Forks and springs

[cheese]

I was talking to some people in the weekend and they said that while you can take some of the harshness out of a MX bikes forks with valving, your best bet is to just get some new springs.

So from what I can find on the net, my CR has 0.44kg ones in the front. Is this too heavy for a 80kg rider I guess I'd be around 85kg with all my gear on and I thought that all MX bikes are set up for 85kg riders.

[Rupe]

http://www.race-tech.com/HTML_FILES/FORKSPRINGS.HTML

There should be a bit where you click then put your weight etc in.

[cheese]

Ok well from what I can see, my springs are spot on for my weight and so must just be valving.

[barty5]

oil weight would make a difference.

[Paulus]

I didn't think oil weight made much difference in a bending shim style damper?

When I tried to make my CR250 more trailable (some years back now) the mechanic took some of the base shims off the compression valve in each fork. It was a bit of a backyard fix but it worked a treat. Probably best to consult a suspension professional.

[cheese]

Yeah Greg revalved it a few years ago. I think the problem is from when I twisted the front end at tarawera.

[slofox]

Having just done valves AND springs on the SVS, I can say it has made a massive difference to compliance over uneven surfaces (it also made a huge difference to my bank balance, but that's another story...)

[cheese]

For the price on some oil I'm just going to change the oil and clean them out. Probably got water in them or something.

[Danger]

Cheese this needs to be done properly. Two days ago you were telling me your forks were fine after you fixed the binding at the axle. Send them to me and I will sort them out for the price of oil and seals. I know I have some new updated settings that your going to love.

[cheese]

Yeah they were kind of feeling better, but I compaired them to someone elses bike and they were pretty hard.

Ah I'll drop them over Greg. Better to get them done properly.

[barty5]

Yeah they were kind of feeling better, but I compaired them to someone elses bike and they were pretty hard.

Ah I'll drop them over Greg. Better to get them done properly.

you already have the oil.

[baffler]

For bikes suspension to be plush you need to keep it up in the stroke. Biggest mistake most people do on suspension in to soften the compression clickers only. This does not allow the suspension to recover back to the soft part of the stroke. Soften the rebound as well, this will allow the suspension to recover back to the plush part without packing. You will be amazed at what your clickers can do if used properly.

[barty5]

For bikes suspension to be plush you need to keep it up in the stroke. Biggest mistake most people do on suspension in to soften the compression clickers only. This does not allow the suspension to recover back to the soft part of the stroke. Soften the rebound as well, this will allow the suspension to recover back to the plush part without packing. You will be amazed at what your clickers can do if used properly.

dosnt help with cheeses clicker they are already wound down full soft i was allways told should be at least 2-3 from full H or S or you should change springs.

[Danger]

dosnt help with cheeses clicker they are already wound down full soft i was allways told should be at least 2-3 from full H or S or you should change springs.

Well thats Cheeses mistake (thanks Barty for telling me cause Cheese couldn't tell me where his settings were) there is no way he should run the clickers full soft and as Baffler says the suspension will be too low in the stroke creating harshness it has nothing to do with the spring rate so I don't know who you and Cheese have been listening too? It has nothing to do with springs, his rated springs are perfect for him (although a stock spring can have a manufacturing variance of +/- 5% in rate). I always know when someone needs a re valve when a fork or shock come in full soft on clickers and the rider is trying to overcome stiff valving but that never works, it just makes things worse. Increasing compression will help the fork stay up in the stroke enabling it to absorb the bump, if it doesn't it needs valving changes. The shock setup is often over looked as well, the way many shocks are setup transfers even more load onto the front end making for a rough ride. The rear setup effects the front and the front can effect the rear.
Compression should be around 10-14 clicks out from full in for a gun like Cheese :ar15: and used for bottoming control as clickers only really effect low speed compression, valving effects high speed compression, springs effect static ride height and geometry.
Also rebound that is too heavy on the clicks will also make for a harsh ride because the fork can not recover for the next bump, again as Baffler has said (thanks for one of the more intelligent posts I've seen on this board for a long time you should contribute more).
Cheese has a setup sheet at his disposal but obviously has not used it?
When I asked him what settings were used after he called me late last year to say that someone said his forks were harsh (but he liked them for more than a year after a revalve but maybe he was just used to it???) he couldn't tell me so I said bring it around for me to look at but still no bike or forks have I seen? Then as late as last Sunday he told me his forks were fine and it was the result of a crash months earlier and twisted forks and axle binding (someone doesn't know how to install a front wheel correctly, Cheese was given an instruction sheet with the correct procedure but perhaps someone else has had the front wheel on and off?) that had given him problems (or someone else because he was still happy with the forks). Perhaps his forks also have been fitted incorrectly (I see this often) and a sheet was also provided to enable the correct fitting of the forks to prevent binding but who knows whats been done by Cheese and his mates? Also a sheet was provided to help with the care of the fork legs to prevent stiction but who knows if this has been followed? But I say regardless I have some better settings after a lot of testing on the CR and Showas, your service is due, even offer to do the job for free because he's such a tight ass and I like him (why I don't know? probably cause his dumb posts make me :rofl:) so let me at it (and perhaps have your friend who says the forks are harsh fill out a profile sheet so I can set them up for him :bash:) but I have to have the forks here instead of wasting time tooing and froing on the internet so what more can I do?? :brick:
Cheese should take up my offer before I loose my patience. I've just lost another half hour writing this when I should be doing invoicing and setup sheets for paying customers.
Its worse than trying to help him with his jetting. :doh:

[B0000M]

danger is so right!! :rofl:

[cheese]

LOL come on guys! group hug!

Yeah Greg I'll take you up on your offer, I've not responded yet because I've felt a bit guilty after you offered to do it for cost. That is very generous and I do appreciate it and all your help. Sorry my finances are tighter now. Having one income and a child in the house certainly sucks alot of your money up - well worth it though!

My Initial springs question was quicky answered with a bit of research and I found that they are correct for my weight (I couldn't remember if I'd asked you that before Greg). We were talking about it on Sunday and I thought that I'd ask on here about it. I like to ask any bike question on here first as I often get a correct answer quickly. I'm an electronics tech after all!!

After my spill at the T100, I took my wheel and forks off and reset it according to your instructions, but I think I had it very slightly set wrong as I set it up again a few weeks back and when I took the axle out it went "ping" I hadn't really noticed it was hard until I had a bike swap with someone out on a ride. It felt better (so I thought) but on sunday after the ride at riverhead (I hadn't been out on a lap when I saw you) and It was still feeling a bit harsh. To be honest it could be entirely my clickers set up as I'm unsure of what the rebound is set to. The Compression is set all the way down (which I now know is a no no). Let me check it tonight and I'll give you a call Greg.

You also forgot to mention in your post about me and my questions about brakes all the time.

p.s. my jetting seemed to be bang on on Sunday. Must just be set up best for the warmer conditions.

[Danger]

No worries. Call me next week 9-5.30 Or better yet just get the forks to me.

I just pulled a set of Showas off a 07 KXF250. This bike tends to sit around a bit (sound familiar) and the kashima coated cartridge rods are so sticky from a film build up that I see in similar cases that the rods which are meant to return to full length (or just about) only return half way, the cartridge seals are fine and not leaking (which is another cause of this symptom). This film needs to be removed to get the fork working smoothly again. Just brought it up cause its in front of me and is something else to consider which needs addressing during a service.

[cheese]

LOL yes I've only done about 30 hours on my bike since Jack was born.....

I'll pull the forks off and drop them over in the weekend or early next week.