Yeah, I know its a car show but

[gav]

did anyone watch the AA Torque Show last night? Testing the new Falcon XR6 Turbo (cor!) Typhoon. Aaron Slight fanding it around a race track, was it Taupo?
Pretty cool, he's sure laid back, sliding this thing around while talking to the camera. Looked a pretty good show, not sure what was up with the old guy and his shirt, looked like it had about 100 or so different badges all over it. :confused:

[Cajun]

did anyone watch the AA Torque Show last night? Testing the new Falcon XR6 Turbo (cor!) Typhoon. Aaron Slight fanding it around a race track, was it Taupo?
Pretty cool, he's sure laid back, sliding this thing around while talking to the camera. Looked a pretty good show, not sure what was up with the old guy and his shirt, looked like it had about 100 or so different badges all over it. :confused:

yes gav it was taupo race way, i watched a bit of it, its a pity we don't hear anything about slight any more )c:<
but them the way it goes

looks okay, apart from that damn presenter who is a tosspot

[James Deuce]

did anyone watch the AA Torque Show last night? Testing the new Falcon XR6 Turbo (cor!) Typhoon. Aaron Slight fanding it around a race track, was it Taupo?
Pretty cool, he's sure laid back, sliding this thing around while talking to the camera.

Which just goes to show how slow a car is for a person whose brain is calibrated by bike racing.

[Hitcher]

Which just goes to show how slow a car is for a person whose brain is calibrated by bike racing.
Indeed. I've seen a few car vs bike comparisons where Aaron Slight was the "rider of choice" for people keen to see curry fed to a motorcycle. Needless to say, no contest.

[ManDownUnder]

Indeed. I've seen a few car vs bike comparisons where Aaron Slight was the "rider of choice" for people keen to see curry fed to a motorcycle. Needless to say, no contest.

Along the "no contest" lines - I was watching Top Gear the other night and they mentioned some Ferrari spitting out 118 horses per litre... "an astonishing amount".

Lemme see... my bike spat out 110bph on the dyno.... 900 ccs

so 110*(100/90) equals (drum roll please)...

122.2!

WOW an AMASING amount! An from a bike 11 years old. How does Suzuki do it - it must be one of the most powerful vehicles on earth!... oh no... wait... I read about a R1 spitting out 160 to 170 bhp (ok to be fair it'd been tricked up by a specialist with no end of money in sight...)

I always love the bike v car comparisons though.

Here endeth the lecture
MDU

[James Deuce]

You have a point MDU, and I love to trot out to car enthusiasts, "yes 100bhp/litre is a lot, but the RGV250 trotted out 200bhp/litre 14 years ago."


Always ends the conversation with the car guy looking a little ill.

[Motu]

A Formula 1 car doesn't do too bad really....

[ManDownUnder]

A Formula 1 car doesn't do too bad really....

You're right... and credit where it's due...

(from http://www.answers.com/topic/formula-one)

"Modern F1 cars are single-seat, open cockpit, open wheel racers. They must be constructed by the racing teams themselves and are required to be powered by 3.0-litre, ten-cylinder naturally aspirated engines. Estimates put the best engines at or about 900 BHP at 19,000 RPM"

300 bph/litre?!?!?!

YEE HAA!!!!!!

[Drunken Monkey]

uh oh, I smell another cars vs bikes thread again...

ya ya ya power to weight...

blah blah blah mehcanical grip...

here endeth the lesson...

[flyin]

bike motors are made to go harder and fall apart after a few kms...

ive got a ZZR250 that puts out (claimed standard) 40hp (plus its got an exhaust and hi flow air filter.....)
40 x 4 = 160hp per L!!!!

my 1.3L rwd corolla puttin out a whopping 100hp will keep doing so for a good 200 000kms before it needs another rebuild!!

[ktulu]

wooooooooooo go the RGV

[Motu]

You're right... and credit where it's due...

(from http://www.answers.com/topic/formula-one)

"Modern F1 cars are single-seat, open cockpit, open wheel racers. They must be constructed by the racing teams themselves and are required to be powered by 3.0-litre, ten-cylinder naturally aspirated engines. Estimates put the best engines at or about 900 BHP at 19,000 RPM"

300 bph/litre?!?!?!

YEE HAA!!!!!!

Formula 1 is the pinacle of motor sport,even though the technology excedes any other motorsport series they are heavily restricted to keep the speed down - I wonder what they could do if they really tried?

[ManDownUnder]

Formula 1 is the pinacle of motor sport,even though the technology excedes any other motorsport series they are heavily restricted to keep the speed down - I wonder what they could do if they really tried?

I agree, I saw mention (on that page I think) of the spuercharged cars putting out 1000bph in the '80s. I don;t know what capacity they qwere talking about though.

Kinda interesting to look at the whole output/capacity thing though. I remember seeing a glowplug engine spinning at some obscene rate putting out 1bhp from something like 10ccs? I'll try to find it.

Bloody amasing though
MDU

[James Deuce]

uh oh, I smell another cars vs bikes thread again...

ya ya ya power to weight...

blah blah blah mehcanical grip...

here endeth the lesson...
No it doesn't actually.

Performance bikes nicely went out and proved that a Valkyrie can outbrake a sporty car with ABS, traction control, and Yaw control IN THE WET. That was a Valkyrie without ABS too. It was varying wet conditions too, meaning not a consistent level of grip.

Cycle World also went out and proved that the onlt significant grip deficit between a car and a bike is braking up to the apex and at the apex. Everywhere else the bike could accelerate and deccelerate harder and/or faster than the cars they were testing against.

[jrandom]

Cycle World also went out and proved that the onlt significant grip deficit between a car and a bike is braking up to the apex and at the apex. Everywhere else the bike could accelerate and deccelerate harder and/or faster than the cars they were testing against.

But what about maximum lateral acceleration? I would have expected that that would be where bikes fall down (literally...) against cars.

Jeez, this is so old, we must have done this at least twice before. Anyone have enough energy to do a search and link back to a relevant thread?

[James Deuce]

But what about maximum lateral acceleration? I would have expected that that would be where bikes fall down (literally...) against cars.

Jeez, this is so old, we must have done this at least twice before. Anyone have enough energy to do a search and link back to a relevant thread?

Surprisingly lateral grip was higher than straightline acceleration and deceleration. The practical straightline acceleration for a shortwheelbase sportbike usually topped out at 1G, whilst wheelying and wheelspinning at the same time. Braking was around the same doing a rolling stoppy. The point is that the bike is accelerating to much higher speeds much more quickly than anything short of winged single seater car. and that is where the major advantage in cars over bikes is - aerodynamics. F1 cars generate more braking force by lifting off the gas than a MOTOGP bike can at max braking.

[jrandom]

Surprisingly lateral grip was higher than straightline acceleration and deceleration.

Really? So the bike could go around corners faster than the car could before anything started to step out? Interesting.

I think the general conclusion should be that the physical limitations of two wheels are lower than four wheels (ref, as usual, the fasterer-ness of F1 cars over the GP bikes), but that the cheapness and accessibility of motorcycles on the road means that almost *any* car on the road will be spanked by a bike; to go out and buy a car that could contend with a modern Japanese superbike, you would have to spend at least ten times as much.

So, then, the ultimate physical limitations being lower does not imply that bikes aren't better than cars. It just means that for no more than the cost of a new Toyota Corolla, you can buy something that's not orders of magnitude away from a GP machine in performance, but will still take you to work every morning.

Try doing THAT on four wheels.

[ManDownUnder]

Really? So the bike could go around corners faster than the car could before anything started to step out? Interesting.

I think the general conclusion should be that the physical limitations of two wheels are lower than four wheels (ref, as usual, the fasterer-ness of F1 cars over the GP bikes), but that the cheapness and accessibility of motorcycles on the road means that almost *any* car on the road will be spanked by a bike; to go out and buy a car that could contend with a modern Japanese superbike, you would have to spend at least ten times as much.

So, then, the ultimate physical limitations being lower does not imply that bikes aren't better than cars. It just means that for no more than the cost of a new Toyota Corolla, you can buy something that's not orders of magnitude away from a GP machine in performance, but will still take you to work every morning.

Try doing THAT on four wheels.

AMEN BROTHER!

[Motu]

Yep,you got it jrandom.Generaly bikes out perform cars,even performance cars,but then most performance cars have a bit of luxury to go with the price,there are few stark spartan cars.But when the cars get serious (F1,WRC,Top Fuel drag,LSR etc) it's game over for the bikes.

[flyin]

[QUOTE] Kinda interesting to look at the whole output/capacity thing though. I remember seeing a glowplug engine spinning at some obscene rate putting out 1bhp from something like 10ccs? I'll try to find it.[QUOTE]

yeah model planes/cars etc have some cool little motors.
an average .40cu (6cc) glow pug motor running on methanol/castor oil/nitromethane puts out around 1hp

with the high power pylon racing motors theres all sorts of tuned pipes etc theres crazy power to be made, more than a hp per 4cc!!
well they move a fairly solid model(plane) round the pylons at over 300kmph!!

the smaller you go th higher th revs too. this little .010 motor (around a 1/4cc) i have pulls rediculous revs, upwards of 30 000......... (runnin it with 30% nitro :2thumbsup

[ManDownUnder]

Check this out - some of the engines on here...

http://www.alansmodels.com/engines/car_engine.htm

.21 cubic inch (that's 3.44 cc's......) spitting out 1.9bph!

O - I see it takes 40,000rpm to do it (or at least achieves that output at some point along the way to 40k)... but for the sake of conversation... that's

... errrr.... aarrrrmmmm....

552.12 bhp per litre?!?

Ladies and laddies - we've got a way to go before we get there. Yes I know it's all hypothetical and no really applicable... but it's fun to look at, even only for a while...

MDU!

[vifferman]

You have a point MDU, and I love to trot out to car enthusiasts, "yes 100bhp/litre is a lot, but the RGV250 trotted out 200bhp/litre 14 years ago."
I read some time ago that the record for power/litre for a normally-aspirated engine (not counting those glowplug engines someone else mentioned, if those figures are in fact correct) is still held by a 1960-summat Honda 50 race bike, at 17hp.

Modern F1 cars are single-seat, open cockpit, open wheel racers. They must be constructed by the racing teams themselves and are required to be powered by 3.0-litre, ten-cylinder naturally aspirated engines.
Not for long.
They "go too fast" despite the latest regulations to slow them down (which made no difference - the lap times for testing were quicker), so soon (next year?) they'll be 2.4-litre V8s.

By the way - was the show any good? I wanted to watch it, but didn't.

[Motu]

There used to be a model aircraft wankel motor - do you model guys know if they still make them? Honda 50?? you can still buy one...brand new.Ash King used to ride one of these.

[flyin]

yep you can still get workin model wankel motors! check out http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXBY72&P=0
what are you hoping to do with it? nifty fifty rotor conversion?!?!
brap brap brap