POS cb125 bucket [Archive] - Kiwi Biker forums

wbks

29th January 2009, 15:24

New fully charged battery, gets spark as it turns over. Trying to push start it but it just goes "put put puuuuut puuuuurmmm" and doesn't make any effort to take off. Tryed starting it in first and second but same thing. What are the things I could be doing wrong? The little idle screw thing isn't set but I can't tell how to set it untill the fucking thing is running. Full choke,half choke, no choke, works better on full choke but still, nothing. What's wrong with it? Was running before I put the new battery in but like I said it's getting a spark. This thing is pissin me off, blows coil-new coil, plug, battery and now it wont run. someone must have some suggestions? its getting vewey vewey agrivating trying for an hour at a time on seven different days coming back dripping in sweat from pushing this pig up and down the road jumping up and down on it but still no life

koba

29th January 2009, 18:00

6 or 12 volt....

Or a mix of both...

Get a manual and read it, it will tell you all you need to know.

speedpro

29th January 2009, 18:29

I love it. The bike is a single cylinder 4-stroke with two valves and points ignition , , , , , and you can't get it to fire :whistle:

Even just pouring some gas down the plug hole, screwing the plug in and connecting you should get something if the ignition is firing when you push it. There is some compression? You should be able to connect a timing light, kick it over or just spin the back wheel by hand(with the plug out but in the cap and next to the motor) and check that the timing is in the ballpark. There really isn't much to it. Compression, fuel, spark. You need all three.

wbks

29th January 2009, 19:08

I love it. The bike is a single cylinder 4-stroke with two valves and points ignition , , , , , and you can't get it to fire :whistle: Shuuuutup ow... I got it going in 3 pushes the first time it had ran in a year of sitting. Now-nothing:sleep:

Even just pouring some gas down the plug hole, screwing the plug in and connecting you should get something if the ignition is firing when you push it. There is some compression? You should be able to connect a timing light, kick it over or just spin the back wheel by hand(with the plug out but in the cap and next to the motor) and check that the timing is in the ballpark. There really isn't much to it. Compression, fuel, spark. You need all three.Compression is fine, its only a couple hours off a rebuild. Heres the thing - Sometimes it sounds like its about to start and turns over but never actually takes off, other times absolutely nothing. And no, there shouldn't really be much to starting it which is what pisses me off. It's had the idle screw played with (not by me) while it was off and I guess that could be it, you think? Either that or the battery wasnt charged enough but I'm sure it was.

Just cut out about 30cm of excess wire and dodgy connections last weekend so I'll bet its a loose connection, but I'll check if it's actually sparking with the plug out now that its dark and I can see

TZ350

29th January 2009, 19:19

Charge the battery.

Battery not fully charged? That makes sense! New 12V coil, New battery but been sitting around for a while. 12Volts on the bench but possibly only 8Volts at 1 Amp left in the battery when the current tries flowing through the coil (usually 12v 2A, but is possably less from your battery if its low).

Not enough flux builds up and when the points open and the field collapses, a weak spark results, and any throttle above idle allows enough compression pressure to quench the spark at the plug gap.

Idles and possibly even runs but any load blows the spark out! possible?? you see this with low battery's at every bucket meeting.

Charge the battery.

Another issue you could have is with the condensor.

Kick the bike over and look at the colour of the spark, phat deep blue = OK, skinny blue/yellow = weak, yellow = piss weak and won't run anything.

SHELRACING

29th January 2009, 19:22

Shuuuutup ow... I got it going in 3 pushes the first time it had ran in a year of sitting. Now-nothing:sleep:

Compression is fine, its only a couple hours off a rebuild. Heres the thing - Sometimes it sounds like its about to start and turns over but never actually takes off, other times absolutely nothing. And no, there shouldn't really be much to starting it which is what pisses me off. It's had the idle screw played with (not by me) while it was off and I guess that could be it, you think? Either that or the battery wasnt charged enough but I'm sure it was

Is it a twin or single... Whole load of could be's

If you stripped it down did you get your valve timing correct. The twins can be a pain in the ass.

Is it Total loss or the original ignition system. Old hondas ran 6 volt systems. Useless... Convert to a simple 12 volt total loss system (make sure your coil and battery are 12v).

Make sure the battery is Fully charged. Especially on a total loss system. A slight drop in battery voltage and you ain't goin anywhere. Get youself a volt meter. If the battery is old it can shown 12volts, but drop to 10 -11v when plugged into the bike, which is not enough for good ignition

Get some easy start from supercheap and give it a squirt

Ixion

29th January 2009, 19:24

wbks

29th January 2009, 20:22

Doe sit not have a kickstarter?

As the rapid gentleman noted , they are hardly complex engines.

Assuming compression, and that you have actually seen it run properly(and thus the engine is assembled more or less correctly), and the carb not monstrously deranged, it must start. If it has a spark. You have not timed it on the exhaust stroke? I don't think that is possible on those motors, but it's been many many years since I woned one.

They should start immediately, just flicking the kickstarter with your hand.

What does the plug look like? Dry? Fouled?

EDIT: They will start without a battery, with a good push, but run erratically. Unless you put a big capacitor in the circuit.It's total loss, won't run. It sounds like not enough gas is getting through but it has to run on full choke or else the wheel stays locked up and wont turn over. I haven't touched the timing since I had it last running and it ran great. The battery is a 6 volt through a 6 volt coil, and has about 4 hours charging on it. I'm not sure how long they need to charge for but if the amount of battery charge has as much of an impact as shellracing said, it might just not have a strong enough spark. I accidentally grabbed the plug as it clicked over and it gave me a strong pulse through both arms so I would argue it's charged haha. I'll leave it over night which will be all the possible charging it can take but if it doesn't go then I have no idea what's wrong with it. It still feels like it's just not getting enough spark, which is something I cant fix because I haven't touched anything on it since last time...

I was under the impression that the amount of power in the batt didn't have any affect untill it is near flat, I mean how much spark power do you need?

Plug was dark but now looks fine, kickstarter removed. I guess I'm just trying too hard if it takes a long time to charge the battery. How long does it take?

Ixion

29th January 2009, 20:32

Um, I know this is a REALLY REALLY REALLY silly thing to say, but - it's not out of fuel is it?

wbks

29th January 2009, 20:35

Lol, nah, I did change the way the fuel line was so that was the first thing I said but every couple push's I check the float bowl and every time it's as full as ever, so it's getting to the carb fine

I guess the only thing is spark. I still think that 4 hours charging a little 6 volt should be enough though, but probably is what's stopping it so maybe not

koba

29th January 2009, 20:38

Um, I know this is a REALLY REALLY REALLY silly thing to say, but - it's not out of fuel is it?

It is never a silly thing to say!

Also is it GETTING what fuel is in the tank (if there is any)

Refer to speedpros advice above, whack some fuel down the plughole and try again, if it splutters it aint getting fuel.

A recent engine rebuild is a good reason to look at everything, as things do go wrong and the first kays on a fresh engine are delicate ones.

wbks

29th January 2009, 20:44

It's not exactly fresh, it had a race day on it already so it should be fine. Won't putting fuel into the cylinder be pushed out the exhaust by the time it starts turning over? If it was kickstart it could be noticeable but I'm pushing it up and down the driveway so it could be hard to tell if it turns over once or not. When it was running it would still do what it is now, only eventually it would just sort of start firing after a second of bump starting but now nothing. Still probably weak spark.

koba

29th January 2009, 20:57

It's not exactly fresh, it had a race day on it already so it should be fine. Won't putting fuel into the cylinder be pushed out the exhaust by the time it starts turning over?

No it should work. Alternativley you could dip the plug in fuel (not if it is glowing hot of course!)

You should be able to tell if it starts to pick up as it will cough and splutter.

The idea is to completly eliminate two of the three possible problems beyond a doubt so you don't piss about looking at the wrong bit.

wbks

29th January 2009, 21:00

Dipped the plug in gas and it tuned over a little better ( I mean the piston revolved, it didn't sound like it was firing ) but that may have just been me, I was trying to push it a lot faster. So basically gas on the plug made no diff. I guess that makes it certain it is lack of battery power?

koba

29th January 2009, 21:07

timg

29th January 2009, 21:10

Dipped the plug in gas and it tuned over a little better Ummm, wouldn't that suggest that fuel may not have been present before? Pushing it faster or changing what you are doing is not a good idea - don't change multiple variables when you are trying to solve a problem cos you don't know which variable you changed provided the different result, in this case adding the fuel or pushing faster. Sounds like you have a fueling problem perhaps? Try again pushing as before and adding a bit of fuel to the cylinder? Cheers.

wbks

29th January 2009, 21:14

wbks

29th January 2009, 21:17

Ummm, wouldn't that suggest that fuel may not have been present before? Pushing it faster or changing what you are doing is not a good idea - don't change multiple variables when you are trying to solve a problem cos you don't know which variable you changed provided the different result, in this case adding the fuel or pushing faster. Sounds like you have a fueling problem perhaps? Try again pushing as before and adding a bit of fuel to the cylinder? Cheers.Well after a few pushes more I can assume the gas on the plug had gone and while still pushing it fast it made no difference.

koba

29th January 2009, 21:20

The plug has to be grounded to work, right? I can't really tell while running along trying to push the bike but if I leave it overnight it should be pretty fully charged and if it doens't go then that's spark going, must be gas. I think it will be battery though, i haven't really done anything since the battery went flat. Just one more question: Do car 6v chargers charge better/faster then little trickle chargers? The dude that charged it the first time used a car charger for 1 and a half hours and it ran fine, this one has been on for 4-5 hours and not strong enough

The plug does.
I use an aligator clip kinda thing for a one person pushstart check.
If you have a good stand you can put it on that and spin the wheel watching you dont munt you hand.

Maybe aye, I think some of those fancy ones switch off when they think it is full and all that shit, I have found seemingly fucked batteries can sometimes come back from the dead with a good week long blast on an old charger. (making sure it stays topped up of course)

timg

29th January 2009, 21:23

So with the fuel it turned over better, without it it didn't regardles how quick u pushed .....

wbks

29th January 2009, 21:25

I don't think I wrote that clearly enough: Although it originally ran better with gas on the plug, I was pushing harder than usual. Some time after when I can only assume the gas on the plug had evaporated I pushed it at the same pace as with the gas on the plug and it was exactly the same.

koba

29th January 2009, 21:31

Try check the spark then.
If you think the battery is dodgy get a new oneand try that, it pays to have aspare if you run total loss anyway.
I just got a new small 6v battery for the A and it was $24 from repco!
( but they did say it was the last in the country so I may have beat you to it!)

Ixion

29th January 2009, 21:33

The plug has to be grounded to spark, right? I can't really tell while running along trying to push the bike but if I leave it overnight it should be pretty fully charged and if it doesn't go then that's spark going, must be gas. I think it will be battery though, i haven't really done anything since the battery went flat. Just one more question: Do car 6v chargers charge better/faster then little trickle chargers? The dude that charged it the first time used a car charger for 1 and a half hours and it ran fine, this one has been on for 4-5 hours and not strong enough

if it's points ignition andd a battery you don't need to push the bike to check the spark. Just remove plug, rest the plug (cable connected) on an earthy thing. Remove the little cover over the points, and turn the engine until the points are closed. Now flick the points open with a small screwdriver. You should get a nice fat spark at the plug. Nice simple things points ignition. (any ignition switch on while doing this of course)

speedpro

29th January 2009, 22:00

With their weak ignitions from stock the Honda 4-strokes are notoriously cold blooded. Twins seem to suffer particularly from this and may take some time running on 1.5 cylinders before they bark away on both. Sooo . . . . do you still have the choke fitted to the carb and is it the stock carb? I've found a useful little trick is to give it a good slosh of fuel down the carb with the throttle wide open so the engine is well and truly flooded. Then try push starting it with the choke off and the throttle wide open. It won't start initially as it's flooded but as it turns over the excess fuel is purged to the point where it will at least give a good splutter. If it won't splutter of fire up you have some problem other than fuel.

If it's seriously screwed up you can get very impressive flames out the carb, so I'm told.

wbks

29th January 2009, 22:04

koba

30th January 2009, 07:48

Choke is fitted and as far as I'm aware it is stock carb'. Every time I've tried to start it cold without choke it just locks the wheel and doesn't seem to want to move, just skids. I'll try the fuel down the carb and pushstart thing.

That is a good thing!
It is probably a wee bit light to push against the compression of the engine so as you are pushing it in gear with the clutch in get up some speed and as you let the clutch leaver off jump onto the seat of the bike sidesaddle styles to put some weight on it momentarily.
If you time it right there should be enough grip on the back tyre to overcome the initial resistance of compression.
If it doesn't start at this point it should be harder to push and make a different sound. (as the engine is now turning)
If it is skidding with the clutch in try adjusting the clutch or just giving it a wee bump on the seat as yo get it started.

k14

30th January 2009, 08:43

If the rear wheel locks up try a higher gear, you should be using second anyway but if it locks up in second use third. If it still locks up then push faster!!

wbks

30th January 2009, 09:22

Left it on overnight and it's still not doing anything. The problem is that it turns over but just slows down to a stop as it slows down so basically it's dead. Yes I have been bouncing on the seat as I drop the clutch and I've been trying second but it's the same every time. So either this is the SECOND battery I've bought that doesn't work or something else is wrong.

wbks

30th January 2009, 09:41

Did what Ixion said and the spark seemed pretty inconsistant. A few blueish white sparks but didn't exactly span the whole spark point and the rest were orange sparks that were sparking down in between the middle of the plug and the wall if that makes sense. Would that be enough to ignite the gas?

SHELRACING

30th January 2009, 10:20

I don't really get what you mean by the points, Ixion.

You really need to convert to to 12volts. Its not that hard. Change the coil, From another bike. We ran our CB100 single fine on a Car coil. Get a 12 volt battery. A bike battery or cheaper option,Commonly can get a 12v battery from a J.A Russell they are used in house alarm systems and are perfect (charge them with a phone charger)

Check your points gap set to about 16thou. Ixion is right give the points a flick (when closed, ignition on) you should see a small spark across the points

When you have run down the road, is the plug wet? if it's wet you have fuel. if it's not you have a fuel problem. There should be a screw at the bottom of the float bowl. Loosen it if fuel comes out sweet. if not you have a blockage.

If you have fuel, and you have 12volts. and it don't go. you have a timing problem. Valves, check your valve gear allignment, or ignition check your points should be opening near top dead centre on the compression stroke. ie you can feel both the rocker arms just move.

Check all that and it will run. :niceone:

Ixion

30th January 2009, 10:33

wbks

30th January 2009, 10:37

I wanted to run it on 6v because otherwise I have to run around with the battery hanging half out because the bracket only fits a little 6v battery. I probably won't have time to make another one if I put a 12v in by next weekend. If I can find a coil to suit then maybe.

wbks

30th January 2009, 10:38

Replace the spark plugIt's only been in there for 5 mins running since I bought it last week or so

Skunk

30th January 2009, 10:58

A few blueish white sparks but didn't exactly span the whole spark point and the rest were orange sparks that were sparking down in between the middle of the plug and the wall if that makes sense
It shouldn't do that!

TZ350

30th January 2009, 11:01

Kick the bike over and look at the colour of the spark,

phat deep blue = OK, skinny blue/yellow = weak, yellow = piss weak and won't run anything.

A phat blue spark that you can hear crack across the plug gap is what your looking for.

The condensor and or dirty points can also be a problem.

wbks

30th January 2009, 11:27

Getting a new battery now so I hope that fixxes this.
The spark would be skinny blue to yellow/orang. The condensor could be a prob I guess but like I said nothing has been touched since it ran. I have had the condenser and coil off but there's only really one way you can wire it up, so its ME proof.

wbks

30th January 2009, 11:57

FFFFFFaaaaaaa... Turned out it was the new charger causing the problem... I guess I'll turn up to races known to the KB bucket fraternity known as the guy who couldn't charge a battery<_<

k14

30th January 2009, 12:02

FFFFFFaaaaaaa... Turned out it was the new charger causing the problem... I guess I'll turn up to races known to the KB bucket fraternity known as the guy who couldn't charge a battery<_<
Well that will be one of many...have you met ivan by any chance? :scooter:

FROSTY

30th January 2009, 12:13

SOOOO--does the bloody thing go?

Skunk

30th January 2009, 12:26

FFFFFFaaaaaaa... Turned out it was the new charger causing the problem... I guess I'll turn up to races known to the KB bucket fraternity known as the guy who couldn't charge a battery<_<
I know the feeling...

Well that will be one of many...have you met ivan by any chance? :scooter:
And that is just cruel.

wbks

30th January 2009, 12:27

Ivan... No probably not. Well that's to be continiued later today. I can tell it was the charger though because we got the batt tested and it's fine, and I put it on another charger set up and after 30 mins it was noticeably warmer (the battery) than it was this morning after 12 hours on the other charger...

TZ350

30th January 2009, 12:30

wbks

30th January 2009, 12:37

Yea, but I put it out on the net for all to see. Usually it's just a select few mates giving me shit about this kind of stuff hahahaha

bucketracer

30th January 2009, 18:25

Part of the Bucket family now!

Buckets4Me

30th January 2009, 19:03

at least you turned the dam thing on

I test rode a bike the other day and was complaining that it wouldn't start

aparently they have an on off switch as well as a key :rolleyes: and you have to turn both on not just the switch

give me my bucket anyday

Dneifxes Lana

30th January 2009, 19:25

Part of the Bucket family now!

Looks like one of them ther family from up in the hills.

Spose y'all related, like them too are ya?

bucketracer

30th January 2009, 20:15

Looks like one of them ther family from up in the hills.

Spose y'all related, like them too are ya?

Bring you banjo and we knees up to bit good old banjo plucking :banana:

craisin

31st January 2009, 01:06

so whens race day ???

nudemetalz

31st January 2009, 06:49

Our race day is tomorrow in Roys Hill, Hastings !! :scooter: :rockon:

Buckets4Me

31st January 2009, 07:25

sunday the 8th feb
dont brake the bike before then :spanking: :bleh:

wbks

31st January 2009, 09:58

well I can't work out why the spark is so weak. Full battery, new plug, new coil, all wired up fine. What a waste of time

gav

31st January 2009, 15:34

Its unclear from all this if you have actually got it going properly yet? :doh:
You probably had an "automatic" charger as opposed to a manual charger.
The auto is a charge and maintain type and needs a half healthy battery to work ie, it wont charge a dead flat battery. You use them on vehicles that dont get used too often, leave them hooked up and will keep the battery topped up.
A manual charger requires you to disconnect after battery fully charged.

wbks

31st January 2009, 15:54

Well I left it on from about 4 yesterday till this morning and it had bubbles in it and generally looked full of life but put it in the bike this morning and only made the slightest bit of difference but still didn't start once.

gav

31st January 2009, 16:02

Have you still got the kickstart lever? Is the plug looking wet?

wbks

31st January 2009, 16:09

Yer, plug feels wet when I take it out. Wish the kickstart hadn't been pulled out and the whole plugged, it's getting tiring running up and down the driveway to no avail haha

gav

31st January 2009, 16:21

yeah, its why my FXR still has electric start, and kick starter hooked up ....

TZ350

31st January 2009, 17:13

well I can't work out why the spark is so weak. Full battery, new plug, new coil, all wired up fine. What a waste of time

Time to get on the net and learn about the principles behind points/coil ignition systems and then bring some understanding to your problem.

wbks

31st January 2009, 17:33

Just one thing, the spark is happening between the engine it's earthing on and the plug rather than the electrode and the bridge. Is that right?

jonbuoy

31st January 2009, 17:38

Plug should be pretty wet with all the turning over and bump starting your doing? You would need to keep cleaning it anyway - wet carbon deposits will suck your spark away. A weak spark when your testing it out of the engine might be from a poor ground connection - hard to kick and hold the plug to ground on at the same time. Sure its not blocked carb jet? If you can see some sparking and you have fuel I would have thought the engine would cough more than it is. If the timing was wildly out you would get the occaisonal backfire.

wbks

31st January 2009, 17:46

Well it's hard to explain without a video because it's like it's firing only in just sort of stops as the bike slows down. Full throttle gets slightly better results but still never really takes off. When I had it running, it was constantly the same as it is now, untill about 1.5 a second into the engine turning over as I drop the clutch it would just take off. So It's probably spark but it's all wired well, full battery, coil fine, points clean, carb clean.

Buckets4Me

31st January 2009, 21:35

I think you may need to go back to 12v coil and battery

as it ran ok till it meltid the battery didn't it

make sure you come along on sunday someone may be able to give you some more advice on how to get it going right

wbks

31st January 2009, 21:47

Nah it ran fine when I put a 6v coil in it with the battery which is why I'm amazed it won't go. If I can find a 12 coil soon I might try it. Can you screw the condenser by putting a 12v in it or are all condensers universal? That might be it. I'm selling my road bike now though so I might just buy this other bucket I've got my eye on untill I fix this one and then sell one of the two. Like I said come this tuesday I won't have a lot of time or money so I just want something that will go as soon as I get it. Might sell the one I'm looking at buying when I get the cb going though. I'm probably going to have to find someone with the know how to try fix it. Can't really see what anyone else is going to say though, same as everyone here and everyone that's had a look at it at my place: Getting gas?-yes-Getting spark?-weak, coils fine, making a circuit, battery's fine, wired up fine, points fine-*generally say learn how it works or poke stick because its a 2 valve single cylinder four stroke*

Ivan

1st February 2009, 20:06

talking to a mechanic I know who built his own bike so knows quite a bit if running a total loss ignition a 6v coil on 12v circuit is fine becuase at start you will have a mega spark but as you ride you aredraining battery power and you will still have a good spark right down till the battery has 6v's left in it.

Could be an idea if you decide to go total loss

wbks

1st February 2009, 20:17

It's already on total loss and last time I ran a 12v battery on a 6v coil it started spewing coil coolant all over my engine and stopped working all in the course of 10 mins... I think he may have misunderstood your question or something...

Ixion

1st February 2009, 20:23

If it's firing when you push it, but won't pick up, that would indicate to me carb, not spark.

I know you haven't altered the carb, but you did mention that even before it did not burst into life immediately. So maybe the exra time has caused more gunge or whatever in the carb.

Unually, with spark , once it fires it will keep firing. Maybe missing a bit , but it's unusual for ignitin to fire then die immediately. Afterall, if the spark is enough to fire it at pushing speeds, why won't it be enough to fire it at running speeds.

You also mention that full throttle helps - that's not right, needing full throttle . To me that says over rich. I'd chekc the carb. And spor tit a new sparkplug.

wbks

1st February 2009, 20:35

Like I said it's got a new plug in it. When you say clean carb, do you mean clean the float bowl and what? Untill I messed with the idle screw it was fine but I can't tell the right setting unless it's going. Could that be it? I'll clean the carb but do you think the idle screw could have caused it? It's kind of hard to check if it works every 1/4 turn when I have to push it about 3 times just to make sure it's not the way I'm pushing it that's making the difference. I've tryed very roughly turning the screw a couple turns a time and no difference?

koba

1st February 2009, 20:45

Unscrew all the jets and make sure they are have nice clean holes.
Pilot jets are usually the ones that block and blocked pilot jets cause poor running and very hard starting...

wbks

1st February 2009, 20:47

Is it possible to mess anything up when taking it apart and putting it back together? Settings? 'Cause I don't want to mess it up even more haha. Never had a carb apart.

Ixion

1st February 2009, 20:48

Ixion

1st February 2009, 20:51

Is it possible to mess anything up when taking it apart and putting it back together? Settings? 'Cause I don't want to mess it up even more haha. Never had a carb apart.

Yep. Sure is, it's ALWAYS possible to mess things up.

Where are you, if you're local I could drop by after werk one night and have a look. I ain't pushing it though, I'm just a poor weak feeble old man.

wbks

1st February 2009, 21:03

Idle screw, wind it full in then two and a quarter turns back, won't be far wrong.

Check the needle is securley clipped in place (and that it HAS a needle)

EDIT: Idle screw, do you mean the little wee screw you need a fine screwdriver to adjust , or the big screw you can turn with your fingers? The latter, won't have any effect, just the bike will idle too fast, or you'll have to keep blipping the throttle. Other one, can make starting hard .
I'm probably not local to you, but I'm willing to drive somewhere around the Waikato if you think you can determine whats wrong with it and won't charge me labor. The screw on the right is the one I have been messing with

Skunk

2nd February 2009, 21:10

If you're local I could drop by after werk one night and have a look.

I'm probably not local to you, but I'm willing to drive somewhere around the Waikato
:lol: Either of you have your location listed...

skidMark

2nd February 2009, 21:16

Don't have an ignition and key for a cb125 you are willing to part with by chance?

Ixion

2nd February 2009, 21:36

..The screw on the right is the one I have been messing with

That's the throttle stop. Just controls what speed the engine idles at.

I think the pilot bleed screw is the recessed one at far left (the pic's not very good). That's an important one. If you have no idea of setting, try winding it right in, and two turns back. That would be close enough to run.

wbks

3rd February 2009, 06:40

Don't have an ignition and key for a cb125 you are willing to part with by chance?Sorry, it didn't have any ignition on it when I got it. Ask Buckets4me - If you're lucky he might still have the original off the bike.

:lol: Either of you have your location listed...lol Hauraki Plains

That's the throttle stop. Just controls what speed the engine idles at.

I think the pilot bleed screw is the recessed one at far left (the pic's not very good). That's an important one. If you have no idea of setting, try winding it right in, and two turns back. That would be close enough to run.I'll count how many screws to the stop it takes from the current position to be sure.

wbks

3rd February 2009, 16:18

Hey Ixion.
The bowl does look like it has soot on it but it's not going to come off for a steel wire scotchbrite so it shouldn't be a factor in gas. Should there be more parts strewn all over the place or is that all there is to it? Just squirted carb-clean down the part that recieves the gas, and pretty much every where else and and sprayed it out with the air compressor. It did seem to slightly turn white when dry on some of the carb but for the most part it's a bit cleaner. Am I doing it right?

Ixion

3rd February 2009, 16:25

Problem isn't the gunk in the float bowl, it's that if there is gunk there there will also be gunk in the internal passages., Where it a problem. LOTS of cleaning required. Not just the bowl, the little wee holes in the body.

wbks

3rd February 2009, 16:38

Yea I'm going to get to that but are the parts on show there the only ones I need to remove? Otherwise I'm just going to use a cotton bud dipped in carb clean where possible and just spray the rest with carb clean through all the holes and hit it with the compressor?

Ixion

3rd February 2009, 16:50

I'm looking for the main jet? Should be a little round screw about 6mm long and 4mm diameter or so. May be there, I can't spot it. Anyone, familiar with Keihins (IS it a Keihin? looks like it)

SL125 carb should look like attachment Main jet is #16

wbks

3rd February 2009, 17:41

Well looking at it it looks like the float valve, throttle valve/jet/whatever, and slow valve is there but no little "main jet"? Unless, and sorry if this is a little stupid, but it looks like the Main jet goes on top of the throttle valve as pictured?

Ixion

3rd February 2009, 18:20

Yep. that'll be it, still screwed in. All good. Just clean clean clean and then start all over again and clean some more. Lots more actually.

wbks

3rd February 2009, 19:22

Took the mainvalve off and every bloody gap is clean as a whistle, air blows through it fine, and there is no gunk I can see but the bike still won't go. I don't really see what spraying more glorified paint thinner into it and hitting it with more compressed air is going to do...

koba

3rd February 2009, 19:35

wbks

3rd February 2009, 19:42

koba

3rd February 2009, 19:59

I think I've been "ticking it off the list" for two days while i've had it apart drenched in caberator cleaner. Can't really see what else to do to it? No visible dirt, no blockages, had it all apart, all put back together properly and tried the carb setting a turn differently about 5 times going a turn back from the stop every time

Float level is another thing to check at this point.
You will need to find out what it should be for your bike/carb.
It prob won't help it start but it is somthing worth checking while you have it apart.

koba

3rd February 2009, 20:09

Oh, to skip back a bit too...
To check condenser but a 6V battery across it for a few seconds, then pull it of, then touch the wire to the body and you should get a small spark.
Look closely.
If it is stuffed a condenser is a condenser so try find one that will fit in the gap but I think it can be installed anywhere between the points and coil.

wbks

3rd February 2009, 20:15

It's getting a massive loud spark that will jump from the plug to the head almost 1cm away from it so the spark is fine.

wbks

3rd February 2009, 20:18

And before I say anything else: If I sound a little negative and pessimistic, it doesn't mean I don't appreciate the bits of help some of you are giving me so keep it coming

Ixion

3rd February 2009, 20:45

OK. Time to stand back a bit.

Three things required for an IC engine

Spark, at the right time
Fuel, in the right ratio
Compression

Given those three, and engine MUST fire. (assuming no massive mechanical dereangment)

So, you are lacking one of those. And you've gone through the book, so whatever is missing, it's going to be something you'll say "Nah, can't be that, cos... ".

Spark, per se, is sounding less and less likely.

Fuel, if the carb is clean , it can't be that much out, it should fire at least. maybe run rough, misfire, choke, blow smoke, but it should run. These are not fussy engines. Assuming there is not a honking big air leak where the carb goes onto the motor?

So, that leaves either compression, or timing. Are you sure you have compression ? Really sure? . Checking the timing isn't too hard, but it's one of those things that's real hard to describe. Is there someone could give you a pointer. Some of us will be fluffing around down southish at the weekend .

One last thought. You've checked the spark when the bike is stationary. But have you checked it when you are pushing it ? I've known stranger things. Secure the plug to an earthy point (bit of sellotape works). Push the bike along in gear (easy this time, with the plug out), see it it is sparking away.

Remember, when all else is eliminated, then whatever remains, however improbable may be the truth.

(Oh, I assume you have drained all the petrol out and replaced it with new stuff - always one of the first things to do. )

wbks

3rd February 2009, 21:29

I mite take it down to the buckets at mt wellington on sat or sun if anyone thinks they can help out. The tank and cap is absolutely f'd at the moment and puts a cup of gas on the tank and down to the pipe every 5-6 pushes unless you stuff a rag across the tank and put the cap down so I don't think anyone but me will go near it haha.

Compression seems pretty stong but I haven't done a proper test or anything.
I could try the spark while moving tomorrow.

Ixion

3rd February 2009, 21:37

Check the points gap and that they a re well screwed down.

Unfortunately they chose a bad day for the buckets, because it is Motu-pointing weekend, so all men of light and leading will be at Puke.

But I live just down the road, so I may pop in . Flick me a PM if you do go.

gav

3rd February 2009, 21:52

Its a CB125 single isnt it? Have you taken the tappet covers off? I had one that had the little valve adjuster back itself off and fall out :whistle:.
Have you got a workshop manual for it? Should be able to download one off the net somewhere.

wbks

3rd February 2009, 22:04

Haven't touched the engine apart from to change the oil. I've litterally only had it going for 30 mins max all together. Yea Ixion I'll PM you if I go down that way. I'm close enough to buying that cb twin on trademe and then just take my time fixing this one and sell one or the other afterwards but it closes tomorrow night so it might be a waste of time to go buying it if I can get this one running the weekend after that but no doubt by the weekend if I don't buy it, my cb will refuse to start for the next couple meetings and by then a really cheap, fast, already running bike will be gone...

xwhatsit

3rd February 2009, 22:22

Well if you can't get it going I'll buy it off you for a couple of hundred :)

koba

3rd February 2009, 22:23

We had a CB100 and TI?125 (similar engines anyway) apart a while ago and the 100 had all sorts of nasty cam cahin problems going on, the top sprocket was poked. The cam chain adjuster was poked on both engines and looked like a crap setup, that may be worth checking. all good reasons to sort a manual.
These are simple engines, It will be fixable.

all4A50s

7th February 2009, 09:01

I hear tha the position of your tongue is critical to starting an old bucket. On the lighter side have you thought of changing the fuel and spark plug. For the the $10-15 spent has saved me a whole lot a puffin and sanity 9or should that be insanity).

koba

7th February 2009, 22:00

Is it going yet?

xwhatsit

7th February 2009, 22:11

I've still got a handful of notes I could buy it off you for!

koba

7th February 2009, 22:18

I've still got a handful of notes I could buy it off you for!

Wow thats two dickhead posts of yours I've read in a row!
Well done!
:zzzz:

xwhatsit

8th February 2009, 00:44

Wow thats two dickhead posts of yours I've read in a row!
Well done!
:zzzz:
It's not a dickhead post, it's a serious post. If it's too much trouble for him, and he's lining up another (reliable) bike to buy as mentioned earlier, then perhaps he'd be better with some money in his pocket and more room in the garage. I'm fairly confident I'm stubborn enough to make it go, too.

Obviously the man's got a slightly different figure in his head, but with complete sincerity, feel free to PM me if you want to unload it.

Sully60

8th February 2009, 00:49

It's not a dickhead post, it's a serious post. If it's too much trouble for him, and he's lining up another (reliable) bike to buy as mentioned earlier, then perhaps he'd be better with some money in his pocket and more room in the garage. I'm fairly confident I'm stubborn enough to make it go, too.

Obviously the man's got a slightly different figure in his head, but with complete sincerity, feel free to PM me if you want to unload it.

This machine should be sold to you on the condition that it is raced as a bucket.
Is that your intention?:sherlock:

xwhatsit

8th February 2009, 00:52

This machine should be sold to you on the condition that it is raced as a bucket.
Is that your intention?:sherlock:
Certainly. That's why it caught my eye, it's probably cheaper to buy something outright than retrofit a bucket-sized engine into my spare 250RS frame.

wbks

8th February 2009, 16:29

I was never going to sell it, I was just getting a little shitty with it not going.

Imagine an extatic 16y/o dude leaping out of his bed to the driveway looking over his bike purring away with a menacing look on his face: "IT'S ALIIIIIVE!!!!"
Dropped it off to a mechanic down the road who we figured could do things for mates rates. Heres the story - The original reason it stopped was logically the white powder I cleaned out of the carb originally. It has to be, I didn't change anything else. But then the second reason after that was that while re assembling the carb, I put the float needle in the same way my mate had put it back in when he took it apart for a quick look. Obviously a mistake. It was in upside down causing it to flood. Starts pretty much instantly now, and cleaning the carb seems to have it running a lot better now. The guy said it has shitloads of compression. I'll use the time I have untill next race to get it all nylonned and maybe re-paint it for fun.

Ixion

8th February 2009, 17:14

Ah. Knew it had to be something simple. Well done

wbks

8th February 2009, 17:16

Yes well it could only be something so simple. I'll know what to check next time. I may give it a flashy paint job. Were you racing at the classics or just watching today?

Ixion

8th February 2009, 17:24

Just watching. I do not race, with being slower than your Nanna's Nanna and all.

Shows the difficulties of internet fault finding. No one would ever post "Oh, I bet your mate has put the float needle back in upside down".

Trudes

8th February 2009, 17:28

Wouldn't be the first person to do it.... won't be the last. A very easy mistake to make!:msn-wink:

R6_kid

8th February 2009, 17:45

Did you make it to the track in the end?

wbks

8th February 2009, 17:52

Nah by the time i had it on the trailer today it was 1 so by the time I get there-2:30 and then I would have had to pay for gas, memberships etc and was running a little low. Sounds like it didn't go too well for you?

R6_kid

8th February 2009, 17:55

Lol, how'd you know?

I had to low sides yesterday and didnt feel very comfortable on the bike for some reason. That all changed today, and with a bit more power i would have had more consistent results. Unfortunately when we ran anti-clockwise I got right up to pace and found the gearing on th RX was out which resulted on me abusing the bike a bit much and the innevitable happened.

Fingers crossed my GSXR sells and i'll be running a freshly rebuilt motor and sticky new tyres next month.

Buckets4Me

8th February 2009, 18:00

what bike did you have

do you have pumba's old rx125 ????

:sunny: what a HOT Day it was :sick:

I'm still recovering from heat stroke
and whose idear was it to run around in undies
boy do we need to get some fresh idears out there

wbks

8th February 2009, 18:04

Lol, how'd you know?
I sleep in your bed and wear your clothes when you're not home...

I saw you mention blowing up an RX in carvers thread, didn't know about the lowsides. Sounds like you were hard into getting race ready for my arrival.....

piston broke

8th February 2009, 19:22

hey wb,good to hear you have your bike sorted.
now can someone help me?
i have power to the plug cap but nothing at the plug.
a 100

koba

8th February 2009, 19:35

hey wb,good to hear you have your bike sorted.
now can someone help me?
i have power to the plug cap but nothing at the plug.
a 100

Logic says try new plug and/or cap...

piston broke

8th February 2009, 19:43

logic is done and done:done::argh::weep:

R6_kid

8th February 2009, 20:52

hey wb,good to hear you have your bike sorted.
now can someone help me?
i have power to the plug cap but nothing at the plug.
a 100

Like koba said, try either or, i'd say go for both!

what bike did you have

do you have pumba's old rx125 ????

yeh that was me. Fucking hot day, especially in between the first and second race going in and out of the pits all those times!!! I felt quite sick in the afternoon after racing, had to poor a bottle of cold water over my head and sit in the shade for 10mins so I could stand up properly.

wbks

8th February 2009, 20:59

Htfu...

...........

Skunk

8th February 2009, 21:19

You guys would have been useless at the Hawkes Bay meeting last weekend. Official temp 37° but the vineyard next door recorded 41° or 47° (I forget).

HTFU.

Like I didn't...

wbks

8th February 2009, 21:24

Seriously though, I was sick at auckland in my leathers before it was getting 40C regularly... Screw any hotter than that

Ixion

8th February 2009, 21:27

It was so hot today that I had to adjust my idle settings. I was glad that my engine does not have any oil to have to worry about the temperature of.

wbks

8th February 2009, 21:49

Ixion

8th February 2009, 21:53

Not in a racing context. race bikes usually have high idle speeds because of cam and exhaust effects which mean they don't run smoothly at low speeds. Or carburettors like the Amal GP. Which had NO pilot circuit at all !

But temperature will affect carb settings all the way up the scale. Usually, makes it leaner.

jonbuoy

9th February 2009, 04:45

Do idle settings effect the way the bike runs? It was brought up in another thread ages ago about equilizing revs and had something to do with that and I noticed most race bikes have very high idle speeds so I was wondering if that's something to do or have it idling low or what?

A slight difference in idle speeds on multi cylinder engines makes a big difference in vibes and smoothness all the way through the rev range. Idle mix not so much once off idle - will have some effect but if you are running lean/rich at WOT it won't make a gnats difference. Maybe racebikes high idle is something to do with fierce cam overlap or a lack of idle jets in older bikes??

piston broke

9th February 2009, 09:58

to continue with my a 100 problem.
i seem to have plenty of power at the ht lead,or at least i have had a good shock off it.
i have tried 2 different plug caps,if i put a wire into the cap i get a light spark when earthed to the engine.but no spark at all from a plug,tried 4 of them,one being new.

Pumba

9th February 2009, 11:05

Ixion

9th February 2009, 11:16

piston broke

9th February 2009, 12:12

A light spark might not jump a plug gap especially if the plug is a resistor type.

Try removing the plug cap , bare the wire a little (hopefully you have a little to spare) and twist it directly to the plug. No spark, either dud plug, or weak magneto.

yep i tried the plug's direct to the ht lead,no spark,but i made the mistake of touching the top of the plug,received a wicked shock up one arm and down the other that was touching the kickstart.

Sketchy_Racer

9th February 2009, 18:15

...snip.... Maybe racebikes high idle is something to do with fierce cam overlap or a lack of idle jets in older bikes??

With older bikes (as in bikes before the time of slipper clutches) I think the biggest reason they wind the idle up is to help stop compression locking coming down the gearbox. That is the reason I run the idle high on my GSXR600

wbks

9th February 2009, 18:19

Thought it might be something like that. Will be something for me to try if my cb starts sliding the back in the wet while downshifting.

koba

10th February 2009, 17:32

yep i tried the plug's direct to the ht lead,no spark,but i made the mistake of touching the top of the plug,received a wicked shock up one arm and down the other that was touching the kickstart.

Yeah, Start a new thread.

piston broke

10th February 2009, 20:11

its all sorted folks.:woohoo:
thanks.
i managed to fit a bit of wet and dry paper into the points, i can't get the flywheel off as it's threaded.i got the paper in there through a little gap,a little sand and she fired first kick.:shutup:
lol, i gotta remember how to kick over a bike again,just escaped a really wild kick back.:argh:
so i'll be at mt welli so you can all give me the learn next month.:scooter:
thanks again. :rockon:

wbks

10th February 2009, 20:14

Is it going to be your first time as well?

... That off topic but I think you know what I mean lmao

piston broke

10th February 2009, 20:23

yep.

will see you there then eh.

now we both have our bikes sorted.

so

how do i sort out a race number?

wbks

10th February 2009, 20:35

Not sure, but It'll either be given to you when you register or just use what ever someone isn't running is my guess but I don't know either. My bikes not quite sorted yet, i still want to get an air filter for it and get it nyloned up. And the carb cap is held on by a ziptie because the thread is gone on the lid but that should pass.

Pumba

10th February 2009, 20:43

how do i sort out a race number?

Good to hear it is going, as for a race number check out the AMCC website, have a look at the results page and choose a number that aint being used.

piston broke

10th February 2009, 20:56

after all the time i spent on the minor problem,
666 would be my pick but i'm too superstitious.
so i guess the a100 is f4 and i will be 'b'grade?

Pumba

10th February 2009, 21:02

after all the time i spent on the minor problem,
666 would be my pick but i'm too superstitious.
so i guess the a100 is f4 and i will be 'b'grade?

Pretty sure it will be F4 (im not the best with older two bangers) and yea you can race B grade untill you consistantly brake 34sec (I think) a lap. You are more than welcome to race A grade as well as B

piston broke

10th February 2009, 21:11

cool.twice the track time.

can barely wait.

5 weeks is too long

wbks

10th February 2009, 21:14

666 would be alright for a laugh but judging from hearing what others say about people that have done any sort of sport with the number, people seem to take it far too seriously and either think you're a metalhead wanabe or the religious switch off their sense of humour.

People are funny like that. When I was 13 and didn't know what some cretins used the number 88 for I ran #88 on my 125 mx bike because I liked the look of it, and got randoms calling me a red neck/neo nazi. Didn't help that I had a No 1 cut, but still...