Blind man assaulted in Chch [Archive]

firefighter

22nd January 2009, 11:37

holy fucken shit........ :Oi:

A mentally disabled, blind man was attacked in broad daylight outside one of Christchurch's most exclusive retail stores.

Police say the man was waiting for a bus outside Ballantynes department store around 11am last Saturday when he was abused by three men.

Constable Aaron Campbell said attackers harassed the man about his disabilities, before one of them punched him in the face knocking him to the ground.

The man had tried to walk away but the men followed him and continued to verbally abuse him, he said.

The man returned to the bus-stop, and was once again pushed to the ground.

Mr Campbell said a member of the public, possibly a woman, yelled at the offenders causing them to flee on foot.

A male member of the public helped him clean the blood from his cane, he said.

"The victim suffers from intellectual disability and is almost totally blind. He walks with a bob as a result of having a stroke as a child."

Police are urging anyone who witnessed the attack or has information about the incident to contact them at Christchurch police station.

http://www.stuff.co.nz//4826544a11.html

slofox

22nd January 2009, 11:40

wow...heroes huh?

Mully

22nd January 2009, 11:41

Jesus Christ!! What's happening to this country?

batboy

22nd January 2009, 11:43

as much as this sucks, they will only get a slap on the wrist IF they are caught.
Police in chch at the moment are waaaay to focused on this "boy racer" problem to actually do much community policing.And anyone who has walked around that area will know its infested with little hood rat gangsta wannbe fags who should be moved on as they loiter there all day

samgab

22nd January 2009, 11:49

ManDownUnder

22nd January 2009, 11:51

Catch them
Put them in Stocks outside the same shop
Invite the press
Give the guy that was attacked a packet of month old eggs and Court sanction to use them

Curious_AJ

22nd January 2009, 11:59

that's just not on... pricks who think they're big when they beat up someone as unfortunate as that should be hung up by their scrotal sacks and left to die.

firefighter

22nd January 2009, 12:13

Absolutely disgusting, I am starting to feel more and more inclined towards vigilante justice- in cases like this I can't see it doing any harm. Seriously, if the little pricks die as an end result then that would suit me down to the ground, absolutely cretinous behaviour.

And to think, New Zealanders take the piss out of yanks- I tell you what you did that in the states and that lady that yelled out would have pulled a handgun out of her purse and shot the little fuckers.

nudemetalz

22nd January 2009, 12:21

And to think, New Zealanders take the piss out of yanks- I tell you what you did that in the states and that lady that yelled out would have pulled a handgun out of her purse and shot the little fuckers.

The problem with that is those looser arsewipes would have handguns themselves to make up for their penile deficiency. Then it's an all out :ar15: and innocent people get caught up in it.
However, I would have shot the pricks also !!! :mad:

Tank

22nd January 2009, 12:22

firefighter

22nd January 2009, 12:26

hmmmmmm, yeah maybe, to be honest this sort of thing is'nt happening as much in the U.S because the crims know that most people have guns and are prepared to use them- besides, most nz crims have guns now anyway- so it's just evening up the fight.

firefighter

22nd January 2009, 12:27

Meh - didn't he see it coming?
(p/t above obviously - for the slow of thunking) - Its disgusting behaviour - they need to have appropriate sentencing for this kind of shit. It should be jail time - not some fine and a Whanau conference.

I think that will just make them worse, put them down. They'll only get worse and do worse if they have'nt already....

yungatart

22nd January 2009, 12:28

Unfortunately, this kind of episode will likely happen more often as personal responsiblity and decent values are legislated out of existence in good ol NZ.

Very sad.

firefighter

22nd January 2009, 15:41

Bump, for the crowd who have'nt had a chance to see it here ya go. Some more of N.Zs finest.

skidMark

22nd January 2009, 18:04

What... the... fuck.

Some pricks don't deserve to live.

cs363

22nd January 2009, 18:08

Jesus Christ!! What's happening to this country?

X 2 My sentiments exactly. Too much scum floating to the surface of late

skidMark

22nd January 2009, 18:14

X 2 My sentiments exactly. Too much scum floating to the surface of late

Time to get more cops and prisons eh.

cs363

22nd January 2009, 18:16

Time to get more cops and prisons eh.

No stuff that, I don't want my taxes paying for 3 meals a day, heated floors, LCD tv's and so on for twats like that.
Far cheaper to sort out a convenient wall, some blindfolds and a few dollars worth of bullets :)

mashman

22nd January 2009, 18:28

No stuff that, I don't want my taxes paying for 3 meals a day, heated floors, LCD tv's and so on for twats like that.
Far cheaper to sort out a convenient wall, some blindfolds and a few dollars worth of bullets :)

Bang on, why should we foot the bill for these inbred lazy tossers. I'm more than happy to supply the wall and bullets, no need for blindfolds as i'd happily stare them in the eye and plug 'em...

Nothing short of death will stop this sort of behaviour... everyone knows it, but everyone in the "civilised world" makes up excuses and let's these guys carry on bullying people... There are plenty of examples around the world where people, i use the term loosely, forfeit their life because of their "mistakes" and why shouldn't they. Africans poor petrol over rapists and set them alight in the center of the village, the Arabs cut off the hand you don't wipe your ass with when you steal... Would any of the above 2 deter you from commiting those crimes... i'm sure there a tonnes of suitable punishments for crime around the world, but people stop seeing it as barbaric it ain't gonna change any time soon...

If, for arguments sake, 80% of the country requested similar punishments as above, would the government listen to their people???

firefighter

22nd January 2009, 18:32

If, for arguments sake, 80% of the country requested similar punishments as above, would the government listen to their people???

Nope, remember the anti-smacking bill? :oi-grr:

I agree though, i'm known for my callous views toward crimminals

mashman

22nd January 2009, 18:34

Nope, remember the anti-smacking bill? :oi-grr:

I agree though, i'm known for my callous views toward crimminals

Thanks for the example, but it more of a rhetorical question... they don't serve the people, they serve business and placate the people with tax breaks...

Genestho

22nd January 2009, 21:21

Its so out of hand...ugh.

The sad thing is, you take the damn tv away and they get reperation for violation of human rights...this pc crap is sucking at the core of us, we just continue to breed it.

oldrider

22nd January 2009, 21:29

JimO

22nd January 2009, 21:37

Catch them
Put them in Stocks outside the same shop
Invite the press
Give the guy that was attacked a packet of month old eggs and Court sanction to use them

he is blind so would probably miss with the eggs

rachprice

22nd January 2009, 21:58

X 2 My sentiments exactly. Too much scum floating to the surface of late

x3

Bang on, why should we foot the bill for these inbred lazy tossers. I'm more than happy to supply the wall and bullets, no need for blindfolds as i'd happily stare them in the eye and plug 'em...

Nothing short of death will stop this sort of behaviour... everyone knows it, but everyone in the "civilised world" makes up excuses and let's these guys carry on bullying people... There are plenty of examples around the world where people, i use the term loosely, forfeit their life because of their "mistakes" and why shouldn't they. Africans poor petrol over rapists and set them alight in the center of the village, the Arabs cut off the hand you don't wipe your ass with when you steal... Would any of the above 2 deter you from commiting those crimes... i'm sure there a tonnes of suitable punishments for crime around the world, but people stop seeing it as barbaric it ain't gonna change any time soon...

If, for arguments sake, 80% of the country requested similar punishments as above, would the government listen to their people???

Interesting thought.... im pretty sure there wouldn't be 80%, be curious to know how much though, a lot of people might not admit to it.

Robbo

22nd January 2009, 22:20

Yep! Absolute F**kin heroes are'nt they. I would like to see them have the livin crap beat out of them and then be shot. Society does'nt need or want lowlife scumbags like this.
:mad:

Brian d marge

23rd January 2009, 02:55

Bang on, why should we foot the bill for these inbred lazy tossers. I'm more than happy to supply the wall and bullets, no need for blindfolds as i'd happily stare them in the eye and plug 'em...

Nothing short of death will stop this sort of behaviour... everyone knows it, but everyone in the "civilised world" makes up excuses and let's these guys carry on bullying people... There are plenty of examples around the world where people, i use the term loosely, forfeit their life because of their "mistakes" and why shouldn't they. Africans poor petrol over rapists and set them alight in the center of the village, the Arabs cut off the hand you don't wipe your ass with when you steal... Would any of the above 2 deter you from commiting those crimes... i'm sure there a tonnes of suitable punishments for crime around the world, but people stop seeing it as barbaric it ain't gonna change any time soon...

If, for arguments sake, 80% of the country requested similar punishments as above, would the government listen to their people???

Sorry it has never worked , google Mary Watson . 19 years old Hung with a baby still in her arms , crime rate didnt change , there were plenty more where that came from .....

I want broadband , and I want cable tv , they need ditches to be dug , I know 3 yoffs who would be my first choice , and they can do it in a pink dress too

Stephen

dangerous

23rd January 2009, 05:05

Blind man assaulted in Chch
When the hell is the GVT, police AND the public going to do something about these wee cunts... its getting out of hand now and all cos the wankie P/C brigade.

wont happen will it.. these fuckers seem to have the right to cause damage and harm.

Oakie

23rd January 2009, 07:58

Saw something like that a year or two back in the Bus Exchange here in Christchurch. A couple of young smart arses taunting an intellectually disabled guy obviously trying to make him lash out so they could wack him in 'self defense'. After a while his bus came and he made his getaway unmolested. The two dickwads then left the Exchange. They weren't even waiting for a bus. Just looking for a fight.

laserracer

23rd January 2009, 08:11

if ya gonna spend some money on bullets to get rid of these lo.lives.....you might as well spend a little more and get HOLLOW POINTS ....OR THE REALLY CHEAP OPTION ..A ROPE AND A TREE..i'll supply the rope and the tree..and kick the box out from under there legs..I say stop catering for these bastards
and locking them up in holiday camps ...GET RID OF THE PRICKS..FOR GOOD

Lias

23rd January 2009, 08:25

Bring back Corporal Punishment
Bring back Capital Punishment

Problem solved.

roogazza

23rd January 2009, 09:11

At my age, if I shot those three crapheads, the public wouldn't have to pay for my keep for very long.

It would be a good trade off, me instead of those three! (disgusting pieces of shit)

I think I have a solution to two problems here. :rolleyes:

How latteral is that! :headbang: John.

What a great little retirement job for me . I just need a bag limit and what I can use. Think of the job satisfaction. Gaz.

mashman

23rd January 2009, 12:58

Sorry it has never worked , google Mary Watson . 19 years old Hung with a baby still in her arms , crime rate didnt change , there were plenty more where that came from .....

Stephen

After scrambling through umpteen billion Spider-Man threads i still couldn't find the Mary Watson thing you're referring to... Post a linky iffen ya get the chance...

Brian d marge

23rd January 2009, 13:40

After scrambling through umpteen billion Spider-Man threads i still couldn't find the Mary Watson thing you're referring to... Post a linky iffen ya get the chance...

Sorry My bad

http://www.capitalpunishmentuk.org/mjones.html

I blame old age and forgetfullness , Mary Jones

Still I found another page as well ,,,grim reading ,,,,,,,,,,

http://www.capitalpunishmentuk.org/contents.html

Stephen

wbks

23rd January 2009, 14:22

So what about all the people that could have been hung, but got out of jail months later to kill other people? There would be more cases of that then bad cases of capital punishment

Brian d marge

23rd January 2009, 16:13

So what about all the people that could have been hung, but got out of jail months later to kill other people? There would be more cases of that then bad cases of capital punishment

the point being the punishment didn't effect , the crime rate ........

Stephen

Robbo

23rd January 2009, 16:59

the point being the punishment didn't effect , the crime rate ........

Stephen

Maybe not but it sure as hell stops re-offending
:nono:

pete376403

23rd January 2009, 21:09

Yep, you just KNOW those chinese guys won't be getting out of jail and back into the melamine business.
And others might be deterred from offering industrial chemicals as protein booster as well.

firefighter

23rd January 2009, 21:29

Maybe not but it sure as hell stops re-offending
:nono:

Precisely.And saves a shit load of money keeping them alive and "rehabilitating" them

Iggy

23rd January 2009, 22:01

Iam absolutley revolted by this kind of behavior, the PC brigade are winning the battle against the victims rights of fair justice!!!!
Am sad to say but the minority vote has bulllocked its way into parlament on passing laws on protecting the criminals " Human Rights "
Thanks very much for proportional representation. Its a bloody bullocks, shoot the scumbags!!!:Oi:

wbks

23rd January 2009, 22:01

the point being the punishment didn't effect , the crime rate ........

StephenLike Firefighter and robbo said, it stops re-offending and costs a lot less then housing them. As someone who has been effected, and had loved ones been affected (badly) by re-offenders I recommend the death penalty, or at least life in prison being thrown about more freely. The way the system works at the moment is that lowly sentences are handed out only making criminals worse untill the point where they do something which will earn them decent time (like murder) which by then is too late. And its pretty widely known (ask any cop) that there is an incentive to keep as many people out of jail as possible because of funding and not enough jail room as possible.

Dean

23rd January 2009, 22:21

this is the most disgusting act ever i dont know how some punks on the street could do such a thing to a blind man.i swear if i was there i would of gone crazy mind you though lucky i wasnt there because if i was i would of either been charged for murder or spent the next couple of nights in the cell.what im wondering was if this blind man was attacked in the city how long did it take for someone to scare away these street punks

imdying

24th January 2009, 08:27

Doesn't really matter that he was disabled, he probably just wants to be treated like everyone else.

Those cowards attacked an unarmed innocent citizen is what we should worried about... Disabled man today, your momma tomorrow? Maybe even you? Me?

I'm all for taking their arms off above the elbow myself. They'll do a lot of things in life after that, but punching someone in the head won't be one of them. Maybe whacking someone with a stump I guess :lol:

mashman

26th January 2009, 11:39

Sorry it has never worked , google Mary Watson . 19 years old Hung with a baby still in her arms , crime rate didnt change , there were plenty more where that came from ...

Cheers for the linky...

There's something to be said for there being a Status Quo? Society has moved on somewhat from the 16th Century and unfortunately society has softened along the way, adding isms and ologies to explain, and excuse, why people commit their crimes... Take a look at the graph at the foot of this page http://www.capitalpunishmentuk.org/abolish.html, (You sent this link... death penalty for murder being abolished in 1965) and then come back and tell me that it wasn't a deterrent...

I'm ok with giving jail time in cases that can't be proven without a doubt, but i'm talking about places that mimic the prisons of third world countries, not the hotels that we provide today...

The thing that gets me is that politicians are making these decisions for us and they aren't exactly from the same planet as most of us (the smackin bill showing how out of touch they are). It would be nice for the citizens of the country to be consulted on the issue of capital punishment. Of the people I have spoken to over the last week or so, since this thread popped up, i'd say (granted it's a kneejerk reaction) that a good 75 - 85 percent have agreed that they would back the reintroduction of capital punishment...

Perhaps Close Up or some other similar program could get the ball rolling, canvass the general public with carefully thought out questions, along with alternatives such as removing arms and the likes... get an awareness that there are alternatives to just sitting back and taking what's desalt out... Why in this climate are these questions not being asked? What are the politicians so scared of? They're currently trying to implement tougher measures and punishments that fit the crime, why not the Death Penalty... aAAAAAAaaaaaaAAzaaaaaaaa :bash:

Patrick

26th January 2009, 13:28

samgab

26th January 2009, 13:31

Oh yeah. We have tough guys in NZ beating on and robbing the blind, disabled, and young females.

It's a lovely development. What's next?
I was trying to think of something worse, like beating up babies, but unfortunately that is happening too.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10553609&ref=rss

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=91131

"A 28-year-old man has been charged over an assault on a 10-week-old baby in Lower Hutt.

Detective Senior Sergeant Scott Cooper said the baby was taken by ambulance to hospital early yesterday suffering bruising and a possible head injury.

The baby remained under observation in hospital today.

Mr Cooper said a man was charged with assault on a child and was due to appear in Lower Hutt District Court on Thursday.

Police would not say whether the man charged was the baby's father."

mashman

26th January 2009, 14:11

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10553609&ref=rss

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=91131

"A 28-year-old man has been charged over an assault on a 10-week-old baby in Lower Hutt.

Detective Senior Sergeant Scott Cooper said the baby was taken by ambulance to hospital early yesterday suffering bruising and a possible head injury.

The baby remained under observation in hospital today.

Mr Cooper said a man was charged with assault on a child and was due to appear in Lower Hutt District Court on Thursday.

Police would not say whether the man charged was the baby's father."

What a total and utter bastard!!! Fuck him up, make an example of him, how many babies have suffered (that we know about) over the last year...

Judge: "Guilty!!! My sympathies to all family members affected by this despicable act. This sort of behaviour cannot be tolerated, take him down please and await further instruction. Can a member of the offenders family rise please. Your choices are as follows: $100 for a bullet and $50 administrative charge (we've already got this bit finally) or you may have him cremated alive in which case it's just the administrative fee!!!"

Drunken Monkey

26th January 2009, 14:14

Bring back Corporal Punishment
Bring back Capital Punishment

Problem solved.

Sure. Anything you'd like to add to that? Prohibition worked too, didn't it? Perhaps you'd like to step up censorship here as well? 10pm curfews? No travel outside your town without the correct papers?

As much as some people may deserve a whipping, the cane or the firing squad I think you'll find these certainly won't "solve" the problem at all, otherwise we would imagine places like Texas to be the safest, most crime-free place in the world; this is obivously not the case.

On the other hand, it certainly stops repeat offending...

Drunken Monkey

26th January 2009, 14:16

samgab

26th January 2009, 14:23

Sure. Anything you'd like to add to that? Prohibition worked too, didn't it? Perhaps you'd like to step up censorship here as well? 10pm curfews? No travel outside your town without the correct papers?

As much as some people may deserve a whipping, the cane or the firing squad I think you'll find these certainly won't "solve" the problem at all, otherwise we would imagine places like Texas to be the safest, most crime-free place in the world; this is obivously not the case.

On the other hand, it certainly stops repeat offending...

So what is the solution?
What is to be done with people who beat up defenseless babies, the blind, the disabled, children, and such?

We don't want to pay for their upkeep in jail...
We don't want them in our communities...

Maybe anyone who does this sort of thing should be dumped from a helicopter onto a remote prison island and forgotten about forever.
No further cost to the tax payers, and no further threat to the community.
If they want to fight, make little gangs, kill each other, or whatever on that island, that's all fine.

mashman

26th January 2009, 14:30

Maybe anyone who does this sort of thing should be dumped from a helicopter onto a remote prison island and forgotten about forever.
No further cost to the tax payers, and no further threat to the community.
If they want to fight, make little gangs, kill each other, or whatever on that island, that's all fine.

They tried that and ended up with Australia...

It's like Drunken says, noone has the stomach for it, noone wants the responsibility for it, especially if they get it wrong... I'm all for the offending limb being removed... let's you know what they've been up to and to steer clear of them... but in clear cut cases, kill them.

I'll happily go and watch someone dying, i've seen those i've loved dye before my eyes... i'm pretty sure watching a stranger accused of atrocious crimes being executed isn't going to stress me too much... and if I know the intimate circumstances of the case i'll happily pull the lever, trigger, switch... and i'm sure i'm not alone...

samgab

26th January 2009, 14:34

They tried that and ended up with Australia...

It's like Drunken says, noone has the stomach for it, noone wants the responsibility for it, especially if they get it wrong... I'm all for the offending limb being removed... let's you know what they've been up to and to steer clear of them... but in clear cut cases, kill them.

I'll happily go and watch someone dying, i've seen those i've loved dye before my eyes... i'm pretty sure watching a stranger accused of atrocious crimes being executed isn't going to stress me too much... and if I know the intimate circumstances of the case i'll happily pull the lever, trigger, switch...

Eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth?
Great, except what if I get accused of rape, but they get the wrong guy, and cut off my penis, based on a mistaken identity or false claim?
That would suck.

mashman

26th January 2009, 14:57

Eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth?
Great, except what if I get accused of rape, but they get the wrong guy, and cut off my penis, based on a mistaken identity or false claim?
That would suck.

Nope. that's not the true meaning of the phrase an "eye for an eye etc...". I'd just like to see the correct punishment administered for the crime, no malice, purely logic... so if you did rape my dad :hug: and they get someone for it, I would imagine that they'll check for all sort of fluids in the offending area and not get the wrong person...

Don't get me wrong, I have an idea that justice is sometimes abused and people get set up,. I'm damn sure there are people who have been wrongly accused who are serving life sentences, or worse have been executed... I strive for the idea of the greater good, for the introduction of sodium pentathol (if it really is a true serum), lie detector tests, the basis that you are guilty until proven innocent for crimes of a serious nature... You're not going to win all of the time, but if you're in the wrong place at the wrong time now you're gonna suffer 20 years of watching your family tear their lives apart over a crime you didn't commit... Personally i'd rather they pout me 6 feet under and let my family and the families of those affected to get on with their lives... They call it social conscience i think...

Drunken Monkey

26th January 2009, 15:55

... for the introduction of sodium pentathol (if it really is a true serum),...

Yes, it's sodium thiopental. It doesn't really work as a "truth serum" per se, it just makes the subject highly suggestable. What you are told could still be rubbish, additionally someone under the influence of sodium thiopental could admit to anything.

... lie detector tests,...

The polygraph can be beaten and can be beaten with only a few minutes training. There are some additional measures polygraph testers take these days to help minimise you giving them rubbish results, but again the reality is the test is rubbish in enough cases that it's unreliable.

A more reliable method is using film to show changes in facial expressions on the micro scale; it takes you about 0.2 seconds to override your natural facial response and overlay it with a forced one.

Both of the methods are bollocks when used against expert liars; you can train yourself (or be trained to) to go through a sequence of events in your mind which are fictional over and over to the point they move from your imagination center (right brain) to your recall center (left brain), thus overriding your physical response to the 'lie'. A lot of 'scientific' testing on lying usually overlooks that part of lying and is typically employed where people have neither time to prepare to lie or don't believe the lie themselves.

But hey, lying's a whole other thread on it's own. I participated in a thesis on lying, it was very educational...

Samgab, I don't have a solution, I just know state sanctioned execution is rife with problems. Let alone executing an innocent (which is undeniably unacceptable).

HenryDorsetCase

26th January 2009, 16:26

Eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth?
Great, except what if I get accused of rape, but they get the wrong guy, and cut off my penis, based on a mistaken identity or false claim?
That would suck.

the only thing to do would be go the whole hog, have a full sex change, hormone therapy, boobies etc etc, and stay at home playing with your new boobies all day every day. you know it makes sense.

HenryDorsetCase

26th January 2009, 16:30

Additionally, I challenge all supporters of the death penalty who haven't done so yet to go to a country where it is legal, then sit in the public gallery (where applicable) and witness a few death sentances get carried out. The reality is most people don't have the stomach for it, which is why most civilised countries abolished such penalties. Remember it was common place even 80 years ago.

not sure that follows TBH. We are consumers, used to paying others to do things for us, you know, Jims mowing mows our lawns, Jims toilet cleaners comes and cleans our toilets, Jims babysitting looks after the kids. So Jims Humane state run execution services isnt that big a deal. If I have contracted someone to look after that shit for me, then I dont have to worry about it no more.

Drunken Monkey

26th January 2009, 16:47

Hmmm, interesting. I would have to respond that your argument would be indicative of a point-of-view in where human lives are reduced to that of any other consumable. Shall we put a dollar value on that then? Then we can trade people's lives as property between those that can afford to do so. Reeks of slavery to me. Although I have contemplated what a good life I could have had as a rich land owner with a few slaves of my own to work the fields, being on the other side of the proverbial stick wouldn't be much fun imho. But if buying peace of mind works for some, so be it.

Patrick

26th January 2009, 20:25

Additionally, I challenge all supporters of the death penalty who haven't done so yet to go to a country where it is legal, then sit in the public gallery (where applicable) and witness a few death sentances get carried out. The reality is most people don't have the stomach for it, which is why most civilised countries abolished such penalties. Remember it was common place even 80 years ago.

Picked up train diced people...

Scraped up motorcyclist brains...

Guarded multiple murder victims, killed with a hammer and knives....

Picked up leftovers of a shotgun under the chin...

Worked in the Auckland Mortuary....

Piece of piss.... Re-introduce it! Where do I sign up?

Hmmm, interesting. I would have to respond that your argument would be indicative of a point-of-view in where human lives are reduced to that of any other consumable. Shall we put a dollar value on that then?

$80,000 per year to keep the scum alive in the Mt Eden or Paremoremo Hilton.....

mashman

26th January 2009, 20:59

Yes, it's sodium thiopental. It doesn't really work as a "truth serum" per se, it just makes the subject highly suggestable.

sort of smilar too but quicker than sleep deprivation?

The polygraph can be beaten and can be beaten with only a few minutes training. There are some additional measures polygraph testers take these days to help minimise you giving them rubbish results, but again the reality is the test is rubbish in enough cases that it's unreliable.

I had heard that and I suppose once the lawyers get in on the act they'll bring in their specialist to train the "criminal" in how to beat it...

I'm just fed up with it and the fact that as things stand nothing can be done to deter pricks like this...

mashman

26th January 2009, 21:04

Hmmm, interesting. I would have to respond that your argument would be indicative of a point-of-view in where human lives are reduced to that of any other consumable. Shall we put a dollar value on that then?

This is already the case! As mentioned above we all do jobs, we put a dollar value on the cost of completing that job in terms of time and materials used... where's the difference? we're not trading in human lives, we're ending them due to breach of contract i.e. the law...

cs363

26th January 2009, 23:13

$80,000 per year to keep the scum alive in the Mt Eden or Paremoremo Hilton.....

Maybe it's just me, but there seems to be something very wrong with a system that taxpayers have to pay that kind of money per year to keep scum like this alive in relative comfort when said tax payer's average yearly wage is only a tad over half that.......

Drunken Monkey

27th January 2009, 08:39

HenryDorsetCase

27th January 2009, 08:44

HenryDorsetCase

27th January 2009, 08:46

I had heard that and I suppose once the lawyers get in on the act they'll bring in their specialist to train the "criminal" in how to beat it...

that strikes me as quite unethical, and grounds for being disbarred.

firefighter

27th January 2009, 08:54

True, I don't see what the problem is with hard labour and marginal living conditions.

Besides, I'm not saying I have a workable alternative, however I am yet to see supporters of the death penalty show some hard evidence that it is a fair and effective legal tool for a civilised state.

Fair and effective legal tool you ask?

hmmm, ok, i'll show how it's fair.

the victims, and family no-longer have to live in fear, and they do believe me they do.

A small chance for retribution for the family/victim.

Millions of dollars saved on housing said animals.

there is no chance of escape/parole. (family/victim now has fear of this also removed)

Community and country as whole better off with one less monster in the population to ever, ever have to think about.

Now i've had my turn, show me how this tallies up against them staying alive?

I'll show you how I see the current way of doing things:

The victims, and family live in fear.

Family/victim have no retribution.

We spend millions of dollars, housing, cleaning, feeding and guarding them.

There is always a possibility of escape, or getting parole- a constant fear the families and victims have to endure in the present.

Country is constantly reminded of the pricks existence, during parole, when released, rehabilitation (joke).

As you very well see I am ALL ABOUT THE VICTIM, one of not so many, no bleeding heart here for crimminals.......you do the crime, you know the rules, you know what's going to happen. In my eyes if you take away someone elses rights you immediately lose yours, I fail to see any short-comings there sorry.

mashman

27th January 2009, 09:24

that strikes me as quite unethical, and grounds for being disbarred.

thanks for the reassurance, pah, who would do such a thing just to protect their client to the best for their ability... but wouldn't that make the hippocratic oath hypocritical!!!

samgab

27th January 2009, 09:37

thanks for the reassurance, pah, who would do such a thing just to protect their client to the best for their ability... but wouldn't that make the hippocratic oath hypocritical!!!

Of course, the Hippocratic Oath is taken by medical doctors, not by lawyers... ;)
But perhaps there should be a Hippocratic Oath for lawyers.

mashman

27th January 2009, 09:46

Of course, the Hippocratic Oath is taken by medical doctors, not by lawyers... ;)
But perhaps there should be a Hippocratic Oath for lawyers.

There is!!! and for scientists and Police and ..... they just call it a different thing, but they're all derived from Hippocrates, or so the net once told me...

Drunken Monkey

27th January 2009, 14:55

Fair and effective legal tool you ask?hmmm, ok, i'll show how it's fair....

.... one of not so many, no bleeding heart here for crimminals.......you do the crime, you know the rules, you know what's going to happen. In my eyes if you take away someone elses rights you immediately lose yours, I fail to see any short-comings there sorry.

Seems reasonable to me.

Don't anyone mistake me for a 'bleeding heart criminal lover' though, just look at my contribution to the firearm thread, I'm all NRA at heart. So just because I'm asking tough questions, it doesn't mean I think people should not be punished for such disgraceful behaviour.

I just think state sanctioned execution shouldn't be taken lightly, I just want to see flippant remarks of 'line everyone up and shoot them' justified. I also certainly don't want to see the hangman's noose for a crime someone else commited, so unless someone can categorically protect me from that, I don't want to see capitol punishment dished out here.

Drunken Monkey

27th January 2009, 15:03

I just can't be arsed (also I should be working) but I am very confident in my view.

You questioned some of my semantic choices above: I ask you to do the same:

what is "Fair and effective"?

What is a "civilised state"?

Those are good questions. I can only give you a personal, subjective answer to them. I'll try and keep it short seeing as I'm on customer time too ;), although it frustrates me when people 'can't be arsed' to read threads or explain themselves when I make the effort to do so. It gives their opinions significantly less value imho.

Fair; to not punish the innocent mistakenly. To not overreact to minor crimes for people who can learn the lesson, take their beef and get on with life without committing again.

Effective; purely in the sense of effective crime prevention and/or law enforcement. Does the threat of punishment work as a preventative measure, or does it not?

Civilised state; any state in which barbaric acts are not performed at all, or if performed are done so udner the cold, but just, arm of the state's law as supported by the vast majority of it's citizens. Ergo Texas would be considered civilised, at least by Texan standards.

Drunken Monkey

27th January 2009, 15:06

There is!!! and for scientists...

As a former scientist, I can't say I ever heard of or experienced such a thing. Betetr get that source checked.

firefighter

27th January 2009, 15:06

I also certainly don't want to see the hangman's noose for a crime someone else commited, so unless someone can categorically protect me from that, I don't want to see capitol punishment dished out here.

I totally understand your concern here, and due to discussions I have had at previous times I have what I feel to be a viable solution......

To go onto death row- you have to be absolutely, without a doubt guilty. Not just decided by a Jury on pieced together evidence, but by eye-witnesses, video, personal admittance, and absolutely without any chance of a doubt where it can swing either way that you are guilty......So in it's own way it's pretty much flawless (nothings flawless I know that but it's pretty good right?)

This pile would also include repeat rapists (in case they did'nt really do it, if they come back well it's pretty obvious theywere guilty the first time), paedophiles, anyone of any age who randomly assaults other people who cannot defend themselves (think the 15 year old girl and the blind disabled man) the boy that assaulted the female cop, the man running from police who killed the cop in wellington laying road spikes not long ago, the one invovled in the recent incident on the motorway....the list goes on......but you catch my drift.

Rightly used for those who are undoubtedly guilty, and who really, in all honesty, won't be rehabilitated (which is 90% of them)

mashman

27th January 2009, 16:36

As a former scientist, I can't say I ever heard of or experienced such a thing. Betetr get that source checked.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath

Brian d marge

27th January 2009, 16:56

Cheers for the linky...

There's something to be said for there being a Status Quo? Society has moved on somewhat from the 16th Century and unfortunately society has softened along the way, adding isms and ologies to explain, and excuse, why people commit their crimes... Take a look at the graph at the foot of this page http://www.capitalpunishmentuk.org/abolish.html, (You sent this link... death penalty for murder being abolished in 1965) and then come back and tell me that it wasn't a deterrent...

I'm ok with giving jail time in cases that can't be proven without a doubt, but i'm talking about places that mimic the prisons of third world countries, not the hotels that we provide today...

The thing that gets me is that politicians are making these decisions for us and they aren't exactly from the same planet as most of us (the smackin bill showing how out of touch they are). It would be nice for the citizens of the country to be consulted on the issue of capital punishment. Of the people I have spoken to over the last week or so, since this thread popped up, i'd say (granted it's a kneejerk reaction) that a good 75 - 85 percent have agreed that they would back the reintroduction of capital punishment...

Perhaps Close Up or some other similar program could get the ball rolling, canvass the general public with carefully thought out questions, along with alternatives such as removing arms and the likes... get an awareness that there are alternatives to just sitting back and taking what's desalt out... Why in this climate are these questions not being asked? What are the politicians so scared of? They're currently trying to implement tougher measures and punishments that fit the crime, why not the Death Penalty... aAAAAAAaaaaaaAAzaaaaaaaa :bash:

Frederick Wensley , ( brit cop back in the day said in his autobiography that ; vindictive punishments as a rule are not effective punishments, Not quite so well apprieciated is the fact , that the only way to stamp out crime , is to impress on the criminal that you will be caught and punished ..

I think what he was saying here ( in 1931) is that a criminal makes a decition about the risks ...( or in a p addled brain ....no risk analysis )

I fully agree about the Paramramu Hilton, Also I would like to add as I have said many times , you me and the rest here are also guilty , as we let this low wage economy thrive with the results being a whole group of Feral idiots spoiling NZ ,,' see dutch embassys web site ) being now underskilled , under educated and dropped out ,,,, and one presumes they dont give a #$%&'

I will return later have to pick kid up from kindergarten ,,,hence v rushed mail ...

Back soon

Stephen

Lias

27th January 2009, 18:11

The death penalty is an emotive issue, I've argued for it before, and it's one of things you either support or you dont. Discussing it is seriously "banging your head against a brick wall" material.

And as for hard labour in prisons that make siberian gulags look like the hilton? I'm all for it.

Drunken Monkey

27th January 2009, 19:25

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath

"It has been suggested that a similar oath should be undertaken by scientists"

It says "should", not "shall". Sounds like a silly idea to me.

The death penalty is an emotive issue, I've argued for it before, and it's one of things you either support or you dont. Discussing it is seriously "banging your head against a brick wall" material.

I've changed from "considerably pro" to "generally against with some exceptions", so ya never know someone may indeed rethink their stance because of this discussion.