Learners, what to get?

[karottop]

hi people!
brand new to the forums and hoping to get my learners in the next month. i've been looking on trademe and have been inundated with a bigger decision than I really want to make on my own.
My question is, what should I look for in a bike, and what brands should I steer clear of? I'm budgeting about $4500 max for the bike.
what would you guys recomend?

[EJK]

Steer clear of Chinese brands. Thats what I got when I asked the same question when I first joined.

With that price, how about a brand new Yamaha Scorpio? You can expect some change too.

[carlosliu]

With that exact amount of money, I got a Honda VTR250 from trademe. Looks good, easy to drive. Perfect learner's bike.

[Badjelly]

With that price, how about a brand new Yamaha Scorpio? You can expect some change too.


With that exact amount of money, I got a Honda VTR250 from trademe. Looks good, easy to drive. Perfect learner's bike.

Both very good suggestions. The Scorpio is a great city run-about, with enough grunt for an occasional excursion onto the highway. The VTR250 is a step above the Scorpio in terms of power, making it more capable and relaxed at highway speeds. I chose the Scorpio because I liked the idea of having a brand new motor vehicle--the first I've ever had and probably the last. I haven't regretted it.

Don't forget to budget at least $600 for helmet and protective gear.

[CRF119]

I have found my 250 bandit to be a nice bike over all and is a lil more comfy then the sports bike over long distances and being 4 cylinder has a gud amount of power for a 250.

In my oppinion the CBR250RR would be the best learner bike but depends how you want to ride to.

[karottop]

It'll see quite a bit of driving between palmy and taupo (about 3 hours) so I want something that will be able to handle longish trips. looking maybe cbr250 or fzr250 or something similar

[NOMIS]

It'll see quite a bit of driving between palmy and taupo (about 3 hours) so I want something that will be able to handle longish trips. looking maybe cbr250 or fzr250 or something similar

Look for a hornet nice around town and do over 100k no worries. mines for sale but going for a bit more than what you want to spend. newer than a cbr as well and pretty much same motor. inl4 bike's are revvy but will do 120k no worries even in strong head on winds ect, get you around traffic no worries during overtaking aswell

[Badjelly]

It'll see quite a bit of driving between palmy and taupo (about 3 hours) so I want something that will be able to handle longish trips. looking maybe cbr250 or fzr250 or something similar

Now you tell us!

To my mind the prices fetched by one-decade-old sporty 250s are bloody ridiculous, but maybe that's just me being a grumpy old man.

[samgab]

With that exact amount of money, I got a Honda VTR250 from trademe. Looks good, easy to drive. Perfect learner's bike.

Another vote for the Honda VTR250. It really is the perfect learner bike.
Economical, well built, easy to ride, fun, forgiving, torquey...

I'm really enjoying my one.

And it's within your price range.

[karottop]

so when it comes to passing lines of cars on short straits is a twin or an i4 going to be best?

a twin would be better for the desert road cause of better torque wouldn't it? better pull out of corners...

[EJK]

so when it comes to passing lines of cars on short straits is a twin or an i4 going to be best?

a twin would be better for the desert road cause of better torque wouldn't it? better pull out of corners...

Theres no way that a V-Twin (250) can overtake better than the inline 4s.

[karottop]

Theres no way that a V-Twin (250) can overtake better than the inline 4s.

that's what I was thinking. so any of the honda, yamaha, kawasaki or suzuki i4s would be fine? nothing I need to steer clear of? I heard the fzr gearboxes were a bit of a pain

[EJK]

that's what I was thinking. so any of the honda, yamaha, kawasaki or suzuki i4s would be fine? nothing I need to steer clear of? I heard the fzr gearboxes were a bit of a pain

Thats why many go for the CBRs or the ZXRs. Those two are the top of the line as far as I know. Many here on KB can tell you more about those two (CBR250R or RR and the ZXR250).

Never rode them but people say they fly for a 250.

[samgab]

Thats why many go for the CBRs or the ZXRs. Those two are the top of the line as far as I know. Many here on KB can tell you more about those two (CBR250R or RR and the ZXR250).

Never rode them but people say they fly for a 250.

I test rode hornets and CBR250RR's. They are both very fast when the revs get up there. The CBR redlines at nearly 19,000 rpm, and when the revs get up high it's awesome.
It's a lot to handle for a learner...

[short-circuit]

The power is generally at the top end with the IL4s which means chopping up and down gears and reving the shite out of it. For my money torque is more important both for overtaking and riding enjoyment which is why I'd go with the VTR. Do yourself the service of test riding one before writing it off

[fatzx10r]

zx10r is a good learners bike

[Badjelly]

So when it comes to passing lines of cars on short straits is a twin or an i4 going to be best?

What EJK said.

However, as a learner, you might consider exercising a little caution about passing lines of cars on short straits (or straights).

[NOMIS]

The power is generally at the top end with the IL4s which means chopping up and down gears and reving the shite out of it. For my money torque is more important both for overtaking and riding enjoyment which is why I'd go with the VTR. Do yourself the service of test riding one before writing it off

dude sorry.. but a vtr on a hill wont hold 100 without kicking down a gear. my hornet will sit in 6th on a fairly decentish hill at 100k no probem and if needed can still kick back 2 gears for a quick overtake.. Im surprised no other hornet riders have made any comments regarding this yet.

End of the day hornets not a 15 year + old give the older inline 4's a good run for there money ect look good and all the rest yadayadayada and alot that within his price range. maybe a lil scatched here and there for $4500 but hey stil a damn good bike none the less

[samgab]

Well, my VTR easily cruises along at 100 in 5th up any hill I've encountered.
Maybe if I was a fatty I might need to downshift, I dunno. ;)

[mister.koz]

so when it comes to passing lines of cars on short straits is a twin or an i4 going to be best?

a twin would be better for the desert road cause of better torque wouldn't it? better pull out of corners...

My zxr250a (1989) was quite punchy and could cane it past "lines of cars" with a bit of effort but it was doable.

my 2c
My advice is to go for the VTR250, it will be way more comfortable for learning and riding at reasonable speeds, the IL4's that have power are jumpy and revy which makes them harder to control at low speeds and therefore harder to learn on, you wont get as much enjoyment out of an IL4 until you are experienced enough to take advantage of how they operate.

Don't bother starting out at 120km or you will get yourself into allot of trouble. Start slow and work your way up, the VTR will be fast enough to scare you but manageable at the same time and they do move really nicely on the open road i am told.

[mister.koz]

Oh and the hornets a bloody nice too :D

[Badjelly]

dude sorry.. but a vtr on a hill wont hold 100 without kicking down a gear...

...which is why they have a gear lever. Problem solved.

[short-circuit]

...which is why they have a gear lever. Problem solved.

Precisely - and an IL4 won't pull away in 5th after going round a 25kph corner.

[mister.koz]

Precisely - and an IL4 won't pull away in 5th after going round a 25kph corner.

My 600 wont climb quickly in 5th @ 25km/h ...

Gears are good.

[NighthawkNZ]

The VTR 250 , its not the fastest but will be fast enough to get you a speeding ticket on the open road.

The VTR is a very forgiving bike and is a great bike to learn on... and can still be fun... Xaria has done many tours (with gear) on hers and still luvs it.

[YAMASAKI]

Buy a VTR, ride it for a couple of months, buy an IL4 when you get bored

[Ixion]

so when it comes to passing lines of cars on short straits is a twin or an i4 going to be best?

a twin would be better for the desert road cause of better torque wouldn't it? better pull out of corners...

Oh good. Commission. Just what I need for those Xmas bills. Hurry up and start overtaking those cars please, the bank gets impatient.

Remember - for all squidly occasions , the perfect gift is Gene-O-Kleen : "Evolution you can see. Keeping the gene pool clean since 1903".

[mister.koz]

Oh good. Commission. Just what I need for those Xmas bills. Hurry up and start overtaking those cars please, the bank gets impatient.

Remember - for all squidly occasions , the perfect gift is Gene-O-Kleen : "Evolution you can see. Keeping the gene pool clean since 1903".

"Cynical old crackpot" :lol:

[NOMIS]

Precisely - and an IL4 won't pull away in 5th after going round a 25kph corner.
righhhhttt.. and how fast are you going around this 25er?

[NOMIS]

Just FYI for the ones who dont know

VTR - 24.0 NM touque
32.0 Hp
140 kg dry

Hornet - 24.5 NM
40.5 Hp
151 kg dry

Hornet has a 16L fuel tanks vs a 13L on the VTR comes with fuel gauge on all hornets ( i think ) vtr's some do some dont
also a 5sp on the vtr and a 6 speed on the hornet ( hornet needs 6th where as a vtr doesn't )

don't get me wrong I like the vtr's alot but theres some fact's that may help out on making a decision

Also give or take + 3hp on the hornet between 1996 - 2002 ive seen diff specs for diff years and talked to some honda bike mech in Japan on myspace ( some have bigger carbs some don't ) not that he can be classed as a reliable source of information.

[short-circuit]

righhhhttt.. and how fast are you going around this 25er?

Fast as the corner will allow :whistle:

But really I can't see much point in trying to establish which is the superior bike in terms of performance - no one suggested the Hornet is not a great 250cc road bike.

I am merely making the point (from experience) that the VTR was the perfect Learner and performancewise was not too shabby. As for the merits of V twin vs Inline 4 that depends on the type of riding you do, what you like in a bike etc.

[Neon]

Insert default answer here ->

You won't make a decision by listening to the random biases of the KB community. Go and ride the damn things and decide for yourself! I saved for a year to get a VTR250, I was totally sold. Then once I actually rode a few different bikes I ended up with something I had never considered.

Pretty much any of the 250s mentioned will do the job. And to be honest it sounds like comfort is going to be the deciding factor for you rather than power, so ride ride ride those 250s until you are sure!

[chester]

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=1860624

[Leyton]

hi people!
I'm budgeting about $4500 max for the bike.

You would get a good Hyosung GT250R for that with low KM's :) Near new.

Sure they dont sound great and come with not the best tyres and wooden brakes but at $4500 you are getting one hell of a bike. You are getting a full sized frame, heavyer bike that gives you a closer feel to a larger bike then the smaller 250 sports bikes provide like the Ninja's. The Ninja's are quicker bikes though and have a slightly better build quility.

The Hyosung is a great learner bike, It has a tourqey V-Twin that is very forgiving. It is also very easy on the gas bill. It has a 17L Tank that will get you 400km before it requires filling again :)

My 2-Cents.

Best advice would be to test ride as many bikes and find the one that feels comfortable. For me it was the Hyosung. I acually bought mine without testing.. bit of a hipicrit there but I had a good idea of what would work for me and I am very happy with my bike :) Althought I want MORE GRUNT UG UG UG UG UG UG UG UG UG

Happy hunting.

[Quailboy]

For what its worth, I would go with a l4 250cc.

I started on a cbr250rr and it was just fine. Bit hard to use in traffic as the little 250 il4 has no torque so I have to keep revs up, otherwise they are a bit snappy and bog down heaps. But then they have the 19000rpm redline for when you don't have much space to finish your pass. I've had mine up to 190kph too.

I just think, the harder your first bike is, the easier your second will be to go along with the bigger engine so maybe (generalising) you will be a better rider for it.

[Dean]

what about those gsx250 invaders the newish models.i like it cause its frame is the size if a 600 therefore giving that big bike feel,looks quite nice.i dont know about the power on the invaders but ive ridden with one on a trip and he said there virtually the same performance as a hyosung gtr250 infact the gsx are faster.and last but not least on the gsx you dont get pushed around as much in the heavy winds.

[Leyton]

For what its worth, I would go with a l4 250cc.

I started on a cbr250rr and it was just fine. Bit hard to use in traffic as the little 250 il4 has no torque so I have to keep revs up, otherwise they are a bit snappy and bog down heaps. But then they have the 19000rpm redline for when you don't have much space to finish your pass. I've had mine up to 190kph too.

I just think, the harder your first bike is, the easier your second will be to go along with the bigger engine so maybe (generalising) you will be a better rider for it.

Yeah I agree fully on the harder bike part :) However, it has to be enjoyable. I do not know really what its like to have a bike that is hard to mechanicly operate as I been muckin around since I was 6 on bikes :) I am new to road biking so my main hurdle was getting used to handling a bike on the road so I choose a bigger frame to challange me and it has turned out the right choice for me.

Test ride if you can! :)

Inline 4's sound better :P, My V-Twin you cant hear it work until you utilize 3/4 twist :)

[Leyton]

what about those gsx250 invaders the newish models.i like it cause its frame is the size if a 600 therefore giving that big bike feel,looks quite nice.i dont know about the power on the invaders but ive ridden with one on a trip and he said there virtually the same performance as a hyosung gtr250 infact the gsx are faster.and last but not least on the gsx you dont get pushed around as much in the heavy winds.


Yeah that sounds like an excallent bike! Best of both worlds.

[YAMASAKI]

what about those gsx250 invaders the newish models.i like it cause its frame is the size if a 600 therefore giving that big bike feel,looks quite nice.i dont know about the power on the invaders but ive ridden with one on a trip and he said there virtually the same performance as a hyosung gtr250 infact the gsx are faster.and last but not least on the gsx you dont get pushed around as much in the heavy winds.

Lets face it, any 250cc IL4 or V-twin is going to be a big step up from the old GN250 (it was originally brought out in the early 80's after all). You are never going to get a clear answer asking 'what bike do I get?' on a forum. Everybody has person preferences (for me if I was buying a 250 again I'd be looking at a ZXR250 or CBR250rr). You've had some good suggestions in this thread, Go out, test bikes, and let us know your thoughts... and have fun doing so :D

[CB ARGH]

that's what I was thinking. so any of the honda, yamaha, kawasaki or suzuki i4s would be fine? nothing I need to steer clear of? I heard the fzr gearboxes were a bit of a pain

I myself own a CBR250RR. Very nice machine indeed. Best thing about it is at low RPM's there isn't much power, meaning you can pootle around town quite easily, and when the power is needed, just flick it down a gear and give it shit. :whistle:

As for a first bike... well... the debate could go on and on. To be honest, I would say it is a learner friendly bike. It just depends on how much throttle you give it... also having no flywheel learning to take off would be a bit harder too (although you can still move off with just the clutch and no throttle).

The CBR, MC22 model, is a very well designed bike. Twin brakes on the front, decent-ish suspension (mine's a bit bad atm - needs adjusting to my weight), and when you get more confident you have a perfect bike to hoon around on for the two years of getting your licence.

Now, the FZR. I must say, is shit. My father owns one of these (89 model - 3LN). Everything is just designed weirdly, such as you needing to take off the fairings to drain the oil, even worse you have to remove the exhaust system to change the oil filter. The rear storage seat is a bad setup... the list goes on (many lovely words have been screamed in the garage since he's had this bike).

Although, if you are a taller person, this would be a lot more comfortable than the CBR.

Wasn't meaning to write a novel. :eek5:

[YAMASAKI]

Now, the FZR. I must say, is shit. My father owns one of these (89 model - 3LN). Everything is just designed weirdly, such as you needing to take off the fairings to drain the oil, even worse you have to remove the exhaust system to change the oil filter. The rear storage seat is a bad setup... the list goes on (many lovely words have been screamed in the garage since he's had this bike).

Although, if you are a taller person, this would be a lot more comfortable than the CBR.



yeah the FZR was My first bike and I loved it (i had the earlier 2KR frame)... to ride anyway. I agree that having to remove the exhaust (not hard) was a pain in the arse as was the seat on mine... it was boney as hell on long trips :pinch:.

[prettybillie]

I learned on a Kawasaki GPX - awesome bike!!!!! Highly recommended!

[Dean]

Lets face it, any 250cc IL4 or V-twin is going to be a big step up from the old GN250 (it was originally brought out in the early 80's after all). You are never going to get a clear answer asking 'what bike do I get?' on a forum. Everybody has person preferences (for me if I was buying a 250 again I'd be looking at a ZXR250 or CBR250rr). You've had some good suggestions in this thread, Go out, test bikes, and let us know your thoughts... and have fun doing so :D

hi yamasaki,umm i wasnt asking about what bike should i get.i thought maybe the guy whos posted this thread might want a gsx250 its a twin cylinder but economical.yano that the inline 4s cost about 20bucks for only 170ks thats alot of money to pay on long rides.but funny that im actually looking around on trademe and the gsx250 im going to buy i cant get to test ride as the seller lives in wellington.im just gonna pick it up with cash.if i do

[Quailboy]

I get about 4L/100km out of mine.

Thats less than $14 every 200km.

[Dean]

I get about 4L/100km out of mine.

Thats less than $14 every 200km.

but il4 cost so much for maintenance.and fuel for most il4s.i once wanted to get an il4 because the power was appealing to me (it was the kawasaki ballius 250 same engine as zxr)but then i thought why because they will just keep on picking at my wallet.and most run the risk of breaking down because the cbrs are thrashed by most owners (i mean lets face it you dont buy a cbr because of its safe or what ever)cbrs are bought to be thrasehed and redlined.the cbrs are all 11 years old or older so most are thrashed by previous owners.

[YAMASAKI]

hi yamasaki,umm i wasnt asking about what bike should i get.i thought maybe the guy whos posted this thread might want a gsx250 its a twin cylinder but economical.yano that the inline 4s cost about 20bucks for only 170ks thats alot of money to pay on long rides.but funny that im actually looking around on trademe and the gsx250 im going to buy i cant get to test ride as the seller lives in wellington.im just gonna pick it up with cash.if i do

Sorry, my previous post should have been in three sentences and I probably shoudn't have quoted you. Only the first bit was meant for you :bleh: just kidding, But i do hate GN's. I didn't intend you (young biker) to go out and buy a new bike.

My point is that everybody has personal preferences. Some like Sports bikes and others like cruisers and the only way you can find out whether a bike suits you or not is by going out and riding it.

[matoc]

but il4 cost so much for maintenance.and fuel for most il4s.

I've done about 6000kms on my CBR over the past 3 months. The only maintenance it has needed has been an oil/filter change and new friction plates and springs as my clutch was slipping. $200 in total, $140 of which was the clutch stuff and won't need attention for a while. I'm also up for a new chain soon.

Fuel? I get 260km from a full 13L tank of mostly twisties. 20km/L is damn good considering the tacho is above 12000rpm almost permanently. Haven't tested what I'd get with commuting, but when Uni starts up again I'll see. I might even get near 300km a tank!


and most run the risk of breaking down because the cbrs are thrashed by most owners


As for breaking down, test the bike before you buy it or take it into a mechanic and have it checked over. Mine has been a joy to ride since day one. I'm only craving power now, after having a few decent rides on a mate's r6.

Basically, apart from 6000km services and regular oil changes there isn't much to do.

One other thing. Try to do as much of the maintenance yourself as possible, from basic chain tensioning/lubing to replacing clutch plates, oil filters, sprockets and chains. You'll get to know your bike better and save moolah along the way. Just don't fuck up and end up with oil pissing onto your rear tyre.

Oh and the CBR is my second bike, I started on a little RGV150. Choose the bike you feel most comfortable on and have it checked out, regardless of mileage/age/cylinders/brand. My vote goes to the CBR anyway.