I've just got to sort the jetting out a bit and it will be as close to perfect for my needs/skill as you can get.

And yes I am keen to do Odlins Rd soon.

BTW - finished the ride report

OV Lander

25th January 2009, 08:49

marks

25th January 2009, 11:23

You are of course assuming that those over priced cowboys can fix it!

where're you been hiding - bout time you dusted off the Dakar and came out for a ride isn't it?

Petes repair seems ok so hopefully they can do it right twice in a row

Padmei

26th January 2009, 19:13

Mark congrats with the purchase:2thumbsup what a list of extras. The previous owner must have been a seppo or kept a secret wad of cash in the States.

When you are down this way again I would love to hook up & compare the 685 with mine. Do you notice any difference in power (cue hysterical laughter from KTM girlieboys & incoherent snorts from DR dribblers:girlfight:)

I was actually thinking as I rode during the weekend that if I had more power I would end up off the road a lot more:crazy:

Are you going to sell your 'old' 08 & are they putting better rings in?

marks

27th January 2009, 07:32

Mark congrats with the purchase:2thumbsup what a list of extras. The previous owner must have been a seppo or kept a secret wad of cash in the States.
He (Shards) was on holiday in Canada and picked up all the bits. Shards was the perfect person to buy from - a self confessed 'anal retentive' bike fiddler and maintainer - the bike looked new and all the mods seem to have been installed to a very high standard.

When you are down this way again I would love to hook up & compare the 685 with mine. Do you notice any difference in power (cue hysterical laughter from KTM girlieboys & incoherent snorts from DR dribblers:girlfight:)
I hope to be down your way at the end of Feb - I'll pm you so we can meet up and you can take it for a blat. Power increase is less than the american forums would have you believe. the thing is KLR riders have normal sized peckers so they don't need to compensate with high HP like KTM owners do.

I was actually thinking as I rode during the weekend that if I had more power I would end up off the road a lot more:crazy: The power is still super soft so its never going to bite you like something high performance and snappy will.

Are you going to sell your 'old' 08 & are they putting better rings in?
My son is considering buying the 08 - if not I'll sell it soon. Hopefully Motorad will put a new barrell, piston, 09 style rings etc etc in - its being done next week - then I'll take it on a 500k ride to check its ok.

pete376403

27th January 2009, 21:09

marks

27th January 2009, 21:46

Did Motorad suggest you would be getting a new barrel and piston? They put new rings on the original piston, a light hone of the cylinder and new valve guide seals. However if that is all it needed than that's ok.

no
I assumed they would based on the repairs quoted on american klr forums. my understanding is that if all they do is put the same type of rings on the original piston then the problem will not be fixed. To my knowledge the late 08's and 09's have different pistons and rings to the early bikes.

Hows your oil consumption now?

cheers

Mark

pete376403

28th January 2009, 18:50

there are two different part numbers for '08 rings, (which are different again from the '07 and earlier.) This is the info that I got from digitdions e-mails from Kawasaki japan. The first '08 part number is the burner, the second part number is (supposedly) the fix and I would assume this number is carried over to the '09s.

So far as I know, it's ok now. Haven't checked since we went over Wainui.
Put it in the shed after that ride and only got it out to clean / pull of all the bits of duct tape / etc last weekend.

The fairing lower is a bit of a mess, don't know if it's salvagable.

marks

10th February 2009, 21:27

finally got the 08 back from Motorad today - so much for it only taking a couple of days.

They only replaced rings - didn't touch anything else other than doing a light hone.

Bike seems to be running fine - I'll do a decent 300-500k run sometime over the next few weekends to see if its fixed.

I put mineral oil in it before I took it in and did lots of accel/decel cycles on the 100k (via Akatarawas) ride home - hopefully that will help the rings bed in as good as they can.

NordieBoy

11th February 2009, 06:48

I put mineral oil in it before I took it in and did lots of accel/decel cycles on the 100k (via Akatarawas) ride home - hopefully that will help the rings bed in as good as they can.

:niceone: That's the way to do it.
It's a good feeling when you know you are running it in and you're not relying on how somebody else did it.

My 1979 XR250 still had honeing marks in the bore when we looked down it in about 2004. It'd been run in so gently.
I ran it in over a classic mx fun day and each lap you swore it accellerated better and better.