Ordinary 91 or Super 96 Unleaded??

[Ninja51]

People have told me that low octane unleaded fuel is crap here in NZ.
Is that necessarily true?
I'm never sure which to use so I switch from one to the other!!
Any advice?

[vifferman]

Oh shit - we've had this thread several times before. Do a search and dredge up the threads - I can't be bothered.

Look, if your bike will run OK on 91, then use that, as it will give the most power. If not, run it on either BP Ultimate or Gull 96 (or whatever it is).
The other 95/96 that Shell, BP, Caltex and Mobil sell is just 91 with extra toluene and xylene in it to boost the octane rating. And toluene and xylene is the same thing as paint-brush cleaner, and burns sooty, fouls up plugs, and gives less power (because of the higher octane). Don't use it.

[ManDownUnder]

Oh shit - we've had this thread several times before. Do a search and dredge up the threads - I can't be bothered.

Look, if your bike will run OK on 91, then use that, as it will give the most power. If not, run it on either BP Ultimate or Gull 96 (or whatever it is).
The other 95/96 that Shell, BP, Caltex and BP sell is just 91 with extra toluene and xylene in it to boost the octane rating. And toluene and xylene is the same thing as paint-brush cleaner, and burns sooty, fouls up plugs, and gives less power (because of the higher octane). Don't use it.

....Yup....

[ManDownUnder]

People have told me that low octane unleaded fuel is crap here in NZ.
Is that necessarily true?
I'm never sure which to use so I switch from one to the other!!
Any advice?

91 here is fine. The whole "crap" comment may have come about from the list of additives that was being put into it - something that hit the press years ago.

No big deal now, and as was mentioned, use the lowest octance your engine will drink.More grunt in engine AND more money in bank...

go figure!
MDU

[Ninja51]

[QUOTE=vifferman]Oh shit - we've had this thread several times before. Do a search and dredge up the threads - I can't be bothered.

Thanks for the advice, but do you often lose your patience with relative newcomers who also "cant be bothered" or dont even think (like me! lol)
to trawl the past threads on here. Sorry to have wasted your time but it begs the question "why did you reply to my question in the first instance?"

[bugjuice]

I run 96 all the time. Try Avgas.. that'll work ;)

[Wolf]

I run 96 all the time. Try Avgas.. that'll work ;)

Good quality Corn Liquor will also do at a pinch

[Marmoot]

is there any problem with mixing unleaded 91 and a bit of water to save some money?
Ever since I did that my bike starts spluttering every now and then.
The $$$ saving is quite significant, though, as I only have to fill up 75% of my tank and top up the rest with tap water.

The power is a bit down compared with before, though. Am I doing anything wrong?

[vifferman]

[QUOTE=vifferman]Oh shit - we've had this thread several times before. Do a search and dredge up the threads - I can't be bothered.

Thanks for the advice, but do you often lose your patience with relative newcomers who also "cant be bothered" or dont even think (like me! lol)
to trawl the past threads on here. Sorry to have wasted your time but it begs the question "why did you reply to my question in the first instance?"
Sorry for being a bit terse and grumpy - it's because I'm grumpy.
Did it help, or do you need more info?
Basically, you should run your bike on the lowest octane that is suitable for your bike, as that will give it the most power and cost the least. However, because the 95/96 sold by the Gang of Four is crap, Don't use it.
Generally, as bikes don't usually have knock sensors, they can't benefit from running higher octane gas (i.e., don't adjust the ignition timing to suit), so there's no point. However, if your bike specifies an RON of higher than 91, then running 91 may cause it to 'pink', which is bad for the engine (wrecks the little end bearing, I think), so use either Gull's higher octane fuel, or BP 98 which is imported refined, rather than diluted with crap to boost the octane rating.
Converse to popular opinion, higher octane doesn't mean higher power. Higher octane is used to reduce pre-ignition or knocking in high-compression engines.

Incidentally - does anyone here know what sort of fuel the 2001 VFR800 is supposed to use? I've been having some problems with it when it's very hot - if I stop at an intersection, then take off a moment later, it sounds as though I'm in the wrong gear (cue noises of knocking/pinking). I was going to try some BP Ultimate, but I forgot the BP near home doesn't have it any more.

[vifferman]

is there any problem with mixing unleaded 91 and a bit of water to save some money?
Ever since I did that my bike starts spluttering every now and then.
The $$$ saving is quite significant, though, as I only have to fill up 75% of my tank and top up the rest with tap water.

The power is a bit down compared with before, though. Am I doing anything wrong?
Yes, you should use only distilled water, The silica content of tap water is too high.

[ManDownUnder]

Yes, you should use only distilled water, The silica content of tap water is too high.

I thought it was distilled water that would be the problem. Running water is what's needed - it keeps the motor running.

Destilled water would make it stop surely?!?

[Paul in NZ]

Incidentally - does anyone here know what sort of fuel the 2001 VFR800 is supposed to use? I've been having some problems with it when it's very hot - if I stop at an intersection, then take off a moment later, it sounds as though I'm in the wrong gear (cue noises of knocking/pinking). I was going to try some BP Ultimate, but I forgot the BP near home doesn't have it any more.

Just a thought. Could be evaporation problems? Ie getting too hot under the tank and it's vaporising the fuel before it gets to the pump or injectors.

Because we get any old bike left over from any old market you could have one built for Alaskan winters or summat. There will be a site for desperate VFR owners such as yourself to investigate these issues in depth methinks? What I mean is, if one does it, I bet a lot of others do and since the VFR attracts a loyal following someone will have the answer.

Paul N

Me? I run mine on 98 when I can get it and 96 when I can't, event then it pinks on a hot day when I swing open dem ole pumpers and try to drown the fires.

[vifferman]

I thought it was distilled water that would be the problem. Running water is what's needed - it keeps the motor running.

Destilled water would make it stop surely?!?
No, that's bestilled water.
If you want to use running water for more power, you can use tap water, but only if your local tap water is low silica. You'll need a pump, or header tank, or camelbak, or a very long hose in order to keep the water running.

[vifferman]

Just a thought. Could be evaporation problems? Ie getting too hot under the tank and it's vaporising the fuel before it gets to the pump or injectors.
Possibly, but I think it's more likely to be the handy-dandy, emissions-control closed-loop circuit on the EFI, which is running it too lean when I'm tootling along.

Because we get any old bike left over from any old market you could have one built for Alaskan winters or summat.
It's actually an import from the harsh wilds of the United Kingdom.

There will be a site for desperate VFR owners such as yourself to investigate these issues in depth methinks? What I mean is, if one does it, I bet a lot of others do and since the VFR attracts a loyal following someone will have the answer.
Yeah, there are several, and I belong to three, but apart from the Aussies, they're all in the DepthsOfAlaskan-likeWinter and more interested in discussing the merits of Lemon Pledge and brands of snowblowers than what causes horrible pinking noises. Still, might be worth a try...

[Ninja51]

Sorry for being a bit terse and grumpy - it's because I'm grumpy.
Did it help, or do you need more info?


Haha... No worries V, we all have our moments I'm sure. I thought only my Mrs had "grumpyweeks" but yep, it helped. Cheers.

[ALTRON]

I always run my NC30 on 96 but it doesn't mind running on 91 though :)

[Marmoot]

Incidentally - does anyone here know what sort of fuel the 2001 VFR800 is supposed to use? I've been having some problems with it when it's very hot - if I stop at an intersection, then take off a moment later, it sounds as though I'm in the wrong gear (cue noises of knocking/pinking). I was going to try some BP Ultimate, but I forgot the BP near home doesn't have it any more.

(in my serious mode)
It is the fuel not having enough octane to slow down the burning process, hence detonation (knock and ping) occurs because the combustion chamber is too hot and the fuel mixture ignites before the spark occurs (before the ignition should take place).
If you increase the octane (i.e. use 96 instead of 91) then the combustion will be retarded and detonation will stop occuring.
When it cools down (getting back in the winter where cool air helps cool the engine down), go switch back to 91.

[vifferman]

If you increase the octane (i.e. use 96 instead of 91) then the combustion will be retarded and detonation will stop occuring.
Or add water, right?

Hmmmm.... wonder if I could add an extra hose and a water pump to the injectors .... :confused:

[Marmoot]

Or add water, right?

Ahh, wise words. I've never thought of that. GENIUS!
High octane means slower burning petrol (retarded ignition). Water will slow down combustion. That means water will increase octane rating.
It's simply logic, isn't it?
So, I believe it is safe to say that Avgas is actually petrol mixed with water.

Ok....on to my application for a job in Government statistics with my great logic skill.

[Krusti]

But BP and Gull dont have Flybuys:angry2:

[bugjuice]

what about RedBull? They claim it'll make you fly.. Just a thought..

[Krusti]

[QUOTE=Marmoot]Ahh, wise words. I've never thought of that. GENIUS!
High octane means slower burning petrol (retarded ignition). Water will slow down combustion. That means water will increase octane rating.
It's simply logic, isn't it?
So, I believe it is safe to say that Avgas is actually petrol mixed with water.

QUOTE]

If ya leave the Avgas in the drum long enough it does end up mixed with water!

[Teflon]

As somone said before higher the octane the slower it burns.

If you use low octane fuel in a high compression engine, the fuel ignites under compression and not from the spark, i'm sure this is what they refer to as 'pinking'.

I use 91 octane in my VTR because of the low compression and runs great, somthing like a TL would benefit from high octane fuel.