Wot's the Ducati difference?

[BMWST?]

st2,st3,st4...i notice the engines are slightly different capacaties...anything else?(as well as engine diffs please)There seem to be a hell of a lot of em for sale.

[999RDale]

ones a 2 valve,a 3 valve ,both aircooled and a 4 valve desmoquattro watercooled

[far queue]

ST4 = 916 engine
ST4s = 996 engine and lots of other goodies

[helenoftroy]

ST4 = 916 engine
ST4s = 996 engine and lots of other goodies
Skite!!:girlfight:
Awesome awesome bikes,love mine more each time I ride
:2thumbsup

[mikeey01]

Not quite the answer one would expect given your question, I just couldn't resist :)

So wot's the Ducati difference?
Well, aside from it's italian background, it's racing heritage, and it's looks....it's because it's exclusive. I'll tell you how.

People who choose to ride Italian choose them for PASSION.
These are the most uneconomical, overly engineered, at times horrible electronics, and worst "bang for the buck" in motorcycles.

You ride it because you have a passion for riding it. You don't care about "I reached 280 yesterday..." or "my bike is the most comfy out of everybodies..." or "I get more HP for the dollar...".

You ride it because of it's history, it's uniqueness, and it's soul.

Jap bikes don't have a soul or character. It's the little things, the details, and the timeless design.

The 851/888/916/996/998 is reveled as a timeless design. You can still ride a 90 Ducati 851 into a group of motorcycles, and everybody will look in awe, if not in awe, for the simple fact you don't see them all over the place. Ride up to the group with a 90 Yamaha, Suzuki, or Kwak and nobody will pay any attention to you cause it's "dated". There is are exceptions, granted... such as the classics, Katana 1100 and so on.

Ducati is not for everyone (I'm not reffering to the price) but to the feeling a rider gets out of it. The torque curve is flatter, It handles nicely but it feels different. the engine sound is unique. :)
After riding a ducati you still dont get it or dont like it, then a ducati is not for you.

So Wot's the Ducati difference?
Take one for a ride and find out!


:love: Ducati's

[mashman]

and worst "bang for the buck" in motorcycles.


depends on which cousin you prefer sleeping with... For the same price as any litre mashine you can get the Aprilia RSVR Factory, fully kitted out with carbon goodies and ohlins stockins and sussies... good bang for buck...



You ride it because you have a passion for riding it. You don't care about "I reached 280 yesterday..." or "my bike is the most comfy out of everybodies..." or "I get more HP for the dollar...".

You ride it because of it's history, it's uniqueness, and it's soul.

Jap bikes don't have a soul or character. It's the little things, the details, and the timeless design.

Take one for a ride and find out! (Any Italian)



Hallelullah Mikey... pushing the starter is a perfect wakeup call

[JMemonic]

Ok it valves per cylinder, now the kicker is the years

ST4 = 4 valves and came first
ST2 = 2 valves and came second
ST3 = 3 valves and was last

Then the ST4s well thats a 4 valve engine but not the same capacity as the ST4 it also included Ohlins suspension and a couple other goodies, strange things like ABS, the last of the range was the ST3s all the Ohlins suspension and ABS.

The ST4 had Ohlins as standard in the earlier models then they started to build them to a price so the suspensions went down a bit, still the ST3 sachs feels nice to me, it just needs a better spring in the rear as I have indulged in too much curdled dairy products.

[BMWST?]

Not quite the answer one would expect given your question, I just couldn't resist :)



So Wot's the Ducati difference?
Take one for a ride and find out!



had one(900 s2) many moons ago,after a string of UJM.you are right,they are different.Now looking for a bike again,and there seems to be a lot for sale,wondered what the diff between the duc's was

[BMWST?]

great info guys,i am partially enlightened

[mikeey01]

great info guys,i am partially enlightened

Sorry couldn't resist my previous post :)

Don't own and never ridden any ST's before.... perhaps somone who owns one might one day want to swap for a ride of my beast?

I guess point your browser to..... may help

http://www.perryr.com/DucatiSTFAQ.html



Last one I promise :)

I just love this one...
Stolen from www.ducatispares.co.nz


Italian bikes are about emotion.

If you want the fastest, sharpest, trickest bike on the planet, buy Japanese and follow the crowd.

But if you want a bike to stir you deep inside every time you open the garage door,
a bike you will spend hours cleaning just for the sake of it,
a bike that will make you shudder every time you hit the starter button and grin like an idiot behind a dark visor on the open road, there is none better.

[McJim]

I took an ST4 for a spin - compared to my wee bike its more powerful engine felt effortless - I was suddenly doing much higher speeds than I thought. Handles well too for a fairly big beastie - of course my wee six hundie is a lightweight short wheelbase hooligan so the wee duc is a bit nippier in the tight stuff.

If anything though it all felt a bit too clinical...but Winston001 will be changing his pipes soon so that should change eh?:devil2:

[TLDV8]

Not quite the answer one would expect given your question, I just couldn't resist :)

So wot's the Ducati difference?
Well, aside from it's italian background, it's racing heritage, and it's looks....it's because it's exclusive. I'll tell you how.

People who choose to ride Italian choose them for PASSION.
These are the most uneconomical, overly engineered, at times horrible electronics, and worst "bang for the buck" in motorcycles.

You ride it because you have a passion for riding it. You don't care about "I reached 280 yesterday..." or "my bike is the most comfy out of everybodies..." or "I get more HP for the dollar...".

You ride it because of it's history, it's uniqueness, and it's soul.

Jap bikes don't have a soul or character. It's the little things, the details, and the timeless design.

The 851/888/916/996/998 is reveled as a timeless design. You can still ride a 90 Ducati 851 into a group of motorcycles, and everybody will look in awe, if not in awe, for the simple fact you don't see them all over the place. Ride up to the group with a 90 Yamaha, Suzuki, or Kwak and nobody will pay any attention to you cause it's "dated". There is are exceptions, granted... such as the classics, Katana 1100 and so on.

Ducati is not for everyone (I'm not reffering to the price) but to the feeling a rider gets out of it. The torque curve is flatter, It handles nicely but it feels different. the engine sound is unique. :)
After riding a ducati you still dont get it or dont like it, then a ducati is not for you.

So Wot's the Ducati difference?
Take one for a ride and find out!


:love: Ducati's

How long have you owned a Ducati ?

[mikeey01]

How long have you owned a Ducati ?

umm which one? I've had three over ten plus years, why?

[sondela]

Skite!!:girlfight:
Awesome awesome bikes,love mine more each time I ride
:2thumbsup
Ditto and snap!! :clap:

[Richard Mc F]

BEVEL DRIVE DESMO..........if I need to explain you will never understand

[Richard Mc F]

It is a disease..............it begins:weep:

[McJim]

Ducatis just ooze character. I have a drip pan underneath mine to catch all the character as it oozes out :rofl:

But I loves her dearly. She ain't fast but she is nimble and she sings such sweet melodies.

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[mikeey01]

Ducatis just ooze character. I have a drip pan underneath mine to catch all the character as it oozes out :rofl:
</embed></object>

I like it! :niceone:

[Macontour]

Too true. I was off bikes 8 years and then 3 months ago got my 1997 900 SL. It scared the poop out of me at first but I just love the way it surges forward when I open the throttle and the carbon Termignonis and exposed clutch sound great.......although people often ask what is wrong with it because of the clutch noise, and it does sound and feel a bit agricultural lugging around town or in heavy traffic.

Yep, I could have bought an 800 Monster that was only 4 years old, was more civilised because of the Fuel Injection AND $2000 cheaper but as I tell a lot of people I could buy a 2007 Mustang or a 1967 Mustang. There are plenty of people who would buy the '67 even though it less powerful, doesn't handle as well and so on. I guess I would buy the '67.

I believed the SuperLight looked good but all sorts of people tell me that too.

[jrandom]

it's racing heritage

Name me a motorcycle brand that doesn't have a racing heritage.


it's looks...

999?

Multistrada?


People who choose to ride Italian choose them based on marketing and pop culture.

Well, true.


These are the most uneconomical, overly engineered, at times horrible electronics, and worst "bang for the buck" in motorcycles.

Hitting the right pop culture note is worth it, though.


Jap bikes don't have a soul or character.

You've never ridden a VFR400, an RGV250 or a GSX-R1000 K2, have you?


You can still ride a 90 Ducati 851 into a group of motorcycles, and everybody will look in awe, if not in awe, for the simple fact that it's actually running.

How rude of them!


After riding a ducati you still dont get it or dont like it, then a ducati is not for you.

You're quite right, and I do love them.

I don't quite understand why the typical fanboi evaluation of certain brands of motorcycles has to be so comparative, though.

[mikeey01]

Name me a motorcycle brand that doesn't have a racing heritage.

Well true, ya got me there.



999?
Multistrada?
.

missed em out




You've never ridden a VFR400, an RGV250 or a GSX-R1000 K2, have you?
.
No I've never ridden a VFR400, ya got me there too.
However I Use to own a GSX, GSXR, GSXRR and a katana 11 in the middle of all that.
A mate bought an RGV new once, had to run it in for racing so he use to sling me the keys so I could put some k's on it for him. I've done at least a 1000k on one though.
ya got me on the VFR400 though, nope never ridden one! Did I miss much?
I did dispatch one in the coromandel gorge once when I was chaseing down a bloke on an NSR, yeah I was on me duke at the time.

[scracha]

ya got me on the VFR400 thought, nope never ridden one! Did I miss much?


Nah, but the early VFR 750's had seriously fuggin wonderful engines. Would I be a blasphemer if I said I'd drop the vfr750 motor into the Ducati frame in a heartbeat?

[vifferman]

If you buy a Ducati, you'll become a Bastid, like all these other Ducatisti posting on here. After a brief time of ownership, you'll become a SMUG Bastid.

You're all bastidges, the whole lot of you! :crybaby:


I've owned a Ducati keyring since 1994. :niceone:


As for "jap bikes have no soul" - my bike is one of the exceptions that proves that rule. It has HEAPS - but without the 'character' (leaks, unreliaibility, crankiness, etc.)

One day I might have a Ducati (if my wife stops spending all our money on travel...) But by then I'll probably be too old to ride....

[batboy]

Nah, but the early VFR 750's had seriously fuggin wonderful engines. Would I be a blasphemer if I said I'd drop the vfr750 motor into the Ducati frame in a heartbeat?

Had an 86 vfr750f, now ride a duc M900, and im sorry but both bikes are in a leauge of their own, really cant compare them, v4 vs v2, italian vs jap etc
Ducati is what it is, love em or hate em...no middle ground

[vifferman]

Nah, but the early VFR 750's had seriously fuggin wonderful engines. Would I be a blasphemer if I said I'd drop the vfr750 motor into the Ducati frame in a heartbeat?
Yes.
Much as I love v-fours, I still reckon a 90-degree v-twin is more betterer.

[Taz]

Ducatis just ooze character. I have a drip pan underneath mine to catch all the character as it oozes out :rofl:

But I loves her dearly. She ain't fast but she is nimble and she sings such sweet melodies.

Nice but the clutch isn't loud enuff :)

[pritch]

I look at Ducatis sometimes and think they look great, and there could be a time when I would buy one. The looks of the 749/999 are growing on me.

I'd need a proper motorbike as well though :whistle:

[vifferman]

Nice but the clutch isn't loud enuff :)
A handful of old nuts'n'bolts will probably fix that.

[JMemonic]

And back to the original question the ST range of course are sports tourers, as McJim points out it is very easy to find yourself a warp speeds.

They are not a race bike unlike some of the other models, but still very capable, my 3 will out perform my capability and it does not leak character, sure there is a service schedule to follow but to be honest its not that big a deal, no different to some other bikes out there of Asian origin.

[Voltaire]

BEVEL DRIVE DESMO..........if I need to explain you will never understand

I'm with him....well just round the corner actually.
The rubber band ones are nice too.....me like the 900ssie lots!!!
I was out last night and two young lads in a old Starlet at the lights were giving me the thumbs up...and the ss is 10 years old.( probably would have been less impressed if I took of the helmet and they saw "Dad'.....).

check out the pics I put up on in the Classic Forum.
Shows a bit of the history mentioned in earlier posts.
That scooter would suit you sir...:blink:

[longwayfromhome]

When the ST4S first came out I went and tried one out at Fast by Ferracci in Philly. I had ridden an ST4 before and I was rather partial to Ducati's in a hypothetical way. The ST4S was modded from new, it had a chip and a pretty flash pipe on it. 127hp they said. Well, as I was putting my ride on the centerstand, he wheeled out the bike with a particularly smug look...then started it and stood there revving the engine.

Now, I was about 48 yo, rode a touring BMW that I loved for its stealth nature (and still do), absolutely hated loud bikes...but for Christ's sake, that Ducati made a monumentally intoxicating sound with the side benefit that it was pretty good to ride above about 50mph. I felt I would have bought it on the spot if I'd had the 14k or whatever it cost. It completely overcome all sane and reasonable objections to buying a bike for such a nebulous, stupid, crass and unsustainable reason...."you spent how much because it sounded good?"

I snigger today when someone says their straight 4 sounds good...yeah good for a farting sound. Oh, that Duc and the throttle which was the mechanical equivalent of Jimi Hendrix's wa-wa pedal.

[Dooly]

They sound great with an open clutch cover too.:yes:
People ask me if my bike's fucked.
Naa, not the bike, just me.:wacko:

[imdying]

Yes.
Much as I love v-fours, I still reckon a 90-degree v-twin is more betterer.

Ironic that the most awesome of all road goings Dukes is a V4 then in'it :lol:

[Oscar]

Time for some reality..

[helenoftroy]

Not quite the answer one would expect given your question, I just couldn't resist :)

So wot's the Ducati difference?
Well, aside from it's italian background, it's racing heritage, and it's looks....it's because it's exclusive. I'll tell you how.

People who choose to ride Italian choose them for PASSION.
These are the most uneconomical, overly engineered, at times horrible electronics, and worst "bang for the buck" in motorcycles.

You ride it because you have a passion for riding it. You don't care about "I reached 280 yesterday..." or "my bike is the most comfy out of everybodies..." or "I get more HP for the dollar...".

You ride it because of it's history, it's uniqueness, and it's soul.

Jap bikes don't have a soul or character. It's the little things, the details, and the timeless design.

The 851/888/916/996/998 is reveled as a timeless design. You can still ride a 90 Ducati 851 into a group of motorcycles, and everybody will look in awe, if not in awe, for the simple fact you don't see them all over the place. Ride up to the group with a 90 Yamaha, Suzuki, or Kwak and nobody will pay any attention to you cause it's "dated". There is are exceptions, granted... such as the classics, Katana 1100 and so on.

Ducati is not for everyone (I'm not reffering to the price) but to the feeling a rider gets out of it. The torque curve is flatter, It handles nicely but it feels different. the engine sound is unique. :)
After riding a ducati you still dont get it or dont like it, then a ducati is not for you.

So Wot's the Ducati difference?
Take one for a ride and find out!


:love: Ducati's
Absolutely!!:2thumbsup


Don't own and never ridden any ST's before.... perhaps somone who owns one might one day want to swap for a ride of my beast?

Pick me!!pick me!!
No seriously... take the ST4 for a blat,I'll just stand guard over your bike & drool:drool:

[johan]

Time for some reality..

I've been giving my desmodromic tube skeleton the full throttle for about a year now at the tracks.

I have become a great mechanic.

I hate it, I love it, in a meth kind of way.

That's my reality.

[helenoftroy]

Now, I was about 48 yo, rode a touring BMW that I loved for its stealth nature (and still do), absolutely hated loud bikes...but for Christ's sake, that Ducati made a monumentally intoxicating sound with the side benefit that it was pretty good to ride above about 50mph. I felt I would have bought it on the spot if I'd had the 14k or whatever it cost. It completely overcome all sane and reasonable objections to buying a bike for such a nebulous, stupid, crass and unsustainable reason...."you spent how much because it sounded good?"

:killingmeditto!!

I was 50,female,& had never owned a road bike before(trail bikes when young,17yrs bikeless,then 2 BMWs,a R80GSP/D,& a R1OOGS)

By 3rd gear I was a walkover!!:love::love::love:

[davejenknz]

ones a 2 valve,a 3 valve ,both aircooled and a 4 valve desmoquattro watercooled

On the ST they're all watercooled.

The two value engine also comes as an aircooled but not in the ST range.

[BMWST?]

ahh yes the sound...my 900 s2 was one of the last to be delivered with contis and 40 mm carbs and was the last of the big twins....a lot of S2,s after that had 32 mm carbs and the big quiet ugly mufflers....when you started it it only just seemed to have enough jiuce to crank the engine three times and it always rumbled into life at the last second..the suspension was rock hard and didnt move until you were doing 140 km hr....it was only as fast in a straight line as a gsx r 400,but no matter how fast you went round a corner the frame always gave absolutely rock solid feedback/ feeling

[johan]

The Ducatis I've owned, I'm on my fourth now, they have all just been able to crank over to start, struggling to idle at cold, rough idle when warm, popping and spitting because of poor air/fuel mix and very odd suspension setup from the factory.

Of course, when you have managed to tune them properly, that's when that special awesomeness begins! Very addictive!

Has anyone else seen this or have I been picking lemons all along?

[BMWST?]

I was actually at the shop when they uncrated mine and i helped mike dobson put it together...:)
When it was all done we threw the partially charged battery in and i was off....the battery was always borderline...mine always idled and ran well even when cold on the choke...

[hayd3n]

they are hott!!!!!!!

[Eddieb]

The 851/888/916/996/998 is reveled as a timeless design. You can still ride a 90 Ducati 851 into a group of motorcycles, and everybody will look in awe, if not in awe, for the simple fact you don't see them all over the place.

Gotta agree to that. The 888 gets loads of looks whenever I take it out. The only times I've been somewhere and seen another triple 8 was Hamilton Toy Run about 2 years ago and Cold Kiwi about 4 years ago.

[mikeey01]

for Christ's sake, that Ducati made a monumentally intoxicating sound with the side benefit that it was pretty good to ride above about 50mph.

I like it! :niceone:

[AllanB]

Thumbs up chaps for some pretty honest descriptions of the brand and its ownership here.

I had to check I was still on KB :yes:


One thing I've always found interesting is the description of 'character' relating to basically anything other than a Jap bike - the interesting thing is that is the little ideosyncricies that add the character to the Italian, American and to a lesser extent modern Triumph would simply not be tolerated on a Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha etc.

Is that wrong? Stuffed if I know, it's just interesting.

Can you build in character???? Could Honda buy a computer script for this?

Personally I think HD has lost some of its character.

[laRIKin]

This will help explain of the ST range.


Ducati had launched its first sports touring machine, the ST2, in 1996, and although it was a success in many markets, it was also criticized for its lack of top-end power. So for 1998, Ducati expanded its sports touring range with a new ST4, while keeping the ST2 in production as a cheaper option.



The ST4 was basically an ST2 chassis and bodywork with a 916cc eight-valve desmodromic engine fitted. That engine installation was straightforward, although the front cylinder head was modified from the standard 916 Biposto design in order to fit the motor into the ST2 frame. The exhaust camshaft was moved down in the head by 10mm (0.3in), allowing the larger engine to fit.

The same steel-tube trellis frame, Showa upside-down front forks and Showa rear shock as the ST2 give the ST4 firm handling, although the more powerful engine places heavier stresses upon it.

For 2000, the ST4 was modified with several uprated parts. A wider rear wheel took a larger 180-section tyre, and the brakes and dash were uprated over the ST2 parts. A new sidestand design replaced the previous flip-up design and there were some detail engine changes, mostly to improve reliability.


The ST3 sports a powerful, 3-valve, Desmo L-twin engine. Matched with its Superbike-derived trellis frame, adjustable suspension, comfortable two-up riding position and optional colour-matched luggage, the ST3 is at ease on both twisty mountain roads and cross-country motorways.

Improved reliability and low emissions make the ST3 a confident choice to tackle wild mountain passes and endless stretches of highway. Producing 107 hp at 8750 rpm, the ST3 has more than enough power for the long haul and inspires confidence, even when two-up and under the full weight of luggage.


Introduced in 2001, this sporting version of the ST4 has uprated suspension, chassis and engine components, and offers a much more dynamic package. The 916 engine of the ST4 is replaced with a larger-capacity 996 engine, a variant of the 996 superbike engine. Different valve timing and lift and revised fuel-injection give the ST4S engine a broad spread of power - peak torque of 72ft lb occurs at 7000rpm, and there is 60ft lb available at just 4000rpm. This strong bottom-end performance allows fast, easy progress, even with a pillion and loaded hard luggage. The enhanced chassis features uprated suspension and lighter wheels to improve dynamic performance. Stickier tyres supply extra grip to match the engine's power.

The ST4S bristles with our best race-derived components combined with all-day riding comfort. The awesome Superbike 996 cc Desmoquattro engine ensures maximum power.

Of course, a great engine can only reach its potential when matched with an equally advanced chassis and suspension.

[Dean]

ledgend tells of a ledgend so ledgendary it was named ducati from its awsomeness

[Dean]

ledgend tells of a ledgend so ledgendary it was named ducati from its awsomeness

fuck that was lame wooops ducatis rule and i dont even own one

[imdying]

they are hott!!!!!!!Any idea what happened there? Blocked catalytic converter burst into flames?

[I'm motarded]

Not quite the answer one would expect given your question, I just couldn't resist :)

So wot's the Ducati difference?
Well, aside from it's italian background, it's racing heritage, and it's looks....it's because it's exclusive. I'll tell you how.

People who choose to ride Italian choose them for PASSION.
These are the most uneconomical, overly engineered, at times horrible electronics, and worst "bang for the buck" in motorcycles.

You ride it because you have a passion for riding it. You don't care about "I reached 280 yesterday..." or "my bike is the most comfy out of everybodies..." or "I get more HP for the dollar...".

You ride it because of it's history, it's uniqueness, and it's soul.

Jap bikes don't have a soul or character. It's the little things, the details, and the timeless design.

The 851/888/748/916/996/998 is reveled as a timeless design. You can still ride a 90 Ducati 851 into a group of motorcycles, and everybody will look in awe, if not in awe, for the simple fact you don't see them all over the place. Ride up to the group with a 90 Yamaha, Suzuki, or Kwak and nobody will pay any attention to you cause it's "dated". There is are exceptions, granted... such as the classics, Katana 1100 and so on.

Ducati is not for everyone (I'm not reffering to the price) but to the feeling a rider gets out of it. The torque curve is flatter, It handles nicely but it feels different. the engine sound is unique. :)
After riding a ducati you still dont get it or dont like it, then a ducati is not for you.

So Wot's the Ducati difference?
Take one for a ride and find out!


:love: Ducati's

I could'nt agree with you more.... I love my 748 and ducati in general....

[Taz]

I like mine a lot but then sometimes I don't like mine at all...... That's the ducati difference, They evoke strong passionate emotions.... Bloody Italians!!

[hayd3n]

its italian and they started making mopeds
yamaha started with keyboards how harmonic is that??

[McJim]

its italian and they started making mopeds
yamaha started with keyboards how harmonic is that??

They actually started out making electrics and radios until the Brits bombed the shit outta their factory in WWII.

There's irony for you - they started off as an electrics manufacturer and when they made their bikes they made 'em with crap electrics :rofl:

I rewired mine so it works now....

[bsasuper]

The ducati experience is being stranded in the middle of nowhere on a 916, twice,once when the charging circuit packed in, and once when the valves decided to see what was under the pistons when the cam belt snapped.But they are nice bikes.

[Winston001]

Ok - this c&p is just to confirm other posts, to answer the differences:

"ST2 = 944 cc, 2 valves/cylinder.

ST4 = 916 cc, 4 valves/cylinder (916 Superbike engine redone for sport touring)

ST4s = 996 cc, 4 valves/cylinder (996 Superbike engine redone for sport touring), upgraded suspension from the ST2 and ST4. Also available with ABS beginning with 2003.

ST3 = 992 cc, 3 valves/cylinder. New engine developed specifically for the ST3.

ST3sABS = same as ST3 w/the suspension of the ST4s and ABS.

All the ST models are liquid cooled.

The upper fairing, dash, handle bars, and seat of the ST2 were carried over to the ST4 and ST4s through 2003.

The ST3 was introduced in 2004. It came with a new style upper fairing, electronic dash, adjustible handlebars, and (in the opinion of many) an upgraded seat. This was carried over to the ST4s in 2004.

The ST2, ST4, and ST4s are no longer in production, leaving the ST3 and ST3sABS as Ducati's sole sport tourers for 2007. ST3 is no longer produced as of 2009."

Much more info here http://www.ducati.ms/forums/showthread.php?t=15290

[Winston001]

Now - statistics are all very well but they don't really answer the original question - what's the difference?

So - the ST2 is considered to be underpowered with its 944 engine - but owners are also happy people and don't rush to change bikes. Two valves is easier to service and less performance orientated. It's a fine sport tourer in real-world use.

The ST4 with its 916 4 valve motor is a superbike, as is the ST4s with the 996 engine. Both bikes are more complex to service and perform accordingly.

The ST3 is the most recent development and is a refinement on the ST4. Less valves but same performance, better fairing, just slightly better overall.

Despite the engine displacement difference between the ST4, ST4s, and ST3, they all run through a quarter mile at around 11.1 seconds passing through 197kph. 0 to 100kph is similar also although I have a sense the ST4s is quicker.

The ST4s is the sexy one with added bits such as Ohlins rear shock. Plus its a bit rarer and the top-end model.

There are a lot of Ducatis (and other exotic bikes) being brought in from Japan which is great if, like me you get the Ducati itch. Prices have dropped. Rather tough on past NZ buyers.

Some of these imports have barely been used - I looked at one in Invercargill with 526km on it. They are purchased by Japanese owners who go for a few spins with mates to show off their Italian stallions, then park them in their living rooms. Sort of high-end sculpture chick magnet. :innocent:

So what was once unaffordable is now within reach for us.

As an earlier poster said, the ST series are sports-tourers (more sports than touring) but the ergonomics are not designed for the racetrack or tight stuff. Which doesn't mean the bikes can't do that, you just have to change the ride height and lower the bars. In which case you may as well buy a sports Duke.

My yellow ST4 gives me a frisson of thrill every time I look at it. Sex on a stick. :love:

[hayd3n]

Any idea what happened there? Blocked catalytic converter burst into flames?

i cant remember it is a repost tho

[tri boy]

Had the dis pleasure to look after a mates MHR for a couple of months. Overated pieces of shite.
Biggest pile of parts bin special crap I have lived with.
I wouldn't compare it with the modern gear, or even a lovely old GT750, just pointing out that all brands have rotten apples.

[laRIKin]

So - the ST2 is considered to be underpowered with its 944 engine - but owners are also happy people and don't rush to change bikes. Two valves is easier to service and less performance orientated. It's a fine sport tourer in real-world use.

The lack of power is mainly noticed at the top end of the rev range.
I have had the luck to ride some well sorted ST2's that were more fun to ride than some ST4 bikes.
And then again I did really like the ST4S I rode.

And as you said, people with a ST2 are happy campers.
And the one I rode the other day I would buy as it went real well.

[Winston001]

I took an ST4 for a spin - compared to my wee bike its more powerful engine felt effortless - I was suddenly doing much higher speeds than I thought. Handles well too for a fairly big beastie - of course my wee six hundie is a lightweight short wheelbase hooligan so the wee duc is a bit nippier in the tight stuff.

If anything though it all felt a bit too clinical...but Winston001 will be changing his pipes soon so that should change eh?:devil2:

Here is another point of difference. The air cooled Ducatis feel more raw, more "original", more like a motorcycle should feel in the traditional sense. I'd guess that is one of the keys to Harley Davidson's success - retaining the feel of a throbbing vibrating machine, but with modern electrics and reliability.

The water-cooled high performance Ducati motors are smoother and free revving with a nice bowel-clenching zone when they come on song. That's 6000 - 9000 revs on my ST4. Unfortunately it also translates to 140k minimum.......

The ST series are perhaps closer to the clinical responsiveness of the Japanese bikes but are still distinctive enough that you'll always know you are on a V-twin Ducati. :love: Nothing quite like it although I'd image the Aprilias and the SuperDuke must be similar.

[Forest]

Some of these imports have barely been used - I looked at one in Invercargill with 526km on it. They are purchased by Japanese owners who go for a few spins with mates to show off their Italian stallions, then park them in their living rooms. Sort of high-end sculpture chick magnet. :innocent:


As always, caveat emptor.

I've seen a couple of used import Ducatis from Japan that had speedo clusters which had been replaced "under warranty" :whistle:

[mikeey01]

Excellent stuff so far and great comments too, sorry if I hi jacked the thread early on with some of my pro Ducati comments.

JMenonic, Lemans, Winston001 nice comments and write up on the ST too guys :2thumbsup

[JMemonic]

As always, caveat emptor.

I've seen a couple of used import Ducatis from Japan that had speedo clusters which had been replaced "under warranty" :whistle:

On the ST series its not the speedo cluster but the computer that provides the data from what I can tell, mine is ex Japan 7500Km on the clock and I think it was genuine, big problem with them is they have sat and not been used, which they need to be, the belts are screwed up from sitting in one position all the time.

[piston broke]

sorta off topic,but,

the ducati difference- :sherlock:

the sight :sunny:

the sound :love:

the handling :ride::ride:

[Rob Taylor]

Nah, but the early VFR 750's had seriously fuggin wonderful engines. Would I be a blasphemer if I said I'd drop the vfr750 motor into the Ducati frame in a heartbeat?

Bloody worse than a blasphemer,Lucky they dont burn people at the stake anymore:girlfight:Sell your Ducati.:wacko:You dont deserve it:calm:

[Rob Taylor]

Had an 86 vfr750f, now ride a duc M900, and im sorry but both bikes are in a leauge of their own, really cant compare them, v4 vs v2, italian vs jap etc
Ducati is what it is, love em or hate em...no middle ground

Well bloody said bro:clap:

[scracha]

Bloody worse than a blasphemer,Lucky they dont burn people at the stake anymore:girlfight:Sell your Ducati.:wacko:You dont deserve it:calm:

I worked for it like a nigger bro so I deserve it. Aint complaining about the looks, handling or brakes but the engine is pretty "average" as far as I'm concerned. Gawd knows how "average" the standard 748's must be.

[pritch]

Ducati admit they can't compete with the Japanese on performance, price, or with some, on quality. Doesn't leave a lot.

When looking at the performance figures for another thread recently it was apparent that the small Monster is 30 hp down on the 600 Hornet. That struck me as a massive disparity. Than I noticed that the 1100 Monster only makes similar power to the Hornet not much more than half its size.

I guess when a manufacturer is faced with such a huge discrepancy they have to invoke intangibles - eg "passion".

It was interesting to note also that you don't have to read far through Triumph's online catalogue to find the "p" word...

Notwithstanding all that I'd still like A Ducati but it probably won't happen.
A Triumph might be a possibility though.

[batboy]

Ducati admit they can't compete with the Japanese on performance, price, or with some, on quality. Doesn't leave a lot.

When looking at the performance figures for another thread recently it was apparent that the small Monster is 30 hp down on the 600 Hornet. That struck me as a massive disparity. Than I noticed that the 1100 Monster only makes similar power to the Hornet not much more than half its size.

I guess when a manufacturer is faced with such a huge discrepancy they have to invoke intangibles - eg "passion".

It was interesting to note also that you don't have to read far through Triumph's online catalogue to find the "p" word...

Notwithstanding all that I'd still like A Ducati but it probably won't happen.
A Triumph might be a possibility though.

ah yes but still new ducati's are constanly ranking higher in most new bike test in various bike pron mags, 1098=win, hypermotard=win etc.
but i do agree they market the "passion" very well and try keep the bikes "exclusive" to a point ie not mass produced.
A guy i spoke to once (he is on this forum but dont know who he is) said if he there was a race from christchurch to akaroa with money at the end he would not be on his R1, he would ride his 996, dukes still handle hands down

[laRIKin]

To me and I'm not have a dig at anyone.

It is all about the passion and the enjoyment of riding a bike.
HP and bling does not come in to it.

If I found a scooter I like and enjoyed to ride with a passion I would buy it.

I rode old Guzzi's (and still do) for years and trust me it is not about power, the brakes or handling or the bling.
It is all about passion and enjoyment.

I was going to buy an older Ducati a few years a go.
They wanted top, top dollar and it did have extras on it, so I let it go as I thought it was just to dear.

I'm still kicking my self and and get pissed off when I see this guy riding and enjoying the bike I should have bought.:doh:

[Dooly]

My 04 Duc 1000 SuperSport DS is slow compared to a Jappa equivalent 1000 and even a gixxer600 or similar. Very apparant at a trackday when they pass me on the straights.
But mine has a Ohlins rear setup factory and Brembos all round and handles like a dream on the road.
I've seen the end of the speedo on it which is 260, but who knows what that is, and with the lower gearing I've done now, its dropped a bit more top end, but accelerates hard.
Can keep up with the above mentioned bikes in real world conditions on the road no probs.
Cept for the straights again.............damn!!:no::no:

[imdying]

ah yes but still new ducati's are constanly ranking higher in most new bike test in various bike pron mags, 1098=winWin? Win!? For nearly twice the money, they better be total fuckin annihilation, not just a mere win. Sadly, they're not.

Someone mentioned they're either love or hate, no inbetween... afraid not, easy to be apathetic towards them... they're just metal and plastic like any other bike.

[johan]

[SNIP]
... said if he there was a race from christchurch to akaroa with money at the end he would not be on his R1, he would ride his 996, dukes still handle hands down

It's interesting to note that the Ducatis we see being raced on TV have very different geometry from what we buy for the street. The swingarm's length, the tripleclamp's offset, rear height etc are changed quite drastically.

From my experience, the 996 is not easy to turn in stock configuration. It's quite stable mid corner but to get there you would have to wrestle it down. But with some simple tweaks you can transform the bike to a very agile corner weapon.

Changing the rear to a 180/55 can also be an eye opener.

The single sided swingarm bikes are far from easy to setup. As you change the gearing and the chain tension, you change the rear height and the wheelbase. So you compensate with the height adjustment rod, and now you have changed the suspension linkage.

But they are still very good fun a rewarding to ride! :Punk:

[pritch]

ah yes but still new ducati's are constanly ranking higher in most new bike test in various bike pron mags, 1098=win,

Not the ones I read, the RC8 won hands down.
Oh, and the runner up was the Aprilia.
848 & 1098 followed but I can't remember the order.

[Winston001]

I worked for it like a nigger bro so I deserve it. Aint complaining about the looks, handling or brakes but the engine is pretty "average" as far as I'm concerned. Gawd knows how "average" the standard 748's must be.

Mmmm. Your bike produces 106hp and runs through a quarter mile in 11.5 seconds. Nothing wrong with that. I'm guessing you have tweaked it but just as a reminder, the 748 is a high performance motor and only really comes on song at 7000 revs. Your playground is above that. It's not a street bike.

Smaller front cog (or larger rear cog) will help performance, as well as raising the rear with the height adjustment rod. Lighter wheels would help and carbon exhausts shave even more weight.

However I think the 748R is a lovely bike straight out of the factory.

http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/ducati/ducati_748r.htm

[Winston001]

It's interesting to note that the Ducatis we see being raced on TV have very different geometry from what we buy for the street. The swingarm's length, the tripleclamp's offset, rear height etc are changed quite drastically.

From my experience, the 996 is not easy to turn in stock configuration. It's quite stable mid corner but to get there you would have to wrestle it down. But with some simple tweaks you can transform the bike to a very agile corner weapon.

Changing the rear to a 180/55 can also be an eye opener.

The single sided swingarm bikes are far from easy to setup. As you change the gearing and the chain tension, you change the rear height and the wheelbase. So you compensate with the height adjustment rod, and now you have changed the suspension linkage.

But they are still very good fun a rewarding to ride! :Punk:

Nice post. I'd say similar things about the ST4 although it doesn't have a single swingarm. Doubt that I will bother to get lighter wheels, different tyre sizes etc as recommended by others but your comments confirm what I've read on Ducati MS forum.

The thing is, all motorcycle manufacturers have to balance performance/handling against the Unknown buyer. The guy who weighs 220lb and his equally cuddly girlfriend. If the bike begs to turn and is unstable, throwing Mr Unknown off is bad for business. So bikes reach us in a "safe" configuration and are not true race replicas, even if we think they are.

So there is plenty which can be done but personally, I'm still scared silly by the 916 engine :D and the bike can remain stable.

[mikeey01]

Someone mentioned they're either love or hate, no inbetween... afraid not, easy to be apathetic towards them... they're just metal and plastic like any other bike.

Wash your mouth out :spanking: bleemin metal and plastic :slap:
O they're so much more!

People who choose to ride Italian choose them for PASSION

You ride it because of it's history, it's uniqueness, and it's soul. (Jap bikes don't have a soul or character)
It's the little things, the details, and the timeless design.

Ducati is not for everyone (not the price) but to the feeling a rider gets out of it. The torque curve is flatter, It handles nicely but it feels different. the engine sound is soooo unique. :hug:
Jap bikes have even tryed to copy the sound, fail!

After riding a ducati you still dont get it or dont like it, then a ducati is not for you.

If you want the fastest in a straight line, then Ducati is not for you (unless your wanting to spend bucket loads of money)

The feeling one gets when riding through bend after bend, flip, flop, into the next, chop of the power, brake hard, lower, lower.. down goes the knee, push hard, ease the power back on, in tune with the road, more power, start straightening up, back on full power....... flowing through as if your in sync with the gods who created that last perfect shaped arse of the pit girl you last saw. Grinning like an idiot behind the visor looking for the next corner to chop the throttle, hear that exhaust note, flowing through it and onto the next.
There is nothing else like it!

So much pleasure one gets from a Ducati's, what's the difference? I'm not a word smith and I can't put it into words...

Take one for a ride and find out!

[Oscar]

Wash your mouth out :spanking: bleemin metal and plastic :slap:
O they're so much more!

People who choose to ride Italian choose them for PASSION

You ride it because of it's history, it's uniqueness, and it's soul. (Jap bikes don't have a soul or character)
It's the little things, the details, and the timeless design.

Ducati is not for everyone (not the price) but to the feeling a rider gets out of it. The torque curve is flatter, It handles nicely but it feels different. the engine sound is soooo unique. :hug:
Jap bikes have even tryed to copy the sound, fail!

After riding a ducati you still dont get it or dont like it, then a ducati is not for you.

If you want the fastest in a straight line, then Ducati is not for you (unless your wanting to spend bucket loads of money)

The feeling one gets when riding through bend after bend, flip, flop, into the next, chop of the power, brake hard, lower, lower.. down goes the knee, push hard, ease the power back on, in tune with the road, more power, start straightening up, back on full power....... flowing through as if your in sync with the gods who created that last perfect shaped arse of the pit girl you last saw. Grinning like an idiot behind the visor looking for the next corner to chop the throttle, hear that exhaust note, flowing through it and onto the next.
There is nothing else like it!

So much pleasure one gets from a Ducati's, what's the difference? I'm not a word smith and I can't put it into words...

Take one for a ride and find out!

I'm sorry, I tried to restrain my self here...but this is the biggest load of bollox I have read in sometime.

It's a motorbike, for God's sake. Yet you've imbued it with mystic powers, while (and this is the bit that got me going) saying that "..Jap bikes don't have a soul or character".

How do you know?
Have you ridden every last Jap model? Reading this thread, it would appear that "soul and character" can be translated to "quirkiness and unreliability", so on that basis plenty of Jap bikes have "soul and character" :laugh:

Now whereas there are several Ducati's that I would own (the Multistrada and Hypermotard being two of them), some are complete piles of crap.

Pantah anyone?

Anyone mention the parallel twin they made in the eighties?

And finally, try this exercise - I've taken one of your more flowery bits of prose and substituted "Harley Davidson" for "Ducati":


Harley Davidson is not for everyone (not the price) but to the feeling a rider gets out of it. The torque curve is flatter, It handles nicely but it feels different. the engine sound is soooo unique. :hug:
Jap bikes have even tryed to copy the sound, fail!

After riding a Harley Davidson you still dont get it or dont like it, then a Harley Davidson is not for you.

If you want the fastest in a straight line, then Harley Davidson is not for you (unless your wanting to spend bucket loads of money)

It works - the wonders of marketing...:laugh:

[imdying]

You ride it because of it's history, it's uniqueness, and it's soul. (Jap bikes don't have a soul or character) You should take my RGV for a hoon, it has more 'soul or character' in its cute little motor than an old Italian shit heap. Anybody riding a marque because of its history instead of the merits of the particular model is an idiot who's been well sucked in... Salesman love those sorta people, they're called 'plums'.

It's the little things, the details, and the timeless design....uh huh, go the Paso eh? :rolleyes:


The feeling one gets when riding through bend after bend, flip, flop, into the next, chop of the power, brake hard, lower, lower.. down goes the knee, push hard, ease the power back on, in tune with the road, more power, start straightening up, back on full power....... flowing through as if your in sync with the gods who created that last perfect shaped arse of the pit girl you last saw. Grinning like an idiot behind the visor looking for the next corner to chop the throttle, hear that exhaust note, flowing through it and onto the next.
There is nothing else like it! Right.... and only a Ducati will give you that experience? Puuuhhleaseeee... you need to expand your horizons.


It's a motorbike, plastic and metal... you really want character? You really want soul? Strip your bike down and rebuild it, customize it... make it your own. Never will the day come that a factory can build that in... Passion comes from your own heart, you can't buy that in stores man, no matter what the nice Ducati salesman trys to tell ya :msn-wink:


/edit: Well that was a waste of a post, I should've read Oscar's first is seems...:laugh:

[Oscar]

You should take my RGV for a hoon, it has more 'soul or character' in its cute little motor than an old Italian shit heap. Anybody riding a marque because of its history instead of the merits of the particular model is an idiot who's been well sucked in... Salesman love those sorta people, they're called 'plums'.
...uh huh, go the Paso eh? :rolleyes:

Right.... and only a Ducati will give you that experience? Puuuhhleaseeee... you need to expand your horizons.


It's a motorbike, plastic and metal... you really want character? You really want soul? Strip your bike down and rebuild it, customize it... make it your own. Never will the day come that a factory can build that in... Passion comes from your own heart, you can't buy that in stores man, no matter what the nice Ducati salesman trys to tell ya :msn-wink:


/edit: Well that was a waste of a post, I should've read Oscar's first is seems...:laugh:

No, no - nice rant, Grasshopper.

The Curmudgeonly-ness is strong in this one...:laugh:

[imdying]

No, no - nice rant, Grasshopper.

The Curmudgeonly-ness is strong in this one...:laugh:

Heh, I just feel that the testaretta equipped bikes have so much going for them, that to have to sell them off the back of magic fairy dust is actually pretty insulting for Ducati. The brakes, wheels and suspension alone makes the price of entry worth it on many models. I appreciate that not everyone has the time to take a GSXR1000 and hot rod it.

[vifferman]

they are hott!!!!!!!
Ooh! Ouch!
Saw that at a Ruapuna round of the NZ TT back in....hmmmm... 95? (the last time they had three (3!) Brittens racing). Duct-taped muffler on a Ducati caught on fire, was really kewl watching the guy pilot it with smoke'n'flames coming out the back. Lots of frantic signals down the main straight convinced him to bail at the end of the straight. He said, "Hmmmm.... I thought my arse was getting a bit hot!"

[vifferman]

Heh, I just feel that the testaretta equipped bikes have so much going for them
The testastretta bikes are even better.

As for 'character' - how do you define that? A certain amount of unreliability? Uncompromising ergonomics? Idiosyncratic design?
While I think I know what people mean by 'character', it's very subjective. My XBR500RS Mutant had loads of it: to start it, you had to fold up the right footpeg, turn the engine over to TDC, then leap on the kickstarter (no decompressor). It was noisy, I never quite got the fueling sorted, it had cheap shite tyres and suspension so it handled badly, and it needed constant fiddling to keep it going. Yet it was very satisfying owning it.
For a while.
Soon 'character' evolves into 'annoying pain in the arse'.

I test-rode a brand new CBR1000 back in 98 or thereabouts, when I owned my VF500. The CB was the loveliest, smoothest bike I'd ever ridden (still is). I knew instinctively that I'd find that smoothness boring after a while.
My VFR has character (the sound of the gear-driven cams and V4 flat drone; the vibes under load at certain revs), and it looks nice. The engineering isn't on show (made a feature of) like on an Italian bike, and there are aspects that are crap (the single-sided swingarm and hub must be the ugliest around), it doesn't have USD forks, and performance and style are sacrificed in favour of reliability and trying to appeal to a broad market. That has made it bland to some extent, but at least I know I don't have to worry about missing services. It also means that my one bike can serve as a commuter, sports bike, and two-up tourer.

Here's another comparison: the VTR1000 was brought out by Honda to replace the Honda Hawk 650 in the Mrkn market, and in direct response to the growing popularity of the Ducati 900SS (and later, the 916). At the same time, Suzuki released the TL1000 for much the same reasons.
The VTR is very much compromised: in standard form it's quiet, has 'less than perfect' suspension and handling, and (IMO) failed. If it was better looking, had better suspension, and a bit more power, it would've been a great bike. Instead, by being 'middle of the road' it really appealed only to those who were perhaps scared off by rumours of Ducati service costs and taints of unreliability that persisted from earlier models, or who trusted the Honda name, or couldn't afford to own an Italian bike. It has most of the v-twin character, and most of the Honda reliability, but it's compromised too much and ends up being bland.

[imdying]

The testastretta bikes are even better.

Yeah, them too!

[johan]

The testastretta bikes are even better.

But they can't beat the sound of a properly tuned desmoquattro!

[dipshit]

Heh, I just feel that the testaretta equipped bikes have so much going for them, that to have to sell them off the back of magic fairy dust is actually pretty insulting for Ducati. The brakes, wheels and suspension alone makes the price of entry worth it on many models.

I sort of understand what mikeey01 is saying. After having a ride on a mate's 998... it did kind of make my SV feel bland.

The Duke did handle better... holding whatever line you picked regardless of the bumps and potholes it went over.

In many ways i would prefer to have a Ducati sitting in the garage. Perhaps that "character" is its extra street cred..???

The main thing that puts me off however is the mileage i like to rack up. The SV i can get on and go without worrying about it. How many 998's and so on have 100,000 ks on them without too much trouble???

[imdying]

The extra $18000 odd dollars that the 998 cost... do you wonder what Robert Taylor could do for you with that? BST carbon wheels, custom setup Ohlins Road and Track forks, and a TTX shock, that's what. Who's handling better now? :D Plus you won't be riding just another off the rack bike either (which lets face it, is what a 998 is).

[dipshit]

The extra $18000 odd dollars that the 998 cost... do you wonder what Robert Taylor could do for you with that? BST carbon wheels, custom setup Ohlins Road and Track forks, and a TTX shock, that's what. Who's handling better now? :D Plus you won't be riding just another off the rack bike either (which lets face it, is what a 998 is).

Very true. But for all the money i could throw at it - it will still only be a SV.

I feel i would rather putting all that money into a nice Ducati instead.

[imdying]

Very true. But for all the money i could throw at it - it will still only be a SV.

I feel i would rather putting all that money into a nice Ducati instead.Now you're being silly again... it's just a motorbike, the type of badge doesn't change that. For all the red paintwork... it's still only a Ducati. It's not like it's an MV or anything ;) (if you see my point?)

[Winston001]

Now you're being silly again... it's just a motorbike, the type of badge doesn't change that. For all the red paintwork... it's still only a Ducati. It's not like it's an MV or anything ;) (if you see my point?)

Horses for courses. You are right, a purpose built bike that is unique to you should always be special - unique. The badge becomes irrelevant but in that case, any badge should be removed. I quite like seeing bikes without a manufacturers emblem. Any prejudice is automatically removed.

Humans are not creatures of logic - we have individual emotional drives which differ from person to person. Viva la difference! Its why we argue, its where we get our passion from, it provides the variety and spice of life. Wouldn't the world be a dull bland place if we only made choices based on logic? No Taj Mahal, no Eiffel Tower, no Dussenburg.......



Very true. But for all the money i could throw at it - it will still only be a SV.

I feel i would rather putting all that money into a nice Ducati instead.

And this ultimately is the answer for most of us. Why experiment with another machine when you can get what you enjoy in one package?! :first:

If Ducatis were really unreliable, very expensive to service, and had short engine lives - do you think the company would still be in business? Think of Triumph Meridian, Norton, BSA.......... The reality is Ducati are very similar to the Japanese bikes in modern reliability terms. Their edge is they excite an extra frisson of spirit in owners - indefinable but essential.

If this spirit or passion were only marketing hype then IMHO Honda would win. Indeed they probably do on a profitability basis. No amount of hype will protect sub-standard products over the long term which is why Ducati upped their game in the mid-90s to improve reliability.

I don't think of my bike as having character when a screw comes loose - my mates with Japanese and German bikes have identical small events. The character comes from the whole package which includes the physical design. The Italians have a flair for that.

[vifferman]

I don't think of my bike as having character when a screw comes loose - my mates with Japanese and German bikes have identical small events.
I've owned seven Hondas, and the only thing that's ever fallen off (apart from the rider) was a footpeg on my very first one, the bolt of which probably broke from too many wheelstands, crashes, and that sort of thing.
I've had two occasions when I've been stuck on the side of the road - both times were R/R failures.

[scracha]

. No amount of hype will protect sub-standard products over the long term which is why Ducati upped their game in the mid-90s to improve reliability.


Look, they're beautiful bikes and I always said I'd get a 748 but there's no fuckin way anyone could say they're even 50% as reliable as a Japanese bike. My last Japanese bike did 3 times the mileage and probably had half as much spent on it. There...I said it. Handling, looks, brakes and oh...the sound. But they're expensive beasts to maintain and the engine performance isn't as good as the Japanese bikes. Luckily I don't really give a toss about engine performance as I'm man enough to admit that 99% of the time I've rarely got the twisty thing around more than 30% of the way round.

[Hiflyer]

Name me a motorcycle brand that doesn't have a racing heritage.


Hyosung? :laugh:

[Bonez]

Riding with a chap on a 600 duc and me on the dreaded La Trog ( a cicle 20 years older and 100cc down in capacity I might add) convinced me Ducatis aren't cracked up to what they're made out to be. It was a red one too.

But then again I'm biased.................:whistle:

[dipshit]

No amount of hype will protect sub-standard products over the long term which is why Ducati upped their game in the mid-90s to improve reliability.

Yes i have heard all of this before. Mid-90s and on were sorted... then someone says anything 2000 and on is a lot better for reliability... then when researching 999's it turns out the red frame 2005 and on are the ones to get because they have most of the problems sorted by then. WTF!!

Sorry, but I'm not totally convinced yet. :oi-grr:

Like another person i know called around the other day with a 2003 S4R monster he traded his R1 in on. It already has been back to the shop for 3 different problems so far. One fault is that the dash has died completely and now he has cardboard over the speedo and taco with a aftermarket digital instrument panel on top of them. :slap:

[mikeey01]

I'm sorry, I tried to restrain my self here...but this is the biggest load of bollox I have read in sometime.

Yeah your right it was crap! :slap:

[98tls]

The character modern day Ducati riders are so fond of talking about and so certain they feel (spooky really) disappeared with the Cagiva take over,who else would be stupid enough to make 10,000 Alazzurras when the world was crying out for Pantahs.They say the only way to truely understand the real meaning of Ducati character was to go to Bologna and drink copious amounts of red wine with those that made them.Growing up with an old man who had an 860 followed by a 78SS then an 80SS (both 900s) filled me with plenty of desire to own one as soon as i could,sadly the shit boxes available when it came my turn had as much character as a hard boiled egg,89/90 750 Sports and 900SS were dreadful bikes.The new ones are nice bikes for sure but any "character" they have is far from where the word was first associated with Ducati.My suggestion to anyone with a new one that wants to feel the "character" is to find someone with a 900SS take a trip round there and listen,not only can you feel it you can hear it,oddly enough i cant imagine how most modern day Ducati riders feel anything in there blimp suits.

[dipshit]

it's still only a Ducati. It's not like it's an MV or anything ;) (if you see my point?)

Do MV do V-twins...??? :msn-wink:

[98tls]

Do MV do V-twins...??? :msn-wink: Its KB,anythings possible.

[Bonez]

How do you know?
Have you ridden every last Jap model? Reading this thread, it would appear that "soul and character" can be translated to "quirkiness and unreliability", so on that basis plenty of Jap bikes have "soul and character" :laugh:Bling going your way sir.

[dipshit]

They say the only way to truely understand the real meaning of Ducati character was to go to Bologna and drink copious amounts of red wine with those that made them.

A mate of mine who was into his Alfa Romeos went to Italy and did just that. :niceone:

[McJim]

I think, despite the differing opinions voiced on this thread that the thread itself goes some way to explaining the phenomenon. A thread entitled "Wot's the Kawasaki difference?" or "Wot's the Honda difference?" would be met with a couple of posts saying "No difference bro" and "Meh, 10 Chars"

I like my bike and it gets me where I want to go at a speed I like.

[98tls]

I think, despite the differing opinions voiced on this thread that the thread itself goes some way to explaining the phenomenon. A thread entitled "Wot's the Kawasaki difference?" or "Wot's the Honda difference?" would be met with a couple of posts saying "No difference bro" and "Meh, 10 Chars"

I like my bike and it gets me where I want to go at a speed I like. Theres nothing to explain Jimmy.It is however amusing to read of late model Ducati owners character experiences.:shit:

[Voltaire]

Well the Ducati difference to me is one has bevel driven cams and the other has rubber bands.:headbang:

[TLDV8]

Well the Ducati difference to me is one has bevel driven cams and the other has rubber bands.:headbang:

<img src=http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c345/manurewa/Taglioni-A.jpg>



<img src=http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c345/manurewa/Duc.jpg>

[98tls]

Well the Ducati difference to me is one has bevel driven cams and the other has rubber bands.:headbang: Sadly mine had a rear cylinder stuck on backwards with a carb designed for a car stuck in the V,wrong size wheels and discs that buckled.

[TLDV8]

Sadly mine had a rear cylinder stuck on backwards with a carb designed for a car stuck in the V,wrong size wheels and discs that buckled.

Don't worry to much Mike,they stopped making Ducati's in the mid 1980's,as long as you weren't a member of IMOCK you are ok. :laugh:

1974 Ducati 750 GT, 1971 to 1974,the first production Ducati L Twin and first along the frame production bike available.

<img src=http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c345/manurewa/6bb7_3.jpg>

[98tls]

Don't worry to much Mike,they stopped making Ducati's in the mid 1980's,as long as you weren't a member of IMOCK you are ok. :laugh: Lol,mate i want to know what happened to all those Alazzurras?seen any lately?

[Voltaire]

Lol,mate i want to know what happened to all those Alazzurras?seen any lately?

I didn't see them at the factory museum either....hidden in the basement with the 500GTL and 860GT.
Dunno about the car carb, but the fuel injected air cooled two valver with silmoto exhausts does it for me.

Ducati is now owned by « Invest Industrial », an italian investment group.....how exciting is that......:nono:

[98tls]

Damn,must be slow interweb or something as when i read your post the pic wasnt showing Les,heartstopping, etc pic,glorious indeed.On a funny note i called into a bike shop today on the S,outside having a smoke was a guy on a 750 Paso,i exchanged hellos and went about my business,when about to leave he got yapping and in conversation he mentioned the fact that the TL was Suzukis dismal attempt at making a Ducati,no i couldnt hold back my laughter so whilst doing so put on my helmet and concentrated on keeping my spine straight as it wanted to bend over enough to let me hit the ground doubled up.Full of that Ducati character thing he was,bless him.All these years later when i see a Paso my first thought is its not raining so whys it got that ugly rain cover on.

[mikeey01]

Right E O all you pud knockers...


Ducati admit they can't compete with the Japanese on performance, price, or with some, on quality. Doesn't leave a lot.
I guess when a manufacturer is faced with such a huge discrepancy they have to invoke intangibles - eg "passion".

Ducati admit they can't compete with the Japanese on performance: umm really? Where?
Have they admitted this anytime over the last 17 (I think) years of World Super bikes? You show me where, please do.
Yeah I remember speaking with Giancarlo during a WSB manfield round back in the early 90's and he said the exact same thing, "we can't compete on performance with them jap bikes", Roche confirmed this by winning the race of course on his Ducati and Giancarlo, the wild card, he came second on his 888 if my memory serves me rightly?

You mention Performance in what respect? Handling? Ra ha ha ha.. there's a new tui bill board right there!

Price, Yeah okay so they cost a little more, big deal.

Doesn't leave a lot? Hey another famous Tui saying, Yeah Right!


Win? Win!? For nearly twice the money, they better be total fuckin annihilation, not just a mere win. Sadly, they're not.

The Ducati Corse team alone have won 14 Manufacturers’ World Championships and 12 Riders’ World Championships in the relatively short history of the WSB series. (17 yrs)

90 / 91 there's team police Ducati, Ramond Roche, Giancarlo Falappa, Stephane Mertens
more modern? Xerox Ducati, Troy Bayliss,
Shall I go on?



I'm sorry, I tried to restrain my self here...but this is the biggest load of bollox I have read in sometime.

Your right and I admit that it was a crap post :slap:, ya got me there. Sorry I'm not a word smith aye and most of the time find it hard to put stuff like that into words.



It's a motorbike, for God's sake. Yet you've imbued it with mystic powers, while (and this is the bit that got me going) saying that ..”Jap bikes don't have a soul or character".
Mystic power, nah I never said that!
Again the translation into words failed me.


”Jap bikes don't have a soul or character"
How do you know?
Have you ridden every last Jap model?
I did add one exception to classics such as Katana 1100 etc..
Ridden every jap model: Hell no, nor do I intend to.



Reading this thread, it would appear that "soul and character" can be translated to "quirkiness and unreliability", so on that basis plenty of Jap bikes have "soul and character" :laugh:
Quirkiness and un-reliability, some brands suffer from this and ducati's are not alone.
Soul and character, Does a KTM 950 ADV have more soul & character than a Yamaha TT 600R or a Suzuki-dr650r Paris Dakar?



And finally, try this exercise - I've taken one of your more flowery bits of prose and substituted "Harley Davidson" for "Ducati": It works - the wonders of marketing...:laugh:
Yeah right if ever, you live in your fairy tale then.
They are also the essence of unique Italian style and design. Ducatis are distinctive, functional and striking, There ya go some sales and marketing guff for ya!


Now you're being silly again... it's just a motorbike, the type of badge doesn't change that. For all the red paintwork... it's still only a Ducati. It's not like it's an MV or anything ;) (if you see my point?)
Nope as you've implied lets all loose the bike badges, they're all just bikes aye! for all the red it's still only a Ducati, abso freckin lootley!
Hardleys sounds like hardleys, Dukes sounds like dukes, jappers sound like jappers... You can still tell what they are just by the exhaust notes!



You should take my RGV for a hoon,
No thanks to the hoon on an RGV, been there done that, put a 1000 k on a mates one running it in for him for raceing.



RGV has more 'soul or character' in its cute little motor than an old Italian shit heap.
You on drugs or just sucking on them fumes to much?
You live with that dream.



Right.... and only a Ducati will give you that experience? Puuuhhleaseeee... you need to expand your horizons.
I didn't say that at all did I?, assumptions eh!



It's a motorbike, plastic and metal... you really want character? Never will the day come that a factory can build that in... Passion comes from your own heart, you can't buy that in stores man, no matter what the nice Ducati salesman trys to tell ya :msn-wink:
Yep Passion comes from the heart, I just love that thought each time I picture a designer in Japan putting his passion to paper and watching them Robot machines Passion building them.
Passion? Italians passion for design and building is timeless read on.....


Now you're being silly again... it's just a motorbike, the type of badge doesn't change that. For all the red paintwork... it's still only a Ducati. It's not like it's an MV or anything ;) (if you see my point?)
Yep your right, it's just a ducati.
Could re phrase that... it's only a Ferrari, or lamborghini or Maserati perhaps something modern like the Pagani Zonda, nope no soul and passion there!
It's okay though, it's only a Suzuki.


The extra $18000 odd dollars that the 998 cost... do you wonder what Robert Taylor could do for you with that? BST carbon wheels, custom setup Ohlins Road and Track forks, and a TTX shock, that's what. Who's handling better now? :D Plus you won't be riding just another off the rack bike either (which lets face it, is what a 998 is).
Yep them Dukes are just another off the rack common as bike aye, ya see them every where!
Those 888's are as common as, (they only made 2000 SP4's world wide) this of course was for WSB race homologation for Roche, Dunlop (IOM), Falappa, Mertens. ( As you advised previously "they couldn't compete with them jap bikes on performance", so they won WSB for that year and the one after too)
Arr they're common as mud aye.

When I stepped off a japper and moved to a pasta machines all those years ago I found apart of motorcycling that I never knew existed, ( O hell bear with me as I'm not word smith)
Hardleys have their own scene, know what I mean?

Italian bikes really are about emotion and passion.
Guzzies are one hell of a brute of a bike, I've always respected them and their owners. I ain't got the balls to ride one though!
Aprilias are sleek and petite, quick little friggen things they are.
Ducati's I reckon are in the middle, not petite nor brutal, I dunno how to put it into words.. :brick:

I've completely de-railed this thread :Offtopic: sorry as it was surpose to be about ST's..

[98tls]

Dear oh dear,feisty fella you and good luck to you i say passion is a wonderful thing personally i still find a 78 900SS the most desirable bike on earth.The 851 you speak of can be called desirable to apart from the fact that it takes 1/2 a day to remove the shit to do anything but if thats acceptable then so be it.Quoting race results is fine but lets not forget when the rest of the world got serious Ducati constantly bought out the whaaabulance in order to give them some advantage,best thing the japs could have done is said "sweet fuck off and race Buell for some glory and we will have our own superbikes",i have a fair idea what the world would watch and the sponsers would pay for.

[mikeey01]

Dear oh dear,feisty fella you and good luck to you i say passion is a wonderful thing personally i still find a 78 900SS the most desirable bike on earth.The 851 you speak of can be called desirable to apart from the fact that it takes 1/2 a day to remove the shit to do anything but if thats acceptable then so be it.Quoting race results is fine but lets not forget when the rest of the world got serious Ducati constantly bought out the whaaabulance in order to give them some advantage,best thing the japs could have done is said "sweet fuck off and race Buell for some glory and we will have our own superbikes",i have a fair idea what the world would watch and the sponsers would pay for.

nah not feisty, just miffed!
Yep that 78 900ss, nice bike (blue & grey ?).. I'm not sure which way I'll go for No.2 yet, pantah or SD or maybe an early 90's..
Race results, arr well according to forest they can't compete with them jap bikes.
Hey I'm not knocking jap bikes at all, I've owned way to many of em (there it's out, am I cured now?) I've still got a soft spot for some jappers I use to own and a few modern ones.
lol re the 851, yeah I'm over it (times like that I miss my 750ss) and just do it.. no different to anything else which has alot it really.

[imdying]

Ducati admit they can't compete with the Japanese on performance: umm really? Where?Every time they insist in WSB on having special rules for them that allow things like Ti con rods for one? :whistle:

The Ducati Corse team alone have won 14 Manufacturers’ World Championships and 12 Riders’ World Championships in the relatively short history of the WSB series. (17 yrs)Right... I'll remember that when I've $250,000 to buy a WSB :msn-wink:

Mystic power, nah I never said that!
Again the translation into words failed me.Deary me... how dare he add a little soul and character into his words... :laugh:

Yep Passion comes from the heart, I just love that thought each time I picture a designer in Japan putting his passion to paper and watching them Robot machines Passion building them.
Passion? Italians passion for design and building is timeless read on.....Phones for you... it's Tadao Baba, he says 'You're mistaken' :rofl: (in case you don't know, he's the guy that designed the Blade... the same crazy bike nutter that would give each journalists a set of clocks for the bike at new model launches... he was always so proud of each new design :Punk: You should check out the welding on the RC45 tank if you want hand crafted... the reality is though, you can't produce bikes in economical numbers without robots... the Wops would do it to if they could figure out how to make robots go... They tried, but apparently had trouble with the electrics? :blip:

Yep them Dukes are just another off the rack common as bike aye, ya see them every where!Interesting the number of results returned on trademe when searching for GSXR1000 and then Ducati 999...

nah not feisty, just miffed!No need to get miffed mate, it's not like you've got a vag or anything :rofl:

[vifferman]

Quoting race results is fine but lets not forget when the rest of the world got serious Ducati constantly bought out the whaaabulance in order to give them some advantage,best thing the japs could have done is said "sweet fuck off and race Buell for some glory and we will have our own superbikes",i have a fair idea what the world would watch and the sponsers would pay for.
That's the crux of it.
The RC45 would've cleaned up, were it not for the WSB owners deciding to allow Ducati a capacity advantage and a severe bending of the rules just to suit them. Granted, they still mostly cleaned up once Honda developed their own v-twin, but on the other hand, Honda were playing catchup and fairly limited development time compared to Ducati (albeit a much larger budget).

You don't really need to bring out Ducati's race record in justification. We get it: Ducatis are sexy, look and sound nice, and have something other bikes don't have. Thank goodness for that - the world'd be boring if we didn't have Italian, Mrkn and English bikes. Oh - and them funny orange ones too.
Shame that many of the marques of yesteryear (like the French ones) have gone down the gurgler.

[johan]

Every time they insist in WSB on having special rules for them that allow things like Ti con rods for one? :whistle:


They (Ducati) should homologate their v4 and race it in WSB with the same rules as every one else. That would be something to watch!

[imdying]

They (Ducati) should homologate their v4 and race it in WSB with the same rules as every one else. That would be something to watch!It would be, but it would be the end of them I'm afraid... they'd go broke if they produced 1500 D16RRs and tried to flog them for $135k each :'(

It may be missing the spirit of the WSB class a tiny bit though... I mean, I'd be a bit pissed if Honda brought their RC211V to WSB :oi-grr:

[johan]

It would be, but it would be the end of them I'm afraid... they'd go broke if they produced 1500 D16RRs and tried to flog them for $135k each :'(

It may be missing the spirit of the WSB class a tiny bit though... I mean, I'd be a bit pissed if Honda brought their RC211V to WSB :oi-grr:

I'm not saying take the GP bike to WSB. They should produce a road v4 999cc engine and start a new generation v4 road bike.

It would be a big step from their old traditions, but look at their latest prototype in motoPG. It doesn't have a twin nor the trellis frame. So obviously they don't mind taking a different route if they are forced to.

But I don't expect to see any changes any time soon...

[imdying]

I'm not saying take the GP bike to WSB. They should produce a road v4 999cc engine and start a new generation v4 road bike.Wouldn't even need to be a V4, although having a parallel to the GPx lineage would be cool :yes:

[Taz]

In the end race results mean nothing on the road......

[longwayfromhome]

In the end race results mean nothing on the road......

...mmm, and thats pretty important for many of us. I believe it was in Bike some years ago that an R1100S did the lot of them (yes, a beemer) in a real-world test over 100+ miles of pommie A/B roads, one of the Duc's coming in 2nd (998/999 from memory), one reason was the need for a gas stop on some of the bikes :-). Ahh, ya gotta love that telelever. So that was why I was keen on the ST4S , it had that Duc howl + it really could compete...it was just a few years after Gary Egan won the Iron Butt in the US on an ST4....and then there's the Multistrada..sweet.

If you've been price-conditioned by BMW, a Duc looks quite reasonable! If you've drunk the BMW-reliability Kool-aid, then a Duc approaches "solid". Neither brand is cost-justified in comparo with japanese brands, therefore it must be "something else"....if you buy one there is obviously something else for you, if you don't then even if the "something else" exists, it just ain't worth it. Who can blame either party? It just astonishes and annoys some people that others will pay the difference, then try and justify it with apparently nonsense justifications.

Perhaps the Harley crowd is right...if you don't like it, you don't understand.

[BMWST?]

i think all this thread really shows is how we humans humanise everything....ie bikes and kittens can have"personality".
Having said that though BMW s ARE different and once you swallow your predujice and ride and ride their way becomes a good way.....
same with Ducatis...when i first got mine i was astonished at how different it was than my previous 3 big UJM,s,but it got the job done in a completely different way,I could open the throttle wide and much much earlier than my previous bikes(900 and 1000) and i had to cos it only produced 400 cc top speeds albeit 750 cc levels of accell out of corners while still leaned over(as long as the road wasnt too bumpy).The carb on the rear cyclinder fell of in Te Kuiti.I had to use a bolt or nut from the front carby.See that's personality!
My K100 rs on the other hand did things completely different too,but at an extreme coming from the other side of the engine/suspension package of my Big twin.

[imdying]

Ahhh, kittens can have personality... you might have noticed that some will attack everything for fun, whilst others never leave a sun beam? That's there personality shining through :D

[Oscar]

i think all this thread really shows is how we humans humanise everything....ie bikes and kittens can have"personality".
Having said that though BMW s ARE different and once you swallow your predujice and ride and ride their way becomes a good way.....
same with Ducatis...when i first got mine i was astonished at how different it was than my previous 3 big UJM,s,but it got the job done in a completely different way,I could open the throttle wide and much much earlier than my previous bikes(900 and 1000) and i had to cos it only produced 400 cc top speeds albeit 750 cc levels of accell out of corners while still leaned over(as long as the road wasnt too bumpy).The carb on the rear cyclinder fell of in Te Kuiti.I had to use a bolt or nut from the front carby.See that's personality!
My K100 rs on the other hand did things completely different too,but at an extreme coming from the other side of the engine/suspension package of my Big twin.

Substitute a Japanese brand name for BMW or Ducati in that paragraph and you will realise it makes little or no sense. If a Honda did the things you describe, you'd say it was crap.

What you're saying is that you'll settle for sub-standard build quality and handling, provided it comes from a particular factory, and they make staunch ads.

Why don't you ride a Harley, then?

[JMemonic]

Bleeding heck all this talk about Jap sorts bikes vs Italian then comparisons to Harley, where did that really come from when the original question was whats the difference between a series of Ducati's, perhaps if comparisons are to be made compare like bikes the ST's are Sports Tourer's not sports bikes or tourers but a bike that fit somewhere in between, and in this role they are ideal, when I purchased mine I was looking for a bike that could fill my wish list, you know what Jap bikes had nothing to offer, there are stuff all sports tourers out there.

Sure when it comes to pure sports bikes some of the arguments used have merit but you know what they are the same arguments used to defend x brand vs h etc, ride what you want to ride, pay the maintenance you want to pay, as someone pointed out at the end of the day they are plastic and steel, (with assorted alloys thrown in), it all really pointless sitting here arguing with is better when you could be out riding.

[imdying]

it all really pointless sitting here arguing with is better when you could be out riding.No actually, stuck at work... it passes the hours during builds... :laugh:

[BMWST?]

Substitute a Japanese brand name for BMW or Ducati in that paragraph and you will realise it makes little or no sense. If a Honda did the things you describe, you'd say it was crap.

What you're saying is that you'll settle for sub-standard build quality and handling, provided it comes from a particular factory, and they make staunch ads.

Why don't you ride a Harley, then?

You have got me wrong.Where in my post am i saying that japanese brands dont have personality.I am merely noting that others have given bikes(not just beemers and duc's either) these traits.
I am not saying that they are better or worse.For instance many many people comment that the bmw swithgear is WRONG...however if you have a BMW and ride it every day the switchgear is not wrong,its just different to most other bikes...

[dipshit]

it all really pointless sitting here arguing with is better when you could be out riding.

Let me see... today i am having a peaceful relaxing day preparing my bike (cleaning, adjusting the chain, getting a new reg as it runs out tomorrow, etc) in order to ride over to the west coast tomorrow or Saturday for the Woodstock rally. Then after that taking the long way home via Nelson and back down the east coast as i don't have to be back at work until the 8th of Feb.

As i said, i like to rack up the miles as i regularly get long breaks from work... and is a major reason i feel i would be better off with the SV than a Ducati.

[Oscar]

You have got me wrong.Where in my post am i saying that japanese brands dont have personality.I am merely noting that others have given bikes(not just beemers and duc's either) these traits.
I am not saying that they are better or worse.For instance many many people comment that the bmw swithgear is WRONG...however if you have a BMW and ride it every day the switchgear is not wrong,its just different to most other bikes...

I'm sorry, I was getting wound up with some of the brand snobbery in this thread (not yours).

My point was I can understand why people will put up with shoddy design or build (which they're usually paying more for), because of a perceived or real exclusivity but I don't understand why they will also slag off other brands (usually Jap ones) for this lack of "personality".

My own experience with BMW was probably the cause of my grumpiness in this respect. Far from thinking my GS had some sort of "personality", I couldn't help thinking that for two-thirds of the price, I could have had a Jap bike that actually worked...

[BMWST?]

I'm sorry, I was getting wound up with some of the brand snobbery in this thread (not yours).

My point was I can understand why people will put up with shoddy design or build (which they're usually paying more for), because of a perceived or real exclusivity but I don't understand why they will also slag off other brands (usually Jap ones) for this lack of "personality".

My own experience with BMW was probably the cause of my grumpiness in this respect. Far from thinking my GS had some sort of "personality", I couldn't help thinking that for two-thirds of the price, I could have had a Jap bike that actually worked...

sorry to hear that...for the record both my bmw k 100 and ducati gave me very little trouble....unlike my kawasaki Z1000....

[JMemonic]

No actually, stuck at work... it passes the hours during builds... :laugh:

Spoilt you are, internet at work I dont know, oddly IT said emphaticly no when I asked to have access to KB at work, unsure why.;)



As i said, i like to rack up the miles as i regularly get long breaks from work... and is a major reason i feel i would be better off with the SV than a Ducati.

Fair enough, at the end of the day its about what suits the rider, and that was the point, some folks do get a little anal about brands never understood why I would have another ST but maybe not any other Ducati, and you will not see me going out buying Ducati underwear :wacko:, unlike some folks and their brand of bike.

[dipshit]

Fair enough, at the end of the day its about what suits the rider, and that was the point, some folks do get a little anal about brands never understood why I would have another ST but maybe not any other Ducati, and you will not see me going out buying Ducati underwear :wacko:, unlike some folks and their brand of bike.

I'm totally open to having my mind changed if a few Ducati owners pipe up at having clocked up 100,000 + kms without too much trouble on their later model bikes...???

[sondela]

Seems like there is a lot of unnecessary aggro in this world already, sigh..
I think that there are as many different people out there, as there are bikes to suit them..it would be a shame if we didn't celebrate our differences by totally enjoying the bikes we ride, whatever they are.
It's the bikes that join us people as a group, and our love of them, in all their different glories.
Go out there, wave at bikers and be happy... oh and Long Live Ducatis! :laugh:

[Winston001]

I'm totally open to having my mind changed if a few Ducati owners pipe up at having clocked up 100,000 + kms without too much trouble on their later model bikes...???

Good question. I've just browsed the Ducati MS forum where it has been discussed. I'd love to point you to a thread of owners with over 100,000k - and there are some - but most (American) posters average around 30,000 miles, with their bikes still running well and no problems.

There are a couple of reasons why talk of high mileage isn't common.

1. Many overseas Ducati owners worry about depreciation in value as the miles increase. Might be the same here, I don't know. There does appear to be a sanctified attitude by some towards their bikes - kept cosseted in warm garages and only brought out on perfect days for short rides. The Japanese Ducatis being brought in give this impression.

2. Ducati produce different types of bikes with different performance expectations. No-one complains about rebuilding high-performance two-smokes. Similarly bikes like the 748r are designed to high performance specs, not generous tolerances, and they can wear. By comparison the ST series are designed for longevity. I'd hazard a guess that the current Sport Classics such as the 900SS would go far as well.

The one theme which comes up time and time again is that following the maintenance schedule is very important. Japanese bikes seem to be more forgiving in that sense.

[Max Preload]

There are a couple of reasons why talk of high mileage isn't common.

1. Many overseas Ducati owners worry about depreciation in value as the miles increase. Might be the same here, I don't know. There does appear to be a sanctified attitude by some towards their bikes - kept cosseted in warm garages and only brought out on perfect days for short rides. The Japanese Ducatis being brought in give this impression.

But if it's all about 'passion' surely mere depreciation isn't a factor... :Pokey:

[imdying]

2. Ducati produce different types of bikes with different performance expectations. No-one complains about rebuilding high-performance two-smokes. Similarly bikes like the 748r are designed to high performance specs, not generous tolerances, and they can wear. By comparison the ST series are designed for longevity. I'd hazard a guess that the current Sport Classics such as the 900SS would go far as well.I agree with that... the 999 makes about 50 gazillion more HP than my SV, I can accept it wouldn't truck along to a 100 thou without some work. Besides, most bikes hit something solid well before they get that far.

[johan]

I'm totally open to having my mind changed if a few Ducati owners pipe up at having clocked up 100,000 + kms without too much trouble on their later model bikes...???

There is one supersport being raced at the tracks. I talked to the owner at Manfeild and he told me he did 100,000km on the road before he decided to race it. He did a head rebuild and is now trashing it on the track. I though that was pretty neat.

I'm not saying Ducati engines are bullet proof. I've had an engine done only 15000km with internal problems costing me dear money to fix, just from road riding. I've also trashed my 998 at the tracks that I bought with no service record and unknown kms with great success and the engines is looking good last time it was looked at internally. I promise to update you all when it blows up.

Buying a superbike spec'ed engine I know pretty well what to expect and what to ask from the engine. I also know that the more exotic models such as RS, R have a lot more aggressive cams, light con rods etc, made for performance, not reliability, which requires a lot of attention. You might want to stay away from them unless you really need the extra HP.

The desmodromic design has a lot of moving parts grinding each other and we all know it's not the most maintenance free solution.
What is odd is one of the desmo design advantages is precise valve control at high revs opposed to floating valves back in the day when springs were hard to manufacture. When was the last time you saw a high revving Ducati? Sure the GP8 cuts out at what 20.000 rpms, but for the lazy twins we're cruise with, I'm not sure what the advantage is!?
Maybe it's the personality/character after all?

[mikeey01]

Buying a superbike spec'ed engine I know pretty well what to expect and what to ask from the engine.
The desmodromic design has a lot of moving parts grinding each other and we all know it's not the most maintenance free solution.
Maybe it's the personality/character after all?

I'm hearing ya brother, I'm hearing ya :niceone:

55,000 k on my SB and still going just fine, gotta keep that maintenance up to em!

[AllanB]

.
Perhaps the Harley crowd is right...if you don't like it, you don't understand.


I like the Harley - but I don't understand the price premium!!! :oi-grr:
:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:


I'm pretty sure they sell them on a per kilo system.........

[warewolf]

I like the Harley
...
I'm pretty sure they sell them on a per kilo system.........This may be closer to the truth than you realise. One of the items from Triumph's market research was that any bike under 320kg was considered a lightweight, so that became the minimum weight target for the Rocket III.

[imdying]

Yikes! My bikes don't weigh that much between them! :eek:

[far queue]

I like the Harley - but I don't understand the price premium!!! :oi-grr:
:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:


I'm pretty sure they sell them on a per kilo system.........Yep, it's the scrap metal value

[Bullitt]

The desmodromic design has a lot of moving parts grinding each other and we all know it's not the most maintenance free solution.
What is odd is one of the desmo design advantages is precise valve control at high revs opposed to floating valves back in the day when springs were hard to manufacture. When was the last time you saw a high revving Ducati? Sure the GP8 cuts out at what 20.000 rpms, but for the lazy twins we're cruise with, I'm not sure what the advantage is!?
Maybe it's the personality/character after all?

Thats pretty much it as far as I can tell. Ducati stick with Desmodromic valves despite the fact they dont really provide any advantages anymore. An example of it can be found at:
http://www.sigmaperformance.com/748-853.html

Ducati had been given the budget to take on the Japanese by the company's new owners the Castiglioni's. With help from Cosworth, Inginiere Bordi updated the 4V Desmodromic treatise he had prepared as a student at Bologna University and set to work. The valves were quite small and, to get the Desmodromic mechanism in between the valves, the valve angle was not as flat as Cosworth would have liked (an included angle of 40 degrees rather than a sub 30-degree number that could have been achieved with valve springs). Ducati wanted to stick with their preferred Desmo system and decided the sacrifice was worth it.

[johan]

Thats pretty much it as far as I can tell. Ducati stick with Desmodromic valves despite the fact they dont really provide any advantages anymore. An example of it can be found at:
http://www.sigmaperformance.com/748-853.html

Thanks for that link!

I found this article where I can see the desmodromic stuff makes sense:
http://www.totalracingsolutions.com/215/

[limbimtimwim]

Ducatis are for wankers.

[imdying]

Ducati's are for wankers.Nearly right... motorcycles are for wankers ;)

[Dooly]

There is one supersport being raced at the tracks. I talked to the owner at Manfeild and he told me he did 100,000km on the road before he decided to race it. He did a head rebuild and is now trashing it on the track. I though that was pretty neat.

You sure it was'nt a ST2?
A mate of mine has one that has done over 100 I think, or damn near it and he's racing it, and has been for years, plus lots of road use.

[Voltaire]

Geez...Desmos get people wound up like springs...:dodge:

[McJim]

Ducatis are for wankers.

Are you claiming that you have NEVER played with your willy?:rofl:

[testastretta]

Ducatis are for wankers.
Here ya go limbimtimwimjism.Take a couple of viagra and spank away.If this dosnt do it for ya I'm sure some other Ducatisti will offer pics of their Ducs.

[TLDV8]

Ducatisti


I just had the urge to have a Latte,it will have to be a mix in the cup job though being a Beveldrive owner. :laugh:

[Trudes]

Well I rode my first Ducati :love: today!!!
Took the new Monster 696 out for a spin...... what a cool bike!!:yes: It loves corners!!!!
I, unfortunately, didn't know how to ride it nicely and reved the shit out of the poor thing.... it didn't like me red-lining it, the red flashing lights were pretty though!!!! :laugh:

[Bullitt]

Mental note: Dont buy 696 Monster demo from Motomart:whistle:

[Winston001]

Here ya go limbimtimwimjism.Take a couple of viagra and spank away.If this dosnt do it for ya I'm sure some other Ducatisti will offer pics of their Ducs.

But...but...it's got no clothes on! :wacko:

Not sure why the Monsters are so popular when Ducati make a range of beautifully fairinged sports bikes, but whatever smokes your tyres. :woohoo:

[pritch]

I, unfortunately, didn't know how to ride it nicely and reved the shit out of the poor thing....

That's a big come-down in power from what you're accustomed to.

Friend of mine, a very experienced biker, has worked in the industry for years, went for a ride on a Duc and said it reminded him of a 1960s VW Beetle...

Now now all you Ducatisti, don't start shooting the messenger. :calm:

[piston broke]

:2guns::2guns::2guns:
:msn-wink:

[McJim]

That's a big come-down in power from what you're accustomed to.

Friend of mine, a very experienced biker, has worked in the industry for years, went for a ride on a Duc and said it reminded him of a 1960s VW Beetle...

Now now all you Ducatisti, don't start shooting the messenger. :calm:

Yeah well there are Ducatis and Ducatis arenlt there? I sold my Honda VTR 250 and bought a Ducati 600ss - a modern Jappa to an old Italian. Funny though - it felt like going from a Ford Fiesta to an XR8 <_<.

Most people trying a GSXR1000 and going to a $120,000 Desmosedici would probably notice a step up in power and handling too.

Not surprising if someone goes from a multivalve, liquid cooled 4 cyl to a 2 valve per cyl, air cooled 2 cyl that there will be a drop in power is there?

[Winston001]

...................went for a ride on a Duc and said it reminded him of a 1960s VW Beetle...

Now now all you Ducatisti, don't start shooting the messenger. :calm:

Uh huh. Tell me, do you feel lucky.....well, do ya??

117792

[testastretta]

But...but...it's got no clothes on! :wacko:

Not sure why the Monsters are so popular when Ducati make a range of beautifully fairinged sports bikes, but whatever smokes your tyres. :woohoo:

I agree that Ducati make some beautiful faired bikes(my previous was a 749s)and that the watercooled motors look better covered up.But I also think that the air cooled motor and trellis frame are a thing of beauty and why hide it.
The pic was of a Hypermotard not a monster by the way but I'm sure you knew that already.:msn-wink:

[Bonez]

Yeah well there are Ducatis and Ducatis arenlt there? I sold my Honda VTR 250 and bought a Ducati 600ss - a modern Jappa to an old Italian. Funny though - it felt like going from a Ford Fiesta to an XR8 <_<.

Hmm over twice the capacity. Not surprising really is it? Wouldn't call the VTR modern either. It's been around in one quise or tuther since the '80s

Edit-Opps forgot the ;)

[Bonez]

Winston001 I'm curious as to your experiances with the ST4. A chap I ride with has a 500 Pantah and has been toying with the idea of getting a bigger Duc for touring. It'd be nice to give him some owner feedback on the ST4. PM me if you like.

[Winston001]

The pic was of a Hypermotard not a monster by the way but I'm sure you knew that already.:msn-wink:

:doh: Teach me to not click the image. :slap:

[Winston001]

Winston001 I'm curious as to your experiances with the ST4. A chap I ride with has a 500 Pantah and has been toying with the idea of getting a bigger Duc for touring. It'd be nice to give him some owner feedback on the ST4. PM me if you like.

No trouble, PM sent. I think for a Ducati purist the ST is a compromise, but it is a sports bike which is comfortable as a tourer. I've just done 4000k around the North Island and would do it again.

[Forest]

Here ya go limbimtimwimjism.Take a couple of viagra and spank away.If this dosnt do it for ya I'm sure some other Ducatisti will offer pics of their Ducs.

Pictures of my Duc.

[Oscar]

Pictures of my Duc.

It appears to be in a trailer or crate.

































How long has it been since it broke down...?:Pokey:

[TLDV8]

Late 1970's NCR 950 TT F1

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[popelli]

Not surprising if someone goes from a multivalve, liquid cooled 4 cyl to a 2 valve per cyl, air cooled 2 cyl that there will be a drop in power is there?


strange that I went from an ancient 2 valve v twin push rod motor to a ducati and it felt like going from something with loads of grunt to a jappa that had to be revved like hell to perform

even stranger running both all bikes on the same dyno proved the point

ducati 900ss 60 ft lbs torque

52 harley panhead 64 ft lbs of torque

77 iron head sportster 67 ft lbs torque

[Forest]

It appears to be in a trailer or crate.

How long has it been since it broke down...?:Pokey:

Funny you should say that. I just got the belts replaced on a bike that's done less than 2,000km.

Apparently its bad for the belts if the engine goes unused for too long. :oi-grr:

However the photos are of the day I took it out of the crate (after I shipped it to Melbourne).

[scracha]

Ducatis are for wankers.
FFS. You own a Suzuki so you'll know all about owning shitebikes.

[TLDV8]

1974 750 Sport (Made from 1972 to 1974)

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[McJim]

strange that I went from an ancient 2 valve v twin push rod motor to a ducati and it felt like going from something with loads of grunt to a jappa that had to be revved like hell to perform

even stranger running both all bikes on the same dyno proved the point

ducati 900ss 60 ft lbs torque

52 harley panhead 64 ft lbs of torque How many cc?

77 iron head sportster 67 ft lbs torqueHow many cc?


Thought to was too obvious to mention but a drop in cubic centimetres will have the same effect.

[TLDV8]

US$80000 (NZ$158,082.47)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Motorcycles___1974-DUCATI-750ss-Imola-Green-Frame-ORIGINAL_W0QQitemZ140281171006QQddnZMotorcyclesQQd diZ2283QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_motorcycles?hash=item 140281171006&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A727|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318

1974 750 SS (Round case engine) Triple cast iron brake rotors,triple twin piston calipers,
38 mm forks,bronze swing arm bushes with 28 mm pivot tube,big tapered roller steering
head bearings,desmodromic 750cc engine..etc etc.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/bg5GwWhyjJQ&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/bg5GwWhyjJQ&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


<img src=http://i16.ebayimg.com/02/i/001/1b/45/7799_12.JPG>

1975 900 SS (Square case engine)

NZ$69,508.44

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Motorcycles___1975-DUCATI-900ss-ORIGINAL-LOW-MILES-RARE_W0QQitemZ140281184143QQddnZMotorcyclesQQddiZ2 283QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_motorcycles?hash=item1402 81184143&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A727|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318

<img src=http://i10.ebayimg.com/07/i/001/1b/4a/6725_12.JPG>

[popelli]

Thought to was too obvious to mention but a drop in cubic centimetres will have the same effect.

for all the technology advances the capacity difference doesn't explain everything, you have an ancient push rod motor with a simple carb vs over head cam desmo heads and fuel injection

harley 1000 cc 67 ft lb

ducati 900cc 60 ft lb

[Highlander]

On the ST series its not the speedo cluster but the computer that provides the data from what I can tell, mine is ex Japan 7500Km on the clock and I think it was genuine, big problem with them is they have sat and not been used, which they need to be, the belts are screwed up from sitting in one position all the time.

Ok.
So I got this far on about page 4 or 5, then skipped forward (going back to pick up where I left off shortly).

If you expect the Belts to be stuffed from sitting so long and change them early in your ownership are there any other issues one might expect from one of the freshly imported ST series?

Are they as really as expensive to maintain and as unreliable as the rumours indicate?

I love the look and sound and there are more appearing in my price bracket but have beena bit put off by the expense / unreliablity rumours.

For the sake of the comparison the other leading contenders are VFR800, Triumph Sprint.

[Winston001]

Ok.
So I got this far on about page 4 or 5, then skipped forward (going back to pick up where I left off shortly).

If you expect the Belts to be stuffed from sitting so long and change them early in your ownership are there any other issues one might expect from one of the freshly imported ST series?

Are they as really as expensive to maintain and as unreliable as the rumours indicate?

I love the look and sound and there are more appearing in my price bracket but have beena bit put off by the expense / unreliablity rumours.

For the sake of the comparison the other leading contenders are VFR800, Triumph Sprint.

My experience so far is very good. My 2001 ST4 is a Japanese import and was first owned in NZ by Badcat. He found it a little short for his height and traded to a Buell. I bought it from Kerry Jeffs at KTL - good straight deal.

The bike had 8600k on it and new belts - full Haldanes service done by Badcat which cost about $1000. It now has 19,000k. I've spent money on a tyre, brake pads, oil change and bits and pieces. The bike has been totally reliable. It is due a service at 20,000k which will include valve collets. Shouldn't need new belts yet.

One head gasket is weeping slightly and I'll consider having that fixed at 30,000k which is when the belts should also be replaced. To be honest, a small oil weep doesn't bother me.

From what I can gather on Ducati MS forum and talking to people, keeping up the service intervals is important. If that is done these machines are as reliable as similar Japanese bikes.

So in summary, there is a cost to owning any large motorcycle. Ducatis probably need servicing a bit more often that an equivalent Japanese, but it depends on who you talk to.

[JMemonic]

Ok.
So I got this far on about page 4 or 5, then skipped forward (going back to pick up where I left off shortly).

If you expect the Belts to be stuffed from sitting so long and change them early in your ownership are there any other issues one might expect from one of the freshly imported ST series?

Are they as really as expensive to maintain and as unreliable as the rumours indicate?

I love the look and sound and there are more appearing in my price bracket but have beena bit put off by the expense / unreliablity rumours.

For the sake of the comparison the other leading contenders are VFR800, Triumph Sprint.

Honestly mine is still a joy and pleasure to ride, I have an issue with the seat covering breaking down, that I now suspect was cause by the was I used, but I intended to get the set recovered and sculpted anyhow.

[EJK]

Does operating dry clutch needs a little more skill?

What's the difference?

[Oscar]

Does operating dry clutch needs a little more skill?

What's the difference?

It makes passersby ask "..what the fuck is wrong with your bike..?!"

Ducatista like it when their bikes get noticed.

[EJK]

It makes passersby ask "..what the fuck is wrong with your bike..?!"

Ducatista like it when their bikes get noticed.

I was watching this video and came to a question "Hmmm is it easier to stall with dry clutch?"

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Is it just that guy a poser or is operating dry clutch is no different to wet clutch? Sorry I never used dry clutch before.

[jim.cox]

Ah the "Dreaded Ducati Dump" strikes again

It is his bike now, with the scars to prove it

[Badcat]

My experience so far is very good. My 2001 ST4 is a Japanese import and was first owned in NZ by Badcat. He found it a little short for his height and traded to a Buell. I bought it from Kerry Jeffs at KTL - good straight deal.

The bike had 8600k on it and new belts - full Haldanes service done by Badcat which cost about $1000. It now has 19,000k. I've spent money on a tyre, brake pads, oil change and bits and pieces. The bike has been totally reliable. It is due a service at 20,000k which will include valve collets. Shouldn't need new belts yet.

One head gasket is weeping slightly and I'll consider having that fixed at 30,000k which is when the belts should also be replaced. To be honest, a small oil weep doesn't bother me.

From what I can gather on Ducati MS forum and talking to people, keeping up the service intervals is important. If that is done these machines are as reliable as similar Japanese bikes.

So in summary, there is a cost to owning any large motorcycle. Ducatis probably need servicing a bit more often that an equivalent Japanese, but it depends on who you talk to.

hey winston.
glad the bike has been a good one.
all the best.
ken

[Winston001]

I was watching this video and came to a question "Hmmm is it easier to stall with dry clutch?"


Is it just that guy a poser or is operating dry clutch is no different to wet clutch? Sorry I never used dry clutch before.

Nah he's just a tool. :D

Ducatis have a very high first gear and if you aren't used to it, easy to stall.

They are tall geared to pass European noise regulations although the standard mufflers are pretty effective anyway.

As for the dry clutch, no different to a wet clutch. Just adds character. :2thumbsup:

Normally one of the first mods is to put on a larger back sprocket. 43 tooth for an ST4. I run 15:43. Much better around town.

[2wheeldrifter]

:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:

or put a 14tooth on the front.....

[Elysium]

As for the dry clutch, no different to a wet clutch. Just adds character. :2thumbsup:


They do wear out faster then a wet clutch.
.

[LBD]

HOW DID I MISS THIS THREAD?

Its is a fall in love thing, or was with me...My first Duc was an S4 with 10K 5 years ago, after a few years of dirt and trail bikes. I saw this S4 and fell in lust. The dealer asked if I wanted a ride, I said no, it has been a few years since I had ridden a decent road bike, I would not know a good from bad bike I just knew I needed a road bike again, and this one was it come hell or high water. I went and bought it on the spot and rode it out the shop a hour or so later. 3 1/2 years later and with 35k on the clock I traded in on the S4Rs before that model was no longer available...

Most memorable moment? 5 minutes after picking up the first bike, on Hagley ave, in 2nd only, I gave the throttle a wee twist...Oh shite and was I scared of that throttle for a while or what. It was a respectful love from then on.:hug:

Now with the new bike, there has been lots of sensible bling added...its not a bike anymore, shes my bike!

Ride one and you will understand why Italian twin owners are obsesed with their bikes...

[Bend-it]

Ride one and you will understand why Italian twin owners are obsesed with their bikes...

I did, and hated it! Test rode a 916 a couple of years back and didn't like it at all... I'm gonna get abused for this... but I rode a cbr1000 straight after the 916 and absolutely loved it in comparison!

So there...

Having said that, I am currently riding an italian bike with a jappa twin... best of both worlds if you ask me... :love:

[Oscar]

I did, and hated it! Test rode a 916 a couple of years back and didn't like it at all... I'm gonna get abused for this... but I rode a cbr1000 straight after the 916 and absolutely loved it in comparison!

So there...

Having said that, I am currently riding an italian bike with a jappa twin... best of both worlds if you ask me... :love:

Makes prefect sense to me...

[limbimtimwim]

Is it just that guy a poser or is operating dry clutch is no different to wet clutch? Sorry I never used dry clutch before.They are fine. Both 748s I have ridden required a little more care than my 749 and 999 to operate, but nothing that someone paying attention while they get used to a new bike should have a problem with.

I know the new 696 monster and the 848 have wet clutches, so maybe Ducati have realised they were just a load a rattle-wank to attract attention.

[LBD]

They are fine. Both 748s I have ridden required a little more care than my 749 and 999 to operate, but nothing that someone paying attention while they get used to a new bike should have a problem with.

I know the new 696 monster and the 848 have wet clutches, so maybe Ducati have realised they were just a load a rattle-wank to attract attention.

Wear inside an oil filled compartment ie engine or transmission seperate or together is caused largely by contaminant particles...(The accepted figure are between 70% and 84% of wear, depending on which machine manufacturer you ask)

The quickest way to increase the life of a machine is use good clean oil changed on or ahead of time, good filtration and then to minimise contamination...

Be Patient I am getting there....

Contamination comes from outside the compartment, dirt and dust, it can be introduced when the compartment is opened for maintenance or when dirty oil is used from new(Thats another subject) or....

Contaminants are internally generated, from metal to metal contact when the lube barrier breaks down, or from friction material...Clutches! By having a dry clutch you are removing that contamination from inside the engine.

Then there is an oils greatest enemy..heat. Heat from friction which is mainly generated in the clutch, causes the oil to oxidize and break down and also affects the additive package. When this happens the effective lubrication of the oil is reduced again increasing wear and partical generation...vicious circle that one, wear rates increase exponentially with oil age/condition.

Lastly Oil selection opportunities (I have not delved into this but know they are there)...with a wet clutch the optimum engine oil is restricted in that, you cannot use any real friction modifiers in the oil because the clutch relies on friction, and would slip if there was not enough of it, with a dry clutch you do not have that restriction and can use the best sliperiest lowest friction generating oil, no worries.

[pritch]

Most motorbikes are toys (eg sprotbikes), or tools (commuters and tourers).
Many Ducatis though are just fashion accessories.


And this from someone currently contemplating buying one? :whistle:

[AllanB]

Most motorbikes are toys (eg sprotbikes), or tools (commuters and tourers).
Many Ducatis though are just fashion accessories.


And this from someone currently contemplating buying one? :whistle:


Don't forget to accessorise, the Ducati catalogue has lots of goodies!

[johan]

I did, and hated it! Test rode a 916 a couple of years back and didn't like it at all... I'm gonna get abused for this... but I rode a cbr1000 straight after the 916 and absolutely loved it in comparison!


A 916/996/998 superbike is the last thing I would buy as a road bike.

At the track on the other hand... :ride:

[SixPackBack]

My Ducati experience?

Bought a new 750 Monster in 1998. After 10000 km and a noticeable drop in power all the valves and valve guides needed replacing, the Ducati dealer in Nerang [Gold Coast] tried repeatedly over the next 30000km to re-seal the rear cylinder with new pistons/rings all with little success.

I sold the piece of shit, came back to N.Z and have only ever purchased jappers since.

If you want long term reliability, value packed motorcycling and have a tendency to rape your trusty stead stay well away from Ducati. They sure look pretty but like skinny chicks tend to break with little provocation.

[limbimtimwim]

Most motorbikes are toys (eg sprotbikes), or tools (commuters and tourers).
Many Ducatis though are just fashion accessories.As much as I love to give them shit, I've never ridden a Ducati I didn't like. They are good fun, not the fastest, not the most reliable, not the most maintenance friendly, but still good fun.

[AllanB]

They sure look pretty but like skinny chicks tend to break with little provocation.

So you can't throw a Ducati over the back of the couch during commercial break and have your way with it then?

[LBD]

So you can't throw a Ducati over the back of the couch during commercial break and have your way with it then?

after all...thats the way the ducati treats your bank balance... I know that for sure... and as for the lady in my life, well she likes to try and match me $ for $ on clothes and accessories....:yes:

[Winston001]

I did, and hated it! Test rode a 916 a couple of years back and didn't like it at all... I'm gonna get abused for this... but I rode a cbr1000 straight after the 916 and absolutely loved it in comparison!

So there...

Having said that, I am currently riding an italian bike with a jappa twin... best of both worlds if you ask me... :love:

Always good to get another point of view. Personally I love the 916 motor in the ST4 but haven't ridden a pure 916 for comparison. They are different bikes with the 916 being aggressively sports. The ST4 is better geared and setup for distance riding.

[Dooly]

Love the noise of the Duc.
So much so, this week I've gutted all the packing and sound shit out of my carbon Remus cans and its now straight thru pipes.
Should sound obscenely obnoxious and..............nice...:lol:
Luckily I live country and my nearest neighbour 800 metres away has a Darma, so no probs there.......:2thumbsup

[Insanity_rules]

Not quite the answer one would expect given your question, I just couldn't resist :)

So wot's the Ducati difference?
Well, aside from it's italian background, it's racing heritage, and it's looks....it's because it's exclusive. I'll tell you how.

People who choose to ride Italian choose them for PASSION.
These are the most uneconomical, overly engineered, at times horrible electronics, and worst "bang for the buck" in motorcycles.

You ride it because you have a passion for riding it. You don't care about "I reached 280 yesterday..." or "my bike is the most comfy out of everybodies..." or "I get more HP for the dollar...".

You ride it because of it's history, it's uniqueness, and it's soul.

Jap bikes don't have a soul or character. It's the little things, the details, and the timeless design.

The 851/888/916/996/998 is reveled as a timeless design. You can still ride a 90 Ducati 851 into a group of motorcycles, and everybody will look in awe, if not in awe, for the simple fact you don't see them all over the place. Ride up to the group with a 90 Yamaha, Suzuki, or Kwak and nobody will pay any attention to you cause it's "dated". There is are exceptions, granted... such as the classics, Katana 1100 and so on.

Ducati is not for everyone (I'm not reffering to the price) but to the feeling a rider gets out of it. The torque curve is flatter, It handles nicely but it feels different. the engine sound is unique. :)
After riding a ducati you still dont get it or dont like it, then a ducati is not for you.

So Wot's the Ducati difference?
Take one for a ride and find out!


:love: Ducati's

This man is a true evangelist. Testify brother. I loved mine and will love another when I find the right replacement. The two neutrals, the bastardly cold morning starts, the price of parts, the general mechanical ignorance and the tank that tries to punch you in the stomach asside I found nothing more rewarding that carving up road on my lil ss. The sound, the feel, the look and that f n awesome motor more than made up for its short comings.

I am truly hooked. BTW I'm a Desmodue freak.

[SixPackBack]

Check this (http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=36407) out!

[jim.cox]

So wot's the Ducati difference?


For me its the 'Grin Factor'

I just get this huge silly grin across my face every time I take the bike out.

Even just thinking about riding brings on a smile.

More fun per mile by far :)

[LBD]

For me its the 'Grin Factor'

I just get this huge silly grin across my face every time I take the bike out.

Even just thinking about riding brings on a smile.

More fun per mile by far :)

Grin n tonic bout sums it up....to many grin and tonix and I get all gigglely...on my duc.

[SixPackBack]

Does anyone here use their Ducati everyday and rack up big distances?

[jim.cox]

Does anyone here use their Ducati everyday and rack up big distances?

I wish I could answer "Yes" to that. Love putting on the miles, but not daily

The reality is that between home and work the oil hardly starts to get warm, that there are too many traffic lights and that the old girl does not really make he best 'around town' commuter.

Between towns is a different story though :)

[kittytamer]

Does anyone here use their Ducati everyday and rack up big distances?



Yep! I commute on my Multistrada everyday and I did a lap of the South Island over Christmas with the Mrs on the back. Had it for a year and done 2 services already, and there's no such thing as a minor service, but whenever I try to think of an alternative that will do everything it does as well, I can't. So I guess I'm stuck with the expence, because it's so much fun everytime I ride it.

[BMWST?]

thanks guys....I only wanted to know the difference between st2,st3,and St4,and that was answered on the first page!

[LBD]

Does anyone here use their Ducati everyday and rack up big distances?



Clocked up many kms on my Monster when resident,

Now I clock up many miles on my new monster when I get to see her, ie 5500km in 9 days.

have ridden Te Anau Picton in a day comfortably...

[SixPackBack]

I would love a Ducati sports bike but in order to own one it would have to put up with what my present ride does:

Ridden [I]every day.
At least 20K a year.
Has to last at least 5 years [i.e 100K] without major surgery.
Is a Ducati sports bike capable of that level of reliability?

[LBD]

I would love a Ducati sports bike but in order to own one it would have to put up with what my present ride does:

Ridden [I]every day.
At least 20K a year.
Has to last at least 5 years [i.e 100K] without major surgery.
Is a Ducati sports bike capable of that level of reliability?

Not all Ducs certainly, and if I was a city commuter I would think twice before using any of the more sports orientated bikes in general. Possibly the likes of a 696 or the new 1100 monster and I beleive there is a KB commuter on a Multistrada who thinks it is suitable.

[Insanity_rules]

Not all Ducs certainly, and if I was a city commuter I would think twice before using any of the more sports orientated bikes in general. Possibly the likes of a 696 or the new 1100 monster and I beleive there is a KB commuter on a Multistrada who thinks it is suitable.

The smaller engine SS 400/600 and their matching sized monsters are great city bike and plenty reliable. I racked up 4 thou on my ss in 3 months daily commuting and it was great. The lil ones are really well over engineered. I sized mine up against the same year 900ss of a guy I ride with and over 50% of it was identical. Bitter irony is I was offered that 900 and am considering buying it. He commutes every day and just replaced it with a 900 ie monster.

[LBD]

The smaller engine SS 400/600 and their matching sized monsters are great city bike and plenty reliable.

I had been thinking current models but yes I think you are right about the 400/600/620 monsters...

[Insanity_rules]

I had been thinking current models but yes I think you are right about the 400/600/620 monsters...

Yeah what is with the current model line up not having entry level sporties and not selling a 4 or 6 hundred monster anymore? I recond Duc missed the boat there.

The 620 Monster especially is a great Lil beast.